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L25[02:36:14] <Einarr> Sigh...gotta love it when a MM patch you're writing doesn't work...at all...
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L39[02:49:11] <packbart> well, that happens :)
L40[02:50:02] <packbart> although the logs or patch output can help. I often forget some syntax thingie, so the patch wouldn't match anything
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L54[02:56:42] <Einarr> Yeah, going through the log now.
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L56[02:59:53] <packbart> can't use "|" or "&" in some of the matches but in others. I often get that wrong. starting KSP with -mm-dump can be useful. it makes MM drop the resulting config tree into _MMCfgOutput/
L57[03:02:45] <Einarr> Anyone had an issue where the portraits of Kerbals on vessels do not show up in the lower right (and none of the associated icons or buttons do either)? Someone on a TeamSpeak I'm on is getting annoyed with the issue and it's new since he upgraded to 1.8.
L58[03:03:11] <kubi> 1.8 is a pile of bugs
L59[03:03:21] <kubi> wait 1-2 patch levels
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L62[03:07:12] <packbart> I remember reading something about portraits and 1.8. was it in the forum or bugtracker, I wonder...
L63[03:07:30] <packbart> ah. no. changelog. "Fix kerbal portraits when launching vessel with multiple kerbals in external command chairs."
L64[03:07:50] <packbart> ok, so maybe that broke something else now ;)
L65[03:09:06] <JVFoxy> those pesky external chairs..
L66[03:09:25] <JVFoxy> actually.. come to think of it, I hadn't used them since... way way back actually.
L67[03:09:58] <packbart> I use them on rovers, usually. less often on things that fly
L68[03:14:57] <JVFoxy> heh.. I did an ultralight plane thing with one seat.
L69[03:16:19] <JVFoxy> having a little difficuties with making small rovers though.. Or at least something that'll fit a cargo plane..
L70[03:20:44] <packbart> your plane is just too small ;) two seats on a Rovemate and a jr docking port on top. this one fits a 2.5m fairing: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspnb.jpg
L71[03:21:06] <packbart> (I don't have a better picture of the rover ;)
L72[03:30:19] <JVFoxy> small?
L73[03:30:33] <JVFoxy> ugh... so that c5 galaxy styled cockpit thing not big enough?
L74[03:31:44] <JVFoxy> I'd ground vehicles parts pack... although, I'm starting to wonder if a few of these mods are dipping a little into needing one or both of the paid expansion packs.
L75[03:32:38] <JVFoxy> I've already run into something on airplanes plus pack, a little rotating light beacon goes a little glitchy if you don't have one of the packs
L76[03:41:31] <packbart> I bought both KSP and MH in a sale, so I didn't really think about it. When BG came around, I was already a fanboi, shutupandtakemymoney :)
L77[03:44:37] <JVFoxy> I would get the exansions but sorta struggling with things as it is... sadly
L78[04:09:13] <Einarr> I was an early adopter, so get the expansions for free...
L79[04:09:50] <Einarr> Best 'pre-order' experience I've ever had is with KSP. :)
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L83[04:31:45] <Deddly> I was an early adopter of Minecraft and KSP.
L84[04:32:24] <Deddly> Well, I say early adopter of Minecraft... I was at least in there whilst it was still in beta, though they had already sold about 4 million copies at the time
L85[04:32:41] <Deddly> I was one of the first 5 million! I'm special!
L86[04:33:29] <Deddly> Interestingly, it was Minecraft that led me to KSP.
L87[04:34:54] <Deddly> I saw a video of a MC mod called Galacticraft where you could build a rocket and fly it to the moon or Mars, and I thought, "It's a shame you can't actually make a proper rocket and fly it into orbit with proper physics etc."
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L89[04:37:15] <Deddly> One Youtuber who often played MC who I watched from time to time suddenly had this "Kerbal Space Program" thing in his video list, and that was exactly what I was looking for
L90[04:37:42] <XXCoder> :)
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L92[04:37:53] <XXCoder> on both minecraft and ksp, my nephew discovered it
L93[04:38:08] <XXCoder> man I sure played on mc before car accient
L94[04:38:28] <XXCoder> ksp I can still play fine but eh maybe ill play again in future
L95[04:38:43] <Deddly> I watched a whole load of Kurt J Mac KSP videos and I finally bought the game when they said that buying it before April 2013 would get you all future expansions - bargain.
L96[04:38:57] <XXCoder> oh damn
L97[04:39:06] <XXCoder> umm not sure when I bought mine
L98[04:39:16] <XXCoder> umm lets see
L99[04:39:56] <XXCoder> order is 3/2014
L100[04:40:39] <Deddly> You were just about exactly a year too late.
L101[04:40:46] <XXCoder> too bad heh
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L103[04:41:15] <Deddly> But, honestly, the expansions are worth it. Well, at least the robotics one
L104[04:41:38] <XXCoder> its not free one?
L105[04:41:54] <XXCoder> how many extensons is there now, besides free nasa history one?
L106[04:41:58] <Deddly> It's free for anyone who bought the game before April 2013
L107[04:42:52] <Deddly> There are two extension packs. First one was Making History, the second is "Breaking Ground"
L108[04:44:03] <XXCoder> ksp enchanted eh
L109[04:44:29] <XXCoder> ah ps/xbox
L110[04:44:54] <Deddly> Breaking Ground is the one with all the robotics parts, hinges, propellers, motors etc.
L111[04:45:09] <Deddly> Oh right, that's true, there's an expansion pack for consoles too
L112[04:45:22] <XXCoder> 15 bucks not too bad
L113[04:45:24] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced is not an expansion though
L114[04:45:41] <XXCoder> yeah
L115[04:45:42] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced edition AKA KSP Working More Properly edition
L116[04:46:02] <Deddly> The first console release was, shall we say, not very well received
L117[04:46:08] <XXCoder> lol
L118[04:46:42] <Deddly> KSP Enhanced was a complete rewrite by a different team
L119[04:47:35] <XXCoder> interesting
L120[04:47:45] <XXCoder> i wonder why first team went badly
L121[04:48:05] <Deddly> The problem with the first release was a bug that completely and irrecoverably destroyed your save file, even online backups once it got over a certain size
L122[04:48:17] * XXCoder cringes
L123[04:48:25] <XXCoder> in least it didnt delete key system file
L124[04:48:41] <XXCoder> like that certain game
L125[04:48:53] <Deddly> Didn't show up in QA because QA people don't tend to play long sessions with the same save file
L126[04:50:10] <XXCoder> makes sense
L127[04:50:11] <Deddly> <XXCoder> i wonder why first team went badly <-- Flying Tiger did the port, and there is speculation that they might not have been the best choice, considering their portfolio at the time
L128[04:50:37] <sandbox> mobile games
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L130[04:51:22] <Deddly> Hey Fluburtur, O Silent One
L131[04:51:50] <XXCoder> well my current game is tileworld (plays chip challenge map packs)
L132[04:51:52] <XXCoder> cclp1
L133[04:51:59] <XXCoder> level 98. that ones a toughie
L134[04:53:41] <Deddly> I'd like to play MC again but... time
L135[04:55:27] <XXCoder> i wish I can play mc or minetest without conquences
L136[04:58:34] <Deddly> What consequences?
L137[04:58:45] <XXCoder> dizzyness and headaches
L138[04:59:14] <kubi> is there any good kerbal playen on youtube that I should watch?
L139[04:59:19] <Deddly> Oh, really?
L140[04:59:34] <XXCoder> yeah i always had issues with majority of any 3d games
L141[04:59:40] <Deddly> kubi, good is pretty subjective. What sort of content do you want?
L142[04:59:51] <XXCoder> then car accient moved minecraft into "makes me literally sick" area
L143[05:00:18] <sandbox> higher fps?
L144[05:00:39] <Deddly> Ouch, sorry to hear that
L145[05:01:07] <Deddly> Lowering field of view can help for some people.
L146[05:01:46] <XXCoder> it was increasing for me
L147[05:01:53] <XXCoder> 85 or so
L148[05:03:12] <Deddly> kubi, stratzenblitz75 makes good videos. My favourite: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ee59XkEufjA
L149[05:03:12] <kmath> YouTube - KSP - Duna and back using ONLY electric power and Xenon!
L150[05:04:37] <XXCoder> heh yep update also killed my ion carplane
L151[05:05:37] <XXCoder> uh that crazy machine
L152[05:09:01] <Deddly> I'm not really into massive stuff in KSP just for that sake of it, but that thing is glorious.
L153[05:09:17] <Deddly> More importantly, it serves a purpose
L154[05:09:20] <XXCoder> im pretty sure you saw 3 part to mun? lol
L155[05:09:28] <XXCoder> its impossible now but yeah
L156[05:09:33] <Deddly> I actually haven't seen that one
L157[05:09:56] <XXCoder> guy actually only used 3 parts to land on mun and return
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L159[05:10:12] <sandbox> .
L160[05:10:37] <XXCoder> welllll 4 if you include the pilot
L161[05:10:53] <XXCoder> sadly guy will have ptsd for life
L162[05:11:32] <Deddly> LOL
L163[05:11:42] <Deddly> Why is it not possible anymore?
L164[05:11:52] <XXCoder> physics changes
L165[05:12:00] <XXCoder> uhhh wtf
L166[05:12:09] <XXCoder> theres new 3 parts. to dun ika and minmus
L167[05:12:23] <XXCoder> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UC6boQ0L1CQ
L168[05:12:24] <kmath> YouTube - 3 Parts to Duna, Ike AND Minmus! | Stock KSP 1.7
L169[05:14:06] <Deddly> Oh I think I did see that - he had the capsule on the bottom, which gave him extra Dv for some reason
L170[05:14:09] <Gasher> oh it's the one with that "upside down" exploit
L171[05:14:39] <XXCoder> interesting
L172[05:14:50] <Gasher> Deddly, not just that - he says that turning pieces upside down made them have less drag
L173[05:15:06] <Deddly> Hmmmmmm really?
L174[05:15:24] <Gasher> that's what the author says in the video
L175[05:15:51] <Gasher> around 2:15
L176[05:15:56] <XXCoder> lol "ejecting part" by simply exploding it by heat
L177[05:16:04] <XXCoder> no more tricky clipping ground
L178[05:16:56] <Gasher> a variation of the classic exploding bottom stage by igniting the upper one lol
L179[05:19:00] <Deddly> All parts have less drag upside down?
L180[05:19:08] <Deddly> I can't watch a video right now
L181[05:19:49] <UmbralRaptor> depending on node locations
L182[05:20:27] <Gasher> oh, right. i was misremembering that a bit
L183[05:20:37] <Deddly> Drag is not related to notes
L184[05:20:39] <Deddly> nodes
L185[05:20:59] <Gasher> so he put the tank on the bottom then moved it upward so that the tank's occupied node was the foremost
L186[05:21:15] <Deddly> People keep talking about nodes and drag, but they are not related
L187[05:21:17] <Gasher> anyway, it's very easy to check
L188[05:21:22] <Deddly> KSP uses drag cubes
L189[05:22:21] <XXCoder> heh that videos worse. BOTH kerbals haveptsd
L190[05:22:53] <Gasher> i have KSP at hand but idk which version and mods
L191[05:23:50] <Gasher> Deddly, then you could watch the video later and comment
L192[05:24:04] <XXCoder> um why is world so weird at end
L193[05:24:18] <Deddly> Nobody listens to me anyway ;)
L194[05:25:00] <Gasher> if there is a difference in drag between the two setups then it'd be interesting to know what you think of that
L195[05:25:14] <Gasher> also lol it's 0.2.0 on my pc
L196[05:26:08] <Deddly> LOL
L197[05:26:24] <XXCoder> gasher why is kerbin so weird at end of that video?
L198[05:27:40] <XXCoder> black water and sky, land looking odd
L199[05:27:56] <Gasher> lol no idea
L200[05:28:32] <UmbralRaptor> graphics mods?
L201[05:29:29] <Deddly> An easy way to check: 1) fire a fast rocket straight up, measure max altitude. 2) turn the pod upside down, repeat
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L203[05:34:39] <Gasher> yeah
L204[05:35:01] <Deddly> Must be fast to exaggerate any change in drag
L205[05:35:20] <Gasher> i looked in that version screenshot folder and i don't remember what i wanted to do with this https://i.imgur.com/Hey23DN.png
L206[05:35:39] <XXCoder> sunrays, collect em all!
L207[05:36:36] <Gasher> oh i can see the ion engines protruding from there, rigth
L208[05:40:50] <Deddly> Have you really not played since 0.2?
L209[05:40:59] <Deddly> 0.20
L210[05:44:30] <Gasher> it was in a backup folder on my laptop
L211[05:49:29] <Deddly> ah ok
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L215[06:47:01] <Einarr> LOL, missing some { right after some @PART entries in my MM patch. Not one single warning or error was thrown by MM when loading the game. Probably caused the whole patch to fail...
L216[06:50:46] <Deddly> You forgot the holy { ???
L217[06:51:07] <Deddly> Oh ye with little faith
L218[06:56:25] <Einarr> Hmm, that did not seem to be enough to fix it. :(
L219[06:59:55] <Deddly> Add more {
L220[07:00:04] <Deddly> Throw in a few } for good measure
L221[07:00:19] <XXCoder> but not too many or it turns into lisp
L222[07:00:29] <Einarr> If only that were the solution...
L223[07:00:36] * Einarr gives up for the night...
L224[07:05:24] <Deddly> Truth be told, giving it up for the night and coming back tomorrow with fresh eyes can solve a lot of problems. Sleep tight, Einarr
L225[07:08:25] <Einarr> Not going to bed yet...
L226[07:08:33] <Einarr> Just giving up on that for now.
L227[07:08:46] <Deddly> Alrighty
L228[07:38:27] * darsie made orbit with 1530 VF: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot12.png
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L231[08:11:44] <Deddly> Ooh nice. I tried to get a single-stack rocket to orbit using that booster as the first stage but I couldn't make it
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L233[08:14:49] <Deddly> How do you steer that, Darsie?
L234[08:15:33] <Deddly> And what's 1530 VF?
L235[08:16:16] <Deddly> Mind you, I was doing it with a Kerbal on the top
L236[08:16:42] <Deddly> I found out you can squeeze a kerbal inside a stack of decouplers
L237[08:17:18] <Deddly> I did get to orbit with only size 0 parts, but I used Sparks instead of boosters
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L240[08:24:49] <darsie> Deddly: Fins, reaction wheels.
L241[08:25:14] <Deddly> Oh, reaction wheels
L242[08:25:21] <darsie> In the pod.
L243[08:25:39] <darsie> VF=virtual funds
L244[08:26:40] <Deddly> Of course, I wasn't thinking. I was making a comparison with the rocket I made that didn't have any reaction wheels because there was no pod. I had a Kerbal sitting inside a stack of decouplers as a mini-fairing and she was controlling the rocket. The only control authority I has was engine gimballing
L245[08:27:01] <Deddly> Ah, funds. That's pretty cheap :)
L246[08:27:28] <Deddly> What's the TWR of your first stage?
L247[08:27:35] <darsie> Dunno.
L248[08:28:01] <darsie> bbl
L249[08:37:30] <Deddly> OK, seeya
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L312[20:44:06] <Einarr> Anyone here good at diagnosing MM patch issues?
L313[20:45:51] <Einarr> Maybe I'll just start a new thread somewhere as I don't want to clutter up the MM thread.
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