OCLogs: 2020-10-20.log

Stuff goes here

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L18[04:18:57] <Althego> here we go again. road closed

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L23[05:24:33] <Althego> hehe, how to handle science deniers https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-3ACWenNIQ

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L29[06:14:25] <Althego> siren

L30[06:21:42] <Althego> same thing as yesterday

L31[06:22:39] <Althego> at least it looked like that to me

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L40[08:04:07] <Althego> siren again

L41[08:14:04] <Althego> done

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L43[08:14:53] <Althego> looked like a perfectly fine static fire

L44[08:20:17] <Deddly> Aaw I missed it

L45[08:20:32] <Deddly> Glad it worked

L46[08:20:42] <Deddly> .nextlunch

L47[08:20:42] <LunchBot> Lasagna

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L49[09:51:06] <Mat2ch> Althego: oh noes, I missed it

L50[09:51:36] <Althego> luckily the internet keeps archives

L51[09:51:46] <Althego> it is only interesting in live if it fails

L52[09:51:55] <Althego> like it did several times previously with the explosions

L53[09:55:43] <Mat2ch> no, this is also exciting, because it means we will see a flight soon :)

L54[09:57:43] <Althego> soon in elon time

L55[09:57:48] <Althego> i guess next week soonest

L56[09:57:53] <Althego> they have to mount the nose cone

L57[09:58:02] <Althego> probably do tests with the assembled ship

L58[09:58:05] <Althego> and only then

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L60[10:30:46] <Deddly> I can't see them getting the sky-dive manoeuvre right first time

L61[10:31:35] <Althego> that is why there is an sn9 and 10 in the works already

L62[10:31:55] <Althego> as alon said: if sn8 craters

L63[10:32:06] <Deddly> I can imagine they'll be able to keep it steady, but perhaps not aimed exactly right, but the part where it goes vertical will likely fail.

L64[10:32:20] <Deddly> It'll be a fabulous show :)

L65[10:32:28] <Althego> i am not really afraid of the skydice

L66[10:32:38] <Althego> the problem is at the end where it has to flip 90 degrees

L67[10:32:42] <Althego> and land

L68[10:32:46] <Deddly> Skydive will work - it's neutrally stable

L69[10:32:56] <Deddly> Yes, exactly

L70[10:33:18] <Althego> supposedly most of the torque comes from the raptors

L71[10:33:22] <Althego> not the rcs

L72[10:33:30] <Deddly> But the hard part with the skydive is not merely remaining stable, it's also aiming the ship to the correct location for the flip

L73[10:33:31] <Althego> so it will have the power

L74[10:33:45] <Althego> but no rocket has ever done this before

L75[10:34:12] <Deddly> Looking forward to it, for sure

L76[10:34:30] <Althego> also probably higher than 1 twr too

L77[10:34:38] <Althego> so there is hardly any room for errors

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L81[10:36:03] <Judge_Dedd> It'll have loads of thrust at that point, no? Empty of fuel for the most part

L82[10:36:09] <Althego> doing a suicide burn while also doing a flip

L83[10:36:49] <Althego> that is the problem, too high thrust. if velocity or position is off it will slam into the ground or start to go up again and falls back from there

L84[10:37:01] <Judge_Dedd> Yeah...

L85[10:37:13] <Althego> same problem with falcon 9, but at least that is a normal landing

L86[10:37:14] <Judge_Dedd> They aren't going to land on 1?

L87[10:37:19] <Althego> hmm

L88[10:37:25] <Althego> maybe

L89[10:37:28] <Althego> that could help

L90[10:37:30] <Althego> or not

L91[10:38:21] <Judge_Dedd> or 2

L92[10:42:39] <Judge_Dedd> They actually haven't had any failures in flight or landing yet, right?

L93[10:43:42] <Judge_Dedd> Burst tanks and a few Raptor issues, some landing leg issues, all on the ground, and the landing leg issues were not catastrophic failures

L94[10:44:22] <Judge_Dedd> So Starship flight and landing record is actually 100 percent success so far

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L103[11:31:30] <Judge_Dedd> chanlog

L104[11:31:31] <Mod9000> I keep channel logs here: bitcoinshell.mooo.com/users/deddly/?C=M;O=D

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L111[12:37:47] <Mat2ch> Judge_Dedd: it's all about the PID controllers and if they are configured correctly.

L112[12:38:00] <Mat2ch> If they are I see them having a successful flight and landing.

L113[12:38:11] <Mat2ch> And they are doing many many tests right now with the setup

L114[12:38:13] <Judge_Dedd> What is PID?

L115[12:38:20] <Mat2ch> tests = simulations

L116[12:38:30] <Mat2ch> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller

L117[12:38:36] <Mat2ch> the stuff that makes the world go round today :D

L118[12:39:00] <Mat2ch> It's just a way how you control control loops

L119[12:39:09] <Judge_Dedd> Ah I see

L120[12:39:22] <Mat2ch> or better: Set up control loops

L121[12:39:41] <Mat2ch> I've built myself one once for KSP in kOS. But I hated kOS too much to do more things with it.

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L127[13:50:51] <FLHerne> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7BucUAuC7s <- precision rocket engineering

L128[13:55:40] <Althego> hehe

L129[13:55:43] <Althego> completely legit

L130[13:56:08] <Althego> i was moving 3 T machines with less than a mm precision with wooden beams like this

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L132[13:58:40] <umaxtu> FLHerne, more of the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1U4WH6QUBw

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L144[15:52:43] <Althego> for free https://www.gog.com/game/europa_universalis_ii

L145[15:54:22] <Rokker> Althego: wanna see a stupid hot take

L146[15:54:34] <Althego> maybe a hot cake?

L147[15:54:44] <Rokker> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/iKJ3vxx4/Screenshot_20201020-090818_Reddit.jpg

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L149[15:55:19] <Althego> it is the first reusable

L150[15:55:33] <Althego> that may or may not make it more important

L151[15:55:39] <Rokker> nah

L152[15:55:59] <Rokker> first rocket to land humans on foreign body

L153[15:56:41] <Althego> saturn v, and everything with the apolo program is far greater achievement

L154[15:56:51] <Rokker> yep

L155[15:57:03] <Althego> but the importance is a different thing

L156[15:57:12] <Rokker> nah

L157[15:57:50] <Rokker> Saturn V and Apollo hold much more importance than F9 can ever have

L158[15:58:06] <Althego> saturn v is basically a one off

L159[15:58:23] <Althego> for the long run falcon 9 may be more important

L160[15:58:31] <Rokker> the technologies it spawned sure as hell arent

L161[15:58:43] <Althego> but as i said, still the moon landing is the biggest achievement ever

L162[15:58:47] <packbart> each rocket dropped into the ocean increases the sea level ;) (not measurebly much, though, I imagine)

L163[15:58:59] <Rokker> F9 uses technologies created for Saturn V

L164[15:59:43] <Althego> not directly

L165[15:59:54] <Althego> but then everything is because of v2

L166[16:00:11] <UmbralRaptor> Okay, F9 uses LEM technologies

L167[16:03:14] <packbart> I'd say it gets increasingly difficult to attribute influences over time. shoulders of giants and all that. there probably wouldn't be any rockets without discovery of black powder and fire, anyway

L168[16:04:16] <Althego> even falcon 9 is just an intermediate solution

L169[16:04:44] <Althego> originally there were plans for full reusability

L170[16:04:53] <Althego> but then elon decided to focus on starship isntead

L171[16:04:54] <packbart> I hope rockets are just an intermediate solution ;)

L172[16:05:09] <Althego> yes, we all need docking port levitator ufos

L173[16:05:20] <packbart> but it doesn't look like any great break-throughs are to be expected in the medium future

L174[16:05:42] <Althego> even nuclear thermal is just the same thing

L175[16:05:48] <Althego> a bit differently

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L177[16:26:19] <Deddly> I mean, it depends what you're comparing, doesn't it? Saturn V was not the entire Moon landing

L178[16:27:15] <Deddly> Saturn V was tye booster. There were other parts that were probably more significant to actually landing on the moon

L179[16:28:57] <packbart> looks like there was some firing after all at SpaceX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br1xFIbf5y4

L180[16:29:07] <umaxtu> yup

L181[16:30:45] <Althego> it was loud even in the stream

L182[16:30:56] <Althego> and there was that metal sound at the end

L183[16:32:39] <umaxtu> kinda reminded me of the Titan II startup noise

L184[16:35:34] <Althego> su what is with delta iv heavy?

L185[16:35:46] <Althego> it seems like they stopped trying to launch it

L186[16:52:32] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6K2dqCoin8

L187[16:52:37] <Althego> i will be sleeping by then

L188[16:58:49] <Rokker> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/1o7H0NkI/20201020_125401.jpg

L189[16:59:36] <Rokker> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/FJMF0JyY/20201020_125234.jpg

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L196[18:11:07] <Mat2ch> Althego: the burp might be just some ressonance in the whole system. And that should be avoided...

L197[18:18:02] <umaxtu> they could get rid of that by adding MOAR ENGINES right?

L198[18:18:30] <Althego> it can be anything else, for example the releasing of the stress of the thrust giving way to the weight instead. could have been the base it was sitting on too

L199[18:18:48] <Althego> nonetheless it was a cool sound

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L202[19:35:32] <Deddly> I wonder if that sound has something to do with a built-im protection from water hammer

L203[19:35:40] <Deddly> built-in

L204[19:36:12] <Deddly> And of course, fuel and lox, not water, but I think it is still called water hammer

L205[19:46:37] <FLHerne> It happened with early test engines, but not the more recent ones (until now)

L206[19:47:24] <FLHerne> So the assumption in #SpaceX at least was that it wasn't intended, and possibly related to Elon's "looks like 600 Hz Raptor vibration problem is fixed" tweet

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L208[19:53:59] <MisguidedKerbal> Everyone see the new forum update?

L209[19:54:26] <MisguidedKerbal> ...

L210[19:54:30] <MisguidedKerbal> Nobody's on, again

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L212[19:55:18] <flayer> He just gave us 36 seconds to respond...

L213[19:55:43] <Deddly> LOL

L214[19:55:43] <packbart> jup, I noticed. even got the "upgrade in progress" page inbeteen

L215[19:56:01] <packbart> new look

L216[19:56:11] <Deddly> Forum update went wrong and should be in the process of reverting

L217[19:57:03] <packbart> oh noez. it did work for me

L218[19:57:11] <Deddly> So don't be surprised to see a lot of wierdness

L219[19:57:33] <Deddly> I mean, it works, sort of. But there are problems with it

L220[20:00:16] <FLHerne> That's got to be a new record

L221[20:00:18] <FLHerne> I mean, wow

L222[20:03:54] <Deddly> Record for what?

L223[20:03:55] <packbart> ah, indeed. Now it throws some odd template errors

L224[20:04:03] <packbart> good luck :)

L225[20:05:42] <packbart> a record for the shortest appearance. I don't log join/part in this channel, so I can't compare

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L227[20:06:49] <FLHerne> Their previous appearances were 21 minutes and 20 minutes

L228[20:06:56] <FLHerne> So it's a new personal best at least

L229[20:07:46] <umbralraptop> yeah, it's frustrating when they act like we're a tech support phoneline / being paid to constantly monitor the channel

L230[20:09:33] <Deddly> Ah I see

L231[20:11:44] <packbart> there are no official records on how fast a forum upgrade can be reverted ;)

L232[20:12:29] <Deddly> Hehe

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L234[20:12:34] <Deddly> Still in progress

L235[20:12:49] <packbart> no worries. I don't envy you :)

L236[20:13:05] <FLHerne> And you can't have the record for worst-broken forum upgrade, because I still claim it :p

L237[20:14:23] <FLHerne> (for https://impsvillage.com/forums/ , which is mostly dead these days anyway because its game is)

L238[20:17:03] <packbart> "Dofus requires a lot of strategy, planning, management, social skills, and this Wikia. And don't forget patience... lots and lots of patience..." - I guess it takes a lot of patience, then :)

L239[20:17:22] <FLHerne> Maybe less than ten years ago when someone wrote that

L240[20:17:32] <FLHerne> It used to be the most ludicrously grind-heavy game

L241[20:17:39] <FLHerne> You thought WoW was grindy?

L242[20:17:50] <FLHerne> The newer versions are much less so

L243[20:18:29] <flayer> http://progressquest.com/

L244[20:19:37] <FLHerne> Oh wow

L245[20:19:47] <FLHerne> I haven't seen those saturated XP colours in years

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L247[20:22:03] <umbralraptop> yes, but have you considered kittens http://www.bloodrizer.ru/games/kittens/

L248[20:24:44] <flayer> honestly, these games bring me about as much joy as other games

L249[20:24:46] <flayer> it's just so sad

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L252[20:28:51] * FLHerne is trapped clicking meaningless cat-related buttons

L253[20:30:04] <umbralraptop> yay, cats

L254[20:30:28] <umbralraptop> uh, incidentally, if you play long enough, that game goes from cute to cosmic horror story (the cats are mostly fine, though)

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L256[20:40:34] <packbart> well, three poor kittens starved in winter while I wasn't looking. 30 fields were not enough. I probably shouldn't own Tamagotchis ;)

L257[20:41:18] <umbralraptop> D:

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L259[20:57:07] <FLHerne> umbralraptop: What do I want 'catpower' for?

L260[20:57:38] <umbralraptop> FLHerne: uh, sending out hunting parties initially. Later trade stuff

L261[20:57:58] <umbralraptop> hunting parties -> various luxuries -> greater productivity until they're consumed

L262[20:58:01] <umbralraptop> Also unicorns

L263[21:01:03] <packbart> oh, somebody started talking. took me a while to locate the tab: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6K2dqCoin8

L264[21:01:04] <FLHerne> So, is there a downside to starving my kittens, except the short-term absence of a kitten?

L265[21:01:18] * FLHerne *may* have accidentally starved some kittens...

L266[21:04:06] <umbralraptop> It means you're a bad person, and yes

L267[21:04:17] <umbralraptop> It's a reason to plant more catnip

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L272[22:06:45] <packbart> *reload* *reload*

L273[22:10:52] <packbart> 1m lateral offset. not bad, MechJeb

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L283[23:11:40] <packbart> linuxgurugamer is going to release something tonight that will "blow us away" - or so he says. take cover! :)

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L287[23:15:21] * Azander hides under the launch pad :P

L288[23:15:51] <umbralraptop> In the rubber room?

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L290[23:17:54] <FLHerne> Hm, so I left the kitten thing running in another tab, and it went into a cycle where 70% of my population died each winter and were replaced in the spring

L291[23:18:10] <FLHerne> There are achievements for killing lots of kittens :p

L292[23:18:55] <packbart> a Firefox update killed my kittens - I had secretly hoped it would store some state in a local cookie

L293[23:19:15] <umbralraptop> there's something there for saving state, though I forget how

L294[23:19:39] <umbralraptop> FLHerne: I guess you could try getting that acheivement. for science. you monster.

L295[23:24:33] <umaxtu> wth are you talking about killing kittens?

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L297[23:26:30] <packbart> because that's what the program prints when it decreases a counter

L298[23:27:02] <umaxtu> you're all terrible people

L299[23:27:33] <FLHerne> I did kick a baby rabbit to death once

L300[23:27:36] <FLHerne> But only by accident

L301[23:28:52] <FLHerne> (I was cycling home and it ran in front of me)

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