OCLogs: 2019-04-20.log

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L1[00:36:31] <Izaya> .tell t20kdc how are you sorting screen resolutions and stuff

L2[00:36:40] <Mimiru> % :P

L3[00:37:25] <Izaya> aaa

L4[00:37:27] <Izaya> %tell t20kdc how are you sorting screen resolutions and stuff

L5[00:37:27] <MichiBot> Izaya: t20kdc will be notified of this message when next seen.

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L8[00:44:48] <Izaya> ~w component:filesystem

L9[00:44:48] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:filesystem

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L11[01:03:10] <Izaya> neat, I could register a handler to dynamically add and remove terminals :D

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L13[01:21:31] <Kleadron> %scream

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L20[03:34:17]

<McMaartenz> Help??? http://tinyurl.com/y6olvuhg

L21[03:40:34]

<Bob> i have no idea, the font seems changed

L22[03:40:51]

<Bob> had an issue where the font was being smoothed using bicubic

L23[03:40:55]

<Bob> i was bleeding from my eyes

L24[04:00:40] <Izaya> https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/beykcf/linvam_linux_based_voice_activated_macro_tool/

L25[04:01:01] <Izaya> Hell yeah I don't have to try to make VoiceAttack work under WINE

L26[04:22:49] ⇨ Joins: Vexatos (Vexatos!~Vexatos@p200300C1072F5F72CB91AF3053C45022.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)

L27[04:22:49] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos

L28[04:24:28]

<Forecaster> %potion

L29[04:24:29] <MichiBot> Forecaster: You get a prickly ocean potion (New!)

L30[04:24:33]

<Forecaster> %sip ^

L31[04:24:33] <MichiBot> Forecaster's favourite hat is suddenly on fire.

L32[04:24:37]

<Forecaster> aw

L33[04:24:44]

<Forecaster> This is fine.

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L36[04:58:39] <Skye> %potion

L37[04:58:39] <MichiBot> Skye: You get a freezing tan potion (New!)

L38[04:58:42] <Skye> %drink

L39[04:58:43] <MichiBot> Drink what?

L40[04:58:51] <Skye> %drink ^

L41[04:58:51] <MichiBot> The potion contained a computer virus! It just changed your background...

L42[04:59:00]

<Bob> o no

L43[04:59:03]

<Bob> pure evil

L44[05:19:11] <Inari> %potion

L45[05:19:11] <MichiBot> Inari: You get a thick white potion (New!)

L46[05:19:12] <Inari> %drink ^

L47[05:19:13] <MichiBot> Inari has no memory of drinking a potion.

L48[05:27:56] <Inari> %potion

L49[05:27:56] <MichiBot> Inari: You get a porous lime potion (New!)

L50[05:27:57] <Inari> %drink ^

L51[05:27:58] <MichiBot> When you bring the bottle down you see a aqua colored plastic flamingo. It stares into your soul.

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L54[06:15:01]

<Forecaster> "a aqua"...

L55[06:15:13]

<Forecaster> Might need prefixes for the colors

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L57[06:49:32] <S3> dafuq is vex a toast

L58[07:06:45]

<Forecaster> It's when you taunt a piece of toast in a perplexing fashion

L59[07:07:07] <S3> Ok. I think I'm going to retire my ZNC stuff off of that server

L60[07:07:12] <S3> it's being a poop

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L64[07:53:39] <Inari> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/372088760868929546/568911292937535507/jqx2d51mu8t21.png

L65[07:57:59]

<Z0idburg> well this strip reads like a tv show I've seen before...

L66[08:03:18] <Vexatos> S3, what D:

L67[08:03:56]

<Rph> https://microsoft-is-an.extremely-bad.company/05cbb17ae5Xx511KlWMxC.png existential pain is getting extreme

L68[08:04:37] <Izaya> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Otv3HyFFYrA

L69[08:04:38] <MichiBot> Linux Mint and Manjaro? on a Special Day? | length: 12m 35s | Likes: 529 Dislikes: 7 Views: 3,745 | by Druaga1 | Published On 20/4/2019

L70[08:09:15] <S3> oh hi Vexatos !

L71[08:09:19] <S3> I was studying Selene

L72[08:09:53] <S3> I think I've discovered how pattern matching could work

L73[08:10:41] <S3> lambdas are already in the form of paramlist -> body

L74[08:11:17] <S3> so the parameters can be distinguished easily. All that is needed is a way to handle the matching which is the simple part. So here's what I thought of

L75[08:11:27] <S3> the first thing I thought about is overriding the = operator

L76[08:11:43] <S3> for example, if we do x = 5

L77[08:12:00] <S3> it should be x = 5 in lua, that's absoluteley normal, nothing special should happen

L78[08:12:27] <S3> but, if we use a known value, or a constant value such as 5 = x

L79[08:12:36] <S3> an error should be thrown if x is not 5

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L82[08:13:29] <S3> it gets more complicated from here.

L83[08:14:20] <S3> the = should return something if it pattern matches successfully. 5 = x should return 5 if x is 5, this allows you to do something like x -> 5 = x

L84[08:14:27] <S3> where the lambda will throw an error if x is not 5

L85[08:14:50] <S3> it should work with lists too

L86[08:15:21] <S3> {"one", "two", "three"} = {"one", "two", "three"} should match on both sides, returning {"one", "two", "three"}, r an error

L87[08:15:24] <S3> OR

L88[08:15:58] <S3> if I do {a, b, "three"} = {"one", "two", "three"} it would return {"one", "two", "three"} and a would be a variable that equals "one", and b would have "two"

L89[08:17:14] <S3> the final half of pattern matching is that function parameters could be matched. So this is what I thought of. I like shorthand function declarations, so I came up with a shorthand for function() that could be used to tell Selene you were creating a pattern matched function. the form of this is fn NAME LAMBDA

L90[08:17:20] <S3> example:

L91[08:17:30] <S3> fn x -> x * 2 end

L92[08:18:15] <S3> when defining a function like this it actually creates a wrapper function and stores the body part elsewhere

L93[08:18:39] <S3> this way we can define more than one function of the same name, and every time we call it it loops through until it finds a match

L94[08:18:44] <S3> this allows us to do this:

L95[08:19:10] <S3> fn gcd a, 0 -> math.abs(a) end

L96[08:20:06] <S3> gcd a, b -> gcd(b, a % b) end

L97[08:20:11] <S3> er sorry...

L98[08:20:18] <S3> fn gcd a, b -> gcd(b, a % b) end

L99[08:20:26] <S3> Vexatos ^

L100[08:21:05] <S3> most of all of this can be done inline without any special runtime I think, up to function params, etc.

L101[08:22:08] <Temia> https://twitter.com/s1120411/status/1119213514168524803 Inari

L102[08:22:09] <MichiBot> Fri Apr 19 07:17:50 CDT 2019 @s1120411: Cat and dog colleagues~ <https://t.co/kISnu4mlL9>

L103[08:23:46]

<Rph> My 400GB+ backup process involves a few minecraft servers which have open computers... Downloading a ton of tiny files over sftp is the bane of my existence

L104[08:23:54]

<Rph> Especially when people had like 1000 copies of mineos

L105[08:24:05] <S3> rsync

L106[08:24:22]

<Rph> nah, I probably would have tar.gz on the server

L107[08:24:25]

<Rph> and then downloaded that

L108[08:24:27]

<Rph> and unpacked locally

L109[08:24:37]

<Rph> but oh well, I am doing this already and stopping the download now would be dumb

L110[08:24:44] <S3> lol

L111[08:24:50] <AmandaC> Is reync optimized for lots of small files?

L112[08:25:10]

<Rph> filezilla is still adding files to the queue

L113[08:25:16]

<Rph> but I've already downloaded over 50 GB

L114[08:25:21] <AmandaC> I mean, there would still be the vfs overhead of that, but no real way to avoid yhat

L115[08:25:31] <S3> what's your blocksize btw

L116[08:25:32] <S3> rph

L117[08:25:36]

<Rph> i have no idea

L118[08:26:19] <S3> if you know ahead of time you're going to have a lot of small files, you can actually decrease the block size when you format the filesystem. It's been a reccomendation for many years but most people don't worry about it

L119[08:26:26] <S3> the default for ext type filesystems is 4K

L120[08:26:28] <S3> I believe

L121[08:26:45] <S3> so if you have a file that is 100 bytes it takes 4K on disk not counting other overhead

L122[08:26:52]

<Rph> this server is ext4 yes

L123[08:26:54] <S3> but ext I think can be set down to 1K

L124[08:26:55]

<Rph> but it has a 2 TB hard drive

L125[08:26:59]

<Rph> so I don't worry about it that much

L126[08:27:08] <S3> maybe even 512B

L127[08:27:36] <S3> 4K is a nice average size for block data at least 10 years ago

L128[08:27:45]

<Rph> Honestly - I don't care about low level optimizations that much

L129[08:27:48] <S3> today it may be more like 64K or more for the average person

L130[08:28:00]

<Rph> on a large enough drive, the difference between 2 KB and 4 KB won't be that big

L131[08:28:06] <Temia> https://twitter.com/s1120411/status/1033335965773778944 Amanda

L132[08:28:07] <MichiBot> Sat Aug 25 07:51:07 CDT 2018 @s1120411: A black cat girl~ <https://t.co/jTp0yQKQ4S>

L133[08:28:07]

<Rph> especially when most files are bigger than that anyway

L134[08:28:14] <S3> it determines your maximum file count

L135[08:28:32] <S3> also it adjusts your inode limitation in corrdinance with disk space too on some filesystems

L136[08:28:32] <Izaya> S3: more modern file systems allow including files smaller than the block size in directory indexes

L137[08:28:33]

<Rph> I don't have *that* many files to worry about this

L138[08:28:39] <S3> heh

L139[08:28:47] <S3> I remember this one time I ran out of inodes on FreeBSD

L140[08:28:49] <S3> that was not fun

L141[08:28:51] <S3> with UFS

L142[08:29:19] <S3> Izaya: Honestly I think it's extremely bad practice to use variably sized block allocation

L143[08:29:23] <Izaya> I love that there are like 8 different versions of UFW

L144[08:29:29] <S3> some filesystems allow you to do that

L145[08:29:34] <Izaya> UFS*

L146[08:29:48] <S3> yes UFS has had a lot of history

L147[08:29:50] <S3> I still use it

L148[08:30:14] <S3> it's a great alternative to ZFS when you don't need to group disks and you don't need to waste excess RAM

L149[08:30:20] <S3> on BSD systems

L150[08:30:35] <Izaya> >z-fighting in anime

L151[08:30:38] * Izaya screams

L152[08:30:42] <S3> lol

L153[08:31:30] <S3> I need to work on my filesystem

L154[08:31:50] <S3> I discovered some drawbacks to my design using consistent hashing and I need to fix that

L155[08:32:31] <Temia> Z-fighting in anime?!

L156[08:32:44] <Temia> H-how

L157[08:32:46] <Temia> What

L158[08:32:56] <Izaya> conspicuous 3D models

L159[08:33:00] <Temia> oof.

L160[08:33:37] <Izaya> was only a short shot but I've been playing a lot of games with mildly broken renderers so I notice this stuff

L161[08:34:25] <Temia> Reminds me of how Mabinogi had floating point imprecision problems on large maps...

L162[08:34:40] <Izaya> finally managed to tune x265 to record without totally killing my framerate in Metro Exodus

L163[08:34:58]

<Rph> couldn't you use hardware encoding instead?

L164[08:35:05] <Izaya> normally, yes

L165[08:35:09]

<Rph> (well that depends what purpose you are recording with)

L166[08:35:19] <Izaya> but the card I have doesn't actually support hardware encoding, only decoding

L167[08:35:20]

<Rph> for youtube, stock NVENC/Amd's equivalent settings are perfectly fine

L168[08:35:23]

<Rph> oh

L169[08:35:25]

<Rph> what card\

L170[08:35:26]

<Rph> what card [Edited]

L171[08:35:28] <Izaya> RX 580

L172[08:35:37] <Izaya> or maybe it's the mesa libs

L173[08:35:39] * Izaya shrugs

L174[08:35:39]

<Z0idburg> youtube needs to let me upload faster

L175[08:35:42]

<Rph> hmmm

L176[08:35:44]

<Z0idburg> I want 1 gbit upload

L177[08:35:46]

<Rph> are you on linux?

L178[08:35:52] <Izaya> anyway, using VAAPI makes the recording and stream choppy as

L179[08:35:54] <Izaya> of course

L180[08:36:10] <Izaya> ergo, x265 on the CPU, which means I get better quality anyway

L181[08:36:30]

<Rph> hmmm

L182[08:36:40]

<Rph> I have a novideo card and so I never had any issues with hardware encoding

L183[08:36:41] <Izaya> https://files.catbox.moe/4w6ykr.webm [quality is higher as the source file I ripped this from]

L184[08:37:01] <Izaya> yeah neither, but 4GB of VRAM was killing me so I figured I might as well go AMD for better driver support

L185[08:37:10]

<Rph> hmm

L186[08:37:14] <Izaya> also it was $200 so :D

L187[08:37:24]

<Rph> I bought a used GTX 1070 for about that much

L188[08:37:34]

<Rph> to be fair, it was probably removed from some coin mining rig

L189[08:37:35] <Lizzy> i only realised after i finished streaming lastnight that i coulld have told obs to use VAAPI which would have allowed more cpu time for the windows vm and vr

L190[08:37:36]

<Rph> but it works

L191[08:37:39]

<Z0idburg> MATROX! Just all the monitors

L192[08:37:45]

<Z0idburg> all of the monitors

L193[08:38:01] <Izaya> I was considering a used RX 580 but eh, for that price I figured I'd get a new one

L194[08:38:07]

<Rph> hmm

L195[08:38:10] <Inari> I wonder how Z-fighting actually works

L196[08:38:33]

<Rph> Someone on a different discord posted their video recording/streaming setup

L197[08:38:37]

<Rph> and it was basically 2 computers

L198[08:38:45]

<Rph> each one had a generic gigabit and a 10 gigabit network card

L199[08:38:58] <Izaya> oh man I heard about something like this

L200[08:39:03]

<Rph> the computer playing the game did some very basic compression and pushed it over the 10 gigabit card to the other computer

L201[08:39:04]

<Z0idburg> well Inari when object a and object b love eachother very very much

L202[08:39:07]

<Z0idburg> and they get very very close

L203[08:39:09]

<Rph> which dedicated all its CPU time just to encoding the video

L204[08:39:14] <Izaya> they did some fun stuff to send the video straight over

L205[08:39:14]

<Rph> in as crispy quality as possible

L206[08:39:21]

<Rph> and then pushing it to twitch over the standard gigabit card

L207[08:39:25] * Izaya nods

L208[08:39:42] <Inari> Like I get it happens when two objects are at the same point, or very close to that. And I get it's because the renderer can't decide which to show or something. But how does it actually happen? Why does it show up in stripes instead of pixels? How come one objects can be above the other sometimes but other times not? etc

L209[08:39:57] <Izaya> Inari: floating point errors, most likely

L210[08:40:08] <Inari> Izaya: Wouldn't those be determnistic

L211[08:40:15]

<Forecaster> It's like an ant war

L212[08:40:18]

<Z0idburg> We should get rid of floating point

L213[08:40:20] <Inari> As in, they'd error in the same way

L214[08:40:24] <Inari> Preferring one objects all the time

L215[08:40:27]

<Z0idburg> it was a bad idea that should never have been invented

L216[08:40:27]

<Forecaster> Each pixel has to fight to the death

L217[08:40:30] <Izaya> yes, but if you had object x and object y with different base points the errors would be different

L218[08:40:40] <Inari> Hmm

L219[08:40:41] <Inari> True

L220[08:40:44] <Inari> Izaya: But still

L221[08:40:53] <Izaya> I don't really know, but that's my best guess

L222[08:40:54] <Inari> They'd be the same errors for both objects, all the time

L223[08:41:00]

<Rph> don't modern GPUs have some super fancy solutions to z-fighting?

L224[08:41:01] <Inari> So it feels like one objects shsould always win out

L225[08:41:24]

<Rph> or am I completely wrong

L226[08:41:36]

<Z0idburg> don't forget

L227[08:41:40]

<Z0idburg> Z-fighting in your 3D print

L228[08:41:58]

<Rph> I mean, most 3D prints are done with the same material

L229[08:42:15] <Lizzy> i think i might stream some more beatsaber tonight and test out using the VAAPI with obs to see if it has decent quality and also allows me to not have a lot of cpu usage for encoding

L230[08:42:17]

<Rph> so z fighting *probably* would be removed at some point where it generates layers to send them to the printer

L231[08:42:27]

<Z0idburg> yeah

L232[08:42:37]

<Rph> it will just look ugly as shit in your 3D editing software

L233[08:42:57] <Izaya> Lizzy: if you want some tuning flags for x264 I have some, but if you get VAAPI working well I'm interested

L234[08:42:59]

<Z0idburg> I've been working on some stuff with a mechanical engineer though and we've realized that even in engineering, floating point numbers are unnecessary

L235[08:43:12]

<Rph> hmm

L236[08:43:29]

<Rph> they add computational complexity

L237[08:43:32]

<Rph> to operations

L238[08:43:32]

<Z0idburg> yes

L239[08:43:39]

<Z0idburg> a lot actually

L240[08:43:40]

<Rph> you can just use higher precision ints

L241[08:43:47]

<Rph> (like, smaller grid size, bigger values)

L242[08:44:10]

<Rph> and you will probably achieve a simmilar result

L243[08:44:24]

<Rph> at a lower compute cost because all your CPU does is add/subtract some numbers

L244[08:44:29]

<Z0idburg> pretty much. this is what we've gotten to. We've realized in application specific purposes you can represent things in engineering notation or something without floating point systems just fine and perform math on them

L245[08:44:41] <Lizzy> Izaya, i did a test last night (mind you, it was with the bandwidth test mode on so idk how the quality would be) and it seemed to "work" and produce about the same bitrate as x264 itself

L246[08:44:45]

<Z0idburg> the numbers stay small

L247[08:44:48]

<Z0idburg> the algroithms remain fast

L248[08:44:57] <Izaya> Lizzy: the issue I have is that the output is much choppier than the input

L249[08:45:13] <Izaya> seems to get stuck a lot even with high bandwidth

L250[08:45:19] <Lizzy> hmm, idk

L251[08:45:28]

<Z0idburg> and there's some cases where high precision is necessary but most of us agree that you never need more than 3-4 places after the decimal point

L252[08:45:37]

<Z0idburg> anything more than that is usually useless

L253[08:45:39]

<Rph> well

L254[08:46:00]

<Rph> if your unit is a centimeter

L255[08:46:06]

<Rph> you will probably need to only go to micrometers

L256[08:46:11]

<Rph> which is 3-4 places after the decimal point

L257[08:46:12] <Izaya> >engineering >not working in mm

L258[08:46:19] <Lizzy> the main issue i had was obs on linux was using whatever it could (since it has "access" to the whole cpu) but it was impacting windows' performance which then caused issues in beatsaber with tracking and stuff

L259[08:46:23]

<Rph> (I hope you don't use imperial units in engineering)

L260[08:46:39]

<Z0idburg> lol centimeters have to be the most useless unit other than giving something you can visually guess as a human

L261[08:47:02]

<Z0idburg> that may be why it was invented... hmm

L262[08:47:09]

<Rph> well

L263[08:47:14]

<Rph> I just gave an example

L264[08:47:23] <Izaya> eh, keeps the numbering relatively consistent

L265[08:47:34]

<Rph> technically a meter is the base unit

L266[08:47:36]

<Rph> soo

L267[08:47:44]

<Z0idburg> though centimeters aren't hard to represent in milimeters

L268[08:47:50] <Inari> I wonder if theres a video codec that detects repeating sequences of pixels in frames and just tells hte decoder to "keep repeating this particualr thing"

L269[08:48:12]

<Rph> Don't most codecs already do that?

L270[08:48:44]

<Rph> Like compressing keyframes with regular image codecs which can do what you described

L271[08:48:46] <Izaya> ye it's zero work to convert them so cm vs mm is just whether you want it better for working with humans or being precise

L272[08:49:09]

<Z0idburg> so first of all there's like 20 metric prefixes most of them you will never even use. you could get away with a 4 bit exponent part

L273[08:49:41]

<Rph> Those metric prefixes just tell you by how much to multiply or divide the value to get it in meters tho

L274[08:49:53]

<Z0idburg> and the best thing about the engineering exponents is that you can wait to convert until you're done

L275[08:50:08]

<Z0idburg> unless you're comparing two different prefixes

L276[08:50:24]

<Rph> Well then you normalise them to either

L277[08:50:35]

<Z0idburg> right, but what I mean is

L278[08:50:39]

<Rph> Like when comparing cm and mm you just make the cm be a mm

L279[08:50:46]

<Rph> Better than comparing, say, inches and feet

L280[08:50:52]

<Z0idburg> imagine you have an 8 bit wordsize computer

L281[08:50:56]

<Z0idburg> er

L282[08:51:00] <Inari> I still want a tag-based filesystem on windows

L283[08:51:08]

<Z0idburg> 32 bit lets go with 32 bit

L284[08:51:10]

<Forecaster> %tonk

L285[08:51:10] <MichiBot> Jiminy Cricket! Forecaster! You beat Lizzy's previous record of 5 hours, 46 minutes and 34 seconds (By 4 hours, 52 minutes and 47 seconds)! I hope you're happy!

L286[08:51:11] <MichiBot> Forecaster's new record is 10 hours, 39 minutes and 22 seconds! Forecaster also gained 0.02928 (0.00488 x 6) tonk points for stealing the tonk.

L287[08:51:39]

<Z0idburg> AH

L288[08:51:40]

<Forecaster> %potion

L289[08:51:40] <MichiBot> Forecaster: You get a goopy lime potion (New!)

L290[08:51:40]

<Z0idburg> I see

L291[08:51:43]

<Rph> Well in that case it gets a bit trickier, however most compilers should be capable of imitating higher bit counts at the expense of CPU time

L292[08:51:44]

<Z0idburg> I just realized something

L293[08:51:50]

<Forecaster> %sip ^

L294[08:51:50] <MichiBot> Forecaster feels slightly stronger.

L295[08:51:56]

<Rph> Sip???

L296[08:52:17] <AmandaC> Inari: z fighting probably is deterministic on static models, with a static camera. One or both moving is what causes the errors

L297[08:52:24] <Izaya> sipp

L298[08:53:05] <Inari> AmandaC: Hmm it's sort of determnisitc in that way. I only see the stripes changes when the camera moves (or the objects do). But in a single static frame you still see different objects fighting

L299[08:53:06]

<Forecaster> zip

L300[08:55:20]

<Z0idburg> so if the hardware was friendly.. Check this out Rph

L301[08:55:52]

<Z0idburg> 5 bits for the exponent part, which is multiplied by 3

L302[08:56:02]

<Z0idburg> so 00000 = nothing

L303[08:56:04]

<Z0idburg> thats your base

L304[08:56:11]

<Z0idburg> 00001 = ^ 3

L305[08:56:22]

<Z0idburg> this part is signed

L306[08:56:31]

<Z0idburg> so it's from -15 to 15

L307[08:56:43]

<Z0idburg> which goes far above 24 so more than you ever need

L308[08:56:57]

<Z0idburg> on a 16 bit machine we have an additional 3 bits + 8 more

L309[08:57:17]

<Z0idburg> which gives us more than 999.

L310[08:57:21]

<Z0idburg> we only need to go up to 999

L311[08:58:37]

<Z0idburg> so if we want 5 kilometers, the bits would be 0000100000000101

L312[08:59:24]

<Z0idburg> 256 meters: 0000000100000000

L313[09:00:12]

<Z0idburg> This is helpful; if we need to compare separate prefixes, we can use a 16 bit number to temporarily hold the large value

L314[09:00:19]

<Z0idburg> or part of it

L315[09:00:23]

<Z0idburg> and then process them then convert back

L316[09:00:48]

<Z0idburg> like if you're dividing two numberds in different prefixes that is

L317[09:01:26] <Inari> Hardware should natively support big nums

L318[09:02:05]

<Z0idburg> well I think the reason why it isn't done this way is because a larg enumber of people out there don't want to fixate themselves on fractions of 10000

L319[09:02:30]

<Z0idburg> In that case, that's fine, instead of wasting our time with stupid generic floating point to use for all of those

L320[09:02:54]

<Z0idburg> imo there should be different approaches to each system

L321[09:03:27]

<Z0idburg> example in the US for carpentry drafting of houses, etc it makes sense to have a custom fractional binary system based off of US units

L322[09:05:44]

<Z0idburg> what floating point does is base everthing off fractional numbers that lose information which is a very performance hungry way to do it.

L323[09:07:05]

<Z0idburg> In my engineering notation system at least for metric purposes, if you want to express something like 123.456 Kilobytes, instead of using some crazy generic floating point number you would use two 16 bit engineering notated numbers, you'd have a 32 bit number

L324[09:07:17]

<Z0idburg> if you need more precision then you would just add 16 bits for every one

L325[09:07:45]

<Z0idburg> because in engineering notation you can just add them because the exponents keep every 3 digits separate

L326[09:08:12]

<Z0idburg> granted for hardware math on it you will want to have specialized adders, etc

L327[09:08:16]

<Z0idburg> but floating point already has that too

L328[09:08:41]

<Z0idburg> But the point is processing performance should be much better

L329[09:12:44]

<Z0idburg> US units are generally based on multiples of 2 up until you work with thousanths

L330[09:12:57]

<Z0idburg> 1 2 4 8 16 32.. etc

L331[09:13:18]

<Z0idburg> so mostly using binary's natural asociation with that is handy for US number representation

L332[09:13:45]

<Z0idburg> just having a binary number representing how many bits to shift.. for example

L333[09:13:52]

<Z0idburg> for the exponent style part

L334[09:16:14]

<Z0idburg> The problem lies where some measurements are not multiples of two. for example- cooking

L335[09:16:32]

<Z0idburg> what if you have to add multiples of 1/3 of a cup together

L336[09:17:30]

<Z0idburg> I think at this point we just need a better method of representing general fractions that are unsigned.

L337[09:32:04] <Inari> https://www.exocomics.com/wp-content/uploads/560.jpg AmandaC at dinner

L338[09:38:10]

<Z0idburg> So I realized Izaya

L339[09:39:00]

<Z0idburg> 1 AU in my system is 149E9 + 600E6, or 0100100010010101 and 0011001001011000, which like I said you just smush them together, the 32 bit number: 01001000100101010011001001011000

L340[09:39:32]

<Z0idburg> What do you think, Rph?

L341[09:41:00] <S3> hm

L342[09:46:31]

<Zef> guys do you like my regedit http://tinyurl.com/y475ymuc

L343[09:47:36] <Skye> from what I can tell, floating point numbers remind me of a level physics

L344[09:48:38] <Skye> "calculate with as much precision as possible, but as you're rounding at the end it doesn't matter if you calculate with g=9.81 or pi=3.14"

L345[09:49:14] <Skye> so the fact that there is a limit and there are rounding errors doesn't matter because you're gonna be rounding it anyway

L346[09:49:37]

<Zef> doesn't nasa only use 27 digits of pi?

L347[09:50:11]

<Z0idburg> probably

L348[09:50:16]

<Z0idburg> Probably not even

L349[09:51:03]

<Z0idburg> 27 digits is the point where any more accuracy is pretty much subatomic precision

L350[09:51:55]

<Z0idburg> you're right Skye, but it's extremely heavy on hardware

L351[09:52:46]

<Z0idburg> tbh 6 digits of pi is probably all you need even for a rocket launch

L352[09:59:02] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg the conductive glue came in, waiting for it to dry for the componentI just beta-tested it with now

L353[09:59:27]

<Z0idburg> says on one reference 15 digits is what some use to navigate between planets

L354[09:59:28]

<Z0idburg> OOH

L355[09:59:43]

<Z0idburg> fast drying?

L356[10:00:02] <AmandaC> No clue, and I can't fin dthe packaging now that I went and tore it open. :d

L357[10:01:10] <AmandaC> "cure overnight" so, no

L358[10:01:36] <AmandaC> %8ball be reckless?

L359[10:01:36] <MichiBot> AmandaC: Without a doubt

L360[10:02:24] <Inari> AmandaC: might as well have just orered solder and an iron :D

L361[10:04:21]

<Z0idburg> HEY!

L362[10:04:23]

<Z0idburg> I found it

L363[10:04:25]

<Z0idburg> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mr8JkT6i-zw

L364[10:04:26] <MichiBot> Cat opening package | length: 52s | Likes: 1 Dislikes: 0 Views: 42 | by Lena Prickett | Published On 24/12/2013

L365[10:05:27]

<ayangd> Hi everybody!

L366[10:06:05]

<ayangd> I've been running into some struggle where I need to count all the raw ingredients within a tree of crafting

L367[10:06:20]

<ayangd> Concept http://tinyurl.com/y6fds3uz

L368[10:06:53]

<ayangd> Does anybody know what is the most effective process?

L369[10:06:54]

<Z0idburg> Zef, 15 decimal places of pi for a 10 billion mile wide planet is like 1.5 inches of acuracy loss

L370[10:06:57]

<Z0idburg> or something ridiculous

L371[10:07:17]

<Z0idburg> sorry

L372[10:07:19]

<Z0idburg> 78 billion

L373[10:07:35]

<Z0idburg> I forget what it said, it was a massive number

L374[10:07:40]

<Z0idburg> and such a fractional loss

L375[10:07:44]

<ayangd> Say that I'm counting all raw ingredients of building a ladder

L376[10:08:00]

<Z0idburg> ok.

L377[10:08:18]

<Z0idburg> lemme look at your think here Ayangd because this sounds like something I did with IC2 BC and Redpower back in the day

L378[10:08:45]

<Z0idburg> yes it is

L379[10:08:54]

<Zef> I remember hearing that with however many digits of pi they use they could calculate the size of the sun with like 1 hydrogen atom of error

L380[10:09:29]

<Z0idburg> so yes ayangd, what you want is a recursive database.

L381[10:09:38]

<ayangd> Yes

L382[10:09:58]

<Z0idburg> I've actually have done this

L383[10:10:01]

<Z0idburg> years ago

L384[10:10:06]

<Z0idburg> so lets say you want to make a ladder

L385[10:11:13]

<Z0idburg> you first need to teach the system how a ladder is made. fortinately this is easy. an bject has two parts

L386[10:11:28]

<Z0idburg> first the parts it needs and then the positioning. you may keep them separate or part of the same data structure

L387[10:11:36]

<ayangd> I've done it..

L388[10:11:50]

<Z0idburg> so you tell the computer a ladder is made up of 6 sticks and how theyu are arranged

L389[10:11:51]

<Z0idburg> then

L390[10:12:06]

<Z0idburg> you tell the computer a stick is made up of 2 planks

L391[10:12:18]

<Z0idburg> and then tell it a plank is made out of logs

L392[10:12:27]

<ayangd> 4 sticks are made up of 2 planks

L393[10:12:34]

<Z0idburg> yeah whatever that doesn't matter

L394[10:12:52]

<Z0idburg> it will either a) grab sticks in some inventory or b) make 4 sticks, you only need to tell it how to make 1 stick

L395[10:12:53]

<Z0idburg> not 4

L396[10:13:01]

<Z0idburg> giving you extras

L397[10:13:09]

<Z0idburg> extras that can be used for another recipe

L398[10:13:16]

<ayangd> In this case, the raw material is a log

L399[10:13:28]

<Z0idburg> I wouldn't even worry about that

L400[10:13:42]

<Z0idburg> because some things will have more than one raw material

L401[10:13:58]

<Z0idburg> but yeah

L402[10:14:02]

<Z0idburg> I guess you could

L403[10:14:05]

<ayangd> I'm counting from the topmost to the bottomost

L404[10:14:16]

<ayangd> Mind me posting my code here?

L405[10:14:20]

<Z0idburg> that's a very inefficient way to do that

L406[10:14:34]

<Z0idburg> you should be doing it from the object result you want backwards instead

L407[10:14:54]

<Z0idburg> unless you are trying to find out what objects you can make with what you have

L408[10:15:03]

<ayangd> I've done it, but the counting is wrong

L409[10:15:14]

<Z0idburg> that's just logic

L410[10:15:37]

<Z0idburg> if the counting is wrong then the counting is wrong. Did you debug out to figure why its happening?

L411[10:16:02]

<ayangd> I know it already

L412[10:16:16]

<ayangd> I just wanna know what way is the best to count it

L413[10:17:04]

<Z0idburg> if you know the resulty object you want, such as "ladder" then you just work your way backwards using recursion and build an accumulator of components.

L414[10:17:10] <Inari> You say you want stick, you look up the recipe that make ssitcks. You calculate how many times you have to make that

L415[10:17:15] <Inari> You look upt he recipe to make the planks

L416[10:17:16] <Inari> Repeat

L417[10:17:29]

<Z0idburg> if you want to count raw components, then you only accumuylate when you run out of levels to recurse before you step backwards

L418[10:18:34]

<ayangd> I'd expect it to say 'a ladder needs a log', but with mine, it says 'a ladder needs 3 logs'

L419[10:18:46] <Inari> Then your code messed up somewhere

L420[10:19:10]

<Z0idburg> I think what you're forgetting to do is converge the information

L421[10:19:57]

<ayangd> Yea

L422[10:20:01]

<ayangd> The counting thing

L423[10:20:10]

<Z0idburg> why don't you post this or something

L424[10:20:10]

<ayangd> It got the names correct

L425[10:20:41]

<ayangd> Mind me posting my 66 lines of codes here?

L426[10:20:49] <Inari> Why not, stick it into a codeblock

L427[10:20:50] <Inari> :

L428[10:20:51] <Inari> :p

L429[10:20:53]

<Z0idburg> use a pastebin

L430[10:21:01]

<Z0idburg> its probably too long for a codeblock

L431[10:21:05] <Inari> Or that

L432[10:21:09]

<Z0idburg> I think discord has a sort limiy

L433[10:21:12]

<Z0idburg> limit*

L434[10:21:17]

<Z0idburg> short*

L435[10:21:27] <Inari> I think 2000 chars is the limit per msg

L436[10:21:38]

<Z0idburg> sounds right

L437[10:21:48]

<Z0idburg> it may barely fit

L438[10:23:04]

<Z0idburg> ayangd I highly recommend to use a VCS with some sort of web interface so that you can easily share code and keep backups, etc

L439[10:23:05]

<Z0idburg> ?

L440[10:23:14]

<Z0idburg> such as github

L441[10:23:44]

<ayangd> Yes

L442[10:23:45]

<ayangd> A good idea

L443[10:25:34]

<Z0idburg> lol wat. My university just sent me a bill for $1000

L444[10:25:50]

<Z0idburg> I'll call them up monday. I' don't think I'm going to be paying that

L445[10:26:02] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg, though, now that I finished the MTC32's glueing the I2C Temperature sensorI glued first seems fairly sturdy, I'll guve it an hour or so and see how it goes

L446[10:26:10] <AmandaC> STM32&

L447[10:26:11]

<Z0idburg> Because I paid in full for everything last semester and I didnt go to school this semester lol

L448[10:26:54]

<Z0idburg> oh neat

L449[10:27:04] <Inari> I need to figure out how to make a toggle pushbutton thingy

L450[10:27:23]

<Z0idburg> for?

L451[10:27:24] <AmandaC> Inari: right, first you download buildroot...

L452[10:27:27] <Inari> For some reason that seems way more complicated than it shoudl be

L453[10:27:41] <Inari> AmandaC: buildwhatnow

L454[10:27:47] <Inari> @Z0idburg anything?

L455[10:27:50]

<Z0idburg> they make physical toggle bottons you know

L456[10:27:56]

<Z0idburg> buttons*

L457[10:27:58] <Inari> Yes, but I don't want a physical toggle

L458[10:28:18]

<Z0idburg> in software it's just a simple finite state machine

L459[10:28:46] <AmandaC> Inari: https://buildroot.org/ :P

L460[10:28:51]

<Z0idburg> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/yejuvajepa

L461[10:29:23] <Inari> @Z0idburg yes, but iwthout software

L462[10:29:39]

<Z0idburg> so a circuit?

L463[10:29:42] <Inari> Yes

L464[10:29:58]

<Z0idburg> are you against using a logic chiip?

L465[10:30:01] <Inari> Yes

L466[10:30:06]

<Z0idburg> ok

L467[10:30:24]

<Z0idburg> there's a couple of ways you could do this

L468[10:30:30]

<Z0idburg> one way would be to abuse the way capacitors work I think

L469[10:30:42]

<Z0idburg> when a capacitor is full it becomes an open circuit remember

L470[10:30:46]

<Z0idburg> so it doesn't let any more flow

L471[10:31:06]

<Z0idburg> you use a resistpor to determine the rate at which a capacitor gets to that voltage

L472[10:31:29] <Inari> I looked up a circuit to do it after failing to do it myself with transistors. The circuit apparenlty uses a couple capacitors too, but even when copying it to falstad I couldn't quite get it to work as expected xD

L473[10:31:30]

<Z0idburg> for a button press this is pretty small

L474[10:31:51]

<Z0idburg> ah if you're using transistors that makes some things easier

L475[10:32:06]

<Z0idburg> I figured if digital logic chips werent allowed neither were transistors

L476[10:33:04]

<Z0idburg> did you use the right kind of transistor?

L477[10:33:34]

<Z0idburg> also is this switch SPDT or SPST?

L478[10:33:57]

<Z0idburg> if its spdt it makes it wildly easy

L479[10:34:07] <Inari> digital logic chips hide the actual function

L480[10:34:47] <Inari> @Z0idburg neither, a push button

L481[10:35:04] <Inari> I guess thats SPST-NO

L482[10:35:41] <Inari> A lot of electronics seems to have that

L483[10:35:54] <Inari> Just a "power" button. You press it, it turns on and stays on. You press it again, it turns off

L484[10:36:18] <Inari> Not one you flip, and not one that clicks in and stays in

L485[10:37:02]

<Z0idburg> they make SPDT push buttons

L486[10:37:02]

<Z0idburg> lol

L487[10:37:27] <Inari> Well I just mean this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_switch

L488[10:38:05]

<Z0idburg> oh boy

L489[10:38:12]

<Z0idburg> this looks like the kind of thing I'd want to zap myself with

L490[10:38:16]

<Z0idburg> lol

L491[10:38:38]

<Z0idburg> most small circuit push buttons are DPST

L492[10:41:04] <Inari> Hm maybe I used the wrong circuit though, lets try this one

L493[10:43:12]

<Z0idburg> the thing that's neat with double throw switches is that you can drain the capacitor when its not pressed

L494[10:43:19]

<Z0idburg> very easily

L495[10:44:29] <Inari> Hey, it owrks

L496[10:44:34] <Inari> Now just to understand it

L497[10:45:03]

<Z0idburg> which one did you use?

L498[10:45:10] <Inari> Though it's one thats on by default, thats no tnice.

L499[10:46:06]

<ayangd> https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything/blob/master/floppy/util/crafting.lua

L500[10:46:06]

<ayangd> Line 358

L501[10:47:04]

<ayangd> @Z0idburg

L502[10:47:11]

<Z0idburg> yeah looking

L503[10:47:28]

<Z0idburg> wtf is going on with your indentatiion

L504[10:47:34]

<Z0idburg> its like you threw it in a waffle iron

L505[10:47:51]

<ayangd> It's a tab character

L506[10:47:59]

<Z0idburg> no like

L507[10:48:18]

<Z0idburg> I won't even ask lol

L508[10:48:34] <Inari> @Z0idburg http://tinyurl.com/yxv4hklk

L509[10:48:49]

<Z0idburg> OH THIS simulator

L510[10:48:57]

<Z0idburg> that simulator has weird bugs but it's really nice

L511[10:49:16] <Inari> You have to hold the button for a while for it tot urn on though (but the simulation speed is low, it''d be just a couple ms in reallife)

L512[10:49:25] <AmandaC> Should this be iname, @ayangd https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything/blob/master/floppy/util/crafting.lua#L393 ?

L513[10:49:37]

<ayangd> Yea

L514[10:49:48] <Inari> Whats with all the odd local function business

L515[10:49:52]

<ayangd> The 'floppy' folder is the floppy's root

L516[10:50:15]

<ayangd> odd local function business?

L517[10:50:32] <Inari> Noone defines like 50 local functions inside a funciton D:

L518[10:50:44]

<Z0idburg> lol

L519[10:50:51]

<Z0idburg> well unless they're doing closure based OOP in lua of course

L520[10:50:53]

<ayangd> Ah, yes XD

L521[10:50:53] * Izaya laughs in PsychOS

L522[10:50:54]

<Z0idburg> which is ok to do that

L523[10:51:08] <Inari> @Z0idburg thats the site I was looking at http://www.mosaic-industries.com/embedded-systems/microcontroller-projects/electronic-circuits/push-button-switch-turn-on/latching-toggle-power-switch#press-on-press-off-latching-circuits

L524[10:51:17] <AmandaC> I mean, you're pushstack'ing `name` not `itemname` or `iname`, @ayangd

L525[10:51:23] <Inari> @Z0idburg it's weird, make a proper stack :P

L526[10:51:47] <AmandaC> `name` will be from the parent function

L527[10:51:58] <Temia> Mmn. Contemplating just forking zim-wiki. It seems to have a solid enough foundation for my purposes

L528[10:52:22] <Inari> Temia: Stop making me want to make jokes that'll hurt me

L529[10:52:44] <AmandaC> Temia: zim-wiki?

L530[10:52:58] <AmandaC> Google is absolutely no help for that

L531[10:53:03]

<ayangd> The pushstacking is not really working right now.. Doesn't even do anything yet..

L532[10:53:33]

<Z0idburg> yes that circuit should work great inari

L533[10:53:43]

<Z0idburg> that's kind of what I was thinking about

L534[10:54:02]

<Z0idburg> the capacitor at the 45 degree angle there is kind of magic

L535[10:54:06]

<Z0idburg> keep in mind these are mosfets..

L536[10:54:18] <Inari> @Z0idburg the cap is from that site though :D

L537[10:54:21]

<Z0idburg> so they may behave just slightly differently when you connect an NPN or PNP

L538[10:54:36] <Inari> It's basically this cricuit http://www.mosaic-industries.com/embedded-systems/_media/microcontroller-projects/electronic-circuits/push-button-switch-turn-on/latching-high-side-push-on-push-off-toggle-switch-circuit.png

L539[10:54:40] <Inari> But thats on-by-default

L540[10:54:47]

<Z0idburg> yes

L541[10:54:51] <Inari> So I took the idea of this one http://www.mosaic-industries.com/embedded-systems/_media/microcontroller-projects/electronic-circuits/push-button-switch-turn-on/latching-high-side-toggle-switch-circuit-press-on-hold-off.png

L542[10:54:58] <Inari> And connect a cap there for auto-off

L543[10:55:21]

<Z0idburg> you know what the default state of a flip flop is?

L544[10:55:29] <Inari> No clue

L545[10:55:30]

<Z0idburg> like an RS nor

L546[10:55:34]

<ayangd> https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything/tree/master/floppy#L394

L547[10:55:34]

<ayangd> This scope

L548[10:55:40]

<Z0idburg> it's whatever physics wants it to be at the time its on

L549[10:55:41]

<Z0idburg> XD

L550[10:56:10] <Temia> https://zim-wiki.org

L551[10:56:17]

<PHOBOSS> here's a random happy shark http://tinyurl.com/y2q8jawg

L552[10:56:22]

<Z0idburg> lol

L553[10:56:40] <Temia> Adding -invader to your query helps :p

L554[10:56:55] <Izaya> https://ovo.wxw.moe/media_attachments/files/000/647/582/original/566d48da7e81ae36.jpg

L555[10:56:56]

<Z0idburg> Why is this thing 500 lines of code @ayangd

L556[10:57:16] ⇨ Joins: Thutmose (Thutmose!~Patrick@host-69-59-79-181.nctv.com)

L557[10:57:31]

<ayangd> Because I'm putting everything necessary (in my opinion) in a file

L558[10:57:35] <Temia> Anyway it's a personal wiki but I feel it and its peers are lacking

L559[10:57:36] <AmandaC> Temia: .. figured out! I searched "zem-wiki"

L560[10:57:48]

<ayangd> Grouping them and it becomes a library thing

L561[10:57:55] <AmandaC> Which got me a bunc hof wikipedia pages for people with zem in their name

L562[10:58:05] <Temia> So I was thinking of bashing together something in PyGTK+ and Moinmoin

L563[10:58:05]

<Z0idburg> I think that the best thing to do would be to make code to make a tree, and then postprocess that tree for your counting

L564[10:58:21] <Temia> But I could probably reuse a portion of zim-wiki

L565[10:58:25]

<Z0idburg> tbh you could probably write the code to do half o fthis in like 25 lines

L566[10:59:10]

<Zef> *forth interpreter is 476 lines*

L567[10:59:30] <Inari> I mean, you can make any program 1 line if you really want to

L568[10:59:38]

<Z0idburg> yeah and Zef's interpreter is already bloated

L569[10:59:38]

<Z0idburg> lol

L570[10:59:42]

<Z0idburg> so

L571[10:59:51] <AmandaC> "ASCII Textfile - very long lines"

L572[11:00:00]

<Z0idburg> Here comes Inari the smartass

L573[11:00:01]

<Z0idburg> ?

L574[11:00:22]

<Z0idburg> that could be a band and song AmandaC

L575[11:00:27]

<Z0idburg> the band ascii textfile

L576[11:00:30]

<Z0idburg> song very long lines

L577[11:00:45]

<ayangd> Maybe I need to trace it bidirectionally..

L578[11:00:48] <Inari> @ayangd so how do you actually call this

L579[11:00:54]

<ayangd> Back then forth

L580[11:01:13]

<YourMCGeek> Hi everyone, Im not the best with Lua or with OC, but is there a simple way for a beginner to understand how I can have a list of rules being printed for my server in large text? I know if I use `print` then it will just print the program and still have like `/home` after. Sorry if Im just dumb ?

L581[11:01:58]

<Bob> clear the screen frist

L582[11:02:01]

<Bob> use terml.clear

L583[11:02:06]

<Bob> but to have term you need to load it

L584[11:02:13]

<Bob> so add : local term = require'term'

L585[11:02:26]

<Z0idburg> you may want to consider using a lower resolution mode too

L586[11:02:29]

<ayangd> @YourMCGeek You might want to halt after printing the text..

L587[11:02:30]

<Bob> ^

L588[11:02:39]

<Z0idburg> and you can make the screen large

L589[11:02:43] <Inari> halt and catch fire

L590[11:02:52]

<Z0idburg> you could even just cat a text file

L591[11:02:55]

<Z0idburg> that you edit

L592[11:02:55]

<YourMCGeek> My screen is large now, but the text doesnt fill the screen.

L593[11:02:57]

<Z0idburg> not coding needed

L594[11:02:57] * AmandaC ignites Inari

L595[11:03:03] <Inari> AmandaC: ¬_¬

L596[11:03:06] <Inari> %bite AmandaC

L597[11:03:08]

<Bob> @YourMCGeek change resolution as we said

L598[11:03:09] <Inari> Shame

L599[11:03:10] <AmandaC> D:

L600[11:03:17]

<Bob> use resolution x y

L601[11:03:20]

<YourMCGeek> ah

L602[11:03:23] <Inari> @ayangd But yeah, whats your testing code

L603[11:03:26]

<YourMCGeek> is that just how big my screenis?

L604[11:03:31]

<YourMCGeek> is that just how big my screen is? [Edited]

L605[11:03:49]

<Bob> how much pixels can oyu fit

L606[11:03:55]

<Bob> ending up at how scalled the result is

L607[11:03:56] <AmandaC> @YourMCGeek it's the resoltuion you want the sreen to be in characters

L608[11:04:03]

<Bob> ^

L609[11:04:03]

<YourMCGeek> hmm

L610[11:04:07]

<YourMCGeek> so just trial and error test it?

L611[11:04:26]

<ayangd> https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything/blob/master/floppy/craftingmanager.lua

L612[11:04:26]

<ayangd> You need to execute the program from the floppy's root or the directories will be faulty

L613[11:04:39]

<Bob> for the resolution yea, you need to consider the screen ratio

L614[11:04:42]

<ayangd> Try help after you execute the program

L615[11:04:50]

<Bob> for the widht and height its just your text lines and widest line

L616[11:05:15]

<YourMCGeek> well its a 5x5 Tier 3 screen

L617[11:05:59]

<ayangd> https://ocdoc.cil.li/block:screen @YourMCGeek

L618[11:06:22]

<Bob> you would rather need to link the methods

L619[11:06:25]

<Bob> than the screen itself

L620[11:06:51]

<ayangd> Btw, you mean the gui you enter or the screen block?

L621[11:07:11]

<Bob> the screen is a component and has methods also

L622[11:07:20]

<Bob> you can get the ratio from the screen

L623[11:07:58]

<ayangd> ```Maximum resolution: 50×16/80×25/160×50.```

L624[11:08:01]

<Z0idburg> http://tinyurl.com/y636g5nm

L625[11:08:21]

<Bob> By default you have the max resolutions yea

L626[11:08:30]

<Bob> but they do'nt respect the screen aspct ratio

L627[11:08:39]

<Bob> so it will add black lines to fill the space up

L628[11:08:41] <Inari> @ayangd your trace logic is sketchy, in retrace

L629[11:08:54]

<ayangd> Yep

L630[11:09:00]

<ayangd> It's still indev

L631[11:09:10]

<ayangd> And I'm scratching my head

L632[11:10:09]

<YourMCGeek> So let me get this right

L633[11:10:14]

<YourMCGeek> the smaller the number in x and y the larger the font size?

L634[11:10:28] <Inari> @ayangd pass "1" instead of size in 395?

L635[11:10:34] <Inari> Or better

L636[11:10:48] <Inari> Do away with the for loop and pass math.ceil(v.size / craftingdb[iname].results.size)

L637[11:11:42]

<ayangd> I'm thinking about having the 'size' argument or not having it..

L638[11:11:48]

<YourMCGeek> https://i.imgur.com/XUzlLcG.png is there supposed to be the side bar areas?

L639[11:12:09] <Inari> @ayangd Well "size" makes no sense anyway

L640[11:12:16] <Inari> @ayangd as in, passing "size" there doesn't

L641[11:12:45] <Inari> Because you'd be passing the size of the original calling, not the size you need, or 1 to get the materials for one of hte itemms (since you loop as many times as you have to craft that item)

L642[11:13:02]

<ayangd> Btw, the crafting.lua library is not yet ready for usage, yet

L643[11:13:21] <Inari> Sure, but you're trying to fix the bug in it :P

L644[11:13:49]

<ayangd> Well, rather than fixing it, I'm thinking about a new way to figure it out..

L645[11:13:57] <Inari> But why

L646[11:14:18]

<Zef> @YourMCGeek yes, adjust the resolution of the gpu if you want it to make use of the full screen

L647[11:14:33]

<YourMCGeek> i thought I did?

L648[11:14:38]

<YourMCGeek> gpu.setResolution()?

L649[11:14:50]

<ayangd> I can't see my code can adapt with the item counts

L650[11:14:52]

<McMaartenz> different aspect ratio than the monitor may result in side bars

L651[11:14:53]

<Zef> Well you need the right aspect

L652[11:15:02]

<YourMCGeek> ohh

L653[11:15:04]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> @ayangd What?

L654[11:15:10]

<YourMCGeek> well is there a ay to increase the font size?

L655[11:15:16]

<YourMCGeek> well is there a way to increase the font size? [Edited]

L656[11:15:17]

<McMaartenz> Decdraesing resolution

L657[11:15:17]

<Zef> No\

L658[11:15:18]

<McMaartenz> perhaps

L659[11:15:19]

<Zef> No [Edited]

L660[11:15:22]

<ayangd> @Inari 『おにいでれ』 What?

L661[11:15:30]

<McMaartenz> There is a possibility to increase font size.

L662[11:15:36]

<McMaartenz> It just decreases the resolution

L663[11:15:38]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> @ayangd it's basically the only way to do it anyway

L664[11:15:39]

<McMaartenz> * cough *

L665[11:15:40]

<McMaartenz> @Zef

L666[11:15:43]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> So I don't know what else you wanna do

L667[11:15:58]

<Zef> That's *technically* true

L668[11:16:05]

<McMaartenz> I wouldn't do it tho

L669[11:16:09]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> Also you don't return "1" if its in the rawdb, you should return size

L670[11:16:15]

<Z0idburg> woah

L671[11:16:19]

<Zef> But it's not at all similar to how cc works

L672[11:16:20]

<Z0idburg> inari just caught on fire

L673[11:16:22]

<ayangd> I'm thinking of 'What steps' will it do to get the raw item counts right

L674[11:16:28]

<YourMCGeek> hmm

L675[11:16:35]

<ayangd> So that I can code it better

L676[11:16:46]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> @ayangd And I'm telling you to try those things ?

L677[11:16:51]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> Nevermind, I'll try it myself

L678[11:17:17]

<ayangd> Yes, please

L679[11:17:17]

<ayangd> If you have found it, please let me know too ?

L680[11:17:31]

<Z0idburg> accumulators and recursion is all you need

L681[11:17:33]

<Z0idburg> nothing special

L682[11:17:47]

<Z0idburg> this is a very trivial problem

L683[11:17:58]

<Z0idburg> that doesnt need any more than a page of code

L684[11:18:18]

<ayangd> Again, I'm thinking about going back and forth

L685[11:18:18]

<ayangd> - Back to see the things

L686[11:18:18]

<ayangd> - Forth to count things

L687[11:18:38]

<Z0idburg> why would you want to do that

L688[11:18:42]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> That makes no sense whatsoever

L689[11:18:43]

<ayangd> I'm only working on a function, yet

L690[11:19:13]

<ayangd> Concept http://tinyurl.com/y4zhjtz8

L691[11:19:26]

<Z0idburg> yes you have your arrows backwards

L692[11:19:27]

<Z0idburg> lol

L693[11:19:50]

<ayangd> Yea

L694[11:20:13]

<Z0idburg> In computer science, when you find the right method, it generally falls into place like it was meant to fit there trivially

L695[11:20:26]

<Z0idburg> there's a reason why counting forwards is very rarely used

L696[11:20:47]

<ayangd> That's what exactly I'm working on

L697[11:21:19]

<ayangd> What about using my stacktracing! Yea..

L698[11:21:26]

<Zef> S3 if you want to see my monstrosity of disk support

L699[11:21:27]

<Zef> https://github.com/ZefTheFox/OC-Forth-Interpreter/blob/dev/forth.lua

L700[11:21:50]

<Z0idburg> this is going to be terrifying

L701[11:21:55]

<Zef> Yeah

L702[11:22:00] <Corded> * <Z0idburg> puts on his respirator and clicks the link

L703[11:22:16]

<Zef> It might kill you with it's radiation of awful code

L704[11:22:24]

<Z0idburg> lol

L705[11:22:42]

<Z0idburg> so how does your unmanaged stuff work

L706[11:23:09]

<Zef> Whenever you LIST a sector it caches that sector into a table based off line numbers and bytes in those lines

L707[11:23:17]

<Zef> It also makes that sector current

L708[11:23:21]

<ayangd> Let me see what will I come up with

L709[11:23:58]

<Zef> Whenever you edit a line in the sector it edits the cached sector (also everything is encoded in ascii and converted whenever displayed or edited)

L710[11:24:10]

<Zef> It also calls FLUSH at the end to save the cached sector

L711[11:24:46]

<Z0idburg> ok so a block in your case is a sector?

L712[11:24:57]

<Zef> Yeah, I might use those interchangable

L713[11:25:14]

<Zef> Forth called them blocks but as far as I'm aware they're practically sectors

L714[11:25:24] <Inari> @ayangd what did you mean with "root dir"

L715[11:26:11]

<ayangd> The root directory of the floppy, e.g: ```/mnt/875/```

L716[11:26:19] <Inari> And what do I call there

L717[11:26:47]

<ayangd> From the shell, run `craftingmanager`

L718[11:27:00]

<Z0idburg> This is probably a virus inari

L719[11:27:02]

<Z0idburg> ?

L720[11:27:08]

<Z0idburg> its got a rootkit!

L721[11:27:20] <Inari> Oh itneeds to be on a robot

L722[11:27:28]

<ayangd> Yea

L723[11:27:28] <Inari> Urgh, effort xD

L724[11:27:48]

<ayangd> I edit the code from outside Minecraft

L725[11:27:52] <Inari> Yeah

L726[11:27:57] <Inari> But I still have to make a Robot

L727[11:28:07]

<ayangd> Well, simply use Creatix

L728[11:28:08]

<Z0idburg> beep bop boop

L729[11:28:45] <Inari> good point

L730[11:29:50]

<ayangd> I'm now not using that `traceIngredients` to count things anymore.

L731[11:30:18]

<ayangd> Just the item name

L732[11:30:25] <Inari> "attempt to index nil value rawdb"

L733[11:30:37]

<YourMCGeek> catting out a text file I assume is just cat file.txt?

L734[11:31:09] <Inari> @ayangd so I do

L735[11:31:10] <Inari> load raw

L736[11:31:12]

<Z0idburg> the way I would do it is I'd have a function that takes an object such as a ladder and recursively builds a table of all items it needs.

L737[11:31:12] <Inari> load crafting

L738[11:31:13] <Inari> trace ladder

L739[11:31:16] <Inari> And it crashes?

L740[11:31:20]

<Z0idburg> the function would only return that table

L741[11:31:37]

<Z0idburg> other functions for other purposes.

L742[11:31:44]

<ayangd> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/uvixizimug

L743[11:32:21]

<Z0idburg> what do we have these days for automating crafting tables btw?

L744[11:32:31]

<Z0idburg> well actually robots can craft

L745[11:32:40] <Inari> @ayangd shwos the recipes,y eah

L746[11:32:47] <Inari> tracing minecraft:ladder still crashes it ;-;

L747[11:33:03]

<ayangd> Well, I haven't test it yet

L748[11:33:06]

<ayangd> Hehe

L749[11:33:13]

<ayangd> Brb

L750[11:33:16] <Inari> How do you know it returns a wrong value

L751[11:33:20] <Inari> If you didn't test it

L752[11:33:21] <Inari> ?./

L753[11:34:46]

<ayangd> I'm working on it...

L754[11:34:56] <Inari> @ayangd yeah, but you had to run it somehow to know its wrong

L755[11:34:59]

<ayangd> I'll reupload it after it is ready

L756[11:35:09] <Inari> @ayangd I don't care about what you're working on, I care about what you asked

L757[11:35:10] <Inari> :P

L758[11:35:11]

<ayangd> I haven't done coding yet

L759[11:35:26] <Inari> @ayangd but it's right there in the file

L760[11:35:36] <Inari> And you said it doesn't work. So clearly you hvae a) done coding b) ran it

L761[11:36:10]

<ayangd> Meanwhile the `trace` is still unusable, others still can!

L762[11:36:18]

<ayangd> Like `analyze`

L763[11:36:29] <Inari> But how did you test the trace

L764[11:36:44]

<ayangd> After I finish my code ?

L765[11:36:50] <Inari> @ayangd no, the old one

L766[11:37:29]

<ayangd> I tested the code, then alternated the code, but not yet done, then I post it on github :v

L767[11:37:47] <Inari> @ayangd but HOW did you test teh code

L768[11:38:28]

<ayangd> Wait a sec while I do my code, then I'll test and upload it for you.

L769[11:38:38] <Inari> @ayangd Look, I'm asking how you tested your old code

L770[11:38:52] <Inari> @ayangd You asked a quesiton, I'll answer it, even if I have to hit your heada gainst a wall to tell me how to test it

L771[11:38:52]

<ayangd> Ah, yes

L772[11:40:08]

<ayangd> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/gorawoqari

L773[11:40:21]

<Z0idburg> Inari be breathing fire now

L774[11:40:25] <Inari> Yeah, that crashes saying it lacks "rawdb"

L775[11:40:29] <Inari> as In rawdb is nil

L776[11:40:30] <Inari> :D

L777[11:40:58]

<ayangd> Do you have `raw.db` in the root of you floppy?

L778[11:41:15] <Inari> Yeah, list raw works too

L779[11:41:28]

<ayangd> load raw?

L780[11:41:36] <Inari> Did that

L781[11:41:38] <Inari> says its loaded

L782[11:42:08]

<ayangd> Ah, you mean after inputting `trace minecraft:ladder`?

L783[11:42:21] <Inari> Yes

L784[11:42:43]

<ayangd> It 'was' okay, but not now then.. :v

L785[11:43:36]

<ayangd> Maybe try others:

L786[11:43:36]

<ayangd> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/ewaweyiquh

L787[11:43:53]

<ayangd> It is a fun program

L788[11:44:03]

<ayangd> yet..

L789[11:44:57] <Inari> Ah

L790[11:45:00] <Inari> You removed the size parameter

L791[11:45:01] <Inari> Re-added it

L792[11:45:08]

<Z0idburg> I want to make a crafting system now

L793[11:45:16]

<Z0idburg> in as small of readable code as possible

L794[11:46:27]

<ayangd> ?

L795[11:47:57]

<Z0idburg> x = 5

L796[11:47:59]

<Z0idburg> done.

L797[11:48:05]

<Z0idburg> lol I'm kidding

L798[11:50:14]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> ? http://tinyurl.com/y53ts3yc

L799[11:50:39]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/asodofaniz

L800[11:53:57]

<Forecaster> %potion

L801[11:53:57] <MichiBot> Forecaster: You get a dull gold potion (New!)

L802[11:54:00]

<Forecaster> %sip ^

L803[11:54:00] <MichiBot> Forecaster looks confused as nothing happens.

L804[11:54:05]

<Forecaster> huh

L805[12:00:41] ⇨ Joins: Kleadron (Kleadron!~kleadron@c-73-254-147-9.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)

L806[12:02:02]

<ayangd> Changes has been made.

L807[12:02:02]

<ayangd> https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything

L808[12:03:59]

<ayangd> Maybe try others:

L809[12:03:59]

<ayangd> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/apovutazev [Edited]

L810[12:04:10] ⇦ Quits: Kleadron (Kleadron!~kleadron@c-73-254-147-9.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) (Client Quit)

L811[12:07:11] ⇨ Joins: Kleadron (Kleadron!~kleadron@c-73-254-147-9.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)

L812[12:08:50] ⇨ Joins: Guest33 (Guest33!kiwiirc@n058152044077.netvigator.com)

L813[12:09:01] ⇨ Joins: user109 (user109!~user109@n058152044088.netvigator.com)

L814[12:09:13] <user109> hi there

L815[12:09:20] <Guest33> hi

L816[12:09:37] <user109> hello

L817[12:09:45] <user109> im here to test out the IRC in open computers

L818[12:10:05] <Guest33> 00f

L819[12:10:13] <Guest33> saw that near your name

L820[12:10:16]

<ayangd> Wanna try my program :)?

L821[12:10:35] <user109> huh?

L822[12:10:37]

<ayangd> Wanna try my program ?? [Edited]

L823[12:10:49]

<ayangd> https://github.com/ayangd/oc-automate_everything

L824[12:11:01] <user109> check that out later

L825[12:11:25] <Guest33> i can only see [Not Yet] and [WIP]

L826[12:11:41]

<ayangd> Yea

L827[12:11:42]

<ayangd> It's still indev

L828[12:11:57]

<ayangd> Still starting from the ground

L829[12:12:10] <user109> hm..

L830[12:12:20] <user109> maybe you should finish some more thing before releasing it out

L831[12:12:43]

<ayangd> You might wanna try my 'craftingmanager' program

L832[12:12:47]

<ayangd> It's fun ?

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L834[12:14:22] ⇨ Joins: rashy_ (rashy_!~rashdanml@d24-156-232-46.home4.cgocable.net)

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L836[12:24:07]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> @ayangd Well my change had worked, so I'm happy

L837[12:24:26]

<ayangd> What have you done?

L838[12:24:33]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> https://discordapp.com/channels/125649403162656768/125649403162656768/569203180915916812

L839[12:25:45]

<ayangd> What about tracing a chess?

L840[12:25:57]

<ayangd> @Inari 『おにいでれ』

L841[12:37:55] <Inari> @ayangd also 1 log

L842[12:38:15]

<ayangd> Well, it must be 2 logs

L843[12:38:39]

<ayangd> That's the problem from the first

L844[12:39:04]

<ayangd> So, I removed the counting

L845[12:39:25] <Inari> Ah right, thats another fix probably, sec

L846[13:08:22] ⇨ Joins: rashy__ (rashy__!~rashdanml@d24-156-232-46.home4.cgocable.net)

L847[13:09:43]

<ayangd> Ugh, I still need the counting..

L848[13:10:03]

<ayangd> Well, it's late night now..

L849[13:10:03]

<ayangd> Bye all

L850[13:10:38] ⇦ Quits: rashy_ (rashy_!~rashdanml@d24-156-232-46.home4.cgocable.net) (Ping timeout: 190 seconds)

L851[13:10:57]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> @ayangd Did it, I think

L852[13:11:09]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> local anotherTrace = traceIngredients(itemname, math.ceil((size * v.size) / craftingdb[iname].result.size), craftingdb, rawdb, stacktrace)

L853[13:11:18]

<Inari 『おにいでれ』> Code Block pastebined https://paste.pc-logix.com/orakuyefow [Edited]

L854[13:11:41]

<ayangd> Also don't forget to try with cobblestone chairs

L855[13:12:17] <Inari> Those aren't even int he db though

L856[13:12:31]

<ayangd> You can always analyze it!

L857[13:13:31] <Inari> Oh also had to change both ```return {[name] = 1}``` to ```return {[name] = size}```

L858[13:15:00]

<ayangd> If you are certain enough that your code is 100% works, please open an issue :)

L859[13:15:00]

<ayangd> It's already too late for me. I need to sleep now.

L860[13:15:01]

<ayangd> Anyway, thanks for helping me!

L861[13:15:09] <Inari> @ayangd I analyzed

L862[13:15:14] <Inari> But that doesn't add it to crafting list?

L863[13:15:15]

<Kodos> %tonk

L864[13:15:15] <MichiBot> I'm sorry Kodos, you were not able to beat Forecaster's record of 10 hours, 39 minutes and 22 seconds this time. 4 hours, 24 minutes and 5 seconds were wasted! Missed by 6 hours, 15 minutes and 17 seconds!

L865[13:15:33]

<ayangd> It's still in the slot

L866[13:15:39]

<ayangd> ```show slot```

L867[13:15:58]

<ayangd> Then, to add it to the crafting list, do ```keep```

L868[13:16:26]

<ayangd> And then, to actually save all the updated crafting list, do ```save crafting```

L869[13:16:49]

<ayangd> But, if you don't like what it analyzes, you can do ```discard```

L870[13:17:24] <Inari> I see, well will try around more

L871[13:17:39]

<ayangd> Yep, sure. Please ?

L872[13:23:42] <AmandaC> Well, that's fun.

L873[13:24:03] <AmandaC> Updated my laptop to Pop 19.04 -- now IRCCloud doesn't render in it's electron app

L874[13:26:29] <Cruor> does anyone here happen to have Luarocks working on windows? >_< im out of sane people to ask, this is the last resort :⁾

L875[13:27:06] <Cruor> surely someone here has considered using Lua for something that isnt OC >_<

L876[13:47:06] <Guest33> i use lua just for oc

L877[13:47:10]

<Zef> Glorious Comcast service is down once again

L878[13:48:23]

<Zef> And I can't even see if the service is down without signing into their shitty website

L879[13:55:55] <Mimiru> My server is a mirror for the data files for a game, and said game just had a leak of it's Official source.

L880[13:56:01] <Mimiru> so now EOs is getting SLAMMED

L881[13:56:03] <Mimiru> Eos*

L882[13:56:18] <AmandaC> Oh dear

L883[13:56:20] <Mimiru> I'm sustaining 140MB/s up with bursts higher than that

L884[13:56:59] <Mimiru> On a good note. City of Heroes has a community ran server going, running on leaked official client source.

L885[13:57:18] <AmandaC> heh

L886[13:57:52] <AmandaC> %choose halucinate or tempt fate

L887[13:57:53] <MichiBot> AmandaC: My grandfather always told me that "tempt fate" is the way to go!

L888[13:57:56] <Mimiru> It's unstable as fuck, it seems this 20+ year old code base was poorly optimized and the original publisher fixed that by throwing more servers at it.

L889[13:58:17] <CompanionCube> wait, how is the server running on client source?

L890[13:58:27] <Mimiru> Unfortunately that's not cost effective for a group doing this on volunteer time/budget

L891[13:58:32] <Mimiru> Cause it's not client source.

L892[13:58:37] <Mimiru> It's client and server source.

L893[13:58:41] <CompanionCube> ah

L894[13:59:22] <AmandaC> Mimiru: did I ever link you that story where there's basically CoH as a full-dive VR game?

L895[13:59:24] <Mimiru> I just happen to mirror the .pigg files that the client uses. I was hosting them for "Paragon Chat" which basically fooled the game into working over XMPP for chat and movement (No combat etc)

L896[13:59:39] <Mimiru> AmandaC, I.. don't think so?

L897[14:00:06] <Inari> Cruor: What doesn't work

L898[14:00:06] <Inari> :P

L899[14:00:36] <Cruor> the c compiler is beyond broken

L900[14:00:48] <Cruor> and im tired of fixing windows 10 and visual studios mistakes

L901[14:00:49] <Mimiru> The load is so high on Eos though that I couldn't even SSH in without disabling zlib in nginx

L902[14:01:00] <Cruor> given vs has commited break on it self 3 times now

L903[14:01:20] <Mimiru> ksoftirqd kicked in because of the nginx worker threads

L904[14:01:26] <AmandaC> Mimiru: https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/13249/city-of-champions-online is the story, I can link you to an .epub of it as well, if you'd prefer

L905[14:01:34] <Inari> Cruor: Hm I don't recall messing iwth any c compiler sfor it

L906[14:01:48] <Cruor> but have you tried it on windows 10?

L907[14:01:51] <Mimiru> AmandaC, I'll start with this, I may ask for the epub later though

L908[14:01:54] <Cruor> because windows 10 broke standard headers for the compiler

L909[14:01:56] <Mimiru> anyway gotta run again

L910[14:01:57] <AmandaC> sure. :)

L911[14:01:57] <Mimiru> o/

L912[14:02:08] <AmandaC> It's still being updated, so the epub should change as it gets new chapters.

L913[14:02:46] <AmandaC> Right, let's go see how this glue is doing

L914[14:02:46]

<Bob> Cruor Windows 10 is broken by itself and its a pain to get Lua rocks on it, i did not succes, tought on my phone with termux it was instant

L915[14:02:55]

<Bob> tought on Termux you can't get LuaJit easely

L916[14:04:09] <Cruor> it only need to get them to build once though

L917[14:04:43] <Cruor> not like it matters if its built on windows 10 or not

L918[14:05:03] <Cruor> as long as they work in use :p

L919[14:15:28] <AmandaC> %roll 1d3 1d2

L920[14:15:29] <MichiBot> [1] + [2] = 3

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L922[14:53:38] <CompanionCube> %tonk

L923[14:53:39] <MichiBot> I'm sorry CompanionCube, you were not able to beat Forecaster's record of 10 hours, 39 minutes and 22 seconds this time. 1 hour, 38 minutes and 23 seconds were wasted! Missed by 9 hours and 58 seconds!

L924[14:53:43] <CompanionCube> goddamm

L925[14:53:58]

<Bob> oofskies

L926[14:56:53] * CompanionCube will reclaim #1 from Forecaster

L927[14:56:57]

<Zef> http://tinyurl.com/yxqvvxxp

L928[14:56:58]

<Zef> this is atrocious

L929[14:57:08]

<Bob> EW

L930[14:57:46]

<Zef> I'm glad I didn't pay for this shit

L931[14:57:55]

<Zef> got it for free because I own the good edition

L932[14:58:33]

<Zef> This isn't minecraft

L933[14:58:39]

<Zef> like how does this pass for minecraft

L934[15:03:14] <Vexatos> S3, this'd be a heck opf a lot of work

L935[15:03:16] <Vexatos> not sure

L936[15:03:26] <Vexatos> and also sounds very difficult to parse still

L937[15:03:37] <Vexatos> I can distinguish parameters in lambdas only because they have a known layout

L938[15:03:43] <Vexatos> namely they all must be valid variable names

L939[15:11:25] <Inari> I hate unit tests more because the frameworks for them always seem a pile of tangled somethings that barely work themselves than for writing tets

L940[15:18:49]

<Wuerfel_21> `like how does this pass for minecraft` Because phones are too crap to run real minecraft and consoles are too full of DRM bullshit to run real minecraft

L941[15:22:42]

<Zef> Not even that

L942[15:22:56]

<Zef> They could've rewrote it and had it behave like Minecraft

L943[15:23:13]

<Zef> But nooo they insist on shitty transitions and weirder controls

L944[15:30:17]

<Wuerfel_21> also let's not forget the microtransaction store, lol

L945[15:30:33]

<Mettaton_Fab> they now have 2 main versions, the good old java one and the bedrock version, aka win10 and all the consoles.

L946[15:38:30]

<Zef> Like you know how when you fly in creative you have a sort of momentum?

L947[15:38:41]

<Zef> In this you stop the second you let go of the button

L948[15:38:49]

<Zef> that alone makes it feel like a shitty clone

L949[15:44:58] ⇦ Quits: cpw (cpw!~cpw@23-233-58-185.cpe.pppoe.ca) (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)

L950[15:52:25]

<Kodos> I remember the Nether Reactor from ages ago

L951[15:52:29]

<Kodos> Not even sure that's a thing now

L952[15:55:49] <t20kdc> to be honest, I'd forgive most of the horrors they did to the "Bedrock Edition" if it wasn't for one little thing

L953[15:56:29] <t20kdc> the complete and utter lack of any support for desktop OSes that aren't Windows

L954[15:56:46]

<Bob> ^

L955[15:56:50]

<Bob> No Mac or Linux

L956[15:56:50] <t20kdc> y'know, they can port to a gazillion different consoles, and Android,

L957[15:56:57]

<Bob> its C++ so it shouldn't be hard

L958[15:57:11]

<Bob> Bedrock is a joke

L959[15:57:56] <t20kdc> it's less about the game being C++ (there are C++ things that are hard to port) and more about the fact they certainly didn't have any issues porting it to every single place except those 2 desktop platforms

L960[15:58:12] <t20kdc> it's quite clear,

L961[15:58:50] <t20kdc> it'd be barely a few days work to do the port at most given how any abstractification needed is already done

L962[15:59:00]

<Bob> Bruh

L963[15:59:17] <AmandaC> They actively don't want to

L964[15:59:28] <t20kdc> AmandaC: well, yeah, that's basically the only sane conclusion

L965[15:59:45] <AmandaC> It was mentioned that Mac might happen "Some day" but never linux, because "There's no central app store where we can charge for it and have it be protected"

L966[15:59:58]

<Bob> All for the monies

L967[16:00:01] <t20kdc> soooo... excuses, then

L968[16:00:30] <t20kdc> or does Steam/hell the Ubuntu App Store, but they'd probably be more amiable to Steam; just not exist

L969[16:00:51] <AmandaC> They'll never use steam for it

L970[16:00:58] <t20kdc> obviously the Ubuntu App Store is distribution-specific, so YMMV on that one, but... you see the issue

L971[16:01:04]

<Bob> ^

L972[16:01:16] <t20kdc> it's pretty clearly an excuse

L973[16:01:20] <AmandaC> because then they'll have to have it on windows for steam too, and that'll remove the inceentive for users to browse thrie like, 10 games on the Windows Store

L974[16:01:44] <t20kdc> soooo... iiiit's an excuse to push their rubbish

L975[16:01:48] <AmandaC> Yup

L976[16:02:05] <AmandaC> Some day they'll kill Java edition, and that'll pretty much kill MC, IMHO

L977[16:02:22] <AmandaC> I very much doubt the majority of users are on Windows, let alone Windows 10

L978[16:03:06]

<Bob> Everyone is on pc until recently maybe

L979[16:03:17]

<Bob> when Microsoft bought Mojang

L980[16:03:27]

<Bob> if they kill java they pretty much kill every pc mc user

L981[16:03:46]

<Bob> no one uses win 10 version (no one uses win 10 :) )

L982[16:04:11] <AmandaC> I've got the win10 edition claimed and insatlled, but havn't touched it since

L983[16:04:13] <t20kdc> if they killed Java Edition, even the people on Windows would end up quitting

L984[16:04:54] <AmandaC> if Java edition dies, one of two things will happen: It'll die completely, or there will be a resurgence of modding to make it actually useful

L985[16:04:57] <t20kdc> but the thing is, does that really have a cost to them? they'll still get some people pulled over, and if that's their only metric

L986[16:05:31]

<Bob> They will make mods paid on the market place LOL

L987[16:06:16] <AmandaC> My theory is they're trying to funnel everyone into bedrock or a console/mobile edition, and once they hit some magic number there they'll "sunset" Java edition

L988[16:06:44]

<Bob> I dont think Java Forge will be ever surpassed by any other future bedrock modding API

L989[16:07:19] <AmandaC> Once their metrics manage to show some kind of reason to focus on the bedrock edition exclusively, they'll do it. No matter how they have to twist the viewpoint to make it make sense

L990[16:07:30] <t20kdc> My theory is they'll sunset Java Edition the moment they think they can gain the most Bedrock Edition users by doing it

L991[16:07:58] <t20kdc> No actual reason. They can just outright lie about the reason they tell you.

L992[16:08:09]

<Kodos> The day they sunset the Java edition is the day I quit playing Minecraft, assuming I can't get it to function after the fact

L993[16:08:13] <AmandaC> Sure, but that's less likely to get the employees on board, t20kdc

L994[16:08:19]

<Bob> ^

L995[16:08:20] <t20kdc> Employees on board?

L996[16:08:24] <t20kdc> Who needs them on board?

L997[16:08:33]

<Bob> Lua minecraft underground edition when

L998[16:08:35] <AmandaC> if there's suddenly a mass-exodous of the original mojang crew, then that'll be the signal they decided to lie about it

L999[16:08:43]

<Kodos> @Bob Minetest

L1000[16:09:03] * t20kdc nods (regarding AmandaC's prediction)

L1001[16:09:37] <t20kdc> though I'm sure they'll say "their Java skills are not relevant to the Bedrock Edition's blahblahblah"

L1002[16:09:44]

<Bob> Minetest 2

L1003[16:09:57] <AmandaC> They just released Minetest 5.0.0, @Bob

L1004[16:10:13] <AmandaC> I should go back to figuring out why my tweak mod is exploding under that, actually

L1005[16:10:53]

<Bob> Nevrr noticed it had a Lua API

L1006[16:10:58]

<Bob> Well good to know

L1007[16:11:06] <AmandaC> IT's basically nothing *but* a Lua API

L1008[16:11:06]

<Bob> time to prepare a backup /shrug

L1009[16:11:34] <AmandaC> It a minecraft-esq engine with no built-in content, and all the engine exposed as lua

L1010[16:11:44]

<Bob> C++ Frame

L1011[16:11:48]

<Bob> Doing Lua

L1012[16:11:54]

<Bob> I see more and more games doing it

L1013[16:12:30]

<Bob> Well both are fast so that's ok

L1014[16:12:40]

<Bob> I will look into that later

L1015[16:12:41] <AmandaC> That's because lua is easier for dessigners / map-mapers / etc to use, but you still need C/C++ for preformant graphics

L1016[16:13:01]

<Bob> Yea

L1017[16:13:11] <AmandaC> Lua was basically born for this task

L1018[16:13:13]

<Bob> C / C++ directly communicate with the hardware

L1019[16:13:20]

<Bob> Lua is built on C

L1020[16:13:37]

<Bob> Well and indeed it fits well its position

L1021[16:13:53] <AmandaC> Lua was designed to be used as an embedded language, like TCL but with less weirdness for people not familiar with compsci

L1022[16:14:17] <Inari> I hate TCL

L1023[16:14:32] <CompanionCube> 'communicate' would be the wrong word

L1024[16:14:39] <t20kdc> There is one problem with Minetest, which is that the Lua runtime used is dependent on a few factors

L1025[16:14:50]

<Bob> Lua is the simplest language out there really

L1026[16:14:54] <AmandaC> %8ball take another gamble?

L1027[16:14:54] <CompanionCube> wrong

L1028[16:14:55] <MichiBot> AmandaC: [ The Bowling ball doesn't answer ]

L1029[16:15:02] * AmandaC shakes it again

L1030[16:15:09] <Inari> %pet AmandaC

L1031[16:15:11] <AmandaC> damn thing's broken

L1032[16:15:11] <Inari> %pet AmandaC

L1033[16:15:12] * MichiBot brushes AmandaC with gamaxized dither. 2 health gained!

L1034[16:15:16] * AmandaC cuddles up against Inari

L1035[16:15:30]

<Kodos> What's the command to make the bot do Brainfuck

L1036[16:15:35] <AmandaC> %bf?

L1037[16:15:40]

<Kodos> Maybe

L1038[16:15:40]

<Bob> :GWprytrShaqreal:

L1039[16:15:49]

<Bob> Ive never did or seen it actually

L1040[16:15:55]

<Bob> i just know its a lang

L1041[16:16:05] <t20kdc> %bf >+++++++++++++[-<++++++++>]<.---.+++++++..+++.>++++++++++[-<---------->]<-.

L1042[16:16:06] <MichiBot> hello

L1043[16:16:16] <AmandaC> I truely wonder if there's anything meaningful in those emotes @Bob uses between the GW and the first "real" word, usually a nown

L1044[16:16:17]

<Bob> So intuitive

L1045[16:16:17]

<Kodos> %bf ++++[++++>---<]>-.---[----->+<]>-.+++[->+++<]>++.++++++++.+++++.--------.-[--->+<]>--.+[->+++<]>+.++++++++.-[++>---<]>+.+[->+++<]>.--.+++++++++++++.-[->+++++<]>-.[->+++<]>++.+++.--[--->+<]>-.---[->++++<]>-.----------.++++.+++.----.-------.+++++++++++++.[++>---<]>+.------------.---[->++++<]>.++[->+++<]>.++++++.

L1046[16:16:18] <MichiBot> Brainfuck can be simpler, tbh

L1047[16:16:18] <AmandaC> noun*

L1048[16:17:15]

<Bob> :GWlulurdMmmYea: :GWprytrShaqreal:GWocSomeCoolEmote // AmandaC, GW stands for GameWisp, then comes the server / guild mame then comes the Emote name

L1049[16:17:30]

<Bob> Time to make michibot paste links instead of custom emotes

L1050[16:17:39]

<Bob> @Kodos indeed

L1051[16:17:50] <AmandaC> MichiBot doesn't do the bridging, @Corded does

L1052[16:18:01] <CompanionCube> random fact of the day: lua too can 'directly communicate with the hardware'

L1053[16:18:08] <CompanionCube> that's what the JIT is in LuaJIT.

L1054[16:18:26]

<Kodos> JIT Jacks into things?

L1055[16:18:46]

<Bob> I know about LuaJIT

L1056[16:19:00]

<Bob> And yea it makes Lua Insanely faster

L1057[16:19:09]

<Bob> close to C actually

L1058[16:19:40]

<Bob> Though i saw some issues with the GC and table memory when you get into absurd itinerations, it starts slowing down more than it should

L1059[16:20:03] <t20kdc> %bf +.>++++++++[-<++++++++>]<.++.>++++[-<++++>]<+.-----------.++++++.-.>+++++++++[-<----->]<-.>+++++++++++[-<++++++>]<.>++++[-<++++>]<.+++.--.-----------.---.++++++++++++++.>++++++++++++[-<------->]<+.>+++++++[-<+++++>]<.>+++++++++++[-<++++>]<.--.+++.---------------.+++++++++++++.-----.++++++.-.>+++++++[-<------>]<-.>++++++++++[-<+++++>]<.>++++++[-<--->]<-.+++.>++++++++++[-<------->]<+.>+++++++++++[-<++++++++>]<-.-----------

L1060[16:20:03] <t20kdc> ---.+++++++++++.------------.>+++++++++[-<-------->]<.>++++++++[-<++++++++>]<+.>++++++++[-<-------->]<-.>++++++[-<++++++>]<++..+++.>++++++++[-<----->]<-.>+++++++++[-<+++++++++>]<+.-------------.+.-.+++++++++++++.-------------.+++++++++.-----------.++.>++++++++++[-<------->]<+.>+++++++++++[-<+++++++>]<.------------.+++++++++++++.+++++++.>+++++[-<---->]<.+++++++++++.>+++++++++++[-<------->]<+.>++++++++[-<++++++++>]<+.+++++++++

L1061[16:20:03] <MichiBot> ACTION brushes CompanionCube w

L1062[16:20:04] <t20kdc> ++++.----------.>+++++++++++[-<------>]<--.>++++++++[-<++++++++>]<+.>++++++++[-<-------->]<-.>+++++++++[-<++++++>]<.---------------.------.>++++++++[-<---->]<-.>+++++++++++[-<+++++++>]<.--------.++++++++.++.+++.+++++++.>+++++++++++[-<-------->]<-.>+++++++++++[-<+++++++>]<.------------.+++++++++++++++.>++++++++++[-<-------->]<+.>++++++++[-<---->]<.

L1063[16:20:08] <t20kdc> ...um. that was...

L1064[16:20:11] <t20kdc> more than expected. sorry.

L1065[16:20:12] <Inari> pls

L1066[16:20:35] <CompanionCube> t20kdc: what are you wanting to brush me with

L1067[16:20:48] <t20kdc> the input text was "brushes CompanionCube with a FFI reference manual and a VGA memory map!".

L1068[16:20:54] <t20kdc> I didn't expect HexChat to split it into three separate messages.

L1069[16:20:56] <CompanionCube> ew

L1070[16:20:59] <CompanionCube> VGA memory map

L1071[16:21:02] <CompanionCube> what is the the 80s

L1072[16:21:44] <CompanionCube> go VBE/EFI framebuffer or go home :p

L1073[16:22:03] * t20kdc hisses at the mention of the evil EFI framebuffer

L1074[16:22:18] <CompanionCube> t20kdc: why is EFI framebuffer evil in itself

L1075[16:22:28] <CompanionCube> it's not like it'sone of the bad parts of UEFI :p

L1076[16:23:47] <t20kdc> eeeeh, I don't like UEFI and the EFI framebuffer is a part of it, so

L1077[16:24:06] <CompanionCube> UEFI sucks

L1078[16:24:21] <CompanionCube> the legacy BIOS stack sucks comparatively more.

L1079[16:24:58] <t20kdc> Not really...? At least with the legacy BIOS stack you weren't in danger of the OS screwing around with your boot priorities

L1080[16:25:41] <CompanionCube> oh really

L1081[16:26:10] <CompanionCube> not like they couldn't do that before though

L1082[16:27:04]

<Forecaster> a magic 8 ball is a pool ball though

L1083[16:27:12] <t20kdc> They could overwrite the MBR, but that's not something one just jumps into on a regular basis.

L1084[16:27:27] <CompanionCube> and neither is the OS fucking up the boot priorities

L1085[16:27:41] <t20kdc> No, it just likes to "correct" them so that it's always first.

L1086[16:27:47] <CompanionCube> if it happens it's usually the firmware which can't be held against it

L1087[16:28:50] <t20kdc> It doesn't break the boot priorities per-se, but one might as well give up on running a dual-boot system

L1088[16:29:07] <AmandaC> @Forecaster https://preview.redd.it/a5fk5dg6yflz.png?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=a7132f8dfc857181cf5e3519d8a2a6ea36222d9c

L1089[16:29:29] <AmandaC> That's what I was refernecing when I added that reply

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L1091[16:29:50] * CompanionCube doesn't think windows has a thing for 'correcting 'priorities

L1092[16:30:35] <t20kdc> Well, it's either them or Lenovo.

L1093[16:30:49] <CompanionCube> well i wouldn't put it past lenovo

L1094[16:30:59] <CompanionCube> they essentially did bake malware in their BIOS/firmware that one time

L1095[16:31:36] <AmandaC> Who was it recently that had their insecure update platform used to destribute malware?

L1096[16:31:47] <t20kdc> (...Point is, none of this has happened to me on non-UEFI firmware, soooo, yeah, screw UEFI)

L1097[16:31:52] <CompanionCube> AmandaC: i think the recent one was asus

L1098[16:32:31] <CompanionCube> t20kdc: firmware being crap is a universal constant. UEFI is no more blame than anything else.

L1099[16:32:45] <CompanionCube> (can't believe i'm actually defending it, but here I am!)

L1100[16:34:55] <t20kdc> The problem with UEFI coming in there is that UEFI means there's more firmware to be crap.

L1101[16:36:17] <t20kdc> And more ways for it to be crap in.

L1102[16:36:28] * CompanionCube doesn''t actually know about the BIOS ROM sizes immediately preceding the asecendancy of UEFI so I can't give a proper answer to that

L1103[16:37:10] <t20kdc> I'm pretty sure it's safe to assume that any BIOS that implements both legacy and UEFI modes is going to be bigger, and UEFI has a more generalized feature set anyway so it should be bigger even on it's own, theoretically.

L1104[16:37:20] <CompanionCube> true

L1105[16:37:38] * CompanionCube assumes you know that 2020 is intel's deadline for support for the legacy mode

L1106[16:38:33] <t20kdc> And direct ROM sizes isn't my point anyway, my point is, a more diverse feature set is more points of failure. If firmware is universally crap, I want as little of it as possible so the only stuff I need is the stuff that has actually been tested.

L1107[16:38:49] <CompanionCube> alas we'll never get that

L1108[16:39:26] <t20kdc> Well, not now UEFI exists.

L1109[16:39:53] <AmandaC> But manufacturers wanted a platform to add """"""""Value""""""""

L1110[16:40:26] <CompanionCube> that's not why UEFI exists though

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L1112[16:43:03] <CompanionCube> the BIOS restrictions were getting less relevant and Intel had the shiny new Itanium architecture that needed firmware...and there were alternatives, but Intel had reasons (good or bad) for not using them and NIHing their own thing

L1113[16:43:38] <t20kdc> I'm doubtful that the specification was really written by Intel. There's a lot of stuff that seems like a Microsoft wishlist.

L1114[16:43:46] <CompanionCube> that stuff comes later on

L1115[16:43:49] <t20kdc> PE executables, OS control over the boot order, Secure Boot...

L1116[16:45:33] <Skye> %potion

L1117[16:45:33] <MichiBot> Skye: You get a resonating purple potion (New!)

L1118[16:45:36] <Skye> %drink ^

L1119[16:45:37] <MichiBot> You forget the location of a great treasure.

L1120[16:46:47] * CompanionCube wonders what else they would've used instead of PE/COFF

L1121[16:47:07] <Skye> ELF?

L1122[16:48:32] <CompanionCube> possible

L1123[16:48:42] <t20kdc> ELF is kind of standard for everybody except on Windows. ...Except on Windows.

L1124[16:48:53] <CompanionCube> t20kdc: 'everybody' would be wrong

L1125[16:49:01] <CompanionCube> macOS never adopted ELF

L1126[16:49:17] <t20kdc> True, but that's because they have their own special snowflake format

L1127[16:50:06] <CompanionCube> true, but that's a result of nothing else using Mach

L1128[16:50:17] <CompanionCube> rather than intentionally NIHing it

L1129[16:50:23]

<Z0idburg> Izaya wtf you make no sense

L1130[16:50:28]

<Z0idburg> lol

L1131[16:51:02]

<Z0idburg> "ABS is the one modern computerized feature I wish my bike had"

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L1133[16:51:45]

<Z0idburg> the ONLY thing ABS does is allow you to steer when your tires are locked up lol, a lot of people falsely thing it lets you stop faster

L1134[16:51:59]

<Z0idburg> that's the whole purpose of ABS, steering

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L1141[17:06:04]

<Zef> abs makes it so you don't lose traction

L1142[17:06:19]

<Zef> by pumping your brakes rather than keeping them held

L1143[17:07:24] <Skye> british trains have WSP "wheel slide protection" where the front wheels of the trains attempt to clean the track for the wheels at the rear of the train

L1144[17:08:14] <Inari> @Z0idburg ABS stops faster though

L1145[17:13:58]

<Zef> Technically it does

L1146[17:14:17]

<Zef> because without it your wheels might lose traction and you'd slide along

L1147[17:14:30] <Inari> Theres also more ideal breaking than 100% breaking

L1148[17:15:00]

<Zef> I don't know a whole lot about cars but ABS is one thing I do know

L1149[17:16:07] <Inari> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98DXe3uKwfc&t=4m37s

L1150[17:16:07] <MichiBot> Understanding Anti-lock Braking System (ABS) ! | length: 6m 48s | Likes: 63,365 Dislikes: 2,438 Views: 4,822,043 | by Learn Engineering | Published On 31/5/2018

L1151[17:31:53] <Skye> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K3MQ_hn6XY

L1152[17:31:53] <MichiBot> BR - Steel Wheel, Steel Rail | length: 20m 16s | Likes: 116 Dislikes: 2 Views: 19,920 | by The Train Channel | Published On 14/4/2013

L1153[17:43:24] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg you about?

L1154[17:43:40]

<Z0idburg> whats up

L1155[17:44:03] <AmandaC> Mind giving me a hand with some forth? I'm trying to replicate https://bitbucket.org/fmalpartida/new-liquidcrystal/src/2d860f8189710094c3bd25325fdaf68b2daa3a36/LiquidCrystal_I2C.cpp?at=integration&fileviewer=file-view-default#LiquidCrystal_I2C.cpp-277:284 andI just realised a major problem with how I did it...

L1156[17:44:05]

<Z0idburg> i just sat down are you psychic?

L1157[17:44:20]

<Z0idburg> lemme see

L1158[17:44:48] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg this is what I have, which I now realise is just always setting all 4 of the relevent bits always: https://gitlab.darkdna.net/amanda/embedded-forth-experiments/blob/master/lcd2004a.fs#L34-37

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L1161[17:48:08]

<Z0idburg> isnt that looping for more than 4 bits? shouldn't that be reading word size * 4?

L1162[17:48:19]

<Z0idburg> so a 32 bit system would read 128 bits

L1163[17:48:42]

<Z0idburg> @ is supposed to fetch the entire wordsize

L1164[17:48:56] <AmandaC> It or's together a 4 bit value into an 8-bit byte which might have an aribitary offset

L1165[17:49:17] <AmandaC> ( each bit might have a non-linear offset, that is )

L1166[17:49:48]

<Z0idburg> hmmmm

L1167[17:49:52] <AmandaC> I'm speaking to an I2C pin expander, to then speak to an LCD with an 8-wire control

L1168[17:49:55] <Corded> * <Z0idburg> is now officially confused lol

L1169[17:50:22] <t20kdc> Oh, are you dealing with one of those fancy Hitachi thingies?

L1170[17:50:28]

<Z0idburg> so lets see

L1171[17:50:41]

<Z0idburg> I imagine lcd2004a:pins is the address of the lcd pins

L1172[17:50:46]

<Z0idburg> ?

L1173[17:51:04] <t20kdc> ...wait, that's "lcd2004a", so probably not a fancy Hitachi thingy.

L1174[17:51:12]

<Z0idburg> so you count from lcd2004a:pins to lcd2004a:pins + 3

L1175[17:51:29]

<Z0idburg> you fetch the index value, read the word value

L1176[17:52:05]

<Z0idburg> and you or it with 0 the first time and the necxt time it eats memory?

L1177[17:52:34] <AmandaC> each entry in lcd2004a:pins is a bitmask which I need to or if bit x is set

L1178[17:52:38]

<Z0idburg> or ors it with a stack that has random data in it who knows where its from or no data

L1179[17:52:42]

<Z0idburg> ok

L1180[17:53:34] <AmandaC> t20kdc: It's one of these: https://smile.amazon.com/Arduino-Longruner-Expansion-Included-LK51/dp/B071FGZX8G/

L1181[17:54:13]

<Z0idburg> ah

L1182[17:54:17]

<Z0idburg> I 've seen those

L1183[17:54:20]

<Z0idburg> how is it memory mapped?

L1184[17:54:41] <t20kdc> Huh, so it might be a Hitachi-like-thing yet

L1185[17:55:13] <t20kdc> The pinout of the actual core thing (ignoring the shift register growth) looks like one

L1186[17:56:14] <t20kdc> so if my theory is correct and I'm not just spewing nonsense, it's a HD44780-alike-thingy that's being driven by some horrifying contraption meant to reduce pincount

L1187[17:57:06]

<Z0idburg> Hitachi makes it

L1188[17:57:15]

<Z0idburg> http://image.dfrobot.com/image/data/DFR0154/LCD2004%20hd44780%20Datasheet.pdf

L1189[17:58:21] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg you send a byte over i2c to it, which is what the >i2c word does in this word: https://gitlab.darkdna.net/amanda/embedded-forth-experiments/blob/master/lcd2004a.fs#L22-29

L1190[17:58:22]

<Z0idburg> and it uses an IO expander

L1191[17:58:22]

<Z0idburg> http://image.dfrobot.com/image/data/DFR0154/PCA8574%20Datasheet.pdf

L1192[17:59:32] <AmandaC> And this is the i2c driver I'm using now, though I plan on switching to using the hardware one in this repo shortly: https://github.com/jeelabs/embello/blob/master/explore/1608-forth/flib/any/i2c-bb.fs

L1193[17:59:54]

<Z0idburg> ok

L1194[18:45:24] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg I think what I'm having trouble with is how to get the 2nd-from-the-top index and work on it?

L1195[18:45:32] <AmandaC> ( on the stack 0

L1196[18:46:32] <AmandaC> s/0/)/

L1197[18:46:32] <MichiBot> <AmandaC> ( on the stack )

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L1199[19:01:51]

<Z0idburg> AmandaC there's swap

L1200[19:01:57]

<Z0idburg> if you have 1 2 3 and you do swap

L1201[19:01:59]

<Z0idburg> it becomes 1 3 2

L1202[19:02:03]

<Z0idburg> so you can work on 2

L1203[19:02:12]

<Z0idburg> if that's what you mean

L1204[19:02:20]

<Z0idburg> sorry I'm at my parents place with my sister

L1205[19:02:26]

<Z0idburg> So I'm here but semi distracted

L1206[19:02:38]

<Z0idburg> I don't see my folks often

L1207[19:12:31] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg but I need to consume 2 in that example, while still having it available.

L1208[19:13:13]

<Z0idburg> ah that's easy

L1209[19:13:21]

<Z0idburg> so you have a stack 1 2 3

L1210[19:13:52]

<Z0idburg> you do swap dup and it becomes 1 3 2 2

L1211[19:14:02]

<Z0idburg> howver you can also do this:

L1212[19:14:59]

<Z0idburg> use over instead

L1213[19:15:03]

<Z0idburg> you have a stack 1 2 3

L1214[19:15:06]

<Z0idburg> if you do over you get 1 2 3 2

L1215[19:15:07]

<Z0idburg> ?

L1216[19:15:26]

<Z0idburg> over will do a dup basicaly from the one under the top

L1217[19:15:30]

<Z0idburg> and bring it in front

L1218[19:16:10]

<Z0idburg> I hiiiighly recommend reading this book: https://www.forth.com/starting-forth

L1219[19:16:12]

<Z0idburg> if you haven't

L1220[19:16:20]

<Z0idburg> it's fantastic it's free it's easy to read

L1221[19:16:33]

<Z0idburg> and it's not 9 miles long

L1222[19:17:15] <AmandaC> I should continue reading that, yeah

L1223[19:17:38] <AmandaC> IT's just rather dry unless you've got a captive audiancce. I read the first couple chapters at the dentist

L1224[19:17:40] <Izaya> solid books

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L1226[19:38:08] <Devtron1> question

L1227[19:38:13] <Devtron1> without the internet card

L1228[19:38:24] <Devtron1> how do i get a large code base into the computer

L1229[19:38:28] <AmandaC> Answer

L1230[19:38:38] <Izaya> cheating, or lots of copy and pasting

L1231[19:39:13] <Devtron1> how do i copy paste

L1232[19:39:43]

<Zef> insert pastes

L1233[19:40:31] <Devtron1> cant for some reason

L1234[19:40:42] <AmandaC> copy from the external editor, press insert inside `edit` to paste

L1235[19:41:12] <Devtron1> ahh thank you

L1236[19:41:40] <Izaya> alternatively, use someone else's computer with an internet card, said computer would be running minitel and an frequest HTTP proxy :^)

L1237[19:42:14] <Devtron1> cant :/

L1238[19:42:34] <Devtron1> this is more or less the first time i am trying to use OC for anything

L1239[19:43:12] <Devtron1> want to connect it to ME applied energistics system

L1240[19:43:19] <Devtron1> and use it to keep items instock

L1241[19:43:55] <Devtron1> found this and want to try it

L1242[19:43:55] <Devtron1> https://github.com/sidoh/stockpile

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L1244[19:46:56] <Izaya> IIRC someone was porting that to OC

L1245[19:47:48] <Devtron1> damm did not see it was for CC

L1246[19:47:52] <Devtron1> want an oc version

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L1248[20:03:45]

<doggodude> Do GPUs (using GPU component) work across threads? I can't seem to get any calls to work when I put my render logic on separate thread.

L1249[20:06:05] <AmandaC> @Z0idburg okay, I seem to have done something wrong with my pull-up for i2c, or my header gluing, but idc enough to keep fighting tonight.

L1250[20:11:55]

<doggodude> ~~ Do GPUs (using GPU component) work across threads? I can't seem to get any calls to work when I put my render logic on separate thread. ~~ Never mind, forgot that my GPU component was on the main thread... oops. [Edited]

L1251[20:15:47] <Izaya> Having it out of scope would do that :D

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L1258[23:31:03] <ironmountain> o/