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L1[00:05:15] <Saphire> Sorry
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L13[04:06:55] * Saphire pokes pokes Sangar
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L15[04:41:36] * Saphire pokes pokes pokes Sangar
L16[04:41:55] <Saphire> How do I use jnlua?
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L23[07:34:25] <Inari> I seem like tails :|
L24[07:34:36] <Inari> I like fox tails. I like ponytails. I like twintails. I like clothing tails
L25[07:34:42] <Inari> Ribbon tails
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L33[08:34:21] zsh sets mode: +v on Vexatos
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L53[11:55:11] <Inari> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHhrrmkXsAEAcDP.jpg:large
L54[11:55:32] <Inari> Cruor: https://twitter.com/reptoiid/status/898317037599989760 ?
L55[11:55:33] <MichiBot> Thu Aug 17 17:54:06 CDT 2017 @reptoiid: LOOK HOW FUCKING BURNT MY TOAST IS ITS FUCKING GLOWING https://t.co/7Z5IXD3174
L56[11:56:11] <Cruor> how did you get this picture
L57[11:56:11] <Cruor> D:
L58[11:56:24] <Vexatos> wasn't me
L59[11:56:42] <Inari> Cruor: ?
L60[11:56:47] ⇨ Joins: Cogitabundus (~HAL@122.15.77.139)
L61[11:57:05] <Inari> Dunno, it's some tweet kirinodere liked
L62[12:05:55] <Kodos> Cruor, I don't need RS gear anymore :3
L63[12:06:37] <Cruor> Kodos: :I why not
L64[12:06:56] <Kodos> Remember when I told you why I quit? How I sold all my gold to a friend
L65[12:07:38] <Kodos> He gave me all the stuff he used the gold on
L66[12:07:43] <Kodos> So now I have melee/ranged gear
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L72[12:47:35] <Celtic> Who the hell is that adorable wolf girl? :3
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L75[12:55:29] <feep> has anyone developed a distributed database for oc?
L76[12:56:33] <feep> also, are lua strings internized?
L77[12:56:50] <feep> interned*
L78[12:57:54] <CompanionCube> feep: I don't believe anyone's wrote a distributed database, no
L79[12:58:17] <feep> damn
L80[12:58:27] <feep> I was thinking plop a server farm somewhere and run like ten robots mining out a cave at once
L81[12:58:36] <feep> but I suspect I'll need more memory than 4MB for that
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L83[13:00:58] <CompanionCube> why not try to write one?
L84[13:01:15] <feep> getting a little sick of having to put in effort to work around the oc constraints
L85[13:01:31] <feep> just a lil tho :)
L86[13:01:52] <CompanionCube> you can always cheat and tweak the memory limit in the config :p
L87[13:02:12] <feep> a problem with a mod doesn't become less of a problem because you can fix it in config :P
L88[13:02:34] <CompanionCube> A problem isn't intentional. I'd say it's more like a design choice
L89[13:02:46] <feep> also my ic2 rubber tree farm is running into an issue: rubber trees don't seem to drop enough seeds for replacement rate. o.o
L90[13:02:58] <feep> design choices can be problems!
L91[13:06:13] <Kodos> Let's also consider the fact that since you're unwilling to edit the config, it's no longer an OC constraint, and a self imposed limit
L92[13:06:43] <feep> I see editing the config as equivalent to typing in a cheat.
L93[13:07:12] <feep> I don't think it's an oc "constraint" in the sense of "technological constraint", but "deliberate design constraint"
L94[13:07:22] <Kodos> And you're welcome to have that opinion, but the problem you're facing is solvable using a config edit, so if you're unwilling to do that, it's no longer a constraint at all
L95[13:07:40] <feep> to me that's like saying getting stuck in the ground isn't a bug because you can cheat to teleport out
L96[13:08:02] <feep> .... oops
L97[13:08:07] <feep> "Robot, fetch me a chisel!"
L98[13:08:16] <feep> :Robot ceremoniously delivers me a saucepan:
L99[13:08:22] <feep> "hm, I should doublecheck that recipe."
L100[13:08:24] <Kodos> Teleporting out is a cheat, yes. Editing a config is changing a config
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L102[13:08:58] <feep> Kodos: I see them in the same vein, out-of-gameplay means to modify the gameplay.
L103[13:18:29] <Inari> Hm meh
L104[13:18:35] <Inari> Can't I somehow save tabs in sublime or something
L105[13:18:41] <Inari> And re-open them at a later point
L106[13:20:38] <Sangar> project/save workspace as and project/open project (which also opens workspaces) should be what you're looking for
L107[13:22:00] <Inari> Doesn't seem like it saved anything :D (like didnt' even make a file o.o)
L108[13:23:09] <Inari> Oh well, time to figure out how ot make react router work
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L111[13:35:18] <fodw> Hi, I have a mod installed that can generate RF, but it's not one that will be detected as power providing. Is there a general way to force opencomputers to use power regardless of whether a suitable mod is available?
L112[13:39:04] <Kodos> fodw, you can turn off the power requirement in the config, that will suppress the error about no supported power mods as well
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L115[13:42:14] <Forecaster> But editing the config is cheating D:
L116[13:42:36] <Kodos> Indeed
L117[13:44:10] <Inari> Well, it can certainly feel like cheating, yes.
L118[13:44:14] <Beeskee> Heyas all
L119[13:44:20] <Inari> In the same way that I could acquire diamonds quickly by uising creativemode
L120[13:44:50] <Inari> I don't get react router's docs :D
L121[13:45:00] ⇨ Joins: fodw (webchat@95.144.151.215)
L122[13:49:18] <Beeskee> Anyone have any suggestions for any opencomputers games? Or computercraft games
L123[13:50:50] <Inari> Okay I got the Router to work
L124[13:51:01] <Inari> Now to figure out how to convince it to work with Electron opening a ne wwindow
L125[13:51:45] <Temia> Roguelikes!
L126[13:52:48] <Beeskee> I love roguelikes <3
L127[13:52:54] <Beeskee> Got any suggestions?
L128[13:53:22] * Michiyo stabs payonel
L129[13:54:54] <Kodos> I have no idea if it works anymore, Beeskee but here ya go https://github.com/MyNameIsKodos/OpenComputers-Programs/blob/master/fun/adventure.lua
L130[13:56:18] <Beeskee> Thank you!
L131[14:03:56] *** Vaht is now known as Tahg
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L134[14:21:18] <Inari> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OORmeKiJ82c
L135[14:21:21] <MichiBot> Revelation Online 天谕 - Loli | length: 2m 21s | Likes: 19 Dislikes: 3 Views: 2,812 | by Oksana Mel | Published On 12/6/2017
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L138[14:34:11] <MineRobber9000> ugggh
L139[14:34:22] <Inari> MineRobber9000: uguuuu~
L140[14:34:33] <MineRobber9000> trying to port a CC program to OC for fun, turning out to be not so fun after all
L141[14:34:42] <Inari> How so
L142[14:34:45] <Inari> Should be pretty simple
L143[14:35:27] <Vindex> Inari: it's not... depending on the size
L144[14:35:34] <MineRobber9000> the project I'm working with has a platform-agnostic setup (different platforms are handled by special modules in the code)
L145[14:35:41] <Vindex> I've ported several hundred lines and I had unit tests for everything...
L146[14:36:03] <MineRobber9000> problem is, finding the correct OC functions to put in is proving difficult
L147[14:37:34] <Inari> Vindex: Dunno, can't see it being that difficult honestly :P
L148[14:38:01] <Vindex> Inari: it's not hard, it's rather tedious. the worst are small subtle differences
L149[14:38:26] <Vindex> when you don't know OC precisely, you have to figure out those
L150[14:38:41] <Vindex> e.g. for me - I had to modify my stubs for unit tests
L151[14:38:57] <Inari> I doubt I'd even ahve unit tests for CC software
L152[14:39:16] <Vindex> and then in-game find out API differences (e.g. swapped Y and Z coordinates for some reason)
L153[14:40:03] <Inari> But sure, I guess it can be annoying if you know little about OC
L154[14:41:49] <gamax92> Hey
L155[14:42:02] <MineRobber9000> https://pastebin.com/zbNa6FPV these are the methods I need to create/reference
L156[14:42:13] <MineRobber9000> some of them are simple, others... not so much
L157[14:43:03] <gamax92> I mean, not really?
L158[14:43:32] <MineRobber9000> not saying any of them are hard, per se
L159[14:43:40] <MineRobber9000> just that it requires some work
L160[14:44:00] <Inari> Cruor:
L161[14:44:01] <Inari> See loli vid
L162[14:44:11] <gamax92> Inari: woah now
L163[14:44:22] <Inari> What
L164[14:44:37] <MineRobber9000> so the program has 2 platform implementations already
L165[14:44:52] <MineRobber9000> it chooses between the 2 based on checks for existance of certain things
L166[14:44:58] <MineRobber9000> I've already added an OC check
L167[14:45:20] <MineRobber9000> but should I start from the ComputerCraft implementation or the native Lua implementation
L168[14:58:33] <Skye> MineRobber9000, maybe talk to Payonel? He is the person who does the OpenOS stuff, he seems to know it inside and out.
L169[15:01:16] <Inari> MineRobber9000: I think that depends
L170[15:01:19] <Inari> which was made first? :P
L171[15:01:32] <MineRobber9000> idk
L172[15:01:39] <MineRobber9000> github doesn't give that much info
L173[15:01:49] <MineRobber9000> I think I'll do it from scratch
L174[15:03:20] <Skye> MineRobber9000, I'd advise you to do as much as possile with pure Lua
L175[15:03:23] <Skye> then extend upon that
L176[15:03:55] <MineRobber9000> yeah
L177[15:04:13] <MineRobber9000> I'm just going to doc hop the hell out of this and probably finish it by tonight
L178[15:04:27] <MineRobber9000> (btw doc hop means read docs when I get confused)
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L180[15:04:48] <Inari> I'd just prefer working from the original version
L181[15:04:51] <Inari> Since else you're hacking a hack
L182[15:07:12] <MineRobber9000> speaking of working on stuff
L183[15:07:15] <MineRobber9000> hi Squid
L184[15:07:28] <MineRobber9000> I'm trying to work on OC support for Howl
L185[15:08:19] <asie> MineRobber9000: Why?
L186[15:08:22] <asie> You could just use the CC emulator?
L187[15:08:34] <MineRobber9000> I'm bored
L188[15:08:40] <MineRobber9000> and want something to work on
L189[15:08:43] <asie> Oh, ok
L190[15:09:39] <Inari> Whats Howl
L191[15:10:15] <MineRobber9000> https://github.com/SquidDev-CC/Howl
L192[15:10:25] <MineRobber9000> basically, a build system SquidDev made for ComputerCraft
L193[15:10:40] <MineRobber9000> I'm working on adding an OC platform implementation
L194[15:14:52] <MineRobber9000> does OC have a function similar to CC's "error"? (i.e; shows an error and exits
L195[15:14:55] <MineRobber9000> *exits)
L196[15:15:11] <Inari> error?
L197[15:15:36] <Inari> error is lua anyway :f
L198[15:15:45] <MineRobber9000> :P
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L201[15:30:29] <MineRobber9000> aight
L202[15:30:37] <MineRobber9000> I've made the basic preparations
L203[15:31:05] <MineRobber9000> i'd say about 25% of the required methods are implemented but it's a good start
L204[15:32:07] <MineRobber9000> actually, more like 45% but still
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L209[15:40:04] <payonel> Michiyo: haha, lua -> "a lot" nice
L210[15:40:17] * payonel needs alot of LUA
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L212[15:41:29] <payonel> MineRobber9000: what openos question do you have?
L213[15:41:48] <payonel> alot of LUA
L214[15:41:48] <MichiBot> ALOT: http://tinyurl.com/y42zurt
L215[15:41:53] <payonel> LUA alot
L216[15:41:53] <MichiBot> ALOT: http://tinyurl.com/y42zurt
L217[15:41:57] <payonel> :)
L218[15:41:58] <payonel> LUA
L219[15:41:59] <MichiBot> It's lua, not LUA. Name not an acronym.
L220[15:42:23] <payonel> %hug Michiyo
L221[15:42:30] <payonel> %pet Michiyo
L222[15:42:31] * MichiBot brushes Michiyo with a list of #oc's favourite YT channels. Michiyo recovers 3 health!
L223[15:42:45] * payonel is a hugger, not a petter
L224[15:42:51] <payonel> well, unless requested
L225[15:42:53] <Michiyo> yeah.. I can make it do one or the other... and it checks a lot first... I stuck it in that module for now.
L226[15:44:04] <payonel> i was just messing with it
L227[15:44:05] <Michiyo> I may break it out into it's own module cause I didn't think about it doing that lol
L228[15:44:06] <payonel> it's not wrong
L229[15:44:11] <Michiyo> :P
L230[15:44:18] <Michiyo> but that WOULD be spammy
L231[15:44:44] <payonel> no more than myself
L232[15:44:51] <Michiyo> lol
L233[15:45:26] <payonel> Michiyo: are you in the eclipse path, or traveling to watch it?
L234[15:45:46] <Michiyo> I'm VERY close to totality but not in it.. :(
L235[15:48:04] <Michiyo> But yeah.. not traveling... I got 3 days off last week, only cause the only reason I could get out of bed.. was so I'd not throw up in it.
L236[15:48:06] <payonel> we're close, but traveling to be under it fully
L237[15:48:12] <payonel> :(
L238[15:48:19] <payonel> i'm sorry
L239[15:50:04] * Michiyo shrugs
L240[15:50:34] <Michiyo> I'm getting closer to getting the hell away from here...
L241[15:50:36] <Michiyo> so it's ok
L242[15:50:46] <Michiyo> I'm also almost to $10k this year... lol
L243[15:51:04] <payonel> paid or saved?
L244[15:51:38] <Michiyo> paid..
L245[15:51:40] <Michiyo> lol savings.
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L247[15:54:48] <payonel> hehe :)
L248[16:14:29] <Michiyo> lol Kodos https://michi.pc-logix.com/2017-08-18_16-14-23.png
L249[16:14:33] <Michiyo> found on imgur
L250[16:15:28] <payonel> ! now we know what kodos looks like
L251[16:28:59] <Kodos> Well if we're going by my name's origins, I actually look like http://i.imgur.com/V1EDLUD.jpg
L252[16:29:37] <payonel> haha nice
L253[16:30:41] <Beeskee> Anyone been investing in cryptocurrency?
L254[16:30:45] <MineRobber9000> this is what I have so far https://github.com/MineRobber9000/Howl/blob/master/howl/platform/oc.lua
L255[16:31:16] <payonel> MineRobber9000: component.[component_name] does not return nil
L256[16:31:23] <payonel> instead, it throws an exception :)
L257[16:31:27] <MineRobber9000> ah
L258[16:31:42] <Kodos> Indeed, you want component.isAvailable("internet") iirc
L259[16:31:49] <payonel> also, i dont recommendd fs.open -- it uses abs path only
L260[16:32:04] <payonel> and is not buffered (which might be what you want)
L261[16:32:10] <payonel> io.open might be what you prefer
L262[16:32:11] <MineRobber9000> or I could "local hasInternet, internet = component.internet"
L263[16:32:22] <payonel> also, local end is a bad var name
L264[16:32:29] <MineRobber9000> true
L265[16:32:37] <MineRobber9000> wait
L266[16:32:45] <payonel> MineRobber9000: no, if there is no internet card, then `component.internet` will throw an exception
L267[16:33:01] <payonel> local internet = component.isAvailable("internet") and component.internet
L268[16:33:03] <payonel> would be okay
L269[16:33:16] <MineRobber9000> actually it should be "local hasInternet, internet = pcall(component.getPrimary('internet'))"
L270[16:33:27] <payonel> sure
L271[16:33:34] <payonel> it's all the same-ish
L272[16:33:38] <MineRobber9000> fuck
L273[16:33:47] <MineRobber9000> this means I have to fix my check now
L274[16:34:57] <MineRobber9000> payonel: is there any component that is sure to exist on any OC comp?
L275[16:35:25] <payonel> MineRobber9000: no
L276[16:35:28] <payonel> :)
L277[16:35:54] <payonel> well, there is PROBABLY the tmp filesystem, but not gaurenteed
L278[16:36:08] <AmandaC> "computer"?
L279[16:36:22] <AmandaC> I think even robots have a "computer" component, don't they?
L280[16:36:23] <Kodos> Computer =\= component
L281[16:36:36] <AmandaC> Shows up in `components` at least, IIRC
L282[16:36:51] <AmandaC> unless that's voodoo by openos
L283[16:37:09] ⇦ Quits: SquidDev (~SquidDev@host86-177-240-118.range86-177.btcentralplus.com) (Quit: sleep.)
L284[16:37:22] <payonel> AH, computer
L285[16:37:25] <payonel> that is not voodoo
L286[16:37:27] <payonel> well
L287[16:38:29] <MineRobber9000> so could I reasonably do a check like "pcall(function() return require('component').computer)"
L288[16:38:32] <MineRobber9000> ?
L289[16:38:51] <Kodos> wat
L290[16:39:01] <MineRobber9000> Kodos: in case you missed it
L291[16:39:22] <MineRobber9000> I'm working on a platform implementation for Howl, a build system made by SquidDev for ComputerCraft
L292[16:39:28] <MineRobber9000> attempting to get it working with OC
L293[16:39:56] <MineRobber9000> I need some sort of check so that I know that the environment I'm using is really OC
L294[16:40:27] <MineRobber9000> does OC really set any globals I could check?
L295[16:40:50] <MineRobber9000> the only other solution is to check if the component API exists
L296[16:41:00] <MineRobber9000> and is the OC API and not something else
L297[16:41:01] <payonel> MineRobber9000: well, someone could be running your code in a sandbox that is made to look like cc
L298[16:41:13] <MineRobber9000> in that case, it should run the CC version
L299[16:41:19] <MineRobber9000> that should be intended behavior
L300[16:41:41] <MineRobber9000> i'll just say this: the OC check comes after the CC check
L301[16:41:48] <payonel> are you checking for openos or for oc?
L302[16:43:02] <payonel> AmandaC, MineRobber9000: the computer component is not voodoo by openos, but added by OC outside the lua sandbox
L303[16:44:00] <MineRobber9000> payonel: OC if possible, OpenOS if not
L304[16:45:07] <payonel> does cc have _G.component ?
L305[16:49:14] <payonel> seems that's all you would need to check
L306[16:49:14] <MineRobber9000> no
L307[16:49:26] <MineRobber9000> but does OpenComputers - OpenOS?
L308[16:49:36] <MineRobber9000> (as in, OC without OpenOS)
L309[16:49:39] <payonel> yes
L310[16:50:05] <payonel> but without openos, you don't have component.isAvailable
L311[16:50:14] <payonel> you don't have component.<comp_name>
L312[16:50:27] <payonel> you don't have io.open
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L314[16:52:49] <payonel> so...what are you making?
L315[16:53:30] <AmandaC> payonel: they're trying to make a OC runtime for some abstraction framework they linked earlier.
L316[16:55:12] <MineRobber9000> *build system
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L318[16:55:35] <MineRobber9000> and want something to work on
L319[16:55:41] <MineRobber9000> wait wrong message
L320[16:56:11] <MineRobber9000> https://github.com/SquidDev-CC/Howl
L321[16:56:17] <MineRobber9000> there we go
L322[16:57:05] <payonel> well i'm going to be afk(offline) for most of the day, and all day tomorrow
L323[16:57:18] <payonel> just %tell me something if you have questions
L324[16:57:42] <payonel> %tell payonel what is xyz?
L325[16:57:42] <MichiBot> payonel: payonel will be notified of this message when next seen.
L326[16:57:45] <payonel> ^ like that
L327[16:58:34] <payonel> MineRobber9000: a lot of people in here know quite a lot about the mod and probably can answer your questions. but in case something is unclear or unsure, feel free to ask me (i'm the openos dev, so it is expected that i would know)
L328[17:02:28] <MineRobber9000> okay
L329[17:02:29] <MineRobber9000> thanks
L330[17:02:32] <MineRobber9000> :)
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L332[17:27:14] <AmandaC> %choose anime or try hacknet
L333[17:27:15] <MichiBot> AmandaC: anime
L334[17:27:24] <AmandaC> Hrm, acceptable, I suppose
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L341[18:09:51] <MGR> ~w internet
L342[18:09:51] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:internet
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L350[19:00:33] <MineRobber9000> I kinda want to make an OC Discord client
L351[19:00:59] <MineRobber9000> it should be easy
L352[19:01:04] <Mimiru> I think websockets were a hurdle there
L353[19:01:57] <MineRobber9000> just call the API
L354[19:02:03] <MineRobber9000> ah
L355[19:02:24] <Mimiru> yeah..
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L357[19:03:36] <MineRobber9000> I mean, using something like a specialized IRC server designed to 1:1 replicate Discord functionality
L358[19:03:42] <MineRobber9000> you could easily do it
L359[19:03:56] <MineRobber9000> I thought OC had websockets
L360[19:04:11] <Xal> use a discord-irc bridge
L361[19:04:15] <MineRobber9000> guess I'm SOL on that (neither OC or CC has it)
L362[19:04:29] <MineRobber9000> 00:03 < MineRobber9000> I mean, using something like a specialized IRC server
L363[19:04:29] <MineRobber9000> designed to 1:1 replicate Discord functionality
L364[19:04:36] <MineRobber9000> damn it that failed
L365[19:04:53] <Xal> but discord functionality is stupid
L366[19:07:49] ⇦ Quits: Sava (~Sava@cable-178-148-185-58.dynamic.sbb.rs) (Ping timeout: 200 seconds)
L367[19:09:07] <g> oh yeah, video and voice calls are stupid, rich embeds, avatars and markdown support are stupid features
L368[19:09:08] <g> :P
L369[19:09:17] <g> clearly nobody could possibly want all of those in one application
L370[19:09:19] <Xal> vendor lock-in is stupid
L371[19:09:35] <g> I appreciate the tin-foil, at least that's consistent
L372[19:09:41] <g> Have you seen Matrix?
L373[19:09:45] <Xal> and also closed protocol and proprietary, buggy as hell ELECTRON client
L374[19:09:52] <g> closed protocol? nope
L375[19:10:03] <g> the electron client isn't buggy for me, even though I'm using alpha builds
L376[19:10:30] <Xal> it isn't a closed protocol?
L377[19:10:33] <g> you're free to write your own, almost everything is documented
L378[19:10:36] <g> sec
L379[19:10:51] <g> https://discordapp.com/developers/docs/topics/gateway
L380[19:11:11] <g> the docs are mostly for bots, but there is some client-specific stuff in there
L381[19:11:15] <g> it's all the same protocol
L382[19:11:23] <Xal> perhaps you missed
L383[19:11:23] <Xal> Except for the licenses expressly granted to you in this Agreement, Discord shall own and retain all right, title and interest, including without limitation all intellectual property rights, in and to (i) the API or SDK and any and all elements and components thereof, including content, technology, software code, user interfaces and any derivative works and/or compilations thereof
L384[19:11:37] <g> yeah that's nothing new
L385[19:11:40] <g> even mojang has that clause
L386[19:11:56] <Xal> yeah well that ain't no open protocol
L387[19:12:37] <g> actually I don't think that actually includes clients
L388[19:12:52] <g> it includes derivative works, but unless you're just copying their API and adding to it..
L389[19:13:20] <g> also, doesn't oracle also claim these rights?
L390[19:13:25] <g> everyone still uses java though
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L392[19:14:48] <g> honestly this is inconsequential to me because, well, nobody wants to make something with the same API
L393[19:15:05] <g> the whole pull of discord is that you probably know at least a handful of people using it
L394[19:15:12] <g> if their api/login system goes down, well, what's the point?
L395[19:15:41] <g> the ux is why people use it, not the api, lol
L396[19:15:58] <Xal> discord's also centralized, unlike many open standards that the web was built on (www, email, usenet, irc)
L397[19:16:19] <g> Sure, that doesn't make them _good_ though
L398[19:16:20] <Xal> with no e2e encryption you have to trust discord isn't selling/snooping on your information
L399[19:16:28] <Xal> which I do not
L400[19:17:09] <g> while this is true, they do have a privacy policy in place
L401[19:17:14] <Xal> also electron uis are simply cancer and need to die
L402[19:17:20] <Xal> javascript was a m i s t a k e
L403[19:17:22] <g> to be clear, a lot of their features would require not having e2e encryption
L404[19:17:28] <CompanionCube> Xal: oh come on, they're not *that* bad
L405[19:17:29] <g> so it's not really a surprise.
L406[19:17:34] <g> yeah, they're not that bad
L407[19:17:38] <g> electron has come a long way
L408[19:17:48] <Xal> what features would require no encryption?
L409[19:18:18] <g> the fact that you can have instant search provided by the server in places with literally millions of messages to look through?
L410[19:18:36] <g> don't think I'd want a little android phone doing that
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L412[19:19:24] <Xal> just because data is stored encrypted on the server doesn't mean you can't search the data
L413[19:19:26] <g> and I really don't think I'd want to have to download that whole backlog myself
L414[19:19:36] <Xal> there are techniques for searching encrypted data
L415[19:20:01] <g> well if you think you can solve that problem, they're hiring :P
L416[19:20:11] <Xal> it's not a new concept
L417[19:20:23] <Xal> also lol if you think discord gives a shit about your privacy
L418[19:20:44] <g> I mean, we're all sitting on an IRC network run by people most of us don't know as well
L419[19:20:47] <Mimiru> s/discord/anyone literally at all/
L420[19:20:48] <MichiBot> <Xal> also lol if you think anyone literally at all gives a shit about your privacy
L421[19:20:53] <CompanionCube> (JavaScript was pretty damn fine when it originated in the 90s. It is unfortunate it has been twisted and abused into becoming what it is today)
L422[19:20:57] <Xal> amen Mimiru
L423[19:22:08] <Xal> I don't like it when my chat applications use 250MiB of ram
L424[19:22:43] <g> Huh, I guess you don't use a Gecko-based or Webkit-based browser then
L425[19:22:47] <CompanionCube> is discord the right target of that blame though
L426[19:22:58] <g> well, there are lighter electron variants out there
L427[19:23:06] <g> although they might not provide all the needed APIs
L428[19:23:38] <CompanionCube> also, at least the gecko browser does more than provide a single application/window
L429[19:23:53] <Xal> g: I don't mind the resources used by a web browser because a web browser /necessitates/ that I run a rendering engine
L430[19:24:28] <g> sure, but at the same time, there are legit reasons to use something like electron
L431[19:24:44] <g> it's worth pointing out that most people don't run on toasters with less than 250MiB of ram these days
L432[19:25:00] <g> and you are clearly not the target audience anyway :P
L433[19:25:34] <Xal> just because I have 4/8 gb of ram doesn't mean that I should piss it all away
L434[19:25:53] <Xal> I wanted growing ram sizes to mean I can /actually run more shit/
L435[19:25:56] <g> well, if you're not gonna use it, why did you buy it?
L436[19:26:02] <CompanionCube> it's a minor point at best unless you're running slack
L437[19:26:14] <g> does slack use more than that?
L438[19:26:15] <g> lol
L439[19:26:25] <g> I suppose it would
L440[19:27:07] <CompanionCube> https://medium.com/@matt.at.ably/wheres-all-my-cpu-and-memory-gone-the-answer-slack-9e5c39207cab just one example
L441[19:27:22] <Xal> I can only think of one reason to use electron: having only braindead web developers at your disposal
L442[19:27:37] <g> I mean, having not infinite money and time are pretty good reasons too
L443[19:27:42] <Xal> also, use electron if you hate accessibility features and want to punish people using screenreaders
L444[19:27:51] <CompanionCube> Xal: there are other arguments
L445[19:28:07] <CompanionCube> such as having a pre-existing web codebase that's easily adaptable to electron
L446[19:28:08] <g> discord has TTS built in so I don't think that's a problem there
L447[19:28:52] <MGR> ~w os
L448[19:28:52] <ocdoc> http://www.lua.org/manual/5.2/manual.html#pdf-os
L449[19:28:56] <CompanionCube> or wanting to have exactly the same app on all platforms
L450[19:29:03] <Xal> CompanionCube: qt
L451[19:29:08] <g> lol qt
L452[19:29:14] <g> I thought you cared about memory usage?
L453[19:29:22] <Xal> I do, and qt's fine
L454[19:29:29] <g> it's no less, though
L455[19:29:58] <g> I mean, I've worked with it myself in the past, you're shipping a fair stack of shared objects along with your app
L456[19:30:14] <Xal> dynamic libraries are a thing
L457[19:30:17] <g> can be to the tune of 2GB if you're shipping all of the components too
L458[19:30:24] <CompanionCube> my main problem with electron is nontechnical (although it'd be nice if the runtime/framework wasn't duplicated for every flipping app. I mean, come on.)
L459[19:30:52] <Xal> electron also doesn't conform to the theming my desktop uses
L460[19:30:54] <g> Oh? You want to rely on system-installed library, Xal?
L461[19:30:59] <g> libraries*
L462[19:31:10] <Xal> g: if possible, yes
L463[19:31:16] <g> works great on linux, shame most of the world doesn't run that
L464[19:31:17] <g> :P
L465[19:31:39] <g> versioning can still be a problem too
L466[19:33:22] <g> if you're just targetting linux then electron is kind of unnecessary, but for an app like this, you're basically dooming it by locking it to an OS with such a small desktop share
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L468[19:33:36] <CompanionCube> doesn't macos have the concept of shared frameworks
L469[19:33:50] <g> it doesn't really have a package manager for that
L470[19:33:55] <g> unless you've installed homebrew
L471[19:34:03] <g> which is mostly a developer tool anyway
L472[19:34:28] <CompanionCube> if only the OS was not deficient in that area....
L473[19:35:26] <Inari> Xal: What your suggested alternative? nw.js?
L474[19:35:35] <g> "not using javascript"
L475[19:36:03] <Inari> Well thats not an alternative
L476[19:36:09] <CompanionCube> the closest good alternative imo is either standard web pages, native UI toolkits, or React Native
L477[19:36:10] <g> I mean they did say that earlier
L478[19:36:14] <CompanionCube> depending on how you want to roll
L479[19:36:37] <Inari> React native sucks. Native UI toolkits tend to not use html/css/js, and standard web pages can't access files
L480[19:36:43] <Inari> Or operate in standalone windows for that mtter
L481[19:36:58] <g> chrome apps?
L482[19:37:03] <g> they can look native-ish
L483[19:37:05] <Inari> Still needs chrome
L484[19:37:08] <g> yeah, true
L485[19:37:17] <Inari> Anyway
L486[19:37:18] <g> although then you get to target chromeos at least
L487[19:37:29] <g> which is a dubious bonus but yknow
L488[19:37:41] <CompanionCube> chrome apps were reasonably decent, albeit I wasn't a heavy user
L489[19:37:51] <CompanionCube> (and most of them were just lazy website links anyway)
L490[19:38:06] <g> I used to use one as a markdown editor
L491[19:38:08] <g> mado, I think it was
L492[19:41:32] <g> I have a really stupid discord project to work on once channel categories comes out too
L493[19:41:40] <g> ever wanted to use discord as your IRC client?
L494[19:41:41] <g> No?
L495[19:41:43] <g> Me neither, but fuck it
L496[19:41:46] <g> I'm gonna do it anyway
L497[19:44:15] <MineRobber9000> i want to do the opposite
L498[19:44:24] <MineRobber9000> ever wanted to use IRC as your Discord client?
L499[19:44:24] <g> you can already do that using bitlbee I think
L500[19:44:26] <MineRobber9000> no?
L501[19:44:31] <MineRobber9000> fuck it, I'll do it anyways
L502[19:44:58] <g> well the thing is
L503[19:45:01] <g> I lose features by doing that
L504[19:45:02] <g> lol
L505[19:45:14] <MineRobber9000> not really
L506[19:45:22] <g> How're you gonna do voice?
L507[19:45:23] <MineRobber9000> CTCP AVATAR exists
L508[19:45:26] <MineRobber9000> true
L509[19:45:31] <MineRobber9000> but fuck voice
L510[19:45:32] <g> and we have video now as well
L511[19:45:37] <MineRobber9000> and video
L512[19:45:42] <g> I use it :P
L513[19:45:47] <CompanionCube> if i wanted that kind of bridging i'd rather use Matrix :p
L514[19:45:56] <MineRobber9000> i can't (main PC has no webcam or mic)
L515[19:45:56] <g> does matrix support voice/video?
L516[19:46:02] <g> one of my servers has a bridge bot for it
L517[19:46:04] <CompanionCube> g: voice support definitely
L518[19:47:13] <CompanionCube> 'Voice (and video) over Matrix uses the WebRTC 1.0 standard to transfer call media (i.e. the actual voice and video traffic). Matrix is used to signal the establishment and termination of the call by sending call events, like any other event. '
L519[19:47:25] <g> same as discord then
L520[19:47:30] <g> unless the RTC is peer-to-peer
L521[19:47:41] <g> rather than through the server
L522[19:47:45] <MineRobber9000> anyhow
L523[19:47:51] <Skye> RTC is both I think
L524[19:48:00] <g> depends on the implementation
L525[19:48:10] <MineRobber9000> I think I'll find a server framework somewhere (a server I can edit functionality for)
L526[19:48:13] <g> discord only uses it to the server because their shtick is not exposing IP addresses
L527[19:48:18] <MineRobber9000> and make it communicate with discord
L528[19:48:44] <MineRobber9000> even if all communications go through a bot
L529[19:49:02] <g> webhooks are decent enough at making it not look like that
L530[19:49:03] <CompanionCube> hm, voip-related documentation mentions TURN
L531[19:49:09] <MineRobber9000> but for example, you can get all channels in a server
L532[19:49:20] <MineRobber9000> like you would all channel on an IRC network
L533[19:49:55] ⇦ Quits: Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@HSI-KBW-149-172-252-115.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L534[19:51:05] <g> mhm
L535[19:51:10] <g> well, it's 2am so I'm off, o/ for now
L536[19:51:37] <CompanionCube> ohey i found the spec
L537[19:51:38] <CompanionCube> https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/blob/master/specification/modules/voip_events.rst
L538[20:00:27] <MineRobber9000> is there any simple way to uselessly yield in OC? (i.e; CC's "sleep(0)")
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L540[20:05:11] <Skye> MineRobber9000, yes but it does eat events
L541[20:07:39] <MineRobber9000> os.sleep(0)?
L542[20:08:00] <MineRobber9000> also, I now have 75% coverage for the Howl OC platform
L543[20:08:30] <Skye> so can NOT run in any event handlers.
L544[20:08:34] <Skye> event.pull(0)
L545[20:09:22] <MineRobber9000> what does "os.sleep(0)" entail? does *it* eat events?
L546[20:10:27] <gamax92> signals are received by yielding in both OC and CC
L547[20:11:43] <gamax92> so things like sleep or os.sleep will end up eating signals in the sense that a pull after a sleep might not get a few signals
L548[20:12:19] <gamax92> event listeners however should still get their signals during a sleep iirc
L549[20:12:40] <MineRobber9000> I'd think that sleeping for a whole **one** tick shouldn't be too event-gobbling
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L551[20:13:05] <gamax92> sleeping for a tick could eat up to 4 signals
L552[20:13:45] <gamax92> since oc's computers don't run server tick based but in their own thread pool with 12ms pauses between thread execution
L553[20:14:30] <Skye> payonel has a new thread system that keeps events safe
L554[20:14:48] <gamax92> I'm not sure how that related but okay
L555[20:16:22] <MineRobber9000> Skye: so that would be like CC's parallel API? all threads get all events?
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L558[20:29:33] <Skye> MineRobber9000, yes, it was made specically to be an eqivalent but being more poweful from what I understand
L559[20:30:43] <Xal> MineRobber9000: what's your intended usecase for Howl OC?
L560[20:37:17] <MineRobber9000> I want to give back to people who use Howl and are following a natural progression from ComputerCraft to OC
L561[20:37:20] <MineRobber9000> like me
L562[20:38:34] <MineRobber9000> so far, I've implemented 75% of the platform-specific hooks that Howl uses
L563[20:38:56] <MineRobber9000> https://github.com/MineRobber9000/Howl/blob/master/howl/platform/oc.lua
L564[20:39:23] <MineRobber9000> I've also added a check for OC (if _G.component then return (OC version of platform setup))
L565[20:39:55] <MineRobber9000> I have a question: what happens if internet.open fails?
L566[20:40:16] <MineRobber9000> as in: what happens if it can't get the page
L567[20:41:05] <MineRobber9000> does it throw an error?
L568[20:43:21] <Izaya> does this Howl run on the machines it targets?
L569[20:43:29] <MineRobber9000> ?
L570[20:43:47] <MineRobber9000> it's like GNU make had a baby with Grunt or Rake
L571[20:43:55] <MineRobber9000> i.e; "Howl build"
L572[20:44:03] <Izaya> does it run on CC or OC computers?
L573[20:44:13] <MineRobber9000> currently only CC and native
L574[20:44:18] <MineRobber9000> I'm adding OC support
L575[20:44:25] <Izaya> ah okay
L576[20:44:35] <MineRobber9000> SquidDev made Howl, I'm adding the feature in a PR
L577[20:44:47] * Izaya is using a custom build system for his OS
L578[20:45:10] <MineRobber9000> some holdups I'm having: how do you set text color on an OC computer?
L579[20:45:27] <MineRobber9000> also, see my above question (re: internet.open;)
L580[20:45:42] <CompanionCube> ~w term
L581[20:45:42] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:term
L582[20:45:54] <Izaya> VT100 escape codes would be preffered
L583[20:46:16] <CompanionCube> ~w gpu
L584[20:46:16] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component:gpu
L585[20:46:21] <Izaya> works on real computers and OC computers
L586[20:46:48] <MineRobber9000> Izaya: that's what the native version uses, I'd assume
L587[20:47:31] <Izaya> quite possibly
L588[20:50:51] <MineRobber9000> with this latest commit, I now have 82% coverage (24 implemented functions to my standards / 29 total methods)
L589[20:55:11] <Celtic> Inari , dunno if you're still around or not, but Sublime test should automatically just keep your open files between sessions? Mine does at least.
L590[20:55:27] <Celtic> I'm using it on Windows though, so possibly a difference, if you're running it on a different platform?
L591[20:55:40] <Celtic> text*... derp
L592[21:01:02] <MineRobber9000> 93% coverage for Howl OC
L593[21:01:14] <MineRobber9000> now to attempt to finish it up
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L603[23:11:54] <Kodos> Another 10% of users got video/SS on here
L604[23:14:19] <Saphire> Flap
L605[23:14:26] <Saphire> I'm bored again
L606[23:14:40] <Syrren> Saphire: have a thing https://www.alchemistowl.org/pocorgtfo/
L607[23:17:56] <Saphire> Wat?
L608[23:21:05] <payonel> gamax92: yes, listeners get their events during sleeps
L609[23:21:10] <payonel> MineRobber9000: ^
L610[23:22:56] <Syrren> Saphire: samizdat-esque scientific journal of various cool exploits. Most of those PDFs are also ZIP files, containing relevant source code
L611[23:24:27] <payonel> MineRobber9000: you can set text color with gpu.setForeground and gpu.setBackground -- though i prefer ppl not use gpu directly if they can
L612[23:24:58] <payonel> you can set colors with vt100 codes, such as io.write("\27[31mHello\27[m")
L613[23:25:59] <Saphire> I see..
L614[23:26:40] <Saphire> payonel: ooooh, cool.
L615[23:27:00] <Saphire> Heh
L616[23:27:11] <Saphire> The best thing about OC is the screen resolution...
L617[23:27:31] <Saphire> AND LACK OF FIXED ONE HAHA SUCK IT, LOVERS OF HARDCODED GUIs
L618[23:27:38] * Saphire hides
L619[23:52:41] <gamax92> head ache is going away
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