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L19[02:17:16] <Solar_Oracle> That feeling
when you unlock NTRs and discover that the aerospace tech nodes you
haven't researched have all the fuel-only tanks.
L20[02:24:58] <raptop> hah
L21[02:25:31] <raptop> But, then, what did
you expect from a civilization where car wheels were derived from
turbopump turbines?
L22[02:28:49] <Solar_Oracle> Somewhere in
the VAB, an unpaid intern attempts to solve the issue of
now-useless tankage. "Hey, guys, why don't we just fill the
empty oxidizer tanks with extra fuel?" "Why don't you
just shut up and get us more coffee?"
L23[02:30:48] <raptop> Kerbal coffee is at
least a few percent hydrazine
L24[02:31:41] <Solar_Oracle> I heard their
astronauts' version of Tang is UDMH.
L25[02:38:20] <raptop> extra spicy
L26[02:39:32] <Solar_Oracle> Serious
question: If I'm developing a fully reusable, two stage launch
vehicle wherein the upper stage is also a crew vehicle/glorified
payload fairing, would it be best to make that upper stage space
plane-ish or a very tall capsule?
L27[02:42:37] <raptop> Making it plane-ish
would probably be harder, but having cross-range would be nice for
landing at KSC or the like
L28[02:42:56] <Kevin> tall capsules are
unstable, hard to control and land. can it be a *short* capsule?
:). spaceplanes also require quite a bit of design work, although
once it's done it's a plane
L29[02:42:58] <Solar_Oracle> I'm guessing
the latter would sort of be like this, but with the more forgiving
delta-v requirements of KSP that actually make it possible
https://imgur.com/GgJtNQO
L30[02:43:52] <Solar_Oracle> I'm terrible
at designing planes, though, and I like the thought of using my
wide NFT boosters as the basis for mammoth payload bays.
L32[02:47:46] <raptop> shiny
L33[02:47:47] <Solar_Oracle> Though I don't
have the fairing itself yet, as it's pretty far down the techtree
where I am.
L34[02:47:57] <Solar_Oracle> I can build
all the gigantic other rocket components, though.
L35[02:49:05] <raptop> I was mainly imaging
a literal spaceplane for the upper stage, or a conventional upper
stage with chutes (and maybe a bit of fuel reserved for soft
landings)
L38[02:53:31] <Solar_Oracle> Though I sort
of can't do that one in KSP, and I can't imagine making those tanks
in real life would be easy.
L39[02:53:39] <raptop> the second one would
be closer
L41[02:54:13] <raptop> (exact design could
be quite different in detail)
L42[02:55:52] <Solar_Oracle> No fins, only
gimbals
L43[02:56:09] <Solar_Oracle> Or those
verniers Soyuz is still toting.
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L45[03:01:24] <raptop> Hrm
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L48[03:05:43] <Izaya> that first one is
certainly something
L49[03:06:08] <Solar_Oracle> The Alt-Buran
or something else?
L50[03:06:39] <raptop> I assume that Izaya
means the saturn-shuttle
L51[03:06:50] <Izaya> the last picture
posted, whatever that was
L52[03:07:11] <raptop> ah, the last one
Solar_Oracle posted was an alt-buran
L53[03:07:18] <Izaya> I guess that
figures
L54[03:07:27] <raptop> proposed second
generation design that would be fully reusable
L55[03:07:31] <Solar_Oracle> Buran, but
without a face.
L56[03:07:42] <Izaya> seems to embody the
kerbal school of design: more boosters
L57[03:08:18] <Solar_Oracle> It's like
Energia and Buran got hit by one of those energy waves from Doom
and were welded together.
L58[03:09:37] <raptop> Some shuttle
followup proposals were similar
L59[03:09:50] <raptop> (At least ones
proposed circa 1985-1995)
L60[03:11:36] <Solar_Oracle> There were
plenty of proposals to have the main propellant tank operate as a
base for bulky payloads, like satellites with enormous dishes and
oversized SUVs.
L64[03:16:57] <Solar_Oracle> Mini main
propellant tanks!
L65[03:17:41] <Solar_Oracle> I'm guessing
that didn't carry as much.
L66[03:20:40] <raptop> I'm unclear on
exactly how much it would have carried, but probably
L67[03:21:12] *
raptop inserts my standard rant that all fungible shuttle payloads
should have gone on much cheaper Titan III / IV
rockets
L68[03:25:19] <Solar_Oracle> Would that
mean you'd have to leave out Galileo as it was one-of-a-kind?
L69[03:25:42] <raptop> Yes because the
shuttle was a generation ahead in reliability
L70[03:25:54] <Solar_Oracle> In some
alternate timeline, it's not delayed because of Challenger but ends
up exploding on a somewhat less reliable Titan rocket.
L71[03:26:10] <raptop> well, yes
L72[03:27:40] <Solar_Oracle> You people
today are all spoiled on your super reliable LVs. Back in ma'
pappy's day, we'd be happy if our Atlas waited to explode after
takeoff!
L73[03:29:07] <Solar_Oracle> Get all upset
when yer' Mars helicopter is delayed? Meh, you know how many
Rangers failed 'fore we even got one that could make it to the
Moon!?
L74[03:30:58] <raptop> And then the first
one to do so couldn't use its cameras
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L77[03:32:00] <Solar_Oracle> Stupid
exploding un-burnt fuel.
L78[03:36:22] <Solar_Oracle> My favorite
launch failure is the time an unmanned Soyuz capsule entered
launch-abort mode on the pad and the exhaust from the escape tower
motors set the rest of the stack on fire.
L79[03:39:17] <Solar_Oracle> In effect, the
launch abort system caused the failure of the rest of the
rocket.
L80[03:39:24] <raptop> wait, what?
L82[03:39:44] <raptop> That does sound
vaguely like when that one soyuz caught on fire on the pad circa
1981-82
L83[03:39:52] <Solar_Oracle> It was one of
the spacecraft's earliest tests.
L84[03:39:53] <raptop> ah
L85[03:40:19] <Solar_Oracle> There was a
scrubbed launch and the LV registered an unplanned movement,
triggering the escape system.
L86[03:40:38] <Solar_Oracle> However, there
were peopled congregating on the pad at the time ala the Nedelin
Catastrophe.
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L88[03:43:21] <raptop> "As the veteran
of the mission Vladimir Syromyatnikov later wrote with his famous
black humor: "a few world records were broken that day in
running and high jumping.""
L89[03:44:40] <Solar_Oracle> There needs to
be a movie on the early Soviet space program like The Right Stuff.
This is [black] comedy gold!
L90[03:45:10] <Solar_Oracle> Or I suppose
it'd be more similar to The Death of Stalin, but with Korolev being
the one dying.
L91[03:50:37] <raptop> Consider: a
miniseries about soviet/russian space stations. Start with them
watching the moon landing and the pivot to the Salyuts, end with
launching Zarya
L92[03:52:53] <Solar_Oracle> That'd be kind
of a low note given that Zarya's owned by the U.S.
L93[03:53:41] <Solar_Oracle> And if I
recall, is mostly a very large walk-in closet.
L94[03:53:56] <raptop> It doesn't feel like
there's a good high note to end it on
L95[03:55:16] <Solar_Oracle> Salyut 7's
successful retirement mission alongside Mir?
L96[03:55:42] <Solar_Oracle> Just pretend
the next three decades don't happen!
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L99[03:58:12] <Althego> oh no, the reaper
is coming and i have to go to the bakery
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L101[03:58:40] <Solar_Oracle> Where's
Commander Shepherd when you need them?
L102[03:59:08] <raptop> Althego: wait,
wouldn't being a phoenix make baking things really easy?
L103[04:00:26] <raptop> or did you mean
that *you* have to go to the bakery?
L104[04:00:31] <raptop> Solar_Oracle:
vtuber silliness
L105[04:01:08] <Solar_Oracle> Vtuber?
What's that? Is that like a blogger that runs on vacuum
tubes?
L106[04:02:13] <raptop> heh
L107[04:02:30] *
raptop imagines a vacuum tube powered webserver
L108[04:03:08] <raptop> more seriously,
virtual youtuber -- you know those people that have anime girl
(usually) avatars and stream things?
L109[04:05:03] <Althego> guh
L110[04:05:17] <Althego> i have to go to
the bakery. the phoenix is in 8 hours
L111[04:06:21] <Solar_Oracle> Wait, is
that like that thin where little kids watch You Tube videos of
other little kids playing with toys?
L112[04:06:25] *
raptop is also using vaguely following some vtubers as an excuse to
learn japanese
L113[04:07:07] <Althego> vtuber reads
comic about vtubers lol
L114[04:07:18] <Althego> the previous such
thing is legendary
L115[04:08:47] <Solar_Oracle> The internet
is becoming too meta.
L116[04:09:08] <raptop> too late
L117[04:09:16] <Solar_Oracle> You fools
risk summoning the End of Cycle!
L118[04:09:46] <Althego> doubly meta,
because people call calli dad, and she reads the comic my dad is
the queen of all vtubers
L119[04:13:09] <raptop> The meta is all
sorts of fun. see: gura getting distracted by sharks in the
background in underwater sequences
L120[04:13:22] <raptop> or ina in horror
games
L121[04:13:38] <Solar_Oracle> I knew I
should've just stayed back in the era of Angelfire and flame
gifs.
L122[04:14:18] *
raptop presses F to pay respects to AIM and the old XMPP google
chat
L123[04:16:40] <Solar_Oracle> All this
research on reusing upper stages makes me sad I'll be sucked into
Stellaris once again.
L124[04:22:42] <Izaya> still mad google
stopped federating
L125[04:22:53] <Izaya> but maybe not
having the network dominated by an evil company isn't so bad
L126[04:22:53] <Althego> was it ua that
wants to keep them in orbit and do something with thtem?
L127[04:24:04] <raptop> something
something external tank space station
L128[04:27:10] <Solar_Oracle> No no no,
grind them up into propellant.
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L130[04:29:13] <Althego> ah they want to
use them as refueling depot
L131[04:32:37] <Althego> name it brennan
debot
L132[04:32:49] <Althego> because in elite
2 there were things named brennan
L133[04:32:55] <Althego> i guess maybe a
developer
L134[04:37:49] <Althego> what do you know
brennan depot is still there in elite dangerous
L135[04:38:16] <Althego> i remember i used
to transport something between arcturus and 70 ophiuchi
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L139[05:03:26] <raptop> friendship drive
charging?
L140[05:08:21] <Althego> when guh is a
legitimate line in the comic. this is made for calli
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L151[06:55:36] <Althego> we mentioned fuel
depot in orbit. and there it is an angry astronaut video about the
exact same thing
L152[07:00:44] <Althego> oh no,
zombanwa
L153[07:04:39] <Althego> when is the
ingenuity flight?
L154[07:23:43] <Althego> hehe, ash ketchum
is 34 years old
L155[07:26:53] <Izaya> stop that
L156[07:27:58] <Althego> bart simpson is
41
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L192[11:20:55] <Mat2ch> lol. Blue Origin
shall build a space craft that is then powered by a nuclear stage
(a NERVA)
L193[11:21:21] <Mat2ch> They haven't put
anything in orbit yet and already get such contracts. That smells
so much like corruption, I don't know why.
L194[11:22:16] <flayer> to be fair many
companies that don't have rockets to put them in space participate
in building space crafts
L195[11:24:00] <Mat2ch> yes, but they
usually have some reptutation to do so. Mostly because they are
founded by space veterans
L196[11:24:09] <Mat2ch> And Blue Origin is
a joke to me.
L197[11:24:15] <Althego> actually they
didnt get contracts where ula and spacex did
L198[11:24:25] <Althego> so not everything
is corrupt
L199[11:24:52] <Althego> i just dont get
why they cant produce anything useful
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L201[11:25:14] <Althego> they have the
backing of maybe the richest man, or at least he used to be,
because he gets income from amazon
L202[11:25:31] <FLHerne> BO do have a lot
of veteran space talent
L203[11:25:45] <Althego> yet they are
older than spacex and never went into orbit
L204[11:26:02] <Mat2ch> It's a management
problem!
L205[11:26:09] <Althego> even the launch
that possibly happens today, that rocket although suborbital, never
carried a person
L206[11:26:30] <Mat2ch> If a company
doesn't perform well, it is usally the management making poor or
bad decisions. Mostly because they don't know what they are talking
about
L207[11:26:43] <Althego> well, spacex has
that too
L208[11:26:51] <Mat2ch> Bezos is no Musk
driving things forward.
L209[11:26:52] <Althego> i never believed
the point ot point starship idea
L210[11:26:58] <Althego> costs too much
and too risky
L211[11:27:03] <Mat2ch> It's just a
vision, will probably never happen.
L212[11:27:30] <Mat2ch> Far too expensive.
Building a hyperloop over land will be so much easier compared to
that.
L213[11:27:34] <Mat2ch> and cleaner.
L214[11:27:39] <Mat2ch> and more
efficient
L215[11:27:41] <Althego> and i dont
believe hyperloop either
L216[11:27:54] <flayer> i think starship
can actually happen
L217[11:28:00] <Mat2ch> Putting a maglev
train in a low pressure tube is nothing fancy.
L218[11:28:02] <Althego> that can
L219[11:28:07] <Althego> probably hard,
but can be done
L220[11:28:17] <flayer> to the moon, to
mars, yeah, i think it's entirely feasible
L221[11:28:19] <Althego> but i am talking
about suborbital point to point flights with it
L222[11:28:34] <Althego> it is simply not
competitive with airlines
L223[11:28:43] <flayer> yeah, that
seems... like it would take longer to set up and prepare each
flight than the actual flight itself would take
L224[11:28:45] <Althego> especially with
the new supersonic are happening soon
L225[11:28:50] <sandbox> you don't believe
the hype?
L226[11:28:53] <flayer> in that whole
space of time, you can just take an ordinary plane
L227[11:29:07] <Althego> you even need to
take a boat out to a launch platform at sea
L228[11:29:21] <Althego> and the fuel
costs alone are probably several times bigger
L229[11:29:26] <Althego> and less
safe
L230[11:29:32] <Althego> for slight time
margins
L231[11:30:14] <Althego> oh a jay
L232[11:30:22] <Althego> they dont usually
come here
L235[11:31:05] <Mat2ch> Althego: uhm, the
new super sonic stuff will have low capacity, high maintanace and
nobody is talking about fuel costs here
L236[11:31:32] <Althego> because a rocket
is not low capacity high maintenance
L237[11:31:38] <Mat2ch> hyperloop can be
built high capacity, low mainantance and fully electric powered
with energy regeneration on braking
L238[11:34:13] <Althego> hyperloop is
maybe slightly more plausible than the point to point
starship
L239[11:37:15] <flayer> did you also take
into account the vast wealth inequality
L240[11:37:27] <flayer> people like musk,
bezos, gates, etc, might think that it is worth the money
L241[11:37:52] <flayer> to travel in a
rocket from earth to earth
L242[11:37:56] <Althego> (local) leet
time
L243[11:38:04] <Althego> !time
L244[11:38:04] <Kerbot> Althego =>
13:38:04 CEST on 2021-04-14 Wednesday CW 15
L245[11:38:10] <Althego> i think i barely
made it
L246[11:38:29] <flayer> 4 seconds before
1338 for me
L247[11:38:51] <Althego> yes looks like
that
L248[11:39:05] <Althego> the clock is
about 4 seconds behind and showed 52
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L252[12:02:24] <Althego> phoenix is coming
but i still have an almost 3 hour long flat earth video
L253[12:04:27] <Althego> kikkerikii
L254[12:12:48] <darsie> .
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L256[12:15:06] <Althego> 2 hours until the
blue origin stream
L258[12:17:33] <Mat2ch> seems reasonable.
:D
L259[12:17:56] <Althego> lol
L260[12:18:18] <Althego> if it is under
pressure it should be quite rigid
L261[12:18:39] <Althego> and the bottom is
full of tiles which could be replaced
L262[12:18:58] <Althego> but non ideal. i
am really afraid those tiles are going to be a long term
issue
L263[12:19:09] <Mat2ch> well, even if it
is pressurized this would be a lot of stress to the structure
L264[12:19:17] <Mat2ch> and damgaged tiles
means more maintance.
L265[12:19:31] <Althego> the whole
structure is big, i would make the webbed part bigger
L266[12:19:36] <Althego> think of the
fairings
L267[12:19:49] <Althego> the web was way
bigger and it was hard to catch them
L268[12:19:54] <Althego> to the point they
gave up on it
L269[12:21:46] <Mat2ch> well, the fairings
did come on parafoils
L270[12:22:02] <Mat2ch> which makes it a
very dynamic system
L271[12:22:11] <Mat2ch> starship on the
other hand falls very controlled all the way.
L272[12:22:32] <Mat2ch> and its mass makes
it more resiliant to wind gusts.
L274[12:36:32] <darsie> flayer: I'm used
to slapping in another channel.
L275[12:37:05] <Althego> the princess is
in another castle
L276[12:37:41] <darsie> Has she been
sleeping for 100 years? She must be very old and smell horribly,
then.
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L279[14:20:32] <Guest81405> hello
L280[14:20:33] <Mod9000> Hello,
Guest81405
L281[14:20:38] <darsie> .
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L283[14:35:17] <Althego> heh blue origin
launch is on hold
L284[14:35:26] <minas_tirith> Hi
darsie
L285[14:35:31] <Mat2ch> woooot
L286[14:35:33] <darsie> .
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L289[14:36:20] <Mat2ch> Uh, SN15 might
have its static fire test on Friday
L290[14:36:28] <Mat2ch> (almost wrote
Fireday. Not that wrong. ;)
L291[14:36:31] <darsie> Althego:
url?
L293[14:37:14] <darsie> k
L295[14:37:23] <Althego> but probably not
today
L296[14:37:32] <darsie> thx
L297[14:45:09] <Althego> hah 10 minutes
until stream
L298[14:45:10] <Althego> so maybe
L299[14:58:05] <darsie> live
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L313[16:03:49] <flayer> yeah
L314[16:03:58] <flayer> that kind of thing
is going to become an ever bigger problem
L315[16:12:40] <Althego> what is with
these holds
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L318[16:26:06] <Althego> ehhe americans
with letter and stuff
L319[16:27:06] <raptop> and the multiple
letter standards
L320[16:27:07] <Althego> i didnt expect a
universe scale video
L321[16:27:10] *
raptop stab stab stabbity stab stab
L322[16:27:52] <raptop> But yes, that is a
fun powers of 10 style video
L323[16:28:17] *
raptop is also reminded of the hexagons are the bestagons video for
some reason
L324[16:30:54] <Althego> yes, lets make
all strategies hexagonal
L325[16:31:29] <Althego> hexagons are fine
for insect vision, they would be fine for cameras and screens
too
L326[16:39:15] <raptop> ⌬⌬⌬
L327[16:39:38] <Althego> countdown
afgaun
L328[16:39:45] <raptop> ⏣⏣⏣
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L331[16:49:42] <Althego> now
L332[16:49:58] <Althego> i forgot to
double the speed
L333[16:50:09] <Althego> there is a 15 sec
buffer
L334[16:56:57] <Althego> sapcex does
better landings without hover
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L353[18:08:40] <Mat2ch> Althego: but but
but
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