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L14[03:17:38] <hatrix> added a canard and
more control surfaces at the tail
L15[03:18:01] <Althego> what os that center
wheel doing?
L16[03:18:47] <Althego> wing angle seems to
be too big (too much drag)
L17[03:22:17] <hatrix> well, I need to take
off and land
L18[03:22:22] <hatrix> I didn't know where
to place it
L19[03:22:59] <hatrix> by angle you mean
the anhedral wings?
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L22[03:49:39] <Lyneira> Could be the camera
angle but the anhedral wings appear to also have a slight built-in
AoA
L23[03:50:11] <Althego> hatrix: not the
anhedral, they seem to have high angle of attack, but maybe that
just looks so
L24[03:51:09] <Lyneira> Interesting design,
is it stable in roll?
L25[03:58:33] <hatrix> rolls really well
yes
L27[03:59:20] <hatrix> the rocket engine is
useless though, not powerfull enough
L28[04:00:55] <hatrix> well, it lands
correctly at least
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L37[05:51:20] <Lyneira> I mean whether it
stays stable in roll when you turn off SAS
L38[05:51:28] <Lyneira> And don't touch the
controls
L39[05:52:21] <hatrix> hmm
L40[05:52:27] <hatrix> let's try that
L41[05:52:31] <Lyneira> If not then in some
situations the instability could potentially overpower SAS or at
the very least make it impractical to fly with SAS off and using
trim to fly
L42[05:53:27] <Lyneira> Not a necessity of
course, trim flying is a bit of a niche thing
L43[05:54:59] <hatrix> I just know trims
are really important to be checked when taking off
L44[05:55:09] <hatrix> otherwise the plane
would stall and you'd die
L45[05:55:30] <hatrix> don't know enough
about the physics though :/
L46[05:55:55] <hatrix> the current plane is
too maneuverable, it reacts too much to my inputs
L47[05:58:03] <hatrix> Lyneira: it pitches
down when I turn of SAS
L48[05:58:36] <Lyneira> that's normal
L49[05:58:42] <Althego> that is what
creates stability
L50[05:58:49] <Althego> lift behind
com
L51[05:58:57] <Lyneira> set trim (alt + up
arrow) to a slight pitch up to counter that and see if it stays
stable in roll
L52[05:59:34] <Lyneira> Once it stays more
or less level in pitch you could tap q or e briefly to see what
happens when you add a slight instability
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L54[06:02:13] <hatrix> ok now it pitches up
a bit Lyneira :)
L55[06:05:33] <hatrix> ok now it's quite
stable!
L56[06:05:44] <hatrix> pitches a bit up
still when going at mach 1
L57[06:07:53] <hatrix> it stays angled when
rolling Lyneira
L58[06:17:20] <Lyneira> So neutrally stable
in roll, that's good, especially for an anhedral design
L59[06:18:02] <Lyneira> Actually try
tapping a or d for a bit of yaw instability and see if it starts
rolling then
L60[06:18:16] <hatrix> I still don't know
what to do with that plane though
L61[06:18:19] <Lyneira> That's actually
what anhedral and dihedral wing layouts are aimed at
L62[06:18:41] <hatrix> dihedral would roll
the plane back to normal?.
L63[06:19:15] <Lyneira> Yep, which causes
the yaw instability to dampen out
L64[06:19:36] <Lyneira> Whereas anhedral
tends to roll away from normal
L65[06:19:40] <Althego> hehe, it seems
kerbals didnt invent yaw dampers :)
L66[06:23:00] <hatrix> how mandatory is it
to have rapiers for an ssto?
L67[06:23:07] <Althego> no
L68[06:23:17] <darsie> Hat 0.32.
L69[06:23:17] <Althego> you at least need
the turbojets
L70[06:23:34] <Althego> the vectoring thing
doesnt have enough speed
L71[06:23:48] <Althego> but of course
rapiers are the best
L72[06:24:44] <darsie> Swivel, reliant,
mammoth can do SSTO, and probably others.
L73[06:25:21] <Mat2ch> The rapiers are the
best, because you will need an additional rocket engine and they
are both in one, so you don't have to add more weight
L74[06:25:22] <hatrix> what about the
dart?
L75[06:25:29] <darsie> Dart is good.
L76[06:25:55] <Mat2ch> well, if you wanna
haul a huge tank, go full LFO ;)
L77[06:26:13] <darsie> Dart can get a
tourist to orbit with just an FL-800 tank.
L78[06:26:36] <darsie> If you know how to
fly.
L79[06:27:49] <darsie> Landing is tricky,
though.
L80[06:29:46] <darsie> If you don't use a
separator and want full recovery.
L81[06:30:09] <darsie> decoupler*
L82[06:30:22] <Lyneira> I think there's
probably some configurations of sub-turbojet engines and rocket
engines that can get you to orbit in a single stage (aerospike
comes to mind because of the relatively high TWR), but your plane
is going to be much more rocket-like than plane-like for most of
the ascent
L83[06:31:08] <Lyneira> It will need a
larger percentage of rocket fuel which leaves much less for the
engines and wings
L84[06:31:36] <Lyneira> The airbreathing
engines*
L85[06:31:49] <Althego> the problem is, the
gain is mostly from the jets, since they use so little fuel. if you
cant get to over 1000 m/s, they are of little use
L86[06:32:14] <Althego> and 1300 is what i
would think of as good
L87[06:32:38] <Lyneira> Well, sub-jet
airbreathing engines at least get you altitude and some speed while
being even more efficient, but they'll need to haul a beefier
rocket stage
L88[06:32:49] <darsie> Starting rocket
engines at 15 km almost horizontally is more efficient, though,
than from the launch pad.
L89[06:33:27] <Althego> still a very little
delta v gain, copared to the speed coming from the jets
L90[06:34:09] <darsie> Yeah, but much less
air and gravity losses.
L91[06:34:53] <darsie> Maybe you can start
with a more efficient vacuum engine, too.
L92[06:35:13] <Lyneira> With rapiers and
turbojets you can kinda get away with low-ish TWR on the rocket
stage, but don't make that mistake if you try to make an SSTO with
panthers and rocket engines... you need a lot of thrust on the
switchover so you can get your pitch up. It helps if you're not
flying horizontal but pitched up just before switchover too
L93[06:35:53] <Lyneira> You want to get out
of that 15 km zone much more quickly than Rapier SSTOs
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L96[07:08:07] <Eddi|zuHause> i've never
really understood how to make an SSTO. maybe i was never far enough
in the tech tree?
L97[07:08:42] <Eddi|zuHause> can you make
an SSTO with just the 300s tech level?
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L100[07:10:26] <darsie> Eddi|zuHause: Yes,
the second rocket can be SSTO.
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L102[07:11:12] <darsie> Eddi|zuHause: New
career, first rocket, second rocket SSTO.
L103[07:12:34] <darsie> I could tell you
how, if you like.
L104[07:14:38] <Eddi|zuHause> probably not
right now
L105[07:15:34] <Eddi|zuHause> currently
busy with trying to figure out a way to shimmy in a VPN to a work
site
L106[07:15:59] <Eddi|zuHause> and outside
of that i'm playing stellaris right now
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L111[08:09:27] <Lyneira> Important to note
here is the distinctions between spaceplanes and SSTOs. Spaceplanes
go to space and come back to land on a runway, SSTOs are anything
that can get into orbit without splitting into pieces. In KSP,
several high-thrust and reasonably efficient engines can do this
just on their own given enough fuel. Some SSTOs may also be
spaceplanes but they don't have to be. And the space shuttle or
something like it is clearly
L112[08:09:29] <Lyneira> not an SSTO but
it is a spaceplane
L113[08:10:51] <Lyneira> I think
Eddi|zuHause was thinking of a low tech spaceplane SSTO rather than
a pure rocket SSTO given the earlier context though.
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L117[08:54:08] <VanDisaster> if you make a
big spaceplane there's certain parts of the flight envelope that
you might want stages for anyway.... takeoff & top of
atmospheric propulsion, for instance
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L120[08:57:17] <Lyneira> One other problem
with airbreathing KSP spaceplanes is that you can only really scale
up by spamming more of the same airbreathing engine, not have a few
bigger ones
L121[08:59:11] <Lyneira> When your
spaceplane needs to weigh 200 tons on the runway to deliver the
cargo you want to orbit, you kinda need a lot of engines to get it
to take off (and a lot of wing parts too, if not using procedural
wings)
L122[09:00:37] <Mat2ch> Or you use
mods
L123[09:03:25] <Lyneira> Well, it's been a
long time but I don't really know of any mods that add a line of
airbreathing rapier-like engines that cover as wide a mass range as
the rocket engine selection does
L124[09:03:55] <Lyneira> I know B9 was
there first with the sabre engines (1.25m and 2.5m) but that's just
2 sizes
L125[09:04:00] <Mat2ch> I thought about
the scale mod, where you can scale up parts
L126[09:04:18] <VanDisaster> if you need
more than 4 of the b9 sabres your plane probably won't fit on the
runway
L127[09:04:57] <Lyneira> That's a fair
point. Though a smaller size would be nice too
L128[09:06:16] <Lyneira> brb
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L132[09:11:05] <hatrix> ok I just got KER,
how could I live without that :o
L134[09:28:23] <darsie> VTOL
L135[09:36:41]
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L139[09:41:32] <Althego> hehe rather
simple
L140[09:41:41] <Althego> mandatory
vtol
L141[09:43:05] <darsie> Haven't succeeded
landing it, yet.
L142[09:43:29] <hatrix> Alarm Clock also
is very nice :)
L143[09:50:52]
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L144[09:51:05] <darsie> almost landed ...
on water.
L145[09:51:26] <darsie> Jet engine thrust
lag sucks.
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L147[10:01:03] <darsie> Landed, but lost a
jet engine.
L148[10:01:56] <hatrix> in Kerbal Alarm
Clock, can I warp to an alarm?
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L153[10:19:24] <Mat2ch> yes
L154[10:19:33] <Mat2ch> hatrix: there's a
button exactly for that. :D
L155[10:22:03] <hatrix> I can't find it
:(
L157[10:22:46] <hatrix> ah gg
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L160[10:27:07] <Althego> hehe not much
fuel remaining
L161[10:27:47] <darsie> nope. Requires
suicide burn sort of to get down.
L162[10:28:08] <darsie> I guess I could
load more LF and make a precision landing.
L163[10:28:38] <darsie> But dv to orbit is
tight, too.
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L168[11:10:39] <darsie> mini
L169[11:11:13] <darsie> Might even be able
to land.
L170[11:12:12] <Althego> hehe
L172[11:13:56] <Althego> hehe
L173[11:19:25] <lordcirth_> download moar
ram
L174[11:20:06] <darsie> 3D print it
L175[11:20:38] <Althego> hehe the small
monitoring tool i compiled on ubuntu runs on buster
L176[11:20:49] <Althego> i didnt expect
this
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L183[11:50:18] <Guest46258> I use the mod
Airplane plus and cant figure out how the leading edge slats work.
when i place them the correct way where they extend down they
produce downward lift so rather than increasing my stall speed all
it really does is forces my nose down.
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L185[11:50:39] <Guest46258> flaps work
better but still similar issues
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L188[12:10:04] <hatrix> good job
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L190[12:13:25] <darsie> Manual suicide
burns are a bad idea. That's a job for a computer.
L191[12:14:07] <darsie> Even Apollo used
radar and a computer to come down, I guess.
L192[12:14:20] <Althego> not with a
suicide burn
L193[12:15:03] <Althego> there were a
bunch of programs for landing, starting with a computer timed burn,
then a half manual that kept the altitude, and a full manual
L194[12:16:07] <darsie> I didn't require a
full suicide burn. Still it was tricky manually.
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L200[12:21:40] <hatrix> I was about to
install principa, but after watching scott's video I feel like I'd
just hate myself
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L205[12:39:12] <hatrix> where is the
button?
L206[12:55:31] <Wastl4> Don't you just
start warping and KAC will cancel it when an alarm is coming
up?
L207[12:56:44] <hatrix> it does, but I
have to manually warp
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L209[13:11:57] <Mat2ch> hatrix: what
happens, when you click on the yellow W?
L210[13:12:21] <hatrix> nothing
L211[13:12:23] <Mat2ch> there was one
afaik. But I haven't used KAC in some time
L212[13:12:25] <Mat2ch> hm
L213[13:14:16] <hatrix> I'm not missing
nodes anymore at least :)
L215[13:16:34] <Mat2ch> Ah, there are
"add and warp" options in the quick warp menu. It may be
possible that I remember that
L216[13:16:52] <Althego> yes, it is
relatively big and duna's gravity is not strong. so ike has a large
soi
L217[13:26:07] <hatrix> why is it so hard
to mine on Duna? even with a short range scanner I'm not finding
anything
L218[13:26:49] <Althego> it wasnt
hard
L219[13:26:52] <Althego> but where did you
land?
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L222[13:29:05] <hatrix> the global scanner
said there was something
L223[13:29:07] <hatrix> apparently
not
L224[13:29:10] <hatrix> I'll try
again
L225[13:29:27] <Althego> the polar scanner
thing just reports biome average
L226[13:30:25] <hatrix> how do you usually
do it? low orbit and then retrograde when the short range scanner
finds something?
L227[13:31:00] <Althego> no, i just land
in the lowlands, higher air pressure there for slowing down, also
easier to land
L228[13:44:27] <hatrix> the drill needs
2.5% to mine :/
L229[13:44:35] <hatrix> I'm only finding
2.44
L230[13:45:21] <hatrix> Ah! 8.4
L232[14:06:00] <hatrix> not enough
electricity though
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L236[14:28:31] <kmath> YouTube - Still
Alive - Frank Sinatra Big Band Swing Version (The 8-Bit Big
Band)
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L242[15:17:21] <hatrix> is there a way to
see empty mass in KER?
L243[15:20:05] <Althego> yes, drain the
tanks :)
L244[15:20:44] <hatrix> that's what I'm
doing but with several tanks it's long
L245[15:20:52] <Althego> oh wait ker
L246[15:20:56] <Althego> you can just turn
it on
L247[15:21:02] <hatrix> I need to
calculate Δv with something I'll retrieve with the grabbing
unit
L248[15:21:09] <Althego> the basic view
doesnt contain a lot of important information
L249[15:21:34] <Althego> so turn on the
other infos, there is some settings or something
L250[15:21:46] <hatrix> I don't see it,
the one in the VAB?
L251[15:22:16] <Althego> the inflight data
is for current values
L252[15:22:31] <Althego> but it calculates
the delta v for you, so you dont need the mass anyway
L253[15:23:04] <Althego> the vab one can
show you the stage empty and full mss
L254[15:23:08] <hatrix> I need the mass to
calculate the Δv since I'll add 1 ton
L255[15:23:23] <Althego> add one tone and
it calculates it automatically anyway
L256[15:23:25] <hatrix> dry mass and full
mass
L257[15:24:34] <hatrix> ok adding
something random works also
L258[15:24:37] <hatrix> you saved me some
time :)
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L278[17:03:46] <hatrix> shouldn't I see an
orbit or something around Gilly?
L279[17:05:40] <darsie> hatrix: I'd say
so.
L280[17:06:21] <hatrix> RIP
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L282[17:07:01] <darsie> hatrix: I guess
those two relays are your's.
L283[17:07:10] <hatrix> yep
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L299[19:22:18] <JVFoxy> weee prop
spinners
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L320[21:35:49] <Tonkers> /msg NickServ
VERIFY REGISTER Tonkers ovltmjdwbdph
L321[21:35:56] <Tonkers> lol oops
L322[21:36:11] <Tonkers> nice beginning
space
L323[21:38:21] <raptop> oops
L324[21:38:30] <raptop> (change your
password, etc etc)
L325[21:39:59] <JVFoxy> blrp
L326[21:41:14] <JVFoxy> thought to share
some plane pics but then fighting with bluetooth, ended with pc
stuck in self fix loop.. reinstalling bluetooth, removing services
didn't need, or couldn't find online while automatically installing
everything.. >.<
L327[21:41:22] <JVFoxy> ya.. a little
burnout at the moment
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