OCLogs: 2018-01-19.log

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L14[01:33:18] <Althego> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-16/america-s-fastest-spy-plane-may-be-back-and-hypersonic

L15[01:34:37] <TelescopicRaptor> Isn't the X-37B the fastest spy plane?

L16[01:34:46] <Althego> hehehe

L17[01:34:48] <Althego> may be

L18[01:35:02] <Althego> but not really because it is a spaceship, not a plane

L19[01:35:33] <TelescopicRaptor> It has wings, and even uses them for landing.

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L21[01:35:46] <Althego> doesnt fly on its own power in the atmosphere

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L23[01:37:48] <Gasher[work]> ok, fastest spy glider then

L24[01:38:04] <UmbralRaptor> :D

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L27[01:57:45] * Einarr forgets how he wants to set Max Physics Delta-Time Per Frame...

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L29[02:00:34] * Einarr googles to see what the setting does...

L30[02:00:47] <Einarr> Ah, got it. All the way to the right.

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L72[06:13:50] <Flub2> can I waterproof cardboard by painting it with wood glue

L73[06:14:54] <legion> if it is a non-water type of woodglue, yes. if it is soluable in water, use thinned superglue instead.

L74[06:15:29] <Flub2> it's the white glue so it is waterproof

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L76[06:15:48] <Flub2> I could mix it with water to make it less heavy

L77[06:15:48] <Flub2> I need to test that before

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L80[06:20:57] <sandbox> labo

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L88[06:52:08] <Flub2> yo

L89[06:58:42] <Althego> static fire when

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L93[07:12:31] <Althego> "The static fire test has been rescheduled for no earlier than Friday, January 19th, with a window between 3:30PM and 9:30PM. This is dependent on a successful Atlas V launch on Thursday, so don't be surprised if it slips again. "

L94[07:12:37] <Althego> so what happened with that?

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L97[08:04:12] <madmerlyn> morning apex predators.

L98[08:04:22] <Flub2> ello

L99[08:04:59] <madmerlyn> so I lost my game of Stellaris last night and learned something about playing Tall with 1 planet :P

L100[08:05:13] <madmerlyn> specifically, don't make defensive pacts with other small empires

L101[08:05:40] <madmerlyn> large empire declared war that I got dragged into because of the DP, and even though I protected myself and attempted to protect my ally as best I could

L102[08:05:56] <madmerlyn> when the war was over, the war demands ended the game for me because the large empire got my only planet

L103[08:06:06] <madmerlyn> even though he never invaded my space

L104[08:06:14] <Althego> hehe

L105[08:06:32] <madmerlyn> defensive pacts with large civs only next time :P

L106[08:06:49] <madmerlyn> I think I might try my planetary expansion a bit earlier too, but I was trying to maintain my technological edge

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L109[08:35:02] <ve2dmn> good moonring

L110[08:39:19] <Althego> what, we have a moon ring?

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L113[08:41:46] <madmerlyn> like a disk around the moon, or a bunch of moons that somehow form an impossible ring?

L114[08:41:59] <FltAdmVonSpiz> madmerlyn: I ended up playing sort of semi tall because I was pinend between against a fanatic xenophobe FE.... so when the scourge invaded I had to go mad and invade a bunch of primitive worlds in a last ditch attempt to grow the industrial base

L115[08:42:22] <FltAdmVonSpiz> tall empires have real trouble sustaining ship production in crazy attritional battles

L116[08:42:35] <madmerlyn> lol you went war of the worlds on those poor saps

L117[08:42:45] <FltAdmVonSpiz> hey its not all bad

L118[08:42:49] <FltAdmVonSpiz> after all once the star shock wore off

L119[08:42:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> SERVICE GUARANTEES CITIZENSHIP

L120[08:42:54] <ve2dmn> Althego: nah, it's a common 'morning' typo

L121[08:43:22] <madmerlyn> they were sitting around debating whether or not climate change was real and then BAM here comes Spiz from the sky shouting "build my warships or die, I care not"

L122[08:44:37] <Althego> climate change is real, no debate there

L123[08:45:09] <FltAdmVonSpiz> well I saved them from the swarm of alien locusts slowly grinding their way across the galaxy towards them

L124[08:45:13] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so i'd say that was a fair trade

L125[08:45:16] <madmerlyn> I used my observation outpost to help an early space age civ become modern, they turned out to be xenophobes >.>

L126[08:45:20] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and I colonised them a Gaia world after the war

L127[08:45:41] <madmerlyn> I haven't found Gaia's yet, is there a technological path to terraform into it?

L128[08:45:47] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah in the lategame

L129[08:45:54] <FltAdmVonSpiz> you can get a Gaia terraform one, or they are very rare

L130[08:45:56] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: yes

L131[08:46:09] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: just DON'T colonize a holy world

L132[08:46:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> im annoyed I can't advance a primitive species to industrial and then infiltrate

L133[08:46:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> ve2dmn: that depends, in the late game, do colonise it :P

L134[08:46:25] <ve2dmn> or if you do, get ready for WAR

L135[08:46:26] <madmerlyn> yeah I was doing fine in my game until my ally couldn't protect himself

L136[08:46:34] <FltAdmVonSpiz> when you can bury them in a horde of ships Halo style and reverse engineer their weapons

L137[08:46:39] <madmerlyn> I think I might just try to play tall with like 3 core worlds

L138[08:46:49] <Mat2ch> "SpaceX's Falcon Heavy static fire test is not expected today. The launch team continues to run through testing ahead of a hold-down firing of all 27 main engines at pad 39A." Gnah :|

L139[08:46:58] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: you'll know when you get there

L140[08:47:06] <madmerlyn> with a good tech advantage I can muster a pretty formidable fleet with 3 worlds I think

L141[08:47:18] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah.... I remember in one game I had I tried to invade an FE, but this was when only spiritualists could get jump drives

L142[08:47:27] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so I still had Warp III, so my allies won the battle before the fleet even arrived

L143[08:47:27] <madmerlyn> Mat2ch it's almost like they don't want anything to go wrong :P

L144[08:47:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> since they jumped in early

L145[08:47:53] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: the next update is going Hypelanes-only. Enjoy your warps while you can

L146[08:48:00] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah I know its really annoying

L147[08:48:03] <Malachite> what game are we talking about

L148[08:48:08] <ve2dmn> Malachite: Stellaris

L149[08:48:13] <madmerlyn> wait, they're eliminating all the FTL types besides hyperlanes? why.

L150[08:48:13] <FltAdmVonSpiz> they have taken away the thing that made it different from EU or whatever because they havent worked out how to make positions matter

L151[08:48:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> which is just stupid

L152[08:48:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> because its the easy way out of the hole they made themselves

L153[08:48:47] <Mat2ch> madmerlyn: yeah. Thoroughly testing everything it seems

L154[08:48:56] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: I play Hyperlane-only anyway... it make the game a bit more strategic

L155[08:49:06] <Mat2ch> oh, I have a Stellaris key left. Anyone want to trade? ;P

L156[08:49:14] <ve2dmn> ...also, the lanes mapping makes my brain more happy :D

L157[08:49:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it would be more strategic if they didnt place tonnes of artificial restrictions on me

L158[08:49:23] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I should be ablet o build Holy Terra into the greatest fortress the universe has ever seen

L159[08:49:47] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and there should be surface-to-space weapons

L160[08:50:01] <madmerlyn> like.. armies? :P

L161[08:50:11] <FltAdmVonSpiz> armies can attack orbiting warships? :P

L162[08:50:19] <madmerlyn> oh you said surface to space

L163[08:50:27] <madmerlyn> I thought you put surface to surface

L164[08:50:27] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: you are asking for Master of Orion 2, basically

L165[08:50:39] <FltAdmVonSpiz> lorry drawn missile with huge warheads, or a gigantic fortress on floor of the North Sea

L166[08:50:44] <FltAdmVonSpiz> using the water as an ablative shield

L167[08:51:04] <FltAdmVonSpiz> a warship that tries to shoot it out with such a fortress is going to have a bad bad day

L168[08:51:14] <madmerlyn> I dunno, I mean it is scifi so there's a lot of creative license, but on the other hand defensive stations on orbit are more scientifically sound

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L170[08:51:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> massive missile batteries etc

L171[08:51:31] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and masers

L172[08:51:52] <halcyon_b> masers?

L173[08:51:57] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: watch the live stream they did, they talk about design decisions a lot

L174[08:51:58] <FltAdmVonSpiz> microwave lasers

L175[08:52:05] <madmerlyn> missiles would have to be rockets, which would be much less effective than having a missile battery in orbit

L176[08:52:08] <halcyon_b> fair enough

L177[08:52:12] <FltAdmVonSpiz> madmerlyn: eh, not so much

L178[08:52:18] <FltAdmVonSpiz> because they have no launch mass restrictions

L179[08:52:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and they are easier to hide

L180[08:52:25] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and shield

L181[08:52:39] <madmerlyn> and energy weapons from the surface are still going to have problems as they have to penetrate the atmosphere

L182[08:52:41] <ve2dmn> halcyon_b: btw, each time I see your nick, I am reminded that I need to finish Halcyon 6

L183[08:52:55] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah but on the upside I have power levels available that orbital stations cant' even dream of

L184[08:52:58] <madmerlyn> not really, easier to hide before they are shot maybe

L185[08:53:13] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I dont care if I lose 90% of my beam getting out of the atmosphere

L186[08:53:29] <madmerlyn> it'd be a lot easier to shoot down missiles coming from a planet than an orbital platform

L187[08:53:36] <FltAdmVonSpiz> why?

L188[08:53:43] <Gasher> energy weapons, but you use kinetic energy lol

L189[08:53:59] <madmerlyn> because they are escaping a planets gravity well, they're not going to accelerate nearly as quickly

L190[08:54:27] <FltAdmVonSpiz> Sprint called

L191[08:54:56] <Gasher> btw current missile warning satellites monitor for the signs of missile starts as far as i know

L192[08:55:42] <madmerlyn> I will say physics isn't really modeled at all in the game though so planetary defenses aren't completely nonsensical

L193[08:56:02] <madmerlyn> you have ships flying through star systems like they're scooting across a pond or something heh

L194[08:57:01] <ve2dmn> It's a game. There are a few creative decisions taken or else the game would be pretty much asymetrical and not fun

L195[08:57:10] <madmerlyn> ur not fun

L196[08:57:26] <Gasher> btw what game?

L197[08:57:29] <ve2dmn> Stellaris

L198[08:57:30] <madmerlyn> Stellaris

L199[08:58:08] <Gasher> ah ok

L200[08:58:17] <madmerlyn> real interstellar combat would probably be just pushing big asteroids into world ending collision trajectories heh

L201[08:58:52] <Gasher> relativistic kill vehicle i think it is called

L202[08:59:20] <Gasher> so it would be a bit too bold to rely on planets

L203[08:59:23] <madmerlyn> planets move very predictably so they're easy targets

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L205[09:01:43] <FltAdmVonSpiz> relativisitic kill vehicles are not really practical weapons

L206[09:01:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> for various reasons that become clear once you actually think about the practicalities of using them

L207[09:02:12] <madmerlyn> so a band called "Bad Wolves" recorded a cover of the Cranberries' "Zombie", and they were going to record a second version of it with Dolores from Cranberries, but she died the day before she was going to meet up with them

L208[09:02:30] <ve2dmn> :/

L209[09:02:38] <Althego> https://i.chzbgr.com/full/9116561152/hB4726312/

L210[09:03:08] <madmerlyn> she was only 46 too

L211[09:04:04] <ve2dmn> cause of death?

L212[09:04:16] <madmerlyn> hasn't been released yet

L213[09:04:20] <Gasher> not disclosed

L214[09:04:33] <Gasher> at least i havn't heard anything

L215[09:04:45] <ve2dmn> My half-sister died at 50 and I though it was young

L216[09:04:49] <FltAdmVonSpiz> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvZGaMt7UgQ This thing is possibly the most kerbal weapons system ever

L217[09:04:49] <kmath> YouTube - Sprint Missile

L218[09:05:16] <madmerlyn> post 1940s, 50 is a very young age to die

L219[09:06:00] <Gasher> ^

L220[09:06:07] <madmerlyn> my dad's cousin died at 52, pancreatitis. If he had gone to the hospital 24 hours earlier he likely would've made it

L221[09:06:09] <Gasher> FltAdmVonSpiz, ah, fizzle effect missile?

L222[09:06:26] ⇨ Joins: bathtub_shark (bathtub_shark!zarthus@liefland.net)

L223[09:08:39] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yeah neutron flux wreck the warheads

L224[09:09:09] <Gasher> it's apocalyptically neat effect i'd say

L225[09:10:25] <madmerlyn> you knock out orbital defenses and just push a big rock at the planet

L226[09:10:35] <madmerlyn> if they have no way of deflecting said rock that's game over

L227[09:11:22] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and then thousands of surface launched missiles turn the rock into vapour?

L228[09:12:04] <madmerlyn> most planets aren't going to have a missile safety screen for when their orbital deflector satellites are taken out

L229[09:12:17] <Gasher> i'd say you should calculate first to see if it is possible

L230[09:12:36] <madmerlyn> also, said rock would be going fast, and could be very large

L231[09:12:58] <FltAdmVonSpiz> warheads and missiles are cheap

L232[09:12:58] <madmerlyn> if you have a ship that's go enough power to go interstellar, pushing a rock the size of Texas shouldn't be too hard

L233[09:13:26] <FltAdmVonSpiz> in that scenario launchersa re going to so cheap I can lob gigaton warheads around like confetti

L234[09:13:33] <madmerlyn> conventional missiles aren't going to stop a large asteroid, and if they're using heavy payload missiles then they've already lost

L235[09:15:29] <madmerlyn> if they're nullifying the rock by vaporizing it, they've just detonated a lot of stuff in their atmosphere likely have a similar affect, and using explosive missiles that don't create massive problems would fracture a large asteroid into even harder to hit smaller asteroids that are still going very fast

L236[09:15:59] <madmerlyn> even if you blow a Texas asteroid down to the size of a city bus before it hits the ground, that will be devastating

L237[09:16:11] <iamfishhead> Fracturing increases surface area exposed to atmospheric heating

L238[09:16:41] <madmerlyn> sure, but it doesn't take a lot of mass to totally wreak havoc on a civilization at those velocities

L239[09:17:05] <FltAdmVonSpiz> just how fast are you proposing to throw this rock?

L240[09:17:06] <madmerlyn> Texas-sized asteroid, even if 99% of it is burnt up after missiles hit it, that 1% is going to be a huge planetary problem

L241[09:17:50] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: why is it always 'The size of Texas' ?

L242[09:18:05] <madmerlyn> assuming you're on a planet that has Earth-like gravity, you don't have to "throw" it fast at all, you just have to push it into a trajectory where physics will do it for you

L243[09:18:23] <FltAdmVonSpiz> too slow

L244[09:18:25] <madmerlyn> because Texas is a very large state that thinks they're even bigger than they are

L245[09:18:26] <FltAdmVonSpiz> itw ill take months

L246[09:18:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> if not years

L247[09:18:43] <madmerlyn> when talking about interstellar combat, months and years are nothing

L248[09:19:00] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so.... the planet sees the rock coming, crash builds the missile defence screen and vapourises it?

L249[09:19:10] <ve2dmn> There was a simulation of a comet hitting NYC... it take about 0.5sec before Mannathan is a crater

L250[09:19:12] <madmerlyn> realistically though there would be torpedoes that would be just as effective and much harder to shoot at

L251[09:19:44] <Althego> give me the static fire test

L252[09:19:45] <madmerlyn> vaporizing a meteor that size would still result in catastrophe

L253[09:19:49] <ve2dmn> so, low mass, high speed would probably be effective too

L254[09:19:59] <madmerlyn> you don't just vaporize it and all the energy you used to vaporize it disappears harmlessly

L255[09:20:08] <Althego> 0.5mv²

L256[09:20:12] <FltAdmVonSpiz> you can destroy it when its still a loooong way from the planet

L257[09:20:17] <Althego> wow, how did i write a square character

L258[09:20:38] <madmerlyn> FltAdmVonSpiz if someone was pushing a rocket to attack the planet obviously they have an orbital presence

L259[09:20:41] <madmerlyn> rock*

L260[09:21:09] <FltAdmVonSpiz> so now you have to maintain orbital supremacy in the target system for however many years it takes to complete this plan?

L261[09:21:15] <ve2dmn> also, if you hit the right place, the resulting dust could be devastating

L262[09:21:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> attritional losses will eat you alive

L263[09:21:27] <madmerlyn> orbital supremacy is not hard once you've won the initial battle

L264[09:22:03] <FltAdmVonSpiz> missile pops above the atmosphere, orients and spears your target on a jet of thermonuclear flame.

L265[09:22:06] <madmerlyn> you have a "battleship" in orbit, people on the ground aren't going to launch something that isn't a sitting duck on its way up

L266[09:22:30] <madmerlyn> must be an amazingly fast missile

L267[09:22:35] <FltAdmVonSpiz> hundred plus gs on the boost

L268[09:22:37] <FltAdmVonSpiz> if not more now

L269[09:22:56] <FltAdmVonSpiz> just have to get high enough for a Casaba Howitzer

L270[09:23:07] <madmerlyn> planets are sitting ducks, you're not going to convince me that they can just engineer a god missile to answer the problem

L271[09:23:23] <FltAdmVonSpiz> they are sitting ducks, but it is almost impossible to actually do seriosu damage to them

L272[09:23:44] <madmerlyn> you don't have to do serious damage to the planet itself, just to the environment on the surface, which is not hard to do at all

L273[09:23:45] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: you don't need to damage the planet. Just make it unlivable

L274[09:23:46] <FltAdmVonSpiz> unlike spaceships, hitting them is not the hard part

L275[09:24:18] <FltAdmVonSpiz> unlivable for the general population does not remove the military presence on the surface

L276[09:24:21] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

L277[09:24:44] <madmerlyn> unlivable for the general population does make it easy to siege and wait for a surrender

L278[09:24:57] <ve2dmn> And that's 1 volcano. Imagine if you can engineer acid rain

L279[09:25:12] <madmerlyn> only threat beyond an orbital bombardment would be insurgency after surrender

L280[09:25:54] <FltAdmVonSpiz> what if they don't surrender?

L281[09:26:01] <FltAdmVonSpiz> people are willing to tolerate pretty awful living conditions, see Leningrad

L282[09:26:08] <madmerlyn> also, if you're just interested in eliminating that planet as a threat, orbital bombardment would effectively handicap them to the point of not being a threat for a long time

L283[09:26:16] <ve2dmn> It might take 6 months, but when lack of food is a thing...

L284[09:26:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> also things like pruteen and U-Protein change the equation significantly

L285[09:26:45] <madmerlyn> lol "pretty awful living conditions" I don't think you realize how bad it would be

L286[09:26:59] <FltAdmVonSpiz> near starvation rations of microbial protein?

L287[09:27:24] <FltAdmVonSpiz> look up what the people of Leningrad endured

L288[09:27:35] <madmerlyn> they didnt' endure anything like what the dinosaurs did

L289[09:27:44] <FltAdmVonSpiz> dinosaurs didn't have tools

L290[09:27:46] <FltAdmVonSpiz> we do

L291[09:27:46] <madmerlyn> which is the situation orbital bombardment would put them in

L292[09:27:52] <madmerlyn> doesn't matter if you can't grow any planets

L293[09:27:54] <madmerlyn> plants*

L294[09:28:00] <FltAdmVonSpiz> who needs plants?

L295[09:28:02] <madmerlyn> food comes from agriculture

L296[09:28:07] <ve2dmn> FltAdmVonSpiz: I don't think we can survive a 3-year winter easily without massive death

L297[09:28:11] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it currently comes from agriculture

L298[09:28:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> who said anything about avoiding massive death?

L299[09:28:18] <Gasher> lol

L300[09:28:25] <madmerlyn> so you're going to have microbes that produce food without any input energy?

L301[09:28:31] <FltAdmVonSpiz> .... I have a whole damn planet

L302[09:28:32] <madmerlyn> the future is bright indeed

L303[09:28:52] <Gasher> you think of earth and it could be quite different type of colony

L304[09:28:54] <FltAdmVonSpiz> given the tech you are using I have power generating capacity that makes Quebec look like its powered with a single diesel generator

L305[09:29:10] <madmerlyn> you're assuming the power grid survives the bombardment

L306[09:29:23] <madmerlyn> maybe if you were already a subterranean species

L307[09:29:36] <Gasher> you can't make a planet unihabitable if it was like that before the bombardment! :D

L308[09:29:54] <ve2dmn> even then, you could easily cause earthquake like even with missiles similar to bunker-busters

L309[09:29:55] <FltAdmVonSpiz> just saying a fleet attempting to invest and bombard a planet is going to take enormous losses

L310[09:29:58] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and its going to take months

L311[09:30:17] <madmerlyn> enormous losses? if you have orbital supremacy where does the threat come from?

L312[09:30:35] <madmerlyn> more god missiles that travel at light speed from the surface?

L313[09:30:56] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: just 'rod from god' :D

L314[09:31:01] <FltAdmVonSpiz> kind of

L315[09:31:05] <FltAdmVonSpiz> missile launches at 100g from surface installation

L316[09:31:06] <Gasher> atmosphere won't hinder you when there is none lol

L317[09:31:14] <FltAdmVonSpiz> eight or nine seconds later it reaches the top fo the atmosphere

L318[09:31:14] <madmerlyn> easily shot down with energy weapons

L319[09:31:18] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it lines on the target and detonates

L320[09:31:31] <FltAdmVonSpiz> thet target is hit at the speed of light by a mix of plasma and gamma rays

L321[09:31:32] <madmerlyn> lol you think the fleet is going to park a few km above the atmosphere?

L322[09:31:42] <FltAdmVonSpiz> you've never hear dof Casaba Howitzer have you?

L323[09:31:47] <Gasher> any moons present?

L324[09:32:18] <madmerlyn> look, fleet could park in very high orbit, detect missile launch, and hit it with an energy weapon long before it ever approaches them

L325[09:32:29] <FltAdmVonSpiz> in eight seconds it is an energy weapon madmerlyn

L326[09:32:33] <FltAdmVonSpiz> it only has to reach about 25km above the surface

L327[09:33:03] <madmerlyn> and how does it aim at the ships in high orbit at that point?

L328[09:33:22] <FltAdmVonSpiz> by pointing?

L329[09:34:00] <FltAdmVonSpiz> its effectively a weaponised Orion pusher plate, ita ppears they discovered they could vary the angle of the collimation of the charge by varying the design and materials

L330[09:34:09] <FltAdmVonSpiz> to the point they can apparently make the beam collapse into a narrow jet

L331[09:34:27] <FltAdmVonSpiz> alot of this stuff is still pretty heavily secret for obvious reasons

L332[09:34:42] <FltAdmVonSpiz> *Orion pusher plate charge

L333[09:35:03] <ve2dmn> I guess, that's why the asteroid pusher is the way to go

L334[09:36:35] <madmerlyn> I don't see how an Orion = energy weapon, you know Orion pusher plates work by absorbing the blast material from a shaped charge right?

L335[09:36:44] <FltAdmVonSpiz> yes

L336[09:36:54] <FltAdmVonSpiz> but the same project produced a conceptually smiilar device

L337[09:36:57] <madmerlyn> so how does blast material turn into pure energy?

L338[09:37:07] <FltAdmVonSpiz> Orion deliberately defocused the pulse to cover the entire plate

L339[09:37:20] <madmerlyn> it's still matter moving through space

L340[09:37:30] <madmerlyn> which means not light speed

L341[09:38:17] <FltAdmVonSpiz> projected plasma velocities are above 3000km/s

L342[09:38:34] <madmerlyn> also any launch vehicle that can accelerate that fast in 8s is going to absolutely destroy whatever it is launched out of

L343[09:38:55] <FltAdmVonSpiz> they've built launch vehicles with 100g launches

L344[09:38:59] <madmerlyn> 3000km/s still takes a long time to hit something 1.5M km away

L345[09:39:09] <madmerlyn> certainly long enough for said object to move slightly

L346[09:39:10] <FltAdmVonSpiz> .... you want to shoot at missiles from 1.5 million km away?

L347[09:39:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> if you are that far away the missile can travel closer to you

L348[09:39:40] <madmerlyn> you shoot missiles that are easy to shoot, you dodge missiles that are easy to dodge

L349[09:40:02] <madmerlyn> if the missile takes even longer to "ramp up" then you shoot it

L350[09:40:16] <FltAdmVonSpiz> unless you are using x-ray lasers the size of skyscrapers

L351[09:40:21] <FltAdmVonSpiz> those ranges are simply infeasible for a spaceship

L352[09:40:43] <madmerlyn> so we can have super god missiles but not spaceships that can shoot things far away, k

L353[09:40:50] <madmerlyn> I'm done with this conversation, it's boring

L354[09:40:53] <FltAdmVonSpiz> you mean we have missiels with performance from the 1970s

L355[09:41:13] <FltAdmVonSpiz> anyway, whatever

L356[09:41:48] <madmerlyn> yes, you're absolutely right, planets will be able to destroy everythign around them with 1970s tech easily, so right.

L357[09:42:17] <madmerlyn> the super weapon from Force Awakening makes so much more sense now

L358[09:45:29] ⇦ Quits: bathtub_shark (bathtub_shark!zarthus@liefland.net) (Ping timeout: 207 seconds)

L359[09:45:42] <Gasher> lol

L360[09:47:12] <RandomJeb> well while you have your space battle in earth orbit my invasion fleet is just adjusting the orbit of a few asteroids

L361[09:47:55] <madmerlyn> which is what I said originally Jeb

L362[09:48:25] <madmerlyn> apparently a swarm of country sized rocks is easy to deal with though

L363[09:48:35] <RandomJeb> of course

L364[09:48:41] <RandomJeb> just blast them into smaller bits of rock

L365[09:48:47] <RandomJeb> :]

L366[09:49:35] <RandomJeb> I was going to sterilize the surface anyway so just keep shooting missiles there's going to be a lot of rocks

L367[09:49:42] <madmerlyn> and apparently the howitzer god missile he's talking about using to shoot down invasion ships.. couldn't be used to similarly shoot planets from ships because reasons

L368[09:54:31] <madmerlyn> hyperlane only warp in 2.0, maybe I should just start setting my game options to that

L369[09:54:35] <madmerlyn> Hyperlanes only

L370[09:55:24] <madmerlyn> certainly would make choke points easier, but I kinda liked doing wormhole gates and jumping clear across my space super fast

L371[09:55:36] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: that's the idea, yes

L372[09:55:53] ⇦ Quits: Mod9000 (Mod9000!deddly@bitcoinshell.mooo.com) (Ping timeout: 207 seconds)

L373[09:56:04] <madmerlyn> I think the "wormhole gate access" trade is bugged in 1.9 though

L374[09:56:09] <ve2dmn> removing the 'I own the star at spot X, therefore I own that star I cannot get to'

L375[09:56:19] <madmerlyn> like I'd trade wormhole access and wouldn't be able to jump into allies space because it was "out of range"

L376[09:57:05] <ve2dmn> no clue. Never used wormholes extensively

L377[09:57:12] <madmerlyn> I ended up building wormhole gates in my ally's systems so I could jump in

L378[09:57:35] <madmerlyn> even though my range should've been extended by his gates automatically

L379[09:58:10] <madmerlyn> well I hope they do something to make FTL diversity viable in the future

L380[09:58:36] <ve2dmn> that's not what you are trading, btw...

L381[09:59:06] <madmerlyn> well what is wormhole gate access supposed to be then?

L382[09:59:10] <ve2dmn> I'm pretty sure it's just the right to open wormholes inside his territory

L383[09:59:20] <madmerlyn> ah, well I guess that kinda makes sense

L384[09:59:33] <madmerlyn> the right to build gates in his space

L385[09:59:39] <madmerlyn> because that's ultimately what I did

L386[09:59:47] <ve2dmn> because it's the only right you can trade with the other FTL

L387[10:00:36] <madmerlyn> so if you're doing a federation or defensive alliance you probably want to give that to your neighbors who have warpgates

L388[10:00:48] <madmerlyn> so they can actually reach your systems in a war

L389[10:01:43] <ve2dmn> With a federation, you automatically have access.

L390[10:01:48] <ve2dmn> same with allies in a war

L391[10:02:12] <madmerlyn> giving it prior to war means they don't have to send construction ships ahead of their fleet though

L392[10:02:25] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: only an issue with wormholes

L393[10:04:04] <ve2dmn> The biggest reason they are going hyperlane-only is territorial control

L394[10:04:15] <ve2dmn> I know the FE might keep the Jump drive though

L395[10:05:37] <madmerlyn> if everything was wormhole only it'd have a similar affect though, because you could only extend as far as your gates allow

L396[10:05:58] <madmerlyn> course AI would probably just put gates in every system

L397[10:06:09] <ve2dmn> yeah, but you can't create choke point with wormholes

L398[10:06:18] <madmerlyn> I mean it's space

L399[10:06:56] <ve2dmn> I'm not the main designer. Ask them not me :D

L400[10:07:31] <madmerlyn> chokepoints are convenient for strategy games, but they're also strange in space heh

L401[10:07:51] <madmerlyn> the new Master of Orion they made a couple years ago was highly criticized for deciding to do star lanes

L402[10:08:07] <madmerlyn> original MoO had no lanes, your range depended on your fuel tech

L403[10:08:36] <madmerlyn> MoO 2 didn't have lanes I don't think either, came in with MoO 3 which the MoO community generally agrees is garbage heh

L404[10:08:59] <Gasher> moo2 also had those easier return tech

L405[10:09:56] <madmerlyn> and really, I think having the 3 types of FTL would be cool if you could also make tech/installations to counter them

L406[10:10:27] <madmerlyn> like have a jump drive inhibitor that makes incoming ships have to travel at sublight speed once they get within xx radius, slowing them down

L407[10:10:39] <madmerlyn> with a snare platform could be quite effective for laying traps

L408[10:11:10] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: watch the live streams, the explain a bit of the decision making that went through

L409[10:11:13] ⇨ Joins: Mod9000 (Mod9000!deddly@bitcoinshell.mooo.com)

L410[10:11:13] <madmerlyn> could have countermeasures for both wormholes and jump drives

L411[10:11:17] <ve2dmn> (also explained in the dev notes)

L412[10:11:41] <ve2dmn> tl;dr : We want to do stuff, and we have limited ressources

L413[10:12:13] <madmerlyn> also, did you know Paradox has a new one coming out this year?

L414[10:12:25] <ve2dmn> Surviving Mars?

L415[10:12:29] <madmerlyn> city builder genre.. I saw a trailer for it a little bit ago, lemme find the .. yes that one

L416[10:12:42] <madmerlyn> I wishlisted it on steam :D

L417[10:13:08] ⇨ Joins: Hypergolic_Skunk (Hypergolic_Skunk!uid167070@id-167070.tooting.irccloud.com)

L418[10:13:22] <ve2dmn> I'm hoping the chnage to fleet contruction in Stellaris will make thing easier

L419[10:13:37] <madmerlyn> I really should read some of that stuff

L420[10:13:40] <madmerlyn> gimme the TL;DR

L421[10:14:01] <madmerlyn> another sorta city-builder I wishlisted is Frostpunk

L422[10:14:25] <ve2dmn> instead of building fleets on each planets, your mega-space-platform will double as space contrcution

L423[10:14:48] <madmerlyn> so can you build those anywhere in territory then?

L424[10:15:09] <ve2dmn> but they cost a lot and represent an 'anchor'

L425[10:15:31] <ve2dmn> like, "I really like this system, I shall building my giant factory HERE"

L426[10:15:39] <madmerlyn> I think I'll bump Factorio from wishlist to library next month

L427[10:15:49] <ve2dmn> or make it a giant defense platform with lots of guns. it's up to you

L428[10:16:06] <madmerlyn> can you have more than one in system like you can defense platforms?

L429[10:16:27] <madmerlyn> because with my tall strategy I was sitting on surplus minerals near constantly

L430[10:16:31] <ve2dmn> basically, less space stations, but bigger Military-style space stations

L431[10:16:50] <madmerlyn> and being able to have like.. 4 drydocks in orbit would be amazing

L432[10:17:30] <madmerlyn> I effectively used my mineral surplus to offset energy deficits and play diplomacy

L433[10:17:39] <madmerlyn> I'd gift empires 1000 minerals to get them to like me

L434[10:17:47] <madmerlyn> or trade them 5k minerals for 3k energy

L435[10:17:58] <madmerlyn> so even though I was constantly at like -20 energy a month I never ran out

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L437[10:19:53] <madmerlyn> I think I could've snowballed if I didn't get sucked into that stupid defensive war

L438[10:20:03] <madmerlyn> I was literally in the process of colonizing my second planet heh

L439[10:20:54] <ve2dmn> I usually play wide, so I can't help you mcch

L440[10:21:22] <madmerlyn> well with my 1 planet I was still able to muster fleets around 5k at year 60ish

L441[10:21:27] <ve2dmn> although, I usually wait to expand as late as possible

L442[10:21:34] <madmerlyn> the wide empires were fielding fleets about twice that

L443[10:21:50] <madmerlyn> but if I dropped a defense platform they couldn't break me

L444[10:22:42] <madmerlyn> Democracy gets so much influence too, makes it a lot easier to play tall

L445[10:22:49] <madmerlyn> I had a pretty large territory

L446[10:22:54] <madmerlyn> outposts everywhere

L447[10:22:55] ⇨ Joins: bathtub_shark (bathtub_shark!zarthus@liefland.net)

L448[10:23:25] <madmerlyn> every election cycle your leader has a mandate, you fulfill mandate and get a large chunk of influence from it

L449[10:26:16] <ve2dmn> my last few plays have been hive-mind, but I usually go for a democracy if I don't

L450[10:26:35] <madmerlyn> I wonder how rough playing tall would be if I went machine empire

L451[10:26:45] <madmerlyn> maybe I'll do that tonight

L452[10:26:47] <ve2dmn> depend on the type of machines

L453[10:27:20] <ve2dmn> Exterminators and assimilators have big diplomacy malus

L454[10:28:02] <ve2dmn> but the rogue servitors and the generic robots aren't 'bad' at diplomacy

L455[10:29:21] <madmerlyn> http://store.steampowered.com/app/445220/Avorion/

L456[10:29:50] <ve2dmn> You could also try the 'devouring swarm'

L457[10:30:12] <madmerlyn> only thing that makes me hesitate on Avorion is I don't like buying Early Access titles

L458[10:30:21] <madmerlyn> too many of them never make it out of EA status

L459[10:30:27] <ve2dmn> both the 'Devouring Swarm' and the robot 'Exterminator' lack diplomacy

L460[10:30:44] <madmerlyn> dunno why Steam decided to make pre-alpha a product to sell to people

L461[10:31:05] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: because $

L462[10:31:21] <madmerlyn> it's created a culture of low effort games and bad developer practices though

L463[10:31:30] <ve2dmn> blame Minecraft

L464[10:31:41] <madmerlyn> even the latest MoO which was backed by a AAA studio, they worked on it, released it and a couple DLCs, and then abandoned it

L465[10:31:47] <ve2dmn> not for starting the trend, but for making it much bigger

L466[10:32:04] <madmerlyn> even though the game while beautiful has some serious technical issues that should've been fixed

L467[10:32:50] <madmerlyn> yeah but at least Notch/Mojang supported it for a good long time and didn't just get their cash and leave it on the shelf

L468[10:33:35] <madmerlyn> supporting pre 1.0 minecraft was supporting an actual development, not making Joe Blow a bunch of money so he could go work on his next half-cocked project

L469[10:34:38] <madmerlyn> I guess what I really want is steam to have developer ratings etc. so devs that are habitually abusing the EA system to make cash grabs can get exposed more clearly

L470[10:34:50] <ve2dmn> Good EA games are fun even if incomplete... but thoses are few

L471[10:35:06] <madmerlyn> would probably do wonders to the average quality of titles on steam if they had dev ratings

L472[10:35:21] <ve2dmn> KSP, Factorio, Rimworld, Minecraft.... those are goo examples

L473[10:35:55] <madmerlyn> I don't mind 8bit style retro games etc. but there are soooooo many really bad titles that you can tell were made by someone who dropped out halfway in CS and spent 5 hours whipping a garbage game together

L474[10:36:20] <Kalpa> Now I want whipped cream

L475[10:37:14] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: google 'Asset flip'

L476[10:38:15] <ve2dmn> plenty of people trying to abuse the system

L477[10:40:20] <madmerlyn> I do want to make a $4.99 game, but my problem is, I don't have an advanced enough skillset in *any* of the stuff except maybe actual backend programming

L478[10:40:34] <madmerlyn> I don't want to just push out a junker with RPG maker or something heh

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L480[10:41:21] <ve2dmn> like https://www.humblebundle.com/store/search?sort=bestselling&developer=Aldorlea%20Games ?

L481[10:41:41] <madmerlyn> ugh.

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L484[10:46:19] <ve2dmn> it's a 1 man shop, and I guess he makes enough to continue...

L485[10:47:24] <madmerlyn> I mean if you make 50 sales a month on a $.99 game and you have 20 of those that's almost $1k/mo for something you're most likely doing part time on the weekends

L486[10:47:41] <madmerlyn> and if one of them somehow gets traction and sells a lot more

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L488[10:57:48] <ve2dmn> well... he's been doing that since 2008...

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L490[10:58:29] <ve2dmn> btw, I've played one of the games. The story isn't 'so' bad, but it felt like it had cut corners in a few places...

L491[10:59:38] <madmerlyn> I mean if there's a market for it it's not bad passive income

L492[10:59:56] <madmerlyn> I could do something like that as I like writing, but RPG Maker is just too low quality/effort for me

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L494[11:04:15] <mib_4jz1oy> Hey everyone, does anyone know how to refuel a pebble bed reactor?

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L499[11:13:13] <APlayer> mib_4jz1oy: Are you talking about something KSP related?

L500[11:13:26] <madmerlyn> he quit

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L502[11:13:45] <APlayer> Oh, he did

L503[11:13:46] <madmerlyn> and pebble bed reactor is a mod

L504[11:14:01] <APlayer> That was a weird quitting maneuver, though :D

L505[11:14:17] <APlayer> Confused me into thinking he was still there

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L507[11:15:18] <APlayer> I blame internet delay chat

L508[11:15:24] <madmerlyn> I think maybe I'll invest some mental energy into learning Godot

L509[11:15:26] <Althego> hehe there are still new zuma videos

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L511[11:15:47] <APlayer> So is Zuma still alive, whatever it is?

L512[11:15:55] <Althego> nobody knows

L513[11:16:05] <Althego> and this generates the speculation

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L515[11:16:27] <APlayer> What a big pile of uncertainty

L516[11:17:43] <madmerlyn> maybe they want everyone to think there was a problem because it went off to do something with the X-37b that's been in orbit for 190 days

L517[11:18:07] <Althego> or rather the x37 went to it

L518[11:18:56] <madmerlyn> it's inside the x37b as we speak, doing science that will ultimately result in the government controlling the universe

L519[11:19:13] <Althego> hah no, the universe is too big

L520[11:19:22] <madmerlyn> that's what they want you to believe

L521[11:19:24] <Althego> with lightspeed we cant get control of it

L522[11:19:50] <madmerlyn> Zuma, zooms through it without worrying about relativity, that's why it's the Zooma

L523[11:21:09] <madmerlyn> right now an urgent message inviting the youth of every developed species in the universe to eat laundry detergent pods is being broadcast without latency delay

L524[11:21:22] <Althego> lol

L525[11:22:21] <madmerlyn> I still think my theory that the great filter is actually laundry detergent pods has merit

L526[11:22:41] <madmerlyn> every advanced civilization falls apart once they invent single use laundry detergent pods

L527[11:22:57] <Althego> either that, or social media

L528[11:24:14] <madmerlyn> Facebook, the fall of civilization

L529[11:24:35] <madmerlyn> I mean I saw a video on imgur today of some woman skydiving with a phone in her hand

L530[11:24:47] <Althego> shouldnt be too dangerous

L531[11:24:50] <madmerlyn> facebook can't wait!

L532[11:25:15] <madmerlyn> yeah so I'm freefalling for like the next 7 minutes, better see what everyone I hated in HS is up to this morning.

L533[11:25:45] <Althego> and post 5 selfies

L534[11:26:01] <ve2dmn> *sigh*

L535[11:26:29] <ve2dmn> Social networks makes me angry

L536[11:26:51] <madmerlyn> he says, as he participates in IRC which is quite possibly the oldest social network there is ;)

L537[11:27:23] <madmerlyn> I guess there was BBS before

L538[11:27:48] <madmerlyn> <and this is the point where someone comes in and says "what do you mean before? I still use BBS">

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L540[11:32:43] <Althego> hehe

L541[11:32:49] <Althego> i never used bbs

L542[11:33:39] <Althego> the then only phone copany was charging too much

L543[11:34:14] <madmerlyn> my grandparents had internet but I only stayed with them during summer, I didn't have my own internet connection at home until 1999 in HS when I moved in with my dad

L544[11:34:27] <madmerlyn> he got me my own phone line so I could get on the internet

L545[11:35:32] <madmerlyn> I do remember somewhere around 1996 I ran my grandparents' AOL bill up to like $120 because I went way over their alloted minutes, back when internet was sold by the minute lol

L546[11:35:42] <madmerlyn> playing a MUD, Gemstone III

L547[11:44:06] <madmerlyn> you know what kind of game I want to make for my first one? A typing tutor similar to Mario Teaches Typing

L548[11:44:12] <madmerlyn> Mavis Beacon is so boring

L549[11:44:47] <madmerlyn> not sure that the market is a big one, but I'm sure there are still people out there who don't know proper touch typing

L550[11:47:03] <Kalpa> I certainly don't

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L552[11:47:27] <Kalpa> Touchscreens are godawful to type with, I don't know why anyone would put themselves through it voluntarily!

L553[11:48:21] <Althego> hehe

L554[11:48:43] <Althego> hey, i remember when i had to type with a small stick on a resistive touchscreen

L555[11:48:49] <Althego> that was bad

L556[11:48:58] <Althego> but i had kind of ok speed

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L561[12:05:49] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: BBS! MUDS! Such memories. Much good times.

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L563[12:06:42] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: the best typing teaching is, of course, The Typing of The Dead!

L564[12:07:24] <ve2dmn> I saw someone try to speedrun it. It was interesting.

L565[12:08:00] <ve2dmn> I think the Shakespear DLC is the hardest

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L568[12:23:42] <halcyon_b> Althego: If I remember correctly, they had a weird kind of gestural text input method later on that was a lot faster.

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L572[12:31:38] <ve2dmn> wb Mod9000

L573[12:45:14] <madmerlyn> I liked Mario Teaches Typing

L574[12:45:30] <madmerlyn> obviously I can't make a Mario TT game though because I don't have a license to the trademark

L575[12:45:39] <madmerlyn> I'm thinking something along the lines of Merlyn's Magic Typing

L576[12:46:30] <madmerlyn> then maybe I'll try to jump on the Tycoon band wagon if that one pans out :P

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L579[12:49:32] <madmerlyn> course a game like factorio is pretty interesting too, I've always enjoyed a good building sandbox

L580[12:49:39] <madmerlyn> all about the scaling

L581[12:52:03] <ve2dmn> I was referencing this btw: http://store.steampowered.com/app/246580/The_Typing_of_The_Dead_Overkill/

L582[12:52:11] <madmerlyn> yeah i saw that

L583[12:52:16] <ve2dmn> (flith warning)

L584[12:52:23] <ve2dmn> filth*

L585[12:52:27] <madmerlyn> wonder how much bandwidth a factorio MP server uses

L586[12:52:41] <madmerlyn> if I end up buying it I might try to rope a friend or 2 into it

L587[12:52:44] <ve2dmn> ...there a MP mode????

L588[12:52:51] <madmerlyn> https://wiki.factorio.com/Multiplayer

L589[12:53:01] <ve2dmn> !!!!!

L590[12:53:21] <madmerlyn> haha maybe when I buy it we can collaborate

L591[12:53:54] <ve2dmn> "As of version 0.13, players no longer necessarily have to port-forward to play with others. Players may join each other through Steam, or by just the port-forwarded host. "

L592[12:54:13] <madmerlyn> I'd probably run a headless server

L593[12:54:17] <ve2dmn> but I guess a dedicated server would be better

L594[12:54:40] <madmerlyn> lol stick a headless server on a machine at work

L595[12:55:05] <madmerlyn> if its low enough bandwidth that could actually work

L596[12:55:51] <madmerlyn> looks like it's below 100kbps average

L597[12:56:36] <ve2dmn> I could host that on my computer at home

L598[12:56:50] <madmerlyn> server would be more persistent is why I think you'd want to go that route

L599[12:57:00] <madmerlyn> you do P2P hosting people can only play when the host is available

L600[12:57:18] <ve2dmn> I had MineOS on FreeNAS at home

L601[12:57:29] <madmerlyn> dedicated server you could have people hop off and on at different hours and it'll just update each person's map on load

L602[12:57:54] <ve2dmn> I also ran a Freeciv server which had 1 turn per day (unless everyone was online)

L603[13:02:34] <ve2dmn> Right... and a Freelancer server at one point too

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L606[13:04:08] <ve2dmn> I miss thoses days, when my friends had no kids and we had free time

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L608[13:04:30] <madmerlyn> if I get factorio and you run a server I'll be your fren

L609[13:04:58] <ve2dmn> Now they have 1.57079632679 kids and live in the suburbs

L610[13:05:16] * umaxtu shudders

L611[13:05:56] <madmerlyn> I will win a tall game of Stellaris before I buy factorio though

L612[13:05:58] <madmerlyn> it's gonna happen

L613[13:06:13] <madmerlyn> and maybe go back to my OPM KSP career for a bit

L614[13:06:13] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: I'll see you next week then

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L616[13:06:59] <ve2dmn> Stellaris gets pretty slow by mid-to-end game...

L617[13:07:42] <umaxtu> the new expansion looks like fun though

L618[13:08:33] <ve2dmn> umaxtu: which one?

L619[13:09:30] <umaxtu> the upcoming one. Apocalypse and the accompanying 2.0 patch. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/stellaris-dev-diary-100-titans-and-planet-destroyers.1064560/

L620[13:09:39] <ve2dmn> ha, yes :)

L621[13:09:44] <Draconiator> Question - Why do some small speakers act like a microphone sometimes? ((no such luck with this one, darn))

L622[13:09:59] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: same core components

L623[13:10:51] <madmerlyn> a speaker is basically a microphone with the poles reversed

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L625[13:11:02] <madmerlyn> kinda like electric generator vs. motor

L626[13:12:54] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: reverse the polarity!

L627[13:13:21] <madmerlyn> literally in the case of microphone vs. speaker

L628[13:13:49] <madmerlyn> in the case of motor vs. generator, polarity stays the same, direction of rotation is what is changed

L629[13:13:52] <ve2dmn> Which is why Hollywood use that reference... it's the only one they understand

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L631[13:21:11] *** Mead is now known as Guest71198

L632[13:23:50] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: Science!

L633[13:24:48] <Draconiator> https://i.gyazo.com/13a650699513f7a2ce49a659a8898731.png

L634[13:25:02] <ve2dmn> Draconiator: more Science!

L635[13:27:02] <Draconiator> lol

L636[13:27:57] <Draconiator> Literally that thing is the best idea I've come up with in KSP in months.

L637[13:28:38] <ve2dmn> madmerlyn: if you want a dedicated server, OVH just opened their US east coast site, so they might do a deal of some sort

L638[13:28:53] <madmerlyn> who dat

L639[13:29:08] <ve2dmn> the largest European hosting provider

L640[13:29:11] <madmerlyn> oh cloud computing.. that costs more money

L641[13:29:40] <ve2dmn> yes. yes it does

L642[13:30:07] <madmerlyn> I'd rather install one on a linux box in my office and let me and a handful of friends play on it for free :P

L643[13:31:49] <ve2dmn> I don't think the university would let me do that

L644[13:32:45] <madmerlyn> don't worry, I don't want to install server on your work's computer ;)

L645[13:33:29] <madmerlyn> reminds me, back in my third party IT days, we retired a server from one of our medical customers, and it turns out the sysadmin they had before they switched to using 3P had installed a CS server on it

L646[13:33:39] <madmerlyn> it'd been running a CS server for like 3 years after the guy left lol

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L648[13:35:32] <ve2dmn> I found a Minecraft server on one of the university research machine, with a public IP

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L651[13:35:59] <madmerlyn> study on the prevalence of in-game trolling?

L652[13:36:09] <ve2dmn> nah

L653[13:36:50] <ve2dmn> unwilling participation in malware distribution through lack of proper security

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L655[13:37:36] <ve2dmn> They even brute-force the QNAP, because that was also simply directly connected to the Internet

L656[13:37:56] <madmerlyn> oh someone from the internet installed MC on it? lol

L657[13:38:15] <ve2dmn> No clue.

L658[13:38:20] <madmerlyn> if I were going to do that I'd put a BTC miner on it

L659[13:38:43] <ve2dmn> When I was called-in as an outside consultant, it was a Command&Control server

L660[13:39:23] <ve2dmn> The RCMP had left with the original drive and the only thing I had was a clone of the OS

L661[13:45:52] <madmerlyn> https://i.imgur.com/mGhW1S6.mp4

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L667[14:38:51] <ve2dmn> I wish that pod meme would die already

L668[14:39:18] <madmerlyn> poison control center is slowing it down

L669[14:39:55] <ve2dmn> At least the cinammon challenge was a tiny bit less dumb

L670[14:40:07] <ve2dmn> What's the next challenge? Eating a car?

L671[14:40:25] <madmerlyn> hey when I was a teenager the challenge was running out in traffic and trying to jump over cars

L672[14:40:43] <madmerlyn> it's just there wasn't instagram, youtube, or facebook to make those morons famous

L673[14:40:45] <ve2dmn> "I doubt you can eat an entire truck and wash it down with engine fluid like I just did"

L674[14:41:03] <Arcanitor> when i was a teenager we had fidget spinners and bee movie memes

L675[14:41:27] <ve2dmn> Arcanitor: get off my lawn!

L676[14:42:04] <Arcanitor> what lawn

L677[14:42:40] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You_kids_get_off_my_lawn!

L678[14:43:00] <Arcanitor> i thought you lived in an apartment ve2dmn

L679[14:43:11] <ve2dmn> I... do... sort of.

L680[14:43:22] <ve2dmn> Look, it's made of concrete, but I still own it

L681[14:43:22] <madmerlyn> wonder if Godot would handle KSP's physics better than Unity

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L684[14:44:47] <madmerlyn> ...apparently someone is doing exactly what I just asked..

L685[14:44:55] <madmerlyn> Open Space Program

L686[14:45:32] <ve2dmn> well... floating point errors will be floating point errors.

L687[14:45:56] <madmerlyn> I was thinking more in regards to multithreading the physics calculations so high part count vessels don't max out a single core

L688[14:46:04] <ve2dmn> The kraken cannot be eliminated. He can only be tamed. For a time.

L689[14:46:26] <madmerlyn> way it works in unity is multiple vessels can have their own threads, but each vessel is a single thread

L690[14:46:27] <ve2dmn> That could make a difference

L691[14:48:52] <ve2dmn> Which reminds me. I need to buy a new CPU

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L696[14:52:38] <ve2dmn> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_game_engines

L697[14:52:52] <ve2dmn> I didn't know there were so many

L698[14:54:47] <madmerlyn> I'm going to play around with Godot

L699[14:56:02] <Supernovy> I think the guys who made Godot weren't in it to make a game engine, just a pun.

L700[14:57:18] <madmerlyn> that's what you get for thinking

L701[14:57:34] <Supernovy> Because there are a lot of devs who know C# and use unity, but want another engine. So after a while the Godot devs say "We're going to implement C# ... soon".

L702[14:57:54] <Supernovy> Which leaves all the other devs Waiting for Godot.

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L704[14:59:26] <ve2dmn> you are right... that list does not have a lot of C# engines.

L705[15:00:08] <ve2dmn> I guess that explains the popularity of Unity aside from the long list of platform support.

L706[15:00:32] <Supernovy> I've tried a couple, and the best one I ever coded in is Windows Presentation Foundation.

L707[15:02:17] <ve2dmn> I want to try and write something for the C-64

L708[15:03:33] <ve2dmn> I also want to go home and play KSP

L709[15:04:25] <oren> ve2dmn: write for the NES it's easier

L710[15:04:52] <ve2dmn> that's not a bad idea

L711[15:05:23] <oren> I've done both, but I gave up c64 it was a bit too complicated

L712[15:05:42] <ve2dmn> What about the gameboy?

L713[15:06:02] <oren> the OG gameboy is a completely different processor

L714[15:06:38] <oren> so you have to know Z80 instead of 6502

L715[15:07:03] <Ruedii> Any engine that uses Mono, .Net or CIL modules can use C#.

L716[15:07:06] <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/z80machinecode.htm

L717[15:07:23] <oren> it has more registers tho

L718[15:07:28] <ve2dmn> Ruedii: check the list

L719[15:07:36] <Ruedii> Yeah, that list is rather short.

L720[15:07:47] <Ruedii> It's missing a lot of game engines.

L721[15:08:00] <oren> http://www.orenwatson.be/6502machinecode.htm

L722[15:08:33] <oren> but 6502 has always one byte opcodes, there aren't modifier bytes

L723[15:08:49] <ve2dmn> There is a nice talk about the Gameboy internals

L724[15:09:08] <ve2dmn> I wish I could remember the name of it

L725[15:12:10] <ve2dmn> Wish I could re-create M.A.X.

L726[15:13:05] <ve2dmn> (even with just crappy graphics)

L727[15:16:29] <Ruedii> Unreal 4 has Mono extensions. Godat is a fairly good engine.

L728[15:18:47] <ve2dmn> oren: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyzD8pNlpwI & https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwRqWnW5ZkVaP_lZF7caZ-g

L729[15:18:47] <kmath> YouTube - The Ultimate Game Boy Talk (33c3)

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L732[15:34:52] <Ruediix> I found a place with a huge list of C# based game engines: https://www.slant.co/topics/4195/~3d-c-game-engines

L733[15:36:25] <KrazyKrl> But Ruediix what if https://i.imgur.com/hFAWvPA.jpg

L734[15:43:26] <madmerlyn> ve2dmn just for you https://i.imgur.com/TGy9EDl.png

L735[15:46:45] <Ruediix> KrazyKrl, hmm, looks like cross-polarization.

L736[15:47:54] <KrazyKrl> It was more a joke about having to wear glasses.

L737[15:48:00] <KrazyKrl> i.e. I can't see sharp.

L738[15:52:12] <SnoopJeDi> ve2dmn, oh my goodness, *30%* faster quartz? That is adorably bad

L739[15:52:51] <ve2dmn> SnoopJeDi: which video?

L740[15:53:02] <SnoopJeDi> The chinese gameboy clone mentioned in the gameboy one

L741[15:53:25] <ve2dmn> :D

L742[15:53:45] <SnoopJeDi> "Bah, clockspeed doesn't influence games, ship it"

L743[15:54:31] <ve2dmn> SnoopJeDi: it's MORE POWERFULL

L744[15:55:12] <SnoopJeDi> You can play games in 77% of the time! Efficiency!

L745[16:03:17] <ConductCat> :3

L746[16:04:47] <oren> they could have fixed that so easily though, with a counter circuit

L747[16:05:08] <oren> do 1 1 2 1 1 2

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L749[16:06:26] <oren> then you have, on average, 97.5% speed

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L753[16:19:14] <UmbralRaptor> Found Portal 3! https://photos.app.goo.gl/X80fwz6f04xIh0RC2

L754[16:24:01] <Kalpa> Wha?

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L757[16:34:36] <UmbralRaptor> Or Portals 3. Close enough.

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L761[16:37:45] <sandbox> you think valve will ever make another game?

L762[16:38:15] <ConductCat> Since when has Valve ever made a third anything?

L763[16:38:52] <sandbox> R* doesn't need to make another GTA either

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L765[16:39:48] <Mathuin> ve2dmn: have you explored GUI stuff with kOS?

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L767[16:40:27] <madmerlyn> weekend begins! time to play Stellaris

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L772[16:55:36] <madmerlyn> alright gonna try to build tall as a machine empire

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L777[17:05:41] <Phantom_Hoover> so i ultimately did go sourcediving in ksp interestellar, it's a bit... odd

L778[17:06:11] <Phantom_Hoover> basically the thrust output by a thermal nozzle is independent of the reactor it's attached to

L779[17:06:24] <Phantom_Hoover> er, the size of the reactor

L780[17:07:22] <Flub_ugh> oh damn https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yITr127KZtQ

L781[17:07:22] <kmath> YouTube - Traffic flow measured on 30 different 4-way junctions

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L783[17:11:25] <Phantom_Hoover> Flub_ugh, that's completely wrong for the roundabout

L784[17:11:37] <Phantom_Hoover> traffic on the roundabout has right of way, it never stops like in the video

L785[17:11:57] <Flub_ugh> the AI in cities skyline is dumb as heck

L786[17:12:56] <madmerlyn> actually fixing the roundabouts in Cities is a matter of disabling stop signs etc

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L788[17:13:43] <Phantom_Hoover> also does it include the swindon magic roundabout

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L796[18:12:59] <Eddi|zuHause> the first thing i did in cities skylines was download a mod that let me disable left turns

L797[18:13:49] <Eddi|zuHause> also, i generally hate roundabouts

L798[18:16:10] <Azander> my city has 2... and they are horrid. poorly setup mostly

L799[18:18:15] <Azander> figure simple 4 way stop. normal 2 lane roads. They pulled out the intersection and replaced it with the roundabout, but didn't expand the intersection any.

L800[18:19:15] <Phantom_Hoover> they're extremely common in britain and they're fantastic

L801[18:19:25] <Phantom_Hoover> cheap, simple and they keep traffic flowing

L802[18:19:53] <Phantom_Hoover> they're not even hard to drive around, i don't understand how people struggle

L803[18:21:43] <Azander> THis one is so tight it is like making a left turn

L804[18:22:13] <tawny> roundabouts are good for paradoxical reasons mostly

L805[18:22:26] <tawny> the harder you make it to drive, the more attention drivers have to pay to the road

L806[18:22:32] <tawny> and so you have fewer accidents

L807[18:22:52] <Azander> true, but there has been an increase of 10-20% in accidents at this one

L808[18:23:07] <tawny> yeah, I'm not too surprised

L809[18:23:24] <tawny> places like america do poorly with them because nobody's familiar with them

L810[18:23:26] <Phantom_Hoover> if people aren't familiar with them that's not too surprising

L811[18:23:29] <Azander> the other one, they expanded, and accidents have dropped off

L812[18:25:16] <Mathuin> Different states have different rules on how to handle roundabouts (also called rotaries here) -- there's one about two miles from the border between two states with different rules and there are a *lot* of accidents there.

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L823[18:45:51] <Flub_ugh> electron soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9PVmjjI_c

L824[18:45:51] <kmath> YouTube - Rocket Lab - Still Testing Launch

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L827[18:57:45] <Mathuin> If anyone here has played with GUI stuff in kOS, I'd love to see some simple demos. The only example I've seen is from RAMP's "fly" program which is helpful but more examples are more helpful.

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L829[19:05:14] <Draconiator> Holy crap those Rutherford engines are TINYYYYYYYYYYYYYY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngvow6egisg

L830[19:05:14] <kmath> YouTube - Rocket Lab’s Rutherford Engine Qualified for Flight

L831[19:06:02] <Flub_ugh> about the next size as the ones made by copenhagen suborbitals

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L833[19:08:43] <Draconiator> hmmm. maybe I can try to make a version of the Electron on KSP...I think I know how to as well.

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L844[19:54:55] <esspapier> you can do it ULA

L845[19:56:44] <Flub_ugh> im trying to find the pins of my flyback transfo

L846[19:56:52] <Flub_ugh> I decided that I want to make a driver for it

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L858[20:56:13] <Flub_ugh> any rocket nerd here knows how to calculate nozzles?

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L862[21:02:00] <Flub_ugh> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9PVmjjI_c

L863[21:02:01] <kmath> YouTube - Rocket Lab - Still Testing Launch

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L866[21:09:36] <Flub_ugh> launch soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K9PVmjjI_c

L867[21:09:36] <kmath> YouTube - Rocket Lab - Still Testing Launch

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