OCLogs: 2017-12-14.log

Stuff goes here

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L24[02:32:48] <Glass|phone> ya know the weirdest thing about japan is how nice the jehowah's whitnesses are

L25[02:34:12] <Glass|phone> ...spelling fail much

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L30[02:47:17] <mabus> but they are nice other places too? missionaries in general really

L31[02:47:31] <mabus> whats special about them in japan

L32[02:51:27] <Althego> you know why? because they dont care about them :)

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L36[03:01:14] <ConductingCat> I try to have none things to do with people who recruit for their religion.

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L38[03:05:59] <TheKosmonaut> Why is this even a topic of discussion in this channel

L39[03:06:04] <TheKosmonaut> That’s what I wanna know

L40[03:08:19] * ConductingCat would rather recruit kerbals for a space programme.

L41[03:08:28] <tawny> hey, has anybody here built sstos that work with scaled-up ksp?

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L43[03:08:37] <tawny> or even non-single stage spaceplanes really

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L45[03:08:56] <tawny> I'm trying to figure out what engines I ought to use, whether rapiers are good enough or whether I ought to try and do whiplash + nerv or something

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L48[03:20:11] <KrazyKrl> "Hello would you like to apply for exciting new opportunities as a solo explorer at a distant planet for an indefinite ammount of time?

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L50[03:20:13] <KrazyKrl> "

L51[03:21:04] <tawny> haha

L52[03:23:07] <KrazyKrl> "Please apply in-person with a full blood panel to "That's not burning flesh LLC""

L53[03:25:28] <KrazyKrl> "Our company is non-profit! (Even though we're really trying!)"

L54[03:30:27] <Gasher[work]> KrazyKrl, lol

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L57[03:45:59] <TheKosmonaut> tawny: SSTO planes in RSS or other scaled up versions of KSP are pretty hard

L58[03:46:10] <TheKosmonaut> I’ve yet to see anyone actually do one in RO

L59[03:46:20] <TheKosmonaut> That wasn’t just a ridiculous mess

L60[03:46:20] <tawny> mhm, that's not too surprising

L61[03:46:53] <tawny> I'm working with 6.4x scale right now, and (trying to) use smurff to adjust things to be more manageable

L62[03:47:13] <tawny> mostly the problem seems to be that I'm not used to thinking about it correctly?

L63[03:49:00] <tawny> I'm having to convince myself that turbofan engines aren't something I should try to use on it haha

L64[03:50:45] <TheKosmonaut> Usually by the time I make an SSTO I realize that I could have just done a reusable rocket more easily

L65[03:50:57] <TheKosmonaut> Or a dream chaser like design

L66[03:51:14] <tawny> haha

L67[03:52:26] <tawny> honestly I'm only really doing it for the challenge

L68[03:52:51] <tawny> and also because spaceplanes are cool in theory and I'm sad that real life makes them not good at things

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L71[04:05:33] <TheKosmonaut> Don’t let Skylon fanboys catch you saying that

L72[04:06:43] <tawny> in ksp, at least, they seem to have a pretty nice payload fraction to LEO

L73[04:06:46] <tawny> or LKO I guess

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L76[04:21:24] * Mat2ch throws a precooler at TheKosmonaut

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L105[08:10:22] <sandbox> so, disney and fox

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L110[08:29:42] <Arcanitor> eh?

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L114[08:37:25] <transitbiker> minecraft livestream this morning followed by KSP after lunch

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L116[08:37:44] <transitbiker> https://youtu.be/DKtVpvzUF1Y?t=124 liftoff is 10:00 eastern time US

L117[08:37:44] <kmath> YouTube - Apollo 11 Saturn V Launch Camera E-8

L118[08:38:22] <Fluburtur> yo transit

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L126[08:46:23] <transitbiker> bwoop

L127[08:47:27] <JCB> mm.. morn'n...

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L130[08:55:43] <transitbiker> minecraft live! (ksp later) https://gaming.youtube.com/user/ibook133/live

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L141[09:11:53] <ve2dmn> OK, I'm officially starting to get bored with No Man Sky. It only took 23h

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L144[09:14:45] <Althego> and this is the improved version

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L146[09:18:46] <UmbralRaptor> Mars http://www.dlr.de/dlr/en/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-10081/151_read-25327/

L147[09:29:07] <ve2dmn> Althego: It's a never ending display of slightly different planets

L148[09:29:45] <ve2dmn> I'll finish the main story and try out the base construction stuff, but it's just not good enough

L149[09:30:04] <ve2dmn> Also, it feel slightly like a console port on the PC

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L157[11:02:16] <Fluburtur> KrazyKrl u there?

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L164[11:49:54] <transitbiker> any man's sky?

L165[11:50:14] <transitbiker> Fluburtur, will do your craft tomorrow - i am just too plain tired today

L166[11:50:21] <Fluburtur> ok

L167[11:50:24] <Althego> any person's sky :)

L168[11:50:29] <Althego> the pc version :)

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L170[11:50:54] <Althego> and we can also argue about whether this applies to ais or not :)

L171[11:53:22] <transitbiker> how about just "sky"

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L173[11:54:15] <transitbiker> all your planets are belong to us

L174[11:54:28] <transitbiker> except europa, attempt no landing there

L175[11:54:37] <transitbiker> use them together, use them in peace

L176[11:55:01] <Blaank> https://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/680355 Here you go. No Man's Sky experience is free.

L177[11:55:05] * transitbiker reveals himself to be a 1+4+9 object

L178[11:55:19] <Blaank> Seriously, that's the entire game.

L179[11:56:28] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5jWtz3rzco

L180[11:56:29] <kmath> YouTube - Jurassic Park No Man's Sky Harmonica video from reddit NOT MINE

L181[11:56:54] <Blaank> classic

L182[12:03:05] <sandbox> indeed

L183[12:03:27] <transitbiker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdPdkw5uYxo

L184[12:03:27] <kmath> YouTube - Heavy Transport Truck Gone Wrong !!! Amazing Extreme Trucks Operator Skills

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L187[12:13:57] <transitbiker> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knrHPneSN10

L188[12:13:58] <kmath> YouTube - Nuclear Fusion Energy: The Race to Create a Star on Earth

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L193[12:36:13] *** UmbralRaptor is now known as NomalRaptor

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L197[12:41:03] <ve2dmn> Blaank: I don't have flash... what's that thing about?

L198[12:41:11] <APlayer> Hi!

L199[12:48:16] <Blaank> It's literally No Man's Sky

L200[12:48:30] <Blaank> Well, everything that makes the game uniuqe and interesting.

L201[12:48:36] <Blaank> It's spot on.

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L203[12:56:19] <ve2dmn> Because I didn't follow the hype, I don't understand the hate

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L206[13:01:39] <Althego> ladies and gentlemen, which will win, the tokamak or the stellerator?

L207[13:01:46] <Althego> place your bets now!

L208[13:02:32] <Althego> well there is the natian ignition facility or what is its name with the lasers, but i kind of wrote that off

L209[13:04:25] <JCB> prototype fusion plant?

L210[13:05:13] <Fluburtur> tokamak

L211[13:05:19] <Fluburtur> because og iter

L212[13:07:01] <Althego> but msot of the research went int otokamak for decades and nothing happened

L213[13:10:50] <JCB> the thing at Cern seems to get more attention.. ugh black holes, really?

L214[13:11:04] <Althego> but cern doesnt do fusion

L215[13:12:25] <JCB> no.. just slams things into other things...

L216[13:12:48] <JCB> yet.. people still thought.. oooh black hole will suck it down.. but anyways..

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L218[13:18:37] <SnoopJeDi> NIF isn't entirely orthogonal to e.g. ITER

L219[13:18:49] <SnoopJeDi> it's just about ignition, which is actually a pretty tricky thing

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L221[13:21:19] <Althego> apparently nothing is simple in fusion

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L225[13:31:27] ChanServ sets mode: +o on Supernovy

L226[13:31:33] <Supernovy> Evening, Gentlemen.

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L228[13:35:20] <oren> can't we just drop fusion bombs into an underground lake, run the steam thru a turbine and call that a fusion reactor

L229[13:37:07] <oren> or "fusion-boosted geothermal"

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L233[13:55:11] <Scolar_Visari> Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Pluto is still not a planet.

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L237[13:56:50] <Scolar_Visari> Continued claims to the contrary will be punished severely.

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L242[14:05:47] <sandbox> he's a dog

L243[14:08:41] * Scolar_Visari decides to uninstall Rome II once more, unconvinced naval battle is worth the effort.

L244[14:09:45] <sandbox> the old ones are the best ones

L245[14:09:50] <APlayer> Scolar_Visari: Uh, so why did you just revoke the solar system's outermost planet's title?

L246[14:10:07] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: You're mistaken, the outermost known planet is Neptune.

L247[14:10:14] ⇨ Joins: Xeetalim (~Xetalim@2a02:a440:e706:1:b5be:88d5:c892:aa9e)

L248[14:10:22] <Scolar_Visari> sandbox: I actually liked Empire and Shogun 2, but Rome 2 is a whole lot of meh.

L249[14:10:58] * Scolar_Visari would've really liked a DLC that involved the Persian Empire circa Cyrus the Great.

L250[14:11:03] <Althego> i am really hoping for planet 9

L251[14:11:07] <sandbox> I never played anything past Napoleon

L252[14:11:18] <Althego> but however big it is, it moves slowly an very far away according to prediction

L253[14:11:58] <Scolar_Visari> sandbox: Shogun 2 is a bit easier naval battle wise, and the Fall of the Samurai expansion pack is great fun.

L254[14:12:07] * Scolar_Visari recommends FotS for Napoleon and Empire players.

L255[14:12:20] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: That's Planet IX to you!

L256[14:12:24] <sandbox> I think I own FotS, but I've never installed it

L257[14:12:45] <Althego> hehe and the ixians live there :)

L258[14:12:52] <Althego> with high tech :)

L259[14:13:07] <Scolar_Visari> sandbox: Artillery is dominatingly useful in it.

L260[14:13:20] * Scolar_Visari always makes a beeline to Armstrong breach loading cannons.

L261[14:14:23] <Scolar_Visari> Though it is quite possible to play FotS as a, "traditional" faction, particularly in the early game. Peasant musket levees are little match for thousands of charging yari ashigaru.

L262[14:16:06] <Scolar_Visari> Though they struggle against modern breach loader armed infantrymen with the kneeling fire ability.

L263[14:16:37] <Scolar_Visari> Also: Gatling guns built in provinces with fully upgraded gunsmiths.

L264[14:17:23] <Scolar_Visari> And, gulp, repeater carbine cavalry.

L265[14:26:16] <Scolar_Visari> Naval battles are also a bit easier than in Napoleon and Empire, as all ships are steam powered, and the use of explosive and advanced AP ammunition can make them brutally short affairs.

L266[14:26:24] <oren> lol, neptune is planet 9

L267[14:26:56] <Althego> what

L268[14:26:57] <Scolar_Visari> oren: You're mistaken. Neptune is Planet VIII.

L269[14:27:15] <Althego> if you count ceres in maybe

L270[14:27:33] <oren> duhhh, round, orbits the sun. planet.

L271[14:27:47] <Althego> actually no

L272[14:27:55] <Althego> according to the international definition of the planet

L273[14:28:06] <Althego> it also "needs to clear its neighborhood"

L274[14:28:21] <Althego> whic is stupid because even jupiter has things there

L275[14:28:28] <oren> all the planets have asteroids in close porximity

L276[14:28:35] <Althego> exactly

L277[14:28:50] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: The idea is not that they lack debris in their orbit, but that they dominate their orbit by mass.

L278[14:28:53] <Althego> but anyway now if you are part of an asteroid belt, you are not a planet

L279[14:28:54] ⇨ Joins: FreeThinker (webchat@c11154.upc-c.chello.nl)

L280[14:29:07] <FreeThinker> hello?

L281[14:29:11] <Althego> hi

L282[14:29:12] <Mod9000> Hello, Althego

L283[14:29:13] * Scolar_Visari notes the Jovian Trojans, while rivaling the Asteroid Belt in net mass, are still dwarfed by Jupiter.

L284[14:29:15] <Althego> lol

L285[14:29:18] <Althego> silly bot

L286[14:29:19] <oren> Althego: I want them to also revise the definition of a moon

L287[14:29:34] <oren> phobos and deimos are not real moons

L288[14:29:53] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Astronomers beg to differ.

L289[14:30:02] <oren> and jupiter has 4 moons, not 90

L290[14:30:18] <FreeThinker> what clasifies as a moon?

L291[14:30:25] <Scolar_Visari> FreeThinker: It orbits a planet.

L292[14:30:27] <oren> a round thing that orbits a planet

L293[14:30:35] <APlayer> Only big balls of ice cream

L294[14:30:39] <oren> it has to be rounded by its gravity

L295[14:30:49] <Scolar_Visari> Oren's attempting to use hydrostatic equilbrium as another characteristic, which astronomers do not use.

L296[14:30:55] <Supernovy> It's more difficult to think of things that aren't dwarfed by jupiter. Inside the solar system, at least.

L297[14:30:58] <APlayer> ...so, a round pebble classifies?

L298[14:31:00] <Scolar_Visari> Supernovy: The Sun!

L299[14:31:03] <APlayer> qualifies*

L300[14:31:16] <Supernovy> Scolar_Visari: That's one, go on.

L301[14:31:19] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: Hydrostatic equilibrium covers fairly massive objects.

L302[14:31:27] <Scolar_Visari> Supernovy: Uh . . . unseen WIMPs?

L303[14:31:30] <Althego> then what are the moons of asteroids and kuiper belt objects?

L304[14:31:45] <FreeThinker> Too bad KSP orbit model is so limmited

L305[14:31:46] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Exactly why oren's definition isn't terribly useful.

L306[14:31:54] <Scolar_Visari> FreeThinker: We have Principia, though!

L307[14:31:58] <APlayer> FreeThinker: Principia comes to your aid

L308[14:31:59] <Supernovy> A moon should be defined as a 1) natural object that 2) orbits a planet that is also 3) convenient to call a moon

L309[14:32:02] <oren> Scolar_Visari: how many moons does saturn have, and is that more or less than the number of sand grains on the shores of the pacific ocean

L310[14:32:29] <Scolar_Visari> oren: A lot. Again, astronomers get to set the definition. If you don't like it, tough.

L311[14:32:35] <FreeThinker> planets and moons can only spin vertically on one axis

L312[14:32:36] * Scolar_Visari glares at Alan Stern.

L313[14:32:50] <Scolar_Visari> FreeThinker: Sometimes that spin can get reversed!

L314[14:32:51] <APlayer> Really, it's weird how all those things like moons and planets need waterproof definitions, as if they were laws that could lead to trouble if a loophole was discovered

L315[14:33:09] <FreeThinker> Scolar_Visari: I'm not talking orbital mechanics

L316[14:33:13] <APlayer> I mean, all those scientists can't wait to file a lawsuit that Ceres is actually a planet

L317[14:33:21] <Scolar_Visari> FreeThinking: Venus got its spin reversed.

L318[14:33:42] <Scolar_Visari> Atmospheric braking retrograde orbit, hurray!

L319[14:33:45] <oren> FreeThinker: uranus spins on it's side

L320[14:33:48] <FreeThinker> How is that possible?

L321[14:34:02] <Scolar_Visari> FreeThinker: The Venusian atmosphere.

L322[14:34:10] <FreeThinker> Yes, but we cannot achieve it in KSP, not really

L323[14:34:21] ⇨ Joins: Mathuin (~jmt@c-73-96-43-159.hsd1.or.comcast.net)

L324[14:34:26] <APlayer> RSS adds inclined rotational axes

L325[14:34:37] <APlayer> No idea how, but I guess it is possible after all

L326[14:34:38] <Scolar_Visari> And Principia adds n-body physics!

L327[14:34:56] <Mathuin> Looks like Humble Bundle has a 48-hour sale on KSP, 50% off.

L328[14:34:56] <Althego> i think there is one object in the solar system that is orbiting in the wrong direction

L329[14:35:09] <Supernovy> is it a comet

L330[14:35:10] <Althego> ok there is one moon that is also orbiting retrograde

L331[14:35:11] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Perhaps. Triton orbits Neptune in the 'wrong' direction too.

L332[14:35:22] <FreeThinker> the problem with Principa is that persistant strust effect do not work with it

L333[14:35:33] * Scolar_Visari notes Triton is almost certainly a captured Kuiper Belt Object.

L334[14:35:57] <oren> triton is a valid moon though. nice and round

L335[14:36:03] <Supernovy> See now that would be an interesting addition to KSP, a planet with multiple moons, one of which is orbiting retrograde relative to the others.

L336[14:36:13] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Roundness is irrelevant.

L337[14:36:19] <APlayer> FreeThinker: Well, given that Persistent Thrust never worked for me no matter what I tired...

L338[14:36:23] <Scolar_Visari> Supernovy: That'd also be really fun to run into!

L339[14:36:45] <APlayer> Supernovy: Principia.

L340[14:36:49] <FreeThinker> For KSPIE Bussard Ramjet Magnetic scoop I implemented atmospheric, solarwind and interstellar drag effect

L341[14:36:49] <APlayer> Retrobop.

L342[14:36:59] <FreeThinker> which work ferfectly in KSP

L343[14:37:04] <Scolar_Visari> APlayer: I was thinking of just spelling the host planet's name backwards.

L344[14:37:05] <Althego> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_BZ509

L345[14:37:07] <Supernovy> APlayer: Dialogues

L346[14:37:13] <FreeThinker> except when principa is installed

L347[14:37:24] <oren> Pob

L348[14:37:53] <Supernovy> it'd be really fun to figure out the transfer window phase angle to it from another moon.

L349[14:38:05] * Scolar_Visari checks to see what Alan Stern's up to now.

L350[14:39:19] <FreeThinker> does anyone here play KSPIE?

L351[14:40:45] ⇦ Quits: Gasher (~Gasher@broadband-46-188-122-41.2com.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

L352[14:41:11] * Scolar_Visari rolls eyes at a two page paper that pretty much says: "If it's vaguely round it's a planet!"

L353[14:41:23] <Supernovy> I'm on stock for now.

L354[14:41:46] <Althego> stockton darlington :)

L355[14:41:56] <oren> Scolar_Visari: I think it has to orbit a star, in a vaguely circular orbit

L356[14:42:08] <oren> a round comet doesn't count

L357[14:42:18] <APlayer> And cleaned up vaguely most of the debris around its orbit

L358[14:42:37] <Supernovy> which comets don't do, in fact, they dirty their orbits. see: meteor showers

L359[14:42:40] <FreeThinker> what about a miniature blackhole, about the mass of the mun

L360[14:42:42] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Nope. Stern et al. actually add that orbit is irrelevant in their definition.

L361[14:42:54] <Supernovy> Because of rogue planets?

L362[14:43:17] <oren> Scolar_Visari: that's stupid. then what are moons

L363[14:43:27] <Scolar_Visari> oren: Stern would classify them as planets.

L364[14:43:57] <oren> stupid, look we have a heirarchy of thingies: Star, planet, moon, moomin

L365[14:43:59] ⇦ Quits: SopaXorzTaker (~SopaXorzT@77.139.59.160) (Remote host closed the connection)

L366[14:44:15] <Althego> moomin?

L367[14:44:19] <Althego> what is that

L368[14:44:20] <Scolar_Visari> oren: It's just moons after planets. I know, again, you don't like it, but astronomers really don't care.

L369[14:44:38] <Scolar_Visari> Sort of like how they don't care that Stern has been upset since 2006.

L370[14:44:47] <oren> Althego: slurred together moon of moon

L371[14:45:02] <Althego> those are usually not stable in the long run

L372[14:45:20] ⇦ Quits: Davnit (~Davnit@72.189.115.20) (Ping timeout: 383 seconds)

L373[14:45:34] <Althego> hehe, reminds me of the beginning of 2010, "have you checked the orbit?"

L374[14:45:35] <APlayer> A sub-moon?

L375[14:45:40] ⇦ Quits: FreeThinker (webchat@c11154.upc-c.chello.nl) (Quit: Web client closed)

L376[14:45:51] <APlayer> Althego: Check yo orbits?

L377[14:45:52] <oren> APlayer: that could work too

L378[14:45:57] <Althego> and then they realize they have to go now, but only ther russians have a ship ready

L379[14:47:00] <JCB> ... sub satellite...

L380[14:47:12] <Supernovy> Moon de la Moon

L381[14:48:11] <JCB> though... only saying because, mun probe carrying a little sub probe.. or lander thing

L382[14:48:51] <oren> Anyway, i would accept their "clearing of orbit" thing if it had a reasonable deifnition like "body is over 50% of the mass in its belt"

L383[14:49:16] <JCB> ugh... do all the delta v maps start at 8km above mun's surface for orbit stuff? what if I wanna be 25 or 30km up?

L384[14:49:17] <APlayer> Once more... Why do you need a waterproof definition?

L385[14:49:27] <JCB> no wonder my probe had problems getting bac to orbit.

L386[14:49:37] <APlayer> If it is a planet by common sense, historical value or whatever, let it be a planet

L387[14:49:40] <Scolar_Visari> oren: There are many definitions. Stern, in fact, was one of the first to champion the use of clearing orbits and employed several such definition formulas.

L388[14:49:45] <APlayer> If it is not, do not let it be a planet

L389[14:50:05] <APlayer> Why waste time thinking up definitions as if that was a legally relevant thing?

L390[14:50:07] <oren> APlayer: because we need to able to number the planets around a star, the moons of a planet, etc into a system

L391[14:50:20] <Scolar_Visari> Amusingly, Stern's last paper on the subject completely mischaracterized the IAU's meaning of, "clearing the neighborhood".

L392[14:50:28] <oren> e.g. our moon is Sol-III-1

L393[14:50:54] <APlayer> oren: Again, why not rely on common sense when classifying planets?

L394[14:51:04] <Supernovy> why not give the sun a number too?

L395[14:51:15] <Scolar_Visari> Supernovy: Sol A?

L396[14:51:27] <Scolar_Visari> To be contrast with Sol B, which is clearly Nemesis.

L397[14:51:34] <Scolar_Visari> Or Jupiter.

L398[14:51:35] <Supernovy> Just count all the stars in the galaxy and when you get up to sol, that' will be our number.

L399[14:51:39] <APlayer> There will always be grey zones, but we can of course spend millions and thousands of research hours towards thinking up waterproof definitions... And re-thinking them when they fail.

L400[14:51:57] <Althego> this is what i thought when moomin was mentioned https://youtu.be/SZxbcVmZ8u8?t=16

L401[14:51:58] <kmath> YouTube - Jack O'Neill vs the ancient repository

L402[14:52:09] ⇦ Quits: Supernovy (~Supernovy@122-59-115-106.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) (Quit: Be back later.)

L403[14:52:31] <JCB> way I look at it.. we still learning. We hadn't expected things to be so unexpected prior to sending out our craft to the solar system

L404[14:52:36] ⇨ Joins: Davnit (~Davnit@72.189.115.20)

L405[14:52:50] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: The, ah, "demotion" of Pluto was not an unprecedented event, either.

L406[14:52:55] <Scolar_Visari> Poor Ceres.

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L408[14:53:13] <Althego> but how did we get to neptune being 9th?

L409[14:53:19] <oren> ceres is over 33% of the mass in the asteroid belt

L410[14:53:37] <oren> but not over 50%

L411[14:53:56] <JCB> untill new horizons.. we only knew so much of Pluto...

L412[14:54:28] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: Well it was generally thought of as being similar to Triton, which is also a geologically active body with an interesting albeit fairly puny atmosphere.

L413[14:54:57] <JCB> some have considered it a binary planetary system

L414[14:54:58] <Scolar_Visari> I suppose geologically active is the only word I can use to describe bodies with lots of cryovolcanism.

L415[14:55:29] <oren> cryologically active

L416[14:55:57] <Scolar_Visari> Originally, Triton itself was suspected to have liquid nitrogen seas.

L417[14:55:58] ⇦ Quits: StCypher (~StCypher@ip-94-44-244-173.seattle.us.northamericancoax.com) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)

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L419[14:56:35] <APlayer> No liquid helium?

L420[14:56:40] * APlayer is disappointed

L421[14:57:03] <Scolar_Visari> Helium's odd stuff.

L422[14:57:06] <Althego> imagine that. we would go there to drain the liquid helium lakes

L423[14:57:20] <Althego> but it is not cold enough for that

L424[14:57:39] <Scolar_Visari> Pluto's a bit out of the way for materiel in any event.

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L426[14:58:52] <APlayer> Althego: Mission proposal: Cool Jupiter to sub-He-condensation temperatures, launch a big pipe, gather liquid helium

L427[14:59:01] <APlayer> Amazon delivery might cooperate

L428[14:59:03] <Althego> hehe

L429[14:59:32] <Scolar_Visari> Uranus is your best bet if you want helium, courtesy of its low gravity at 1 atmosphere of pressure level.

L430[14:59:57] <Scolar_Visari> Though we have plenty on Earth right now.

L431[14:59:58] <Althego> just collect it from the moon

L432[15:00:06] <Althego> not so much

L433[15:00:07] <Mathuin> I thought we were running out of helium on Earth.

L434[15:00:09] <Althego> it is running out

L435[15:00:17] <APlayer> Well, if we do fusion reactors, we shall have Helium as a by-product

L436[15:00:25] <Scolar_Visari> Nope, not any more.

L437[15:00:35] <Althego> how so?

L438[15:00:35] <Scolar_Visari> http://www.eag.eu.com/about/media/lightness-of-helium/

L439[15:01:38] <APlayer> Anyway, I'm off for now

L440[15:01:43] <APlayer> For today, that is

L441[15:01:48] <APlayer> See you!

L442[15:01:51] <oren> can we not just manufacture helium by decaying lithium

L443[15:02:14] <oren> after hitting it with a nuetron

L444[15:02:39] <Scolar_Visari> oren: That's actually for tritium and helium-3 production.

L445[15:02:44] <JCB> yet my room mate freaks out, oh no.. going to run out of copper soon.. eh..

L446[15:03:16] <Scolar_Visari> Helium-3 being a daughter product of tritium, while helium-4 is produced by deuterium-tritium fusion.

L447[15:03:27] <oren> oh right. well, helium 3 superconduscts jsut as well hopefully

L448[15:03:53] <Althego> copper is also interesting

L449[15:04:14] <Althego> we would run out of copper if every human used as much copper as we in developed countries

L450[15:04:30] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Clearly we need to return to lead piping.

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L452[15:04:41] <Althego> mostly because of electricity

L453[15:04:42] <Scolar_Visari> Or replace it with gold.

L454[15:04:48] <Althego> all the wires and cables

L455[15:04:51] <Althego> haha

L456[15:05:01] <Althego> which is even more rare

L457[15:05:26] <Scolar_Visari> Psht, we can get more.

L458[15:05:42] <oren> Althego: all you do is project quicksilver over iron and boom you getcopper

L459[15:05:44] <JCB> mm.. mining the solar system

L460[15:06:07] <oren> or you can fuse two iron atoms into a copper atom

L461[15:06:21] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: The recovery of heavy elements like Gold from asteroids is a bit of a pain, as it's typically distributed rather diffusely where on Earth there are geological and hydrological processes that concentrate it.

L462[15:07:01] <Scolar_Visari> So to get gold from an asteroid, you'd have to move and process a hideous amount of dirt without the neato chemical proceses we have on Earth.

L463[15:07:16] <Scolar_Visari> Though I suppose mercury poisoning would be less of an issue.

L464[15:07:34] <Scolar_Visari> Water, however, is mercifully easy to acquire.

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L466[15:09:02] <Scolar_Visari> "There's water in them rocks!"

L467[15:09:34] <JCB> perhaps though its better than nothing.

L468[15:09:59] <Althego> the asteoid mining company (forgot their name) want to mine water. because you c an make rocket fuel with sunlight

L469[15:10:01] <Scolar_Visari> Water's more important to human life than gold.

L470[15:10:15] <Althego> and water is abundant

L471[15:10:26] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: The water itself could be used as propellant, with bonus points for being quite storable.

L472[15:10:27] <JCB> there was talk about making fuel on mars with a base station... already know we can make o2 on moon regolith

L473[15:10:27] <Althego> so if it is already in space and can be used to refill

L474[15:10:37] <Althego> then it is a huge resource

L475[15:10:47] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: Oxygen in Lunar regolith would require a lot of energy to recover, as its bonded to other things.

L476[15:11:05] <Althego> i tought moon minerals lak oxygen

L477[15:11:17] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Oxygen is THE most common element on the moon.

L478[15:11:32] <Althego> oh wait it was water

L479[15:11:45] <Scolar_Visari> http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/neep602/LEC12/IMAGES/soil_comp.JPG

L480[15:12:26] <Scolar_Visari> Water is rarer than was once thought, and recovery on the Moon would be problematic.

L481[15:12:53] <Scolar_Visari> In contrast to Mars, where water exists on and below the surface with free atmospheric carbon-dioxide to boot.

L482[15:15:32] <JCB> considering you get 2 weeks of sun each shot...

L483[15:15:38] <JCB> mind you 2 weeks of darkness too but whatever

L484[15:15:39] <Scolar_Visari> C-type asteroids also have worthwhile amounts of water trapped within, and accessing it could be done by baking the material out.

L485[15:16:30] <Scolar_Visari> JCB: Amusingly, water could be used as the material for hydrogen fuel cells needed to store energy for Lunar nights.

L486[15:17:00] <Scolar_Visari> Excess thermal energy created during the day time could also be stored in molten Lunar rocks for later recovery.

L487[15:17:54] * Scolar_Visari points to Colozza's, "Analysis of Lunar Regolith Thermal Energy Storage" from 1991 http://denning.atmos.colostate.edu/readings/lunar.regolith.heat.transfer.pdf

L488[15:17:57] <Althego> hehe like molten salt power plant

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L490[15:18:17] <Scolar_Visari> Althego: Less like molten salts and more like siphoning energy from a pool of molten magma underneath a volcano.

L491[15:18:42] <Althego> i think i better sleep

L492[15:18:56] <Scolar_Visari> There are a few other papers on the subject, too.

L493[15:19:04] <Scolar_Visari> But I haven't gotten to flywheel energy storage yet!

L494[15:19:17] <Althego> with superconductor in vacuum?

L495[15:19:38] <Scolar_Visari> I was thinking of just regular conductors in lieu of supercoolant use.

L496[15:19:50] <Scolar_Visari> Think about it: You could make the flywheel in situ!

L497[15:20:14] <Althego> i thought these were primarily used for momentary energy loss compensation, not for continuous run

L498[15:20:49] <Scolar_Visari> You can use them for rather long term storage if need be.

L499[15:21:49] <Scolar_Visari> There are power grids which do this, in fact, and maintenance free flywheel storage units would be of particular interest for Lunar or Martian bases.

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L501[15:23:01] * Scolar_Visari leaves to ponder the lifetime of large electric grid batteries and their diminishing performance returns.

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L505[15:34:57] <JCB> doh..

L506[15:36:01] <legion> https://youtu.be/rGkseGFQLh4 for you, JCB

L507[15:36:01] <kmath> YouTube - JCB Song - Nizlopi (Full Version HQ)

L508[15:38:52] * JCB face palms

L509[15:39:02] <JCB> ah ya... the tractor company...

L510[15:39:17] <JCB> this just my initials...

L511[15:40:40] <legion> that is whow the company got its name, those are initials too

L512[15:40:46] <legion> *how

L513[15:40:59] <legion> and it is just a fun song

L514[15:41:44] <Mathuin> I worked for a company named Net Daemons Associates, but the CEO (who chose the name) would say "Hello, No Dogs Allowed" on the phone sometimes

L515[15:43:17] <Fluburtur> https://youtu.be/DwYuHqCwXFI

L516[15:43:17] <kmath> YouTube - Giant 13kJ RUBY LASER CANNON! Test Shots and Overview!!

L517[15:44:58] <JCB> well.. if it helps, I'm not Joseph Cyril Bamford...

L518[15:45:40] <JCB> mind you.. I probably should have JBC.... middle and last initial was switched

L519[15:47:30] <legion> well, atleast you aren't Meg(atron)

L520[15:49:17] <JCB> ... ok?

L521[15:51:20] <legion> Meg Griffin?

L522[15:52:20] <JCB> here I thought femme bot megatron... oops

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L524[15:52:34] <JCB> ya sorry.. didn't exactly follow family guy stuff

L525[15:53:01] <legion> neither do i, but i am a Transformers fan

L526[15:56:07] <Fluburtur> https://youtu.be/D7sj7L1uLiw

L527[15:56:07] <kmath> YouTube - 4 Ton Wrecking Ball in Slow Motion - The Slow Mo Guys

L528[15:57:58] <ve2dmn> What is the moon made of mostly?

L529[15:59:38] <FireFlower> rip internet

L530[15:59:55] <FireFlower> or lets say about ~320M users rip

L531[16:00:59] <ve2dmn> FireFlower: politics?

L532[16:01:43] <Rokker> looks like politics to me

L533[16:02:12] <JCB> where these guys from? Quite a few american stuffs..

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L535[16:10:07] <JCB> eh anyways

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L562[18:19:11] <oren> Twitch drives Moon Rover

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L585[20:01:02] <FltAdmVonSpiz> just a quick question (sorry I keep bothering people with such questions) but the delta-v requirement to land at the highest point on Bop is low enough to land and return to orbit on an EVA pack right?

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L587[20:01:09] <FltAdmVonSpiz> what with the huuuge mountain

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L589[20:10:01] <Supernovy> I was about to say "you can do that on Minmus" But I think perhaps that's only one way.

L590[20:10:05] <Supernovy> Maybe it's two-way.

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L595[20:23:15] <FltAdmVonSpiz> youi can do it one way on Gilly

L596[20:23:19] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I believe its close

L597[20:23:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> I was pondering places for fueling/comms depots

L598[20:23:39] <FltAdmVonSpiz> and a position that can be reached with ludicrously low delta-v seems good

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L601[20:26:54] <taniwha> Minmus is such that you can EVA from 100km orbit, land, and return to Kerbin

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L608[21:08:51] <Fluburtur> uh that again https://78.media.tumblr.com/e7ad45a3e16132f30d21c3107d0f7d74/tumblr_ox616llBrU1wnn8hoo6_540.png

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L611[21:19:30] <FltAdmVonSpiz> also perhaps return from Dres to Kerbin via Jool for the gravity assists?

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L642[23:32:24] <JCB> mm.... LT-1 landing legs are ... annoying

L643[23:32:40] <JCB> sorry.. LT--05...

L644[23:34:13] <JCB> or maybe its just the craft configuration... ugh

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L648[23:37:25] <JCB> lands on one of the pads, gets stuck...

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