OCLogs: 2021-03-01.log

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L20[04:13:49] <JVFoxy> Rocket plane... actually flies pretty good, surprisingly: https://imgur.com/a/1fXIoft

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L22[04:27:28] ChanServ sets mode: +o on Althego

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L25[04:35:24] <Althego> eh launch was aborted

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L27[04:39:38] <JVFoxy> try again tomorrow?

L28[04:40:02] <JVFoxy> one I'm curious most is the Dragon 2 crew returning

L29[05:02:29] <Althego> there should be two going up this spring

L30[05:02:42] <Althego> one replacement crew and the "tourist contract"

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L33[05:08:17] <JVFoxy> tourist huh?

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L45[07:11:25] <Guest91006> iam new for modding

L46[07:11:36] <Guest91006> anyone tell me how to do

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L48[07:13:03] <Althego> installing or developing mods?

L49[07:13:11] <Guest91006> developing

L50[07:13:24] <Guest91006> i have programming knowledge

L51[07:14:20] <Althego> i think there is a #kspmodders for that

L52[07:14:44] <Guest91006> what

L53[07:14:53] <Althego> an other channel

L54[07:15:10] <Guest91006> did you know how to develop

L55[07:15:57] <Althego> or was it #kspmodding i am not sure because at some point there was a community split over there

L56[07:16:15] <Althego> most people here do not know much about modding

L57[07:16:22] <Guest91006> ok

L58[07:16:34] <Guest91006> thank you for that

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L67[09:32:47] <hmw[at]> FPS drop heavily when I look at Kerbin. With Mun it is by far not as bad. Is there something I can do about it? I would not care, if Kerbin looked really bad

L68[09:33:44] <hmw[at]> I get about 5 FPS, while in space everything is quite fluid :(

L69[09:33:57] <hmw[at]> KSC is also insanely bad. I barely can't close the program

L70[09:34:05] <flayer> my bet is on water

L71[09:34:16] <flayer> lower your water quality

L72[09:35:40] <hmw[at]> I am using no visual mods, and have set everything to mostly lowest possible. I was wondering, if I can perhaps remove the oceans completly or something

L73[09:35:55] <hmw[at]> I guess there is no stock setting for oceans, right?

L74[09:36:49] <hmw[at]> Also, I found that I need to change the render niceness after loading the game, or the game gets additionally slow

L75[09:36:54] <hmw[at]> slower

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L77[09:37:15] <hmw[at]> After so many years still the same old bugs :/

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L80[10:12:31] <packbart> like any other game, too

L81[10:13:42] <Althego> actually since they upgraded the graphics a bit i can hear that the video card fan is spinning faster than for anything else, including horizon zero dawn

L82[10:14:19] <Althego> having lights on also doesnt help

L83[10:15:04] <Althego> so i suspect they messed up something when they made the new shaders

L84[10:31:42] <packbart> hm. probably depends on "anything else". KSP is one of the least-demanding games in my library

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L86[10:42:00] <minas_tirith> KSP is quite heavy

L87[10:44:00] <flayer> KSP just sucks my CPU dry after a few scene switches

L88[10:45:19] <Mat2ch> mostly a fault of Unity.

L89[10:45:28] <Mat2ch> That was the wrong choice back then.

L90[10:45:50] <Mat2ch> They should've gone for the Unreal Engine or something similar. But they chose Unity

L91[10:46:30] <Mat2ch> and I was a fan of the Unreal Engine. But epic has been shooty about Linux support, so I mostly dislike them now.

L92[10:46:41] <Mat2ch> Great engine, stupid management.

L93[10:51:23] <Althego> when they started unity was an ok choice

L94[10:51:45] <Althego> today with what the game has become, unreal would be better. but i dont know much about these

L95[10:51:57] <Althego> neither are too fit to hadle interplanetary distances

L96[10:54:47] <Mat2ch> The problem with unity is the way objects are handled internally.

L97[10:55:19] <Mat2ch> With the Unreal Engine you have to do much more yourself. So the calculation of the distance would be completely your part, you wouldn't use a scripting language for that

L98[10:55:42] <Mat2ch> which means you can choose a library (or do it yourself, shouldn't be that hard) that can handle huge numbers

L99[10:56:21] <Mat2ch> and then you only need a translation between displaying objects and your internal model of where they are.

L100[10:57:09] <Mat2ch> And now the problem becomes easy. Since everything further away than 2.5 km isn't rendered there are only the planets and moons left

L101[10:58:14] <Mat2ch> if they get too small (distance too big) don't render them at all

L102[10:58:58] <Mat2ch> and then you can make a few optimizations like not using floats for the planets, but integers with a mm precision.

L103[11:02:11] <Mat2ch> the orbit of Pluto would still fit in a 64 bit integer value

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L105[11:13:39] <Mat2ch> People often think: Oh, we need floats here, because the numbers are big or we need the precision. Which often isn't the case at all. Floats are just there and therefore are getting used

L106[11:15:33] <Althego> once i saw (and ported) asm code that was running a whole helicopter simulator in fixed point operations, running on a minicomputer from the 60s

L107[11:15:59] <Althego> so it is possible

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L109[11:54:06] <Mat2ch> It is not only possible, it is the way to go. You don't need precision down to the atom for a simulator :)

L110[11:54:37] <Althego> and actually floats dont help you with that

L111[11:54:49] <Mat2ch> and then we might be able to get a voxel based aero-dynamics model, too!

L112[11:55:02] <Mat2ch> less calculations, faster, weeeeeeee

L113[11:55:54] <Althego> no

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L129[13:45:18] <packbart> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agqxJw5ISdk&t=3m8s - Peter Beck eating his hat

L130[13:46:30] <Althego> hehe, i was waiting for it

L131[13:46:36] <Althego> i thought maybe a hat shaped cake

L132[13:46:57] <Althego> will it blend?

L133[13:47:48] <Althego> wait, this is 1st of march, not aprli

L134[13:47:49] <packbart> nah, "Beck said he's "keen for the real thing" rather than a cop-out such as a Homer Simpson-style nacho hat. "

L135[13:48:19] <Althego> so they are really building a bigger rocket?

L136[13:48:46] <packbart> apparently so

L137[13:49:01] <packbart> reusable, human-rated, mega-constellation-ready

L138[13:51:06] <Mat2ch> Ohha

L139[13:51:16] <Mat2ch> RocketLab wants to do human spaceflight as well

L140[13:51:58] * Mat2ch looks at ESA

L141[13:52:00] <Mat2ch> nah

L142[13:52:03] <Mat2ch> not going to happen

L143[13:52:21] <Mat2ch> buying stuff from others is so much easier

L144[13:54:10] <umaxtu> the megaconstellation angle seems smart. no details on a new engine though

L145[13:57:41] <Althego> fnny that he was sitting in th fairing the whole time

L146[14:00:38] <Althego> with 8 tonnes, you could put a smaller capsule in space

L147[14:01:09] <umaxtu> so they have to be developing their own human spacecraft

L148[14:01:20] <Althego> maybe not

L149[14:01:25] <Althego> they just human rate the rocket

L150[14:01:40] <Althego> altoughh i dont know if it is possible without a spacecraft on it

L151[14:02:02] <umaxtu> Ariane 5 was human rated wasn't it?

L152[14:02:06] <Althego> or it is just specific reduncandies, abort scenarios, accelerations and shakes

L153[14:02:51] <umaxtu> they might be able to use Soyuz

L154[14:03:51] <Althego> how heavy is a crew dragon?

L155[14:04:39] <umaxtu> just the payload capacity is 6 tons according to wikipedia

L156[14:05:41] <umaxtu> soyuz looks like it would be around the 8ton mark

L157[14:07:46] <Althego> so i still dont know whether that 8 tonnes is less or more?

L158[14:07:53] <Althego> oh maybe if i check the falcon 9

L159[14:08:46] <Althego> yes that is 15.6 t when reused

L160[14:08:58] <Althego> but i guess the 8 t is still enough for a human capsuel

L161[14:09:10] <Althego> maybe not with 7 őpeople macx, justwith 3

L162[14:09:31] <Althego> not the humans are the heavy things, but theiur food, life support, walls, heat shield. etc

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L164[14:11:46] <packbart> Kerbal-rated rockets are easier to build

L165[14:16:20] <Mat2ch> doesn't matter if Ariane V is/could be human rated if we have no capsule to fly on top of it...

L166[14:16:54] <Mat2ch> "oh, look, we have put millions into a reusable vehicle for Ariane V, but lets abbandon it."

L167[14:17:26] <packbart> the ATV was supposed to have a human variant

L168[14:18:04] <packbart> actually, Wikipedia says it is. "Crew: 0, but human-rated"

L169[14:18:30] <packbart> However, on 2 April 2012, the ESA announced that the ATV program would be terminated following the launch of the fifth ATV in 2014

L170[14:19:00] <Althego> kerbal rated rockets are easier to build, because they are not rated. but it is a lot harder to find kerbals to ride them

L171[14:19:30] <Althego> actually the orion service module is from the atv

L172[14:19:45] <Mat2ch> Kerbal rated rockets are also very easy to build. Use duct tape, tape Kerbal to rocket.

L173[14:19:47] <Mat2ch> :D

L174[14:19:52] <Althego> hehe

L175[14:20:11] <Mat2ch> when will the orion module fly?

L176[14:20:28] <Althego> didnt it do once already?

L177[14:21:23] <packbart> it did, a long time ago

L178[14:21:41] <packbart> "At 7:05 AM EST on December 5, 2014, the Orion capsule was launched atop a Delta IV Heavy rocket for its first test flight, and splashed down in the Pacific Ocean about 4.5 hours later. Although it was not crewed, the two-orbit flight was NASA's first launch of a human-rated vehicle since the retirement of the Space Shuttle fleet in 2011. Orion reached an altitude of 3,600 mi (5,800 km) and speeds

L179[14:21:47] <packbart> of up to 20,000 mph (8,900 m/s) on a flight that tested Orion's heat shield, parachutes, jettisoning components, and on-board computers."

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L181[15:55:55] <Althego> hehe i dont believe it. a flat earther went to watch a spacex launch

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L183[16:16:30] <darsie> Like, live, direct view?

L184[16:17:02] <darsie> It's the most reasonable thing to do.

L185[16:17:04] <Althego> few km from laiunc hsite. in the dark

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L187[16:17:24] <darsie> only believe what you experience yourself.

L188[16:17:35] <darsie> Don't believe in America.

L189[16:17:49] <darsie> Unless you've been there.

L190[16:18:10] <Althego> i havent. i was just on the continent :)

L191[16:18:18] <packbart> so, you don't believe in space, the moon, the sun, galaxies?

L192[16:18:20] <darsie> America is a continent.

L193[16:18:30] <Althego> yes but people mean use when they say taht

L194[16:18:32] <darsie> I mean for a flat Earther.

L195[16:19:04] <darsie> packbart: Some flatters think they're just images on a screen.

L196[16:20:20] <packbart> well, Flat Earthers are just images on a Youtube screen to me

L197[16:20:40] <darsie> Could be. I never met one.

L198[16:20:46] <Althego> anyway, since it was a recent event, it was probably a starlink launch

L199[16:20:51] <packbart> me neither. I doubt they really exist

L200[16:21:14] <Althego> so even despite watching it, he was claiming it is a balloon and your money is stolen... it wasnt since spacex was the customer

L201[16:21:38] <darsie> F9 is a balloon?

L202[16:21:52] <Althego> the shuttle too

L203[16:21:56] <Althego> helium in the tank :)

L204[16:22:19] <darsie> There's He in F9 :)

L205[16:22:49] <Althego> because they dont realize 1.2 twr ad especialy from far away looks completely different than a small high twr rocket that never goes into orbit

L206[16:23:49] <darsie> Noisy balloon.

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L208[16:25:00] <darsie> I wonder if the other flatters believe what he saw.

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L210[16:32:14] <darsie> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/nasa-needs-to-rename-the-james-webb-space-telescope/

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L215[16:42:05] <packbart> Cancel Culture - in spaaace!

L216[16:43:09] <umaxtu> of course he did, that was 70 years ago

L217[16:43:49] <umaxtu> how about they wait to see if its a success or failure before they rename it

L218[16:45:16] <umaxtu> if it fails, leave it named after the bigot, if it succeeds, rename it

L219[16:49:54] <packbart> naming things after people is always a bad idea. just call everything "A Thing"

L220[16:50:27] <Althego> name people after things, then the problem is solved :)

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L222[16:50:50] <packbart> well, I am

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L225[16:59:49] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9I8lvxoljvw

L226[16:59:57] <Althego> something about crew-2

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L233[18:23:06] <Althego> second crew-2 stream coming up https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_C91gNU4A

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L235[18:26:03] <Althego> wait did that guy just revealed the landing issue?

L236[18:26:07] <Althego> or was this an older one?

L237[18:26:25] <TristenKSP> @Althego What are you guys talking about?

L238[18:26:46] <Althego> it is just me talking to myself

L239[18:27:30] <TristenKSP> Ah, yeah you do that a lot.

L240[18:27:46] <TristenKSP> It's gonna be my 13th birthday in 14 days.

L241[18:27:50] <sheeep> Hey there

L242[18:27:55] <TristenKSP> Howdy

L243[18:28:44] <FLHerne> Althego: yes

L244[18:29:05] <Althego> whatever that engine boot is

L245[18:29:31] <FLHerne> Althego: Flexible seal between the base shielding and the engine

L246[18:29:32] <TristenKSP> I want to get this as one of my presents for my birthday. It's a Lego M.O.C (My Own Creation) of the Perseverance Mars Rover and the Ingenuity Mars Helicopter. https://www.amazon.com/Perseverance-Ingenuity-Helicopter-Educational-Building/dp/B08KZN1B4J/ref=pd_lpo_21_t_1/142-4378390-6239609?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B08KZN1B4J&pd_rd_r=5a1cdf74-1294-483c

L247[18:29:32] <TristenKSP> -ba13-1bef2510c181&pd_rd_w=zsvTj&pd_rd_wg=c3nKR&pf_rd_p=16b28406-aa34-451d-8a2e-b3930ada000c&pf_rd_r=HQWNCSSFZS6622QDDPJN&psc=1&refRID=HQWNCSSFZS6622QDDPJN

L248[18:29:55] <FLHerne> Like on an axle or steering column or gearstick

L249[18:31:10] <FLHerne> TristenKSP: In that case, under the rules we need to ban you for two weeks :p

L250[18:31:18] <FLHerne> (somehow I doubt anyone will bother)

L251[18:32:07] <TristenKSP> That don't make no sense. I thought KSP was rated "Everyone 10+" by the ESRB?

L252[18:32:21] <TristenKSP> (Epic Solid Rocket Booster)

L253[18:32:29] <Althego> hehe

L254[18:32:57] <Althego> btw dont reveal your age on the internet

L255[18:33:12] <TristenKSP> But it's my birthday soon

L256[18:35:15] <FLHerne> TristenKSP: There's a law called COPPA that creates massive legal liabilities if under-13s are allowed to post anything, so the KSP forums don't, and this channel follows the KSP forum rules

L257[18:35:26] <TristenKSP> Ohhh

L258[18:35:33] <FLHerne> As the rules point out, it's fine so long as you don't tell anyone :p

L259[18:35:36] <TristenKSP> Yeah, I forgot about COPPA

L260[18:35:47] <FLHerne> (because no-one knows you're a dog or a 12-year-old on the internet)

L261[18:35:50] <TristenKSP> Just pretend I didn't say that

L262[18:36:37] <FLHerne> But probably don't anyway, too many weirdos (of the wrong kind) online

L263[18:37:15] <TristenKSP> Yeah

L264[18:37:29] <TristenKSP> Isn't COPPA a relatively new law too?

L265[18:37:36] <Althego> also... i am not a cat :)

L266[18:37:41] <FLHerne> Not very

L267[18:37:56] <packbart> enacted October 21, 1998. effective April 21, 2000

L268[18:38:03] <TristenKSP> Oh

L269[18:38:10] <packbart> ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children's_Online_Privacy_Protection_Act )

L270[18:38:26] <TristenKSP> Then why was it such a big deal on YouTube in, like, 2018?

L271[18:38:34] <packbart> but I'm not even in the US...

L272[18:39:09] <TristenKSP> Nani?!

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L274[18:40:14] <Althego> omae wa mou shindeiru :)

L275[18:40:25] <TristenKSP> (But you are already dead.)

L276[18:40:31] <Althego> normally it is the reversed order

L277[18:40:45] <TristenKSP> o

L278[18:42:50] <TristenKSP> Remember when Opportunity went into hibernation and never woke up on June 12, 2018? That hit the whole world HARD. I remember seeing people who had very little interest in space itself, being sad that Opportunity went out after 14 years of service.

L279[18:43:55] <packbart> I remember Spirit, too, and when it first became a "stationary science platform"

L280[18:44:24] <Althego> yes that was kind of strange way of saying they were stuck

L281[18:44:34] <Althego> i remember watching the landing of the second one online

L282[18:44:40] <Althego> 56k modem

L283[18:44:51] <Althego> video was the size of a stamp

L284[18:45:03] <Althego> was still on crt

L285[18:46:00] <TristenKSP> I really hope the Perseverance Engineers made it so Percy will sing "Happy Birthday" with Curiosity on August 8, and Curiosity will sing with Perseverance if Percy will sing "Happy Birthday" on February 18, so that way Curiosity knows they're not alone on Mars anymore.

L286[18:51:16] <TristenKSP> I just now found out that Curiosity doesn't sing itself Happy Birthday anymore. It also sang on August 5th.

L287[18:51:59] <Althego> i think it did only once

L288[18:52:22] <TristenKSP> Too many people were super sad probably

L289[18:54:16] <TristenKSP> The weird thing is, we have feelings for robotic science labs on wheels that adventure for 6 - 8 months to Mars and last a few years. An example of this is Opportunity going into hibernation, people were so sad, Opportunity got short comics written about them.

L290[19:03:06] <Althego> the second crew-2 stream is starting

L291[19:04:41] <TristenKSP> What's the Crew-2

L292[19:04:47] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3_C91gNU4A

L293[19:05:25] <Althego> crew-2 is the second crew launching to the iss on a spacex crew dragon

L294[19:05:39] <Althego> actually 3rd, but the previous one was a test flight

L295[19:05:48] <Althego> i mean the first one

L296[19:05:59] <TristenKSP> Oh

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L298[19:09:39] <Althego> she said "ashtronaout" twice

L299[19:25:19] <Mat2ch> hidden ad for cigarettes!

L300[19:31:00] <raptop> . o O (Hololive plays KSP)

L301[19:31:34] <Althego> where

L302[19:31:43] <Althego> so you got your space vtuber? :)

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L304[19:34:11] <Althego> now we need crossbones

L305[19:35:25] <raptop> I mean, it hasn't happened, but could be amusing

L306[19:35:36] <raptop> Come to think of it, sea of thieves could make for some amusing collabs

L307[19:53:21] <sheeep> does anyone know how the rover repair on minmus mission works?

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L309[20:04:55] <packbart> attach missing parts, then drive the rover to a waypoint

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L313[20:19:22] <sheeep> right, im at the waypoint, mission doesnt react

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L316[20:32:06] <packbart> sheeep: hm. it did work for me. you could resolve the contract via the Mod-F12 menu, of course

L317[20:34:50] <packbart> I think I read a post on the forum where the waypoint was impossibly placed below the surface or something like that. I only tried one rover repair mission so far and didn't have any problems. lucky me, I guess

L318[20:41:40] <sheeep> ok ty

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L321[21:18:28] <sheeep> Hmm

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L323[21:30:09] <hmw[at]> Any of you happen to know, what's going on? I believe, I've seen this in earlier versions too, but not I use 1.8.1 - When I start the game, I get a really bad frame rate, unless I go to settings and change the renderer back and forth. This is a workaround, that actually helps me, but I am curious to know, if someone else is seeing this, too

L324[21:30:27] <hmw[at]> s/not/now

L325[21:31:29] <hmw[at]> no graphics mods, only things like MechJeb or Navball Docking Port Alignment Indicator and such

L326[21:32:00] <hmw[at]> If I had the money, I'd buy KSP and have its bugs fixed...

L327[21:40:32] <FLHerne> hmw[at]: What graphics driver? That sounds remarkably like the issue I was having in Minecraft recently (with radeonsi on Linux)

L328[21:41:00] <hmw[at]> Old-ish Intel Integrated on Linux

L329[21:41:32] <hmw[at]> I can play with minimum graphics settings, and I need to avoid looking at Kerbin :)

L330[21:41:59] <FLHerne> And avoid letting any smoke build up?

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L332[21:42:15] * FLHerne has bad memories of playing on a similar IGP

L333[21:42:18] <hmw[at]> I just have no idea, what toggling the renderer setting might do to the drivers, or which part causes the problem

L334[21:43:06] <hmw[at]> To be clear: This is not really a support request - I am only interested in the technical details because of curiosity

L335[21:43:58] <FLHerne> Well, let me know if you find out ;-)

L336[21:44:17] <FLHerne> I asked in #radeon, but didn't get any answers that were much help

L337[21:44:35] <hmw[at]> I shall post any findings here :)

L338[21:45:50] <hmw[at]> For the thing with oceans causing FPS drops; I tried to abuse Scatterer with its ocean config deleted, so the water was gone. Same low FPS though.

L339[21:46:15] <hmw[at]> FPS on the Mün is pretty fine tho

L340[21:47:08] <Izaya> haha, delete the ocean

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L343[21:48:53] <hmw[at]> Read it on Reddit or something. Sounded reasonable, but didn't really do much

L344[21:49:06] <hmw[at]> Perhaps the frame rate was slightly improved

L345[21:49:50] <hmw[at]> I will try to use Kopernicus and clone Kerbin without oceans, who knows what Scatterer is really doing :)

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L350[22:37:26] <TristenKSP> I exist

L351[22:42:07] <UmbralRaptop> [citation needed]

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L353[22:42:21] <UmbralRaptop> [disputed - discuss]

L354[22:45:03] <TristenKSP> what

L355[22:45:43] <UmbralRaptop> applying wikipedia style tags to the statement

L356[22:51:31] <TristenKSP> why

L357[22:51:51] <hmw[at]> I totally see the point :)

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L359[22:54:18] <UmbralRaptop> silliness

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