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L31[08:03:12] <hatrix> how do I upgrade from 1.8 to 1.9? Do I just copy the directory "saves"?
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L33[08:09:31] <UmbralRaptop> setting up a separate 1.9 install and copying the saves should work, yes
L34[08:33:49] <Althego> also the thumbnails if you dont want to wait for the game to regenerate them on craft open
L35[08:35:47] <hatrix> can I copy my settings also?
L36[08:36:02] <hatrix> (also, wow KSP 1.9 is beautiful)
L37[08:38:40] ⇨ Joins: raptop (raptop!~Newpa_Has@172.58.188.132)
L38[08:41:41] <hatrix> I can even run it in 1080p :)
L39[08:42:47] <raptop> !logs
L40[08:42:51] <raptop> chanlog
L41[08:42:52] <Mod9000> I keep channel logs here: bitcoinshell.mooo.com/users/deddly/?C=M;O=D
L42[08:45:41] <hatrix> the jump from 720p to 1080p is weird, I've got too much space now
L43[08:46:16] <raptop> uh, maybe. Not sure if the settings file has changed/would cause weird errors
L44[08:46:30] <hatrix> I'm redoing them all
L45[08:52:56] <Lyneira> You'll get used to 1080p soon enough. :) And once you try a 1440p monitor or bigger it'll be weird in the same way, until you get used to that too.
L46[09:03:00] <hatrix> at least now I've got space to pin stuff
L47[09:03:17] <hatrix> and that percentage burn for maneuvers ♥
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L50[09:08:12] <hatrix> Dres time https://i.imgur.com/LfGikqt.png :)
L51[09:12:05] <hatrix> how do you do plane changes to get the perfect encounter?
L52[09:12:18] <hatrix> I've got an encounter but I'm going way too fast and need a lot of δv to slow down
L53[09:16:03] <hatrix> not enough to land on Dres :(
L54[09:20:27] <hatrix> I'm shy of like 300m/s :|
L55[09:21:59] <Wastl2> Have you tried to do plane changes as part of your burn to get a transfer orbit? Instead of doing a seperate maneuver only to change inclination, I mean.
L56[09:22:42] <hatrix> yep, but I'm bad at this I guess
L57[09:23:02] <hatrix> omg, I might be able to land with RCS
L58[09:23:03] <taniwha> just takes practice
L59[09:23:26] <taniwha> (if you're bad at something, practice more. you won't stay bad)
L60[09:23:57] <hatrix> when you say burn, which one are you talking about?
L61[09:24:07] <hatrix> when going of the pad? circularizing?
L62[09:24:15] <hatrix> ejection burn?
L63[09:24:21] <taniwha> any burn, really
L64[09:24:36] <taniwha> any time you can combine burns, you improve efficiency
L65[09:24:49] <hatrix> I struggled to get an encounter
L66[09:24:56] <hatrix> I was happy with what I got
L67[09:25:02] <hatrix> but it cost a lot
L68[09:25:48] <taniwha> getting encounters can be tricky and being in the window helps
L69[09:26:02] <taniwha> if it cost more than expected, you may not have been in the window
L70[09:26:13] <taniwha> (Kerbin to Duna is not all that expensive, normally)
L71[09:26:28] <hatrix> yeah, 82° is hard to eyeball
L72[09:26:34] <hatrix> Duna and Eve are quite easy
L73[09:26:57] <taniwha> there are fun tricks you can do with maneuver nodes to find a window
L74[09:27:32] <hatrix> how? I'm usually playing with radials/(pro|retro)grade
L75[09:27:42] <hatrix> and moving back and forth the maneuver
L76[09:27:43] <taniwha> eg, set up a burn that just barely gets you out of Kerbin's SoI, then add a second manuever node on the solar orbit
L77[09:27:56] <taniwha> adjust and slide that around until you get an encouter
L78[09:28:04] <hatrix> oh, ok
L79[09:28:12] <taniwha> that lets you know the approximage position Kerbin needs to be in
L80[09:28:14] <hatrix> Usually I try to have en encounter and do corrections in the Sun's orbit
L81[09:28:20] <taniwha> (or your source planet, really)
L82[09:28:42] <taniwha> you often will need to, but it's a good way of finding a window
L83[09:28:46] <hatrix> do you have a video about that? I think I got the idea but I'm not sure
L84[09:29:12] <taniwha> look through HMV's (5thHorsman's) videos on youtube
L85[09:29:20] <taniwha> some of his earlier series
L86[09:29:21] <hatrix> also https://i.imgur.com/R2mW7mD.png :D
L87[09:29:25] <taniwha> I got the trick from him
L88[09:29:33] <hatrix> thanks to that RCS tanks I've got enough Δv
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L90[09:29:51] <taniwha> nice
L91[09:29:56] <hatrix> HMV Plays I recon
L92[09:30:35] <taniwha> yeah
L93[09:30:37] <hatrix> I found this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4tPfWmFOeM
L94[09:30:37] <kmath> YouTube - How I Do It: Interplanetary Transfers Without Any Transfer Window Calculators
L95[09:31:02] <taniwha> that's him
L96[09:33:15] <hatrix> I was like "I could use drain valves to empty that RCS tank and gain some Δv"
L97[09:33:26] <hatrix> but then I thought might as well use those thrusters
L98[09:33:37] <hatrix> I'm glad Dres is so small
L99[09:33:58] <taniwha> ah, Dres. Yeah, that's a little tougher
L100[09:34:15] <taniwha> apparently, the second window in a new save is the cheapest
L101[09:34:29] <taniwha> (dres encounter is nearly on the relative inclination node)
L102[09:34:34] <hatrix> second window in a new save?
L103[09:35:09] <taniwha> yeah
L104[09:35:55] <hatrix> what does that mean
L105[09:36:21] <hatrix> https://i.imgur.com/M5uFTmk.png
L106[09:36:30] <hatrix> that was a really close call
L107[09:36:43] <taniwha> nicely done
L108[09:37:08] <raptop> nice
L109[09:37:20] <taniwha> There's a Kerbin-Dres window every year and a bit
L110[09:37:44] <taniwha> the first one isn't too far into the game, but has a high plane-change cost
L111[09:38:02] <hatrix> exactly
L112[09:38:04] <taniwha> the second one, a year and a bit later, has a very low plane-change cost
L113[09:38:06] <hatrix> I think I took this one
L114[09:38:17] <Althego> wow, traffic
L115[09:38:19] <hatrix> I took the Δv values for the other one
L116[09:38:20] <Althego> cant read it now
L117[09:38:24] <hatrix> but I had enough margin apparently
L118[09:38:32] <taniwha> hatrix: oh, and get Kerbal Alarm Clock
L119[09:38:34] <hatrix> you'll read tonight Althego :)
L120[09:39:12] <hatrix> if it's available for 1.9 sure
L121[09:39:27] <taniwha> it should be
L122[09:39:35] <taniwha> and it should work anyway
L123[09:42:27] <darsie> taniwha: You can make a plane change while departing from Kerbin.
L124[09:42:53] <taniwha> yes, indeed, but it's not necessarily optimal
L125[09:43:37] <darsie> Mhm. Better make it at the heavier planet.
L126[09:44:02] <darsie> I think.
L127[09:44:26] <taniwha> best to do it where it costs the least, which could potentially be anywhere enroout
L128[09:55:11] <hatrix> report https://imgur.com/a/2b3xyLF
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L130[10:06:47] <darsie> hatrix: What were the mission objectives/achievements?
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L132[10:09:55] <hatrix> tourism
L133[10:10:11] <hatrix> and got some science back from orbit / ground
L134[10:10:11] <darsie> 1 tourist to Dres and back?
L135[10:10:17] <hatrix> oh no, just the probe
L136[10:10:26] <hatrix> I've never been to Dres and wanted to see what it was like
L137[10:10:30] <darsie> One probe there. Which science?
L138[10:10:56] <hatrix> you're being really inquisive :)
L139[10:10:59] <darsie> mhm
L140[10:11:13] <darsie> I think I can do it with a much smaller rocket.
L141[10:11:50] <hatrix> yep, this one has too much Δv
L142[10:12:04] <hatrix> with a proper transfer window and transfer burn it should be easier
L143[10:15:55] <darsie> Ok, no mission for me, then.
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L148[11:19:01] <Althego> scott
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L156[12:46:51] <hatrix> I think it's finally time to make some planes
L157[12:47:24] <hatrix> is there something similar to Δv for planes?
L158[12:47:41] <hatrix> like, how do I know how much fuel I need to get to some place?
L159[12:49:54] <raptop> Range, specific fuel consumption at various speeds/altitudes, etc?
L160[12:54:27] <hatrix> the new bare skipper is super sexy :o
L161[12:54:38] <hatrix> for example raptop
L162[12:55:12] <raptop> These tend to be annoyingly craft dependent
L163[12:55:23] <raptop> Planes are more complicated than rockets
L164[13:02:04] <Althego> also depend on speed and altitude
L165[13:02:18] <hatrix> hmm https://i.imgur.com/JY10GBw.png
L166[13:02:20] <hatrix> …
L167[13:03:06] <Althego> you can get so high that your thrust is low, but as long as it doesnt eat up your cruise speed, you are very efficient. but if you go higher you get slower nad lose that efficiency. never even tried to calculate the optimal altitude for max travel distance
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L170[13:10:08] <hatrix> ok, boom again
L171[13:10:53] <Althego> so in a bit more than 1 day another attempt to launch an astra rocket
L172[13:14:28] <hatrix> ok, it flies :D
L173[13:14:52] <hatrix> https://i.imgur.com/pD4LpfG.png
L174[13:15:07] <hatrix> are those the correct wings though?
L175[13:16:17] <raptop> If it flies right, it looks right
L176[13:16:20] <Althego> hehe
L177[13:16:29] <raptop> (that anguished scream you just heard is the ghost of Bill Lear)
L178[13:16:31] <Althego> yes, no "correct" way to do it
L179[13:16:51] <Althego> i usually give wings a tiny bit of angle
L180[13:17:02] <Althego> so they generate lift at zero attitude
L181[13:17:03] <hatrix> it's a bit wobbly though
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L183[13:17:08] <raptop> Also I like that someone else has discovered that you can skimp on vstabs in some craft
L184[13:17:33] <hatrix> vstabs?
L185[13:17:38] <Althego> vertical stabilizer
L186[13:18:28] <hatrix> oh, those ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L187[13:18:35] <hatrix> looks like I don't need them
L188[13:18:52] <Althego> http://warpology.com/x/spring_stabilizer.jpg
L189[13:18:59] <Althego> seems they didnt need one either :)
L190[13:19:07] <hatrix> eh
L191[13:19:31] <Althego> or it is a stabilzier on earth :)
L192[13:20:19] <hatrix> I feel like planes have infinite Δv
L193[13:20:32] <Althego> not anymore
L194[13:20:40] <Althego> remember the infiniglide bug?
L195[13:20:54] <raptop> Not infinite, but several kilosecond Isp, and I think that ignores that you get oxidizer for free?
L196[13:21:11] <Althego> you vcould take of just by moving the control surfaces, then stay in the air and accelerate past sound barrier because of sas oscillations
L197[13:21:31] <hatrix> yeah, forgot to remove the oxidizer from the tank also
L198[13:21:46] <hatrix> lol really Althego?
L199[13:22:30] <raptop> Yeah, old aero was wild
L200[13:23:05] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5li7rSVyJY
L201[13:23:05] <kmath> YouTube - Kerbal Space Program - A Small Demonstration Of Infiniglide
L202[13:23:56] <hatrix> planes are quite peaceful
L203[13:24:01] <hatrix> it's relaxing to fly them
L204[13:24:08] <Althego> also boring
L205[13:24:12] <hatrix> yes ^
L206[13:24:14] <Althego> still better than rovers
L207[13:24:29] <Althego> you never get anywhere with them, so slow
L208[13:24:44] <Althego> and you also flip just because some pebble
L209[13:25:45] <hatrix> wow, I managed to land and not explode
L210[13:26:49] <raptop> yay
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L212[14:04:03] <hatrix> raptop: it definitely flies better like that though https://i.imgur.com/vRAuIzh.png
L213[14:08:56] <darsie> hatrix: This VTOL one is definitely not a fighter plane, but flies very well around Kerbin: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot36.png
L214[14:09:28] <darsie> -one
L215[14:09:39] <hatrix> ahah
L216[14:09:42] <darsie> :)
L217[14:09:54] <hatrix> I'm stalling too quickly, I need more lift
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L220[14:13:45] <hatrix> does it have some gimball darsie?
L221[14:13:50] <hatrix> or reaction wheels only?
L222[14:17:20] <darsie> RW only.
L223[14:17:34] <darsie> It uses that tiny jet engine.
L224[14:17:58] <darsie> Forgot the name.
L225[14:18:02] <darsie> Juno?
L226[14:18:17] <hatrix> I only have the wheesley turbofan
L227[14:18:49] <darsie> What, How can you not have the first jet engine?
L228[14:19:29] <darsie> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/J-20_%22Juno%22_Basic_Jet_Engine
L229[14:20:18] <hatrix> hmm
L230[14:20:20] <hatrix> not sure
L231[14:20:35] <hatrix> maybe I need to research "aviation"?
L232[14:20:58] <darsie> Yeah, but you already have the Wheesley?!
L233[14:21:14] <darsie> Did you research out of order?
L234[14:21:21] <hatrix> wait$
L235[14:21:54] <hatrix> aaah :)
L236[14:21:59] <darsie> :)
L237[14:22:32] <hatrix> https://i.imgur.com/nmAiA6z.png
L238[14:22:42] <darsie> ic :)
L239[14:23:10] <hatrix> I see why I have so many parts now
L240[14:23:13] <hatrix> but not the basics
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L242[14:23:45] <Althego> there area few good engines among advanced airplane parts
L243[14:24:18] <darsie> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Technology_tree shows The entire tree as of 1.0.4.
L244[14:24:23] <hatrix> I just unlocked them
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L246[14:37:25] <hatrix> does this navball look ok? https://i.imgur.com/jnpxGJs.png
L247[14:37:34] <hatrix> or should I change the angle so that I'm not going up so much?
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L250[14:39:59] <darsie> looks ok, whi?
L251[14:40:16] <hatrix> don't know, thought it's going up too much
L252[14:40:27] <darsie> You angled your wings, right?
L253[14:40:30] <hatrix> yep
L254[14:40:50] <darsie> So you're flying up and your pod is facing forward. Seems ok.
L255[14:41:09] <hatrix> ok thanks
L256[14:41:09] <darsie> Low drag for your fuselage.
L257[14:59:10] <hatrix> aren't there propellers?
L258[15:03:48] <darsie> no :(
L259[15:03:52] <darsie> No electric props.
L260[15:03:59] <darsie> In some DLC, I think.
L261[15:04:19] <hatrix> ><
L262[15:04:23] <Althego> you can build them, but that means you have to build a bearing
L263[15:04:30] <hatrix> I wanted to make a Pilatus PC6
L264[15:04:31] <Althego> a really hard task
L265[15:05:13] <Althego> i succeeded with that only once out of many tries, and still it was way bigger than what others built
L266[15:05:29] <hatrix> I'm gonna try :)
L267[15:07:10] <hatrix> ok, looks really hard
L268[15:07:44] <hatrix> I hate DLCs :(
L269[15:35:04] <hatrix> ok planes are fun :D
L270[15:35:24] <hatrix> I'm definitely going to make some SSTO
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L272[15:40:05] <Guest31615> Hey guys
L273[15:40:07] <Guest31615> quick question
L274[15:40:09] <Althego> building an ssto in stock ksp is relatively easy
L275[15:40:19] <Althego> building one that actually does something, now that is hard
L276[15:40:19] <hatrix> what would make it harder?
L277[15:40:19] <Guest31615> Does anyone know what mod pack has the long big-s delta wings in it?
L278[15:40:26] <Guest31615> Where they're longer deltas?
L279[15:40:28] <hatrix> ah :)
L280[15:43:43] <Guest31615> Anyone know?
L281[15:43:51] <Althego> i dont
L282[15:44:46] <hatrix> me neither
L283[15:49:29] <Guest31615> darn :(
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L286[16:04:03] * darsie returned a Mun surface sample with an SSTO. Mhm, it was tricky. The landing.
L287[16:05:05] <darsie> Second rocket can be SSTO.
L288[16:06:46] <darsie> Probably even the first one, if someone walks around the KSC making EVA reports. Hmm, but can only make one per walk ...
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L290[16:10:41] <hatrix> do you have screenshots?
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L293[16:43:38] <hatrix> my plane can't keep still on the runway
L294[16:43:41] <hatrix> they always swerve
L295[16:43:48] <hatrix> how can I avoid that?
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L297[16:55:17] <hatrix> also how do you handle landing gears? this is quite ugly https://i.imgur.com/pGO1ejX.png
L298[16:59:10] <hatrix> and it flies terribly https://i.imgur.com/JnFxqDa.png
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L301[18:06:08] <darsie> hatrix: Oddly, I can't find them.
L302[18:08:06] <raptop> I have questions about CoL vs CoM. Also possibly needs larger control surfaces in the tail area/hstab?
L303[18:10:12] <darsie> what?
L304[18:10:44] <raptop> For hatrix's comment on that plane flying terribly
L305[18:10:54] <darsie> Keep the com before col if you want it to be stable.
L306[18:11:11] <raptop> And that it apparently needs a lot of control input for level-ish flight
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