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L5[01:26:47] <gamax92> ahh that'll work
L6[01:27:02] <Inari> gamax92: :o
L7[01:27:07] <gamax92> hey Inari
L8[01:27:13] <Inari> :o
L9[01:27:16] <Inari> Ohi
L10[01:29:17] <gamax92> I'll write a tool to output a spectrograph with the allophones highlighted according to where the labeler thinks they are
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L12[02:31:45] <gamax92> okay yeah, the labeler is having a great time with the subtle noise in the audio
L13[02:55:13] <gamax92> https://i.imgur.com/mHYCt1B.png total failure
L14[03:03:26] <Izaya> Skye: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Preload https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Prelink for fun with caching
L15[04:05:07] <Izaya> https://i.imgur.com/fbAONc6.png
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L18[04:36:33] <logan2611> not enough linux
L19[04:40:20] <Izaya> normally I would agree, but I can't play GTA5 on Linux
L20[04:41:16] <Izaya> Huh. 7zip can open .DMGs
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L35[06:55:56] <Celtic> Hey all. Any of you aware of whether or not OC still supports RFTools stuff? o-o
L36[07:02:52] <Forecaster> it might
L37[07:03:04] <Forecaster> if you have both loaded it's pretty easy to find out
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L49[09:04:16] <gerard> http://sc.gerard.pw/idea64_2017-08-11_16-04-13.png
L50[09:04:19] <gerard> Getting somewhere
L51[09:05:44] <Temia> At that point I wonder if it'd be just easier to implement Gopher.
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L53[09:36:17] <Forecaster> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQdnb0iRAQA
L54[09:36:20] <MichiBot> Crushing Power Bank with Hydraulic Press | HUGE EXPLOSION! | length: 10m 4s | Likes: 733 Dislikes: 14 Views: 5,201 | by Hydraulic Press Channel | Published On 11/8/2017
L55[09:36:53] <Forecaster> "tablet computers"
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L82[11:37:29] *** ipo.esper.net sets mode: +o Lizzy
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L85[11:43:10] <Forecaster> agh, the splits!
L86[11:44:35] <Forecaster> hm... making a permission system becomes a lot more complicated when you have projects that can have multiple users...
L87[11:50:25] <Inari> But why would you need permissions with only one user!
L88[11:51:03] <Forecaster> I never said there'd ever only be one user :P
L89[11:51:28] <Forecaster> the previous system I made this for didn't have projects, it was just a single entity with multiple users
L90[11:51:54] <Inari> What are you making anyway
L91[11:52:19] <Forecaster> I'm re-building my YouTube video manager from scratch
L92[11:52:33] <Forecaster> because the prototype I'm using currently is horrible
L93[11:52:44] <Inari> Ah
L94[11:53:26] <Forecaster> it works... for the most part, but it's horrible
L95[11:53:45] <Forecaster> it's also hard-coded to my account, and can't support multiple users
L96[11:53:46] <gamax92> Hello
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L98[11:53:59] <Forecaster> hi gamax
L99[11:54:32] <Inari> CAn't be worse than this anime downloader I'm cobbling together :P
L100[11:54:44] <Forecaster> I'm not looking forward to another fight with the YouTube api...
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L102[11:57:53] <Forecaster> Inari: we can trade, you'll figure out the youtube API for me and I'll make you a downloader :P
L103[11:58:21] <Inari> I meant that your code/thingy can't be worse than my thingy :P
L104[11:58:34] <Inari> Is the youtube api that bad? o.o
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L106[11:58:53] <Forecaster> reading any documentation for a massive system is not fun :P
L107[11:59:39] <Forecaster> and my thing is probably worse because it's massive, a mess and parts of it aren't working correctly
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L109[12:04:02] <Temia> I need more cute fairies in my life
L110[12:04:13] <Forecaster> and it contains thousands of lines of code...
L111[12:04:16] <Forecaster> it's a big project
L112[12:04:30] * Temia sits and laments the lack of fairies in her life. :<
L113[12:04:40] <Forecaster> I hear Hyrule has fairies
L114[12:05:09] <Temia> eeeennh. They're so tangential though.
L115[12:06:01] <Forecaster> how so?
L116[12:06:49] <Forecaster> I wasn't really saying "go play a zelda game" :P
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L118[12:25:22] <Forecaster> https://xkcd.com/1875/
L119[12:25:22] <MichiBot> XKCD Comic Name: Computers vs Humans Posted on: 8/11/2017
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L122[12:55:46] * Inari massages catnip oil into AmandaC's fur
L123[12:56:37] <gamax92> oh my
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L126[13:13:15] <Inari> \o/ http://tinyurl.com/ybuh5dg3
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L128[13:20:08] <Inari> https://www.reddit.com/r/aww/comments/6sy0l6/doggo_doing_a_costly_miscalculate/dlgwrty/
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L131[13:43:59] <gamax92> Inari's playing with React now?
L132[13:58:36] <Inari> gamax92: Ya
L133[13:58:42] <Inari> In electron
L134[13:58:42] <Inari> :D
L135[14:04:59] <vifino> All of the bad decisions.
L136[14:07:07] <CompanionCube> ^
L137[14:07:12] <CompanionCube> Inari: why not react native
L138[14:07:32] <Inari> Mostly cause I've never even heard of that :P
L139[14:08:41] <AmandaC> React Native is only super-alpha on non-mobile, last I heard.
L140[14:08:59] <AmandaC> And it uses the WinRT stuff so it has to be on win10
L141[14:09:27] <Inari> Doesn't sound great
L142[14:12:46] <Inari> Mostly using react cause I want to learn it anyway, and I find JS somewhat nicer to use than say C#. Also has more libraries readily available. And for all my complaining about webdev, designing interfaces with html/css/js is actaully kinda nice
L143[14:13:45] <AmandaC> using electron is no better/worse than using GTK. GTK doesn't use native widgets on mac/win, either.
L144[14:14:00] <AmandaC> ( Last I looked )
L145[14:14:20] <CompanionCube> AmandaC: that's a good point.
L146[14:14:35] <CompanionCube> (although it'd be more lightweight than Electron)
L147[14:15:05] <AmandaC> Most of what I hear people with non-potato computers bitching about with electron is non-native look & feel.
L148[14:15:36] <CompanionCube> I'd agree with you there
L149[14:16:26] <AmandaC> And, well, I don't think "My computer is from the 90s and it can't run this tech" is a valid argument against that tech.
L150[14:16:54] <Forecaster> sometimes performance can be important though
L151[14:17:25] <Forecaster> not always a major concern either of course
L152[14:19:55] <AmandaC> sure, but that's not a reason to outright dismiss / 'ew' at a tech as a knee-jerk reaction, imho.
L153[14:20:27] <Inari> CAn code performance critical stuff in C and use ffi ;D
L154[14:20:58] * CompanionCube would be more concerned about usage when running multiple electron apps...or when running something like Slack
L155[14:21:40] <AmandaC> most ram hogging from electron apps can be solved by "reloading" the webview in it. It's just the backlog of chats gone by that wasn't free'd properly
L156[14:22:18] <Inari> one thing I don't like about electron is that it makes each app have a lot more MB that required. I'd rather you could install an electron framework or so, like you can do with .net
L157[14:22:25] <Inari> And then not every electron app would have to have electron in it
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L159[14:23:16] <AmandaC> And the backlog going dangling is more on slack / IRCCloud / discord / etc than on electron itself.
L160[14:23:58] <AmandaC> It could be argued that electron should have some better memory profiling stuff, but that's about the extent of the blame I'd place on it.
L161[14:24:01] <CompanionCube> Inari: that would solve two of the consequences of electron
L162[14:24:13] <CompanionCube> (duplication of resources with multiple apps)
L163[14:24:29] <AmandaC> someone made a flatpak base image for electron, which is pretty much exactly that. Only for Linux, tho
L164[14:26:12] * AmandaC wonders if it'd be possible / reasonable for the linux kernel to de-dupe ccommon binaries, even if they're run from different fs paths. If the memory segment is marked RO, that shouldn't be too dangerous to do, just expensive to detect
L165[14:26:43] <AmandaC> That said, that assumes everything uses the same electron version.
L166[14:27:24] <CompanionCube> ahahahah no.
L167[14:28:24] <AmandaC> ofc, everything using different versions of electron would negate the download savings anyway.
L168[14:34:51] <Xal> AmandaC: if you launch a binary multiple times it'll only load .text once, no?
L169[14:35:41] <AmandaC> Xal: I'm under the impression it's only per-file, so if you have /foo/bin/electron and /bar/bin/electron, even if they're the same version, same binary, it's still being duped
L170[14:35:50] <Inari> It's less even abuot download savings
L171[14:36:00] <Inari> I just hate my "simplecalc.exe" app being 60mb when it should be 500kb
L172[14:36:00] <Inari> :D
L173[14:36:18] <Forecaster> if that's a concern then don't use electron :P
L174[14:36:23] <Forecaster> because that's what electron does
L175[14:36:32] <Inari> If you have a better way to use react on desktop
L176[14:36:33] <Forecaster> or require using the framework
L177[14:36:41] <Forecaster> I don't
L178[14:36:48] <Forecaster> I mean, I use nw.js but that has the same issue
L179[14:36:50] <CompanionCube> Inari: http://www.red-lang.org/ not electron but
L180[14:37:02] <Inari> And yes, I know, thats why I complained about electron not having a library version
L181[14:38:01] <Forecaster> I know with nw.js you can run an app with a central nw.js installation
L182[14:38:13] <Xal> AmandaC: I wonder how common that actually is
L183[14:38:16] <Forecaster> but it's not as user friendly as having a self-contained application
L184[14:38:43] <AmandaC> Xal: the common user? Probably fairly common.
L185[14:39:38] <CompanionCube> there's a nice tweet
L186[14:39:41] <AmandaC> If you have a friend who uses Skype and a friend who uses Discord, that's already two electron instances.
L187[14:39:44] <Inari> CompanionCube: I don't get it
L188[14:40:02] <AmandaC> inb4 "lol just use irc"
L189[14:40:28] <Xal> i hate electron so much
L190[14:41:13] <AmandaC> And I'm sure you are totally avoiding all the logic pitfalls I outlined earlier, too?
L191[14:41:26] <CompanionCube> https://twitter.com/jacobrossi/status/851991906112475137
L192[14:41:27] <MichiBot> Tue Apr 11 21:54:34 CDT 2017 @jacobrossi: @shiftkey some (scary) data here, in 2016 we looked at 98 top electron apps: 44 diff vers Electron host, 16 vers of… https://t.co/b6niykfPoj
L193[14:42:56] <Xal> why can't these electron nerds just use qt
L194[14:43:05] <Xal> electron apps looks gaudy and out of place
L195[14:43:25] <AmandaC> Xal: GTK apps don't?
L196[14:43:28] <Xal> and they always seem to be sluggish compared to how snappy all the native apps feel
L197[14:43:30] <AmandaC> ( on mac/win)
L198[14:43:49] <CompanionCube> Xal: the reason is JavaScript and web
L199[14:44:00] <AmandaC> And "why not QT" is like saying "Why not ASM?" to a C programmer.
L200[14:44:55] <CompanionCube> (ignoring the fact that Qt has a good JS story doesn't it?)
L201[14:44:57] <gamax92> lol Qt
L202[14:45:11] <AmandaC> There's also the fact if you wanted to write a native app for every platform, that's the same app ~5-6 times, and then people get angry about feature patiry being off
L203[14:45:11] <Inari> Xal: Cause CSS/html/js is nice to work with to create interfaces
L204[14:45:15] <gamax92> replace a giant bloat framework with another giant bloat framework
L205[14:46:05] <AmandaC> People chose electron because the reason Inari just described, and because it allows a smaller team to target a wider audience.
L206[14:46:25] * CompanionCube likes Qt's ability to use your GTK theme
L207[14:46:31] <CompanionCube> why can't Electron do sometihng similar?
L208[14:47:11] <AmandaC> CompanionCube: because the nessary primitives are fundementally different. React Native does that, but not very well on desktop (yet)
L209[14:47:29] <AmandaC> There's also stuff like Dart/Flutter
L210[14:47:47] <AmandaC> But they just take the Electron/GTK approch of "draw errythang"
L211[14:48:56] <AmandaC> And "why not have a common base for all these platforms"? because the various platforms can't even decide on what should be a basicc primitive. I'm sure this creeps in even for GTK/QT native apps on a linux desktop
L212[14:49:52] <Xal> ~~~why are gui toolkits such a messss?~~~
L213[14:49:53] <AmandaC> Long story short: UX is Hard™ and everyone wants their way to be the one-true-way without considering the needs / archeticture of other ways.
L214[14:50:17] <CompanionCube> Xal: /me pulls back the curtain of Emacs's UI
L215[14:50:27] <CompanionCube> look upon the horror in shock
L216[14:50:54] <AmandaC> Apple relies heavily on a fucking mess of XML for definining UI and data binding stuff, and provides inconsistant and ugly code points for doing the same thing.
L217[14:51:16] <AmandaC> When I first got my mac, I threw together an emoji preview app with <50 lines of self-written code.
L218[14:51:47] <AmandaC> It was just "this textview gets it's data from this inputview and makes it big" expressed as 1000 lines of XCode XML
L219[14:52:30] <AmandaC> I'm sure there's similar stories and strengths in other platforms. That's why GUIs are such a clusterfuck.
L220[14:52:33] <CompanionCube> it's a decent idea...even if it doesn't truly belong to Apple
L221[14:52:56] <AmandaC> Nobody can agree on what belongs in the "core" of a GUI toolkit.
L222[14:53:14] <AmandaC> So there's no real abstraction among them all, other than "Ph hey, let's just draw it all ourselves" as GTK/Electron does
L223[14:53:56] <AmandaC> Qt gets around this by doing a hybrid approch. It decided on it's core, and where possible it uses the native equivilent, but as a result it's very slow-moving
L224[14:54:05] <AmandaC> ( development-feature-adding wise )
L225[14:54:28] * Inari is proud of what she started
L226[14:54:46] <AmandaC> And as a result it's also not fully feature parity on different platforms, because those native widgets don't always agree on some aspect of what that widget's role is.
L227[14:55:06] <AmandaC> Anyway, I'll stop now, mostly because I'm sure I've talked everyone's ears off
L228[14:55:15] * AmandaC curls up in Inari's lap, contemplates a nap
L229[14:55:35] * Inari continues massaging the oil from earlier into AmandaC's fur
L230[14:55:44] * AmandaC sighs, accepting her fate
L231[14:55:51] * CompanionCube watches Inari
L232[14:55:55] <Inari> ;D
L233[14:57:21] * AmandaC has probably put far too many thought-cycles into UI and GUI and why it's such a clusterfuck over the years.
L234[14:57:58] <Forecaster> or is it not enough cycles?!
L235[14:58:30] <AmandaC> But it basically boils down to nobody agrees what's important or how it should get input events. Windows has an event pump you have to manually run. mac uses callback hell, etc.
L236[15:00:53] <AmandaC> Forecaster: given my last like, halfhour-hour of lines, I'm going with "too much" :P
L237[15:01:18] <Forecaster> but what if you just spent a few more years you'll have an epiphany that will solve everything D:
L238[15:01:37] <AmandaC> Forecaster: I already had that epiphany, it was "FUBAR"
L239[15:02:24] <AmandaC> Just settle for something like electron/gtk/etc, or write the same program at least 6 times
L240[15:02:35] <AmandaC> ( and probably get yelled at anyway )
L241[15:02:57] <AmandaC> %choose br or lr
L242[15:02:58] <MichiBot> AmandaC: br
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L256[15:51:11] <payonel> o/
L257[15:52:04] ⇨ Joins: Glastis (webchat@82.229.48.75)
L258[15:52:32] <Glastis> hi \o
L259[16:09:34] <Glastis> ... is there someone alive ?
L260[16:12:02] <g> Nobody but us chickens
L261[16:12:59] <payonel> bak bak
L262[16:14:13] <Glastis> New on forum and irc... still searching if a robot "general api" is existing
L263[16:14:38] <payonel> general?
L264[16:14:41] <payonel> ~w robot
L265[16:14:42] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/api:robot
L266[16:15:17] <Glastis> Well, i was thinking to an highter level one
L267[16:15:51] <payonel> also...that wiki is out of date
L268[16:15:52] <payonel> what the crap
L269[16:16:29] <Glastis> In fact I have one but developping a all-purpose-encapsulation take lot of time and i'm searching some collaborators
L270[16:16:50] <payonel> how be your lua?
L271[16:16:55] <Glastis> ehh
L272[16:17:00] <Glastis> i let you juge
L273[16:17:13] <Glastis> https://github.com/Glastis/OpenComputers-Robots-Toolbox
L274[16:18:14] <Glastis> I'm not an expert :)
L275[16:19:24] <payonel> `if frequency_iter > 2000000000 then --in case of scipt running non-stop 63 years.`
L276[16:19:34] <payonel> a reasonable check
L277[16:19:36] <payonel> :)
L278[16:20:39] <Glastis> haha i'ts the "example program" cause i haven't documented anything for now
L279[16:20:47] <Glastis> bad practice...
L280[16:21:50] <Glastis> Well, i don't find another 'toolbox' on forum. I will post.
L281[16:22:54] <payonel> i keep hoping ppl will document openos for me on the wiki
L282[16:23:01] <payonel> but that (almost) never happens
L283[16:23:04] <payonel> so...yeah
L284[16:27:58] <Glastis> For you?
L285[16:28:11] <Glastis> You did it? Oo
L286[16:30:16] <payonel> i've only been involved for the last 2 years
L287[16:30:55] <Glastis> nice
L288[16:56:45] <xarses_> need some insigt, how you adapt socket.select and v:recive calls in https://github.com/Overtorment/NoobHub/blob/master/client/lua-corona/noobhub.lua#L83-L114 to work with the internet card
L289[16:57:08] <payonel> well for select --
L290[16:57:20] <payonel> just do a read 0 and have a internet_ready handler
L291[16:57:24] <payonel> an*
L292[16:59:11] <xarses_> read(0) as in 0 bytes?
L293[16:59:18] <payonel> mhmm
L294[16:59:29] <xarses_> internet_ready as in the event?
L295[16:59:33] <payonel> yes
L296[16:59:37] <payonel> i think
L297[16:59:39] <payonel> i can check
L298[16:59:39] <payonel> sec
L299[17:00:00] <payonel> eayh
L300[17:00:11] <payonel> yes*
L301[17:00:28] <xarses_> uh, I hate that all the signals are on the one page
L302[17:00:46] <xarses_> and love it too
L303[17:00:51] <payonel> well and it is missing that event
L304[17:00:59] <xarses_> oh, its missing that one too
L305[17:01:05] <xarses_> ^
L306[17:01:15] * payonel throws money at xarses_, yelling "fix the wiki for me!"
L307[17:01:26] <xarses_> will do
L308[17:01:59] <xarses_> I've fallen so far down the rabbit hole...
L309[17:03:13] <xarses_> neat, so I should be able to totally re-use this super complicated pub/sub code =)
L310[17:04:17] <xarses_> and fake the lack of a real socket api
L311[17:04:32] <xarses_> neato
L312[17:04:43] * xarses_ bounces around all happy
L313[17:04:55] <payonel> haha
L314[17:07:22] * xarses_ bypasses p2p cards for more useful internet cards
L315[17:10:24] <xarses_> and point to multi-point tunnels
L316[17:17:24] <payonel> networking is a lot of fun in oc
L317[17:18:09] <Glastis> Fun... same fun that dwarf fortress's one?
L318[17:18:15] <Glastis> :)
L319[17:18:16] <payonel> haha, no
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L321[17:25:15] <xarses_> isn't it though?
L322[17:25:16] <payonel> haha, no
L323[17:27:18] <payonel> haha, no
L324[17:27:29] <payonel> derp, up+enter wrong terminal
L325[17:30:07] * vifino removes payonel's arrow keys and enter key
L326[17:30:22] <vifino> Fixed the problem entirely.
L327[17:33:59] * Glastis remove 2, 4, 6, 8 and enter key on vifino's numpad
L328[17:34:15] <Glastis> Seems you forget theses ones :)
L329[17:34:21] <Glastis> forgot
L330[17:34:38] <payonel> ha! but didn't remove MY numpad enter key
L331[17:34:49] * payonel literally used his numpad enter key
L332[17:35:06] <vifino> Glastis: I don't have a numpad, so can't say I am affected.
L333[17:35:26] <vifino> My mech at home has one, but I don't use it, really.
L334[17:35:27] ⇦ Quits: xarses_ (~xarses@67.218.117.197) (Ping timeout: 383 seconds)
L335[17:35:42] * vifino removes all of payonel's keys
L336[17:35:47] <Glastis> x)
L337[17:35:54] <vifino> There, now it's fixed, payonel.
L338[17:37:34] * CompanionCube removes vifino's compiler
L339[17:37:38] <Glastis> It can still develop with google voice recognition... on android phone
L340[17:37:42] <Glastis> oh
L341[17:37:44] <vifino> How dare you, CompanionCube?!
L342[17:37:57] <CompanionCube> vifino: i can give you one back
L343[17:38:08] * vifino explodes in rage, fetches a stage3 and extracts the bootstrap compiler
L344[17:38:25] * CompanionCube replaces it with an unriced GCC 4.x and sets the immutable bit on everything
L345[17:39:18] <vifino> no no no, this is not okay.
L346[17:39:31] <vifino> i am not okay with this.
L347[17:39:40] <vifino> gentoo'
L348[17:39:41] <CompanionCube> vifino: it could be rowrse
L349[17:39:58] <CompanionCube> i could've replaced it with a intel's or a proprietary one
L350[17:39:59] <vifino> gentoo's 4.9 is only acceptable because it has literally dozens of patches.
L351[17:40:08] <vifino> CompanionCube: icc ain't bad
L352[17:43:41] <Glastis> ehh get disconnected while posting my fist topic... don't know if it successfully submited or just vanished
L353[17:43:59] <Glastis> *first
L354[17:44:03] <Glastis> damn first
L355[17:44:46] <vifino> Inari would have a field day over your typo.
L356[17:47:08] <Glastis> x)
L357[17:52:43] <Inari> Eh, not actually into fisting
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L364[18:22:39] <Glastis> Damn making documentation is really, really painfull
L365[18:22:47] <Glastis> no fun allowed in this part
L366[18:23:56] <CompanionCube> such is life.
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L368[18:30:20] <xarses> payonel: fortunately numpad enter doesn't count in OC
L369[18:30:33] <payonel> jerk
L370[18:30:39] <payonel> i fixed that :P
L371[18:30:44] <xarses> =P
L372[18:30:55] <xarses> you did?
L373[18:30:59] <payonel> yeah haha
L374[18:31:02] * xarses missed the memo
L375[18:31:04] <payonel> that was like ...
L376[18:31:10] <payonel> maybe a year ago :)
L377[18:31:15] <payonel> i don't know
L378[18:31:33] <xarses> eh, my OC version on the server is from jan still
L379[18:31:36] <xarses> =/
L380[18:37:38] <Glastis> Is it possible to move an item from a slot in a chest to another slot in the same chest without using robot's an inventory as swap?
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L383[18:45:30] <xarses> id expect so
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L385[18:48:21] <Glastis> With which function? I can't find it in wiki...
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L392[19:44:29] <Celtic> If I'm in Lua on OC and I do the =component.xxx command, it gives me a list of the commands, but if it has an ellipses on it (...), does that imply there's more information? If so, is there a "verbose" mode, or a continue of some kind I can use?
L393[19:44:46] <Celtic> Or do I have to read up more on a Wiki for the info?
L394[19:45:19] <CompanionCube> ~w component
L395[19:45:19] <ocdoc> http://ocd.cil.li/component
L396[19:46:45] <Celtic> I've literally been reading through all of this for 15-20 minutes now.
L397[19:46:50] <Celtic> I'm asking because I can't find anything. ?
L398[19:49:01] <CompanionCube> in addition to the wiki?
L399[19:50:25] <Celtic> "the wiki", implying the OC wiki? Cause if so, that's what I've been reading, yes.
L400[19:51:15] <CompanionCube> yes
L401[19:52:08] <CompanionCube> using the lua interpreter you can show the entries in a table, but it won't tell you how to use them
L402[19:52:43] <Celtic> I'm referring to the documentation that a component provides.
L403[19:53:16] <Celtic> So if you type `=component.xyz` it'll return with some text about the methods you can call.
L404[19:53:51] <Celtic> But in my case, there's a `...` on the last line, and I'm curious if that implies that there is more information avaliable, or if it's just a clarity thing added to show "end of file" or something?
L405[19:54:22] <Celtic> Sorry, forgot IRC probably doesn't support the back-tick highlighting.
L406[20:01:44] <CompanionCube> that's not any special documentation i believe. Just the return value of whatever's after the =
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