OCLogs: 2021-02-16.log

Stuff goes here

L1[00:00:29] <Amanda> Also.k think I know why Izaya hates matrix so much now, (other than webshit): it wanted to be the bastard child of Slack and XMPP but with none of the legwork that XMPP went through to avoid locking you in

L2[00:03:06]

<Kristopher38> @Kleadron If i can give you any tips for your gui stuff, I think text will look pretty awful if you try to render it with braille chars (unless you make it really big which will make it kinda impractical), so you should settle for text aligned to screen rows, which means gui elements aligned to screen rows. This also has the benefit of being able to utilize the new buffer API to the fullest, since you can just store window and other

L3[00:03:07]

<Kristopher38> in video buffers

L4[00:05:05]

<Kristopher38> whereas with pixel-accurate gui you wouldn't be able to do that efficiently since you'd have to store the same gui element with different pixel offsets to make the drawing efficient

L5[00:06:16]

<Kristopher38> I mean the buffers do speed up some operations if you just treat them as backbuffers, but there's so much more performance to be gained if you use them smartly

L6[00:10:58]

<Kleadron> well, at least with this program it just makes it all happen at once versus seeing it update from top to bottom

L7[00:11:13]

<Kleadron> but it takes the same amount of time because component call to gpu

L8[00:11:59]

<Kleadron> and then it has the trade-off of openos not going back to the prompt when the program exits

L9[00:12:16]

<Kleadron> it does reduce game lag

L10[00:12:42]

<Kleadron> and turns it into annoying stuttering

L11[00:16:17]

<Kleadron> For my program i want everything to be in pixels, so i'm probably going to use something like the minecraft font at least for testing because it's pretty small

L12[00:16:41]

<Kleadron> Needing text to be aligned to screen rows sounds really ugly

L13[00:17:06]

<ThePiGuy24> Is that just a prerendered image or are you doing that realtime?

L14[00:17:16] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-5-84.dynamic.as20676.net) (Quit: Insert quantum chemistry joke here)

L15[00:17:24]

<Kleadron> the thing i just posted?

L16[00:17:31]

<Kleadron> that's an actively moving sine wave

L17[00:17:34]

<ThePiGuy24> yes

L18[00:17:39]

<ThePiGuy24> nice

L19[00:17:47]

<ThePiGuy24> what framerate you getting with it?

L20[00:18:02] <Amanda> TIL Texas has it's own, independent, power grid, which is why they've gotto do rolling blackouts from a state-wide winter storm.

L21[00:18:04]

<Kleadron> like 1-3 fps

L22[00:18:22]

<ThePiGuy24> hmm

L23[00:18:24]

<Kleadron> i can show you the program in stream if you want

L24[00:18:26] <Amanda> Since natural gas is being diverted from power stations to, you know, heat people's homes directly.

L25[00:18:43]

<ThePiGuy24> aight time to 1-up you because of spite and i cant help myself

L26[00:19:12]

<Kleadron> i was hoping i could use the vram buffers to make it go a lot faster but it seems to be limited to the same call limit stuff

L27[00:19:16]

<Kleadron> maybe i'm doing it wrong

L28[00:19:48]

how are you doing it?

L29[00:21:21]

<Kleadron> I did the normal optimization trick of combining the internal buffer into rows of characters and then drawing those to the screen

L30[00:21:43]

<Kleadron> and then just set it to draw to the buffer and then blit the buffer to the screen

L31[00:22:18]

<Kleadron> is there a way to combine it all into one string and write it all at once or something?

L32[00:22:23]

<MGR> Amanda, yup. US+Canada have Western, Eastern, and Texas

L33[00:22:37]

<MGR> And you can't transfer power between the 3 without converting it to DC first

L34[00:23:36] <Amanda> I was aware the US was atleast partially connected to canada, a nearby nuclear plant sells most of it's capacity to canada.

L35[00:25:25]

<Kristopher38> no

L36[00:25:40]

<Kristopher38> let me explain how buffer call budget costs work though

L37[00:26:43] <Elfi> I know southern Ontario mostly gets its power from hydro and wind--enough that we just call our electric bills hydro

L38[00:27:20]

<Kristopher38> when you write something to the buffer the call budget cost is miniscule, but the buffer is marked as dirty and the cost of blitting it to the screen is proportional to the size of the buffer (even if you blit only a part of it)

L39[00:29:13]

<Kristopher38> but once you blit it once it's marked as clean and there's almost no cost for blitting it again until you modify it again

L40[00:29:27]

<Kleadron> so it's basically as if i was writing to the screen normally

L41[00:29:35]

<Kleadron> with what i'm doing

L42[00:29:49]

<Kristopher38> I'm not sure, you'd have to benchmark it

L43[00:33:36]

<Kleadron> looks about the same

L44[00:34:10]

<Kleadron> maybe a smidge faster

L45[00:34:28]

<Kleadron> i can't really properly buffer this though

L46[00:35:08]

<Kleadron> i don't want an akward character aligned interface

L47[00:36:04]

<Kristopher38> doesn't have to be awkward

L48[00:36:19]

<Kristopher38> MineOS' UI is character-aligned after all

L49[00:36:37]

<Kleadron> MineOS uses actual characters

L50[00:37:03]

<Kristopher38> uh, yeah, that's my point

L51[00:37:27]

<Kristopher38> but feel free to experiment with custom font made with braille chars

L52[00:37:43]

<Kleadron> this system is made for fun and isn't supposed to be practical

L53[00:37:57]

<Kristopher38> I see, have fun then :D

L54[00:38:02]

<Kleadron> i'm just trying to make some sort of interface like this https://tinyurl.com/y4mnzvvj

L55[00:38:55]

<Kristopher38> now that I think about it C64 resolution should be pretty close, if not identical to max resolution achievable with braille chars in OC

L56[00:39:11]

<Kleadron> 320x200 is exactly the max resolution you can get

L57[00:39:23]

<Kleadron> i even imported the image into OC to see how it would look

L58[00:39:33]

<Kleadron> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/362289414287917059/810707014032293888/unknown.png

L59[00:39:56]

<Kristopher38> DAMN that does look nice

L60[00:40:36]

<Kleadron> my main problem is just i can't get all of the pixels onto the screen fast enough

L61[00:41:14]

<Kleadron> I implemented bitmap graphics in my version of computercraft for mc beta and it ran very quickly, main problem i've heard as to why you can't do it is network bandwidth

L62[00:41:18]

<ThePiGuy24> im just loading up the game to see how fast i could push pixels with my lib

L63[00:41:31]

<Kristopher38> the things i'd try is to make static things buffered

L64[00:41:52]

<Kristopher38> so the background and maybe the menu on the top

L65[00:42:10]

<Kristopher38> and redraw only the parts of the screen that changed

L66[00:42:18]

<Kristopher38> and also redraw only the parts of the screen that changed [Edited]

L67[00:42:21]

<Kleadron> it's already optimized to not write rows on the screen if they weren't changed, doesn't require gpu buffers

L68[00:43:00]

<Kleadron> modifying the entire screen causes the most performance cost

L69[00:43:12]

<Kleadron> i'd imagine clicking a button and it having an effect wouldn't be very laggy

L70[00:43:26]

<Kleadron> considering that'd be what, 2-3 rows

L71[00:44:27] ⇦ Quits: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L72[00:44:28]

<Kleadron> i'm going to implement a timer system that makes it so that the system doesn't get bogged down if you drag a window around

L73[00:44:40]

<Kleadron> and then you see it just moving in slow motion

L74[00:45:14]

<Kleadron> i guess i'm already writing to the screen as fast as i can

L75[00:45:49]

<Kristopher38> this is how MineOS performs, so you can get a feel on how it could look https://tinyurl.com/y4gqk5wd

L76[00:45:59]

<Kristopher38> ah shit it's supposed to be a gif

L77[00:46:03]

<Kristopher38> https://camo.githubusercontent.com/c4981d6a869c204529c9cf4c14c5ea8eb7038e50aa7ce21229e67348dbecae54/68747470733a2f2f692e696d6775722e636f6d2f513273583050352e676966

L78[00:46:14]

<Kristopher38> why does it not work

L79[00:46:18]

<Kleadron> it's a png

L80[00:46:42]

<Kleadron> yeah i was previously doing an interface with actual text but i'm bored of that

L81[00:46:42]

<Kristopher38> https://tinyurl.com/yy33npuv

L82[00:46:47]

<Kristopher38> stupid discord, there we go

L83[00:47:23]

<Kleadron> those animations are pretty smooth

L84[00:47:38]

<ThePiGuy24> iirc mineos does some funky stuff

L85[00:48:29]

<Kleadron> for mineos you could actually have your icons and applications in vram buffers

L86[00:49:22]

<Kristopher38> they do pretty advanced double buffering

L87[00:50:33] ⇨ Joins: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50)

L88[00:50:37]

<Kristopher38> the changes are written to the buffer, then compared against what's currently on the screen, and the characters that changed are grouped together based on their fg and bg colors to minimize gpu draw calls

L89[00:55:33]

<ThePiGuy24> this isnt as fast as i remember, but that might be due to all the extra calculations i am doing https://tinyurl.com/y4287ad8

L90[00:55:57] <Michiyo> Anyone here ever used WAILA/HWYLA's API?

L91[01:07:29]

<ThePiGuy24> managed to boost performance a decent amount https://tinyurl.com/y434kg5x

L92[01:08:02]

<ThePiGuy24> 5-6 fps atm

L93[01:08:28]

<ThePiGuy24> nearly all of that is used computing the pattern, not displaying it

L94[01:19:14]

<bad at vijya> oh that's how my wacky terminal thing worked @Kristopher38

L95[01:19:16]

<bad at vijya> almost...

L96[01:19:52]

<bad at vijya> regardless, the VeloxBoot BIOS is coming along

L97[01:22:15] ⇦ Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@2001:16b8:1ef5:b900:42f0:876d:246:7b) (Remote host closed the connection)

L98[01:34:52]

<Kleadron> Downloaded GEOS for fun, i have no idea how to use it https://tinyurl.com/yy5ym2f6

L99[01:35:34]

<Kleadron> i think i'm going to copy the lighter colors from this because they are easier to look at

L100[01:42:53] <Elfi> Ooh, GEOS

L101[01:43:25] <Elfi> Top tips on how to use GEOS:

L102[01:43:27] <Elfi> 1. reboot

L103[01:43:31] <Elfi> 2. load wolfling and play that

L104[01:45:28] <CompanionCube> %tonk

L105[01:45:28] <MichiBot> Golly! CompanionCube! You beat your own previous record of <0 (By 3 hours and 7 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L106[01:45:29] <MichiBot> CompanionCube's new record is 3 hours and 7 seconds! No points gained for stealing from yourself. (Lost out on 0.003)

L107[01:47:14]

<ThePiGuy24> https://tinyurl.com/y4o5gd9d

L108[01:48:39] <Amanda> "John christ"?

L109[01:48:59]

<Kleadron> i put random jibberish into it

L110[01:49:05] <Amanda> John Christ now! Get a free hale mairy!

L111[01:49:09]

<Kleadron> if you notice the geopaint document name is Bobert Jr.

L112[01:50:03]

<Kleadron> putting the massive logo onto this would probably make it run a bit faster if it covered the entire row, because then it wouldn't redraw that part https://tinyurl.com/yxodvapd

L113[01:50:34]

<Kleadron> which is counter-intuitive

L114[01:50:56]

<Kleadron> yes i'm redrawing the logo every frame and it makes no difference in performance

L115[01:51:00]

<Kleadron> which is really weird

L116[01:54:37]

<Kleadron> i'm going to see what happens when i make the call limit really small

L117[02:05:52]

<Kleadron> does nothing

L118[02:06:52]

<ThePiGuy24> are you setting characters individually?

L119[02:07:03]

<Kleadron> no, i optimized that a while ago

L120[02:07:18]

<Kleadron> it combines each row into a string and writes it all at once for each row on the screen

L121[02:07:23]

<Kleadron> only if it's changed

L122[02:07:27]

<ThePiGuy24> im just doing this row by row

L123[02:07:37]

<ThePiGuy24> although i dont check for changes

L124[02:08:04]

<ThePiGuy24> mainly because in my case, checking for changes is actually slower than drawing it

L125[02:09:40]

<Kleadron> it increases the speed on small changes

L126[02:12:21]

<ThePiGuy24> i can push the pixels to the screen as fast as the gpu allows, which for me (with the screen at 160x42) is around 40+ fps

L127[02:12:53] <Amanda> %choose waves or irradiate more

L128[02:12:53] <MichiBot> Amanda: My grandfather always told me that "irradiate more" is the way to go!

L129[02:12:56]

<ThePiGuy24> and it does it so fast that i somehow manage to exceed the power draw limit for this fluxduct

L130[02:13:23]

<Kleadron> that sounds like i must be doing something really wrong for this

L131[02:14:48]

<Kleadron> halving the vertical resolution increased the performance by a large amount

L132[02:15:44]

<Kleadron> runs really fast at t1 resolution

L133[02:16:41]

<Kleadron> the real resolution of a t1 screen if you weren't using braille is 200x128

L134[02:17:14]

<ThePiGuy24> ?

L135[02:17:25]

<ThePiGuy24> not sure what maths you did to get that number

L136[02:17:29]

<Kleadron> the entire area it uses for text characters

L137[02:17:41]

<Kleadron> at gui scale 1

L138[02:18:18]

<ThePiGuy24> that would be 400x256

L139[02:18:39]

<ThePiGuy24> each character is 8x16

L140[02:18:47]

<Kleadron> paint.net tells me otherwise https://tinyurl.com/y5e897av

L141[02:19:06]

<Kleadron> ohhh wait

L142[02:19:33]

<Kleadron> ok no you're right

L143[02:19:52]

<Kleadron> i forgot that the text characters in oc are double resolution of mc font

L144[02:22:51]

<Kleadron> i believe the max usable area with braille for t1 size is 100x64 which is an interesting size

L145[02:23:37]

<Kleadron> that's like graphing calculator size isn't it

L146[02:25:25]

<Kleadron> ti-84 graphing calculator has 320x240 resolution apparently so nowhere near that

L147[02:32:32]

<Kleadron> that's really funny though considering the max resolution you can get normally

L148[02:47:42]

<Kleadron> it does seem like longer strings in gpu.set do take more time to process

L149[02:48:43]

<Kleadron> either that or it's just my application's performance

L150[02:54:58] <Amanda> I think the cost is based off the number size of the write

L151[02:55:27] <Amanda> But I've not looked at that code ever

L152[02:56:26]

<Kleadron> might be worth my time to look at making it redraw smaller modified parts instead of the entire row

L153[03:29:32] ⇦ Quits: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net) (Remote host closed the connection)

L154[03:44:40] * Amanda collapses into a pile of floof around Elfi, starts letting out floating z's

L155[03:44:40] <Amanda> Night nerds

L156[03:49:56] ⇦ Quits: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L157[03:52:56] ⇨ Joins: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50)

L158[04:28:08]

<Kleadron> added interlacing

L159[04:34:50]

<ThePiGuy24> well i guess thats one way to speed up rendering :p

L160[04:37:09] ⇦ Quits: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L161[04:40:18] ⇨ Joins: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50)

L162[04:42:45]

<Kleadron> it makes the sine waves look horrid but it works

L163[04:48:11] <CompanionCube> %tonkout

L164[04:48:11] <MichiBot> Dagnabbit! CompanionCube! You beat your own previous record of 3 hours and 7 seconds (By 2 minutes and 35 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L165[04:48:12] <MichiBot> CompanionCube has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.003 tonk points! plus 0.004 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 0.36179, Position #2 Need 0.12279 more points to pass Vaur!

L166[05:00:35] ⇦ Quits: TPG24 (~ThePiGuy2@37.152.243.164) (Remote host closed the connection)

L167[05:17:40] <Izaya> Amanda: also the part where it's gotten heaps of funding to re-solve problems XMPP solved 20 years ago, which could've been spent improving XMPP clients

L168[05:19:38]

<Kleadron> what's this about?

L169[05:23:19] <Izaya> matrix/element

L170[05:31:12]

<bad at vijya> lmao

L171[05:31:43]

<bad at vijya> velox rom format kinda wacky but it just works™️

L172[05:32:24]

<bad at vijya> tho i mean velox roms are mostly just for driver bundles and shit

L173[05:32:48]

<bad at vijya> maybe i should make part of the veloxboot spec for loading like

L174[05:33:01]

<bad at vijya> .vxb files, which are just velox rom files

L175[05:34:26]

<bad at vijya> anyways, i stealthily hid 16 bits--WAIT

L176[05:34:34]

<bad at vijya> i can do something really wacky

L177[05:35:02]

<Kleadron> what do you define as a driver

L178[05:35:24]

<bad at vijya> well i say "driver" but

L179[05:35:36]

<bad at vijya> basically an executable that extends veloxboot

L180[05:35:46]

<bad at vijya> say a FAT driver or something

L181[05:35:59]

<Kleadron> so it's more like a system extension

L182[05:37:15]

<bad at vijya> yea

L183[05:37:17]

<bad at vijya> i guess

L184[05:45:09]

<Kleadron> i think i would make my own operating system with a full bitmap graphics interface but i'm not qualified to make one

L185[05:45:43]

<Kleadron> plus everyone has OpenOS already and it's easier just to make it an interface for that

L186[05:46:25] ⇦ Quits: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com) (Quit: Leaving.)

L187[05:47:16]

<Kleadron> plus i would need to make literally everything

L188[05:47:25]

<Kleadron> or maybe i could make it for someone else's OS

L189[05:49:50]

<Kleadron> could build it off of PsychOS if i learned how to use it

L190[05:50:16] * Izaya puts up a sign reading "insanity" in the direction of PsychOS

L191[05:50:59]

<Kleadron> wtf PsychOS has a tape service?

L192[05:51:04]

<bad at vijya> hey

L193[05:51:11]

<bad at vijya> you should make Zorya into a graphical OS

L194[05:51:16]

<bad at vijya> it has it's own scheduler

L195[05:51:27]

<bad at vijya> it's basically an OS at this point

L196[05:51:31] <Izaya> yeah it emulates the tape devices on linux

L197[05:51:38] <Izaya> though I'm not 100% it'd work without modification on current stuff

L198[05:51:52] <Izaya> might need to be reorganised to be more like a library

L199[05:51:56]

<bad at vijya> i could give veloxboot a scheduler if i have enough space but

L200[05:51:58]

<bad at vijya> i doubt i will

L201[05:52:01] <Izaya> but anyway, yeah, it registers /dev nodes for each tape drive on the system

L202[05:52:38]

<Kleadron> holy fuck that's a license and a half

L203[05:52:57]

<bad at vijya> what

L204[05:53:22]

<Kleadron> the psychos license is pretty big compared to what i usually read

L205[05:53:28]

<Kleadron> Mozilla Public License Version 2.0

L206[05:53:39] <Izaya> it's similar to the MIT license in practice

L207[05:54:07]

<bad at vijya> i hear it summed up as "GPL but without the linking part"

L208[05:54:27] <Izaya> https://choosealicense.com/licenses/mpl-2.0/

L209[05:55:10] <Izaya> that's not inaccurate either

L210[05:55:30] <Izaya> it's a less stronk GPL really

L211[05:56:21]

<bad at vijya> veloxboot will be under the MPL license B)

L212[05:57:40] <Izaya> (additionally, there was definitely a reason I chose the MPLv2 over MIT or GPL but I don't remember it now)

L213[05:58:29]

<Kleadron> you must use the same license?

L214[05:58:41] <Izaya> on a per-file basis

L215[05:58:59]

<Kleadron> i meant is that a reason you chose it

L216[05:59:25] <Izaya> It's probably part of it.

L217[05:59:46] <Izaya> Also acceptable is GPL 2.0, 2.1, 3.0 or AGPL

L218[06:02:09] <Izaya> I've been meaning to use the AGPL more

L219[06:02:28] <Izaya> and not just because Google hates it

L220[06:04:08]

<Kleadron> sounds annoying

L221[06:04:31]

<bad at vijya> lmao

L222[06:04:36] <Izaya> it seems like the ideal license for network services

L223[06:04:37] <CompanionCube> AGPL is only useful for servers tho

L224[06:06:10]

<bad at vijya> the trailer header file name of velox rom is beautiful since i want to easily tell the end of an archive

L225[06:06:27]

<bad at vijya> "TRTBT.DQI"

L226[06:06:37] <Izaya> https://opensource.google/docs/using/agpl-policy/

L227[06:10:13] <Izaya> https://bananachips.club/@nev/105739295484680629

L228[06:11:08]

<Kleadron> oh my god

L229[06:14:35] <Izaya> > VLC is getting a braindamaged hamburger menu interface

L230[06:14:41] <Izaya> good thing I use mpv nowadays I guess

L231[06:15:44]

<Kleadron> good thing i use windows media player

L232[06:16:33]

<Kleadron> :^)

L233[06:17:20]

<Kleadron> it sounds weird but i literally only ever use windows media player on my main pc at least

L234[06:17:32]

<Kleadron> because the k-lite codec pack adds all the stuff i need

L235[06:17:50]

<Kleadron> or if i need some feature from vlc

L236[06:18:17] <Izaya> used VLC when I was on windows but I only end up using mpv now

L237[06:18:21] <Izaya> well, mpv and mpd

L238[06:21:16]

<Kleadron> would it be bad to design an OC OS around not needing requires like CraftOS in CC

L239[06:22:15]

<Kleadron> where stuff like term and filesystem are in the global space

L240[06:23:23]

<Kleadron> i mean maybe it as an extremely miniscule amount of space savings because no need for "local term = require("terminal")"

L241[06:23:43]

<bad at vijya> https://tinyurl.com/y67ukex7

L242[06:23:53] <Izaya> tape VELX to it, have the requires in the executable container

L243[06:24:06]

<bad at vijya> tape velx to everything

L244[06:24:13]

<bad at vijya> i have yet to release the wacky v2 spec

L245[06:25:22]

<bad at vijya> also known as

L246[06:25:30]

<Kleadron> i was looking at my funny "Base Management and Control System" i made back in 2020 and it defines stuff in global space because it can

L247[06:25:33]

<bad at vijya> that's what v2 is for

L248[06:26:19]

<bad at vijya> anyways, it's doubtful i'll fit veloxboot into 4k, but probably could do it in 8k

L249[06:26:23] <Izaya> big brain is writing your own OS so you can decide what gets global namespace space

L250[06:26:52]

<Kleadron> the shell is designed as an event listener in this

L251[06:27:27]

<Kleadron> `listen(shellUpdate)`

L252[06:29:28]

<bad at vijya> lmao

L253[06:29:30]

<bad at vijya> as i thought

L254[06:29:53]

<bad at vijya> not compressing the executables in the veloxboot initramfs actually makes it smaller

L255[06:30:02]

<Kleadron> gg

L256[06:30:17]

<bad at vijya> since the whole thing gets compressed for the bios.bin file

L257[06:30:26]

<Kleadron> ah yes, i have everything printed at the bottom first because it was simpler to do https://tinyurl.com/y62y6sre

L258[06:30:57] <Izaya> I like the »

L259[06:31:48]

<Kleadron> i think i designed for the texture font which is codepage 437 compatible

L260[06:32:04]

<Kleadron> I would probably do a ] now but that's fine to stay

L261[06:32:49] <Izaya> still need to try to convert SGI Screen to an OC-compatible format

L262[06:32:54]

@Kleadron original OpenOS was written like that (everything global)

L263[06:33:13]

<Kleadron> I wonder why it changed then

L264[06:33:28]

<Kleadron> Izaya: what's SGI Ccreen?

L265[06:33:31]

<Kleadron> Screen*

L266[06:33:40]

<bad at vijya> because bugs @Kleadron

L267[06:34:04]

And because standards Lua compliance

L268[06:34:12]

Standard *

L269[06:34:21]

<Kleadron> haha funny lua standards

L270[06:34:25]

<Kleadron> too bad

L271[06:34:44] <Izaya> Kleadron: The best bitmap font

L272[06:35:35] <Izaya> https://imgur.com/YZWWTZ1.png https://imgur.com/ft2lyNS.png

L273[06:35:36]

<Kleadron> ooh that would be a good font to use for the bitmap interface

L274[06:35:51] <Izaya> two examples for your consideration

L275[06:37:21]

<Kleadron> i'll probably just rip minecraft's font for testing though because that's already setup in a useful format

L276[06:37:56]

<bad at vijya> veloxboot is pretty wacky, tho

L277[06:38:10]

<bad at vijya> made my own minimal character set so i could fit file metadata into 7 bytes

L278[06:38:24]

<bad at vijya> 'course, you only have 5.3 filenames

L279[06:38:34]

<bad at vijya> but why would you need more than 5.3 for just

L280[06:38:36]

<bad at vijya> loading drivers

L281[06:38:39]

<bad at vijya> lmao

L282[06:38:40]

<Ariri> %tell Inari I would like to announce that I am applying to be a Hololive talent. My skills include: speed https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/lksy1b/amelia_watson_wins_westminster_agility/

L283[06:38:41] <MichiBot> Ariri: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.

L284[06:39:14]

<Kleadron> >only 5.3 filenames

L285[06:39:14]

<Kleadron> :stare:

L286[06:39:25]

<bad at vijya> what

L287[06:39:36]

<bad at vijya> why do you need more than that

L288[06:39:52]

<bad at vijya> most things will fit in that

L289[06:40:04]

<Kleadron> you clearly need it for this

L290[06:40:16]

<bad at vijya> yeah but this is for extension bundles

L291[06:40:20]

<bad at vijya> lmao

L292[06:40:30]

<Kleadron> what if i want to name my extension bundle that

L293[06:40:32]

<Kleadron> you don't know

L294[06:40:46]

<bad at vijya> the name of the extension bundle can be anything

L295[06:40:50]

Plus that way file names got into an even 8 bytes

L296[06:41:07]

<bad at vijya> @i develop things except the full metadata is 7 bytes

L297[06:41:27]

Ouch

L298[06:41:41]

<bad at vijya> tl;dr you're limited to a character set `"\0ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ1234567890~!?"`, as it is in the sauce code

L299[06:41:45]

<Kleadron> do you lop off the end bit of each character or something

L300[06:41:55]

<bad at vijya> >only one bit

L301[06:42:03]

<bad at vijya> ha

L302[06:42:10]

<bad at vijya> i lopped off 3 bits

L303[06:42:13]

<bad at vijya> well not really

L304[06:42:14]

<bad at vijya> but

L305[06:42:21]

<bad at vijya> five bit characters

L306[06:42:29]

<Kleadron> hmm

L307[06:42:33]

>32 characters

L308[06:43:22]

<bad at vijya> hey, you don't need too many characters for this wackiness

L309[06:43:29]

<bad at vijya> iirc that's--wait FUCK

L310[06:43:39]

<bad at vijya> i just realized that's more than 32 characters

L311[06:43:49]

<bad at vijya> late night deving be like

L312[06:44:03]

<Kleadron> you have a second zero in there?

L313[06:44:09]

<Kleadron> oh wait

L314[06:44:17]

<Kleadron> wait no that doesn't make sense

L315[06:44:27]

<bad at vijya> null

L316[06:44:31]

<bad at vijya> null is the first character

L317[06:44:45]

<Kleadron> this is not a character and your face is a null

L318[06:46:49]

<Kleadron> lmao i defined the addresses of the components in the kernel file for the OS i made

L319[06:48:12]

<Kleadron> this doesn't even support anything other than the alphabet and numbers for input

L320[06:52:34]

<bad at vijya> hm?

L321[06:55:07]

<Kleadron> a-z and 0-9

L322[06:55:13]

<Kleadron> that's it

L323[06:55:20]

<Kleadron> and space

L324[06:55:45]

<bad at vijya> wack

L325[06:59:19]

<bad at vijya> there's a special character in the character set now

L326[06:59:20]

<bad at vijya> well, two

L327[06:59:27]

<bad at vijya> lowercase x and %

L328[06:59:56]

<bad at vijya> lowercase x is basically just for when you have a fuckton of extensions you need to load and don't want name collision issues

L329[07:51:53]

<Kleadron> https://tinyurl.com/y6bx6efx

L330[07:52:58]

<Kleadron> personally i like the window style

L331[07:54:18]

<bad at vijya> same

L332[07:54:41]

<bad at vijya> if i was to make a UI in OC, that's how i'd do it

L333[07:54:56]

<bad at vijya> well, something like it

L334[07:55:22]

<Kleadron> first thing on my mind was that it needs to be as simple as possible so it doesn't take up lots of space

L335[07:55:27]

<bad at vijya> anyways, i think my auto asset bundler works https://tinyurl.com/yxs6udu9

L336[07:55:48]

<Kleadron> are you sure about that

L337[07:56:36]

<bad at vijya> yea https://tinyurl.com/y6rhvlvf

L338[07:56:49]

<bad at vijya> i did fuck up a bit with the mapping generator but w/e

L339[07:59:08]

<Kleadron> I don't really know much about interface design but i wanted this to be "easy to use"

L340[07:59:23]

<Kleadron> not too easy but it would make sense to people jumping into it

L341[07:59:48]

<Kleadron> people with normal experience with windows or linux, or messed with old operating systems in an emulator

L342[08:02:23]

<Kleadron> for example (not saying KittenOS is bad by any means) but i have no clue how KittenOS NEO works if i just opened it up

L343[08:02:32]

<Kleadron> for example (not saying KittenOS is bad by any means) i have no clue how KittenOS NEO works if i just opened it up [Edited]

L344[08:03:09]

<Kleadron> i think it uses keyboard shortcuts too and i wouldn't know any of those

L345[08:08:03]

<bad at vijya> heh https://tinyurl.com/y2vvrhx8

L346[08:08:30]

<Kleadron> 3 am

L347[08:08:43]

<bad at vijya> yea, and?

L348[08:09:07]

<Kleadron> monkey see banana monkey eat banana @bad at vijya

L349[08:09:15]

<bad at vijya> ????

L350[08:09:20]

<Kleadron> these are 3 am words

L351[08:09:51]

<bad at vijya> ok

L352[08:09:53]

<bad at vijya> anyways

L353[08:10:46]

<Kleadron> i need to make that font renderer

L354[08:11:01]

<Kleadron> ok this is bad https://tinyurl.com/y5t6cufj

L355[08:11:30]

<bad at vijya> nice

L356[08:11:49]

<bad at vijya> i have a neat thing now

L357[08:14:44]

<bad at vijya> anyways, basically, difference between a .vxe and a .vxx is that a .vxx is executed in the global space and can create globals

L358[08:15:11]

<bad at vijya> well

L359[08:15:12]

<bad at vijya> sorta

L360[08:15:14]

<bad at vijya> but w/e

L361[08:18:48]

<Kleadron> something is fucky with my bitmap reader https://tinyurl.com/y6gpcutu

L362[08:19:31]

<bad at vijya> wack

L363[08:19:38]

<Kleadron> wait no

L364[08:19:41]

<Kleadron> it's the interlacing

L365[08:19:42]

<Kleadron> fuck

L366[08:20:17]

<Kleadron> there we go, nothing was wrong https://tinyurl.com/y6hpefhm

L367[08:20:24]

<Kleadron> this font is a lot larger than i thought

L368[08:20:33]

<Forecaster> %tonk

L369[08:20:35] <MichiBot> Gadsbudlikins! Forecaster! You beat CompanionCube's previous record of <0 (By 3 hours, 32 minutes and 22 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L370[08:20:36] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 3 hours, 32 minutes and 22 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.00354 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #3. Need 0.07836 more points to pass CompanionCube!

L371[08:22:55]

<Kleadron> of course if i actually account for the size of the character the string will be smaller

L372[08:23:02]

<Kleadron> text i mean

L373[08:26:45]

<Kleadron> inner image drawing works https://tinyurl.com/y5m7zdul

L374[08:27:00]

<Kleadron> i can draw a smaller rectangle of pixels from an image

L375[08:33:01]

<SnailDOS> o

L376[08:37:58] <Izaya> oh I missed breaking economies on the 14th

L377[08:38:49] <Izaya> Kleadron: https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-NmjDk7UXkmI/YCmjChq41_I/AAAAAAAACFQ/pnZw0AUB0Jok6nPaNEqXJ4_ha6okf7kIACLcBGAsYHQ/s1024/screen1.png

L378[08:41:12]

<Kleadron> ah yea

L379[08:41:24]

<Kleadron> text works? https://tinyurl.com/yyj2mqjr

L380[08:42:30] <Izaya> H e l l o !

L381[08:42:36] <Izaya> kerning time

L382[08:44:01]

<Kleadron> yeah lol

L383[08:46:54]

<Kleadron> you can see how i incorrectly adjusted the character width here https://tinyurl.com/y4yh4y9g

L384[08:47:18] <Izaya> anyway yeah

L385[08:47:23] <Izaya> if you want to save screen real-estate

L386[08:47:27]

<Kleadron> it's not kerning but it looks much better https://tinyurl.com/yyu4qzod

L387[08:47:32] <Izaya> doesn't get much better than BeOS

L388[08:51:20] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (~Vexatos@port-92-192-5-84.dynamic.as20676.net)

L389[08:51:20] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos

L390[08:54:54]

<Kleadron> halving the vertical height makes it faster, that's doesn't sound like it should

L391[08:55:05]

<Kleadron> i need to fix something

L392[09:01:54]

<Kodos> Do any of you play Stationeers regularly?

L393[09:07:28]

<Forecaster> does once a year count as regularly?

L394[09:20:21] ⇦ Quits: flappy (~flappy@88-113-155-26.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L395[09:38:34] ⇦ Quits: hnOsmium0001 (uid453710@id-453710.stonehaven.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)

L396[09:47:45]

<Kleadron> so i found something interesting, OC can render all unicode characters right

L397[09:48:04]

<Kleadron> at least the majority

L398[09:48:17]

<Kleadron> apparently unicode characters can range from 1-6 bytes

L399[09:48:33] ⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@mue-88-130-51-200.dsl.tropolys.de)

L400[09:48:34]

<Kleadron> braille character offset starts at 10240 decimal

L401[09:49:16]

<Kleadron> so that means that braille characters would take 2 bytes or more supporting 256 different states of the character

L402[09:50:05]

<Kleadron> assuming monochrome, for every braille character on screen, which can have 8 "pixels", braille characters use more memory than just using pixels

L403[09:50:44]

<Kleadron> if they use 2 bytes per character you could implement 2 bit color depth and it would be about the same amount of memory used

L404[09:51:50] ⇦ Quits: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)

L405[09:52:28] <fingercomp> the font OC uses doesn't cover even a quarter of all characters, even you only consider the BMP

L406[09:52:50] <fingercomp> (though still more than CC's)

L407[09:53:09] <fingercomp> since OC uses UTF-8 encoding for strings, each braille character would take 3 bytes

L408[09:54:34]

<Kleadron> So it's even bigger

L409[09:54:54] ⇨ Joins: lord| (~ba7888b72@66.109.211.50)

L410[09:57:15]

<Kleadron> I think i remember a reason for bitmaps not being in OC was because of bandwidth, i can't possibly imagine that in this scenario it would be more expensive to ship compressed packets containing modified parts of the screen through the network than the with the text. This only really applies to very limited color bitmaps though

L411[09:57:41]

<Kleadron> and this doesn't take into account the processing needed to turn it into a texture minecraft can use

L412[10:04:11] <fingercomp> oh, apparently OC uses chars (16-bit integers) internally to store screen buffer data, so 2 bytes is the actual size

L413[10:07:25]

<Kleadron> someone should make that video card mod, i would try but i've already got a project in my hands

L414[10:07:47]

<Forecaster> video card mod?

L415[10:07:56]

<Kleadron> bitmap screen

L416[10:08:04]

<Forecaster> ah

L417[10:08:26]

<Forecaster> just start another project! you can never have too many!

L418[10:08:29]

<Forecaster> cries

L419[10:10:46]

<Kleadron> actually my other excluse is that i'm scared of scala

L420[10:10:54]

<Kleadron> excuse*

L421[10:13:11] <SquidDev> I wonder what the rate limits would have to be for that - I imagine quite high to avoid saturating the GPU and network bandwidth :/.

L422[10:14:34]

<Forecaster> would it have to be scala?

L423[10:17:36]

<Kleadron> i would need to look at the oc code to see how anything works

L424[10:23:18]

<Kleadron> SquidDev: as long as you get an amount of the screen modified before the next update it would probably be fine

L425[10:23:44]

<Kleadron> not sending every modified pixel for example

L426[10:26:53]

<Kleadron> maybe it would be about 100-300 call limit to gpu for t3 screen to modify bitmap, but that might be fairly limited

L427[10:27:08]

<Kleadron> or a lot

L428[10:29:31] <SquidDev> I guess if you had a virtual-buffer system like OC dev-builds do, it might be manageable. People can apply updates in the background and show them in one go.

L429[10:41:17] <Amanda> Hey, brain: what the fuck

L430[10:41:27] <Amanda> Why am I awake?

L431[10:42:58] * Amanda tucks back in around Elfi, tries to find some more tireds

L432[10:55:06]

<Forecaster> https://tinyurl.com/y6lqt6tv

L433[10:56:25]

<Dabraleli> Nice progress

L434[10:56:28]

<Forecaster> a little snappier than the tooltip

L435[11:05:45]

<EderV> Is this editor developed in lua in opencomputers? Or did you modified the OS?

L436[11:06:49]

<Dabraleli> That is site on JS

L437[11:06:56]

<Dabraleli> This is site on JS [Edited]

L438[11:07:25]

<Dabraleli> https://towerofawesome.org/oc_interface_designer/

L439[11:11:54] <Amanda> Well, I guess I'm awake now

L440[11:13:52]

<Forecaster> @EderV what Dabraleli said

L441[12:17:39] ⇨ Joins: t20kdc (~20kdc@cpc139384-aztw33-2-0-cust220.18-1.cable.virginm.net)

L442[12:22:16]

<SnailDOS> h

L443[12:39:34] ⇦ Quits: DBotThePony (~Thunderbi@31.220.170.28) (Ping timeout: 198 seconds)

L444[12:49:16]

<Vaur> %tonk

L445[12:49:18] <MichiBot> Waesucks! Vaur! You beat Forecaster's previous record of 3 hours, 32 minutes and 22 seconds (By 56 minutes and 21 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L446[12:49:19] <MichiBot> Vaur's new record is 4 hours, 28 minutes and 43 seconds! Vaur also gained 0.00376 (0.00094 x 4) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.

L447[12:54:21] <Amanda> %tell Inari why'd you steal my tireds again! Stinky rude fox!

L448[12:54:22] <MichiBot> Amanda: Inari will be notified of this message when next seen.

L449[13:21:03] <Amanda> %choose avorion or code

L450[13:21:03] <MichiBot> Amanda: Haven't you always gone with "avorion"? Hm, maybe not.

L451[13:23:38] <Amanda> %choose desk or bed

L452[13:23:38] <MichiBot> Amanda: Is it a bird?! Is it a plane?! No! It's "bed"!

L453[13:29:14] <t20kdc> to @Kleadron#3457 : Keep in mind that for the usual case of text or TUIs, the way OC does things now works fine. In addition, the bandwidth of OC bitmapped displays is likely kept at bay by the various speed limits on OC GPUs.

L454[13:30:52] <t20kdc> ...sorry, excuse me while I try that again, uh... <@372548128055885836>

L455[13:38:46] <CompanionCube> %tonk

L456[13:38:47] <MichiBot> I'm sorry CompanionCube, you were not able to beat Vaur's record of 4 hours, 28 minutes and 43 seconds this time. 49 minutes and 29 seconds were wasted! Missed by 3 hours, 39 minutes and 13 seconds!

L457[13:39:33] <Amanda> %remindme 55m stop Sally from salvaging

L458[13:39:33] <MichiBot> I'll remind you about "stop Sally from salvaging" at 02/16/2021 02:34:33 PM

L459[13:56:24] <Lizzy> Good news everyone! M$ has blocked my mail server again so if you have a hotmail.com, outlook.com or other M$ provided/hosted address, you wont be getting any emails from the forum for a bit

L460[13:59:23] <Amanda> hooray!

L461[14:03:15] <bauen1> won't that be a net-improvement for the forum /s

L462[14:30:17]

<Shuudoushi> Alabama right now https://youtu.be/awa87mmCKpM

L463[14:30:18] <MichiBot> The F*ck Is This? (Inspired By A Tumblr Post ORIGINAL) | length: 1m 12s | Likes: 168,820 Dislikes: 1,743 Views: 4,841,611 | by LordJazor | Published On 16/7/2013

L464[14:34:33] <MichiBot> Amanda REMINDER: stop Sally from salvaging

L465[14:49:54]

<Shuudoushi> Lizzy: use proton mail as a back up?

L466[14:55:39]

<Dabraleli> Protonmail banned in Russia for example by goverment

L467[14:55:50]

<Dabraleli> Protonmail banned by goverment in Russia for example [Edited]

L468[14:56:50] <Lizzy> @Shuudoushi I'd prefer to not have my mail server blocked in the first place

L469[14:57:10] <Lizzy> especially when they don't give a fucking reason

L470[14:57:17] <Lizzy> just "nah, you're blocked, go away"

L471[15:07:45] <Vexatos> welcome to email

L472[15:07:48] <Vexatos> it's decentralised*

L473[15:09:09] <Lizzy> also, another thing that is related to MS https://files.lizzian.uk/ivylily/210216_c4e929cbb18.png found this on one of their help pages, which explains why all my emails in my outlook inbox have failed DKIM

L474[15:22:58]

<Shuudoushi> Lizzy: i agree, but a backup service is always good

L475[15:24:58] <SquidDev> Microsoft have a whole system for web admins, but last time I checked the form to get yourself unblocked just threw an internal error.

L476[15:31:16]

<Shuudoushi> Sounds like microsoft

L477[15:33:43] <Izaya> at least a little better than google

L478[15:34:43]

<Shuudoushi> Every sysadmins worst enemy, yet greatest friend. Redundant systems.

L479[15:36:15]

<Shuudoushi> Oh, and a "fuck it, nuke everything' button

L480[15:37:19] ⇨ Joins: ThePiGuy24 (~ThePiGuy2@37.152.243.164)

L481[15:42:34] <Izaya> google: this is how it is. you can appeal, but our CADT discovered it's cheaper to tape a cadaver's hand to the "no" button than review things

L482[15:43:48] <Izaya> history question: where did tooltips come from

L483[15:57:23] <Amanda> Izaya: did you see this, which I shared the other day? https://bafybeiaqmtnkyydv3j7lbbhvs6gqhs4uetlcitwyk3lbrtksqelc25sy4i.ipfs.dweb.link/

L484[15:57:49] <Amanda> ( Though back the it was a NextCloud link, co-admin's got his homelab off due to the texas power clusterfuck )

L485[16:07:05] <Izaya> Amanda: hee

L486[16:16:12]

remind me where i can find this?

L487[16:19:47] <Izaya> find what

L488[16:19:51] <dequbed> Izaya: I'd say probably M$ software around the end of DOS when they had to teach a whole generation of computer users what a graphical interface is and how it works.

L489[16:20:52] <Izaya> They borrowed the rest of Windows, why not that too?

L490[16:21:49] <dequbed> Uh I'm pretty sure "Use only icons because they use less space" is something Windows 95 made mainstream.

L491[16:22:12] <dequbed> Last I checked Mac OS was still using clickable text but graphically back then.

L492[16:22:22] <Izaya> RISC OS wants a word.

L493[16:22:31] <dequbed> Sorry, rounding errors don't count.

L494[16:22:54]

shots fired

L495[16:23:39] <Izaya> Can't say that when 99% of the interface was introduced to Microsoft by an ex-Acorn programmer

L496[16:24:59] <Izaya> Taskbar? RISC OS. Start menu? RISC OS. Icon-centric? RISC OS.

L497[16:25:28] <Vexatos> good old acorn risc machine

L498[16:26:54] ⇨ Joins: Inari (~Pinkishu@p4fe7efd6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

L499[16:28:07] <dequbed> Izaya: Still, Windows made that mainstream :p In the end everybody stole graphics from Xerox so .. :p

L500[16:28:27] <Izaya> and yet I still have my question

L501[16:28:43] <Izaya> where did windows lift them from?

L502[16:29:33] <Izaya> tooltips, that is

L503[16:29:35] <dequbed> There's a very good chance given just how many people at M$ back then were tasked with making the new GUI understandable to old users that they came up with the idea independently, even if somebody else had the same idea first. Inventing stuff is like that.

L504[16:30:30] <dequbed> I know, Microsoft bad but they did build a lot of software, did a lot of research and very much came up with stuff themselves.

L505[16:30:50] <Izaya> don't get me wrong

L506[16:31:07] <Izaya> MS did a lot of research and refinement and iteration

L507[16:31:18] <Izaya> especially with W95

L508[16:32:04] <Izaya> but they did lift almost everything else I've looked at

L509[16:32:17] <dequbed> Did they?

L510[16:32:51] <dequbed> The Buran and Space Shuttle are very very similar but were developed independently under strong military secrecy. Maybe just having the same goal gives rise to the same solution.;

L511[16:33:11] <Izaya> like I said, they "borrowed" most of the RISC OS interface by way of a shared developer

L512[16:33:39] <Izaya> the windows NT internals are an iteration on DEC mainframe software

L513[16:34:09] <dequbed> And then potentially iterated on that, had usability testing and found that people would hover their cursor over icons when thinking what they do and if that is the right button so they came up with tooltips, maybe unrelated to other implementations.

L514[16:34:23] <Izaya> that is a possibility

L515[16:34:32] <dequbed> I'm not saying they definitely did but I'm also against just assuming they must have swiped that too :P

L516[16:34:51] <Izaya> and I'll have to review that paper on W95 interface design

L517[16:35:37] <dequbed> And saying NT is just an interation of DEC is like saying Linux is just an iteration of UNIX. Not *technically* wrong, but basically wrong.

L518[16:36:45] <Izaya> there's a lot different

L519[16:37:23] <Izaya> but when you hire the designer of their stuff and build something similar you can't say it's 100% new, can you?

L520[16:38:50] <dequbed> No, but I didn't do that either. Windows/Microsoft based a lot of their stuff on what worked for other OS/Companies. But so did every other OS.

L521[16:41:00] <dequbed> But if your question is "Where did tooltips come from" in 2021 then saying W95 is the main reason that nowadays just about everything has tooltips has quite some merit. Because it had tooltips and it had the userbase to give them visibility. Are they they first ones ever to have that idea? Maybe but probably not. Did they have the idea independently of the first guy/gal? Likely.

L522[16:41:26] <Inari> nep

L523[16:41:43] <Inari> Ariri: haha

L524[16:41:52] <Inari> Amanda: I need them for my fur

L525[16:48:48] <Izaya> my question was the origins and not the popularisation >.>

L526[16:50:10] <dequbed> In that case probably some graphical research OS by somebody, probably lost to history because it was a one-off research os.

L527[16:50:11] <Michiyo> I created tooltips in my personal Operating System Doors '92

L528[16:50:29] <Michiyo> I then licensed them to Microsoft for 2 shillings.

L529[16:50:38] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)

L530[16:54:19] * Izaya adds to notes

L531[17:01:21] * Inari notes to add

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L533[17:30:35]

<Ariri> Izaya: re: jazz, https://www.reddit.com/r/Hololive/comments/ll799o/amoelia_jazz_dreamer/

L534[17:31:10]

<Ariri> cc Inari for [more] hololive nonsense

L535[17:45:43] <Inari> will cc you

L536[17:47:01] <Inari> @Ariri seeing that part with the Ina kabedon just makes me want VR Boyfriend Kabedon stuff owo

L537[17:48:43] <CompanionCube> Izaya: wikipedia says nothing about origin but the word was coined for MS software

L538[17:49:23] <Inari> what word

L539[17:49:26] <Michiyo> This is correct, I didn't have a name for them in Doors '92, MS Marketing and I actually worked on it for a while.

L540[17:49:34] <Michiyo> 'Tool Tips'

L541[17:50:45] <Michiyo> Who knew that a 7 year old could make something so innovative.

L542[17:50:50] <Michiyo> Anyway.

L543[17:52:51] <Ariri> Inari, relatable, lol. The kabedon animation is so good too

L544[17:58:23] <Inari> it is

L545[18:00:21] <Izaya> ... it's just after the 14th don't give me ideas

L546[18:02:19] <Ariri> ?

L547[18:08:45] <CompanionCube> %tonk

L548[18:08:46] <MichiBot> Yippee! CompanionCube! You beat Vaur's previous record of 4 hours, 28 minutes and 43 seconds (By 1 minute and 15 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L549[18:08:47] <MichiBot> CompanionCube's new record is 4 hours, 29 minutes and 59 seconds! CompanionCube also gained 0.0001 (0.00002 x 5) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #2. Need 0.12645 more points to pass Vaur!

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L551[18:13:04]

<Forecaster> @i develop things https://towerofawesome.org/oc_interface_designer

L552[18:13:09]

ty

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L557[20:03:42]

<bad at vijya> i should make a fancy lightweight desktop env for OC

L558[20:03:44]

<bad at vijya> well

L559[20:03:52]

<bad at vijya> one that i would use in OC

L560[20:04:11]

<bad at vijya> sp

L561[20:04:13]

<bad at vijya> *so

L562[20:04:18]

<bad at vijya> monochrome only

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L565[22:15:37]

<Myros> Hi, here it says i should use w+ to override a file, opencomputer does not seem to like it: https://tinyurl.com/y7fosgdd

L566[22:16:10]

<Myros> w[b] does not seem to work ether

L567[22:16:45]

<Forecaster> you didn't literally put `w[b]` did you

L568[22:16:50]

<Forecaster> it's `wb`

L569[22:16:50]

<Myros> i did

L570[22:16:56]

<Myros> ah ok thx

L571[22:17:01]

<Forecaster> the brackets indicate the b is optional

L572[22:17:09]

<Myros> aaaah regex, thx

L573[22:17:16]

<Forecaster> ie you can have `w` or `wb`

L574[22:17:28]

<Forecaster> it's not regex, it's just documentation syntax

L575[22:21:58] <Amanda> %choose Avorion or continue trying to find where that train went.

L576[22:21:59] <MichiBot> Amanda: I received a telegram from a long lost relative that only read "continue trying to find where that train went". Weird.

L577[22:22:29] <Amanda> D: but I don't wantto find Uncle Racist, who went missingona train!

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L580[22:43:04] ⇨ Joins: Saphire (saphire@lunar.exchange)

L581[22:46:28] <CompanionCube> %tonkout

L582[22:46:28] <MichiBot> Geez! CompanionCube! You beat your own previous record of 4 hours, 29 minutes and 59 seconds (By 7 minutes and 43 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L583[22:46:29] <MichiBot> CompanionCube has tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.004 tonk points! plus 0.006 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score: 0.37189, Position #2 Need 0.11645 more points to pass Vaur!

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L586[23:06:25] ⇨ Joins: flappy (~flappy@88-113-155-26.elisa-laajakaista.fi)

L587[23:06:52]

<Kleadron> when will there be a minecraft steve vtuber

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L590[23:36:46] zsh sets mode: +v on Kilobyte

L591[23:37:11]

<Myros> can robots or drones use bows?

L592[23:37:42]

<Myros> i tried robot.use(), but i get a false back

L593[23:37:46]

<Kristopher38> robots yes

L594[23:37:50]

<Kristopher38> drones no

L595[23:38:12]

<Kristopher38> you need to specify optional args for bow use

L596[23:38:19]

<Myros> oh

L597[23:38:24]

<Myros> duration?

L598[23:38:26]

<Kristopher38> check the wiki

L599[23:38:33]

<Kristopher38> yeah i think so

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L601[23:39:10] <Thisguy_> Hello, provided I don't have to be registered in order to chat

L602[23:39:44] <CompanionCube> %hello

L603[23:39:45] <MichiBot> CompanionCube: Hello! Welcome to #oc! The one and only opencomputers channel! Please ask your questions directly (dont ask to ask) and provide error/code examples! (Use pastebin.com if theyre more than one line!) Dont mind the random conversation you might have walked into.

L604[23:41:55] <Thisguy_> Is there an oppm package or downloadable software for OC I can use to do remote code execution on an ingame network without, like, some Internet card nonsense? I've noticed a lot of the remoting software is actual internet enabled telnet clients and the like but I don't need something as cool as that lol

L605[23:43:05]

there's psh

L606[23:43:08] <Michiyo> psh is payo's 'OpenOS remote shell and remote copy utilities. Adds psh and pcp to your PATH. Use rc to start pshd

L607[23:43:08] <Michiyo> '

L608[23:43:11]

which is a bit like ssh

L609[23:45:02] <Thisguy_> Probably exactly what I needed. I regret starting the irc client on a computer I'm trying to test this with

L610[23:45:41] <Michiyo> heh, join us on a regular IRC client, or discord?

L611[23:46:42] ⇦ Quits: Thisguy_ (~thisguy_@69.197.177.10) (Quit: Thisguy_)

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L613[23:47:04] <Thisguy_> Good idea

L614[23:47:54] <Michiyo> Thisguy_++

L615[23:47:55] <MichiBot> Michiyo: Thisguy_ now has 1 points

L616[23:48:03] <Michiyo> 1 points. Great job me.

L617[23:48:12]

Michiyo++

L618[23:48:18]

wait does that not work from discord

L619[23:48:27] <Michiyo> huh, I guess not.

L620[23:48:38] <Ariri> I thought it did...

L621[23:48:42] <Michiyo> I think the whole module ignores Discord

L622[23:49:05] <Ariri> ~~as it should~~

L623[23:49:49]

<bad at vijya> https://tinyurl.com/yar3oe42

L624[23:49:58]

<bad at vijya> spamraams out

L625[23:50:24]

<ThePiGuy24> needs more

L626[23:53:45]

<bad at vijya> done https://tinyurl.com/y8nkjrjw

L627[23:54:23]

<ThePiGuy24> still not nough

L628[23:54:27]

<ThePiGuy24> *enough

L629[23:57:46] <Thisguy_> Does psh not work with minitel?

L630[23:58:07]

<bad at vijya> it won't take off now

L631[23:58:08]

<bad at vijya> :(

L632[23:58:47] <CompanionCube> probably not

L633[23:59:36]

<ThePiGuy24> add more turbines