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L1[00:01:21] <Infi​nityB> yeah that's what I wanted. Thanks
L2[00:07:17] <Infi​nityB> https://tinyurl.com/yytl638o
L3[00:07:34] <Infi​nityB> wireless card?
L4[00:09:46] <Infi​nityB> yes, it was
L5[00:17:33] <CompanionCube> %tonkout
L6[00:17:35] <MichiBot> Dagnabbit! Compan​ionCube! You beat Va​ur's previous record of 6 hours, 2 minutes and 41 seconds (By 1 hour, 2 minutes and 42 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L7[00:17:36] <MichiBot> Compan​ionCube has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.007 tonk points! plus 0.006 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 1.255021. Position #2 Need 0.20765155 more points to pass Va​ur!
L8[00:57:43] <Ocawes​ome101> ULOS pre4 is out
L9[00:57:50] <Ocawes​ome101> i'd appreciate feedback :P
L10[01:44:28] <Amanda> Elfi~~~ your brother's stiring up trouble in the mortal realm again~~~ https://i.imgur.com/893VYKa.jpg
L11[01:49:39] * Amanda curls up around Elfi, passes out
L12[01:49:44] <Amanda> Night nerds
L13[02:19:34] ⇦ Quits: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-16-11-156.as13285.net) (Remote host closed the connection)
L14[03:05:12] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com) (Quit: Leaving.)
L15[03:24:26] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv|afk (~ben_mkiv@200116b814aded00f6f2095349fa5b9f.dip.versatel-1u1.de) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L16[03:33:38] <Forec​aster> %tonk
L17[03:33:41] <MichiBot> Fudge! Forec​aster! You beat Compan​ionCube's previous record of <0 (By 3 hours, 16 minutes and 4 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L18[03:33:42] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 3 hours, 16 minutes and 4 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00327 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.1703003 more points to pass Compan​ionCube!
L19[03:54:42] <Izaya> Skye, @ThePiGuy24: this seems relevant https://virtuallyfun.com/wordpress/2021/06/04/elijah-millers-nec-v30-on-a-pi-hat/
L20[04:05:02] <CompanionCube> Izaya: today on IRC; joining a meme network made real and impersonating Quakenet services despite never connecting to quakenet.
L21[04:05:29] <CompanionCube> (though for a few seconds i was NickServ to say 'lol' as)
L22[04:05:37] <Izaya> nice
L23[04:05:46] <Izaya> fuck Q is annoying
L24[04:06:35] <CompanionCube> at one point we had ChanFix, Q, X and maybe NickServ together in the channel
L25[05:05:47] <Izaya> egh
L26[05:07:17] <Izaya> so in SE, if a thruster is of the Hydrogen variety, all the power use is translated into how much fuel it takes, you can't have thrusters that take both fuel and energy
L27[05:08:46] <Izaya> so I guess if I want resistojets that means a block that consumes gas and energy and turns it into another sort of gas that the engines actually use ..>
L28[05:08:47] <Izaya> >.>
L29[05:14:59] <Izaya> Okay, never mind, oxygen generator type machines can only take ice as input.
L30[05:19:41] ⇨ Joins: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8268:1a00:39f8:b69b:fc73:1b2e)
L31[05:35:34] <MR_SP​ᐰGETTY> has anyone made/seen a system that used a robot or drone to construct a holographic map of an area?
L32[05:43:58] ⇨ Joins: Kayochuu (~Kayochuu@198.244.101.140)
L33[05:48:34] <Kayochuu> Hey all, I'm trying to make a lua script to dump IRC messages onto a display (For Twitch) but no matter what I do I keep getting timeout errors :/ I'm able to use wget/pastbin commands fine, it's only a problem in the script I wrote. I can post my pastebin link it that's okay, I have no idea what I'm doing wrong here..
L34[05:55:26] <CompanionCube> does your irc script do the PING/PONG?
L35[05:56:02] <Kayochuu> theoretically it should
L36[05:56:24] <Kayochuu> if I set a timeout on my connection to like 1s or something it will timeout, otherwise it returns nil after a while
L37[05:56:46] <CompanionCube> i mean the irc protocol PING/PONG
L38[05:57:01] <Kayochuu> Yeah that's what I was talking about
L39[05:57:44] <Kayochuu> My script is almost the same as the example given on the website
L40[05:57:45] <Kayochuu> https://ocdoc.cil.li/api:internet
L41[06:00:20] <Kayochuu> Here's what I have: https://pastebin.com/BP9CKHMP
L42[06:00:33] <Kayochuu> And these are the results I get: Timeout set: https://cdn.everything.moe/uploads/javaw_By7VOJTs7F.png
L43[06:00:33] <Kayochuu> No timeout set: https://cdn.everything.moe/uploads/javaw_Wx54adR1zi.png
L44[06:00:42] ⇦ Quits: glasspelican (~quassel@2607:5300:201:3100::325) (Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.)
L45[06:01:04] <CompanionCube> have you tried comparing with irc.lua
L46[06:01:36] ⇨ Joins: glasspelican (~quassel@2607:5300:201:3100::325)
L47[06:02:39] <Kayochuu> irc.lua does calls the pcall function with sock.read instead of calling con:read, but I don't know enough about lua to understand the difference there.
L48[06:03:15] <Kayochuu> oh are pcalls just a poor mans try/catch lol
L49[06:10:04] <Kayochuu> oh, it doesn't like me reading before I've set my nick and user, that makes sense
L50[06:17:15] ⇦ Quits: Kayochuu (~Kayochuu@198.244.101.140) (Quit: Leaving)
L51[07:08:12] ⇦ Quits: Hawk777 (~chead@2607:c000:8268:1a00:39f8:b69b:fc73:1b2e) (Quit: Leaving.)
L52[07:16:24] <Corded> * <Mic​hiyo> facedesk
L53[07:19:58] <Mic​hiyo> I hate routing... lol
L54[07:21:15] ⇨ Joins: xandaros (~xandaros@ip4d14459a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de)
L55[07:41:34] <Va​ur> %tonk
L56[07:41:35] <MichiBot> Darn it! Va​ur! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of 3 hours, 16 minutes and 4 seconds (By 51 minutes and 49 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L57[07:41:36] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 4 hours, 7 minutes and 54 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.00344 (0.00086 x 4) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L58[07:45:34] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-63-219.dynamic.as20676.net)
L59[07:45:35] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
L60[07:50:36] ⇨ Joins: s_a_m (~sam@pool-70-16-239-151.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net)
L61[08:44:00] <Sagh​etti> hi guys
L62[08:44:02] <Sagh​etti> i don't exist
L63[08:44:12] <Izaya> [x] doubt
L64[09:03:52] ⇨ Joins: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net)
L65[09:45:06] <Sagh​etti> thinking of daily driving freebsd
L66[09:53:30] <bad at​ vijya> neat
L67[10:03:05] <GreaseMonkey> been there, done that, still had fun at lan parties
L68[10:03:50] <Sagh​etti> also working on this thing called bctk
L69[10:04:06] <GreaseMonkey> is that Tk for buildcraft
L70[10:04:11] <Sagh​etti> no
L71[10:04:16] <Sagh​etti> basically
L72[10:04:25] <Sagh​etti> what if: it was actually easier to write projects in c?
L73[10:05:07] <GreaseMonkey> honestly, give it a few more years and the answer to that would be "use Zig"
L74[10:05:32] <GreaseMonkey> or are you talking about getting it set up
L75[10:05:43] <Sagh​etti> as in, you didn't need to spend hours fucking with obscure linker errors, strugging to make it build cross platform, hunting down the version of a library that works with your compiler, etc
L76[10:05:51] <Sagh​etti> what if that was all just a single command away
L77[10:05:56] <Sagh​etti> `bctk build`
L78[10:06:09] <Sagh​etti> bctk stands for "the better c toolkit"
L79[10:06:40] <GreaseMonkey> so you're basically wanting to build a cross-platform package manager and metabuild system
L80[10:06:50] <Sagh​etti> yes (that isn't cmake because fuck cmake)
L81[10:07:01] <Sagh​etti> think: npm for c
L82[10:07:11] <t20kdc> hunting down the version of a library that works with your compiler is, to my knowledge, mostly a Windows problem, and is therefore inescapable (you could pick either 'standard' - and then be forced to deal with the other 'standard')
L83[10:07:12] <GreaseMonkey> i'd rather think of it as pip for c
L84[10:07:29] <GreaseMonkey> npm makes me think of left-pad
L85[10:07:32] <GreaseMonkey> and activity-streams
L86[10:07:54] <Sagh​etti> t20kdc: yeah, linux is free from 99% of these problems
L87[10:07:54] <GreaseMonkey> and the various sublibraries of the case conversion suite which are sublibraries because lol
L88[10:08:10] <Sagh​etti> windows is the only reason why this is an issue
L89[10:08:14] <GreaseMonkey> and i'll be blunt: CMake is pretty ok
L90[10:08:22] <GreaseMonkey> what you're really trying to say is "fuck windows"
L91[10:09:42] <GreaseMonkey> getting lists of all of the debian packages and attempting to put them all together for Windows would be one hell of a task but if you can somehow pull it off then you'd actually have a good reference to go by for the sorts of packages you'd want
L92[10:10:18] <GreaseMonkey> it's the sort of thing you would never be done with, but it'd give you an idea of the sorts of things you need
L93[10:10:52] <Sagh​etti> i'm aware that bctk is a pretty lofty project
L94[10:10:57] <Sagh​etti> but i have time to burn
L95[10:11:00] <t20kdc> honestly though the big problems in regards to Windows library stuff are specifically around how MSVC treats import libraries, as mingw is capable of working directly with DLLs
L96[10:11:01] <Sagh​etti> quite a bit of time to burn
L97[10:11:27] <Sagh​etti> speaking of mingw, i'm planning on having bctk use mingw exclusively
L98[10:11:50] <Sagh​etti> another part of of bctk is that it's fully self contained
L99[10:11:58] <Sagh​etti> as in, you don't need to have anything pre-installed
L100[10:12:12] <Sagh​etti> one of the issues i was having is that i had both msys2 and mingw installed
L101[10:12:26] <Izaya> > npm for c
L102[10:12:32] <Izaya> soon: left-pad-bitfield
L103[10:12:32] <Sagh​etti> msys2's GCC and mingw's GCC would clash (they are different surprisingly)
L104[10:13:47] <Sagh​etti> so bctk will auto-download mingw32-gcc into a .bctk folder in your project
L105[10:14:14] <t20kdc> > project-specific copies of the compiler
L106[10:14:26] <t20kdc> Izaya: this is def. sounding like NPM
L107[10:15:59] <Sagh​etti> not going to model this completely after npm though
L108[10:16:09] <Sagh​etti> i only brought it up because of `npm init`
L109[10:16:29] <Sagh​etti> pip just installs stuff
L110[10:16:49] <Sagh​etti> npm actually manages project
L111[10:17:19] <Sagh​etti> a better analogy would be `go` or `cargo`
L112[10:39:03] <Kristo​pher38> What the hell spaghetti
L113[10:39:29] <Kristo​pher38> You know that the solution is just not to use windows, right??
L114[10:40:14] <GreaseMonkey> pip has "pip freeze" to dump the information you have to a file to be loaded via "pip install -r filename.txt"
L115[10:40:22] <GreaseMonkey> and you typically pair it with venv
L116[10:57:15] ⇦ Quits: xandaros (~xandaros@ip4d14459a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L117[10:57:32] ⇨ Joins: xandaros (~xandaros@46.246.122.54)
L118[10:58:55] <dequbed> @Saghetti Time to burn is exactly what bctk sounds like. The better way of using C is not using C. The problem you're describing are (somewhat) inherent to C and are best solved by /not using C/
L119[10:59:36] <Sagh​etti> i'm well aware
L120[10:59:36] <dequbed> problems too
L121[11:00:09] <Sagh​etti> not having proper dependency management, cross platform support, etc. is solely an issue with C being ~50 years old
L122[11:00:26] <Sagh​etti> and bctk is trying to fix what's already too broken
L123[11:00:27] <dequbed> No, that's not it.
L124[11:00:31] <dequbed> Those are the easy problem.
L125[11:00:34] <dequbed> problems too
L126[11:00:35] <dequbed> ffs
L127[11:00:50] <Sagh​etti> explain then
L128[11:00:55] <Sagh​etti> what else do i need to fix here
L129[11:00:59] ⇨ Joins: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@host-92-16-11-156.as13285.net)
L130[11:01:29] <Sagh​etti> @Kristopher38 i wish i could just build for linux
L131[11:01:37] <Sagh​etti> it would make my life so much easier
L132[11:01:58] <Sagh​etti> but there's far too many windows users (including me)
L133[11:02:10] <Sagh​etti> so if i were to make a game or something, it needs to have a windows build
L134[11:03:28] <dequbed> "obscure linker errors" are something you can't actually solve unless you care to completely redesign the way C links stuff (aka "not use C"). Cross platform is a problem of not having libraries and C interfaces being too low level for it to be worth it, solved best by not using C. And "the version that works with your compiler" is down to C having several compilers. Best solution: Don't use C.
L135[11:03:53] <dequbed> Just use C++. Or Zig. Or Nim. Or hell swift.
L136[11:04:42] <Kristo​pher38> dequbed: i like how your solution is similar to my "we need to remove all computers from this world" when something breaks and I have "I hate software" moment
L137[11:04:54] <dequbed> We don't. C is *particularly* bad.
L138[11:06:10] <Sagh​etti> the thing is though: i was able to fix the obscure linker errors. i was able to write code that worked on both windows and linux without using cygwin. i was able to hunt down those libraries i needed in order to get it working
L139[11:06:47] <dequbed> yeah but you don't want to do it in one case specifically. You want to solve it *generally*.
L140[11:07:18] <Sagh​etti> lets say you need to use sdl2 with your application (like i did)
L141[11:08:17] <Sagh​etti> bctk will reference a manifest file on a bctk repository server, called sdl2.json or whatever
L142[11:08:36] <Sagh​etti> inside this file will be two targets: linux and windows-mingw32
L143[11:08:49] <dequbed> So if you're using MacOS you're fucked? ^^
L144[11:09:06] <Sagh​etti> want me to make it 3?
L145[11:09:24] <Sagh​etti> i'm keeping 2 for the moment because i don't have a mac system to test on
L146[11:09:42] <Sagh​etti> and it's fairly easy to get linux c code to compile on mac
L147[11:10:03] <Sagh​etti> from my experience at least
L148[11:10:27] <Sagh​etti> anyways each target will have links to libraries, compiler flags, etc. that are needed to build this project for said target
L149[11:10:41] <dequbed> How do you know those?
L150[11:10:57] <Sagh​etti> trial, error, and compatibility testing for each lib
L151[11:11:01] <Sagh​etti> i had to do it for sdl2 on windows
L152[11:11:02] <Sagh​etti> hold on
L153[11:11:15] <dequbed> Given that C isn't namespaced and two libraries can be completely incompatible with each other because they use different malloc's
L154[11:11:38] <Sagh​etti> wdym different mallocs
L155[11:11:44] <dequbed> Ah. I see.
L156[11:11:47] <dequbed> Well glhf.
L157[11:12:42] <Sagh​etti> so for example, to get sdl2 apps to build on windows, i had to add the flags `-DSDLmainh -DSDLmainh`
L158[11:12:57] <Sagh​etti> because sdl2 does some fuckery with hooking main
L159[11:13:11] <dequbed> I am happy for you that you have not been burned by "a library uses glibc malloc and I have an edgecase where that ptr is passed to msvc free which segfaults"
L160[11:13:35] <Sagh​etti> and you need to link an additional library to get it running on windows, `-lSDL2main`
L161[11:14:00] <dequbed> I mean a repository of common libraries that more or less work together is already a thing. It's usually called a package manager and windows got itself one of those too
L162[11:14:29] <Sagh​etti> dequbed: glibc and msvc calls in the same library????
L163[11:15:12] <dequbed> @Saghetti sorry, I misunderstood you. When you say "obscure linker errors" I thought you meant something like "COMMON folding edgecases end up redefining a symbol invalidating it"
L164[11:15:55] <dequbed> Well if you're writing a package manager for C that's fine and all. Have fun :)
L165[11:17:47] <Sagh​etti> dequbed: you're being so incredibly unhelpful here
L166[11:17:57] <Sagh​etti> but idfc at this point
L167[11:18:53] <Sagh​etti> if a library uses glibc malloc and msvc free at the same time, that's a library issue
L168[11:21:01] <dequbed> @Saghetti I'm sorry, I misunderstood your goals. That is all. But let me tell you this: I think you don't realize the scope or the depth of the issue you're *saying* you're trying to tackle.
L169[11:21:24] <Sagh​etti> alright, lets re-scope then
L170[11:21:30] <dequbed> or at least what I'm parsing from your statements
L171[11:22:56] <Sagh​etti> a c package management and build tool that aims to make creating c and building c projects as hassle-free as possible
L172[11:23:20] <dequbed> Why not meson? Or CMake? Plus a dep manager that is
L173[11:23:48] <dequbed> Which IIRC chocolately or whatever provides for windows
L174[11:23:56] <Kristo​pher38> Because >fuck CMake
L175[11:24:22] <Kristo​pher38> Spaghetti: you do realize if you spent some time and effort understanding CMake you'd have an easier time
L176[11:24:35] <Kristo​pher38> (I have yet to make that effort)
L177[11:24:54] <Kristo​pher38> (so obv take this with a grain of salt)
L178[11:25:10] <dequbed> Less "easier time" more "CMake solves this exact issue"
L179[11:25:52] <Kristo​pher38> Easier time as in easier time using it
L180[11:26:26] <dequbed> fair
L181[11:26:36] <dequbed> CMake is complex. Almost like if the issue at hand is complex.
L182[11:27:12] <Sagh​etti> last time i tried to use cmake i got stuck on deciphering what the fuck cmakelists.txt syntax is
L183[11:27:27] <Kristo​pher38> I feel like the most disdain for CMake comes from the additional layer of abstraction that it provides hence it's not easily understandable what happens under the hood
L184[11:27:57] <dequbed> @Saghetti have a look at meson then.
L185[11:28:09] <dequbed> https://mesonbuild.com/
L186[11:29:15] <Sagh​etti> already looking at it
L187[11:32:22] <Sagh​etti> honestly this looks pretty good aside from the lack of a package manager
L188[11:32:45] <dequbed> https://chocolatey.org/
L189[11:33:18] <SquidDev> I've not really found meson any better than cmake. It's the same awkward hoops, just with a better syntax.
L190[11:33:18] <SquidDev> Though maybe that's just because my build-system needs are different.
L191[11:33:39] <dequbed> SquidDev: As I said. It's almost as if the issue at hand is complex.
L192[11:34:35] <SquidDev> Agreed, and I've not used any in anger enough to have strong opinions. GN+Ninja seems nice, and none of them can be as awkward as SCons.
L193[11:34:41] <Sagh​etti> dequbed: chocolatey helps how? on debian i can do `apt install libsdl2-dev`, but not with chocolatey
L194[11:34:56] <Sagh​etti> it doesn't do library management afaik
L195[11:35:23] <dequbed> @Saghetti I don't do Windows building with C but iirc chocolately can do that. If not, that's something you could totally write for Windows+C.
L196[11:35:40] <Sagh​etti> not like windows even has any standardized library or include paths (unline linux)
L197[11:35:54] <dequbed> That being said http://conan.io/ is literally the first search result for that particular issue
L198[11:35:56] <Sagh​etti> unlike*
L199[11:37:13] <Sagh​etti> conan website giving me bad vibes imma be honest
L200[11:37:23] <SquidDev> Also vcpkg, which comes from MS.
L201[11:39:28] <Sagh​etti> vcpkg is windows specific though :(
L202[11:39:29] <dequbed> @Saghetti that was my way of saying "maybe you should research into alternatives because there are some already"
L203[11:43:40] <Sagh​etti> the search "c package manager" brings up conan, https://github.com/clibs/clib (which is linux/cygwin only as far as i can tell), vcpkg, and a bunch of posts and articles asking why c doesn't have a package manager
L204[11:44:32] <Sagh​etti> update: looks like clibs has native windows binaries
L205[11:46:22] <Sagh​etti> no sdl2 https://tinyurl.com/y2mbaddl
L206[11:47:37] <Sagh​etti> most likely due to it being built on cygwin
L207[11:48:51] <dequbed> @Saghetti that all being said. The best way to solve the issue with C is really to just use nim(ble) or zig/gyro.
L208[11:49:55] <Sagh​etti> that's such a non-solution it's acutally insane
L209[11:50:20] <dequbed> Is it though?
L210[11:50:23] <Vampyre> Saghetti, I don't think you realize what you are getting yourself into, you are trying to solve the portability problem
L211[11:50:23] <Sagh​etti> like kristopher38 said: "we need to remove all computers from this world"
L212[11:50:34] <Vampyre> many attempts have been made over the past 50 years to solve that, even way before windows was a thing
L213[11:50:42] <Vampyre> You'll be legendery if you solve it ;-)
L214[11:51:17] <dequbed> @Saghetti no, it's like saying "A porsche is a very bad vehicle to move large amounts of stuff in. Why don't you use a ford transporter?"
L215[11:51:47] <Kristo​pher38> wdym removing all computers is a non-solution, that would literally solve ALL our software problems :(
L216[11:52:29] <Kilobyte> It would also create a lot more problems everywhere else
L217[11:53:04] <Vampyre> no problems we didn't had in the past (by definition almost ;-))
L218[11:53:30] ⇦ Quits: maxpowa (~m@irc.everythingisawesome.us) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L219[11:53:36] <Vampyre> problems also likely very solved when we did invent computers
L220[11:54:31] <dequbed> Vampyre: You can't. Solving the issue means writing a C-like language that *is not C*.
L221[11:54:49] <Vampyre> yah, I know
L222[11:55:04] <Vampyre> not in the last place because i tried to solve it myself and failed ;-)
L223[11:55:40] <Sagh​etti> rust :>
L224[11:56:17] <dequbed> No, Rust is very much not a C-like language.
L225[11:56:41] ⇨ Joins: maxpowa (~m@irc.everythingisawesome.us)
L226[11:57:22] <dequbed> @Saghetti and additionally, Rust does not give you basically free C interop. Zig and Nim try to. Rust's bindgen is *comparatively* a lot of pain :P
L227[11:57:44] <Sagh​etti> i thought we were trying to replace c here
L228[11:58:23] <dequbed> We were? Good to know that is one *nice* goal.
L229[11:58:34] <Sagh​etti> sorry, you*
L230[11:58:41] <Vampyre> no no, don't do that, C is sacred! big fan! ;-)
L231[11:59:13] <dequbed> @Saghetti Well if I could I totally would but last I checked we were discussing you trying to have less problems with C deps.
L232[11:59:19] <dequbed> Slightly different goal.
L233[12:00:51] <Sagh​etti> i'm done with this conversation
L234[12:00:55] <Sagh​etti> it's 5 am
L235[12:01:20] <Amanda> No it's 0800
L236[12:01:21] <Sagh​etti> and all that you're really contributing is just saying "don't use c"
L237[12:02:01] <dequbed> All I was trying to convey is that a potential solution would be to use a language with dep management and a good C FFI. That allows you to have packages of e.g. SDL2 that are designed to work on several platforms *and* you get to not use C!
L238[12:02:12] <Vampyre> Saghetti, you will run into different compilers, different executable forms, different linkers/assemblers, different libraries, etc
L239[12:02:38] <Vampyre> the C environment is just too open and diverse to generilize
L240[12:02:54] <Vampyre> but again, try it
L241[12:03:07] <Vampyre> I did try and it at least made me a Makefile Guru ;-)
L242[12:03:26] <dequbed> Just use CMake ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L243[12:03:30] <Vampyre> made a whole package manager just using GNU make
L244[12:05:24] <Vampyre> CMake wasn't as popular yet back then
L245[12:06:00] <dequbed> Vampyre: "Back in my day!" :p
L246[12:06:06] <Vampyre> lol
L247[12:06:29] <Vampyre> well, 10 to 15 years ago... it's still in this century!
L248[12:06:45] <dequbed> Well CMake got popular around 2005 so you *just* missed it
L249[12:07:01] <dequbed> But at least you didn't inflict on yourself the pain that is GNU autotools for MS Windows
L250[12:07:39] <dequbed> @Saghetti Oh also SCons is an alternative to Meson and CMake but I found that even worse than Meson back when I used it. Been a while though
L251[12:09:46] <Z0id​berg> honestly
L252[12:09:56] <Z0id​berg> all build tools suckl
L253[12:09:58] <Amanda> Inhonestly
L254[12:10:04] <Amanda> Meow
L255[12:10:21] <dequbed> @Z0idberg what did you just say about our lord and saviour M4? Fite me!
L256[12:10:22] * Amanda checks on her fairy fren
L257[12:10:59] <Z0id​berg> you already hate me forever but would you hate me if I told you I like M4?
L258[12:11:05] <Vampyre> yes... m4 worked great... look at sendmail :-p
L259[12:11:14] <Corded> * <Z0id​berg> still uses sendmail
L260[12:11:20] <dequbed> @Z0idberg I hate you? Good to know.
L261[12:11:29] <dequbed> I wasn't aware of that :P
L262[12:11:30] <Z0id​berg> mostly because I've been using it for years and years
L263[12:11:35] <Z0id​berg> ahahahahaha
L264[12:11:36] <Amanda> %tell Inari did you put a magnet on my holoemitter again? I had a weirder than usual dream
L265[12:11:36] <MichiBot> Ama​nda: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.
L266[12:11:37] <Vampyre> Z0idberg, me too, not the point ;-)
L267[12:12:25] <dequbed> Isn't there also a new MTA around now that's webscale? :P
L268[12:12:35] <Z0id​berg> I do think postfix can be nice but if sendmail is there by default I'm not going to go out of my way to set up postfix
L269[12:12:43] <Amanda> Yes it's called "pay for one like sendgrid"
L270[12:13:03] <Vampyre> postfix will be the default in version 15, just around the corner
L271[12:13:17] <Z0id​berg> Oh yeah I got IRCcloud set up again
L272[12:13:19] <Vampyre> (if we're talking about the same thing ;-)
L273[12:13:22] <Z0id​berg> what am I doing on discord
L274[12:13:34] <Amanda> Commiting a great sin
L275[12:13:50] * S3 spins around yelling wheeeeeeeeeeee
L276[12:13:59] <dequbed> Ah yes. Haraka! MTA in JS running on node.js
L277[12:14:08] <S3> Wait what
L278[12:14:10] <S3> WHY
L279[12:14:14] <dequbed> https://haraka.github.io/
L280[12:14:23] <dequbed> It's so webscale it has a github.io website
L281[12:14:29] <Z0id​berg> wait a minute
L282[12:14:40] <Z0id​berg> it's node.js but highly scalable?
L283[12:14:47] <dequbed> No, it's webscale
L284[12:14:47] <Z0id​berg> let's test that
L285[12:14:51] <Z0id​berg> ah
L286[12:14:58] <dequbed> Have you *seen* "webscale" software?
L287[12:15:09] <Z0id​berg> I was choking on "Haraka is a highly scalable node.js email server"
L288[12:15:25] <Z0id​berg> Not really
L289[12:15:36] <Amanda> dequbed: click on "known users" -> 404
L290[12:15:38] <dequbed> TBF I like the idea. I don't have a need to replace postfix but just from skimming it Haraka seems to be cool
L291[12:16:10] <Z0id​berg> I just wish we'd replace email period
L292[12:16:14] <Z0id​berg> but with what is the question
L293[12:16:22] <Amanda> MongoDB is webscale!
L294[12:16:23] <dequbed> Discord!
L295[12:16:25] <Vampyre> postal pigeons
L296[12:16:26] <Z0id​berg> LOL
L297[12:16:47] <Z0id​berg> RFC 6214
L298[12:17:31] <Vampyre> nah, real ones, victorian era email ;-)
L299[12:17:42] <dequbed> @Z0idberg Email is not going to be replaced sadly. It would be enough if we could get a compatability break but that's unlikely too. But XMPP is reasonable™
L300[12:18:05] <dequbed> That or Matrix
L301[12:18:07] <S3> sigh
L302[12:18:12] <S3> I absolutely hate XMPP
L303[12:18:19] <dequbed> Why though?
L304[12:18:32] <S3> Mostly from a bot writing perspective which is horrible
L305[12:18:47] <dequbed> Huh?
L306[12:19:14] <Z0id​berg> Some of it is because I hate XML
L307[12:20:21] <dequbed> I mean I guess but XMPP removes most of the parts of XML that make it really painful. And you don't implement XML yourself anyway.
L308[12:20:22] <S3> I actually don't remember a whole lot about my experience with XMPP but I remember it being confusing and annoying to get to work
L309[12:20:45] <S3> also this is an experience from like 10 years ago
L310[12:20:57] <S3> so it may be outdated
L311[12:21:17] <dequbed> Maybe. There are better libraries around now but mostly because there are better languages around now :P
L312[12:21:38] <S3> It's kind of hard to like something when the only thing you remember about it is having a bad time lol
L313[12:21:47] <S3> as unfair an argument it is
L314[12:22:24] <dequbed> As long as you're open to having your opinion changed again it's not too bad
L315[12:22:38] <S3> Let's see, in the past 10 years, I switched over completely from being pretty much a full time Perl programmer to being an Elixir programmer
L316[12:22:49] <S3> Though I write in Java for work which is annoying af
L317[12:23:06] <S3> because Java 8 feels so limited to me
L318[12:24:00] <S3> If I had a reason to do it again I would, though it will always feel dirty to me because of the xml under the hood hahahahahaha
L319[12:24:32] <dequbed> Java has a *really* nifty dynamic linking and loading system under the hood, that's about as much as I know about the JVM :P
L320[12:24:55] <S3> I think the JVM is fine
L321[12:25:18] <S3> it's mostly that I've been spoiled with super awesome crazy OOP features from other languages that Java doesn't support in version 8
L322[12:27:00] <S3> moving on to a newer version of Java is one of our goals at work, but I don't think the newest versions support full mixins still and things
L323[12:27:14] <S3> I do like the Java 8 lambdas
L324[12:28:31] <S3> Mostly what I have been doing at work is actually SQL though and I have to say I have been using mariadb / mysql for years, and now that I've gone really deep into postgresql's features and postgis as well, I don't think I could use mysql again for my relational databases unless I had to for my own projects
L325[12:28:56] <S3> postgresql is incredible for relational queries
L326[12:31:14] <Izaya> wrote an XMPP bot a month or two ago
L327[12:31:21] <Izaya> it was surprisingly pleasant
L328[12:31:34] <S3> I had a nightmare though the other day because somebody stored an entire table of data as XML into one column of another sql table
L329[12:31:41] <S3> and I was like, who DAFUQ did this
L330[12:32:02] <S3> I wrote a query to convert it to a normal table
L331[12:32:21] <S3> Izaya: You probably had libraries to help though?
L332[12:32:30] <Izaya> was using a framework
L333[12:32:35] <Izaya> custom bot setup comes later
L334[12:32:41] <S3> When I first started doing it the xmpp libraries weren't working for me, so I had to parse the XML using libxml or something
L335[12:32:46] <S3> and that was shit
L336[12:33:20] <Izaya> I'm vaguely intending to write one in Lua with luasocket and some sort of XML lib
L337[12:33:29] <Izaya> but I wrote one in python using sleekxmpp and like
L338[12:33:35] <S3> I never got luasocket to work
L339[12:33:43] <Izaya> I don't enjoy python, but it was pleasant.
L340[12:33:45] <S3> I wanted to add it as a module to Trotwood
L341[12:33:54] <S3> that way you could just run Trotwood on some server and use it for a router
L342[12:34:05] <S3> since it will boot without OC and run just fine
L343[12:34:12] <Izaya> sudo pacman -S lua5.whatever-luasocket
L344[12:34:25] <S3> I think I used luarocks
L345[12:34:42] <S3> It was more of a "why is this code not working" sort of thing
L346[12:34:50] <S3> and I have no idea what was not working at this point
L347[12:35:09] <S3> my idea was to expose the message passing features over it
L348[12:35:16] <S3> so an OC computer could add it as a node
L349[12:35:20] <Izaya> I used lua for the inter-minitel bridge
L350[12:35:27] <Izaya> s/lua/luasocket/
L351[12:35:28] <MichiBot> <Izaya> I used luasocket for the inter-minitel bridge
L352[12:35:36] <S3> huh
L353[12:35:41] <Izaya> it justwerked tbh
L354[12:35:44] <S3> source code for that in the minitel repo?
L355[12:36:02] <Izaya> yup
L356[12:36:14] <S3> if I pick it up again someday I should look into that
L357[12:36:27] <Izaya> https://github.com/ShadowKatStudios/OC-Minitel/blob/master/vTunnel/bridge.lua
L358[12:36:46] <Izaya> also supports writing pcap files and there's a thing for pulling apart packets too
L359[12:36:55] <S3> because that was my big point, was that if you wanted to make a bridge online you didn't have to run a different program, you could just download trotwood onto some server and run it with lua 5.2 or 5.3
L360[12:37:00] <S3> and voila
L361[12:37:23] <S3> you could get a shell and give it commands etc
L362[12:38:33] <S3> I think it was a smart decision to make the shell interface like mikrotik routers instead of DMS-10 overlay shells though
L363[12:38:54] <S3> I do however like the line feature / equipment stuff that Nortel systems have and I'd want to keep that
L364[12:39:33] <S3> The benefits of a mikrotik routeros like shell is that I can make the entire shell a data tree
L365[12:39:46] <S3> so different software can add its own commands in the tree
L366[12:40:15] <Izaya> oh that reminds me I need to set my housemate's switchport back to 10Mbps
L367[12:42:45] <S3> Wat
L368[12:43:08] <Izaya> he wasn't sharing
L369[12:43:16] <Izaya> so I made him share
L370[12:44:04] <S3> I had to set up QoS queues on my mikrotik at home with my last girlfriend
L371[12:44:16] <S3> so that she could watch netflix and crap, and when I got on RDP I got priority
L372[12:44:30] <S3> and it would also cap the entire network so that I never saturated the DSL
L373[12:45:12] <S3> queues are nice because I can still let somebody have all the bandwidth until I start using it
L374[12:53:13] <S3> infina: no.
L375[12:56:19] <Izaya> hmm
L376[12:56:53] <Izaya> gitea hasn't made any move re: the freenode management changes nor the spambots that are in the channel every hour or so
L377[12:57:29] <Z0id​berg> holy shit
L378[12:57:36] <Z0id​berg> I've had my phone number for less than one day
L379[12:57:55] <Z0id​berg> and I'm already getting automated voicemails about getting laid
L380[12:58:27] <Amanda> getting laid? All I get is "Your extendted car warrenty!"
L381[12:58:42] <Izaya> read this recently, I can't help but agree https://www.devever.net/~hl/e164
L382[12:58:50] <Amanda> and one preying on cchinese immigrants
L383[13:00:33] <Z0id​berg> I actually use google voice to hide my real number, mostly because It's easier to keep your phone number that way, don't have to port it
L384[13:00:47] <Z0id​berg> plus I don't give out my phones actual number so I know it's always spam
L385[13:01:26] <Z0id​berg> Only two people know my home phone number too
L386[13:01:28] <Z0id​berg> for my POTS
L387[13:01:39] <Z0id​berg> so if it rings it's 99.99% always spam
L388[13:01:49] <Izaya> there's a company that does phone access over XMPP
L389[13:01:56] <Z0id​berg> it's usually either medicare or car warranty scams
L390[13:01:56] <Izaya> both SMS/MMS and calls
L391[13:08:27] <Izaya> https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2021/06/04/1f89b5a7913e362a.mp4
L392[13:32:43] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)
L393[13:34:38] <luc​soft> >Iz​aya: https://vid.pr0gramm.com/2021/06/04/1f89���
L394[13:34:38] <luc​soft> That’s from tiktok like half a month old
L395[13:39:22] <Izaya> I'll take your word for it
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L399[14:17:32] <Ocawesome101> hello there
L400[14:18:59] <Izaya> greetings
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L403[15:19:56] <Va​ur> %tonkout
L404[15:19:58] <MichiBot> Kapow! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of 4 hours, 7 minutes and 54 seconds (By 3 hours, 30 minutes and 28 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L405[15:19:59] <MichiBot> Va​ur has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.007 tonk points! plus 0.012 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 1.48511255, Position #1
L406[15:32:00] <Forec​aster> hm, idea, implement "mine" ammo type, record holder can booby trap the tonk, tonking blindly if mine is in place results in slight loss (very small compared to shells), an attempt to disarm can be made once per player per day, has a small chance to fail
L407[15:41:55] <Va​ur> mining the tonk would be interesting, though I dont know if I like untrapping being RNG
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L410[15:45:41] <Forec​aster> since there are no attributes/skills yet I can't do much else with it
L411[16:18:46] <Izaya> Ariri: https://aspirant.de/system/media_attachments/files/106/353/333/052/354/099/original/c43e99afd7673f5e.jpg
L412[16:25:03] <Va​ur> %tonk
L413[16:25:05] <MichiBot> Dagnammit! Va​ur! You beat your own previous record of <0 (By 1 hour, 5 minutes and 6 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L414[16:25:06] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 1 hour, 5 minutes and 6 seconds! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.00109)
L415[16:25:57] ⇦ Quits: Ocawesome101 (~quassel@2600:380:676d:573d:90fd:fe6e:2baa:4a97) (Ping timeout: 204 seconds)
L416[19:33:52] ⇨ Joins: Neo (~neo@ip229.ip-51-222-228.net)
L417[19:33:57] <Mic​hiyo> Test
L418[19:34:04] *** Server sets mode: +ntz
L419[19:34:21] <Hawk777> Michiyo: pass
L420[19:34:27] <Izaya> fail
L421[19:34:34] <Mic​hiyo> Missing about ~3 hours of logs on https://irclogs.pc-logix.com
L422[19:34:35] <Mic​hiyo> but meh
L423[19:34:42] <bad at​ vijya> lmao i just realized i haven't implemented binary cpio in lcpio
L424[19:34:51] <Izaya> 3 hours of lags
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L426[19:35:54] <Mic​hiyo> New server: https://tinyurl.com/y62ol6zf
L427[19:36:26] <Mic​hiyo> https://tinyurl.com/y4k4nwpg
L428[19:37:17] <Mic​hiyo> New server is doing more, with far less load... may have something to do with the 5x more CPU cores.. lol
L429[19:37:51] <Forec​aster> more gnomes under the hood
L430[19:39:16] <Izaya> gnome'd
L431[19:40:58] <bad at​ vijya> guhnome
L432[19:50:12] <s_a_m> Izaya: i need to make a revision of TSAR and by revision of TSAR i mean a total rework on TSAR since it was never actually made to make foxfs's and tsuki's managed filesystem's forks work
L433[19:50:16] <s_a_m> lmao
L434[19:50:25] <s_a_m> might just name it something else
L435[19:51:25] <s_a_m> .far, maybe. Fork Aware aRchive.
L436[19:55:44] <luc​soft> i thought a load average over 1 is bad?
L437[19:55:48] <luc​soft> i thought a load average over 1 is "bad"? [Edited]
L438[20:05:22] <Mic​hiyo> it's 1 per core.
L439[20:05:33] <Mic​hiyo> on a single core system 1 is 100%
L440[20:10:19] ⇨ Joins: Amanda (~Amanda@c-73-165-62-84.hsd1.pa.comcast.net)
L441[20:10:57] <Ocawes​ome101> ex. i have a load average of 3.8 on a 6 core system
L442[20:14:11] <bad at​ vijya> today in sam writing funny code
L443[20:14:14] <bad at​ vijya> `u16 forks; // what is wrong with you if you have over 65535 forks.`
L444[20:15:46] <bad at​ vijya> honestly this isn't even actual code
L445[20:15:56] <bad at​ vijya> it's just a comment in a lua file
L446[20:16:08] <bad at​ vijya> where i'm planning out a data structure
L447[20:16:19] <bad at​ vijya> and how i'll serialize it
L448[20:19:43] <CompanionCube> %inv add pissnet
L449[20:19:43] * MichiBot summons 'pissnet' and adds to her inventory. This seems very sturdy.
L450[20:22:59] <Forec​aster> %tonkout
L451[20:23:00] <MichiBot> Yeah! Forec​aster! You beat Va​ur's previous record of 1 hour, 5 minutes and 6 seconds (By 2 hours, 52 minutes and 49 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L452[20:23:01] <MichiBot> Forec​aster has stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.003 tonk points! plus 0.002 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to 50% because stealing) Current score: 1.0907207. Position #3 Need 0.1643003 more points to pass Compan​ionCube!
L453[20:47:06] <Izaya> figured it out
L454[20:47:15] <Izaya> trigger is secretly gainax
L455[20:47:50] <bad at​ vijya> trigger did it
L456[20:47:53] <bad at​ vijya> he's the closest
L457[20:47:53] <Izaya> now I just have to keep the show in mind for the next 10 years and it'll sort itself out.
L458[20:48:34] <bad at​ vijya> mmm https://tinyurl.com/y2llknfm
L459[20:49:20] <Izaya> everyone loves trigger and gainax
L460[20:49:27] <Izaya> always been more into bones
L461[20:49:34] <t20kdc> CompanionCube: dare I ask
L462[20:50:00] * t20kdc does some checks... oh, it makes sense now
L463[20:50:06] <Izaya> DSL over salty liquid
L464[21:04:26] <ThePi​Guy24> DSL over a kalash
L465[21:04:33] <ThePi​Guy24> or rather, two kalash
L466[21:09:11] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@2001:16b8:1e80:3a00:6455:f618:c3a7:8e2d) (Remote host closed the connection)
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L468[21:15:05] *** TPG24 is now known as ThePiGuy24
L469[21:15:38] <Ocawes​ome101> Izaya: today i fixed escape sequences not registering as keys under LuPPC
L470[21:15:50] <Ocawes​ome101> so OpenOS 100% works now as far as i can tell
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L479[22:39:55] <Va​ur> %tonk
L480[22:39:56] <MichiBot> Uh-oh! Va​ur! You beat Forec​aster's previous record of <0 (By 2 hours, 16 minutes and 55 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L481[22:39:57] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 2 hours, 16 minutes and 55 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.00228 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
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L484[22:47:28] *** Vampyre- is now known as Vampyre
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