OCLogs: 2021-06-14.log

Stuff goes here

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L25[03:59:36] <Althego> haha short stream was 9.5 hours. zombie is coming

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L30[04:24:00] <raptop> How long until kiara does a collab with Okayu and/or Korone?

L31[04:40:23] <Althego> who can stream longer duel

L32[04:43:12] <raptop> heh

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L35[05:22:36] <Althego> pi reading. let's go

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L37[05:53:52] <Souptime> soub

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L39[05:57:01] <Althego> i still cant communicate in soub

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L61[09:52:28] <NGC3982> hi guys

L62[09:53:37] * raptop x_x

L63[09:56:01] <darsie> hi guy

L64[09:56:16] <darsie> NGC3982: How far away are you?

L65[09:56:34] <NGC3982> swede n

L66[09:56:37] <NGC3982> also sweden.

L67[09:56:58] <darsie> I thought you'd be at least 100 ly away ;).

L68[09:56:59] <Mat2ch> I think that was a joke about your nickname :D

L69[09:57:05] <NGC3982> oh, lol

L70[09:57:11] <NGC3982> that flew right over my head

L71[09:57:20] <Althego> hehe

L72[09:57:22] <Mat2ch> 68 mio ly says Wikipedia

L73[09:57:22] <NGC3982> i think im about 68MLy from tellus

L74[09:57:24] * raptop is currently in the impact bay area

L75[09:57:28] <darsie> ic :)

L76[09:57:39] <darsie> Where/what is tellus?

L77[09:57:49] <Althego> Distance 68.1 ± 2.5 Mly (20.89 ± 0.77 Mpc)[2]

L78[09:57:49] <NGC3982> a planet in some galaxy 68Mly away

L79[09:58:05] <Althego> that is far

L80[09:58:34] <NGC3982> i think i had a standard candle in my belly a few years ago

L81[09:59:43] <raptop> wikiality mentions SN1998aq as a Type Ia

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L83[10:02:13] <Mat2ch> .oO( child inside of my head asks: Can we go for a visit? Can we? Can we? - I wonder how to explain to him that we don't have ftl drives yet )

L84[10:02:51] <Mat2ch> and even with FTL drives it could take decades to get there.

L85[10:04:21] <raptop> Imagine discovering an FTL drive, but it only gets you to sqrt(2)*c

L86[10:05:35] <NGC3982> shouldnt sqrt(2)*c decrease the travel time significantly?

L87[10:06:07] <raptop> Yes, it'll take just barely under 3 years to get to alpha centauri

L88[10:07:44] <NGC3982> does travel time decrease linear with multiples of c?

L89[10:07:55] <NGC3982> i thought it would be exponential if possible

L90[10:08:00] <NGC3982> at least for the traveler

L91[10:08:37] <raptop> We're in fake physics land, so whatever

L92[10:09:02] <NGC3982> but travel time doesnt decrease linearly from <c to c either, right?

L93[10:09:17] <NGC3982> 0,5c isnt 2*travel time in c to alpha centauri and so on

L94[10:09:25] <darsie> Does time pass at c?

L95[10:09:44] <Truga> depends, are you a photon? :v

L96[10:09:46] <darsie> It does, in a warp bubble

L97[10:10:03] <NGC3982> warp booblets

L98[10:16:53] <Althego> heh google, webrtc and the cursed extensions on rtp and rtcp

L99[10:20:27] <NGC3982> must be nice to be on this network right now

L100[10:20:37] <Althego> and not on leenode :)

L101[10:20:39] <NGC3982> ever since irc turned into game of thrones

L102[10:21:25] * NGC3982 quickly registers #ksp2official

L103[10:21:44] <Truga> lol

L104[10:22:21] <Althego> hehe

L105[10:22:22] <Althego> do it now

L106[10:22:33] <Althego> but actually supposedly this is that channel too

L107[10:22:44] <NGC3982> i hope so

L108[10:22:47] <NGC3982> no need for separation

L109[10:28:27] <Althego> if there wasnt need for separation, the creator wouldnt have given the kerbals the sepratron :)

L110[10:30:17] <NGC3982> hehe

L111[10:32:16] <Mat2ch> I have hopes that this channel will get a bit more active when KSP2 drops

L112[10:32:25] <Mat2ch> but I'm still not sure how good KSP2 will be.

L113[10:32:35] <betelgeuse> i am so thankful this channel is active though

L114[10:32:49] <betelgeuse> makes the game so much less painful because people will help you

L115[10:32:50] <Althego> active with about 6 people

L116[10:33:08] <betelgeuse> 6 very nice and very helpful people

L117[10:33:14] <Mat2ch> If they have somehow increased the part limit to 20k (on a moderate CPU and with decent fps) I will be impressed.

L118[10:33:32] <Mat2ch> betelgeuse: you are too kind

L119[10:33:34] <Mat2ch> :)

L120[10:33:50] <betelgeuse> is there a planned feature list

L121[10:34:15] <Althego> there was for ksp on the wiki

L122[10:34:23] <betelgeuse> if there aint windtunnel in there, i am not buying it

L123[10:34:42] <Althego> yes, there is a wind tunnel in the science complex, and you cant use it

L124[10:35:00] <Mat2ch> we even will get procedural wings!

L125[10:35:12] <betelgeuse> nice

L126[10:35:14] <Mat2ch> and I bet no Linux version.

L127[10:35:20] <Mat2ch> With the comment: Use proton, it works fine

L128[10:35:21] <betelgeuse> i hope not

L129[10:35:26] <Mat2ch> yeah, thanks.

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L131[10:35:46] <betelgeuse> i was really impressed with the linux port of ksp, would be really sad to see it go

L132[10:36:38] <Mat2ch> That port was never really well optimized. :(

L133[10:36:42] <Althego> since it is on unity, probably realtively easy to port

L134[10:36:50] <Mat2ch> They just used Unity and clicked on the "Export for Linux" button.

L135[10:36:53] <Althego> well, optimization is an other task :)

L136[10:37:19] <Mat2ch> And I really really hope that they don't use Unity anymore.

L137[10:37:34] <Mat2ch> C# is crap and Mono slower than Java. And I have Java :P

L138[10:37:48] <Althego> i think ksp2 uses unity too

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L140[10:38:01] <Althego> that is why i didnt get, why they needed to rewrite the game compeltely

L141[10:38:05] <Althego> if they are using the same engine

L142[10:38:17] <Althego> or was this before the big delay?

L143[10:39:12] <Althego> wiki says. windows, playstation and xbox. no linux. but it may be inaccureate, engine is not listed

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L145[10:40:19] <Mat2ch> That was before the rewrite.

L146[10:40:30] <Mat2ch> I guess they started by analyzing what they had

L147[10:41:03] <Mat2ch> then realized that the code is not very well written and flexible and started from scratch (minus the 3d models, which is a huge part)

L148[10:41:21] <Mat2ch> I'd go for a JSON format for the craft files e.g.

L149[10:41:35] <Mat2ch> You don't need to write your own parser for this.

L150[10:41:44] <Mat2ch> It's all there. Just use it.

L151[10:41:59] <Althego> you never need to write you own parser, just choose a format

L152[10:42:14] <Althego> people will wage wars about that too

L153[10:42:23] <Althego> but at least you dont need your broken implementation

L154[10:42:32] <Mat2ch> The craft files are their own format.

L155[10:42:44] <Althego> i know

L156[10:42:50] <Mat2ch> Weird choice btw.

L157[10:43:05] <Mat2ch> But that's only one small portion of the problem, I guess

L158[10:43:43] <Mat2ch> The current parser isn't broken. It seems they did a decent job there. But it takes time to do that which you can spend somewhere else.

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L163[12:05:12] <Mat2ch> what I really wonder about SpaceX's OLIT is why they removed the stairs.

L164[12:05:43] <Mat2ch> They have only a lift now. What if a fire breaks out and the lift is unusable?

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L169[12:16:48] <FLHerne> The section added yesterday has stairs

L170[12:17:06] <FLHerne> So stairlessness is probably a temporary thing for whatever reason

L171[12:17:32] <FLHerne> Anyway, it's a big empty steel structure, I'm not sure it's possible for there to *be* a fire...

L172[12:18:00] <FLHerne> The wooden boards on those scaffolding platforms might be flammable, but there's no way for it to spread

L173[12:54:25] <Deddly> Talking of fire, I was amused to see that the Ice Hotel in the north of Sweden has fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in every corridoor.

L174[12:59:58] <packbart> you wouldn't want to drown in a flooded hotel corridor

L175[13:00:19] <Truga> also ice won't melt quick enough to extinguish a fire before it kills a bunch of people

L176[13:09:25] <Mat2ch> Deddly: the blankets and pillows still can burn

L177[13:20:00] <Mat2ch> https://youtu.be/BCPitw8tdMY?t=101 great render

L178[13:22:42] <Mat2ch> Althego: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyDkJ0-V19I

L179[13:22:50] <Mat2ch> since you like streams :D

L180[13:27:50] <Deddly> Truga, the hotel is literally made of ice and snow, even the structural elements. The only thing flammable is the bedsheets, and even then it won't be possible for a fire to spread

L181[13:28:05] <Deddly> I mean Mat2ch

L182[13:29:02] <Deddly> Of course, it's a simple matter of regulations for public buildings. But I thought it was funny

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L185[13:37:46] <Mat2ch> Deddly: most often not the fire kills you, but the smoke. If the bedsheets and pillows burn then this can become a serious health issue

L186[13:38:09] <Mat2ch> so having a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors is a good thing

L187[13:38:38] <Deddly> This is true.

L188[13:39:03] <Deddly> I think they had fire hoses, too

L189[14:28:09] <Mat2ch> the power grid in southern France doesn't seem to be very stable.

L190[14:28:57] <Althego> solar backup!

L191[14:31:21] <Mat2ch> yeah, that power grid really needs local backups...

L192[14:34:42] <Althego> we really need to get over the problem of core power vs green power. and the only way to do it is with storage

L193[14:35:12] <flayer> i'm exhausted Althego

L194[14:35:22] <flayer> its too hot

L195[14:35:32] <Althego> nowhere near hot here

L196[14:35:45] <Althego> maybe this week we reach 30

L197[14:36:01] <Althego> until then i dont classify this as summer

L198[14:36:06] <flayer> its going to be 30 this thursday

L199[14:44:33] <Deddly> 30 gets a severe weather warning over here

L200[14:44:59] <flayer> you're in sweden

L201[14:45:05] <flayer> anything above freezing is summer

L202[14:45:26] <Deddly> Pretty much

L203[14:45:26] <flayer> "oh we are not living in perpetual darkness, it must summer"

L204[14:45:40] <Althego> hehe

L205[14:47:18] <Deddly> The meteorological definition of summer in Sweden is when you have an average temperature of more than 10 for five days and nights in a row.

L206[14:48:07] <Deddly> But of course we locals know it's summer when the polar bears migrate north to the sea ice.

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L209[15:05:42] <Althego> bird is a bit late

L210[15:07:39] <darsie> Althego is so cryptic.

L211[15:11:15] <Althego> kikkerikii

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L215[16:02:40] <Mat2ch> darsie: it's always the stream. ;)

L216[16:03:01] <darsie> bird?

L217[16:03:05] <darsie> hmm

L218[16:03:10] <darsie> kikkerikii

L219[16:03:23] <Mat2ch> the start of the stream is always this

L220[16:03:42] <Mat2ch> I have never seen it, but I guess it's a rooster.

L221[16:04:04] <Mat2ch> flayer: I'm living in darkness now, because it IS summer.

L222[16:04:10] <Mat2ch> I want to keep the heat out :(

L223[16:05:41] <Althego> hehe

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L225[16:24:56] <raptop> No, it's definitely a phoenix and not a chicken or rooster >_>

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L240[20:53:33] * raptop sees that zombie spent an hour reciting(?) pi, and is confused

L241[20:59:43] ⇨ Joins: Solar_Oracle (webchat@cpe-75-189-17-39.sc.res.rr.com)

L242[20:59:43] <Solar_Oracle> The light of another star returns!

L243[21:00:50] * raptop ducks behind a few meters of regolith

L244[21:01:36] <Solar_Oracle> Regolith will not save you know, all will be incinerated!

L245[21:01:53] * Solar_Oracle rains fire from the Heavens

L246[21:02:46] <Solar_Oracle> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFygZVtYGYM

L247[21:02:51] * raptop is reminded of 40k exterminatus

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L249[21:04:11] <Solar_Oracle> I also have that https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSlt8IF_a8w

L250[21:04:49] <Solar_Oracle> I've yet to Exterminatus anyone in Battlefleet Gothic, though.

L251[21:14:12] * raptop assumes that it's sort of difficult when they can maneuver and fire back

L252[21:15:47] <Solar_Oracle> Well, in the tabletop game, you actually had to get your assigned Exterminatus ship within a certain distance of the target world. Destruction of enemy assets is just a bonus.

L253[21:16:12] <Solar_Oracle> The only time in which you did it in the video game campaign is when you were unable to retake a world.

L254[21:16:32] <raptop> ah

L255[21:17:12] <Solar_Oracle> The tabletop game even had a special, "table" for low orbit operations (such as in assault scenarios where you'd land troops) where the defenders would get cheap and fairly powerful surface-to-orbit weapons.

L256[21:19:50] <Solar_Oracle> IE: A Defense Laser Silo with a strength 3 lance battery (three chances to damage any ship on any D6 roll of 4+ per shot) would have 6+ armor and only cost 15 points.

L257[21:20:41] <Solar_Oracle> By contrast, the absolute cheapest ship in the Imperial Navy, a Cobra-class destroyer, would cost 30 points with only 4+ armor saves.

L258[21:21:10] <Solar_Oracle> And its weaponry? Two prow launched torpedoes and a nearly worthless Strength 1 gun battery.

L259[21:21:23] <raptop> whelp

L260[21:22:13] <Solar_Oracle> Alternatively, a Missile Silo with a Strength 6 torpedo battery (equivalent to three Cobra-class ships emptying their tubes at once) would cost even less at 5 points per silo!

L261[21:23:25] <raptop> That makes it sound like it would be easy to make landings nigh-impossible. Unless you can bombard them from high orbit?

L262[21:23:41] <Solar_Oracle> And at 20 points, you could get an Air Base with 4 squadrons of fighters or bombers for a modest 20 points. Prior to the Battlefleet Gothic: Armada supplement, the absolute cheapest ship in the IN with a fighter complement would have been the 220 point Dictator-class Cruiser.

L263[21:24:49] <Solar_Oracle> Well each of those emplacements only has 1 hitpoint apiece (identical to most escorts), and IN cruisers are pretty tough with 8 hitpoints plus 3 turrets to shoot down any oncoming torpedoes and strikecraft.

L264[21:25:06] <Solar_Oracle> Torpedoes are also not guaranteed to hit even if their target doesn't shoot them down during the Ordinance Phase.

L265[21:25:38] <Solar_Oracle> But the game really justifies why it's not a trivial matter to assault a well defended world

L266[21:26:06] <bees> unrealistic:(

L267[21:26:53] <Solar_Oracle> And the number of points the defender can use on defenses is determined by a combination of dice rolls and the attacker's total score.

L268[21:27:10] <bees> btw, how does futuristic space settings deal with the issue of "any sufficiently maneuvreable ship is a exterminatus-class kinetic missile"?

L269[21:27:53] <Solar_Oracle> Kinetic? Why bother with kinetic when you have Warp Core explosions?

L270[21:28:20] <bees> good enough to kill a planet

L271[21:29:31] <Solar_Oracle> If a ship actually suffers a Warp Core Implosion, ships within a certain radius of the exploding vessel suffer automatic lance attacks equivalent to the ship's starting strength. IE: A normal IN Cruiser with a WPI could cause up to 8 hits, easily crippling other cruisers and almost certainly wiping out any escorts.

L272[21:30:13] <Solar_Oracle> We also don't have much info on the actual speed of ships in Warhammer 40k, and heavily industrialized worlds tend to have planetary shielding.

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L274[21:31:24] <Solar_Oracle> Besides, you sometimes want to capture stuff, the same as in real life. I mean, you can't use a nuclear weapon for EVERYTHING.

L275[21:31:30] <bees> ?

L276[21:32:21] <raptop> no, bad bees! Stop touching the SLBM controls!

L277[21:32:41] <Solar_Oracle> OH GOD NOT THE BEES THEY'RE IN MY CIRCUIRTY! NOT THE BEES! NO NOT THE BEES! ARGHH!

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L279[21:33:30] <raptop> 40k is a setting where monastaries make perfectly reasonable warpships, so things are a bit silly

L280[21:35:09] <Solar_Oracle> What's really funny is that, in the tabletop game, inertia was a major limiting for all but Eldar and Necron ships, and stopping was a big deal that required passing a leadership roll for assuming special orders. In the video game, it's nothing

L281[21:36:05] <raptop> hah

L282[21:36:21] <Solar_Oracle> Which is also kind of a bummer for Eldar ships in the videogame, as they have to be micromanaged into hit-and-run attacks or else they'll stop to fire their prow weapons and fail to increase their holo-emitter strength.

L283[21:37:07] <Solar_Oracle> Literally making them sitting ducks, and even a lowly escort can grievously damage an Eldar cruiser if it can get in on the sweet, sweet ramming speed action

L284[21:39:30] <Solar_Oracle> I wish I had kept my Armada supplement PDF.

L285[21:39:58] <Solar_Oracle> And it wouldn't surprise me if there were rules for BFG + Epic Armageddon in some of the older magazines.

L286[21:40:36] <raptop> ...what does that do? Scale things up so you can take on an entire Tyranid hive fleet?

L287[21:41:22] <Solar_Oracle> Integrate the games together so that you could do things like provide orbital fire support or have transports landed from the BFG table on to a Epic Armageddon game as reinforcements.

L288[21:41:47] <Solar_Oracle> I know some tournaments incorporated the two, but I think the rules were provided by supplementary material that's long since been out of circulation.

L289[21:42:45] <Solar_Oracle> BFG:A had a Armageddon campaign ruleset and map, but I don't think it had rules for combined gameplay.

L290[21:43:35] <Solar_Oracle> Think EvE Online and Dust 514

L291[21:43:41] <raptop> yeah

L292[21:43:54] * raptop assumes that you'd have 10 turns on the ground for every turn in space, or something

L293[21:44:26] <flayer> i found dust 514 confusing

L294[21:44:27] <Solar_Oracle> Probably

L295[21:44:58] <Solar_Oracle> Battlefleet Gothic was a faster paced game in practice, though, especially since you couldn't have as many models.

L296[21:45:49] <Solar_Oracle> And virtually every ship in the game (including Cruisers and even Battleships) could be grouped into squadrons that shared leadership rolls.

L297[21:47:30] <Solar_Oracle> Squadrons also got simplified shooting phases. IE: Instead of processing, for instance, the Strength 1 shots from 4 Cobras separately, the controlling player could treat them as a single Strength 4 shot. Torpedoes could also be grouped into stronger salvos that would simplify Ordinance phase movements and rolls with a significant increase to hit.

L298[21:49:12] <Solar_Oracle> It's sad I'm remembering all the rules so easily long after people stopped playing BFG.

L299[21:57:32] <Solar_Oracle> Alright, so now it's on to something other than nostalgic melancholy.

L300[22:00:10] <Solar_Oracle> After putting it off for Jebediah knows how long, it is finally time . . . Time to establish a social media presence.

L301[22:02:16] <Solar_Oracle> https://twitter.com/oracle_solar/status/1404559762411474945

L302[22:02:35] <Solar_Oracle> 15 years and I can finally Twit.

L303[22:05:22] <raptop> chirp chirp caw!

L304[22:06:38] <Solar_Oracle> I'm afraid if I was a bird it would be less a cutesy, "chirp chirp!" and more of the, "CAW CAW CAW!"

L305[22:07:32] <Solar_Oracle> Like this https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/383/644/6db.png

L306[22:09:08] <raptop> corvids are good

L307[22:09:25] <Solar_Oracle> Holy crap I've only been on Twitter for five minutes and some one is already stalking me!

L308[22:10:09] * raptop >_>;;

L309[22:11:37] <Solar_Oracle> You're just following me because you're hoping I have exoplanets in my habitable zone. Joke's on you, though, I'm a flare star!

L310[22:14:12] <raptop> oh no

L311[22:14:46] <Solar_Oracle> Hehehe, atmospheres go brrrr.

L312[22:15:43] <raptop> also, so much red noise

L313[22:16:23] <Solar_Oracle> I want more papers on desert planets and water worlds.

L314[22:17:47] <raptop> eg: https://arxiv.org/abs/2105.01102 ?

L315[22:19:06] <Solar_Oracle> Mmmm

L316[22:21:42] <Solar_Oracle> I really need to get cracking on the Stellaris AAR.

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L318[22:26:43] * UmbralRaptop hasn't played stellaris, but assumes that as a paradox game it would lend itself to narratives

L319[22:27:59] <Solar_Oracle> I'd do the even more narrative friendly Crusader Kings 2, but I totally suck at that game.

L320[22:28:04] <Solar_Oracle> Which, I suppose, is half the fun.

L321[22:28:23] <Solar_Oracle> "Oh, looks like I got ANOTHER inbred heir to lead my house in to ruin."

L322[22:29:10] <Solar_Oracle> Though, in this instance, I'm using a randomly created empire in a randomly created galaxy, rather than my vast assortment of pre-written empires (which, I am sad to report, have full bios that I and only I have ever read)

L323[22:29:36] <Solar_Oracle> My faction this time is a xenophobic, authoritarian spiritualist oligarchy.

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L325[22:30:57] <flayer> lel

L326[22:34:28] <Solar_Oracle> I, unfortunately, started out with the Efficient Bureaucracy and Mining Guild civics, to soon be replaced by a dictatorship government with Exalted Priesthood and either Police State or Philosopher King.

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L328[22:35:09] <Solar_Oracle> To be represented in the AAR as the Chief Precentor seizing power instead of assuming an end to their term in the first election.

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L330[22:36:38] <Solar_Oracle> We cannot allow the myopic interests of the guilds and their lackies to control the Commonality's destiny.

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L333[22:40:28] * UmbralRaptop pictures an attempt to paint a normal and unassuming election as an epochal struggle

L334[22:42:03] <Solar_Oracle> The oligarchic elections are implied to be less open and more, "The Council of Doom has decided to re-elect Lex Luthor as leader."

L335[22:42:41] <Solar_Oracle> All the more appropriate given my empire is somewhat authoritarian to start out with. I like to think suffrage is restricted to those gold diggers running the mining guilds.

L336[22:43:27] <Solar_Oracle> The peasantry should just be thankful I don't implement chattel slavery and force them to work on the ultra-low habitability snow planet bordering the homeworld.

L337[22:43:48] <Solar_Oracle> And, yes, Stellaris does in fact have slave worlds used for nothing more than making more slaves.

L338[22:46:37] <Solar_Oracle> Although transporting pops isn't as cheap as it used to be, since now you pay precious influence.

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