OCLogs: 2020-03-20.log

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L28[07:02:38] <Judge_Dedd> Playing with the Dv maps and the Dv indicator is so much more fun

L29[07:03:34] <Judge_Dedd> It's been a long time since I built proper rockets - for years I've been messing around with spaceplanes. So this is actually new for me, even though it came out several versions ago

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L31[07:06:27] <Althego> sometimes the stock indicator failes and doesnt have indication. maybe it was fixed since then, but was very annoying

L32[07:06:49] <Judge_Dedd> Huh. I haven't experienced that yet

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L35[07:13:10] <hatrix> it's been a long since I've made something really ugly https://i.imgur.com/tiMNEFy.png

L36[07:13:35] <Althego> hehe

L37[07:13:39] <Althego> call it utilitarian

L38[07:13:42] <hatrix> yeah same problem, I'm doing the Δv calculations by hand

L39[07:13:47] <hatrix> I don't trust the stock game

L40[07:13:58] <Althego> it is ok most of the time in the editor

L41[07:14:12] <Althego> the problem is when it loses the indication during flight

L42[07:14:45] <darsie> hatrix: Do you use a slide rule to calculate the ln or do you taylor series on paper? :)

L43[07:14:54] <Althego> hehehe

L44[07:15:07] <Althego> i used to put the numbers to apcalc

L45[07:15:21] <hatrix> by hand I mean a python script

L46[07:15:33] <Althego> but back then the mass was only available in flight map

L47[07:15:55] <hatrix> http://paste.awesom.eu/qMIA

L48[07:15:58] <Althego> so you had to actually fly it and write down the numbers

L49[07:16:06] <hatrix> ahah not convenient

L50[07:17:59] <Judge_Dedd> hatrix, I'm a little concerned about the angle of those landing legs. Doesn't it bounce around?

L51[07:18:12] <hatrix> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

L52[07:18:14] <hatrix> we'll see

L53[07:19:28] <Judge_Dedd> Hmm, come to think of it, a great QOL improvement to the landing legs would be if we could rotate them without the base moving. Maybe that's too nuanced to be worth the devs' time

L54[07:20:02] <hatrix> yep, it's ugly as of right now

L55[07:20:08] <hatrix> but that's the only problem

L56[07:25:50] <hatrix> also, why is the "extra large -> large" adapter in fuels and not structures like the other ones?

L57[07:26:20] <darsie> Because it's a tank.

L58[07:26:26] <hatrix> ah.

L59[07:26:40] <hatrix> might explain some things

L60[07:27:49] <Althego> originally it didnt have fuel

L61[07:27:59] <Althego> but it was a player request

L62[07:28:07] <Althego> so fuel was added not long ago

L63[07:29:30] <hatrix> oh ok, I should read the changelogs I guess

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L70[07:38:47] <Judge_Dedd> Would have been good to have it is both categories

L71[07:38:51] <Judge_Dedd> in

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L75[07:59:20] <hatrix> what are your scanner designs?

L76[07:59:26] <hatrix> I've got this but not nearly enough solar panels https://i.imgur.com/sWdXKqK.png

L77[07:59:45] <Althego> i think for a long time now you can d your own categories

L78[07:59:50] <Althego> add

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L80[08:00:42] <hatrix> :o

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L82[08:03:55] <hatrix> TIL that plane changes are really long with ion engines

L83[08:05:29] <Mat2ch> jep

L84[08:05:32] <Mat2ch> use physics warp...

L85[08:05:48] <Judge_Dedd> hatrix, Quickest and most efficient, I believe, is to extend orbit to highly elliptical, and do your plane change at the highest (slowest) point of the orbit. Even if you then circularise the orbit again, the total game time and fuel used should be less.

L86[08:06:40] <hatrix> oh, that's smart

L87[08:06:48] <hatrix> I circularized and then did the plane change :/

L88[08:06:56] <Judge_Dedd> Doh

L89[08:12:34] <hatrix> ok so the Δv calc in the VAB is not the same as in flight

L90[08:12:49] <hatrix> some fuel doesn't flow to the engine in flight

L91[08:12:58] <hatrix> so less Δv, but the VAB displayed it…

L92[08:13:07] <hatrix> or is there an option somewhere to activate that flow?

L93[08:14:13] <hatrix> I don't see the in/out buttons

L94[08:17:45] <Judge_Dedd> Could the VAB setting have been calculating for in atmosphere?

L95[08:18:03] <Judge_Dedd> No wait, that would have been the opposite problem

L96[08:20:00] <Judge_Dedd> hatrix, do you have some screenshots for that?

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L100[08:55:58] <hatrix> or maybe I was doing it by hand and forgot that kind of thing?

L101[08:56:00] <hatrix> :|

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L109[10:34:48] <hatrix> https://imgur.com/a/bGBTBev finally :)

L110[10:43:36] <Mat2ch> link not working :(

L111[10:47:42] <hatrix> yeah my internet is not working anymore

L112[10:47:45] <hatrix> it's not uploading

L113[10:56:01] <Mat2ch> now they're there

L114[10:57:14] <hatrix> I'll add more and some text though

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L117[12:04:04] <lordcirth_> KER is better, thoug

L118[12:03:59] <darsie> I use KER.

L119[12:03:46] <Althego> in fact that should be the default

L120[12:03:45] <raptop> You can, though I think you can't change the default

L121[12:03:34] <lordcirth_> darsie, yes, you can

L122[12:03:14] <Althego> the calculator thingies?

L123[12:02:41] <darsie> You can set the VAB dv for vacuum?

L124[12:04:10] <Althego> a little bit

L125[12:06:02] <packbart> it defaults to atmospheric dV, iirc

L126[12:06:20] <packbart> oh, right. I was lagging a bit

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L128[12:07:29] <darsie> Easy to change, though.

L129[12:08:13] <lordcirth_> Do you guys have terrible internet this week too? Must be overloaded.

L130[12:08:23] <Althego> didnt notice anything

L131[12:09:11] <lordcirth_> I thought it was just my VPN to work (which didn't help). But even before I turned it on this morning, my internet barely works

L132[12:09:34] <darsie> UPC looks ok in Austria/Vienna.

L133[12:09:45] <Althego> supposedly there is an increased load because of the human malware

L134[12:09:55] <lordcirth_> Canada has pretty bad internet in general, though.

L135[12:10:20] <raptop> lordcirth_: all cell tethering for me right now

L136[12:13:22] <packbart> as far as I know, internet backhaul is traditionally oversubscribed (or rather underprovisioned)

L137[12:13:43] <darsie> On Kerbin your orbital velocity is ~2200 m/s, so you need ~2200*sqrt(2) m/s for a 90 deg plane change. But with ~700 m/s you can get to a high orbit where the plane change is cheap, and then circularize back.

L138[12:13:48] <packbart> people staying home, watching streams and using remote desktops and video conferencing didn't fit the usage model

L139[12:14:35] <darsie> Not sure about sqrt(2).

L140[12:15:10] <packbart> I think remember a forum thread about optimal plane change maneuvers

L141[12:15:24] <darsie> But I guess that's the sum of -2200+2200.

L142[12:28:31] <raptop> I want to type that a 90 degree plane change without messing with your semi-major axis ends up being ~v (2200 m/s)

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L149[14:28:40] <Ivanlol151> hello

L150[14:28:43] <Mod9000> Hello, Ivanlol151

L151[14:29:13] <Deddly> Hey Ivanlol151

L152[14:29:20] <Ivanlol151> you can do questions here?

L153[14:29:58] <packbart> maybe

L154[14:30:08] <Deddly> Of course :)

L155[14:30:50] <Althego> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/fla7dv/stabilized_rover_prototype/

L156[14:31:34] <Ivanlol151> How do I reply to a message on forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com?

L157[14:31:35] <Althego> https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/fil7la/how_to_launch_planes_without_a_runway/

L158[14:32:42] <Deddly> Ivanlol151, do you have an account?

L159[14:32:53] <Ivanlol151> yes

L160[14:33:33] <packbart> I copy the text I want to reply to and click the "reply button" that shows up

L161[14:33:44] <packbart> select, not copy

L162[14:37:00] <Deddly> Ivanlol151, at the bottom of the page, you should be able to see "reply to this topic".

L163[14:37:12] <Deddly> Ivanlol151, if you click there, you can type

L164[14:37:50] <darsie> raptop: You can get a 90 deg plane change by stopping (2200 m/s) followed by 90 deg acceleration to 2200 m/s. These two vectors should add up to 2200*sqrt(2) m/s, hmm?

L165[14:38:32] <raptop> hrm

L166[14:39:17] <Althego> human resource management

L167[14:39:18] <Ivanlol151> but i want to reply to the person that say a thing

L168[14:39:44] <Ivanlol151> I do not know how to explain myself

L169[14:39:54] <Deddly> Ivanlol151, In that case, in that person's post, click the blue text at the bottom that says "Quote"

L170[14:40:14] <Ivanlol151> yessss thanks

L171[14:40:21] <Deddly> You are welcome :)

L172[14:40:28] <Ivanlol151> you are a good

L173[14:40:32] <Ivanlol151> god

L174[14:40:36] <Ivanlol151> my god

L175[14:41:05] <Deddly> LOL I am a regular person ;)

L176[14:41:15] <raptop> op, god, what is the difference?

L177[14:42:22] <Ivanlol151> im going to leave and thanks

L178[14:42:32] ⇦ Parts: Ivanlol151 (Ivanlol151!webchat@52.red-88-13-206.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) (webchat.esper.net))

L179[14:42:35] <Deddly> Glad we could help, bye

L180[14:43:11] * darsie is an irregular person.

L181[14:46:32] * raptop chooses to interpret that as darsie being a small non-spherical moon of a gas giant. Possibly orbiting retrograde

L182[14:46:59] <Althego> hehehe

L183[14:47:07] <darsie> :)

L184[14:47:53] <darsie> I'm about 6 nls tall, IIRC.

L185[14:48:10] <raptop> nanosecond is a fun length unit

L186[14:48:23] <darsie> nanolightsecond* ;)

L187[14:48:28] <Althego> but you can measure time in meters :)

L188[14:48:51] <raptop> Yes, and that always felt weird in my Relativity class

L189[14:49:14] <Althego> for me too

L190[14:49:39] <darsie> Must be m/c.

L191[14:50:19] <darsie> Even if c=1.

L192[14:52:27] <darsie> What's the average particle size in Saturns rings?

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L194[14:55:15] <raptop> Uh, I'd poke arχiv or NASA ADS for something on the ring composition?

L195[14:55:34] <raptop> I want to say small, since Voyager 2 and Pioneer 11 went through the ring plane just fine

L196[14:55:52] * raptop wonders if Cassini's Grand Finale got some good data

L197[14:59:00] <raptop> Feh, I'm going to have to use the good bird website for literature search purposes

L198[14:59:30] <Althego> good bird?

L199[15:00:47] <raptop> sci-hub

L200[15:00:55] <raptop> contrast with Twitter, which is the bad bird website

L201[15:02:08] <raptop> ...optical depth is nice and all, but not what I'm looking for >_< https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1016/B978-0-12-409548-9.11924-4

L202[15:04:16] <raptop> Ahah https://sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/10.1017/9781316286791.003.

L203[15:05:24] <raptop> Some fitting required to work with the equations

L204[15:09:50] <raptop> So if I'm understanding this correctly, max size ~1-10 m, number density is proportional to radius^-3?

L205[15:10:38] <raptop> Particles skew heavily towards various ices instead of rock IIRC

L206[15:11:11] <Althego> so it is some kind of pulverized ice cream

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L208[15:11:30] <raptop> Don't tell Minmus

L209[15:11:52] <raptop> hrm that power law makes it sound like equal amounts of mass in each size bin

L210[15:13:52] <raptop> Sizes go down into the millimeter range, I'm unclear about smaller

L211[15:14:38] <Althego> i am so sleepy i cant move to the bed

L212[15:18:36] <raptop> oh no

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L222[19:40:37] <SnoopJeDi> work on JWST suspended

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L224[19:45:51] <darsie> Will it remain too big to fail?

L225[19:46:39] <UmbralRaptop> probably

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