OCLogs: 2020-10-29.log

Stuff goes here

L1[00:03:44] ⇦ Quits: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L2[00:49:02] ⇦ Quits: sandbox (~sandbox@host-78-147-178-253.as13285.net) (Quit: Leaving)

L3[01:08:50] ⇦ Quits: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@96.59.118.31) (Quit: Going offline, see ya! (www.Kerbaltek.com))

L4[01:23:59] ⇨ Joins: FltAdmVonSpiz_ (~chatzilla@cpc102018-bagu16-2-0-cust432.1-3.cable.virginm.net)

L5[01:24:44] ⇦ Quits: FltAdmVonSpiz (~chatzilla@cpc102018-bagu16-2-0-cust432.1-3.cable.virginm.net) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L6[01:24:53] *** FltAdmVonSpiz_ is now known as FltAdmVonSpiz

L7[01:35:49] ⇨ Joins: eriophora (~Christine@cpe-66-108-18-122.nyc.res.rr.com)

L8[01:35:49] ChanServ sets mode: +v on eriophora

L9[02:14:53] ⇨ Joins: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com)

L10[02:32:02] ⇨ Joins: nasonfish (~nasonfish@c-75-71-32-29.hsd1.co.comcast.net)

L11[02:44:30] ⇦ Quits: NicknameHere (uid148430@id-148430.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L12[02:50:19] ⇦ Quits: Tank2333 (~Tank2333@p5ddaaa27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L13[03:08:12] ⇨ Joins: jbos (~jbos@2001:420:c0c8:1004::14e)

L14[03:23:10] ⇦ Quits: geraldbrent (~quassel@adsl-69-227-25-150.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) (Quit: Nathan Explosion: Idea for song: 'Mur-' 'Murder'. A guy- a guy gets murdered. And eaten. At an all... you can eat buffet.)

L15[03:23:27] ⇨ Joins: geraldbrent (~quassel@adsl-69-227-25-150.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net)

L16[03:28:30] ⇦ Quits: jbos (~jbos@2001:420:c0c8:1004::14e) (Quit: X)

L17[04:35:18] ⇦ Quits: nasonfish (~nasonfish@c-75-71-32-29.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)

L18[04:40:57] ⇨ Joins: Wastl4 (~Wastl2@dynamic-077-011-133-161.77.11.pool.telefonica.de)

L19[04:43:15] ⇦ Quits: Wastl2 (~Wastl2@dynamic-077-013-135-046.77.13.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L20[04:44:21] ⇨ Joins: TheFootDoctor (webchat@host-67-45-96-33.hnremote.net)

L21[04:44:41] <TheFootDoctor> Hi future friends

L22[04:45:07] ⇦ Quits: TheFootDoctor (webchat@host-67-45-96-33.hnremote.net) (Client Quit)

L23[04:45:57] <raptop> 46 seconds

L24[04:46:25] <umaxtu> really feeling the friendship

L25[05:05:24] ⇨ Joins: Althego (~Althego@86FF4204.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)

L26[05:33:51] ⇨ Joins: Lyneira (~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:5127:b6df:c06f:a050)

L27[05:34:44] ⇦ Quits: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L28[06:29:16] ⇨ Joins: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com)

L29[06:30:21] ⇨ Joins: Deddly (~MrNiceGuy@83-219-206-219.cust.bredband2.com)

L30[06:30:21] ChanServ sets mode: +o on Deddly

L31[06:31:16] <a_flayer> i'm tired

L32[06:33:46] ⇦ Quits: eriophora (~Christine@cpe-66-108-18-122.nyc.res.rr.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L33[06:36:19] ⇨ Joins: darsie (~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)

L34[06:45:58] <Deddly> What for?

L35[07:34:18] ⇦ Quits: sasamj (uid193032@id-193032.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L36[07:59:50] ⇦ Quits: Lyneira (~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:5127:b6df:c06f:a050) (Quit: Bye)

L37[08:00:42] ⇨ Joins: Lyneira (~lyneira@2001:984:484e:1:4d4:8257:ce00:bee5)

L38[08:49:54] ⇦ Quits: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L39[08:51:19] ⇦ Quits: Deddly (~MrNiceGuy@83-219-206-219.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)

L40[08:53:02] ⇨ Joins: ergZay (~ergZay@c-98-210-50-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)

L41[09:05:53] ⇦ Quits: raptop (~Newpa_Has@172.58.191.110) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)

L42[09:24:16] <Althego> hehe voodoo electronics vs curiousmarc, the voodoo electornics are winning

L43[09:34:44] ⇦ Quits: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L44[09:48:04] ⇨ Joins: Deddly (~MrNiceGuy@83-219-206-219.cust.bredband2.com)

L45[09:48:04] ChanServ sets mode: +o on Deddly

L46[10:17:58] ⇨ Joins: sandbox (~sandbox@host-78-147-178-253.as13285.net)

L47[10:25:36] ⇦ Quits: ergZay (~ergZay@c-98-210-50-216.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)

L48[11:04:06] ⇨ Joins: NicknameHere (uid148430@id-148430.stonehaven.irccloud.com)

L49[12:00:16] ⇨ Joins: FLHerne_ (~flh@86.10.122.80)

L50[12:14:43] ⇨ Joins: Blu3wolf (~blue@122-148-255-108.sta.dodo.net.au)

L51[12:32:59] ⇦ Quits: Deddly (~MrNiceGuy@83-219-206-219.cust.bredband2.com) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)

L52[12:57:11] ⇨ Joins: Guest69325 (webchat@16.211.187.199.wiredns.net)

L53[13:21:32] ⇨ Joins: kubi (~kubi@2001:1ba8:1130:f200:7a24:afff:fe8a:84f7)

L54[13:23:06] ⇦ Quits: kubi (~kubi@2001:1ba8:1130:f200:7a24:afff:fe8a:84f7) (Remote host closed the connection)

L55[13:23:53] ⇨ Joins: kubi (~kubi@2001:1ba8:1130:f200:7a24:afff:fe8a:84f7)

L56[13:56:20] ⇨ Joins: sasamj (uid193032@id-193032.charlton.irccloud.com)

L57[14:15:40] ⇦ Quits: Blu3wolf (~blue@122-148-255-108.sta.dodo.net.au) (Quit: Konversation terminated!)

L58[14:30:21] ⇦ Quits: Lyneira (~lyneira@2001:984:484e:1:4d4:8257:ce00:bee5) (Quit: Bye)

L59[14:31:03] ⇨ Joins: Lyneira (~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:7126:946f:c3e:75cd)

L60[15:00:16] <Guest69325> S O

L61[15:00:34] ⇨ Joins: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com)

L62[15:02:48] <Guest69325> I'm attempting to complete the docking tutorial and whenever I burn retrograde to target (exactly when directed) I only end up with my perfect intercept (2km or less) becoming a hugely eccentric 400km orbit

L63[15:03:29] <Guest69325> of all the things in the game, this is the single most difficult process I have attempted

L64[15:10:18] <packbart> hm. then you're burning too much ;) I don't really have a good answer but I think you'd need to switch the navball to "target", then burn target-retrograde until the speed reads about 0m/s

L65[15:11:07] ⇦ Quits: Torgo (~Karl@108-82-241-32.lightspeed.sgnwmi.sbcglobal.net) (Ping timeout: 378 seconds)

L66[15:18:05] <FLHerne_> Guest69325: When is directed? You should only try to zero your velocity with the target when you're effectively at the intercept

L67[15:18:49] <FLHerne_> And the resulting orbit will then inherently be near-identical to the target's, because you have the same velocity and about the same position

L68[15:18:54] *** FLHerne_ is now known as FLHerne

L69[15:27:52] ⇦ Quits: Wastl4 (~Wastl2@dynamic-077-011-133-161.77.11.pool.telefonica.de) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L70[15:30:25] ⇨ Joins: Wastl2 (~Wastl2@dynamic-077-013-071-164.77.13.pool.telefonica.de)

L71[15:35:45] ⇨ Joins: KrazyKrl (~Karl@2600:1702:3210:6d9f:689a:207:4f51:8a85)

L72[15:40:15] <Guest69325> packbart...that's exactly what I described doing. my speed relative to target omly dropped by 500m/s

L73[15:41:31] <Guest69325> flherne_ the tutorial says burn retrograde at 15km away, I'm unsure how to determine this distance

L74[15:42:30] <Guest69325> without measuring speed of target and the time it takes to orbit I know of no way to check your distance from target

L75[15:44:20] <Guest69325> also someone in a forum commented on using mechjeb and watching it rendezvous and dock to learn, I added it and it appears to interpret "rendezvous" as "crash into planet 2000km from target"

L76[15:45:28] <umaxtu> if you've selected the rondevouz target as the target, you should see a pink/magenta indicator that shows the direction and distance to the target

L77[15:46:02] <Guest69325> i can see that being a result of my lack of familiarity with mechjeb, I found that I had to take over for it when I tried to use the ascent assistnace

L78[15:46:42] <umaxtu> I was talking about vanilla

L79[15:47:19] <Guest69325> the magenta indicator shows my separation at target orbit, but that number never seems near to the actual separation of the vessels

L80[15:47:41] <Guest69325> so am I, I only tried mechjeb to try to learn from it

L81[15:47:41] <umaxtu> screenshot?

L82[15:47:54] <Guest69325> oh you can load those here?

L83[15:48:14] <Guest69325> hold on

L84[15:48:19] <packbart> same as in the forum, you'd need to use imgur.com or similar and post a link ;)

L85[15:48:57] <Althego> hah, progress. not the previous eve launcher failed to start. now i cant even isntall it

L86[15:49:44] <packbart> EVE Online destroys lives ;)

L87[15:49:50] ⇨ Joins: Ezriilc (~Ezriilc@96.59.118.31)

L88[15:55:26] <FLHerne> Guest69325: "burn retrograde at 15km away" sounds like a very bad idea to me

L89[15:55:55] <FLHerne> I've not played this tutorial, but I suspect you've misunderstood something -- otherwise it's just wrong :p

L90[15:57:18] <FLHerne> Guest69325: Wait until you (and the target vessel) are a few seconds before the intercept

L91[15:58:09] <FLHerne> At that point, your velocity relative to the target should be within like 100m/s or so if you're in vaguely similar orbits

L92[15:58:53] <FLHerne> Burn retrograde relative to the target until the relative velocity is 0

L93[15:59:15] <FLHerne> Then turn to accelerate toward the target, or just use RCS, depending on the distance

L94[16:10:53] <Guest69325> making an imgur acct is taking ages

L95[16:11:36] <Althego> scott

L96[16:12:57] <packbart> Guest69325: you don't have to. they allow anonymous uploads

L97[16:13:11] <packbart> just click the "new post" button at the top

L98[16:14:15] <Guest69325> the tutorial said "for now, lets wait until we're about 15km away from the target. Once there make sure the navball is in target mode so it displays the right info, turn retrograde and burn at full throttle

L99[16:14:31] <Guest69325> also imgur said I had to make an acct wtf

L100[16:15:17] <Guest69325> ah, it redirected me and didn't tell me my images were posted

L101[16:16:14] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/ebVdStp

L102[16:16:18] <packbart> I guess the intention of that step is to take almost the same orbit as the target before getting closer

L103[16:16:28] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/qQwZYdE

L104[16:16:47] <Guest69325> that's the process there

L105[16:16:47] <umaxtu> when you get close, you should see an indicator outside of map view

L106[16:16:58] <Guest69325> I've never seen it

L107[16:17:16] <Guest69325> it always sends me too far from the target

L108[16:17:42] <packbart> the manuever in the first image looks good to me

L109[16:18:49] <packbart> the orange (or purple) markers are close together. that's the point where you need to align your orbit with the target's

L110[16:18:53] <Guest69325> this is frustrating as I have stations over seversal planets that need support for battery life and science , not to mention they each only have a few of my worst kerbals

L111[16:19:05] <Guest69325> yees, I tried to

L112[16:19:37] <Guest69325> i HAD been trying to dock with my own ship from an almost identical orbit

L113[16:20:05] <Guest69325> I found that I couldn't geet under 9 km so I tried the tutorial and it only led to more confusion

L114[16:20:22] <umaxtu> have you tried watching any video tutorials?

L115[16:20:33] <Guest69325> sorry to seem like such an idiot

L116[16:20:34] <packbart> well, 9km is fine for the first approach as long as you get your target-relative speed down

L117[16:20:39] <Guest69325> oh yes I have

L118[16:20:51] <Guest69325> scott manley's made it worse

L119[16:20:56] <Althego> docking is hard when you are new to it

L120[16:21:02] <Guest69325> i tried and I landed

L121[16:21:09] <Guest69325> with force

L122[16:21:17] <Guest69325> unintentionally

L123[16:21:27] <Althego> i remember my first docking took me an hour and was sweating when i finished it

L124[16:21:40] <Guest69325> althego thtat's what she said :/

L125[16:21:50] <packbart> hm. putting a maneuver node at the intercept is tricky. nodes don't have "target-retrograde" handles

L126[16:22:23] <Guest69325> yeah

L127[16:22:24] <packbart> you could try and see what MechJeb does. with the situation in the last image, I'd use "match target velocity" from the maneuver planner menu

L128[16:22:36] <packbart> it _should_ not crash into the ground at that point

L129[16:22:44] <Guest69325> i figurwed switching sas to anti target/retrograde would work

L130[16:23:00] <Guest69325> oh you don't want to know

L131[16:23:32] <packbart> MJ has some trouble with the initial transfer at low orbits. sometimes it dips into the atmosphere. MJ does need supervision :)

L132[16:23:45] <Guest69325> i tried to learn from mechjeb and it expertly circularised at 40k above the target then turned hard into the atmosphere

L133[16:24:11] <Guest69325> I learned to basically never trust mj

L134[16:24:22] <packbart> yeah. but from this position: https://i.imgur.com/i4E69Gf.jpeg the "match velocities" maneuver should work

L135[16:24:48] <packbart> it puts a node at the intercept with the right vector to align the orbits

L136[16:25:02] <Guest69325> hm.

L137[16:25:10] <Althego> hehe this was funny, they found the engine problem for the gps falcon 9 launch, it was a manufacturing problem, and many other engines have the same issue

L138[16:25:13] <packbart> oh. wait

L139[16:25:16] <Althego> at least they got it in time

L140[16:25:25] <packbart> I think you're going the wrong way, maybe?

L141[16:25:31] <packbart> hm

L142[16:25:33] <Guest69325> oh...?

L143[16:25:36] <Althego> hehe

L144[16:25:45] <Althego> happened to me in many missions

L145[16:25:48] <Guest69325> the tutorial puts you in an orbit

L146[16:25:54] <Guest69325> so

L147[16:26:00] <Althego> when the target kerbal or debris was in retrograde

L148[16:26:02] <packbart> ah. hm. maybe I'm misinterpreting the orbit line

L149[16:26:09] <packbart> no, you're good

L150[16:26:22] * packbart needs to check eyes :)

L151[16:26:27] <packbart> sorry for the added confusion

L152[16:26:57] <Guest69325> what I really waantesd to do was dock the two larger ring stations I have but I can't get past their tutorial so I figured I'd best not chance it

L153[16:27:07] <packbart> I was wondering about the 716m/s speed difference

L154[16:27:24] <Guest69325> I can't type to save my life

L155[16:27:54] <Guest69325> i did have a 3000m/s speed difference last time

L156[16:28:02] <Althego> pfff

L157[16:28:09] <Guest69325> so I figure I'm makingg progress

L158[16:28:17] <packbart> :)

L159[16:28:21] <Guest69325> cue facepalm

L160[16:28:44] <Guest69325> /runfacepalm

L161[16:28:50] ⇦ Quits: jinks (~jinks@2001:470:1f18:3aa:1d8:0:1c:34ac) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)

L162[16:29:16] <packbart> anyway, from the images, I'd say it should work. warp to the intercept or shortly before, burn target-retrograde until the difference gets close to 0m/s (it won't stay at 0, anyway, that's normal)

L163[16:29:57] <Guest69325> that's the bugger

L164[16:30:10] <packbart> then point at the target, burn a little, turn retrograde. maybe repeat. (if the planes are mis-aligned too much, that might not work well at the first attempt)

L165[16:30:26] <Guest69325> burning target retrograde is what keeps ruining my intercept

L166[16:30:44] <packbart> _unless_ your control point does not point along the thrust vector. but that shouldn't happen in a tutorial

L167[16:30:48] ⇨ Joins: jinks (~jinks@104.161.79.77)

L168[16:31:08] <Guest69325> I can reliably get less than a km separation at intercept

L169[16:31:20] <Guest69325> it's all the burning retrograde

L170[16:31:44] <Althego> but then it shouldnt be too hard

L171[16:31:59] <Guest69325> exactly so why is it

L172[16:32:32] <Althego> usually the hard part is to get a close enough rendezvous

L173[16:33:10] <Guest69325> hmph

L174[16:33:13] <Althego> if you have that, if you are just 1-2 km away, you have to cancel the target relative velocity, and therefore you will be in around the same orbit

L175[16:33:35] <Guest69325> my rendezvous is usually spot on

L176[16:34:40] <Guest69325> it's burning retrograde at 15km that undoes all the work I did to rendezvous. i tried burning when I was within visual range and I crashed

L177[16:34:48] <Guest69325> a a a

L178[16:35:17] <packbart> can't start KSP at the moment (still at work ;) so I can't look at the tutorial. I guess it's just a small thing that's off. hm.

L179[16:35:34] <Guest69325> HRM

L180[16:35:46] <Althego> you know what, i already finished work, i can start it up

L181[16:36:07] <packbart> it's probably just a command pod on a stick, isn't it? some other docking ports sticking out at other directions

L182[16:36:30] <packbart> if the command pod is not the "control from here" part, that's the only thing I can think of

L183[16:37:02] <Althego> but why would they mess with a rookie

L184[16:37:06] <Guest69325> eh

L185[16:37:10] <packbart> then your "retrograde" would not be the direction the engines would point at

L186[16:37:18] <Guest69325> on a podrcket

L187[16:37:32] <Guest69325> and hm

L188[16:37:47] <FLHerne> Guest69325: Do NOT burn retrograde at 15km, it won't work. "within visual range" should be fine, just try not to actually hit the target :p

L189[16:38:20] <Guest69325> *broadsides target, knocks both vessels into atmosphere*

L190[16:38:23] <Guest69325> lol

L191[16:38:25] <FLHerne> ha

L192[16:38:27] <packbart> ("hitting the target" is another thing, MechJeb ist very good at. it likes the 0.00km separation rendezvous ;)

L193[16:38:41] <FLHerne> I have done that once or twice

L194[16:38:58] <FLHerne> But it's unusual to get that precise a rendezvous

L195[16:39:05] <FLHerne> (unless you are using MJ)

L196[16:39:12] <Guest69325> wow lol I was kidding

L197[16:39:16] <umaxtu> I had a station that had a sectional like an american footbal field goal. mechjeb scored me an orbital field goal

L198[16:39:20] <Guest69325> geez lol

L199[16:39:44] <Guest69325> umaztu um?

L200[16:40:37] <Guest69325> i'm envisioning an enormous couch

L201[16:41:15] <umaxtu> maybe I'm not using the right terminology, I'm not a sports person

L202[16:41:36] ⇦ Quits: KrazyKrl (~Karl@2600:1702:3210:6d9f:689a:207:4f51:8a85) (Killed (NickServ (GHOST command used by Torgo)))

L203[16:41:46] ⇨ Joins: KrazyKrl (~Karl@2600:1702:3210:6d9f:689a:207:4f51:8a85)

L204[16:45:15] <Althego> nothing strange here

L205[16:45:20] <Althego> pretty straightforward craft

L206[16:45:25] <Althego> maybe a a bit low twr

L207[16:45:50] <Althego> i can make a video of the docking in a few minutes

L208[16:46:11] <Guest69325> lol no the sectional

L209[16:46:20] <Guest69325> that's a type of couch

L210[16:46:37] <Guest69325> what's twr

L211[16:46:41] <Guest69325> oh duh nvm

L212[16:47:04] <Guest69325> I just started playing a few weeks ago

L213[16:47:15] <Guest69325> -_-

L214[16:48:43] <a_flayer> i stopped playing a few weeks ago

L215[16:49:08] <a_flayer> after a few encounters, you'll learn how to do it by feel

L216[16:57:42] <Guest69325> isn't 23 houurs of attempting the same thing "a few encounters" worth

L217[16:58:24] <Guest69325> to be fair I was burning at 15km as the tutorial instructed

L218[16:58:52] <Guest69325> and following directions appears to get you nowhere in this game

L219[17:04:47] <a_flayer> just give it some thought it plays out really easily once you understand the mechanics of the game

L220[17:06:11] <a_flayer> use a slightly lower orbit to catch up, a slightly higher orbit to slow down (relative to the target)

L221[17:06:55] <a_flayer> once you're within a few kilometers, you can just burn towards the target and then turn around and gradually slow down as you try to align your direction with the target

L222[17:07:42] <a_flayer> (align the two crosses on the indicator hub thingie at the bottom of the screen)

L223[17:08:24] <a_flayer> its not the most efficient way, but it is really easy if you have a few delta-Vs to spare

L224[17:09:31] <Althego> hehe i forgot to open the docking port. i usually use the normal ones

L225[17:09:49] * a_flayer bumps

L226[17:10:48] <Althego> http://warpology.com/k/docking.mp4

L227[17:12:21] <a_flayer> i'm kind of excited for KSP2

L228[17:12:50] <Althego> as usual docking always happens on the night side

L229[17:13:04] <a_flayer> *sighs*

L230[17:13:21] <a_flayer> that's really my biggest problem--figuring out how to do stuff on the light side of planets

L231[17:13:39] <a_flayer> from aerobraking/landing on duna to returning from the mun, you know?

L232[17:13:47] <a_flayer> every time its on the wrong side lol

L233[17:14:16] <Althego> actually that was the primary reson of the timing of the apollo lunar orbit rendezvous. the lighting was really important

L234[17:14:37] <a_flayer> uh-huh

L235[17:15:06] <a_flayer> you definitely don't want to dock IRL at night, especially in the 1960s

L236[17:15:24] <a_flayer> nowadays its just computers anyway

L237[17:15:25] <a_flayer> but yeah

L238[17:15:35] <Althego> it is also important that the sun doesnt shine in the pilot's eyes

L239[17:28:08] ⇦ Quits: Althego (~Althego@86FF4204.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station Mercury)

L240[17:29:22] ⇨ Joins: Althego (~Althego@86FF4204.dsl.pool.telekom.hu)

L241[17:39:52] <Guest69325> alright

L242[17:40:50] <Althego> i put this video there http://warpology.com/k/docking.mp4

L243[17:40:59] <Althego> the tutorial dosnt contain any tricks

L244[17:41:26] <Guest69325> it looked like you were mostly trying to line up the maneuver, yet somehow you were just AT 0.5 m/s without doing anything? also you left one of your maneuvers with 16.3m/s left to burn,

L245[17:41:45] <Althego> there was a point where i wanted to target my craft with the other craft

L246[17:41:57] <Guest69325> hm?

L247[17:41:59] <Althego> and the context menu7 didnt want to show

L248[17:42:10] <Althego> so that both point towards each other

L249[17:42:18] <Guest69325> oh yes

L250[17:42:51] <Althego> and in the finishing part the important thing is to keep some velocity to finally close in on the target

L251[17:43:08] <Guest69325> so how were you at 0.5 m/s just coming out of map view

L252[17:43:42] <Guest69325> I didn't see you burn retro at all until tge last minute and you were at 0.5m/s already at that time'

L253[17:44:22] <Althego> ah the map view doesnt show the burn

L254[17:44:35] <Guest69325> somehow I've understood everything you said yet stilldon't quite understand what I'm doing wrong

L255[17:44:42] <Guest69325> oh

L256[17:45:10] <Guest69325> i'm feeling more and more the fool here

L257[17:45:13] <Althego> after 8:42 there is a small burn that changes the remaining speed from 4 to 0.5

L258[17:45:24] <Althego> this is not simple

L259[17:45:24] <Guest69325> ok

L260[17:45:30] <Althego> even nasa failed it at the first time

L261[17:45:35] <Guest69325> but how did you get to 4

L262[17:46:00] <Guest69325> cos I keep seeing digits in the 900's

L263[17:46:10] <Guest69325> 1300 max

L264[17:47:08] <Guest69325> and yeah but i'm used to getting the complex things and totally missing the simple ones so this is especially vexing

L265[17:48:04] <Guest69325> also is warpology something like imgur, or?

L266[17:48:10] <FLHerne> Guest69325: The velocity difference will get smaller the closer you are to the target

L267[17:48:19] <Althego> no, that is mine

L268[17:48:25] <FLHerne> The residual difference depends on how different your orbits are

L269[17:48:48] <Althego> easier to upload to my plaace thant to some other platform

L270[17:49:01] <FLHerne> i.e. if you're in an identical orbit to the target, and right next to it, the relative velocity is 0

L271[17:49:06] <Guest69325> oh, brilliant

L272[17:49:12] <FLHerne> (if it wasn't 0, you'd be in a different orbit)

L273[17:49:41] <FLHerne> But if you're in an identical orbit but on exactly the opposite side of the planet, it's 2x <orbital velocity>

L274[17:49:42] <Althego> and that is the problem with docking. if you want to go closer, you will eb in a different, which will eventually take you farther

L275[17:49:52] <FLHerne> Because you're going in the opposite direction

L276[17:50:31] <Guest69325> so is this acceptable?

L277[17:50:33] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/signin?redirect=%2Fa%2FpOo7hfS

L278[17:50:59] <Guest69325> eb?

L279[17:50:59] <Althego> hehe wrong link

L280[17:51:01] <FLHerne> Which is why you should never try maneuvering according to relative velocity unless you're right next to something -- the numbers just aren't helpful

L281[17:51:01] <Althego> be

L282[17:51:18] <FLHerne> (direction even more so)

L283[17:51:19] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/pOo7hfS

L284[17:51:29] <Guest69325> Lord, it's got poo in.

L285[17:51:44] <FLHerne> ???

L286[17:51:57] <Guest69325> +the link has got poo in

L287[17:52:10] <Althego> this is far from optimal rendezvous, that is why you have so high numbers

L288[17:52:30] <FLHerne> That'll be quite a high-Δv intercept with the massive radial change

L289[17:52:33] <FLHerne> It might work

L290[17:52:35] <Althego> you are going almost perpendicular to the target craft at the rendezvous point

L291[17:53:15] <Althego> and when you get close to the target

L292[17:53:21] <Guest69325> that's ambiguous, my readings are hgih bc I'm too far? or I'm too far from the craft at the point of rendezvous

L293[17:53:30] <FLHerne> Guest69325: neither :p

L294[17:53:43] <Guest69325> lovely...

L295[17:53:47] <Althego> seletc the target mnode as it is now, and burn towards the retrograde marker, which is at the bottom now

L296[17:54:00] <Guest69325> \ /

L297[17:54:11] <Guest69325> o _ o

L298[17:54:11] <Althego> but only when you are close enough

L299[17:54:22] <Guest69325> I see'

L300[17:54:37] <Althego> but the red bar says not enough fuel

L301[17:54:42] <a_flayer> ideally, you want the periapsis/apoapsis no more than 10-15 km apart from the target

L302[17:54:45] <FLHerne> Guest69325: You should aim for intercepts to be roughly parallel with the target orbit, so you don't need a huge and inefficient maneuver

L303[17:54:58] * FLHerne can play KSP now :p

L304[17:54:58] <Althego> that is called the hohmann transfer

L305[17:55:30] <Althego> basically a very low delta v method

L306[17:55:31] <Guest69325> out, and back in, style of thing?

L307[17:55:32] ⇨ Joins: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com)

L308[17:55:41] <Guest69325> if I remember correctly

L309[17:55:49] <FLHerne> Is this the 'Docking' tutorial?

L310[17:55:52] <Guest69325> yes

L311[17:56:24] <Althego> so what do you do after the picture was taken,

L312[17:56:25] <Althego> ?

L313[17:56:44] <Guest69325> biggest issues are the instructions wanted me to burn retro to target at 15km and I'm a fucking idiot

L314[17:56:58] <Guest69325> I paused the game, what else?

L315[17:57:24] <Althego> yes but how do you try to do the maneuver

L316[17:57:25] <a_flayer> i would revert this game

L317[17:57:46] <Guest69325> it's a tutorial not an entire game

L318[17:58:38] <Guest69325> this has been three bloody hours over this lol

L319[17:58:44] <Althego> hehe

L320[17:59:12] <a_flayer> just launch into an orbit no more than 15 km divergent from the target

L321[17:59:15] <a_flayer> then you'll be OK

L322[17:59:19] <Althego> heeh

L323[17:59:24] <Guest69325> um?

L324[17:59:27] <Althego> this is not about that

L325[17:59:31] <FLHerne> Guest69325: So you've done the inclination burn ok?

L326[17:59:40] <Guest69325> yes

L327[17:59:41] <Althego> if you have different orbits already, how to meet up

L328[18:00:27] <Guest69325> my inclination is always 0.0 , I'm very exact about evrything, I just don't understand this

L329[18:01:00] <Althego> obviously something is missing what we dont get about what you do

L330[18:01:08] <Guest69325> xD here I go again I'll record it this time

L331[18:01:33] <a_flayer> circle around kerbin a few times to catch up

L332[18:01:34] <Guest69325> obviously something I don't get about what you're saying, more like

L333[18:01:43] <a_flayer> don't just burn directly towards the target

L334[18:02:03] <Althego> that is only working when you are a few km apart

L335[18:02:17] <Guest69325> i have advice coming from several directions and i'm unsure who to listen to

L336[18:02:52] <Guest69325> a a a a a a a a a

L337[18:03:19] <Guest69325> apropos of nothing

L338[18:03:41] <Guest69325> mechjeb is now mr.roboto

L339[18:04:01] <Guest69325> personal opinion

L340[18:04:09] <Guest69325> poorly stated

L341[18:06:07] ⇦ Quits: armed_troop (~armedtroo@pool-98-115-168-15.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) (Quit: Bye)

L342[18:07:45] ⇨ Joins: armed_troop (~armedtroo@pool-98-115-168-15.phlapa.fios.verizon.net)

L343[18:09:47] <Guest69325> ok it may be a min I just forgot to aim at the maneuver

L344[18:19:25] ⇨ Joins: jazzkutya (~jazzkutya@catv-80-98-192-241.catv.broadband.hu)

L345[18:22:15] <FLHerne> It actually does say the 15km thing http://www.flherne.uk/files/Screenshot_20201029_182153.png

L346[18:22:18] <FLHerne> wtf?

L347[18:24:14] <Althego> who reads these anyway

L348[18:24:15] <packbart> for the first approach, I think that's ok (at 50m/s, too)

L349[18:26:10] <Guest69325> my file is too large for imgur what do I use

L350[18:27:04] <Guest69325> I recorded what I've been doing

L351[18:27:06] <Mat2ch> uhm, if it's too large for imgur, it's probably too large for us all, too. :D

L352[18:27:11] <Mat2ch> Just scale it down

L353[18:27:15] <Guest69325> how

L354[18:27:31] <FLHerne> Guest69325: The rendezvous you ideally want is something like http://www.flherne.uk/files/Screenshot_20201029_181358.png

L355[18:27:43] <Guest69325> idk how to comp[ress te filetype

L356[18:28:24] <Althego> actually we dont need the beginning. we know you can get the rendezvous

L357[18:28:30] <Althego> the issue is, what you do after that

L358[18:28:31] <Guest69325> FLHerne_ well fucco mode

L359[18:28:40] ⇨ Joins: jazzkutya_ (~jazzkutya@catv-80-98-192-241.catv.broadband.hu)

L360[18:28:46] <Guest69325> that's what I'm trying to show you

L361[18:30:15] <FLHerne> Althego: Well, that 90° one was going to be pretty awkward

L362[18:30:30] <FLHerne> Even if there's enough fuel for it, you'd have to get the timing spot-on

L363[18:30:39] <FLHerne> (or spend ages faffing about afterward)

L364[18:30:59] <Guest69325> I got a better one but idk where to put the compressed fiel'

L365[18:31:02] <Guest69325> file

L366[18:31:04] ⇨ Joins: JVFoxy (webchat@d64-180-231-180.bchsia.telus.net)

L367[18:31:09] <FLHerne> How big is it?

L368[18:31:17] <Guest69325> heh

L369[18:31:21] <Guest69325> um

L370[18:31:28] <Althego> hehe

L371[18:31:45] <Guest69325> enormous

L372[18:31:51] <JVFoxy> Uhh... what a question to pop into the channel on. c.c;

L373[18:31:55] ⇦ Quits: jazzkutya (~jazzkutya@catv-80-98-192-241.catv.broadband.hu) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L374[18:31:57] <Guest69325> but I'm coming right at it

L375[18:32:10] <Guest69325> i'd say 40 degrees

L376[18:33:33] <JVFoxy> planet.. moon?

L377[18:33:46] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/Kgs5VvD

L378[18:34:03] <Guest69325> that's no moon

L379[18:34:22] <Althego> so nice rendezvous

L380[18:34:25] <Althego> what do you do next

L381[18:34:42] * a_flayer giggles

L382[18:34:50] <Guest69325> I STILL DON'T KNOW I'M NOT PREPARED FOR FAILURE ;_;

L383[18:34:55] <JVFoxy> .... sorta screen you running? 360?

L384[18:34:56] <Guest69325> ;-;

L385[18:35:02] <Althego> looks like 3 screen setup

L386[18:35:06] <Guest69325> yep

L387[18:35:10] <a_flayer> you're not going to make it though

L388[18:35:14] <Guest69325> 3 scren

L389[18:35:19] <a_flayer> you need more delta-v than you have available

L390[18:35:35] <Althego> yes, that is why follow the hohmann transfer

L391[18:35:42] <Althego> dont but as soon as you can

L392[18:35:44] <Guest69325> a_flayer party pooper -_-

L393[18:35:53] <Althego> but wait when you can do it with minimum fuel

L394[18:36:09] <JVFoxy> how does one get it to work on 3? Whenever I flip to my secondary, KSP is like, 'you hate me, good bye' c_C

L395[18:36:12] ⇦ Quits: KindOne (kindone@h19.76.155.207.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L396[18:36:13] <Althego> when you can get a rendezvous with the orbits touching

L397[18:36:19] <Althego> instead of intersecting like this

L398[18:36:45] <Guest69325> hmph

L399[18:36:57] <Althego> like this https://www.flherne.uk/files/Screenshot_20201029_181358.png

L400[18:37:01] ⇨ Joins: KindOne (~KindOne@h146.133.16.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)

L401[18:37:25] <Althego> this is basically what i did too

L402[18:37:34] <Althego> that is why the rendezvous happened on the night side

L403[18:38:44] <JVFoxy> trying to dock two ships in two elliptical orbits at different phase angles.. going to be some harsh burns there. Might help to first at least match orbits a bit more

L404[18:42:14] <JVFoxy> changing phase angles is pretty DV intensive, unless the top of your orbit is already pretty high.

L405[18:45:11] <JVFoxy> ugh... KSP withdrawal a thing? Been work'n a few things at friend's, don't have my big pc. :\

L406[18:46:53] <JVFoxy> ah well.. all the best..

L407[18:46:56] ⇦ Quits: JVFoxy (webchat@d64-180-231-180.bchsia.telus.net) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)

L408[18:49:19] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/oFkZXwt

L409[18:49:52] <Guest69325> is this closer

L410[18:50:12] <Guest69325> not the comically extreme one, the other one

L411[18:50:14] <Althego> yes this looks right

L412[18:50:33] <Guest69325> is 17.7 too far

L413[18:50:36] <Althego> althoug h17.7 km is a bit much

L414[18:50:57] <Guest69325> yeah well it started at 90

L415[18:51:02] <Guest69325> ;p

L416[18:51:48] <Guest69325> unsure how to close that distance. another few orbits?

L417[18:51:57] ⇨ Joins: Gasher (~Gasher@46.188.122.111)

L418[18:53:08] <Guest69325> also to "who reads these anyway"

L419[18:53:10] <Althego> so if you look at tit

L420[18:53:12] <Guest69325> I do

L421[18:53:18] <Guest69325> closely

L422[18:53:21] <Althego> up close

L423[18:53:25] <Guest69325> yes

L424[18:53:29] <Althego> are the orbits really toching?

L425[18:53:33] <FLHerne> You can usually get it close enough, just jiggle the node forward or backward and adjust the pro/retrograde accordingly

L426[18:53:35] <Althego> touching

L427[18:53:47] <Althego> if they do, just move the node a bit around

L428[18:54:02] <Guest69325> i finetuned from 90 to 17 and it wants to go no further

L429[18:54:24] <Althego> we not the arrows

L430[18:54:27] <Althego> but the node itself

L431[18:54:31] <Guest69325> they aren't

L432[18:54:51] <Guest69325> yes of course, the node itself

L433[18:55:07] <Guest69325> that's what I'm saying

L434[18:55:14] <Guest69325> HJKI9GJFGY

L435[18:55:47] <Guest69325> Shoe is back, but when will the other one drop

L436[18:56:11] <Althego> so if neither the pro and retrograde nor the moving of the node helps

L437[18:56:13] <Guest69325> lolol

L438[18:56:39] <Althego> then the normal and the anti normal could help

L439[18:57:12] <Guest69325> i was wary of those due to the inclination problems I had on early attempts

L440[18:57:14] <Althego> but in that case those would need a few m/s change only

L441[18:57:27] <FLHerne> Only if the inclination is off

L442[18:57:37] <FLHerne> And 17km would be quite noticeable

L443[18:57:44] <Althego> yes probably

L444[18:57:45] <Guest69325> inclination is 0.0

L445[18:57:50] <Althego> that is nice

L446[18:57:56] <Althego> then you dont need those

L447[18:58:08] <Guest69325> then...

L448[18:58:12] <Althego> then the pro and retrograde and the movement of the node is the solution

L449[18:58:34] <FLHerne> Tweaking radial/anti-radial can be a quick-and-dirty way to adjust the phasing slightly

L450[18:58:36] <Guest69325> both handles send the distance further up

L451[18:58:50] <Althego> i would probably add a bit of prograde until the orbits intersect instead of touching, and move the node until i get a small enough encounter

L452[18:58:53] <Guest69325> same with the radial nodes

L453[18:59:07] <Guest69325> I've tried all of this

L454[18:59:19] <Guest69325> yet at 117.7 I remain

L455[18:59:25] <Guest69325> 17.7

L456[18:59:34] <Althego> you know wht, not impoosible to salvage

L457[18:59:35] <FLHerne> Guest69325: You need to adjust multiple things at the same time sometimes, there's a knack :p

L458[18:59:37] <Althego> try it with this

L459[18:59:40] <Guest69325> big difference o.o

L460[18:59:42] ⇨ Joins: eriophora (~Christine@cpe-66-108-18-122.nyc.res.rr.com)

L461[18:59:42] ChanServ sets mode: +v on eriophora

L462[18:59:56] ⇦ Quits: Gasher (~Gasher@46.188.122.111) (Quit: Gasher)

L463[19:00:13] <Althego> it just means you need to burn a bit more during the close up

L464[19:00:27] <Guest69325> and that's not unsafe?

L465[19:00:41] <Althego> i bet the loss would be under 100 m/s

L466[19:00:42] <FLHerne> Guest69325: Adjust one thing, see which direction it gets further in, then adjust a different parameter to counteract that, etc...

L467[19:00:46] <Guest69325> not that safety is a particularly kerbal virtue

L468[19:03:19] ⇨ Joins: raptop (~Newpa_Has@172.58.191.84)

L469[19:03:19] ChanServ sets mode: +o on raptop

L470[19:04:39] <Guest69325> down to 14.8

L471[19:05:55] <Guest69325> correction, 12.6

L472[19:06:09] <Guest69325> ... now what o.0

L473[19:07:03] <FLHerne> Guest69325: I'd say make the burn, then play around with it afterward

L474[19:07:05] <Guest69325> 10k is the closet it gets now

L475[19:07:13] <Guest69325> yay

L476[19:07:18] <Althego> that is ok

L477[19:07:27] <Althego> you just need to cruise towrds it a bit longer

L478[19:07:27] <FLHerne> Unless you execute it perfectly, there'll be some error to correct anyway

L479[19:07:32] <Althego> which means more correction burns

L480[19:07:34] <Guest69325> thanks for helping for so long

L481[19:10:52] <Guest69325> hahahahahaaaa I accidentally burned for a few seconds without setting myself to target the maneuver and my margin of error took me down to 6.8km

L482[19:11:02] <Althego> hehe

L483[19:11:37] <Guest69325> I couldn't have done better myself

L484[19:11:42] <Guest69325> obviously

L485[19:11:48] <Guest69325> x3

L486[19:12:06] <Guest69325> so

L487[19:12:26] <Guest69325> shall i try my luck or should I keep trying to come closer in

L488[19:12:45] <Althego> are you already that close?

L489[19:13:10] <Guest69325> i'm still a long time from getting there but I will intercept at 6.8 km

L490[19:13:14] <Althego> you just need to keep the purple and green markers on each other with resonable speed

L491[19:13:25] <Guest69325> the wha?

L492[19:13:52] <Althego> the target position and your speed

L493[19:14:00] <Guest69325> i'm looking at blue green and orange

L494[19:14:06] <Althego> if your speed is point ing towards the target you will get there eventually

L495[19:14:09] <Guest69325> ah

L496[19:14:15] <Guest69325> um

L497[19:14:20] <Althego> but only when you get cose enough

L498[19:14:22] <Guest69325> what?

L499[19:14:56] <Guest69325> if my speed is pointing towards the target I will get there but only if I'm close enough

L500[19:15:02] <Althego> yes

L501[19:15:12] <Guest69325> o.O

L502[19:15:18] <Althego> because both of you are on elliptical orbits

L503[19:15:20] <Althego> which means

L504[19:15:25] <Guest69325> how can speed point towards a target

L505[19:15:30] <Guest69325> speed is a speed

L506[19:15:34] <Althego> ok, velocity

L507[19:15:36] <Althego> which is a vector

L508[19:16:17] <Althego> so this only works if you are really close, because of the orbits, any maneuver you do, will take you away from the target, even if you want to go towards it

L509[19:16:32] ⇦ Quits: KindOne (~KindOne@h146.133.16.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)

L510[19:16:52] <Guest69325> w h a t

L511[19:17:10] ⇨ Joins: KindOne (~KindOne@h173.223.16.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net)

L512[19:17:14] <Guest69325> so your'e saying I can only get farther awya'

L513[19:19:06] <Althego> say you are on the same orbit. behind the target. distance is constant. you burn towards the target to get closer. what happens? your orbit get higher and you get slower, so you start to go away. you burn retrograde. your speed increases as you drop below the target, but then you are not hitting it either.

L514[19:19:09] <Althego> stuff like this

L515[19:20:16] <FLHerne> I think there's a confusion :p

L516[19:20:25] <Althego> obviosuly

L517[19:20:33] <Guest69325> a ball of confusion

L518[19:20:51] <Althego> no such thing. but there is a cone of confusion :)

L519[19:20:58] <FLHerne> Althego: tbh, I have no idea what you're trying to say

L520[19:20:59] <Guest69325> ha

L521[19:21:12] <Guest69325> nor do I

L522[19:21:32] <Guest69325> I mean, sort of?

L523[19:21:38] <Althego> that straightforward simple maneuvers dont get you to your target when both of you are in orbit

L524[19:21:39] <FLHerne> Guest69325: It's probably worth adding a maneuver node and trying to get the intercept a little bit closer, IMO

L525[19:22:01] <Guest69325> thanks, FLHerne_

L526[19:22:50] <FLHerne> Althego: I'm not sure this addresses any relevant point :p

L527[19:22:58] <FLHerne> Maybe it does

L528[19:23:57] <FLHerne> Guest69325: You shouldn't try to maneuver directly relative to the target (burn towards it, away from it, retrograde from it, ...) until you're at or near the rendezvous

L529[19:24:00] <Althego> i was talking about, when you get close. you have to keep the prograde vector on the target. the mentioned effects try to move it away from it constantly. so you need many corrections

L530[19:24:45] <FLHerne> But course corrections are almost always better done sooner than later

L531[19:25:26] <Althego> but if you cant do it, like in this case, you need to keep cruising towards the target longer, with small correction

L532[19:25:29] <Guest69325> I got that bit

L533[19:25:46] <Guest69325> 4.8 so far'

L534[19:27:05] <Guest69325> these 0.2 second burns are a killer

L535[19:27:16] <Althego> you can right click the engine

L536[19:27:23] <Althego> and change maxium thrust

L537[19:27:26] <Althego> maximum

L538[19:27:42] <Althego> then your full throttle will be lot smaller, making your burns longer

L539[19:28:29] <Guest69325> yep

L540[19:28:30] <FLHerne> Remember you can use shift/ctrl to notch thrust up or down

L541[19:28:36] <Guest69325> or do shft

L542[19:28:39] <FLHerne> It's not all-or-nothing

L543[19:28:42] <Guest69325> yeah that

L544[19:28:54] <FLHerne> In some cases, both can be useful

L545[19:29:03] <Guest69325> I've been shifting

L546[19:35:05] ⇦ Quits: Pyrus (~pyrus@coffee-break.at) (*.net *.split)

L547[19:35:05] ⇦ Quits: mkalte (~mkalte@mkalte.me) (*.net *.split)

L548[19:35:05] ⇦ Quits: lol768 (lol768@galaxy.liefland.net) (*.net *.split)

L549[19:35:05] ⇦ Quits: phroa (~phroa@173.254.236.155) (*.net *.split)

L550[19:35:05] ⇦ Quits: tehbeard (~tehesper@208.80.10.200) (*.net *.split)

L551[19:35:13] <Althego> smallest split ever

L552[19:37:26] ⇨ Joins: phroa (~phroa@173.254.236.155)

L553[19:37:26] ChanServ sets mode: +v on phroa

L554[19:37:53] ⇨ Joins: Pyrus (~pyrus@coffee-break.at)

L555[19:37:53] ⇨ Joins: mkalte (~mkalte@mkalte.me)

L556[19:37:53] ⇨ Joins: lol768 (lol768@galaxy.liefland.net)

L557[19:37:53] ⇨ Joins: tehbeard (~tehesper@208.80.10.200)

L558[19:37:53] calamity.esper.net sets mode: +v on lol768

L559[19:40:24] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/MyJIdzR

L560[19:40:34] <Guest69325> so

L561[19:40:46] <Guest69325> we meet again

L562[19:40:51] <Guest69325> my old enemy

L563[19:40:55] <Guest69325> the klaw

L564[19:41:07] <Althego> this is nive

L565[19:41:10] <Althego> nice

L566[19:41:32] <Guest69325> haha yis

L567[19:41:48] <Guest69325> now I'm nervous to proceed

L568[19:42:01] <Althego> can you save in the training scenario?

L569[19:42:13] <Guest69325> I was thinking burn at 1 min

L570[19:42:16] <Guest69325> um

L571[19:42:24] <Guest69325> no

L572[19:42:28] <Althego> hehe

L573[19:42:33] <Althego> no problem

L574[19:42:38] <Althego> as long as you dont hit the target

L575[19:42:43] <Althego> with high speed

L576[19:42:50] <Guest69325> but I WANT to hit the target

L577[19:43:01] <Guest69325> g e n t l y

L578[19:43:18] <Guest69325> unlike the good night I will be going gently

L579[19:43:20] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puJ78rkXQ7w

L580[19:43:38] <Althego> oh i didnt think there would be a swear at the end

L581[19:43:47] <Guest69325> lolol

L582[19:44:14] <Guest69325> it's oki my mom showed me spaceballs when I was 6 bhaha

L583[19:44:27] <Guest69325> parenting 100

L584[19:44:33] <Althego> but against channel rules

L585[19:44:38] <Guest69325> o

L586[19:44:43] <Guest69325> welpo

L587[19:44:54] <Althego> not spaceballs, the swearing

L588[19:45:02] <Guest69325> LOLOL

L589[19:45:10] <Guest69325> spaceballs is illegal

L590[19:45:33] <Guest69325> the police are outside

L591[19:45:43] <Guest69325> r u n

L592[19:45:47] <Althego> so anyway even if you pass the target it is not a big problem

L593[19:46:14] <Guest69325> no but I'd rather not do it allover

L594[19:46:27] <Althego> but as you get closer you can slow down gradually

L595[19:46:45] <Guest69325> yes

L596[19:46:56] <Guest69325> which I am about to attempt

L597[19:47:13] <Guest69325> do you disagree with slowing down at t-1m

L598[19:47:38] <Guest69325> or do I find that out by crashing or not crashing

L599[19:47:43] <Althego> it depends on how soon you want to get there

L600[19:47:44] <Guest69325> nyehehe

L601[19:48:12] <Althego> but you can start to slow down there, maybe to 50 m/s

L602[19:48:22] <Guest69325> that's what I meant

L603[19:49:43] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/PpOLlFE

L604[19:53:25] <Guest69325> welp now I'm going 40m/s in relation to the craft but separation is 3.4km

L605[19:53:55] <Guest69325> do I just flip 'round and burn towards it

L606[19:54:00] <Althego> you can

L607[19:54:09] <Guest69325> or?

L608[19:54:14] <Althego> or wait

L609[19:54:25] <Guest69325> for the next orbit?

L610[19:54:50] <Althego> as long as ou keep the prograde vector on the target, eventually oypu get there

L611[19:54:53] <Althego> you

L612[19:54:57] <Guest69325> hm

L613[19:55:06] <Althego> but it will drift over time

L614[19:55:10] <FLHerne> Althego: Surely that's "flip 'round and burn towards it"

L615[19:55:12] <Guest69325> hmmm

L616[19:55:17] <Guest69325> how to i keep it

L617[19:56:13] <Althego> the nose of the craft attracts the prograde marker and repells the retrograde marker. so you can just move them with small burns if they are off

L618[19:56:20] <Guest69325> ah

L619[19:56:23] <Althego> but if you think it takes long you can speed up a bit

L620[19:56:42] <packbart> the eerie spider-station: https://c.radikal.ru/c43/2010/fa/bc58a7c15183.png (found on the forums)

L621[19:56:44] <Guest69325> i think I'm too close

L622[19:57:03] <Althego> at least it is not a kraken station

L623[19:57:23] <Guest69325> don'y click that it's spammy

L624[19:57:37] <packbart> nah, it's an image

L625[19:57:52] <Guest69325> well I got russian wpopups

L626[19:58:02] <Althego> yes o gpt spmething too

L627[19:58:05] <Althego> i got

L628[19:58:06] <packbart> interesting. huh. didn't happen to me

L629[19:58:10] <Althego> but closed them

L630[19:58:13] <packbart> sorry for that :/

L631[19:58:26] <packbart> I just found that picture on the forum. probably can't do any magic there

L632[19:58:35] <Guest69325> kraken station?

L633[19:58:40] <Guest69325> like

L634[19:59:02] <Guest69325> something enormous like the two I wanted to dock?

L635[19:59:12] <Guest69325> like

L636[19:59:29] <Althego> that too. but also if something is big, it also invites the kraken

L637[19:59:35] <Althego> basically bugs

L638[19:59:48] <Althego> that cause stuff to explode or overheat out of nowhere

L639[19:59:51] <Althego> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Deep_Space_Kraken

L640[20:00:34] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/nZMSf1a

L641[20:00:50] <Althego> not yet big :)

L642[20:01:37] <packbart> good struts, though :)

L643[20:01:52] <Althego> hehe i didnt notice

L644[20:01:57] <Althego> i was focusing on the payload

L645[20:02:17] <packbart> the two rules of KSP: if it doesn't move but should, add moar boosters. if it moves but shouldn't, add moar struts

L646[20:02:41] <Althego> wd-40 and duct tape

L647[20:03:18] <Guest69325> I find that the lifting rocket beneath the payload will take a n y t h i n g into space

L648[20:03:32] <Guest69325> now hold on

L649[20:03:39] <Guest69325> that's only half of it

L650[20:04:56] <Guest69325> tthere's a near-identical second half

L651[20:05:07] <Guest69325> with batteries and fesh

L652[20:06:09] <Guest69325> also apparently transmitting arrays work for aerobraking on duna

L653[20:07:02] <FLHerne> Right up until they overheat and burn off, anyway

L654[20:08:27] <Guest69325> no...

L655[20:10:33] <Guest69325> https://imgur.com/a/uyBojlI

L656[20:10:50] <Althego> lol

L657[20:10:57] <Guest69325> also the vessel whizzed by me at a mere 600m away

L658[20:11:10] <Althego> that is close

L659[20:11:22] <Althego> you just need to turn around and chase it

L660[20:11:26] <Guest69325> oh

L661[20:11:30] <Guest69325> um

L662[20:11:41] <Guest69325> i let it go by

L663[20:12:15] <Althego> why

L664[20:13:03] <Guest69325> I missed it I assumed I was screwed

L665[20:13:22] <Althego> if you are closer tha na few km you can always chase it

L666[20:13:57] <Guest69325> we have a new rdv at 0.8km

L667[20:14:14] <Guest69325> shall I let it get ahaed or leave it\

L668[20:15:12] ⇨ Joins: nasonfish (~nasonfish@c-75-71-32-29.hsd1.co.comcast.net)

L669[20:15:21] <Althego> get ahead?

L670[20:16:56] <Guest69325> great I did a spirale around it I think now i'mput of fuel

L671[20:17:01] <Althego> hehe

L672[20:17:07] <Althego> that is exactly what nasa did

L673[20:17:08] <Guest69325> hours of work for nothing

L674[20:17:23] <Althego> you could turn on infinite fuel

L675[20:17:25] <Guest69325> lhkjlhjlgj

L676[20:17:32] <Guest69325> fuck nasa

L677[20:17:36] <Althego> so that you can practice getting close

L678[20:17:36] <Guest69325> oh no

L679[20:18:06] <Guest69325> how?

L680[20:18:27] <Guest69325> how was I even supposed to get close it went right arond ,me

L681[20:18:50] <Althego> that was the thing i was talking about

L682[20:19:02] <Althego> you have to keep the prograde vector on it

L683[20:19:12] <Althego> because normally it will drift away

L684[20:19:33] <Guest69325> DID YOU WANT ME TO CHASE IT OR KEEP THE VECTOR ON IT IOJBIOH

L685[20:19:46] <Althego> keeping the cevtor on it is chasing it

L686[20:20:04] <Guest69325> I aimed towards the target and burned

L687[20:20:21] <Guest69325> was that wrong

L688[20:20:33] <Althego> no, not really, if you are close that works

L689[20:20:57] <Guest69325> it zoomed past and circled then gone

L690[20:21:04] <Guest69325> i was 300m

L691[20:21:10] <Guest69325> away

L692[20:21:13] <Althego> but when it was 300 m

L693[20:21:26] <Althego> the target indicator must have moved away from the prograde indicator

L694[20:21:42] <Althego> at that point you needed to move those together again

L695[20:21:47] <Guest69325> yeah I lost all of the indicators but target

L696[20:21:54] <Guest69325> omg how

L697[20:21:56] <Guest69325> ho0w

L698[20:21:58] <Guest69325> how

L699[20:21:58] <Guest69325> how

L700[20:21:59] <Guest69325> how

L701[20:22:00] <Althego> because they moved away

L702[20:22:12] <Guest69325> ..

L703[20:22:16] <Althego> so probably were outside of the navball

L704[20:22:20] <Althego> i mean on the navball

L705[20:22:23] <Guest69325> not what I'm lost with

L706[20:22:24] <Althego> but outside of the visiblearea

L707[20:23:00] <Guest69325> I aimed prograde and the thing got farther away I aimed at the target and lost the rest of the stuff

L708[20:24:47] <Althego> basically you did what i said in the example. you were almost on the same orbit as the target. burnt prograde. that increased the apoapsis, which meant it took you farther away

L709[20:25:13] <Guest69325> for short term can I use mj autodock once I'm that close again

L710[20:25:30] <Althego> you can check what it does

L711[20:25:33] <Althego> if it doesnt fail :)

L712[20:25:41] <Guest69325> I think seeing it happen on a screen I can manippulate may help

L713[20:26:01] <Althego> you can try this in sandbox too

L714[20:26:22] <Althego> with the current cheat menu you can put two ships into orbit

L715[20:26:34] <Althego> and then you can try docking with them

L716[20:26:40] <Althego> but there you have save

L717[20:26:42] <Guest69325> what I was after in the first place was ddockinjg the 2 large stations I have in sandbox but I can't even do this teeny one

L718[20:26:51] <Guest69325> yeah look

L719[20:32:39] ⇦ Quits: Guest69325 (webchat@16.211.187.199.wiredns.net) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)

L720[20:45:42] <packbart> well, props to Althego, anyway :)

L721[21:05:03] ⇦ Quits: Althego (~Althego@86FF4204.dsl.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station Mercury)

L722[21:11:21] ⇨ Joins: JVFoxy (webchat@d64-180-231-180.bchsia.telus.net)

L723[21:16:55] ⇨ Joins: Tank2333 (~Tank2333@p5ddaaa27.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

L724[21:21:41] ⇦ Quits: JVFoxy (webchat@d64-180-231-180.bchsia.telus.net) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)

L725[21:50:05] ⇨ Joins: Kerbinator3000 (webchat@c-67-171-250-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)

L726[21:50:12] <Kerbinator3000> hi

L727[21:50:13] <Mod9000> Hello, Kerbinator3000

L728[21:51:20] <Kerbinator3000> am I supposed to say hello lol is thhis a mechmod

L729[21:51:57] <packbart> well, it's a greeting, so you wouldn't feel lonely ;)

L730[21:52:54] <FLHerne> I find it annoying

L731[21:52:56] <Kerbinator3000> I walk a lonely road

L732[21:52:56] <Kerbinator3000> The only one that I have ever known

L733[21:53:03] <Kerbinator3000> kill me

L734[21:53:06] <Kerbinator3000> lol

L735[21:54:58] <Kerbinator3000> I've heard of asparagus fuel setups but i'm not clear what it means, is it the elusive ability to drain the side tanks first?

L736[21:55:46] <FLHerne> Yes

L737[21:56:11] <Kerbinator3000> wizar

L738[21:56:16] <Kerbinator3000> wizard

L739[21:56:21] <FLHerne> Particularly taken to extremes, where you have 6 or so side tanks and drain pairs of them sequentially

L740[21:56:27] <Kerbinator3000> how is that done exactly?

L741[21:57:01] <FLHerne> Cunningly-arranged pipes

L742[21:57:12] <Kerbinator3000> also it's me, the reckless rendezvous rocketeer

L743[21:57:28] <Kerbinator3000> but with a more doofenschmirtz name

L744[21:57:41] <FLHerne> I see, beats 'Guest<whatever>'

L745[21:57:50] <Kerbinator3000> yes

L746[21:58:01] <Kerbinator3000> sorry for being an annoying noob

L747[21:58:03] <Kerbinator3000> lol

L748[21:58:16] <FLHerne> Wiki has an article https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Asparagus_staging

L749[21:58:30] <FLHerne> I somewhat disagree with the opening paragraph

L750[21:58:36] <Kerbinator3000> oh?

L751[21:58:42] <Kerbinator3000> care to

L752[21:58:47] <Kerbinator3000> eeloocidate

L753[21:58:54] <FLHerne> Even though bigger engines exist, it's still worthwhile for saving fuel sometimes

L754[21:59:47] <Kerbinator3000> righto

L755[21:59:48] <FLHerne> Particularly on all those bodies that don't have drag, or have thinner atmospheres

L756[21:59:50] ⇦ Quits: nasonfish (~nasonfish@c-75-71-32-29.hsd1.co.comcast.net) (Quit: My MacBook Air has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)

L757[22:00:00] <FLHerne> Although I guess ISRU spaceships fill that niche a bit

L758[22:00:28] <Kerbinator3000> i was hoping it might help me launch enormous vehicles

L759[22:00:40] <Kerbinator3000> ISRU?

L760[22:00:49] <FLHerne> (I hadn't played for years until the other month, still haven't got used to the effect on the game that has)

L761[22:01:07] <FLHerne> 'in-space resource utilization' -- making fuel on other planets

L762[22:01:20] <FLHerne> It makes exploring the solar system vastly easier

L763[22:01:21] <Kerbinator3000> hm

L764[22:01:52] <FLHerne> Because of the rocket equation, Δv anywhere far from Kerbin used to be incredibly expensive

L765[22:02:16] <Kerbinator3000> i saw drills and converters and got extremely excited

L766[22:02:38] <FLHerne> Whereas now you can just land your spaceship on things and refuel, which is pretty fun, but very different

L767[22:02:46] <Kerbinator3000> sadly the landing legs keep giving me the business

L768[22:03:11] <FLHerne> What are you trying to land on?

L769[22:03:25] <Kerbinator3000> either too long, preventing the drill from reaching the ground, or too short, and they wont reach the ground

L770[22:03:29] <FLHerne> Oh, that

L771[22:03:32] <FLHerne> I had that too :p

L772[22:03:50] <FLHerne> If it's only a little bit, you can reduce the spring strength of the legs

L773[22:04:20] <Kerbinator3000> not to mention, I first played on xbox where you could edit the springs annd dampers, but on pc I can't?

L774[22:04:30] <Kerbinator3000> so I keep boucning sideways

L775[22:04:41] <FLHerne> I had one lander that only worked with the legs on the drill side at 0.05 strength, and the opposite pair at max

L776[22:04:51] <FLHerne> But then you touch it and it falls over :p

L777[22:05:01] <Kerbinator3000> heh

L778[22:05:02] <FLHerne> There's a setting for that on the PC version

L779[22:05:08] <Kerbinator3000> where

L780[22:05:13] <FLHerne> 'Advanced Tweakables', I think

L781[22:05:19] ⇦ Quits: Shoe (uid40690@id-40690.charlton.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L782[22:05:33] <Kerbinator3000> i seem to have lost all fine control in the vab

L783[22:05:35] <Kerbinator3000> ah

L784[22:05:54] <FLHerne> I don't know why, the default damper settings are hopeless

L785[22:06:22] <Kerbinator3000> right?

L786[22:06:35] <Kerbinator3000> * b o i n g*

L787[22:06:36] <FLHerne> So many planes that want to bounce up and down endlessly

L788[22:06:44] <FLHerne> Still, it's better than 1.0.0

L789[22:06:56] <Kerbinator3000> worse, the planes that refuse to stay straight

L790[22:07:06] <FLHerne> That was the one where the landing gear exploded randomly

L791[22:07:22] <FLHerne> Literally, you'd be rolling smoothly down the runway, and the wheels would explode

L792[22:07:53] <Kerbinator3000> I've started letting them roll off of the runway and launching them to the side since when I try to remain on a linear path it jerks from side to side\

L793[22:08:09] <Kerbinator3000> once you're in the air your're safe

L794[22:08:16] <FLHerne> Are you using capslock to reduce the control sensitivity?

L795[22:08:23] <FLHerne> It's kind of necessary for spaceplanes

L796[22:08:29] <Kerbinator3000> so I try designing them blue angels style

L797[22:08:31] <FLHerne> Also, disable steering on the rear wheels

L798[22:08:45] <Kerbinator3000> take-off as soon as possible

L799[22:08:51] <Kerbinator3000> oh

L800[22:09:04] <Kerbinator3000> I wasn't aware of either

L801[22:09:18] <Kerbinator3000> as tweakabl;es

L802[22:09:23] <FLHerne> Well, sometimes they're still a pig to steer :p

L803[22:09:35] <FLHerne> But it works a bit better

L804[22:09:53] <Kerbinator3000> I'll try that

L805[22:10:05] <FLHerne> For the same issue on landing, increasing the brake strength on the rear wheels and reducing it on the nosewheel helps too

L806[22:10:16] <Kerbinator3000> I think I'll keep throwing the weight towards the back for quick takeoff though

L807[22:10:30] <Kerbinator3000> lol duh on the last one

L808[22:10:40] <FLHerne> Yeah, rear wheels as close to the CoG is good

L809[22:11:02] <FLHerne> (until the mass shifts rearward as you use fuel, and then you can't land without the tail exploding)

L810[22:12:07] <Kerbinator3000> lol

L811[22:14:27] <Kerbinator3000> obikin kerman ikmplies the existence of ani-wan kerman

L812[22:16:48] <Kerbinator3000> also

L813[22:18:38] <Kerbinator3000> if I managed to get two spacecraft in circular orbits, but approx. 500 m apart in orbit, with one 2700m behind, could one rendezvous with the other or is it not valid

L814[22:20:37] <FLHerne> That should be fairly easy

L815[22:22:05] <FLHerne> tbh, at that distance you could probably get away with burning one straight toward the other and correcting for drift, if you have Δv to spare

L816[22:22:24] <FLHerne> The 'right' way would be to raise the orbit of the leading one very slightly

L817[22:22:42] <FLHerne> (by burning prograde)

L818[22:23:05] <FLHerne> Which will increase its orbital period so the other one will catch up

L819[22:30:46] <Kerbinator3000> *2700km behind

L820[22:31:24] <FLHerne> Ok, then definitely the second option

L821[22:32:37] <FLHerne> If you raise the leadings craft's Ap a few km, it'll take several orbits for the other one to catch up

L822[22:32:58] <FLHerne> If you raise it more it'll go quicker, but then you have to be careful not to overshoot

L823[22:32:58] <Kerbinator3000> lolool I just deactivated the computer's file system

L824[22:33:38] <FLHerne> Why?

L825[22:33:53] <Kerbinator3000> unintentionally

L826[22:34:09] <Kerbinator3000> I ended task on file explorer

L827[22:34:35] ⇦ Quits: Kerbinator3000 (webchat@c-67-171-250-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Quit: webchat.esper.net)

L828[22:47:41] ⇦ Quits: darsie (~kvirc@84-113-55-200.cable.dynamic.surfer.at) (Quit: bye bye)

L829[22:54:55] ⇦ Quits: goblin (~jaa@yatima.uukgoblin.net) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)

L830[23:02:38] ⇨ Joins: goblin (~jaa@yatima.uukgoblin.net)

L831[23:16:12] ⇨ Joins: nasonfish (~nasonfish@c-75-71-32-29.hsd1.co.comcast.net)

L832[23:56:20] ⇦ Quits: sandbox (~sandbox@host-78-147-178-253.as13285.net) (Quit: Leaving)