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L32[05:35:20] <Eddi|zuHause> so,
irrespective of all the unupdated mods, should i try salvaging my
last carreer save? otherwise i'll start over and get exactly as far
as every time, which is i'm never reaching duna/eve or any other
place outside kerbin SoI
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L34[05:53:21] <packbart> I know that
problem
L35[06:07:20] <hatrix> that's why I'm
playing stock
L36[06:07:28] <hatrix> and struggling with
everything
L37[06:08:29] <Eddi|zuHause> "last
played: 27. Okt 2018", that can't be right
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L39[06:20:32] <Eddi|zuHause> so, starting
up the game it complained about FAR more than all the other mods...
anything i should know?
L40[06:23:31] <Deddly> Eddi|zuHause, why
not just continue with your old save until the mods have been
updated, and only then upgrade KSP?
L41[06:24:24] <Eddi|zuHause> nah
L42[06:25:24] <Deddly> Eddi|zuHause, what
version is FAR officially compatible with?
L43[06:26:55] <Eddi|zuHause> so, load menu
still not sorted by file date...
L44[06:27:11] <Eddi|zuHause> also, i click
"load" and it doesn't do anything
L45[06:31:16] <Eddi|zuHause> console just
says "nullreferenceexception"
L46[06:36:46] <Eddi|zuHause> according to
CKAN FAR Continued is compatible with 1.8.99
L47[06:37:12] <Eddi|zuHause> i try without
it now
L48[06:40:21] <Eddi|zuHause> yeah, loading
now
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L50[06:48:37] <Deddly> 1.8.99??
L51[06:49:07] <Eddi|zuHause> i assume that
means 1.8.*
L52[06:49:39] <Eddi|zuHause> as in
"we're confident that no 1.8.x update will break
this"
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L55[07:02:36] <UmbralRaptor> sounds
right
L56[07:06:20] <packbart> the version thing
has become more confusing than useful, I think. linuxgurugamer
doesn't even set the max version anymore
L57[07:08:23] <Mat2ch> I guess for some
mods there's just no reason to set a max version
L58[07:08:37] <Mat2ch> as long as the API
is not changing they will just work fine
L59[07:09:34] <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm
declaring FAR as "known broken" for 1.9
L60[07:10:03] <Eddi|zuHause> nothing else
seems to have any immediately obvious problem
L61[07:11:21] <packbart> Eddi|zuHause: the
forum thread says you should try the pre-release if you want
FAR
L62[07:11:27] <Eddi|zuHause> now, last
thing i was doing is trying to get my minimus base further uphill
to get out of the one spot on north pole that doesn't get any
sun
L63[07:11:39] <Eddi|zuHause> packbart: have
a link?
L65[07:14:44] <Eddi|zuHause> anyway, i'm
assuming i don't need FAR outside the atmosphere, so i'll just
continue like this for now
L66[07:18:38] <Mat2ch> Eddi|zuHause: well,
if you only build bases an Minmus no wonder you never get to Duna
;)
L67[07:18:58] <Eddi|zuHause> tipping over
sideways and rolling on minimus is so silly, but seems to be
working :p
L68[07:19:27] <Eddi|zuHause> but i never
know which of the WASD keys turns me the direction i want
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L70[07:23:05] <hatrix> I got the same
problem :D
L71[07:25:37] <Eddi|zuHause> i REALLY need
the load game window sorted by date :/
L72[07:27:08] <Mat2ch> Eddi|zuHause: write
a bug report :)
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L74[07:28:51] <Eddi|zuHause> huh, i loaded
an autosave and my rocket disappeared
L75[07:34:36] <Eddi|zuHause> and now it
crashed
L76[07:34:44] <Eddi|zuHause> the game, not
the rocket
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L85[08:17:32] <hatrix> why does it look
weird?
L86[08:17:33] <Althego> argh, space after
paren
L87[08:18:44] <hatrix> would creating a
modular base, assembling it in space and land it on Eve work?
L88[08:18:53] <hatrix> from a structural
point of view
L89[08:18:55] <packbart> hatrix: it needs
to be adjusted for every new version. since new changes aren't
predictable, I'd test for >= 8
L90[08:19:10] <Althego> the question is,
would it work from heat point of view
L91[08:19:42] <hatrix> packbart: I see it
as a limiter for which version of KSP it works, no problem
there
L92[08:19:46] <hatrix> but I didn't look at
the code
L93[08:20:00] <hatrix> Althego: with enough
heatshields I guess
L94[08:20:10] <hatrix> I just wanted to
know if docking ports are sturdy enough
L95[08:20:18] <Althego> probably
L96[08:20:28] <Althego> you can turn on
autostruts in flight after assembly
L97[08:20:40] <hatrix> yep, I was thinking
about this
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L99[08:21:02] <hatrix> I'll make some
prototypes in sandbox, I'm tired of spending money on garbage
crafts
L100[08:21:12] <hatrix> (oh, hi)
L101[08:21:18] <darsie> I had a docking
port on a long pile of 200 EC batteries. It flexed insanely.
Switched to cubic struts.
L102[08:21:22] <packbart> hatrix: those
limits often lead to confusion and are not necessary. imho, ymmv.
it works with 1.9 even without that change
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L110[09:07:06] <Althego> a rare find
L111[09:07:16] <Eddi|zuHause> i kinda wish
i could tell SAS a heading and keep it on that
L112[09:07:35] <Althego> there used to be
a mod for this
L113[09:07:39] <Althego> some pilot
something
L114[09:07:50] <Althego> for
airplanes
L115[09:08:11] <Althego> actually for the
shortest route you dont want to keep heading
L116[09:08:12] <packbart> MechJeb and
others
L117[09:09:07] <darsie> Althego: An
asteroid randomly takes its final shape/size etc. when you get to
within 2.2 km. So I stop beyond that, save, then approach it as
often till I find one I like.
L118[09:09:17] <Althego> hehe
L119[09:09:26] <darsie> s/size/mass
L120[09:09:29] <Althego> the good old save
and retry method
L121[09:09:33] <darsie> ore content
...
L122[09:09:52] <darsie> This time I wanted
a lightweight magic one.
L123[09:09:59] <darsie> Easier to
push.
L124[09:10:19] <Eddi|zuHause> FAR has
"flight assistance toggles" but i have no clue what they
do
L125[09:10:58] <Blu3wolf> @Althego: not
always true. For points directly north or south of you, a constant
heading is the shortest route.
L126[09:11:43] <Althego> that is why i
said it. unlike really specific scenarios you must change heading
for shortest route
L127[09:12:08] <Althego> in the general
case
L128[09:12:22] <Blu3wolf> Technically, you
dont need to change heading so much as that your heading will
change on its own. You are still going the same direction.
L129[09:12:46] <Althego> yes, but if you
have a heading setpoint on a compass, that must move
L130[09:12:57] <Althego> so for long
distance navigation that would not be a good solution
L131[09:13:17] <Blu3wolf> Correct. There
is a (now obsolete) workaround for this problem.
L132[09:13:52] <Blu3wolf> You plan your
flight in legs of 100 miles or so, and take up a new heading for
each leg.
L133[09:14:21] <Blu3wolf> this lets you
maintain a compass heading, while gaining the benefits of great
circle navigation.
L134[09:14:45] <Althego> hah, i dont
believe you. nobody would use miles :)
L135[09:14:51] <Eddi|zuHause> well, i
could do that, but i'm not travelling that far anyway
L136[09:15:17] <Blu3wolf> Actually, pretty
much everyone uses (nautical) miles for aviation.
L137[09:15:34] <Althego> yes, nautical
miles
L138[09:15:37] <Blu3wolf> China and Russia
being good counter-examples
L139[09:15:38] <Althego> not miles
L140[09:15:50] <Blu3wolf> miles != statute
miles
L141[09:16:02] <Blu3wolf> miles is the set
that contains nautical miles and statute miles
L142[09:16:36] <Althego> the only non si
unit i can think of as making some sense is the nautical miles.
maybe knots along with it
L143[09:16:38] <Blu3wolf> and just for the
heck of it, it also contains country miles
L144[09:16:41] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm also not
technically doing aviation :p
L145[09:17:18] <Blu3wolf> Over a short
distance, you can safely ignore great circles as having an
appreciable impact on your navigation
L146[09:17:26] <Althego> obviosuly
L147[09:17:37] <Althego> thus flat
earthers are born
L148[09:18:04] <Blu3wolf> people who dont
navigate long distance? Makes sense. People can travel a long way
these days without having to think much... hmm.
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L150[09:25:10] <Eddi|zuHause> my current
problem is that i'm rolling constantly (intentionally) and that
means correcting for heading needs a different WASD key at every
moment in time, so i can only do that if i stop rolling
L151[09:25:40] <Althego> ah yes i know
that problem
L152[09:25:58] <Althego> but i dont use
that for longer distances than from the launchpad to the vab area
:)
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L154[09:34:20] <Eddi|zuHause> distance
left is about 2.5km, not sure how precisely i have set the
waypoint
L155[09:42:03] <Althego> will martian
settlers use km or martian mile for navigation? :)
L156[09:42:38] <Blu3wolf> Id vote for
km
L157[09:43:36] <Blu3wolf> Im sure at some
point aviation will end up moving to metric in the rest of the
world outside the former soviet republics + China
L158[09:44:12] <Eddi|zuHause> Althego:
depends on if they elect a "mars first" guy as a leader
that, whatever everyone else thinks, does the opposite.
L159[09:44:13] <Blu3wolf> If we have a
multiple planet society, it makes sense to have standards common
everywhere
L160[09:44:41] <Blu3wolf> And taking
nautical miles and using them elsewhere takes away all the
usefulness they have on Earth
L161[09:44:59] <Eddi|zuHause> Blu3wolf:
politics on that level rarely happens based on "it makes
sense"
L162[09:45:26] <Blu3wolf> Depends on who
is setting the standard. If its a politician, then of course. If
its an engineer/scientist....
L163[09:45:34] <Blu3wolf> Note that NASA
is using metric.
L164[09:45:39] <Eddi|zuHause> it'll never
be an engineer/scientist
L165[09:46:16] <Blu3wolf> I have to say,
it feels weird flying an aircraft with metric instrumentation
L166[09:46:20] <Althego> trust me i'm an
engineer :)
L167[09:46:39] <Blu3wolf> Ive got a little
time in a CJ-6A and its just weird flying at 330m instead of
1000ft
L168[09:47:31] <Althego> never flew in any
cockpit that was not a simulator :)
L169[09:47:41] <Eddi|zuHause> but that's
only because you got taught it that way, not that one way is better
than the other
L170[09:47:53] <Blu3wolf> thats the point
Im making :)
L171[09:48:24] <Althego> si is better.
defeated by a single question. how many feet in a mile?
L172[09:48:31] <Blu3wolf> 6000
L173[09:48:37] <packbart> NASA uses a mix
of systems and can use "meter" and "feet" in
the same sentence
L174[09:49:07] <Althego> also all units
for electricity are si, probably doesnt mix well with imperial
units
L175[09:49:15] <Blu3wolf> Didnt know that
about NASA, but its true in aviation
L176[09:49:42] <Althego> if they used
millimiles for altitude i would be content
L177[09:49:43] <Blu3wolf> vis is in meters
and kilometers, altitude is in feet, separation is in feet,
distances are in nautical miles...
L178[09:49:47] <Althego> but no, they use
feet
L179[09:50:18] <Blu3wolf> except in the
US, where vis is in statute miles (!)
L180[09:50:44] <Blu3wolf> really dont
understand that. Why mix nautical miles and statute miles!??
L181[09:51:26] <Althego> souls on board
and fuel remaining
L182[09:51:40] <Althego> fuel in pounds,
kg, tonnes, minutes
L183[09:51:59] <Blu3wolf> fuel is a
PAIN
L184[09:52:00] <Althego> at least counting
people is not that complicated
L185[09:52:14] <Eddi|zuHause> 1.9km
L186[09:52:39] <Blu3wolf> aircraft are
american, so the manual will have fuel in pounds. But the placards
are local, and the ops manual is local, so the limits are in
litres
L187[09:52:56] <Althego> hehe
L188[09:53:10] <Althego> still better than
timezones :)
L189[09:53:12] <Blu3wolf> and technically:
fuel isnt measured in minutes - endurance is
L190[09:53:35] <Blu3wolf> whats wrong with
timezones?
L191[09:53:52] <packbart> the one NASA
text I thought of was talking about Curiosity's skycrane extending
a 20ft rope 6m above the surface
L192[09:53:54] <Althego> nothing. except
they change their location and offset from time to time
L193[09:53:58] <packbart> can't find that
anymore
L194[09:54:23] <Blu3wolf> I mean, Id argue
that the timezones themselves dont move
L195[09:54:33] <Althego> their edges
move
L196[09:54:39] <Blu3wolf> Just that some
areas decide to observe a different timezone from time to
time
L197[09:54:54] <Althego> ther are also
half out and quarter our offsets too
L198[09:54:56] <Blu3wolf> they arent a
geographic concept to have 'edges'
L199[09:55:28] <Blu3wolf> watch is set to
zulu time, no matter where I go. Keeps it simple for me
L200[09:55:35] <Althego> hehe
L201[09:55:52] <Blu3wolf> although I might
need to set it because it looks a couple minutes fast :/
L202[09:55:59] <Blu3wolf> showing 1557
atm
L203[09:56:27] <Althego> only 56 now
:)
L204[09:56:36] <Althego> (in a same
timezone)
L205[09:56:42] <Blu3wolf> tis not a
terribly expensive watch :/
L206[09:57:07] <Althego> *sane
timezone
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L208[10:09:02] <Rokker> guess what ima go
see one last time before it goes back to Washington
L209[10:09:29] <Althego> trump's
hair?
L210[10:11:07] <Rokker> huh, I thought
politics was still banned
L211[10:11:16] <Althego> hair is not
politics
L212[10:11:21] <Rokker> the Columbia
module
L213[10:12:41] <Mat2ch> Althego: one
question that bothers me is still if it is sentient or not.
L214[10:16:03] <Eddi|zuHause> 1km...
L215[10:19:34] <hatrix> where is it now
Rokker?
L216[10:19:45] <Althego> it can be only
one place :)
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L218[10:21:43] <packbart> they totally
should put wheels on it and use it as a bus
L219[10:21:59] <hatrix> where is it?
:o
L220[10:22:39] <packbart> oh right, I was
thinking of a Shuttle, not a Module
L221[10:22:55] <Althego> use what? rocker?
or the columbia module? not really a bus with place for only 3
people
L222[10:23:09] <packbart> hatrix: "As
of September 28, 2019, the spacecraft is on display temporarily at
the Cincinnati Museum Center."
L224[10:24:02] <Eddi|zuHause> not quite
there yet, but at least i got sunlight here to recharge
L225[10:24:09] <packbart> Althego: name
collision. and I remembered that the Columbia shuttle did not make
it back
L226[10:24:25] <Althego> too few labels
and too many things :)
L227[10:24:37] <Althego> maybe we should
just number everything like astronomers do :)
L228[10:25:01] <Althego> we could use say
256 bit unique hashes :)
L229[10:25:34] <packbart> like
TMA-nnn?
L230[10:25:43] <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds
not nearly enough
L231[10:26:14] ⇦
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L232[10:28:25] <hatrix> uuid4
L233[10:29:14] <packbart> names should be
human-readable
L234[10:29:26] <Althego> tha we just need
to change humans
L235[10:29:35] <Althego> then
L236[10:29:38] <packbart> that's overdue,
anyway
L237[10:30:04] <Eddi|zuHause> packbart: if
they sold us "XML is human-readable", then surely hashes
are
L238[10:30:11] <Althego> hehehe
L239[10:30:32] <Althego> thousand other
formats, json, yaml, toml
L240[10:30:39] <Althego> and none work
well :)
L242[10:31:13] <hatrix> ahah nice
L243[10:34:10] <darsie> I wonder if it
saves delta-v. The new orbit is more eccentric. But I want an
equatorial orbit. We'll see how well the asteroid tolerates
aerobraking. I'm afraid not enough.
L244[10:36:15] <hatrix> can asteroids
desintegrate in atmospheres?
L245[10:37:30] <packbart> yes, they can
overheat
L246[10:38:26] <packbart> maxTemp = 2500
// way hotter than the melting point of "Ore" but oh
well.
L247[10:39:47] <hatrix> hmmm
L248[10:40:02] <hatrix> would it be easier
to capture an asteroid and use it as a heatshield to land on
eve?
L249[10:40:10] <Althego> melting point of
ore. what is the melting point of boku? :)
L250[10:40:14] <hatrix> in contrast of
using regular heatshields
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L253[10:49:34] <Eddi|zuHause> almost at
the peak now
L254[10:49:40] <packbart> great. I had to
restart Firefox and now the ranty posts on the forum that I were
about to read have already been redacted :)
L255[10:49:54] <packbart> someone didn't
like JNSQ
L256[10:51:41] <Deddly> Redaction for the
w
L257[10:51:46] <Althego> lol elon and the
evangelion tweet
L258[10:54:14] <darsie> If I manage to
pull off this maneuver, I'm the master of chaos, because this is
literally a chaotic situation. And by literally, I literally mean
literally.
L259[10:54:55] <darsie> Not like ...
"She literally broke my heart." ...
L260[10:55:21] <Althego> chaos is
everywhere
L261[10:55:54] <packbart> Chaos wins.
Einstein said so.
L262[10:55:58] <Eddi|zuHause> chaotic
neutral, chaotic good or chaotic evil?
L263[10:56:15] <darsie> Mhm, but tiny
variations in the first flyby have a strong influence on the second
flyby.
L265[10:56:38] <packbart> Like tears of a
unicorn, lost in the rain
L266[10:56:48] <Eddi|zuHause> chaos theory
only has an impact over many flybys
L267[10:57:21] <Althego> a cant yet quote
gloryhammer
L268[10:57:34] <darsie> irl maybe, where
real rocket scientists calculate real trajectories.
L269[10:57:35] <Althego> but i wanna set
the universe on fir
L270[10:57:36] <Althego> e
L271[10:57:55] <Eddi|zuHause> over few
flybys you just need good precision
L272[10:58:29] <darsie> It's still chaos,
cause tiny variations have large effects ... so you need good
precision.
L273[10:59:08] <Eddi|zuHause> no, chaos
means "precision doesn't help you at all"
L274[10:59:17] <Althego> tiny variation
having a huge effect is not chaos. it is just a very steep
function
L275[10:59:47] <Althego> chaos is when
tiny amount of deviation cause completely different history from
the predicted one
L276[11:02:26] <packbart> chaotic
hashes
L277[11:02:54] <Eddi|zuHause> chaos means
no amount of precision will stabilize your output
L278[11:03:49] <Rokker> packbart: Fun fact
the Cincinnati Museum Center is the basis for the Justice Leagues
place
L279[11:04:33] <darsie> I'd say it is
chaos, but not very deep into it.
L280[11:18:45] <Eddi|zuHause> i think i
have found a "good enough" spot for this base... now need
to actually assemble it
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L289[12:22:32] <Althego> hmm, cygnus in 2
hours 20 minutes?
L290[12:22:45] <Althego> it was delayed
several times already
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L293[12:29:27] <kmath> YouTube - Knight
Rider Theme on an Electric Toothbrush, Card Machines and a
Typewriter
L294[12:31:38] <Althego> this reminds me,
there was no wintergatan video this week either
L295[12:44:40] <Mat2ch> yep
L296[12:44:58] <Mat2ch> I'm withdrawl
syndromes
L297[12:45:44] <Mat2ch> *getting
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L300[12:53:04] <Deddly> Mat2ch is
withdrawal symptoms personified
L301[12:53:47] <Mat2ch> Oh yes
L302[12:54:17] <Mat2ch> when I show up,
you suddenly feel like you're missing something all the time
L303[13:08:32] <Deddly> Hehe
L304[13:08:48] <Deddly> It's true! I need
chocolate!
L305[13:09:29] <Mat2ch> that's what you
think, but the feeling wont go away with it
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L310[14:06:05] <Althego> scott
L311[14:06:28] <Althego> in a kerbal
t-shiort
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L313[14:12:57] <Althego> and cygnus moved
to tomorrow
L314[14:13:03] <Althego> that was
exzpected
L315[14:13:09] <Althego> good, i want to
go to bed anyway
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L327[16:10:15] <Eddi|zuHause> so, using
KAS still causes random things to be catapulted into the sky
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L340[18:22:57] <packbart> ooh, KSP shirts.
but no Jebediah Kerman's Junkyard and Spaceship Parts Co. mugs, yet
;/
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L348[19:16:32] <packbart> I seem to
remember Jeb having trouble getting back up there. Now there's a
"[F] Grab" hint. maybe I always missed it
L350[19:24:20] <darsie> All rights
Take-Two Interactive, Inc.
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L355[21:28:38] <darsie> My klaw pivot
jammed. Couldn't correct and almost lost my asteroid. Started
rolling the asteroid to cancel the misalignment on average,
somewhat.
L356[21:28:53] <darsie> reload, restart
didn't help. Gonna try reattach.
L357[21:41:37] <darsie> Got it. Pe is out
of Eve's atmosphere. Asteroid in LEO. Contract complete.
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