L1[00:01:38] <Inari> %pet Amanda
L2[00:01:38] <MichiBot> Inari is petting
Amanda with QWACKEN. Amanda regains 1d4 => 1 hit points!
L3[00:07:35] ⇦
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L4[00:22:38] 
<SizableShrimp> @Kristopher38 so if I look
in the source code of a mod and see x slot being accessed, I should
shift it up 1 for OC?
<SizableShrimp> @Kristopher38 so if I look
in the source code of a mod and see x slot being accessed, I should
shift it up 1 for OC?L5[00:23:00] <SizableShrimp> if we are thinking of java
0-based indiced lists then it's slots 23, 24, and 25
<SizableShrimp> if we are thinking of java
0-based indiced lists then it's slots 23, 24, and 25L6[00:23:05] <SizableShrimp> And I want to access them
in oc
<SizableShrimp> And I want to access them
in ocL7[00:26:06] <Kristopher38> yeah, don't think in terms
of mod source
<Kristopher38> yeah, don't think in terms
of mod sourceL8[00:26:19] <Kristopher38> and even if you're in
doubt, you can test it from the REPL
<Kristopher38> and even if you're in
doubt, you can test it from the REPLL9[00:26:34] <Kristopher38>
`component.transposer.getStackInSlot(sides.<side>, 0)`
<Kristopher38>
`component.transposer.getStackInSlot(sides.<side>, 0)`L10[00:26:49] <Kristopher38> it should throw an error if
the slot isn't present
<Kristopher38> it should throw an error if
the slot isn't presentL11[00:27:04] <Kristopher38> I haven't encountered a
single situation when first slot was slot 0
<Kristopher38> I haven't encountered a
single situation when first slot was slot 0L12[00:27:09] <Kristopher38> I haven't encountered a
single situation when first slot was slot 0 though [Edited]
<Kristopher38> I haven't encountered a
single situation when first slot was slot 0 though [Edited]L13[00:41:19] <S3> Hmm....
L14[00:41:26] <S3> ninjaturtle.pizza is
available
L15[00:48:20] <bad at
vijya> heh
<bad at
vijya> hehL16[00:48:25] <bad at
vijya> time for 5 OSes on one computer
<bad at
vijya> time for 5 OSes on one computerL17[01:02:03] ⇦
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L22[01:13:40] <Amanda> %choose space or
halucinate more or irradiate or rainbox
L23[01:13:41] <MichiBot> Amanda: If I had
a gold nugget for every time someone asked me about
"halucinate more"
L24[01:27:28] ⇦
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L25[01:39:10] ⇦
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L26[03:11:14] <Izaya> CompanionCube: sure
enough, https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2020/08/oracle-enters-race-to-buy-tiktoks-us-operations/
L27[03:12:00] <CompanionCube> Izaya:
yeppers
L28[03:12:19] <CompanionCube> is it bad i
want it to happe
L29[03:12:54] <Izaya> Because then tiktok
is doomed?
L30[03:14:49] <CompanionCube> Izaya: not
that
L31[03:15:15] <CompanionCube> i just wanna
see how it'd deal with owning a social network
L32[03:15:52] <CompanionCube> can't exactly
do licensing shenigans or general enterprisey things, so what's in
it for them?
L33[03:23:16] <CompanionCube> Izaya: '
Well, the Donald did want to stick Tik-Tok where the Sun doesn't
shine. '
L34[03:24:03] ⇦
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L35[03:45:07] <BrianH> OH
CRAP
<BrianH> OH
CRAPL36[03:45:29] <BrianH> It
looks like somebody put in the fixes to OCVM upstream on the git to
handle keyboard input properly
<BrianH> It
looks like somebody put in the fixes to OCVM upstream on the git to
handle keyboard input properlyL37[03:45:54] <BrianH>
and the way it does it is it uses ioctl to read directly from the
keyboard
<BrianH>
and the way it does it is it uses ioctl to read directly from the
keyboardL38[03:46:12] <BrianH>
which doesn't work on FreeBSD, because you don't use ioctl to do
that on BSD so it breaks it majorly
<BrianH>
which doesn't work on FreeBSD, because you don't use ioctl to do
that on BSD so it breaks it majorlyL39[03:48:07] <BrianH> at
least not in the same way you would in Linux
<BrianH> at
least not in the same way you would in LinuxL40[04:11:20] ⇨
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L41[04:11:30] <bad_at_vijya> i've done it.
four OSes, one computer
L42[04:13:34] <CompanionCube> oh?
L43[04:21:30] ⇨
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L44[04:21:36] <Ocawesome101> o/
L45[04:26:54] <Izaya> \o
L46[04:29:27] <CompanionCube> what 4
OSes?
L47[04:29:58] <bad_at_vijya> so
L48[04:29:59] <bad_at_vijya> win2k
L49[04:30:05] <bad_at_vijya> debian
10
L50[04:30:07] <bad_at_vijya> haiku
L51[04:30:09] <bad_at_vijya> freebsd
L52[04:30:24] <CompanionCube> why not
reactos
L53[04:31:20] <CompanionCube> otherwise w2k
is the odd one out :p
L54[04:37:23] <bad_at_vijya> why's
that
L55[04:37:53] <hilariousppp> it isn't open source
<hilariousppp> it isn't open sourceL56[04:39:55] <Ocawesome101> and all the
other ones are *nix
L57[04:40:09] <bad_at_vijya> well
L58[04:40:12] <bad_at_vijya> it's a p3
machine
L59[04:40:15] <bad_at_vijya> gotta have
win2k
L60[04:40:22] <bad_at_vijya> also XP
wouldn't fit on a 512MB CF card
L61[04:41:05] <S3> As long as it is not
ME
L62[04:41:31] <S3> Just use an os that
combines the best features of Windows CE, ME, and NT
L63[04:41:35] <S3> windows CEMENT
L64[04:42:34] <Ocawesome101> :D
L65[04:42:39] <S3> Check out http://menuetos.net/
L66[04:42:54] <Ocawesome101> dumb as a rock
and slow as a brick: windows CEMENT
L67[04:43:21] <bad_at_vijya> i mean
L68[04:43:24] <bad_at_vijya> bricks can be
pretty fast
L69[04:43:27] <bad_at_vijya> look at the
MiG-31
L70[04:43:43] <Ocawesome101> whazzat
L71[04:52:32] <S3> Ocawesome101: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikoyan_MiG-31
L72[04:55:05] <Ocawesome101> doesn't look
like a brick
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L75[05:27:23] <S3> What is the purpose of
proc_root() in ocvm drivers/fs_utils.cpp?
L76[05:32:10] <S3> I "think" it's
trying to get the path of the current running process
L77[05:32:14] <S3> maybe
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L79[06:04:58] <Izaya> https://youdieifyou.work/files/yvwhrqacofe.jpg
L80[06:05:00] <Izaya> r8 spaceplane
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L82[06:07:24] <ThePiGuy24> 7/10 is not cessna 172
<ThePiGuy24> 7/10 is not cessna 172L83[06:07:52] <Izaya> no time for
cessna
L84[06:07:59] <Izaya> also I can't build
that sort of design easily
L85[06:31:00] <CompanionCube>
%tonkout
L86[06:31:00] <MichiBot> Consarn it!
CompanionCube! You beat Lizzy's previous record of 9 hours, 22
minutes and 22 seconds (By 59 minutes and 38 seconds)! I hope
you're happy!
L87[06:31:01] <MichiBot> CompanionCube has
stolen the tonkout! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.01 tonk
points! plus 0.009 bonus points for consecutive hours! (Reduced to
50% because stealing) Current score: 1.10227944. Position #2 Need
0.0292664 more points to pass Forecaster!
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L94[08:11:10] <Forecaster> %tonk
<Forecaster> %tonkL95[08:11:12] <MichiBot> Dad-Sizzle!
Forecaster! You beat CompanionCube's previous record of <0 (By
1 hour, 40 minutes and 10 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L96[08:11:13] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new
record is 1 hour, 40 minutes and 10 seconds! Forecaster also gained
0.00167 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
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L99[09:59:27] <Lizzy> %tonk
L100[09:59:27] <MichiBot> Heckgosh!
Lizzy! You beat Forecaster's previous record of 1 hour, 40
minutes and 10 seconds (By 8 minutes and 5 seconds)! I hope you're
happy!
L101[09:59:28] <MichiBot> Lizzy's new
record is 1 hour, 48 minutes and 16 seconds! Lizzy also gained
0.00026 (0.00013 x 2) tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position
#3. Need 0.03345944 more points to pass CompanionCube!
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L110[11:35:00] <Forecaster> %tonk
<Forecaster> %tonkL111[11:35:01] <MichiBot> I'm sorry
Forecaster, you were not able to beat Lizzy's record of 1 hour, 48
minutes and 16 seconds this time. 1 hour, 35 minutes and 33 seconds
were wasted! Missed by 12 minutes and 43 seconds!
L112[11:35:08] <Forecaster> godammit
<Forecaster> godammitL113[11:35:10] <Forecaster> >:
<Forecaster> >:L114[11:36:15]
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L115[11:40:43] <Lizzy> nyahahahahaa
L116[12:01:21]
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L117[12:33:33] <Skye> Lizzy, why are you
evil laughing D:
L118[12:34:16] <Lizzy> Forecaster failed
the tonk
L119[12:40:15] <Forecaster> %splash Lizzy
<Forecaster> %splash LizzyL120[12:40:16] <MichiBot> Forecaster is
trying to splash Lizzy with a a gloopy purple potion! They have 5
minutes if they want to attempt to %defend against it!
L121[12:40:34] <Lizzy> %defend
L122[12:40:34] <MichiBot> Specify an
action as the first parameter: block, guard, deflect, parry,
counterspell, dodge
L123[12:40:43] <Lizzy> %defend
counterspell
L124[12:40:44] <MichiBot> Lizzy: Nothing
to defend against right now.
L125[12:41:00] <Forecaster> ...sigh
<Forecaster> ...sighL126[12:41:05] <Lizzy> %blame
@Forecaster
L127[12:41:06] *
MichiBot blames @Forecaster for the moon not being made of
cheese
L128[12:42:00] <Forecaster> username comparisons are
hard, apparently
<Forecaster> username comparisons are
hard, apparentlyL129[12:43:11] <Skye>
%splash Lizzy
<Skye>
%splash LizzyL130[12:43:12] <MichiBot> Skye is trying
to splash Lizzy with a a smelly sapphire potion! They have 5
minutes if they want to attempt to %defend against it!
L131[12:43:32] <Lizzy> %defend dodge
L132[12:43:33] <MichiBot> Lizzy: Nothing
to defend against right now.
L133[13:03:50] <Forecaster> just saw a whole bunch of
decommissioned carriers
<Forecaster> just saw a whole bunch of
decommissioned carriersL134[13:03:57] <Forecaster> one was named
"Minecraft"
<Forecaster> one was named
"Minecraft"L135[13:08:45]
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L138[13:17:42] <DukeDankins> what's the difference
between managed and unmanaged drives?
<DukeDankins> what's the difference
between managed and unmanaged drives?L139[13:17:42] <DukeDankins> I know that managed gives
you access to the filesystem library, and unmanaged lets you use
the drive library, but I don't really know what the differences
between them are, or why you would use one over the other
<DukeDankins> I know that managed gives
you access to the filesystem library, and unmanaged lets you use
the drive library, but I don't really know what the differences
between them are, or why you would use one over the otherL140[13:18:14] <Izaya> managed filesystems
give you a file tree you can interact with as files
L141[13:18:29] <Izaya> umanaged drives
give you a bunch of sectors you can get and set
L142[13:19:23] <DukeDankins> any difference in speed or
space that would warrant using unmanaged drives?
<DukeDankins> any difference in speed or
space that would warrant using unmanaged drives?L143[13:19:39] <Izaya> not
necessarily
L144[13:19:52] <Izaya> you'd use an
umanaged drive if you wanted to implement your own filesystem
L145[13:20:03] <Izaya> or use it as the
backend storage for a database or something
L146[13:21:55] <Izaya> tl;dr umanaged
upside: flexible; downside: do everything yourself
L147[13:29:20] <stephan48> g3
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L157[14:31:31] <Forecaster> woop, I'm an earl, only two
more rankups left before I unlock the Imperial Cutter
<Forecaster> woop, I'm an earl, only two
more rankups left before I unlock the Imperial CutterL158[15:10:20] <Lizzy> %tonkout
L159[15:10:20] <MichiBot> Fudge! Lizzy!
You beat your own previous record of 1 hour, 48 minutes and 16
seconds (By 1 hour, 47 minutes and 3 seconds)! I hope you're
happy!
L160[15:10:21] <MichiBot> Lizzy has
tonked out! Tonk has been reset! They gained 0.003 tonk points!
plus 0.004 bonus points for consecutive hours! Current score:
1.07582, Position #3 Need 0.02645944 more points to pass
CompanionCube!
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L164[16:02:41] <Forecaster> %choose have $;both pizza and
kebab,just kebab,just pizza
<Forecaster> %choose have $;both pizza and
kebab,just kebab,just pizzaL165[16:02:41] <MichiBot> Forecaster:
have just kebab
L166[16:02:47] <Forecaster> alrighty
<Forecaster> alrightyL167[16:31:29] <S3> Why can't ocvm just be
written in C
L168[16:31:31] <S3> lol
L169[16:31:41] <S3> This is fun
L170[16:34:11] <S3> For anyone who is
interested (cough cough , AdorableCatGirl) The FreeBSD fork of OCVM
is almost done.
L171[16:38:18] <Kristopher38> haha c++ go brrrr
<Kristopher38> haha c++ go brrrrL172[16:40:17] <S3> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/z689mbUB/image.png
L173[16:40:39] <S3> Looks like it boots
:)
L174[16:42:54] <S3> I'll gmake clean and
start the process of pushing changes upstream and submit a PR.
However, I haven't added an error check on the proc_root return
though, the thing is sysctl doesn't really care, it knows the
length of the output ahead of time
L175[16:43:34] <S3> finding the current
path of the running process in FreeBSD is actually a sysctl call
with an MIB so it's kind of weird.
L176[16:47:39] <Amanda> %roll 1d2
L177[16:47:39] <MichiBot> 2
L178[16:48:10] <Forecaster> you don't need the 1 you know
:<
<Forecaster> you don't need the 1 you know
:<L179[16:48:14] <Forecaster> :>*
<Forecaster> :>*L180[16:48:39] <Forecaster> %tonk
<Forecaster> %tonkL181[16:48:39] <MichiBot> Aw jeez!
Forecaster! You beat Lizzy's previous record of <0 (By 1 hour,
38 minutes and 18 seconds)! I hope you're happy!
L182[16:48:40] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new
record is 1 hour, 38 minutes and 18 seconds! Forecaster also gained
0.00164 tonk points for stealing the tonk. Position #1.
L183[16:52:04] <fingercomp> speaking of OC
emulators https://i.imgur.com/JgmKNMh.png
L184[16:52:30] <Skye> fingercomp, I need
this
L185[16:55:14] <fingercomp> Skye: https://cc-ru.gitlab.io/ocelot/ocelot-desktop/ocelot.jar
L186[16:55:27] <fingercomp> though it's
still work in progress, riddled with bugs
L187[16:55:54] <Forecaster> buggled with rids you
say
<Forecaster> buggled with rids you
sayL188[16:58:24] <Skye> fingercomp, two
things I've tnoiced: animations are annoyingly distracting, and I'd
like it to have (optional) computer sounds
L189[16:58:37] <S3> fingercomp: This
reminds me of ccemu for some reason
L190[16:58:49] <Skye> S3, it reminds me of
it in a good way lol
L191[16:58:57] <S3> Hi Skye!
L192[16:58:58] <S3> ltns
L193[16:59:36] <S3> I was starting to
think you were eaten by a grue
L194[16:59:57] <S3> I need to fudge the
Makefile for ocvm
L195[17:00:05] <S3> so I can get it to
detect FreeBSD and use fetch instead of wget
L196[17:00:19] <S3> I cheated and made a
symlink
L197[17:00:24] <fingercomp> Skye: this
emulator is made by LeshaInc, Totoro and rason
L198[17:00:32] <fingercomp> I'm just
advertising it shamelessly
L199[17:00:38] <S3> :D
L200[17:00:46] <S3> I always wanted to
make a CLI emu in Lua but
L201[17:00:52] <S3> I have better things
to do
L202[17:02:10] *
Skye pokes LeshaInc and Totoro
L203[17:02:19] <S3> heh
L204[17:02:23] <LeshaInc> hello
L205[17:02:54] <Skye> should I use this
for miniOS NT development I wonder
L206[17:03:56] <fingercomp> Skye: I'd wait
before it can save and restore the workspace, which is being worked
on, I believe
L207[17:04:09] <LeshaInc> it can do that
already
L208[17:04:58] <Skye> ooh
L209[17:05:17] <Skye> well honestly the
only thing that bugs me now is just the animations are a tad slow
and distracting lol
L210[17:05:34] <Totoro> oi
L211[17:05:48] <LeshaInc> i can add an
option to turn them off
L212[17:05:55] <Totoro> fingercomp leaking
dev builds
L213[17:05:56] <Totoro> mmm
L214[17:06:07] <Skye> LeshaInc, that would
be nice
L215[17:06:21] <Skye> though mainly my
issue is that stuff like the fading animation gets in the way of
using it
L216[17:06:22] <Skye> like
L217[17:06:43] <Skye> you need to wait for
the file menu to fade in before you can click anything on it
L218[17:07:59] <LeshaInc> i thought the
file menu has no animations, it's just a JFileChooser
L219[17:08:11] <Skye> I mean
L220[17:08:15] <Skye> the button at the
top left
L221[17:08:17] <Skye> that says
L222[17:08:18] <Skye>
"file"
L223[17:08:19] <Forecaster> it does but for me it's super
quick
<Forecaster> it does but for me it's super
quickL224[17:08:32] <Skye> not the file browser
boxes
L225[17:08:44] <Totoro> yep, animations on
main UI elements can be annoying
L226[17:08:57] <Totoro> it would be good
to have some switch
L227[17:09:01] <Totoro> to turn them
off
L228[17:09:19] <LeshaInc> Totoro: you'd
better be fixing the backend bugs instead of chilling here
L229[17:09:24] <Totoro> :P
L230[17:09:31] <Totoro> I'm already opened
IDEA
L231[17:09:39] <Totoro> *'ve
L232[17:09:49] <Forecaster> also, you apparently can't
set ram or card slots to empty like you can the floppy slot
<Forecaster> also, you apparently can't
set ram or card slots to empty like you can the floppy slotL233[17:10:08] <fingercomp> @Forecaster
use the RMB
L234[17:10:10] <LeshaInc> right click
-> remove
L235[17:10:19] <Forecaster> ah
<Forecaster> ahL236[17:10:27] <fingercomp> Totoro:
hopefully me sacrificing the secret will make you motivated enough
to fix those bugs
L237[17:10:28] <LeshaInc>
"empty" in the floppy slot is just an empty floppy
L238[17:10:32] <LeshaInc> not the empty
slot
L239[17:10:35] <Forecaster> oh I see, the
"empty"... yeah
<Forecaster> oh I see, the
"empty"... yeahL240[17:10:37] <Forecaster> :P
<Forecaster> :PL241[17:10:41] <Forecaster> I realize that now
<Forecaster> I realize that nowL242[17:11:00] <Totoro> fingercomp: but my
hope will never die
L243[17:11:56] <LeshaInc> btw ocelot is
based off opencomputers original code so the emulation should be as
precise as possible
L244[17:12:16] <Totoro> some bugs from OC
may be emulated too
L245[17:12:18] <Totoro> =)
L246[17:12:21] <Skye> I mean
L247[17:12:24] <Skye> that's good
right
L248[17:12:34] <Forecaster> aw, it doesn't store machine
states when you exit
<Forecaster> aw, it doesn't store machine
states when you exitL249[17:12:51] <LeshaInc> you need to save
it manually for that
L250[17:12:56] <Forecaster> oh, it doesn't autosave
<Forecaster> oh, it doesn't autosaveL251[17:13:00] <dequbed> I mean an
emulator that doesn't emulate bugs in the target platform is not
doing it's job properly ;)
L252[17:13:13] <Totoro> my thoughts
too
L253[17:13:47] <dequbed> Imagine a GB
emulator not emulating the bugs of an actual GB. Most games would
just not work :p
L254[17:13:54] <Forecaster> can you make it so you can
set the address of a component, like a harddrive? :P
<Forecaster> can you make it so you can
set the address of a component, like a harddrive? :PL255[17:14:09] <S3> It looks like OCM's
subversion detection is broken, I'll fix that too..
L256[17:14:18] <Forecaster> cause now I have this
orhpaned harddrive folder from the previous run
<Forecaster> cause now I have this
orhpaned harddrive folder from the previous runL257[17:14:19] <Totoro> Forecaster:
sure
L258[17:14:45] <S3> There's also something
broken with the fact that it doesn't check /usr/local/include as
well as /usr/include, and /usr/local/lib either, which is kind of
broken
L259[17:15:15] <S3> Should work with
either
L260[17:15:26] <Forecaster> also when servers? :P
<Forecaster> also when servers? :PL261[17:15:31] <dequbed> S3: Eh, none of
the local* locations are standardized enough for that really.
L262[17:15:46] <S3> I'm not horribly
worried about it
L263[17:15:56] <S3> I was just surprised
that it didn't pick it up from ldconfig
L264[17:16:10] <S3> I kinda fudged it by
making symlinks XD
L265[17:16:24] <dequbed> I mean if it uses
autotools it should, yeah. But if its some other build system who
knows what it assumes your particular Linux instance does with its
free time.
L266[17:16:32] <S3> dequbed: to be fair,
Lua's headers and library installation is completely screwy as it
is
L267[17:16:46] <dequbed> S3: Which header
and library installation isn't?
L268[17:16:49] <S3> and pretty much needs
to be tweaked whenever doing anything lua on most systems and most
distributions
L269[17:16:58] <S3> True
L270[17:17:22] <S3> Looks like its
switching to fetch instead of wget on BSD now
L271[17:17:32] <S3> I just made a
WGET_PATH and WGET_OPTS vars
L272[17:17:44] <S3> I'll need someone to
test it with a linux system thoug
L273[17:17:50] <S3> should work
L274[17:18:00] <dequbed> If you throw me
an ebuild I can.
L275[17:18:30] <S3> Oh so you're one of
THOSE people
L276[17:18:34] <S3> :D
L277[17:18:34] <LeshaInc> Skye: is
animation speed comparable to that? https://youtu.be/05qtPWagx3A
L278[17:18:36] <MichiBot> 2020 08 19 19
16 14 | length: 18s | Likes: 0 Dislikes: 0
Views: 0 | by LeshaInc World | Published On
19/8/2020
L279[17:18:46] <dequbed> S3: One of
*those* using Gentoo? Yes, on occasion.
L280[17:18:52] <S3> heheh
L281[17:19:08] <Skye> LeshaInc, that's
what it looks like
L282[17:19:15] <Forecaster> Leshalnc same
<Forecaster> Leshalnc sameL283[17:19:28] <fingercomp> by the way,
there's also a rudimentary web version https://ocelot.fomalhaut.me/
L284[17:19:35] <S3> dequbed: that's an
idea, have gmake generate an ebuild
L285[17:19:43] <dequbed> S3: Have
fun.
L286[17:19:48] <S3> Nah
L287[17:19:54] <LeshaInc> well i thought
it is fast enough
L288[17:20:15] <S3> time to figure out why
I can type svn but ocvm makefile thinks svn is not installed
L289[17:20:21] <Skye> it seems to be for
the file menu at least... that it isn't interactable until it has
fully faded in
L290[17:20:29] <dequbed> S3: I mean if it
uses autotools an ebuild is exactly one line most of the time:
"EABI=6"
L291[17:20:31] <Forecaster> I think it's fast
enough
<Forecaster> I think it's fast
enoughL292[17:20:32]
⇨ Joins: rason (~rsngm@178.46.69.32)
L293[17:20:55] <S3> I think its the use of
||
L294[17:21:02] <S3> but this is zsh so it
should work
L295[17:21:19] <S3> I don't have bash to
test that
L296[17:21:40] <S3> eh, it has no depends
ill install it
L297[17:22:59] <dequbed> S3: Reminds me,
lecturer of mine once tried to convice a class I was in that C is
much better than C++ because, and I quote: "It has no
runtime".
L298[17:23:00] <S3> it works, its the
command thats misleading
L299[17:23:23] <S3> That's not necessarily
what makes it better or not
L300[17:23:36] <dequbed> Yes. And it's not
even correct in the first place.
L301[17:24:06] <S3> Also you can run C++
without standard namespaces
L302[17:24:36] <S3> just like how you can
compile C without stdlib
L303[17:25:08] <S3> I just don't like C++
because I find the parts of it that make it C++ to be very
annoying.
L304[17:25:23] <S3> like its
implementation of OOP
L305[17:25:35] <dequbed> But yeah that was
also the reason why we were forbidden from using C++. Because he
was of the staunch opinion that since C runs directly without any
runtime or initialization it's infinitely better.
L306[17:26:23] <dequbed> (note: C does
neither work w/o runtime *or* initialization by default. Getting
rid of either is a fuckton of work and not a good idea in most
cases)
L307[17:26:26] <S3> I find that if I want
OOP I want a higher level language and the OOP facilities in most
other languages are a hundred times more powerful and
painless.
L308[17:26:44] <S3> Though Templates from
C++11 are kind of cool
L309[17:26:51] <dequbed> S3: Eh, just use
Burroughs Large Systems arch. :p
L310[17:26:58] <S3> lol
L311[17:27:13] <S3> I actually honestly
don't even like C much
L312[17:27:27] <dequbed> Who does.
L313[17:27:54] <S3> When I use C I tend to
be writing assembly and if I want something a higher level than
assembly on a small system, I'd rather use Forth :P
L314[17:27:59] <dequbed> C is one of those
languages where the more you learn about it the less you like
it.
L315[17:28:25] <S3> It is nice that C is
really small at least
L316[17:28:28] <S3> there isn't really
much to it
L317[17:28:38] <S3> on its own
L318[17:29:24] <dequbed> I mean not much
except the absolute tarpit, tripwires and small-caliber footguns
that is the C standard, POSIX and the glibc :p
L319[17:29:43] <dequbed> Still better than
all of that *and* large-caliber footguns you'll get with C++, but I
digress ;)
L320[17:33:29] <S3> heh
L321[17:34:02] <S3> I hear some people are
starting to really take a liking to Rust
L322[17:34:14] <S3> There's even an OS
some team was working on I think
L323[17:34:17] <S3> rustos or
something
L324[17:34:19] <dequbed> RedoxOS
L325[17:34:21] <S3> Yes
L326[17:34:23] <S3> redox
L327[17:34:39] <dequbed> I'm ... acutely
aware of the Rust world :p
L328[17:34:43] <S3> I looked a little into
it, but again when I want a systems language I am usually working
with very tiny systems
L329[17:35:05] <S3> I don't think rust on
a system with 2KB of memory is uh
L330[17:35:15] <S3> a good concept of
fun
L331[17:36:15] <dequbed> S3: https://github.com/Rahix/avr-hal You would be
surprised.
L332[17:36:47] <S3> heheh
L333[17:37:04] <S3> Thats cool
L334[17:37:09] <S3> I was thinking more
MSP430 but
L335[17:37:10] <dequbed> Rust is currently
not suited for super tiny systems because the generated code is
slightly larger than C or handwritten ASM but other than that, it's
fine.
L336[17:37:31] <dequbed> But with slightly
larger I mean some 20%, not like some 200%.
L337[17:37:35] <Skye> I guess you cannot
use the rust stdlib
L338[17:37:44] <Skye> :P
L339[17:37:59] <S3> who wants an
stdlib
L340[17:38:11] <S3> :D
L341[17:38:27] <dequbed> Skye: You can't
use large C libraries either.
L342[17:38:35] <dequbed> Like, dunno,
glibc.
L343[17:40:39] <dequbed> S3: Anyway,
looket https://github.com/rust-embedded/wg for
that kind of stuff
L344[17:54:06] <S3> I would like any Linux
/ Haiky volunteers to checkout and build OCVM from my repository
before I make a PR if possible please to make sure it still builds
on those systems.
L345[17:54:08] <S3> https://github.com/bhodgins/ocvm
L346[17:54:34] <S3> wg huh
L347[17:54:50] <S3> Haiku not Haiky*
L348[18:00:28] <S3> Verification of build
on FreeBSD: https://paste.pc-logix.com/arucovicat.txt
L349[18:00:50] <S3> Keep in mind until I
fix it it depends on GCC C++
L350[18:01:14] <S3> there's a problem
compiling on Clang at the very end of the compile I need to look at
so it can build on native clang
L351[18:02:05] <bad at
vijya> h a i k u
<bad at
vijya> h a i k uL352[18:02:08] <bad at
vijya> sex
<bad at
vijya> sexL353[18:02:12] <bad at
vijya> *sEC
<bad at
vijya> *sECL354[18:02:20] <bad at
vijya> fat finger smh
<bad at
vijya> fat finger smhL355[18:02:21] <S3> Hey
L356[18:02:26] <S3> read the news :D
L357[18:02:34] <bad at
vijya> anyways, i'll build it after my shower--huh?
<bad at
vijya> anyways, i'll build it after my shower--huh?L358[18:02:41] <S3> OCVM compiles and runs
on FreeBSD now thanks to me staying up until 3 am
L359[18:02:45] <bad at
vijya> ah
<bad at
vijya> ahL360[18:02:51] <Skye> S3, are you
okay
L361[18:02:52] <bad at
vijya> nice!
<bad at
vijya> nice!L362[18:03:01] <S3> Skye: hah
L363[18:03:01] <Skye> ~~now port it to
windows~~
L364[18:03:28] <S3> the real reason I
stayed up was because I got a call at about 1am from someone saying
"I'm broken down on the side of the road come get
me"
L365[18:04:06] <S3> Skye: I haven't
"ported" it to Windows but I have OCVM running on
WSL
L366[18:04:11] <S3> it runs great on
WSL
L367[18:04:54] <S3> if you install WSL on
Windows it should build no problem
L368[18:05:22] <Skye> it builds
L369[18:05:24] <Skye> but is janky
L370[18:05:37] <S3> this is true
L371[18:08:40] <S3> I feel like ocvm
should have a --bare or something
L372[18:08:47] <S3> to install a new
instance with an empty bios
L373[18:08:53] <S3> and no openos
L374[18:09:08] <S3> and maybe some options
to add and remove components
L375[18:12:19] <bad at
vijya> damn that'd be bangin
<bad at
vijya> damn that'd be banginL376[18:12:32] <bad at
vijya> or even just --new
<bad at
vijya> or even just --newL377[18:13:23] <Forecaster> %sip
<Forecaster> %sipL378[18:13:23] <MichiBot> You drink a
basic grass potion (New!). Forecaster gains one research point.
Forecaster now has 1 point.
L379[18:14:00] <Forecaster> I'm gonna save up enough
points to research research point mining
<Forecaster> I'm gonna save up enough
points to research research point miningL380[18:14:11] <Forecaster> (that's probably how that
works)
<Forecaster> (that's probably how that
works)L381[18:14:56] <S3> I'll think about
it
L382[18:15:06] <S3> but my C++ looks like
C because I don't know C++ very well
L383[18:15:07] <S3> heh
L384[18:15:25] <Forecaster> C+=1
<Forecaster> C+=1L385[18:15:30] <S3> dequbed: So you
thought your professor was weird
L386[18:15:51] <S3> My C++ professor back
in college taught C++ with source code in Microsoft Word
L387[18:16:09] <S3> Gotta love that serif
variable width font
L388[18:17:11] <dequbed> S3: Luckily for
me, not even a professor. Means I could laugh in his face when he
said stupid shit and he couldn't pull rank.
L389[18:18:20] <dequbed> S3: My
*professor* unironically used vi on a 80-char wide terminal and
told people using Winderps that they are SOL if they had
issues.
L390[18:19:03] <CompanionCube> not even
vim?
L391[18:19:09] <dequbed> Nope
L392[18:19:19] <S3> I think most would say
that
L393[18:19:34] <S3> my EE professors said
the same ting about SOL
L394[18:19:57] <dequbed> S3: Yeah, but she
made a point of telling people that they are free to use windows
but all tutors and herself reserve the right to laugh at them if
they had issues.
L395[18:20:19] <S3> we used open source
software to do all our PCB board design, HDL stuff etc for CE and
EE classes
L396[18:20:34] <bad at
vijya> my java teacher said that he would only give help for
windows users and we couldn't install notepad++
<bad at
vijya> my java teacher said that he would only give help for
windows users and we couldn't install notepad++L397[18:20:37] <S3> lol
L398[18:21:02] <bad at
vijya> or
<bad at
vijya> orL399[18:21:04] <bad at
vijya> any IDE
<bad at
vijya> any IDEL400[18:21:11] <S3> What was really
bad
L401[18:21:17] <S3> is that some parents
would buy their kids macs
L402[18:21:28] <S3> and half the software
didnt work on macs without ridiculous work
L403[18:21:35] <bad at
vijya> hA
<bad at
vijya> hAL404[18:21:37] <bad at
vijya> mac
<bad at
vijya> macL405[18:22:08] <bad at
vijya> i still love how ansi escapes were b a d
<bad at
vijya> i still love how ansi escapes were b a dL406[18:22:20] <dequbed> CompanionCube:
Professors that would code live were split pretty evenly between
vi/vim and emacs but always used a pretty black&white
"colour" scheme and didn't know about any editor other
than those two. "Atom? is that like nano?"
L407[18:22:38] <S3> LOL
L408[18:22:50] <S3> I despise nano
L409[18:22:58] <dequbed> "sure you
can use nano, I wouldn't but it's your time."
L410[18:23:00] <S3> I actually used emacs
for many years
L411[18:23:06] <S3> I still would if I
needed to
L412[18:23:20] <bad at
vijya> i use nano because micro won't work :(
<bad at
vijya> i use nano because micro won't work :(L413[18:23:25] <S3> After all you know
what they say about emacs
L414[18:23:37] <S3> emacs is a great OS,
if only it came with a decent editor
L415[18:24:06] <bad at
vijya> i think i gotta build micro in debian and freebsd
<bad at
vijya> i think i gotta build micro in debian and freebsdL416[18:24:14] <bad at
vijya> repo version gives me invalid opcode error
<bad at
vijya> repo version gives me invalid opcode errorL417[18:24:15] <S3> you gotta build
ocvm
L418[18:24:16] <S3> :D
L419[18:24:27] <S3> though building in bsd
requires playing with lua libs
L420[18:24:42] <S3> but it should build in
Linux
L421[18:24:54] <bad at
vijya> tho i might just make my own editor
<bad at
vijya> tho i might just make my own editorL422[18:24:57] <bad at
vijya> in lua
<bad at
vijya> in luaL423[18:24:59] <dequbed> S3: Anyway, most
of my professors are great. Tutors/docents not so much sometimes
^^'
L424[18:25:10] <S3> I want to make an
editor with syntax highlighting for oc but I kinda don';t
L425[18:25:26] <S3> OMG so the thing I
hated about the TAs that grade you dequbed
L426[18:25:32] <bad at
vijya> stty -raw time
<bad at
vijya> stty -raw timeL427[18:25:33] <S3> is that they had no
leeway
L428[18:25:50] <S3> When I took a class in
C they wanted us to use scanf for all of our input
L429[18:25:55] <S3> but scanf is very
dangerous
L430[18:26:07] <S3> so I used alternate
functions that were standard and much safer
L431[18:26:24] <CompanionCube> my choices
are emacs and nano
L432[18:26:29] <S3> they wanted to give me
a 0 for it
L433[18:27:10] <S3> even though my
comments said something for example like "using fgets here
because if you enter a blank line with scanf in this situation it
causes a buffer issue that allows you to read memory beyond the
process boundry, or stuff like that
L435[18:27:17] <dequbed> S3: Grading in CS
is stupid everywhere. I partly took over teaching the functional
part of one course because I literally knew more Haskell and about
the GHC (and how to use it <.<) than the assistant teaching.
Still got graded by him.
L436[18:27:36] <S3> Heh
L437[18:27:46] <S3> I never got into
haskell
L438[18:28:09] <S3> Its neat though. I
havebeen writing in Elixir for some time though
L439[18:28:10] *
CompanionCube wonders who's the local member of the Rust Evangelism
Strikeforce
L440[18:28:20] <bad at
vijya> bob
<bad at
vijya> bobL441[18:28:23] <bad at
vijya> bob is
<bad at
vijya> bob isL442[18:28:26] <S3> lo
L443[18:28:29] <dequbed> Its a wonderful
language! combines the readability of Perl with the speed of
Python!
L444[18:28:47] <bad at
vijya> hahaha
<bad at
vijya> hahahaL445[18:29:02] <S3> I love Perl
L446[18:29:19] <S3> I was a Perl
programmer for years
L447[18:29:30] <dequbed> S3: More
seriously though; Haskell is great if you need software that is
"stable" but somehow can't use Ada. Or if you just want
to program Python in slightly faster with less crashing?
L448[18:29:48] <CompanionCube> bad at
vijya: no, bob uses BobX.
L449[18:29:50] <S3> Do people still use
Ada?
L450[18:29:55] <dequbed> S3: Sure
do.
L451[18:29:55] <t20kdc> Rust is C++ with
less instability and a compiler that hates people
L452[18:30:16] <S3> lol
L453[18:30:33] <dequbed> Rust is much less
stable than C++ though.
L454[18:30:35] <S3> t20kdc: Didn't you
write some fast framebuffer code for OC a while back?
L455[18:30:46] <CompanionCube> (If anyone
doesn't know what bobx is, it's from tdwtf)
L456[18:30:59] <t20kdc> S3: I don't know.
Are you referring to the internals of metamachine?
L457[18:31:03] <S3> YES
L458[18:31:10] <S3> How'd you guess
ahahaha
L459[18:31:26] <t20kdc> S3: Because it's
the only fast framebuffer code for OC I've written?
L460[18:31:26] <dequbed> And it's not that
rustc *hates* people! rustc *loves* people and just really doesn't
want them to do anything dangerous! Even if it would be
*fun*.
L461[18:32:15] <bad at
vijya> OOP in C by casting structs
<bad at
vijya> OOP in C by casting structsL462[18:32:30] <Kristopher38> @Bob rust was mentioned,
you know what to do
<Kristopher38> @Bob rust was mentioned,
you know what to doL463[18:32:36] <dequbed> Want a compiler
that *actually* hates you? Try ada.
L464[18:32:46] <bad at
vijya> S3: repo pls
<bad at
vijya> S3: repo plsL465[18:32:51] <Skye> dequbed, for *fun*
use unsafe blocks? :P
L466[18:33:14] <dequbed> Skye: unsafe{}
isn't more fun than safe Rust. Most invariants still hold.
L467[18:33:16] <S3> https://github.com/bhodgins/ocvm
L468[18:33:34] <S3> its been merged into
master so no branch switching needed
L469[18:33:35] <CompanionCube> ah what the
hell, i'll post it anyway: https://thedailywtf.com/articles/We-Use-BobX
L470[18:34:11] <dequbed> Skye: Still can't
like ... change page bits to +X and write some lovely
self-referential modifying code without going "fuck it,
llvm_asm! it is."
L471[18:34:27] <S3> What system are you
building on Vijya
L472[18:34:40] <bad at
vijya> haiku
<bad at
vijya> haikuL473[18:34:48] ⇦
Quits: ben_mkiv (~ben_mkiv@88.130.156.223) (Ping timeout: 189
seconds)
L474[18:35:04] <bad at
vijya> compiler shat itself
<bad at
vijya> compiler shat itselfL475[18:36:27] <dequbed> S3: One quib I
still use about Rust (it has gotten *soo* much better !.!) is Rust
is for people that looked at C pointers and went: Those look cool.
Let's have like ... four types of pointer for more fun!
L476[18:36:54] <S3> LOL
L477[18:37:10] <S3> I remember my ARM arch
prof
L478[18:37:24] <S3> making fun of a CS
student saying CE student know what pointer us
L479[18:37:25] <dequbed> Technically you
could say it had 5 types but they dropped one.
L480[18:37:29] <S3> know what pointer is
*
L481[18:37:35] <t20kdc> The primary
difference between Rust and C++ is that Rust has the
immutability/mutability thing, and one would think that'd be fine,
but...
L482[18:38:09] <t20kdc> it makes the
borrowing rules a billion times more complicated to actually
use
L483[18:38:25] <dequbed> Does it
though?
L484[18:38:59] <S3> It could be Lua where
every table is a reference so you can't pass around tables byval
without wasting cycles
L485[18:39:16] <S3> That is my biggest
cripe about Lua and the biggest hit to my OC OS
L486[18:40:43] <bad at
vijya> god
<bad at
vijya> godL487[18:40:47] <t20kdc> dequbed: RefCell
needs to exist because of the mutable/immutable thing
L488[18:40:49] <bad at
vijya> why did i bother installing go
<bad at
vijya> why did i bother installing goL489[18:41:01] <bad at
vijya> i could write my own editor in the time it takes to
extract
<bad at
vijya> i could write my own editor in the time it takes to
extractL490[18:41:14] <dequbed> t20kdc: RefCell
/= borrowing rules
L491[18:42:08] <t20kdc> dequbed: the
borrowing rules are, IIRC, "one mutable either-or any amount
of immutable", correct?
L492[18:42:16] <dequbed> t20kdc:
Yes*
L493[18:42:36] <dequbed> As in Yes, except
when No.
L494[18:42:51] <t20kdc> dequbed: I'm
curious about the "No"
L495[18:43:06] <CompanionCube> dequbed:
they dropped a type of pointer?
L496[18:44:03] <dequbed> CompanionCube:
Box used to be ~yourname where ~ meant heap-ptr specifically.
L497[18:44:15] <dequbed> Hi, I've written
Rust for waay to long to remeber that :p
L498[18:44:43] <dequbed> t20kdc: special
cases around optimizations are one thing. If I have more time some
time I'll do a full writeup.
L499[18:45:31] <bad at
vijya> >try to build micro
<bad at
vijya> >try to build microL500[18:45:32] <bad at
vijya> >signal 4
<bad at
vijya> >signal 4L501[18:46:35] <bad at
vijya> sigill
<bad at
vijya> sigillL502[18:46:51] <bad at
vijya> looks like i need SSE2 to even use Go
<bad at
vijya> looks like i need SSE2 to even use GoL503[18:46:55] <bad at
vijya> that solves that issue
<bad at
vijya> that solves that issueL504[18:47:02] <bad at
vijya> time to make my own text editor in lua
<bad at
vijya> time to make my own text editor in luaL505[18:47:59] <S3> Upgrade to Pentium
Pro
L506[18:48:43] <bad at
vijya> i have a pentium 2
<bad at
vijya> i have a pentium 2L507[18:48:46] <bad at
vijya> *3
<bad at
vijya> *3L508[18:49:09] <dequbed> CompanionCube:
Refreshed my memory again because something felt off: Nope, ~ was
the unique ptr, @ was the box pointer. My bad.
L509[18:49:38] <dequbed> That being said,
~ would be slightly closer to today's Box than @.
L510[18:50:18] <bad at
vijya> hub
<bad at
vijya> hubL511[18:50:20] <bad at
vijya> *huh
<bad at
vijya> *huhL512[18:50:25] <bad at
vijya> e2fsck exploded
<bad at
vijya> e2fsck explodedL513[18:50:27] <bad at
vijya> fun
<bad at
vijya> funL514[18:52:01] <dequbed> Rust release
party was 5 years ago. Time flies :D
L515[18:53:36] <Bob> Hype
for Ed. 2021
<Bob> Hype
for Ed. 2021L516[18:53:44] <bad at
vijya> i wanna die
<bad at
vijya> i wanna dieL517[18:54:11] <bad at
vijya> e2fsck is looking for black magic unicode
characters
<bad at
vijya> e2fsck is looking for black magic unicode
charactersL518[18:54:28] <bad at
vijya> in library form
<bad at
vijya> in library formL519[18:54:51] <bad at
vijya> wh-what
<bad at
vijya> wh-whatL520[18:54:55] <bad at
vijya> using my other kernel
<bad at
vijya> using my other kernelL521[18:55:02] <bad at
vijya> magically works
<bad at
vijya> magically worksL522[19:00:39] <bad at
vijya> time to write
<bad at
vijya> time to writeL523[19:00:42] <bad at
vijya> a magic editor
<bad at
vijya> a magic editorL524[19:00:42] <bad at
vijya> in lua
<bad at
vijya> in luaL525[19:00:51] <bad at
vijya> callin it `milli`
<bad at
vijya> callin it `milli`L526[19:04:29] <t20kdc> dequbed: so...
anyway, assuming my interpretation of the borrowing rules is in
fact correct except for weird internal things, then maintaining the
ability to write the same data from multiple places is only
possible with interior mutability.
L527[19:06:46] <dequbed> t20kdc: Well,
yes. But since "writing data from multiple places" is
just a different way of saying "race condition" that's by
design.
L528[19:07:17] <dequbed> Yes, sometimes
*you* can prove that it's not but the compiler can't prove it to
you. That's what's interior mutability is for.
L529[19:07:27] <t20kdc> dequbed: That
makes perfect sense across threads.
L530[19:08:30] <t20kdc> But then you get
situations like "I have a mutable VM borrow, mutable VM messes
with environment, environment wants to do something with VM,
suddenly I'm redesigning all of my datastructures."
L531[19:09:15] <dequbed> t20kdc: But you
are right in so far as that Rust does not have an implementation of
STM or equivalent. Which would be nice but STM is the kind of
engineering work that needs Microsoft to pay for it. Maybe in a few
years.
L532[19:10:37] <t20kdc> I don't know what
STM is, but... my point isn't really about STM. It's about how the
borrow rules, being tuned for multi-threaded programs, go
out-of-bounds and start affecting the program design of even
single-threaded work.
L533[19:10:59] <t20kdc> Unless STM is
"single-threaded memory" or something. Then I guess it's
about STM?
L534[19:11:11] <dequbed> And yes, if you
need bidirectional communication or even worse a representation of
bidirectional dependency you have to go about it in a very much
different way. unsafe{}, interior mutability or message passing.
All of them with their own problems but safer to a degree than in
C++ or equivalent (hopefully)
L535[19:12:14] <dequbed> STM -> State
Transactional Memory. Very very fancy maths to prove that
concurrent effects are safe in a modular enough way that you can
combine a lot of STM code doing tons of very racy things but the
compiler can make it very unracy
L536[19:12:29] <dequbed> With the least
amount of locking possible as well.
L537[19:12:45] <dequbed> least* with an
asterisk of course, caveats apply
L538[19:13:45] <dequbed> Err, Software
Transactional Memory is it called in Haskell. Something else used
State and I always get them confusered.
L539[19:16:12] <t20kdc> Thing is,
single-threaded operations generally don't have to worry about race
conditions.
L540[19:17:34] <dequbed> Correct. In those
cases STM can derive the most efficient solution as well, using no
locking :p
L541[19:18:25] <dequbed> In other words:
Rust lacks the ability outside of RefCell and friends to
differentiate between "ability to race condition" and
"actually racing".
L542[19:18:44] <dequbed> And with RefCell
it can only do so at runtime. By just looking if it's racing.
L543[19:19:44] <t20kdc> The point being...
with Rust, basically anything that could ever, even eternally in
the future, cause a recursive access needs the struct to be divided
up and Cell'd or RefCell'd as appropriate for the access
type.
L544[19:22:03] <dequbed> t20kdc: Yes. That
is simply a design constrait. With standards-compliant C you can't
build applications with multiple entry points or rely on the memory
representation of ... anything really. In most code this is not an
issue, and in *all* code this can be worked around. Same goes for
Rust. You have to design around it's limitations just as much as
with $otherlang. And design changes accordingly.
L545[19:22:58] <bad at
vijya> you know what
<bad at
vijya> you know whatL546[19:22:59] <bad at
vijya> fuck it
<bad at
vijya> fuck itL547[19:23:03] <bad at
vijya> you can run lua in my editor
<bad at
vijya> you can run lua in my editorL548[19:23:07] <bad at
vijya> because i don't give a fuck
<bad at
vijya> because i don't give a fuckL549[19:23:13] <bad at
vijya> commands are just lua functions
<bad at
vijya> commands are just lua functionsL550[19:23:39] <dequbed> Sounds like
PsychOS - the editor.
L551[19:24:30] <bad at
vijya> yep
<bad at
vijya> yepL552[19:24:39] <bad at
vijya> makes it super easy to extend it tho
<bad at
vijya> makes it super easy to extend it thoL553[19:24:49] <t20kdc> dequbed: I'd
agree, but Rust's limitations tend to be a lot more... Well, this
is what I mean about the compiler hating people
L554[19:25:12] <t20kdc> dequbed: Like,
it's a lot of "Thing A makes perfect sense on every level
except that the Rust compiler doesn't like it"
L555[19:26:07] <Inari> Because the rust
compiler makes you check for things :P
L556[19:27:05] <bad at
vijya> there will be a small number of "commands" but
w/e
<bad at
vijya> there will be a small number of "commands" but
w/eL557[19:27:32] <dequbed> t20kdc: In my
experience this issue mostly boils down to "replace C-ism
that's not necessarily a dangerous thing with Rust-ism that's
slightly less/more ergonomic and slightly less/more efficient
that's definitely not dangerous". Experience with the language
makes this a much less painful approach.
L558[19:29:02] <dequbed> Like, I've been
writing zero-copy parsing code that just throws around references
to *all* the things with several of those being circular ones and I
get by with very little run-time checking of any of those. Yes, I
have to do it completely differently compared to C but it *is*
possible. And ergonomic.
L559[19:29:19] <bad at
vijya> Izaya: what if you could move the "panes" of
the editor around and sort them and shit
<bad at
vijya> Izaya: what if you could move the "panes" of
the editor around and sort them and shitL560[19:29:35] <bad at
vijya> holy fuck i know what i'm doing with my editor now
<bad at
vijya> holy fuck i know what i'm doing with my editor nowL561[19:29:39] <bad at
vijya> it's big brian time
<bad at
vijya> it's big brian timeL562[19:33:42] <t20kdc> dequbed: I guess
maybe I'm taking "plain" structures too seriously?
Like... thing is, Rust worked absolutely perfectly when I wrote
something to handle Brainfuck ASTs in it. No interior mutability
needed.
L563[19:34:43] <t20kdc> dequbed: But then
the VM part of my little test uses "&mut self". And
looking back on it after hitting a wall with something else, I now
realize that maybe the VM should've had tons of interior mutability
to split access to the tape from access to IO.
L564[19:36:00] <t20kdc> And just been
"& self".
L565[19:36:45] <dequbed> Maybe. I can't
tell if I would have written it differently without looking at your
code. But I *can* say that I have yet to hit a solid wall with Rust
where a small amount of up-front thinking didn't prevent most
issues. Working with the borrow checker and all that. Sometimes it
means having to use locking or message passing where I didn't want
to but most of the time not even that.
L566[19:37:41] <bad at
vijya> if i do finish my editor tho
<bad at
vijya> if i do finish my editor thoL567[19:37:52] <bad at
vijya> i'll totally port it to PsychOS :^)
<bad at
vijya> i'll totally port it to PsychOS :^)L568[19:39:50] <t20kdc> The problem is
knowing about that up-front thinking. Basically I'm thinking of the
situation: "program outputs byte -> IO decides to do
something -> tape overwritten".
L569[19:41:08] <t20kdc> So that implies
that the "pub write: &'io2 mut dyn std::io::Write"
(which is stored in the VM struct) can't acquire a mutable
reference to the VM struct, even though one exists and is being
used to run the VM.
L570[19:42:31] <t20kdc> In this particular
case with only one VM, replacing std::io::Write with some extended
thing would work, but that doesn't extend to any sort of
multiple-VM situation.
L571[19:43:23] <t20kdc> So basically the
only safe option is to make the entire thing
interior-mutable.
L572[19:55:56] <bad at
vijya> SOLARIS TIME
<bad at
vijya> SOLARIS TIMEL573[19:59:24]
⇨ Joins: Backslash
(~Backslash@node-1w7jr9y8ou3iy9ctwm8jqjpuq.ipv6.telus.net)
L574[20:02:37]
⇨ Joins: immibis
(~immibis@dslb-002-205-077-069.002.205.pools.vodafone-ip.de)
L575[20:03:01] <bad at
vijya> can i even fit solaris in 10GB
<bad at
vijya> can i even fit solaris in 10GBL576[20:46:15] <Ocawesome101> hey @DaComputerNerd is the
server you were having issues with running Oracle Java or
OpenJDK?
<Ocawesome101> hey @DaComputerNerd is the
server you were having issues with running Oracle Java or
OpenJDK?L577[20:46:35] <Ocawesome101> apparently oracle java can
cause issues with opencomputers
<Ocawesome101> apparently oracle java can
cause issues with opencomputersL578[20:46:54] <DaComputerNerd> i have no idea
<DaComputerNerd> i have no ideaL579[20:47:29] <Ocawesome101> i'd check that
<Ocawesome101> i'd check thatL580[20:47:41] <DaComputerNerd> it's hosted by a
company
<DaComputerNerd> it's hosted by a
companyL581[20:48:10] <DaComputerNerd> apex?
<DaComputerNerd> apex?L582[20:48:36] <DaComputerNerd> it is running
openjdk
<DaComputerNerd> it is running
openjdkL583[20:48:39] <Ocawesome101> huh
<Ocawesome101> huhL584[20:48:42] <Ocawesome101> jdk8?
<Ocawesome101> jdk8?L585[20:48:53] <DaComputerNerd> presumably
<DaComputerNerd> presumablyL586[20:49:49] <DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132'
<DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132'L587[20:49:53] <DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132
[Edited]
<DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132
[Edited]L588[20:50:07] <DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132
in case edits don't go through right
<DaComputerNerd> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/642884876810321930/745731172746657993/unknown.png?width=699&height=132
in case edits don't go through rightL589[20:50:44] <Ocawesome101> > Oracle
Corporation
<Ocawesome101> > Oracle
CorporationL590[20:50:51] <DaComputerNerd> > OpenJDK
<DaComputerNerd> > OpenJDKL591[20:50:53] <Ocawesome101> why is that in there
🤨
<Ocawesome101> why is that in there
🤨L592[20:51:03] <DaComputerNerd> idk
<DaComputerNerd> idkL593[20:51:09] <DaComputerNerd> it says OpenJDK on it
lol
<DaComputerNerd> it says OpenJDK on it
lolL594[20:51:40] <Ocawesome101> yes it does
<Ocawesome101> yes it doesL595[20:51:52] <Ocawesome101> try a newer patch release
maybe?
<Ocawesome101> try a newer patch release
maybe?L596[20:52:13] <DaComputerNerd> don't think we can
<DaComputerNerd> don't think we canL597[20:52:19] <DaComputerNerd> as said, it's hosted by
apex, not by us
<DaComputerNerd> as said, it's hosted by
apex, not by usL598[20:55:57] ⇦
Quits: rason (~rsngm@178.46.69.32) (Quit: WeeChat 2.9)
L599[21:17:24] ⇦
Quits: flappy (~flappy@88-113-149-197.elisa-laajakaista.fi) (Ping
timeout: 194 seconds)
L600[21:23:49] <CompanionCube> %tonk
L601[21:23:49] <MichiBot> Potzblitz!
CompanionCube! You beat Forecaster's previous record of 1 hour,
38 minutes and 18 seconds (By 2 hours, 56 minutes and 51 seconds)!
I hope you're happy!
L602[21:23:50] <MichiBot> CompanionCube's
new record is 4 hours, 35 minutes and 9 seconds! CompanionCube also
gained 0.0059 (0.00295 x 2) tonk points for stealing the tonk.
Position #2. Need 0.0266764 more points to pass Forecaster!
L603[21:39:46] <Amanda> %8ball commit a
war crime?
L604[21:39:46] <MichiBot> Amanda: Reply
hazy, try again
L605[21:39:52] <Amanda> %8ball commit a
war crime?
L606[21:39:53] <MichiBot> Amanda: Signs
point to yes
L607[21:40:42] <dequbed> Amanda: Are you
playing RimWorld again?
L608[21:41:14] <Amanda> dequbed: nope, SE.
The pirates set up a Civilian Station 5km from my station
L609[21:41:27] <dequbed> Ah, domestic
terrorism then.
L610[21:42:34] <CompanionCube> Amanda:
pirates don't follow the laws of war
L611[21:42:46] <CompanionCube> ergo you
cannot commit war crimes against them
L612[21:43:38] *
CompanionCube is a dirty person for justifying it but such is
life
L613[21:44:33] <dequbed> That is a
terrible justification.
L614[21:45:04] <Forecaster> is that a mod that lets them
do such things
<Forecaster> is that a mod that lets them
do such thingsL615[21:47:18] ⇦
Quits: immibis
(~immibis@dslb-002-205-077-069.002.205.pools.vodafone-ip.de) (Ping
timeout: 189 seconds)
L616[21:48:01] <CompanionCube> dequbed:
tbf the actual IRL position on pirates isn't exactly mutch nicer:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostis_humani_generis
L617[21:48:23] <dequbed> Amanda: If
anything justify yourself with the fact that a) you are not a
nationstate, do not have a codified military and thus can't commit
war crimes b) you didn't sign the Geneva convention in the first
place.
L618[21:49:10]
⇨ Joins: immibis
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L619[21:51:07] <Amanda> I uh. May have
gotten distracted en-route and boopped them https://nc.ddna.co/s/3LKnQrEe3Gfx5X3
L620[21:51:57] <dequbed> CompanionCube: No
it very much is. The non-democratic third-world nation commonly
called the "United" States of America did of course once
again not sign a paper restricting it's ability to shoot and
torture people for any reason whatsoever, BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD
DID SIGN UNCLOS.
L621[21:52:37] ⇦
Quits: Backslash
(~Backslash@node-1w7jr9y8ou3iy9ctwm8jqjpuq.ipv6.telus.net) (Read
error: Connection reset by peer)
L622[21:52:44] <CompanionCube> dequbed:
they like being the odd one out on international agreements don't
they
L623[21:52:52] <CompanionCube> see also:
rights of the child, rome statute
L624[21:53:16] <CompanionCube> last one's
particularly bad given the 'invade the hague' act exists.
L625[21:54:21] <dequbed> CompanionCube:
(TBF, this time around Venezuela, Turkey, Peru, Israel, Eritrea and
a few nations without ocean access didn't sign either. But even
China did.)
L626[21:56:55] <dequbed> I also feel
obligated for posterity to note that the USA is a democracy albeit
flawed and by definition can't be a third-world country.
L627[22:02:12] <CompanionCube> yep, not in
the modern sense and definitely not the cold war one either
:p
L628[22:20:18] <S3> Vijya: Were you able
to compile that?
L629[22:21:39] <S3> dequbed: Don't worry,
we as americans also reserve the right to protect ourselves against
our own government if they invade us (the people)
L630[22:21:51] <S3> hahaha
L631[22:22:59] <S3> If I can get someone
with a successful build on my ocvm fork I'm going to send that PR
in
L632[22:24:05] <CompanionCube> what do you
want?
L633[22:24:09] <bad at
vijya> S3: compile what
<bad at
vijya> S3: compile whatL634[22:24:18] <S3> my ocvm fork
L635[22:24:33] <S3> I just wanted to make
sure I didn't break linux compile on it
L636[22:24:57] <S3> There are some things
I changed that could potentially effect it in the sense that I
replaced commands with variables holding them
L637[22:25:09] <bad at
vijya> not on hauku
<bad at
vijya> not on haukuL638[22:25:12] <bad at
vijya> *haiku
<bad at
vijya> *haikuL639[22:25:17] <bad at
vijya> but that could have been my install being
<bad at
vijya> but that could have been my install beingL640[22:25:18] <bad at
vijya> weird
<bad at
vijya> weirdL641[22:25:32] <S3> It should build on
Haiku too
L642[22:33:13] <S3> I submitted it
anyways
L643[22:33:22] <S3> https://github.com/payonel/ocvm/pull/46
L644[22:33:41] <S3> CompanionCube: it's
fancy
L645[22:34:34] <bad at
vijya> lupi now has a newer kernel than my actual debian
install
<bad at
vijya> lupi now has a newer kernel than my actual debian
installL646[22:34:44] <bad at
vijya> dog bless
<bad at
vijya> dog blessL647[22:53:04] <S3> Vijya: Where is your
tiny compression / decompression thing for eeproms?
L648[22:53:19] <S3> I think I figured out
how I am going to handle configs
L649[23:07:06] <S3> Also, two ways to
handle images, hex files or b64 files, the hex files would look
like this:
L650[23:07:12] <S3> https://paste.pc-logix.com/ufuhuwozaz.txt
L651[23:07:23] <S3> The problem with b64
is that b64 files don't align very well to base 2
L652[23:07:44] <bad at
vijya> oh
<bad at
vijya> ohL653[23:07:45] <bad at
vijya> uh
<bad at
vijya> uhL654[23:07:52] <bad at
vijya> i only have tiny decompression
<bad at
vijya> i only have tiny decompressionL655[23:08:09] <S3> so how do you compress
it
L656[23:08:32] <S3> I was thinking I could
make my flasher automatically stamp the decompressor in it
L657[23:08:36] <S3> as an option for self
decompressing
L658[23:09:01] <bad at
vijya> ah so
<bad at
vijya> ah soL659[23:09:08] <bad at
vijya> uh
<bad at
vijya> uhL660[23:09:16] <bad at
vijya> lemme reverse engineer my build scripts
<bad at
vijya> lemme reverse engineer my build scriptsL661[23:09:44] <S3> also about my flash
files for fast flashing and dumping do you prefer a hex style or
base64 style
L662[23:10:02] <S3> the hex style has an
advantage that every record in the table is exactly 32 bytes
L663[23:11:58] <S3> this hex format in
particular is just a lua library that returns a table of { bss =
{}, data = {} }
L664[23:12:10] <S3> where bss is the code
section and data is the data section of the oc eeprom
L665[23:14:40] <Forecaster> %sip
<Forecaster> %sipL666[23:14:41] <MichiBot> You drink a
molten octiron potion (New!). The bottle turns into a piece of
bacon. Forecaster has found 1 piece of bacon so far.
L667[23:14:49] <Forecaster> Woo
<Forecaster> WooL668[23:15:23] <S3> I think that's the
luckiest I've ever seen Forecaster
L669[23:15:25] <S3> so far
L670[23:16:39] <Forecaster> I have found bacon
before
<Forecaster> I have found bacon
beforeL671[23:18:23] <CompanionCube> %loot
L672[23:18:23] <MichiBot> CompanionCube:
You get a loot box! It contains a deed for a bridge. (Junk)
L673[23:18:36] <CompanionCube> i've got a
bridge to sell someone, literally
L674[23:20:06] <bad at
vijya> linux not detecting my fuckin hdc ffs
<bad at
vijya> linux not detecting my fuckin hdc ffsL675[23:20:14] <bad at
vijya> might have to do some crack filled shit
<bad at
vijya> might have to do some crack filled shitL676[23:20:24] <CompanionCube> rip
hdc
L677[23:20:38] <bad at
vijya> well
<bad at
vijya> wellL678[23:20:40] <bad at
vijya> this is lupi
<bad at
vijya> this is lupiL679[23:22:30] <bad at
vijya> uuugh
<bad at
vijya> uuughL680[23:46:35] <bad at
vijya> turns out
<bad at
vijya> turns outL681[23:46:38] <bad at
vijya> the lupi kernel
<bad at
vijya> the lupi kernelL682[23:46:43] <bad at
vijya> didn't have generic ATA drivers enabled
<bad at
vijya> didn't have generic ATA drivers enabledL683[23:46:45] <bad at
vijya> because
<bad at
vijya> becauseL684[23:46:47] <bad at
vijya> uh
<bad at
vijya> uhL685[23:46:49] <bad at
vijya> idfk
<bad at
vijya> idfkL686[23:52:03] ⇦
Quits: t20kdc
(~20kdc@cpc139340-aztw33-2-0-cust225.18-1.cable.virginm.net)
(Remote host closed the connection)
L687[23:52:48] <Izaya> because it's
designed for the RPi?
L688[23:53:25] <CompanionCube> yeah who
the fuck would use ATA on the rpi
L689[23:53:56] <bad at
vijya> w/e ¯\(ツ)/¯
<bad at
vijya> w/e ¯\(ツ)/¯L690[23:54:10] <bad at
vijya> oH BOY
<bad at
vijya> oH BOYL691[23:54:13] <Izaya> maybe not on the
RPi but if you wanna use LuPi on a thin client like I wanna
L692[23:54:16] <bad at
vijya> STILL DOESN'T DETECT THE FUCKING HDD
<bad at
vijya> STILL DOESN'T DETECT THE FUCKING HDDL693[23:54:20] <Izaya> oh no
L694[23:54:25] <Izaya> I just had an
exceedingly cursed idea
L695[23:54:28] <bad at
vijya> debian does
<bad at
vijya> debian doesL696[23:54:32] <bad at
vijya> obviously
<bad at
vijya> obviouslyL697[23:54:37] <Izaya> I have a NAS with a
64M flash DOM
L698[23:54:38] <bad at
vijya> this is the pc with 4 OSes installed
<bad at
vijya> this is the pc with 4 OSes installedL699[23:54:43] <bad at
vijya> going on 6
<bad at
vijya> going on 6L700[23:54:44] <CompanionCube> https://twitter.com/nickmartin/status/1296160074159726592
...
L701[23:54:44] <MichiBot> Wed Aug 19
12:00:17 PDT 2020 @nickmartin: 1. NEW: Facebook announced today it
is cracking down on three types of groups:
L702[23:55:01] <Izaya> can you think of
any better device for use as an OC machine?
L703[23:55:40] <Izaya> 64M flash, 512M
RAM, 3 SATA bays
L704[23:55:42]
⇨ Joins: ben_mkiv
(~ben_mkiv@i59F678ED.versanet.de)
L705[23:55:56] <CompanionCube> sweet
L706[23:56:08] <Izaya> no native video
out
L707[23:56:15] <Izaya> but I can solder on
a VGA connector easily enough
L708[23:56:18] <Izaya> has gigabit
ethernet though
L709[23:56:31] <Skye> ono
L710[23:56:51] <bad at
vijya> [extreme rage]
<bad at
vijya> [extreme rage]L711[23:56:57] <bad at
vijya> why the FUCK do the hdc not work
<bad at
vijya> why the FUCK do the hdc not workL712[23:58:26] <Izaya> I wonder what the
smallest potato machine with a floppy drive I can find is
L713[23:58:49] <Izaya> imagine a tiny
pentium 3 machine with like, 64M of RAM and a 1GB HDD, plus a
floppy drive
L714[23:58:55] <Izaya> put a little LCD on
top
L715[23:59:29] <Izaya> actually
L716[23:59:31] <Izaya> even better
idea
L717[23:59:37] <Izaya> what if I turned my
eMac into an OC machine
L718[23:59:53] <Izaya> 800Mhz PowerlessPC
G4, 128M of RAM, 20GB of HDD