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L18[02:06:02] <Corded> * Lizzy picks up vifino and takes him to work with her
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L58[04:24:36] <Forecaster> Mimiru: I accidentally added line filtering by type to oclogs
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L75[04:57:58] <Inari> There
L76[04:58:00] <Inari> fixed autojoin stuff
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L99[06:14:42] <LuMistry> Greetings
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L108[07:00:34] <Mimiru> Forecaster?
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L110[07:02:22] <Forecaster> woop
L111[07:02:40] <MGR> ooh
L112[07:02:45] <MGR> Discord has a search function now
L113[07:02:59] <Forecaster> since the last update yeah
L114[07:03:20] <Forecaster> Mimiru: !!
L115[07:04:43] <Forecaster> https://gist.github.com/Forecaster/78c74448d2dd64b99b2904bc46dbebe0/revisions
L116[07:04:46] <Lizzy> meeeemeeeeeeroooooooooo
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L120[07:12:10] <Inari> Star Citizen 2.6 is still crap, oh well, here's hoping for 3.0
L121[07:12:40] <MGR> Inari, in my opinion, I think Star Citizen could be the greatest long-con in all of history XD
L122[07:12:56] <MGR> It's still not finished, right?
L123[07:18:25] <Inari> Well its a huge game. Less ambitiou sgames have been ind evelopment for 7 years or longer
L124[07:18:26] <Inari> So
L125[07:19:01] <MGR> There is still a very large chance I am wrong
L126[07:19:05] <MGR> I would be happy if I was wrong
L127[07:19:23] <Inari> I wish there was a good way to have OC use GUIs
L128[07:20:27] <MGR> Inari, what are you looking for in particular?
L129[07:20:41] <MGR> Built in buttons SoniEx2 style, or something else?
L130[07:21:00] <Inari> Just the ability for OC robots to use buttons and GUIs :P
L131[07:22:02] <MGR> you mean robots being able to interact with a screen?
L132[07:22:18] <Forecaster> by "good way" you mean "so I don't have to code it"
L133[07:22:19] <Forecaster> :P
L134[07:25:00] <Inari> Forecaster: Theres just no good way to do it
L135[07:25:18] <Inari> As the server doesn't load the client GUI classes and such
L136[07:25:36] <Inari> MGR: I mean ability for it to be like blah.openUI() blah.clickUI(x,y) etc
L137[07:25:44] <Inari> After all, not all machines support OC unfortunately
L138[07:26:29] <MGR> Inari, oh you mean for robots to interact with other mods' blocks' GUIs
L139[07:26:50] <MGR> that's actually a pretty good idea
L140[07:27:32] <Forecaster> oh
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L143[07:42:05] <Inari> MGR: Yeah, but hard to make :P
L144[07:42:16] <MGR> Inari, of course!
L145[07:42:24] <Inari> I just thought about doing one of those "Do everything through robots" things, but not being able to use UIs kinda kills that
L146[07:42:26] <MGR> If it's easy, it probably isn't a good idea ?
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L148[07:42:41] <MGR> Inari, it would also let them turn computers on
L149[07:42:52] <MGR> which would finally let me realize the ultimate dream
L150[07:43:24] <Totoro> they can turn computers on, iirc
L151[07:43:46] <MGR> Totoro, since when?
L152[07:43:58] <Vexatos> 1.5.something?
L153[07:44:02] <Totoro> there is that Wake-On-Lan thing
L154[07:44:09] <Totoro> and sneak-activation
L155[07:44:10] <Lizzy> the player can shift right-click to turn a PC on, why not a robot?
L156[07:44:13] <MGR> oh, I'm not talking about WOL
L157[07:44:19] <MGR> waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
L158[07:44:26] <MGR> I've been lied to
L159[07:44:40] <Lizzy> same for the servers in racks but they'll need to be aimed at
L160[07:44:41] <MGR> I'vvvvvvvvveee beeeeeeeeeeeeeeen liiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiied tooooooooooooooooo
L161[07:44:47] <MGR> arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg
L162[07:45:01] <MGR> Well, I still won't be able to follow up on this for many months ?
L163[07:46:03] <Lizzy> i think robots can pretty much use any tool they can equip as long as it's functionality can be done in left/right clicks
L164[07:46:15] <Lizzy> like linking railcraft signals for instance
L165[07:46:36] <MGR> I don't understand why nobody brought up the shift right click functionality when I asked about this before ?
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L167[07:47:07] <Forecaster> cuz we're all derps
L168[07:47:17] <MGR> Forecaster, it sounds like it
L169[07:47:26] <Forecaster> I mean, you weren't worthy of that knowledge at the time
L170[07:47:27] <Forecaster> yes
L171[07:47:32] <MGR> of course!
L172[07:47:43] <Vexatos> He still isn't
L173[07:47:48] <MGR> and I just created the unholy fusion of TACEATS-U + GERT
L174[07:47:53] <Vexatos> Noone is until they delve into OC source code
L175[07:48:24] <MGR> Vexatos, does reading the source code of the lua side count?
L176[07:48:38] <MGR> e.g. event.lua
L177[07:48:40] <Forecaster> I found out by accident by shift-clicking a case one time :P
L178[07:49:18] <Vexatos> I found out.....
L179[07:49:20] <Vexatos> I don't know
L180[07:49:22] <Vexatos> I always knew
L181[07:49:23] <Vexatos> ._.
L182[07:49:27] <Vexatos> I was born knowing
L183[07:49:42] <Mimiru> I... saw it on the wiki.. :P
L184[07:49:54] <Totoro> i read it in the changelog :)
L185[07:53:46] <MGR> so, would anyone care to give a brief explanation of how internet.open works?
L186[07:54:01] <MGR> I'm going to dive in-depth tomorrow, but I wanted to get the gears turning today
L187[07:54:28] <Vexatos> internet.open
L188[07:54:28] <Forecaster> it's like turning a valve, but on the internet tubes
L189[07:54:29] <Vexatos> well
L190[07:54:31] <Vexatos> it opens your internet
L191[07:54:37] <Vexatos> yea
L192[07:55:06] <MGR> I'm actually trying to learn something, because I want to contribute
L193[07:55:15] <Vexatos> Imagine you have five internets, you open your own internet, then you can access the other four
L194[07:55:37] <MGR> perhaps I was a little vague
L195[07:55:37] <Forecaster> read the documentation and/or code
L196[07:55:46] <Vexatos> MGR: Opens a TCP socket
L197[07:55:52] <Vexatos> is that specific enough?
L198[07:55:56] <MGR> I want to have something like internet.open, but works on modem messages
L199[07:56:19] <Vexatos> well then implement TCP
L200[07:56:30] <MGR> I was looking at the code, but it references metatables and stuff that I didn't understand when I skimmed it a couple days ago
L201[07:56:33] <Vexatos> oh wait
L202[07:56:37] <Vexatos> Magik6k has already done that
L203[07:56:40] <Vexatos> oppm install network
L204[07:56:42] <Vexatos> you're welcome
L205[07:57:06] <Vexatos> if you don't like metatables, please never look at Selene
L206[07:57:10] <MGR> That wouldn't exactly work for what I'm going for
L207[07:57:19] <MGR> It's not that I don't like metatables, I don't know how they work
L208[07:57:28] <MGR> I was just looking for a light explanation
L209[07:57:42] <Vexatos> MGR, but...
L210[07:57:54] <Vexatos> Magik's network is literally an implementation of tcp and udp
L211[07:57:58] <Vexatos> it is exactly what you asked for
L212[07:58:17] <MGR> I need to do that from inside a program though
L213[07:58:26] <MGR> and it can't download it from the internet
L214[07:58:30] <Vexatos> require("network")
L215[07:58:39] <Vexatos> ...
L216[07:58:44] <Vexatos> it's not that hard
L217[07:59:16] <MGR> I'm not that smart ?
L218[07:59:44] <MGR> more correctly, i'm looking to re-create internet.socket(), my apologies
L219[08:01:00] <MGR> Maybe I should table my request until tomorrow, when I can really focus on it
L220[08:01:07] <Vexatos> that is
L221[08:01:09] <Vexatos> quite literally
L222[08:01:14] <Vexatos> network.tcp.open
L223[08:01:25] <MGR> I can't download network though
L224[08:01:30] <Vexatos> oppm install network
L225[08:02:04] <MGR> I can't use oppm
L226[08:03:22] <Vexatos> why not .-.
L227[08:03:33] <MGR> Because the computers won't have internet access
L228[08:04:00] <Vexatos> then
L229[08:04:03] <Vexatos> install oppm
L230[08:04:07] <Vexatos> ...
L231[08:04:07] <MGR> I'm trying to emulate internet.socket for GERTi, because it looks like it would suit it well
L232[08:04:10] <Vexatos> to a floppy disk
L233[08:04:12] <Vexatos> *GASP*
L234[08:04:21] <Vexatos> or install network
L235[08:04:24] <Vexatos> and copy it to a floppy
L236[08:04:28] <Vexatos> or install it to a floppy
L237[08:04:30] <MGR> Vexatos, no
L238[08:04:30] <Vexatos> it's not hard
L239[08:04:42] <MGR> I don't want to make people copy a bunch of stuff to start GERTi up
L240[08:04:46] <Inari> Install install to a floppy
L241[08:04:53] <MGR> I want to make it easy
L242[08:05:20] <Vexatos> well how do you install whatever GERTi is on these computers
L243[08:05:23] <Vexatos> With a floppy, I assume
L244[08:05:26] <Vexatos> so put network on the same floppy
L245[08:05:28] <Vexatos> and win game
L246[08:05:30] <Vexatos> ._.
L247[08:06:02] <Inari> You only win with the I-Win button
L248[08:06:12] <MGR> Vexatos, the end-game is for the GERTi client to be built into OpenOS
L249[08:06:31] <Vexatos> MGR: what the hell is it
L250[08:06:43] <Vexatos> and why can you install it without internet while you can not install network
L251[08:07:11] <MGR> I'll take the second question first
L252[08:07:26] <MGR> Because I want it to be built into OpenOS, which doesn't require internet to install
L253[08:07:36] <MGR> As for what GERTi is, it is the standard implementation of Ocranet
L254[08:07:37] <Vexatos> it requires a floppy
L255[08:07:41] <Vexatos> which might contain network
L256[08:07:43] <Vexatos> sooo
L257[08:07:45] <Vexatos> ,-,
L258[08:07:48] <Vexatos> I don't understand
L259[08:08:01] <MGR> To my knowledge, the default OpenOS floppy doesn't contain network
L260[08:08:08] <Vexatos> and what the hell is ocranet? If I want to talk to whales I can try myself
L261[08:08:20] <Vexatos> well it doesn't contain GERTi either
L262[08:08:25] <Vexatos> so that's a moot point
L263[08:09:01] <MGR> Vexatos, but it could contain GERTi in the future
L264[08:09:18] <Vexatos> It probably won't
L265[08:09:22] <Vexatos> most likely
L266[08:09:27] <MGR> Ocranet is the premiere networking technology for OC that allows an OC computer to talk to any computer (OC or real-life) computer in the world
L267[08:09:36] <Vexatos> yea
L268[08:09:40] <Vexatos> sounds like oppm material
L269[08:09:49] <Inari> Should totally rename it Orcanet
L270[08:10:03] <MGR> S3 has worked on the base layer, I've worked on GERTi, and TYKUHN2 has helped with GERTe
L271[08:10:22] <S3> hi!
L272[08:10:24] <MGR> It would be good OpenOS material, if I could get the data transmission to *work*
L273[08:10:28] <S3> A lot of changes have happened to S3IX
L274[08:10:36] <Vexatos> MGR: If you are interested in making your whale communication service publicly available, I can give you an openprograms repo
L275[08:10:36] <MGR> S3, PR them up!
L276[08:10:52] <S3> at some point mgr, I don't want to lose the old code yet
L277[08:10:56] <MGR> Vexatos, I'm trying to be serious right now
L278[08:11:06] <S3> MGR the way it works, is that S3IX now comes with a C kernel
L279[08:11:11] <Vexatos> and if you don't put "whale communication service" into your programs.cfg you won't be put on oppm at all
L280[08:11:11] <MGR> S3, you could open an experimental branch
L281[08:11:14] <S3> that can run on qemu or your desktop at home
L282[08:11:20] <S3> yeah I could do that
L283[08:11:22] <Inari> I see no point in putting it into core OpenOS tbh. OPPM sounds better
L284[08:11:23] <S3> it binds lua 5.3
L285[08:11:43] <S3> and you can run openos or the s3ix lua os, plan9k, etc on your qemu or desktop, etc
L286[08:11:45] <Vexatos> MGR: If you were serious you wouldn't talk about whales and OpenOS
L287[08:11:49] <MGR> Inari, if it is in core OpenOS, then a total newb could pick it up and start it
L288[08:11:58] <MGR> Vexatos, I'm not talking about whales
L289[08:12:05] <Vexatos> whale communication service, then
L290[08:12:06] <MGR> I have never talked about whales online before
L291[08:12:09] <S3> a special libos layer can present real hardware as components.
L292[08:12:19] <Vexatos> what is your opinion on whales, then
L293[08:12:20] <Vexatos> or wales
L294[08:12:20] <Vexatos> you choose
L295[08:12:25] <MGR> I'm not talking about whale communication services
L296[08:12:26] <S3> but yeah that's what I've been doing
L297[08:12:32] <MGR> Whales are pretty cool
L298[08:12:36] <S3> Vexatos: like the idea of running openos in qemu?
L299[08:12:37] <S3> :D
L300[08:12:39] <MGR> But they're irrelevant to this conversation
L301[08:12:39] <Vexatos> thanks, that's all I wanted to know
L302[08:12:43] <S3> for OC emulation
L303[08:12:47] <Vexatos> Inari disagrees
L304[08:13:14] <MGR> I feel like everyone had a conversation behind my back on ways to get me to audibly groan
L305[08:13:31] <Vexatos> Not behind your back, no
L306[08:13:35] <Inari> Don't worry, I don't want to hear that
L307[08:13:35] <Vexatos> in fact, right in front of you
L308[08:13:36] <MGR> I literally just want some help on internet.socket so that I can contribute even a tiny bit
L309[08:13:48] <Vexatos> Ok
L310[08:13:57] <Vexatos> step 1: Give up on this ever getting into OpenOS
L311[08:14:00] <Vexatos> Step 2: Use network
L312[08:14:08] <Vexatos> unix philosophy is a thing
L313[08:14:22] <MGR> Thank you for your un-biased and reasonable comment Vexatos
L314[08:14:33] <MGR> You have greatly assisted my progress on making GERTi a reality
L315[08:14:33] <Vexatos> you're whalecome
L316[08:14:41] <Vexatos> No, really
L317[08:14:47] <Vexatos> It seems perfectly useless to standard OpenOS
L318[08:14:50] <S3> okay what is going on here
L319[08:14:58] <S3> I was reasin
L320[08:15:01] <S3> readin*
L321[08:15:04] <MGR> S3, I'm trying to do helpful stuff
L322[08:15:05] <Vexatos> He wants to get some kind of super advanced networking library into OpenOS
L323[08:15:07] <Inari> I am raisin
L324[08:15:12] <MGR> Everyone's opposing me
L325[08:15:12] <Forecaster> S3: whales
L326[08:15:27] <S3> mgr: for?
L327[08:15:29] <Vexatos> Inari, I am declinin
L328[08:15:53] <MGR> S3, I'm trying to get some knowledge on how internet.socket works behind the scenes
L329[08:16:06] <MGR> So I can mull it over before i do an in-depth investigation tomorrow
L330[08:16:09] <S3> mgr what do you need to know?
L331[08:16:30] <MGR> I want to know how to do something similar to internet.socket, but with modem messages
L332[08:16:45] <MGR> understanding the internet.socket code is a bonus
L333[08:16:53] <Vexatos> so pretty much what Magik6k implemented with network
L334[08:16:59] <Vexatos> but he doesn't want to use network, for no reason
L335[08:17:08] <MGR> there *is* a reason
L336[08:17:17] <Vexatos> There is not. You need the internet to install GERTi
L337[08:17:19] <S3> what do you mean, by similar, because I do a LOT of network programming, and I can assure you that the internet api code in behind the scenes is probably no real use
L338[08:17:32] <Vexatos> So you can use the same internet to install network
L339[08:17:43] <MGR> There issssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
L340[08:17:50] <Vexatos> S3, can confirm it's wrappers of wrappers wrapped in wrappers
L341[08:17:51] <Corded> * MGR zzs too much
L342[08:18:02] <S3> Vexatos: lol!
L343[08:18:03] <Vexatos> MGR: Which reason
L344[08:18:11] <Corded> * MGR zzts
L345[08:18:20] <Vexatos> S3, it's actually called the interwrap api
L346[08:18:27] <MGR> S3, basically internet.socket but with modem messages
L347[08:18:51] <MGR> If you PM'd me on Discord, that would be positively wonderful, because getting a productive conversation in here is difficult
L348[08:18:53] <Vexatos> S3, so basically this https://github.com/OpenPrograms/Magik6k-Programs/blob/master/network/network
L349[08:18:58] <Vexatos> except not that
L350[08:19:02] <Vexatos> because... something
L351[08:19:12] <S3> mgr so, are you saying that you want OC machines to communicate with eachother over the internet api but present themselves like a modem API?
L352[08:19:17] <S3> I already planned that out
L353[08:19:21] <Inari> MGR: If you'd not refuse to have a conversation :P
L354[08:19:21] <S3> did you not remember?
L355[08:19:29] <Vexatos> Inari, pretty much,y ea
L356[08:19:39] <S3> my solution for that was very transparent and simple
L357[08:19:49] <Vexatos> S3, ANOTHER WRAPPER?!?!?
L358[08:20:05] <S3> Vexatos: nah this was more of a component tunnel
L359[08:20:09] <Vexatos> good enough
L360[08:20:11] <S3> but yeah it does kinda wrap
L361[08:20:14] <S3> lol
L362[08:20:26] <Inari> More wrapping and we'll end up with bondage
L363[08:20:34] <Vexatos> MGR: I can't help you if you don't tell me why you won't use network
L364[08:20:38] <S3> Vexatos: I was pissed that there was no modem_message event for the internet API and I understand why too
L365[08:20:41] <Vexatos> Inari, or christmas presents
L366[08:20:45] <S3> so that's why I planned my component tunnel thing
L367[08:20:52] <Inari> Vexatos: Why not both
L368[08:20:59] <Vexatos> Inari, because there are sane people here
L369[08:21:03] <Vexatos> like
L370[08:21:09] <Vexatos> Pretty sure that MichiBot there
L371[08:21:13] <Vexatos> looks pretty sane to me
L372[08:21:24] <Vexatos> yea
L373[08:21:30] <S3> I want to go to work but there is a cat sitting on my lap
L374[08:21:32] <Forecaster> MichiBot is a people?
L375[08:21:32] <S3> I can not move
L376[08:21:40] <Vexatos> Forecaster, nanomachines
L377[08:21:46] <Inari> Who /wants/ to go to work :P
L378[08:21:51] <Vexatos> <---
L379[08:22:13] <Vexatos> Forecaster, michibot is all and all are michibot
L380[08:22:17] <Forecaster> people who have nice jobs
L381[08:22:26] <Vexatos> Like me :D
L382[08:22:46] <Mimiru> can confirm, shitty job, don't wanna go to work
L383[08:22:59] <S3> MGR: I guess I'm not sure entirely what you want to do as an effect
L384[08:23:08] <MGR> annnnnnnnnd I'm back
L385[08:23:12] <Inari> I think even with a "nice" job I'd prefer being lazy most days :P
L386[08:23:29] <MGR> So here's how I want this to work out
L387[08:23:33] <Forecaster> earlier I was about to implement searching in the oclogs thing
L388[08:23:40] <MGR> Step 1: GERTi gateway comes online (Done)
L389[08:23:42] <Forecaster> then I realized you can just ctrl+f
L390[08:24:00] <MGR> Step 2: GERTi clients come online and set up the network (Pretty much done (I think))
L391[08:24:01] <Mimiru> Theres also a search on the main page
L392[08:24:08] <S3> ok
L393[08:24:14] <Vexatos> Forecaster, behold my javascript skills for search on openprograms.github.io http://git.io/vudnR
L394[08:24:34] <Mimiru> now that there is line highlighting I might make it highlight the line it finds
L395[08:24:35] <MGR> Step 3: GERTi now acts as a standard library and allows people to open "sockets" like with internet.socket, and send and receive messages
L396[08:24:39] <Vexatos> (I never used javascript)
L397[08:25:01] <S3> ok?
L398[08:25:07] <Vexatos> MGR: So you want an implementation of internet.socket, but for modem messages?
L399[08:25:24] <S3> MGR I would wrap internet.socket not modem_message
L400[08:25:32] <S3> make the internet api look like a modem instead
L401[08:25:35] <S3> it should be all the same
L402[08:25:45] <MGR> Vexatos, pretty much
L403[08:25:50] <Vexatos> internet.socket uses TCP... So you want a TCP implementation?
L404[08:25:51] <S3> if it's the other way around it gets very ... clunky
L405[08:26:01] <Vexatos> I have a TCP implementation for you
L406[08:26:03] <MGR> Not necessarily
L407[08:26:04] <Vexatos> it's called network
L408[08:26:08] <MGR> ahhhhhhhhhhhh
L409[08:26:09] <Vexatos> :⁾
L410[08:26:12] <MGR> you won
L411[08:26:17] <MGR> I finally audibly groaned
L412[08:26:23] <S3> it's much more sane to just make the internet card look like a modem
L413[08:26:31] <MGR> I don't WANT that though
L414[08:26:36] <S3> why not?
L415[08:26:38] <Vexatos> MGR: Tell my why you do not want to use network
L416[08:26:50] <MGR> S3, because i don't want to make every GERTi client have a network card
L417[08:26:56] <MGR> that kinda ruins the point of it
L418[08:27:00] <Vexatos> how
L419[08:27:01] <Vexatos> does
L420[08:27:02] <S3> mgr: why would you need one?
L421[08:27:02] <Vexatos> one
L422[08:27:06] <Vexatos> receive network messages
L423[08:27:08] <Vexatos> without network card
L424[08:27:17] <MGR> S3, because you said I should just make the internet card look like a modem
L425[08:27:23] <S3> yes
L426[08:27:25] <MGR> Vexatos, they will have a wired/wireless network card
L427[08:27:28] <S3> why does that require a network card?
L428[08:27:38] <Mimiru> I'll have to rewrite the search page to not suck...
L429[08:27:44] <Mimiru> Hey Forecaster want a project? :P
L430[08:27:57] <S3> I wish I had my chaulk board..
L431[08:28:05] <MGR> uguguguguugugug
L432[08:28:29] <Mimiru> Forecaster, https://gist.github.com/CaitlynMainer/9b609821daf41ccfdaf314d43942f2ac just in case. I've gotta get ready for work
L433[08:28:40] <Forecaster> woop
L434[08:28:46] <MGR> I don't need TCP, I don't need any fanciness, i don't need to copy the internet code, I just want GERTi.socket() to be a thing that people can call and then use similar to internet.socket()
L435[08:28:47] <Vexatos> MGR: So you want people to install GERTi using a floppy disk instead of the internet, right?
L436[08:29:04] <MGR> Vexatos, I want GERTi to be in OpenOS
L437[08:29:11] <Vexatos> That won't happen
L438[08:29:12] <Vexatos> try again
L439[08:29:28] <S3> I personally don't think that having gerti via oppm is a problem
L440[08:29:34] <Vexatos> EXACTLY
L441[08:29:36] <MGR> I would like a time machine please
L442[08:29:40] <Vexatos> OpenOS is perfectly useless
L443[08:29:43] <Vexatos> err
L444[08:29:47] <S3> LOL
L445[08:29:51] <Vexatos> GERTi is perfectly useless to OpenOS
L446[08:29:52] <Vexatos> all the same
L447[08:30:04] <Inari> %tell payonel [15:29:38] <+Vexatos> OpenOS is perfectly useless
L448[08:30:05] <S3> %addquote vexatos OpenOS is perfectly useless
L449[08:30:06] <MichiBot> Inari: payonel will be notified of this message when next seen.
L450[08:30:10] <MichiBot> S3: Quote added at id: 129
L451[08:30:14] <Mimiru> win.
L452[08:30:14] <MGR> So I can go back 2 years in time and tell younger MGR that he should have involved Gavle much earlier and not gotten himself a lifetime of ill-will from almost the entire #oc channel
L453[08:30:24] <Mimiru> Everyone pack up, #OC is over for the day, Vexatos won.
L454[08:30:24] <S3> XD
L455[08:30:29] <Mimiru> try again tomorrow folks
L456[08:30:29] <S3> Vexatos: you're fucked now XD lol
L457[08:30:31] <Inari> Gavle?
L458[08:30:47] <Vexatos> S3, quote not funny without context
L459[08:30:54] <S3> :>
L460[08:31:05] <S3> I dunno I think inside jokes are the best
L461[08:31:05] <Vexatos> now it just sounds like a random comment
L462[08:31:08] <Vexatos> instead of a typo
L463[08:31:25] <Forecaster> Mimiru: I could intergrate the search into the main page, but I'd need the code for that too
L464[08:31:38] <Vexatos> MGR: It's not ill will, OpenOS really does not need it
L465[08:31:52] <MGR> I'm not talking about just that
L466[08:31:59] <S3> mgr: first of all, oppn gert is not a bad idea. there are only what, 16 possible floppy disks? maybe? just a guess
L467[08:32:01] <Vexatos> I am talking about just that
L468[08:32:10] <Forecaster> or maybe it's better on it's own page
L469[08:32:10] <Vexatos> S3, 4096
L470[08:32:22] <S3> Vexatos: ah, I thought it was bound to the meta thing
L471[08:32:23] <Vexatos> no, wait
L472[08:32:25] <Vexatos> err
L473[08:32:27] <Vexatos> let me check
L474[08:32:57] <S3> oppm*
L475[08:33:19] <MGR> I want GERTi to be the common person's networking technology
L476[08:33:19] <Vexatos> S3, assuming you have infinite RAM
L477[08:33:25] <S3> hahahaha
L478[08:33:37] <MGR> If they have to figure out how to get OPPM and install it, then that kind of ruins it a little bit
L479[08:34:12] <MGR> But if nobody can offer serious help, I can just write the backend on my own
L480[08:34:17] <Forecaster> if they can't figure out how to use oppm they're gona have a bad time with OC
L481[08:34:44] <MGR> Forecaster, another possibility
L482[08:34:53] <MGR> I know a friend who works at a place that teaches kids programming
L483[08:34:56] <S3> MGR I have said this before, but not about GERT, but also about OCRanet, etc, that is never going to happen. People will adopt it as they see fit. but I can't expect everyone to just use GERT or OCR_NNR or even Magik6k's network thing
L484[08:35:06] <Vexatos> S3, looks like 549755813632
L485[08:35:15] <Vexatos> unless I derped at maths
L486[08:35:22] <Inari> Well if you wanna do programming you better learn package managers and stuff
L487[08:35:26] <S3> Vexatos: LOL
L488[08:35:29] <Inari> Cause you're lost without
L489[08:35:32] <MGR> If they can get it done easily, they could use GERT/Ocranet to teach networking
L490[08:35:47] <Vexatos> S3, you have 8 bits in a byte so 2^8 possible bytes, right?
L491[08:35:48] <Inari> If they really want ot do that they can just like
L492[08:35:50] <Inari> preinstall it
L493[08:35:54] <Inari> You know... :P
L494[08:35:55] <MGR> But if they have to download it from the internet, it could be difficult
L495[08:36:04] <MGR> But whatever
L496[08:36:10] <Inari> They already have to download OC anyway D:
L497[08:36:20] <MGR> S3, I know it won't hit 100%
L498[08:36:30] <MGR> But I want to do everything I can to make it easy
L499[08:36:42] <MGR> Even if that means I make it harder on myself
L500[08:36:58] <MGR> And now I have to make my own backend, which sucks
L501[08:37:01] <S3> I don't worry about easy so much anymore
L502[08:37:08] <MGR> Or figure out internet.socket on my own, which still sucks
L503[08:37:18] <Vexatos> Well you can make the oppm download contain an installer
L504[08:37:23] <Vexatos> so you can install it to a floppy
L505[08:37:40] <Inari> 2^8 is 256... no?
L506[08:37:44] <Vexatos> yes
L507[08:38:13] <S3> what do you mean by figure out though, what is there to figure out. internet.socket is EXTREMELY similar to any high level blocking socket API out there.
L508[08:38:24] <MGR> Vexatos, I don't understand why you can't understand what I'm saying
L509[08:38:31] <MGR> I don't want to have to use OPPM
L510[08:38:33] <Vexatos> wow derp
L511[08:38:34] <Vexatos> S3, sorry
L512[08:38:46] <MGR> S3, I haven't had experience with networking APIs
L513[08:38:47] <S3> Vexatos: ?
L514[08:38:54] <Vexatos> I miscalculated
L515[08:38:57] <S3> lol
L516[08:39:20] <S3> (ways to keep Vexatos busy, or distract... give him a math problem)
L517[08:39:21] <S3> lol
L518[08:39:33] <Vexatos> it is actually 2^(17179869176)
L519[08:39:36] <S3> ooh
L520[08:39:41] <Inari> lol
L521[08:39:57] <S3> see I thought that maybe the color of the disk was part of its metadata thing and therefore limited to that field
L522[08:40:04] <S3> but I guess that's nice
L523[08:40:11] <Vexatos> yea the colour is one of 16
L524[08:40:19] <Vexatos> but that's just the colour
L525[08:40:24] <S3> right
L526[08:40:55] <S3> it makes sense to not make that a limiting factor, but I wouldn't be surprised with how some mods have been made in the past
L527[08:41:38] <S3> MGR you know preactically everything on disk is on oppm right?
L528[08:41:46] <Inari> Or with how GAmebryo can only load 256 plugins
L529[08:41:48] * Inari coughs
L530[08:41:51] <S3> plan9k, network, etc
L531[08:41:57] <MGR> yes
L532[08:42:20] <S3> if you create an oppm package, you never know if someday somebody will go, "hey, we can use this, and we want this implemented in core"
L533[08:42:29] <S3> so then they just add it to loot, voila.
L534[08:42:32] <S3> not saying that will happen
L535[08:42:50] <MGR> Yeah, but that got shot down
L536[08:43:39] <S3> that's just Vexatos being Vexatos. he's making a solid point. you really should make it widely available via oppn first so that people don't have to spawn or FIND THE DAMN FRIGGING FLOPPY SOMEWHERE IN SOME DUNGEON
L537[08:43:42] <S3> man I hate doing that
L538[08:43:48] <S3> or village
L539[08:43:52] <S3> villages seem to be the best way
L540[08:44:04] <S3> raid those chests heh
L541[08:44:06] <MGR> Yeah, I don't want that either
L542[08:44:19] <S3> but oppm is a common disk
L543[08:44:19] <MGR> and i don't want everyone to have to go around putting internet cards in every new GERTi machine
L544[08:44:30] <S3> you wouldn't, why would you?
L545[08:44:39] <MGR> I honestly have no clue
L546[08:44:46] <S3> you should ONLY need internet cards for those internet links.
L547[08:45:01] <S3> everything else should be done over lan / link cards
L548[08:45:03] <MGR> EXACTLY
L549[08:45:04] <S3> or wireless
L550[08:45:09] <MGR> that's what I want
L551[08:45:14] <Vexatos> S3, you can craft loot disks :X
L552[08:45:14] <S3> so then what's the problem?
L553[08:45:24] <S3> Vexatos: oh yeah I forgot ...
L554[08:45:29] <S3> shit
L555[08:45:30] <Vexatos> just craft the openos or oppm one (those you can craft by other means) with a scrench
L556[08:45:32] <S3> all trhat time wasted!
L557[08:45:45] <MGR> using OPPM demands that every GERTi comptuer needs to have an internet card at the beginning
L558[08:45:59] <Vexatos> no?
L559[08:46:02] <Vexatos> It demands that one does
L560[08:46:09] <Vexatos> and then your oppm package contains an installer
L561[08:46:17] <Vexatos> copying all the necessary files to a floppy for you
L562[08:46:19] <Vexatos> and off you go
L563[08:46:41] <TYKUHN2> Kewl
L564[08:46:48] <S3> internet cards are pretty cheap
L565[08:46:54] <S3> whats it need, an ender pearl or somethin?
L566[08:47:07] <MGR> The problem isn't the cost
L567[08:47:10] <TYKUHN2> Or make our own installer that installs over OPPM ?
L568[08:47:19] <MGR> It's that it unnecessarily complicates things for the end-user
L569[08:47:20] <S3> by the time you have all the funds to creaft an OC computer which is expensive in its own early game way, you will be able to make internet cards..
L570[08:47:34] <Vexatos> S3, that's 10^5171655943 possibilities. Nice.
L571[08:47:42] <Vexatos> that might take a bit
L572[08:47:44] <S3> OMG Vexatos lol you're still going on about that
L573[08:47:57] <Vexatos> I have little else to do
L574[08:48:01] <S3> heh
L575[08:48:06] <Vexatos> I had a 4.5 hour maths session yesterday
L576[08:48:10] <Vexatos> that was exhausting
L577[08:48:14] <S3> heh
L578[08:48:15] <Vexatos> for the students, not for me
L579[08:48:17] <Vexatos> :⁾
L580[08:48:21] <MGR> Vexatos, you seem to be finding plenty of time to troll me about whales :/
L581[08:48:35] <Vexatos> MGR: I'd like to visit wales some time
L582[08:48:55] <S3> MGR: you will find a much smoother ride if you wrap the internet api with a modem emulation api instead of the other way around.
L583[08:49:07] <S3> because then you can get internet api messages via modem_message
L584[08:49:12] <Vexatos> probably
L585[08:49:17] <S3> and to the code itl look all the same
L586[08:49:20] <MGR> S3, I'm not necessarily trying to wrap stuff
L587[08:49:25] <S3> it wont matter to gert if you're using an internet card or anything
L588[08:49:44] <Vexatos> if you are not wrapping
L589[08:49:47] <Vexatos> you are not doing anything
L590[08:49:51] <MGR> false
L591[08:49:54] <Vexatos> you cannot implement the internet in Lua
L592[08:50:02] <MGR> true
L593[08:50:03] <Vexatos> without wrapping the wrapper
L594[08:50:18] <MGR> this is rediculous
L595[08:50:31] <MGR> why does nobody understand I don't want to wrap the internet, TCP, or anything like that
L596[08:50:39] <MGR> I don't care about that
L597[08:51:04] <MGR> I just a GERTi.socket() that you can push data in and out of
L598[08:51:13] <MGR> just want a*
L599[08:51:58] <Vexatos> "I don't want to understand the internals of sockets, I just want a socket"
L600[08:52:11] <Vexatos> "but I want to do it myself instead of using code that's been written for me"
L601[08:52:18] <Michiyo_> Forecaster, the main page is just some random off the shelf php directory lister, with the skin's header customized
L602[08:52:22] *** Michiyo_ is now known as Michiyo
L603[08:52:28] <TYKUHN2> I have about 2 minutes. What's the problem?
L604[08:52:30] <Forecaster> ah
L605[08:52:35] <S3> mgr: a socket is just a filehandle
L606[08:52:41] <Forecaster> well it doesn't matter, it's better on it's own page anyway
L607[08:52:51] <Forecaster> I'm going to make it prettier
L608[08:52:57] <S3> a socket is a filehandle you can read / write to / from
L609[08:53:02] <MGR> yes
L610[08:53:36] <MGR> I want to know if there's an easy way to take internet.socket() out of /lib/internet.lua and put it in GERTi to make it work with network messages, or if I have to make my own backend
L611[08:53:44] <Vexatos> neither
L612[08:53:47] <Vexatos> you can just use network
L613[08:53:49] <MGR> Understanding the code is a bonus, but not necessary if I can do some transferrence
L614[08:53:50] <Vexatos> or go with S3's approach
L615[08:54:13] <MGR> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
L616[08:54:20] <S3> hello kitty
L617[08:54:38] <Vexatos> two people giving suggestions
L618[08:54:40] <Michiyo> "But reinventing the wheel is fun!"
L619[08:54:43] <Vexatos> doesn't accept either
L620[08:54:47] <Forecaster> in a pineapple hut under the sea
L621[08:54:51] <Vexatos> wants to go stupidly complicated way
L622[08:54:56] <S3> reinventing the wheel is not bad
L623[08:55:08] <Vexatos> complains about lack of support
L624[08:55:12] <Vexatos> y e a h
L625[08:55:13] <S3> but you can't reinvent the wheel without wanting to reinvent the wheel
L626[08:55:15] <MGR> Vexatos, I don't want to go a stupidly complicated way
L627[08:55:20] <MGR> I don't want to make my own backend
L628[08:55:25] <Vexatos> THEN USE NETWORK
L629[08:55:25] <Michiyo> s/not/not always, but usually is/
L630[08:55:25] <MichiBot> <S3> reinventing the wheel is not always, but usually is bad
L631[08:55:28] <Vexatos> OR USE S3'S WAY
L632[08:55:32] <MGR> Vexatos, I CANTTTTTTTTTTT
L633[08:55:36] <Vexatos> Y O U C A N
L634[08:55:40] <MGR> NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
L635[08:55:50] <Vexatos> why not
L636[08:55:53] <MGR> From what I understood, S3's way was to use the internet card
L637[08:55:55] <Michiyo> T O U C A N
L638[08:56:01] <Vexatos> what
L639[08:56:08] <Vexatos> Michiyo, I read that too
L640[08:56:13] <Vexatos> MGR: It is not
L641[08:56:24] <MGR> Vexatos, if I have to re-hash the fact that I don't want to make it more complicated to install GERTi one more time, something bad's going to happen
L642[08:56:26] <MGR> I don't know what
L643[08:56:28] <Vexatos> S3's approach is, instead of making modems have sockets, make internet cards behave like modems
L644[08:56:29] <MGR> but something will happen
L645[08:56:42] <MGR> I don't want every GERTi computer required to have an internet card
L646[08:56:52] <Vexatos> Y O U D O N ' T
L647[08:56:54] <Vexatos> do you even read
L648[08:56:56] <Vexatos> what I say here
L649[08:56:56] <MGR> Also internet cards wouldn't really work for GERTi, because they can't do local networking by default
L650[08:56:57] <S3> MGR no, my idea was that since you're dealing with lan, wireless, link and internet cards, make them appear the same so that you don't need to make special adjustments for each. the easiest way to do that is to make the internet card look like the other three.
L651[08:57:23] <MGR> S3, but I'm not dealing with internet cards
L652[08:57:40] <Vexatos> MGR, one more time https://puu.sh/tImqO/5ce2013f09.png
L653[08:57:50] <S3> but then how do you communicate between machines accross the inet?
L654[08:57:57] <MGR> S3, that's GERTe's domain
L655[08:58:07] <MGR> all GERTi does is talk inside the network
L656[08:58:32] <MGR> If a computer needs to talk to another computer, GERTi takes the messages and dumps it out at the gateway
L657[08:58:38] <S3> okay then. so what's the problem?
L658[08:58:38] <MGR> and then GERTe picks up the slack
L659[08:58:47] <MGR> and TYUKUHN2 is doing some fine work on that
L660[08:59:14] <MGR> S3, I want a GERTi.socket() method that works similarly to internet.socket()
L661[08:59:25] <MGR> I want to know if I can take any code from /lib/internet.lua
L662[09:00:18] <Vexatos> Ok: No, you can not
L663[09:00:28] <MGR> Ok
L664[09:00:31] <Vexatos> all the socket stuff is done in Scala
L665[09:00:36] <MGR> then I have to make my own backend
L666[09:00:41] <Vexatos> ...or use network
L667[09:01:00] <MGR> I'm out
L668[09:01:05] <MGR> Have a good day everyone
L669[09:01:07] <S3> mgr: Okay I see what you're saying. do you not want to handle events like modem_message? etc?
L670[09:01:08] <MGR> We'll talk tomorrow
L671[09:01:11] <Vexatos> ever heard about the unix philosophy
L672[09:01:18] <Vexatos> look it up
L673[09:04:15] <S3> ARGHRGHRGRHRGHRGRHRGH
L674[09:04:24] <S3> My college never gave me my frigging financial aid refund
L675[09:04:41] <Vexatos> financial AIDS? D:
L676[09:04:43] <S3> so I can't afgford books
L677[09:04:47] <S3> its third week in semester.
L678[09:04:54] <Vexatos> nice
L679[09:04:57] <S3> I have to read two books by thursday
L680[09:05:08] <Vexatos> my government pays me monthly so I'm fine
L681[09:05:15] <S3> heh
L682[09:07:25] <S3> not everybody lives in west watchekatellah.
L683[09:07:42] <Forecaster> if they did it'd be very crowded
L684[09:07:50] <S3> lol
L685[09:08:26] <S3> I dunno how to spell it
L686[09:08:32] <S3> watchakatella maybe
L687[09:09:05] <S3> Watchakatella
L688[09:09:08] <S3> one l
L689[09:09:17] <S3> nope! 2
L690[09:10:21] <Vexatos> Most universities in the west cost more than what you get for studying
L691[09:10:21] <Vexatos> :P
L692[09:10:29] <S3> it's a town in the hoober bloob highway by dr. seuss.
L693[09:10:50] ⇦ Quits: Hyst (cxsss1@cpe-124-189-28-144.bkzh1.cht.bigpond.net.au) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)
L694[09:11:07] <Vexatos> Praise north European education :X
L695[09:11:14] <S3> Vexatos: I'm going to an engineering school that is well known, and it's ~ 5K /semester for me
L696[09:11:16] <S3> little less
L697[09:11:20] <S3> but also I live here so
L698[09:11:31] <Vexatos> I go to a pretty reputable chemistry part of a bigger university
L699[09:11:38] <Vexatos> €350 a semester for me
L700[09:11:54] <S3> I just wish we had a good CS program
L701[09:12:02] <Vexatos> and I get €400 a month for studying at all
L702[09:12:02] <S3> we have a fantastic CE program
L703[09:12:03] <Vexatos> soooo
L704[09:12:16] <S3> you can graduate with a degree in CS and not know what a pointer is
L705[09:12:31] <Vexatos> Isn't that the thing on your screen you can click with?
L706[09:12:33] * Vexatos runs
L707[09:12:49] ⇨ Joins: MindWorX (~MindWorX@2001:2012:141e:6f00:759c:7c3e:cf52:dda3)
L708[09:12:53] <S3> LOL
L709[09:12:55] <Forecaster> http://elelur.com/dog-breeds/pointer.html
L710[09:13:01] <Vexatos> yea, that one
L711[09:13:07] <Vexatos> you put it in front of your screen
L712[09:13:12] <Vexatos> and make its nose click
L713[09:13:13] <MindWorX> In the redstone event, I get: id, address, side, ?
L714[09:13:15] <S3> so
L715[09:13:23] <MindWorX> I would guess ? is signal strength, but it seems inversed
L716[09:13:30] <Forecaster> you tell it to fetch and it gets your internet packets for you
L717[09:13:32] <S3> at this old hunters camp somebody in my family owns
L718[09:13:39] <MindWorX> If I push a button, I get a 0, and the button stops and I get a 15
L719[09:13:40] <S3> there's 1 bathroom, and two toilets in it
L720[09:13:46] <S3> one has a sign that says "pointers"
L721[09:13:52] <S3> the other says "setters"
L722[09:14:22] <Vexatos> MindWorX, well it is the old value
L723[09:14:25] <MindWorX> Ah
L724[09:14:29] <Vexatos> it is side, old value, new value
L725[09:14:34] <MindWorX> Alright
L726[09:14:40] <MindWorX> Thanks
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L730[09:46:35] <Vexatos> %tell Sangar trying to implement #1385 but I am not sure what would be the best way to do it
L731[09:46:35] <MichiBot> Vexatos: Sangar will be notified of this message when next seen.
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L735[09:58:15] zsh sets mode: +v on ping
L736[10:12:41] <MGR> Exciting news incoming
L737[10:24:12] <gamax92> So exciting
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L741[10:34:26] <Michiyo> http://puu.sh/tIsI0/5d41ddfaf8.jpg This bugs the crap out of me... it's a AA battery holder with 9volt battery terminals.. if you use that, and put a 9volt plug on your device, and someone says hey... look it takes a 9volt battery, you're gonna have a bad time.
L742[10:35:48] <payonel> Inari: https://i.imgur.com/VaeBUuj.gifv
L743[10:37:54] <vifino> STOP IT! TOO CUTE, CAN'T HANDLE ;_;
L744[10:42:36] <Forecaster> http://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/the-largest-number-2
L745[10:42:42] <Forecaster> the bonus frame is great
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L748[10:44:21] <Inari> payonel: What a well trained dog :P
L749[10:44:33] <Inari> Also then the lick at the end xD
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L754[10:47:19] <MGR> and the exciting news is here
L755[10:47:42] <MGR> However, before we discuss GERB, we must take a quick flashback to ~2.5 hours ago
L756[10:48:10] * Forecaster presses the fast-forward button repeatedly
L757[10:48:17] <MGR> 2.5 hours ago, I was engaged in strenuous conversation with one person who said everything he could to annoy me, and then another person who had good intentions, but misunderstood what I wanted
L758[10:48:40] <MGR> The conversation ended with the realization that I can't steal /lib/internet.lua's backend
L759[10:48:48] <MGR> Flash-forward to now
L760[10:49:00] <MGR> I am proud to introduce, GERB: Global Empire Routing Technology!
L761[10:49:46] <MGR> created to solve the problem that GERTi has no easy transception backend, GERB allows you to open internet.socket type sockets with a variety of communication methods
L762[10:49:57] <MGR> network cards are top priority, but redstone and more support is planned
L763[10:50:47] <Vexatos> Michiyo, what would you ever need 9V for
L764[10:51:04] <MGR> wait
L765[10:51:15] <Forecaster> smoke detectors
L766[10:51:16] <MGR> GERB != Global Empire Routing Technology
L767[10:51:25] <MGR> GERB == Global Empire Routing Backend
L768[10:52:10] <MGR> FYI, GERB will eventually be standalone from GERT
L769[10:52:12] <Vexatos> Gourd, Enchilada, Rice and Bread
L770[10:52:41] <MGR> Yeah, so, I'm of mixed feelings about you Vexatos
L771[10:52:56] <MGR> I'm not your biggest fan, but the severe annoyance you induced led me to a solution
L772[10:54:50] <Forecaster> I just opened the weapon menu in ETG (which slows time) just after firing a rocket with the Stinger and saw that the rocket is yellow with black stripes
L773[10:54:55] <20kdc> uh, quick question, does that solution involve... *picks up list* harming anyone, maiming anyone, excessively cuddling anyone... severe annoyance doesn't generally lead to solutions that are nice.
L774[10:55:12] <MGR> @20kdc no
L775[10:55:19] <Inari> MGR: So it uses network?
L776[10:55:23] <MGR> it involves me throwing all of my resources into GERB
L777[10:55:27] <MGR> Inari, absolutely not
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L779[11:02:21] <Forecaster> the Stringers rockets explode into bees
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L781[11:07:04] <Vexatos> MGR: So I need to annoy you more to increase your productivity?
L782[11:07:06] <Vexatos> I can do that
L783[11:07:08] <Vexatos> I think
L784[11:07:21] <MGR> Vexatos, no
L785[11:07:26] <MGR> It's usually a 1 time trick
L786[11:07:27] <Vexatos> Too late
L787[11:07:34] <Vexatos> You already signed the contract
L788[11:07:55] <MGR> Were you the one robo-calling my phone?
L789[11:11:05] <Vexatos> OC doesn't have phones
L790[11:11:23] <MGR> ?
L791[11:14:37] ⇦ Quits: jackmcbarn (jackmcbarn@gateway.insomnia247.nl) (Ping timeout: 192 seconds)
L792[11:17:53] <MGR> Vexatos, also, annoying me only managed to grant me a breakthrough
L793[11:17:59] ⇨ Joins: jackmcbarn (jackmcbarn@gateway.insomnia247.nl)
L794[11:18:07] <Vexatos> Great
L795[11:18:13] <MGR> Most of the time, progress is limited by the speed at which I can implement ideas, not generate new ones
L796[11:18:13] <Vexatos> That means I need to annoy you more
L797[11:18:20] <Vexatos> and eventually you will get a nobel prize
L798[11:18:32] <MGR> I don't think it works like that
L799[11:19:08] <MGR> Vexatos, in short, you can't speed up my workflow by a significant amount, no matter how much you annoy me
L800[11:19:32] <Vexatos> pity
L801[11:19:37] <Vexatos> then I'll just be helpful again
L802[11:19:49] <Vexatos> it's on you to continue ignoring my advice
L803[11:20:25] <MGR> Vexatos, but you're advice runs directly opposite to what I need to happen
L804[11:20:32] <MGR> your*
L805[11:22:41] <Vexatos> not really
L806[11:22:49] <Vexatos> you just keep not reading and/or ignoring it
L807[11:22:59] <MGR> I read what you say
L808[11:23:08] <MGR> But using network is not what I want
L809[11:23:19] <MGR> I don't want the end-user to have to download lots of things
L810[11:24:22] <Vexatos> And I already told you
L811[11:24:23] <Vexatos> four times
L812[11:24:25] <Vexatos> that they don't
L813[11:24:27] <Vexatos> if you just do it right
L814[11:24:46] <MGR> ????
L815[11:24:49] <Vexatos> you put your junk on oppm
L816[11:24:52] <Vexatos> add network as a dependency
L817[11:24:55] <Vexatos> it downloads it for you
L818[11:25:01] <Vexatos> your package contains an installer
L819[11:25:09] <Vexatos> that copies all the files it needs to your floppy
L820[11:25:10] <Vexatos> and done
L821[11:25:15] <Vexatos> you move that floppy around
L822[11:25:17] <Inari> Beesplosion!
L823[11:25:19] <MGR> but, I don't want them to have to download GERTi either (the client, the gateway will have to be downloaded)
L824[11:25:21] <Vexatos> to all the computers you ever want
L825[11:25:30] <Vexatos> well how would they get it otherwise?
L826[11:25:31] <MGR> but they still have to install stuff
L827[11:25:34] <MGR> ?
L828[11:25:35] <Vexatos> without a download
L829[11:25:40] <MGR> OpenOS :3
L830[11:25:42] <Vexatos> No
L831[11:25:44] <Vexatos> I told you
L832[11:25:45] <Vexatos> No.
L833[11:25:48] <Vexatos> Forget about it
L834[11:25:49] <Vexatos> please
L835[11:25:53] <MGR> Never!
L836[11:25:55] <Michiyo> 3 people have said no on that.
L837[11:25:57] <Vexatos> well that's your fault
L838[11:26:03] <Vexatos> It adds nothing useful to OpenOS
L839[11:26:06] <Vexatos> it doesn't belong there
L840[11:26:11] <MGR> Mimiru, I'm aware of nobody else who said no
L841[11:26:17] <Inari> <-
L842[11:26:20] <MGR> Payonel just said to convince vexatos
L843[11:26:27] <Michiyo> Vex, Payo, and... someone else
L844[11:26:32] <MGR> which I will when it's done
L845[11:26:39] <Vexatos> Yea good luck
L846[11:26:42] <Michiyo> Yeah.. I'll pay to see that
L847[11:26:46] <Michiyo> lemme sell tickets.
L848[11:26:47] <Vexatos> same
L849[11:26:54] <MGR> Vexatos, it does add something useful
L850[11:26:56] <Vexatos> I bet €5 you can't convince me
L851[11:26:59] <Michiyo> It's a neat concept... it REALLY is..
L852[11:27:00] <MGR> Easy and powerful networking
L853[11:27:00] <Vexatos> :⁾
L854[11:27:07] <Vexatos> Michiyo, convincing me?
L855[11:27:11] <MGR> But this is rediculous
L856[11:27:11] <Vexatos> Or GERTi? :⁾
L857[11:27:12] <Michiyo> but it does NOT need to be a core OpenOS thing.
L858[11:27:19] <Vexatos> Yea
L859[11:27:27] <Vexatos> OpenOS is the Ubuntu of OC
L860[11:27:28] <MGR> It's impossible to convince you because you won't even evaluate it fairly
L861[11:27:38] <Inari> MGR: You are rediculous
L862[11:27:41] <MGR> Never used any version of Linux other than 30 minutes of Knoppix
L863[11:27:47] <Vexatos> well
L864[11:27:48] <Vexatos> uuuh
L865[11:27:51] <Vexatos> how do you even OC
L866[11:28:00] <Vexatos> OpenOS is basically unix by now
L867[11:28:00] <MGR> ?
L868[11:28:02] <Vexatos> almost
L869[11:28:19] <Vexatos> With all the junk payonel added
L870[11:28:23] <MGR> ok?
L871[11:28:30] <Vexatos> actually _useful_ junk
L872[11:28:31] <20kdc> all that's missing is a CPU emulator to run things on
L873[11:28:38] <Inari> payonel: First he calls OpenOS useless and now he calls your additions junk :<
L874[11:28:42] <Vexatos> and not an intergalactical networking system
L875[11:28:44] <MGR> Vexatos, GERTi is actually useful
L876[11:28:47] <Vexatos> (for whales)
L877[11:28:56] <Vexatos> Inari, :⁾
L878[11:29:00] <MGR> But this is pointless
L879[11:29:09] <MGR> Because now I know you're biased
L880[11:29:13] <Vexatos> payonel, can confirm, I hate you and openos, of course, and I hate OC
L881[11:29:21] <Michiyo> Yeah Fuck OC!
L882[11:29:22] <MGR> So I'm going to drop it until I'm done, and then I will know for sure
L883[11:29:29] <Vexatos> Michiyo, I know, right?
L884[11:29:30] <Inari> Fuck OC, long live circuity!
L885[11:29:54] <Vexatos> Inari, props for spelling that right
L886[11:29:54] <Michiyo> I'm gonna make Lua in redstone only!
L887[11:30:06] <Vexatos> Michiyo, call it moonstone :⁾
L888[11:30:30] <Michiyo> lol
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L890[11:40:41] <Vexatos> MGR: Honestly trying to save you hours of work
L891[11:40:51] <Vexatos> but then again
L892[11:40:54] <Vexatos> OC is all about coding
L893[11:50:17] <MGR> Vexatos A. Whether GERT makes it into OpenOS or not, GERB still needs to happen
L894[11:50:49] <MGR> B. I understand your bias, I was very annoying a year ago. All I ask is that you can put it aside when I'm done with GERTi
L895[11:51:28] <Temia> MGR, I can tell you right out one reason why it'll never happen.
L896[11:51:45] <Temia> It has that Global Empire nonsense right in the name.
L897[11:53:17] <MGR> Temia, why would that matter?
L898[11:54:32] <Temia> It's branding what implies affiliation, and moreover it implies affiliation with a concept inimical with OSS.
L899[11:55:25] <MGR> What?
L900[11:55:36] <Vexatos> It also implies it's been written by a twelve-year-old
L901[11:55:42] <Vexatos> but what do I know
L902[11:56:07] <Temia> That delicious chuuni feel
L903[11:57:26] <Inari> MGR likes his odd names :P
L904[11:58:07] ⇨ Joins: BearishMushroom (~BearishMu@90-231-174-194-no159.tbcn.telia.com)
L905[11:58:32] <Forecaster> MGR is offline now, just fyi
L906[11:58:38] <20kdc> Temia: affiliation with which concept?
L907[11:59:25] <MGR> Forecaster, I am?
L908[11:59:38] <Forecaster> you appear as offline
L909[11:59:47] <MGR> Vexatos, I am at least 13 years of age :p
L910[11:59:50] ⇨ Joins: Keanu73 (~Keanu73@host-92-29-198-75.as13285.net)
L911[12:00:33] <Inari> Forecaster: Well especially when people are on mobile they can oten show up as offline
L912[12:00:44] <g> yeah, discord isn't fantastic with that
L913[12:00:58] <Temia> s/with that//
L914[12:00:58] <MichiBot> <g> yeah, discord isn't fantastic
L915[12:01:12] <g> no, I said what I meant
L916[12:01:16] <g> :v
L917[12:02:25] <Temia> I know, I'm just making it objectively correct c:
L918[12:02:35] <g> Wow, rude
L919[12:02:35] <g> lol
L920[12:02:41] * Forecaster sighs and goes back to coding
L921[12:02:58] <g> What's "objectively" bad about discord, then?
L922[12:03:50] <Temia> I could go into a long tirade about it, but I am le tired
L923[12:04:13] <Temia> Also people would be sick of hearing about it in short order.
L924[12:04:29] <payonel> ^.^ i love this useless channel :)
L925[12:04:31] <g> I'm just interested in what you can complain about that is irrefutably bad
L926[12:04:32] <g> lol
L927[12:04:47] <g> and also how you think IRC tackles it better
L928[12:04:54] <MGR> Payonel, this channel loves you too :p
L929[12:05:18] <payonel> Inari: that lick was completely unexpected, my favourite part
L930[12:05:19] <Temia> tl;dr opt-in is better than opt-out
L931[12:05:25] <Temia> There.
L932[12:05:28] <payonel> for some reason, i thought the dog would lick the cat instead
L933[12:05:34] <g> that tells me absolutely nothing
L934[12:06:16] <Temia> Then you can ask me later -- after I've had my morning coffee -- to elaborate.
L935[12:06:34] <g> it's already 6pm here so I'm probably gonna forget, lol
L936[12:06:55] <Temia> Then it appears we are at an impasse.
L937[12:07:56] <g> I will say in the case of a bunch of things with IRC though
L938[12:08:02] <g> I wish some things were opt-out instead of opt-in
L939[12:08:08] <g> for example, cloaking vhosts
L940[12:08:16] <g> get with it esper
L941[12:12:33] <MGR> Inari, I like weird names because that's half the fun!
L942[12:14:07] <Inari> payonel: Haha
L943[12:14:41] <Inari> g: The client not being opensource isn't great
L944[12:14:50] <Inari> g: I also don't know about community hosted servers
L945[12:14:59] <Inari> Or even an open protocol, though I may have missed that
L946[12:15:04] <g> It's an electron app, so you can actually get at the code pretty easily
L947[12:15:07] <g> the protocol is fully documented
L948[12:15:14] <Inari> g: the minified crapcode, yeah :P
L949[12:15:31] <g> No community servers, although if you're worrying about that, well.. You're on esper, so..
L950[12:15:39] <Inari> It's not even about if you can get it, but also allowance to modify and republish
L951[12:15:53] <Inari> g: And everyone can make their own IRC server shoudl they wish to do so
L952[12:15:56] <g> People have written a few tools that allow you to inject js/css into it
L953[12:16:03] <g> and they're okay with that
L954[12:16:06] <Inari> g: Which is a pain, especially with the minified code
L955[12:16:09] <g> but I guess you couldn't redistribute it
L956[12:16:22] <payonel> what client?
L957[12:16:34] <g> although I guess people making linux installers for unsupported distros are probably doing that just fine
L958[12:16:35] <g> discord
L959[12:16:40] <payonel> ah
L960[12:16:52] <g> yeah, minified code can be a bother to work with
L961[12:17:13] <g> I'm not sure if they're going to OSS any part of the client tbh, although they are planning on open-sourcing some of the backend
L962[12:17:48] <g> also yeah, it wouldn't be trivial to run your own server
L963[12:18:03] <g> I'm not sure I see the need to do that realistically though..
L964[12:18:03] <Inari> Anyway, its only provided client doesn't fit my needs
L965[12:18:10] <Inari> And I've been told making it fit my needs is going to be a pain
L966[12:18:15] <g> What do you need that it doesn't do?
L967[12:18:24] <Inari> Treeview of server and channels of each server
L968[12:18:35] <g> oh, yep, that would be non-trivial
L969[12:18:45] <g> iirc someone in here was working on a console client though if you're into that
L970[12:18:52] <Inari> I mean, I use it, but using it on multiple servers is a pain xD
L971[12:18:59] <Inari> Not a fan of console clients
L972[12:19:10] <Inari> Also Discord lacks stickers :<
L973[12:19:15] <g> you could probably hack around it with BetterDiscord
L974[12:19:21] <g> haha, we might see stickers yet, I dunno
L975[12:19:29] <g> we do have per-server emoji that you can use globally if you have nitro
L976[12:19:55] <Inari> I don't know how per-server emoji even work xD
L977[12:20:03] <g> oh, it's actually pretty simple
L978[12:20:07] <g> each server can have up to 50 custom emoji
L979[12:20:19] <g> there's an area for it in the server settings
L980[12:20:32] <g> anyone on the server can use it there, and they can also use it on other servers if they have nitro
L981[12:20:40] <g> assuming those servers don't remove the external emoji permission
L982[12:20:42] <g> that's about it
L983[12:21:10] ⇨ Joins: AshIndigo (~EiraIRC@host-92-11-196-119.as43234.net)
L984[12:21:12] ⇨ Joins: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-27-119.bna.bellsouth.net)
L985[12:23:00] <Inari> Hmm
L986[12:23:03] <Inari> I wihs Nitro cost less :P
L987[12:23:38] <g> I actually really like discord, so I jumped at it, lol
L988[12:24:49] <Inari> Its okay
L989[12:24:53] <Inari> But its so centralizede
L990[12:25:01] <g> That's never bothered me
L991[12:25:02] <Inari> Some years down the line they will close it down more, put ads and whatnot to make more money
L992[12:25:06] <Inari> And then everone has to move to the next thing
L993[12:25:14] <g> I don't think they'll add ads, :P
L994[12:25:14] <Tokiko> also the api is fucking shit
L995[12:25:16] <Tokiko> for bots
L996[12:25:27] <g> The api is the same api the client uses
L997[12:25:34] <MGR> g, I like discord too
L998[12:25:37] <g> it's.. fine, honestly, I don't have any issues with it
L999[12:25:53] <g> it just forces you to write code that tracks all the state the server sends it
L1000[12:25:57] <g> you can't be lazy
L1001[12:26:14] <Inari> g: WellI don't see why the ywouldn't
L1002[12:26:19] <Inari> And then Nitro will give you an adfree experience
L1003[12:26:49] <g> because they've always stated that they don't want to add ads to the client, or lock away any features that are available for free already
L1004[12:26:55] <payonel> i wish i could use a better client than weechat
L1005[12:27:25] <g> from talking to jake directly it seems more like they'd rather shut down and open source everything than have to add ads
L1006[12:27:26] <payonel> like...if i could run a local client and connect to my remote irc service where i keep a connection
L1007[12:28:09] <MGR> Payonel, you could do that with GERT
L1008[12:28:20] <payonel> i literally snort-laughed
L1009[12:28:31] <payonel> i'm sure i could solve it using a port forward as well
L1010[12:28:34] <payonel> i just haven't
L1011[12:28:47] <MGR> I'm glad I added enjoyment to your day
L1012[12:29:31] <Vexatos> as long as GERT doesn't end up in OpenOS :⁾
L1013[12:29:50] <MGR> Vexatos, just wait and see
L1014[12:30:04] <MGR> Counting chickens before they hatch is poor management
L1015[12:30:30] <payonel> i think he's boiling the eggs
L1016[12:30:30] <Vexatos> but it's super easy
L1017[12:30:44] <MGR> Payonel, he really is
L1018[12:30:49] <MGR> The bias is so strong
L1019[12:30:49] <Vexatos> you can just use sound or light to see which eggs are fertilized
L1020[12:30:51] <Vexatos> and healthy
L1021[12:31:13] <payonel> boiling eggs is a good thing. i love me some hard boiled eggs
L1022[12:31:32] <Inari> I love me some onsen eggs
L1023[12:31:41] <MGR> Payonel, not in this case
L1024[12:32:20] <Vexatos> payonel, soft boiled eggs are disgusting D:
L1025[12:32:26] <Vexatos> ten minutes at least D:
L1026[12:32:33] <payonel> agreed
L1027[12:32:33] <Forecaster> https://cdn.meme.am/cache/instances/folder102/57953102.jpg
L1028[12:32:35] <Inari> Soft boiled is great
L1029[12:32:39] <Inari> Unless the egg white is still werid
L1030[12:32:49] <payonel> i guess that's what i imagine when i think soft boiled
L1031[12:33:03] <payonel> i haven't enjoyed eggs of fine cuisine perhaps
L1032[12:33:58] ⇦ Quits: MindWorX (~MindWorX@2001:2012:141e:6f00:759c:7c3e:cf52:dda3) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1033[12:34:03] <Inari> How about unboiled egg?
L1034[12:34:08] <Inari> https://598d5fcf392acad97538-395e64798090ee0a3a571e8c148d44f2.ssl.cf1.rackcdn.com/5213267_tamago-kake-gohan_t9cc4c97.gif
L1035[12:34:19] <Forecaster> century eggs
L1036[12:34:30] ⇨ Joins: MindWorX (~MindWorX@2001:2012:141e:6f00:759c:7c3e:cf52:dda3)
L1037[12:35:18] <Vexatos> raw egg is fine
L1038[12:35:23] <Vexatos> in the right dish
L1039[12:35:29] <Vexatos> soft-boiled is terrible
L1040[12:35:32] ⇦ Quits: Kattery (v^@katt.is.cute.pxtst.com) (Quit: x.x Goodbye)
L1041[12:35:38] ⇨ Joins: Kattery (v^@katt.is.cute.pxtst.com)
L1042[12:37:35] <payonel> Inari: i enjoed foods in japan with raw eggs, such as nabe (i used to live there)
L1043[12:37:51] <Inari> :o
L1044[12:38:29] <Vexatos> japonel
L1045[12:38:30] <payonel> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nabemono
L1046[12:39:04] <Vexatos> Yea I don't mind raw egg with rice, etc
L1047[12:39:13] <Vexatos> but soft-boiled is just disgusting :X
L1048[12:39:20] ⇦ Quits: Kattery (v^@katt.is.cute.pxtst.com) (Ping timeout: 206 seconds)
L1049[12:39:31] <Inari> soft boiled egg yokl is like the best thing in the world
L1050[12:39:42] <MGR> Kattery keeps joining and quitting :/
L1051[12:40:07] <Mimiru> Hey, just remember.. you wanted join/quit
L1052[12:40:07] <Mimiru> :P
L1053[12:40:20] <TYKUHN2> It wasn't 200 seconds since she joined :p
L1054[12:40:24] <MGR> Mimiry, tis true
L1055[12:40:30] <Vexatos> >Mimiry
L1056[12:40:37] <MGR> Phone, why
L1057[12:40:43] <MGR> Mimiru*
L1058[12:40:44] *** Mimiru is now known as Mimiry
L1059[12:41:12] <MGR> But I just added Mimiru to my dictionary
L1060[12:41:14] ⇨ Joins: Kattery (v^@katt.is.cute.pxtst.com)
L1061[12:41:17] <Forecaster> red Mimiru goes to green Mimiry
L1062[12:41:24] <Mimiry> :P
L1063[12:41:30] *** Mimiry is now known as Mimiru
L1064[12:41:31] <Vexatos> Mimiry, mimicry
L1065[12:41:54] <Forecaster> mimi cries
L1066[12:42:10] ⇨ Joins: diglett (webchat@189-69-143-51.dial-up.telesp.net.br)
L1067[13:12:59] <Michiyo> bleh
L1068[13:13:02] <Michiyo> back at work
L1069[13:14:18] <Forecaster> Michiyo: in my test the lines aren't printed correctly
L1070[13:14:22] <Forecaster> the names are missing...
L1071[13:14:53] <Forecaster> is there some encoding junk that is cleaned in the display bit usually?
L1072[13:15:55] <Forecaster> oh wait
L1073[13:15:56] <Forecaster> duh
L1074[13:16:01] <Forecaster> the names are <name>
L1075[13:16:10] <Forecaster> they're being parsed as html I guess xD
L1076[13:17:08] <Forecaster> hah, yeah
L1077[13:19:11] ⇦ Quits: LuMistry (uid146685@id-146685.highgate.irccloud.com) (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
L1078[13:20:35] <Michiyo> lol yeah
L1079[13:20:42] <Michiyo> it took me a bit to figure that out too
L1080[13:22:16] <Forecaster> easy enough to fix :P
L1081[13:23:19] <Forecaster> I didn't expect it because I thought parseLine would prevent that
L1082[13:23:59] <Forecaster> (which I stole from the other script for that purpose)
L1083[13:26:21] <Michiyo> I fix that somewhere... just no idea where
L1084[13:26:32] <Forecaster> not in parseLine :P
L1085[13:27:07] <Michiyo> $line = htmlspecialchars($line);
L1086[13:27:26] <Michiyo> I call that before parseLine
L1087[13:27:36] <Forecaster> ah :P
L1088[13:27:45] <Michiyo> It's like that for a specific reason.
L1089[13:28:00] <Forecaster> because regex
L1090[13:28:01] <Forecaster> :P
L1091[13:28:02] <Michiyo> that is a VERY fragile chunk of code...
L1092[13:28:12] <Forecaster> ah
L1093[13:28:24] <Michiyo> yeah, it liked to totally break entire logs on oddly formatted URLs
L1094[13:28:40] <Michiyo> and fun mixtures of people using colors, and their clients not terminating them
L1095[13:29:13] <Forecaster> sounds amusing
L1096[13:30:39] <Michiyo> it was maddening lol
L1097[13:32:47] <Michiyo> Shoplifter in the town north of us, and their ONE cop is in court.. lol
L1098[13:32:54] <Michiyo> You'd think they'd let him go..
L1099[13:33:23] <Forecaster> Or hang him at dawn
L1100[13:33:32] <Michiyo> The cop?
L1101[13:33:32] <Michiyo> :P
L1102[13:33:49] <Forecaster> the shoplifter
L1103[13:34:04] <Michiyo> It's not the shoplifter's fault the cop is in court!
L1104[13:34:31] <Forecaster> it could be > . >
L1105[13:34:46] <Michiyo> Ugh.... I HATE RED5..
L1106[13:34:51] <Michiyo> the interface is in flash :/
L1107[13:34:56] <Forecaster> what is that?
L1108[13:34:59] <Michiyo> But it's this.. or pay $1995 for Wowza
L1109[13:35:09] <Michiyo> RTMP server
L1110[13:35:29] <Michiyo> I had it running in nginx, but I had to update nginx for php7...
L1111[13:35:39] <Forecaster> A "Read The Manual Porcupine Server"
L1112[13:35:42] <Michiyo> (it = rtmp streaming")
L1113[13:35:52] <Michiyo> Streaming media :P
L1114[13:35:57] <Michiyo> as in live streaming and shit
L1115[13:36:03] <Forecaster> but that's less interesting!
L1116[13:37:22] <Forecaster> okay maybe not
L1117[13:38:04] <Michiyo> lol
L1118[13:39:36] * Inari sighs
L1119[13:39:45] <Inari> All free MMOs just seem p2w nowdays
L1120[13:42:23] <Forecaster> pray-to-win
L1121[13:42:30] <Inari> :p
L1122[13:42:43] <Inari> Meh, I just need a MMO thats nice enough and doesn't cost monthly XD
L1123[13:43:00] <Michiyo> parry-to-win
L1124[13:43:11] <Forecaster> party-to-win
L1125[13:43:25] <Temia> preen-to-win
L1126[13:43:40] <Temia> Only the fluffiest birbs top the charts
L1127[13:44:16] <Inari> pleasure-to-win
L1128[13:44:30] * Temia sprays Inari with a garden hose
L1129[13:44:47] <Temia> Down!
L1130[13:51:30] <MGR> Temia, that won't work
L1131[13:54:34] <Forecaster> Michiyo: how important is it that this thing works sans javascript?
L1132[14:00:08] ⇦ Quits: Keanu73 (~Keanu73@host-92-29-198-75.as13285.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1133[14:00:15] <Michiyo> Forecaster, not really?
L1134[14:00:30] <Forecaster> okay, that's good :P
L1135[14:00:33] <Michiyo> lol
L1136[14:00:50] <Forecaster> cause some of it would be annoying to have to do in php alone
L1137[14:00:57] <Forecaster> https://twitter.com/mikeghacks/status/730713983892766720
L1138[14:00:58] <MichiBot> Thu May 12 05:59:24 CDT 2016 @mikeghacks: I just #hacked @Costco's LATEST @SentrySafe with nothing more than a magnet and a sock... AGAIN! https://t.co/TppVJH5j8A
L1139[14:02:45] <Michiyo> ha...
L1140[14:02:46] <Michiyo> :/
L1141[14:03:30] <Forecaster> "Again"...
L1142[14:04:44] <MGR> @Mimiru here's another one of those messages you're going to love
L1143[14:04:57] <MGR> In the pinned messages, it has an outdated topic ?
L1144[14:07:27] <Michiyo> can you guess who doesn't care?
L1145[14:07:36] <MGR> everyone
L1146[14:07:48] <MGR> including me
L1147[14:10:57] <Mimiru> Channel topic is: Forums: https://oc.cil.li/ | Wiki: http://ocd.cil.li/ | Latest version: 1.5.22 | Dev Builds: http://ci.cil.li/ | Channel Rules: https://oc.cil.li/index.php?/topic/171- | Stats: https://oclogs.pc-logix.com/stats.html
L1148[14:13:27] <Michiyo> ...
L1149[14:13:39] <Michiyo> Why did it send that..
L1150[14:13:43] * Michiyo shanks Corded
L1151[14:13:47] <Forecaster> xD
L1152[14:13:52] <Michiyo> THAT WASN'T A MESSAGE EVENT..
L1153[14:13:57] <Michiyo> that was a UNPIN MESSAGE EVENT
L1154[14:19:38] <Temia> Seems to have worked pretty well.
L1155[14:19:48] <Temia> I didn't even get the usual "nande D:"
L1156[14:22:17] <Forecaster> Michiyo: http://towerofawesome.org/artcounter/test?search=Forecaster
L1157[14:22:21] <Forecaster> what do you think?
L1158[14:23:18] <Michiyo> Terrible I hate it.,
L1159[14:23:20] <Michiyo> :P
L1160[14:23:22] <Michiyo> looks good
L1161[14:23:25] <Forecaster> ohno
L1162[14:23:30] <Forecaster> :P
L1163[14:23:47] <Forecaster> if I had more than one log file they'd be listed as well
L1164[14:23:53] <Forecaster> with their own boxes
L1165[14:24:01] <Forecaster> I should perhaps add some more to test that...
L1166[14:25:04] <Forecaster> there we go
L1167[14:25:55] <Forecaster> seems to work
L1168[14:26:09] <Forecaster> just gotta add a search box and stuff
L1169[14:26:37] <Temia> Huh, interesting.
L1170[14:26:51] <Forecaster> what is?
L1171[14:26:56] <Temia> It list MajGenRelativity separate from MGR.
L1172[14:27:05] <Temia> Oh well, I don't mind.
L1173[14:27:07] <Temia> LET HIS LEGACY BURN
L1174[14:27:33] <Forecaster> what does?
L1175[14:27:37] <Temia> Oh, the stats page.
L1176[14:27:50] <Temia> Sorry, I'm still caffeinating.
L1177[14:27:56] <Forecaster> oh
L1178[14:28:11] <Forecaster> don't it have to be told when two names belong to the same person?
L1179[14:28:24] <Forecaster> doesn't*
L1180[14:28:24] <Temia> Yeah.
L1181[14:28:25] <Inari> Forecaster: How can companies be so bad at this kinda thing
L1182[14:28:29] <Inari> @safe
L1183[14:28:39] <Forecaster> I dunno
L1184[14:28:48] <Forecaster> lack of futurevision I imagine
L1185[14:29:54] <Forecaster> or, you know, magic in general
L1186[14:30:09] <Michiyo> it does, I dunno how I've missed that, but the nicklist has been up on github for editing for *ages* :P
L1187[14:30:13] * gamax92 gives Temia a cup of coffee
L1188[14:30:29] <Forecaster> I don't particularly care in this case :P
L1189[14:31:26] <gamax92> also why is coffee always in a cup/mug
L1190[14:31:42] <Forecaster> convenience?
L1191[14:31:52] <Temia> Because it's considered a bad day if you need enough to drink it from a bowl.
L1192[14:32:19] <Temia> Whether because you need that much coffee or you've somehow wound up in a freaky friday scenario where you've switched bodies with your pet.
L1193[14:32:53] <Forecaster> or just, you know, neglected the dishes for a bit too long
L1194[14:32:54] <gamax92> I'd be more afraid of what my pet would do in a human body
L1195[14:33:51] <Temia> Mine would probably order a bunch of heated blankets off Amazon and curl up in them.
L1196[14:33:57] <Temia> So I'm not worried.
L1197[14:34:03] <Temia> Well, except for the cost issue.
L1198[14:36:29] <gamax92> I wonder how much a plane ticket costs
L1199[14:37:57] *** medsouz|offline is now known as medsouz
L1200[14:38:50] <gamax92> ahh well that's expensive.
L1201[14:40:58] *** minecreatr is now known as Mine|away
L1202[14:42:21] ⇦ Quits: glasspelican (~quassel@104.167.117.185) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1203[14:42:32] <MGR> Temia, why do you dislike me so much?
L1204[14:43:28] <Temia> If I may be perfectly, brutally honest for just one minute of my life?
L1205[14:43:40] <MGR> sure
L1206[14:43:58] <Forecaster> Michiyo: I'm done!
L1207[14:44:00] <Forecaster> https://gist.github.com/Forecaster/c05c058ffd104c670513569a6fc49fa6
L1208[14:44:07] <Temia> You're a tryhard. You claim you're not 12, but you never outgrew that phase of your life. You're emotionally stunted with delusions of importance.
L1209[14:44:19] <MGR> Ok
L1210[14:44:29] <MGR> Could I get some elaboration on how I am a tryhard?
L1211[14:45:41] <Michiyo> krumo?
L1212[14:45:47] <MGR> although perhaps
L1213[14:45:51] <Forecaster> oh, woops
L1214[14:45:54] <Forecaster> that's a debug thing
L1215[14:45:54] <MGR> that should wait until I can PM you
L1216[14:46:06] <MGR> Hold off on that explanation please Temia ?
L1217[14:46:10] <Temia> Whenever you're not absorbed in technical details, you're self-aggrandising and passing yourself off as someone more powerful than you are through contextually-irrelevant roleplay.
L1218[14:46:18] <Temia> Too late :D
L1219[14:46:29] <MGR> ok
L1220[14:46:35] <Forecaster> Michiyo: fixed :P
L1221[14:46:38] <MGR> But, I'm going to hold my answer until I can PM you
L1222[14:47:09] <Temia> The Global Empire, the Frieza bit -- it's all a power fantasy, and one we have no interest in.
L1223[14:47:28] <MGR> I'm still going to hold my answer ?
L1224[14:47:36] <Temia> That's fine.
L1225[14:47:39] <Michiyo> https://oclogs.pc-logix.com/search?search=Meh Forecaster
L1226[14:47:40] <Temia> My minute's up anyway.
L1227[14:47:48] ⇨ Joins: glasspelican (~quassel@104.167.117.185)
L1228[14:48:22] <Forecaster> Michiyo: any problems?
L1229[14:48:30] <Michiyo> seems to work well
L1230[14:48:30] <Michiyo> thanks
L1231[14:48:35] <Forecaster> I could cut off after x files and have a "show more" thing
L1232[14:48:46] <Temia> Michi: Imagining the one in August '14 being completely sequential is amusing for some reason. I need more coffee
L1233[14:48:57] ⇨ Joins: techno156 (~techno156@203.114.73.135)
L1234[14:49:40] <Temia> Oh wait, there are multiple August '14s
L1235[14:49:41] <Forecaster> the files are also not in order, which could probably be improved
L1236[14:49:45] <Temia> But they're unsorted @_@
L1237[14:49:46] <Temia> Aggh
L1238[14:50:10] <Temia> Okay, the one on 2014-08-24! D:
L1239[14:50:11] <Forecaster> I kind of assumed the dir iteration would go over the files in the right order
L1240[14:51:05] <Forecaster> this will do for now, I'll have a look at sorting things tomorrow
L1241[14:54:18] <ZeekDaGeek> Is there supposed to be a new way to set the default resolution of a screen?
L1242[14:54:31] <Forecaster> "new way"?
L1243[14:54:32] <Michiyo> I had them in order... :P
L1244[14:54:42] <ZeekDaGeek> If I put gpu.setResolution in my autorun it gets instantly reverted back to default.
L1245[14:55:15] <Forecaster> uh
L1246[14:55:23] <Forecaster> I dunno how that works
L1247[14:55:26] <Forecaster> payonel: ?
L1248[14:56:08] <Forecaster> oh, Michiyo "Download All" doesn't work
L1249[14:56:44] <gamax92> where is Inari
L1250[14:57:33] <Forecaster> Michiyo: also updated it with sorting
L1251[14:58:33] <payonel> ?
L1252[14:58:43] <Forecaster> Zeeks question
L1253[14:58:54] <payonel> autoruns are not a good place to set resolution
L1254[14:59:07] <payonel> goodness, i need to write that wiki page....tonight!
L1255[14:59:13] <MGR> just wondering
L1256[14:59:16] <Forecaster> @ZeekDaGeek: it'd help if you told us what you're doing
L1257[14:59:17] <MGR> what is a good place?
L1258[14:59:22] <payonel> i'll be right back, zeek
L1259[14:59:27] * payonel afk for 2 mins
L1260[15:00:21] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek Just put "resolution <x> <y>" into /home/.shrc
L1261[15:00:29] <Vexatos> it runs resolution.lua on boot
L1262[15:00:43] <Vexatos> .shrc is the best way to run commands on startup
L1263[15:01:58] <Forecaster> mh, might be better to have the latest log at the top?
L1264[15:02:02] <Michiyo> Forecaster, I have *NO* Idea what you could mean, it works FINE for me.. :P
L1265[15:02:18] <Michiyo> Of COURSE I didn't leave debug code in there..
L1266[15:02:28] <Forecaster> what?
L1267[15:02:45] <Forecaster> I'm confused now :P
L1268[15:02:50] <Michiyo> the Download All, works perfectly fine
L1269[15:02:52] <Michiyo> :P
L1270[15:02:54] <Forecaster> oh right
L1271[15:02:55] <Michiyo> wink wink...
L1272[15:03:04] <Forecaster> :P
L1273[15:03:15] <Forecaster> I also just realized I forgot the line linking thing
L1274[15:03:20] <Michiyo> lolol
L1275[15:03:22] <Forecaster> I'll add that too
L1276[15:03:31] <Forecaster> should I reverse the order too?
L1277[15:03:40] <Forecaster> so the most recent file is at the top
L1278[15:03:53] * Michiyo shrug
L1279[15:04:42] <Forecaster> I'll do that, feels more right to me :P
L1280[15:07:51] <ZeekDaGeek> That's a shame, resolution.lua didn't use to reset screen size and it would allow you to still have the motd at the top when your computer started.
L1281[15:08:52] <payonel> ok back, sorruy
L1282[15:10:17] <payonel> the problem with using autorun for resolution changes is that autorun is run in response to component_added, and happens during boot, but possibly 1. before there is a gpu/screen/etc, and 2. before there is a shell
L1283[15:10:19] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek Yell at payonel here
L1284[15:10:20] <Vexatos> He's the OpenOS developer
L1285[15:10:51] <payonel> then issue with #2 is that the shell loads the user profile (/etc/profile and /home/.shrc), and in these a user may prefer to set a custom resolution
L1286[15:11:09] <payonel> so i would recommend using the user profile settings for custom resolutions
L1287[15:11:27] <Vexatos> (read: ~/.shrc)
L1288[15:11:42] <payonel> one day i'll get ~ support added too :)
L1289[15:11:47] <Vexatos> I hope
L1290[15:11:52] <Vexatos> just /home/.shrc for now
L1291[15:11:57] <Vexatos> wait, didn't cd ~ already work
L1292[15:12:00] <Vexatos> or did I imagine that
L1293[15:12:03] <payonel> i have a branch for ~ work, but i found some rabbit holes
L1294[15:12:08] <ZeekDaGeek> Setting resolution by ~/.shrc I'm assuming only accepts commands
L1295[15:12:19] <Vexatos> yea, one command per line
L1296[15:12:19] <Vexatos> not Lua code
L1297[15:12:29] <ZeekDaGeek> resolution.lua clears the terminal and you can't have any of your pretty startups.
L1298[15:12:43] <Vexatos> then run motd afterwards
L1299[15:12:43] <payonel> zeek: you could write a script, and call it from .shrc
L1300[15:12:51] <Vexatos> payonel, isn't it just motd?
L1301[15:13:17] <payonel> sorry what about motd?
L1302[15:13:19] <Vexatos> Oh wait
L1303[15:13:29] <ZeekDaGeek> motd isn't even a command apparently.
L1304[15:13:38] <Vexatos> Sorry, I thought it was
L1305[15:13:53] <payonel> motd is a lua script, weird perhaps :)
L1306[15:14:15] <payonel> it is executed by shell->sh->source /etc/profile->motd
L1307[15:14:27] <Vexatos> yea I just saw that
L1308[15:14:43] <Vexatos> payonel, so yea, can't he just put /etc/motd into .shrc?
L1309[15:15:03] <payonel> sure, the issue is he wants the resolution to be custom and not flicker and lose the motd?
L1310[15:15:20] <Vexatos> I assume so
L1311[15:15:38] <Vexatos> but resetting the resolution without clearing the screen would mean not redrawing
L1312[15:15:43] <payonel> or perhaps put the resolution line above motd in profile ...
L1313[15:15:45] <Vexatos> and that makes it look more messy, no?
L1314[15:15:52] <Vexatos> payonel, oh that you mean
L1315[15:15:53] <Vexatos> hmmm
L1316[15:15:59] <Inari> gamax92: ?
L1317[15:16:12] <payonel> yeah, it'd be messy
L1318[15:16:14] <gamax92> oh there you are
L1319[15:16:28] <Vexatos> payonel, I mean shrc stands for shell run command
L1320[15:16:30] <Vexatos> err
L1321[15:16:31] <Vexatos> what
L1322[15:16:37] <Vexatos> copypasta pls
L1323[15:16:38] <Vexatos> http://git.io/vDqIq
L1324[15:16:39] <Vexatos> there
L1325[15:16:46] <Vexatos> can't he just run /etc/motd again+
L1326[15:16:51] <Vexatos> after running resolution?
L1327[15:16:51] <payonel> yes
L1328[15:16:56] <Vexatos> to generate a new one?
L1329[15:16:59] <payonel> yep
L1330[15:17:38] <ZeekDaGeek> autorun.lua has always seemed like a very portable thing that you could put device to device very simply.
L1331[15:17:50] <Vexatos> same with .shrc
L1332[15:17:55] <Vexatos> autorun.lua is generic
L1333[15:18:00] <Vexatos> it works on all filesystems
L1334[15:18:03] <Vexatos> and is run when they are mounted
L1335[15:18:07] <Vexatos> including the main one
L1336[15:18:15] <Vexatos> .shrc is run when the shell has booted up
L1337[15:18:22] <ZeekDaGeek> I've always carried around a floppy that I would just pop into an OC thing and copy my settings to a computer, .shrc has it's own set of things in it that I have no idea are going to be vital or different in the next version.
L1338[15:18:24] <payonel> zeek: right, it's just you don't have control over the "when they are mounted", the sequence of events is "random"
L1339[15:18:26] <Vexatos> so right before you get access to it and can start typing
L1340[15:18:52] <Vexatos> all that .shrc does right now is set some aliases, I doubt those will change much
L1341[15:19:04] <payonel> zeek: .shrc is like .bashrc
L1342[15:19:17] <Vexatos> just for sh instead of bash
L1343[15:19:35] <payonel> openos's sh even :/
L1344[15:19:42] <Vexatos> So yea, edit /home/.shrc and add a resolution <x> <y> followed by a /etc/motd
L1345[15:19:46] <Vexatos> that should work just fine
L1346[15:20:00] <Vexatos> From what I can tell
L1347[15:20:25] <payonel> zeek: autorun is still supported, and will continue to be. the timing of boot order and login shell does not promise autorun order at all
L1348[15:20:27] <ZeekDaGeek> I know bash just seems more stabel, complete and unchanging at the moment.
L1349[15:20:34] <Vexatos> payonel, I mean it could be cool if there was some sort of config in /etc that you could edit and /etc/profile would automatically set the res from there
L1350[15:20:50] <Vexatos> before running .shrc and motd
L1351[15:20:59] <ZeekDaGeek> OC seems to be going through a transition and I don't know if anything new is going to be added to the .shrc file.
L1352[15:21:07] <payonel> zeek: nope
L1353[15:21:09] <Vexatos> Is it?
L1354[15:21:16] <Vexatos> Nothing really happened to OC for months
L1355[15:21:22] <Vexatos> Ever since Sangar got a job
L1356[15:21:24] <payonel> zeek: nothing will happen to .shrc
L1357[15:21:34] <ZeekDaGeek> Okay.
L1358[15:21:39] <payonel> it's just there for convenience
L1359[15:21:41] <Vexatos> Take it from the guy who made shrc
L1360[15:21:55] <Vexatos> and most of what OpenOS is right now, anyhow
L1361[15:22:00] <payonel> i could have left it empty, and had everything in /etc/profile
L1362[15:22:14] <Vexatos> but this way people know it exists
L1363[15:22:19] <Vexatos> and know how to use it
L1364[15:22:37] <payonel> yeah, maybe a "#startup commands" would have been sufficient
L1365[15:22:44] <payonel> meh
L1366[15:23:09] <payonel> Vexatos: having a config for res on boot does seem to have some interest, beyond just this conversation
L1367[15:23:19] <payonel> suggestions for the config file location?
L1368[15:23:20] <Vexatos> payonel, config in general
L1369[15:23:22] <Vexatos> .config
L1370[15:23:25] <payonel> hmm
L1371[15:23:27] <payonel> ok
L1372[15:23:27] <Vexatos> formatted maybe like
L1373[15:23:29] <Vexatos> key=value
L1374[15:23:31] <Vexatos> so e.g.
L1375[15:23:34] <payonel> i'll put that on the list of things to review
L1376[15:23:38] <Vexatos> res=34 2545
L1377[15:23:54] <Vexatos> and then some /bin/checkconfig or /lib can check for the presence of res
L1378[15:23:58] <ZeekDaGeek> It'll be slightly confusing because all of the documentation and tutorials out there that tell people to use autorun.lua to do things that now get over wrote by /etc/profile and ~/.shrc
L1379[15:24:00] <Vexatos> and if it is there, do stuff
L1380[15:24:10] <Vexatos> Zeek: shrc has been a pretty recent addition
L1381[15:24:13] <payonel> zeek: resolution is the exception here
L1382[15:24:20] <payonel> zeek: autorun is still valid
L1383[15:24:21] <Vexatos> payo only completely rewrote OpenOS half a year ago
L1384[15:24:39] <Vexatos> So not much people know about it
L1385[15:24:51] <Vexatos> Not to mention there not being many reliable sources of documentation for OC at all
L1386[15:25:01] <Vexatos> but yes, autorun.lua still works
L1387[15:25:05] <Vexatos> it is the old system
L1388[15:25:17] <Vexatos> it is unreliable in a sense that you cannot control the order in which the autoruns are executed
L1389[15:25:25] <ZeekDaGeek> Not quiet unique, anyone who uses autorun to set any aliases that is overwitten by the two would have problems wouldn't they?
L1390[15:25:29] <Vexatos> and it is quite a bit before the shell starts
L1391[15:25:35] <Vexatos> while shrc is run _just_ before it starts
L1392[15:25:36] <payonel> autorun.lua + resolution change USED to be okay because the terminal was vunerable (i.e. would easily break) to swapping screens
L1393[15:26:13] <payonel> zeek: aliases via autoruns - true, those could be overwritten
L1394[15:26:19] <payonel> but this was the correct change to make
L1395[15:26:19] <Vexatos> autorun.lua, nowadays, should mostly be used to mount filesystems to places you like
L1396[15:26:33] <Vexatos> they are automatically mounted to /mnt of course
L1397[15:26:46] <Vexatos> but you might like your second hard drive to be on /mnt/potato instead of just /mnt/a534
L1398[15:27:03] <payonel> hehe, potato
L1399[15:27:17] ⇦ Quits: Trangar (~Trangar@249-153-145-85.ftth.glasoperator.nl) (Quit: Leaving)
L1400[15:27:19] <Vexatos> so yea, autorun.lua is specific to the hard drive or floppy it's on and one autorun on each filesystem is executed on mount
L1401[15:27:23] <Vexatos> while there is only one .shrc
L1402[15:27:35] <Vexatos> it's a recent addition and much better for general <stuff to run on startup>
L1403[15:27:36] <ZeekDaGeek> Does seem like /motd/ should be in .shrc though.
L1404[15:27:46] <Vexatos> motd is run before .shrc is
L1405[15:28:08] <payonel> zeek: in the linux world, motd is in in the general system profile, not user specific
L1406[15:28:13] <Vexatos> meaning if you run resolution in .shrc the screen will be cleared and your motd will be gone, so if you want to keep motd you need to run it again after changing the res
L1407[15:28:17] <payonel> .shrc should be akin to ~/.bashrc
L1408[15:28:42] <payonel> the disconnect here is with the resolution. you are losing it because the terminal is loading
L1409[15:28:51] <TYKUHN2> He will not divide us but bitcoin will unite us. Is that right?
L1410[15:29:02] <payonel> and the terminal says "I'm FULLSCREEN!" because it detects a new (first) screen
L1411[15:29:36] <ZeekDaGeek> Hm my internal distinction was that everything in profile looked essential and motd just looked out of place next to it all.
L1412[15:29:53] <Temia> Come to think of it, is there an /etc/sh.shrc or similar?
L1413[15:30:05] <payonel> irl? /etc/profile
L1414[15:30:12] <Temia> Oh right.
L1415[15:30:18] <payonel> and /etc/bash/bashrc or /etc/bash.d/ ..
L1416[15:30:18] <Temia> I'm talking about OpenOS though.
L1417[15:30:26] <payonel> /etc/profile and /home/.shrc
L1418[15:30:32] <Temia> Okay.
L1419[15:30:33] <payonel> that's it, profile calls /home/.shrc
L1420[15:30:55] <Temia> I seem to have an outdated build of OCEmu.
L1421[15:31:12] <payonel> zeek: the system will boot without /etc/profile
L1422[15:31:32] <payonel> but, having just rm'd it for testing (as per our discussion) i see i have some silly unchecked load steps
L1423[15:31:34] <payonel> i'll fix those
L1424[15:31:36] <payonel> but it boots
L1425[15:31:40] <payonel> :/
L1426[15:31:50] <payonel> but ls is broken because i'm a newb
L1427[15:32:03] <payonel> ...i thought i had that tested at some point
L1428[15:32:06] <Temia> You'd think /etc/profile would be the best place for the motd to be called
L1429[15:32:09] <Vexatos> payonel, if you are a newb than what am I
L1430[15:32:15] <payonel> a potato
L1431[15:32:23] <Vexatos> you have unit tests for this stuff, my tests consist of "hey it didn't crash"
L1432[15:35:27] ⇦ Quits: AshIndigo (~EiraIRC@host-92-11-196-119.as43234.net) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1433[15:36:46] <payonel> zeek: are you displeased with my solution because previously, your floppy was all you needed?
L1434[15:37:20] <Forecaster> @ZeekDaGeek: ^
L1435[15:37:39] <TYKUHN2> Does compiling lua code produce anything smaller on average?
L1436[15:37:53] <Forecaster> lua doesn't compile
L1437[15:38:05] <TYKUHN2> You can compile. Normal operation doesn't compile.
L1438[15:38:12] <Forecaster> you can?
L1439[15:38:15] <Forecaster> I didn't know that
L1440[15:38:25] <TYKUHN2> .luac
L1441[15:38:42] <ZeekDaGeek> Not really displeased, just disappointed that it used to be easier.
L1442[15:38:51] <TYKUHN2> Alternatively I think string.dump is some form of "compile" but I may be wrong on that front.
L1443[15:39:10] <ZeekDaGeek> I guess I can just read and write to the /etc/profile dynamically when loading a floppy.
L1444[15:39:12] <Vexatos> string.dump gives you the Lua bytecode
L1445[15:39:37] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek well autorun.lua on a floppy still works, just make autorun.lua write to .shrc
L1446[15:39:42] <Vexatos> or something like that
L1447[15:39:58] <TYKUHN2> Lua bytecode is basically compiled I believe
L1448[15:40:04] <Vexatos> I would not touch /etc/profile
L1449[15:40:09] <Vexatos> only /home/.shrc
L1450[15:40:17] <payonel> zeek: i would ... ^ what vex said
L1451[15:40:33] <ZeekDaGeek> My need for efficiency doesn't want to let me run the /motd/ twice so I want to stay away from /.shrc for setting resolution. ?
L1452[15:40:43] <Inari> Lua compiles to lua bytecode, yeah
L1453[15:40:56] <payonel> i sympathize
L1454[15:40:57] <TYKUHN2> On average is bytecode smaller?
L1455[15:41:05] <Vexatos> autorun.lua on a floppy is fine if you insert the floppy after the shell has loaded :P
L1456[15:41:14] <payonel> hehe, yep :)
L1457[15:41:37] <Vexatos> it's just that autorun.lua is run using an event listener
L1458[15:41:41] <Vexatos> component_added
L1459[15:41:47] <Vexatos> so it may interrupt startup at any time
L1460[15:41:55] <Vexatos> and that is not consistent
L1461[15:42:27] <Forecaster> Michiyo: allright, that should do it
L1462[15:42:35] <Vexatos> And it never was
L1463[15:42:38] <Forecaster> final update, for real, 100%, nothing forgotten
L1464[15:42:38] ⇦ Quits: Meow-J (~Meow-J@45.32.34.121) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1465[15:42:46] ⇨ Joins: Meow-J (~Meow-J@45.32.34.121)
L1466[15:43:15] <Inari> TYKUHN2: Well, yeah?
L1467[15:43:24] <Inari> I'd assum eso at least
L1468[15:43:24] <Inari> :P
L1469[15:43:38] <Vexatos> Now, sometimes the resolution is reset and then set and sometimes it is set and then reset
L1470[15:43:49] <payonel> zeekdageek: the "breaking" change here was to /lib/term
L1471[15:44:01] <Vexatos> you have no control over which is done first, detecting the primary screen or detecting the filesystem with autorun
L1472[15:44:01] <payonel> /lib/term is _now_ resiliant to screen/gpu changes
L1473[15:44:20] <payonel> that's why res changes don't "persist" from autorun
L1474[15:44:22] <Vexatos> it resets the resolution to max res whenever it detects a new gpu/screen
L1475[15:45:28] <ZeekDaGeek> Which is odd because it's writing to the screen way before that's loaded, it's not like it's the first to detect a screen and set it's resolution to default.
L1476[15:45:57] <Vexatos> you mean the boot sequence?
L1477[15:46:19] <Vexatos> That is using whatever the first gpu it finds is, it is not actually processing the "new GPU" event
L1478[15:47:13] <Vexatos> it's the terminal library doing that, it is completely separate from what boot (init.lua) does
L1479[15:47:20] ⇦ Quits: diglett (webchat@189-69-143-51.dial-up.telesp.net.br) (Quit: Web client closed)
L1480[15:48:26] <TYKUHN2> Last night I asked with different users online and got answered "Depends on the program" which I suppose makes sense
L1481[15:48:34] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek one option would be getting payonel to deprocrastinate and add some sort of config file to /etc so you can set a startup resolution there.
L1482[15:48:35] <Forecaster> https://twitter.com/herrmansen/status/826546752606068737
L1483[15:48:35] <MichiBot> Tue Jan 31 15:44:36 CST 2017 @herrmansen: @themeatly https://t.co/6Ps6a1ceVF
L1484[15:48:47] <Vexatos> One option would be to patch .shrc in autorun.lua
L1485[15:48:51] <Forecaster> that is the best thing™
L1486[15:48:52] <payonel> deprocrastinate :)
L1487[15:49:12] <Vexatos> Isn't that the term?
L1488[15:49:21] <payonel> should be
L1489[15:49:45] <ZeekDaGeek> Yeah making autorun happen as part of .shrc would kind of fix it too.
L1490[15:49:51] <Vexatos> Can't do that
L1491[15:50:00] <Vexatos> autorun.lua is an integral part of filesystem management
L1492[15:50:10] <Vexatos> .shrc is related to the shell
L1493[15:50:14] <Vexatos> autorun.lua to filesystems
L1494[15:50:20] <Vexatos> they are completely separate things :X
L1495[15:51:41] <Vexatos> payonel, you're working on an OpenOS patch anyway, right?
L1496[15:51:53] <Vexatos> I wonder how hard it'd be to make some sort of _decent_ config system
L1497[15:52:09] <Vexatos> I mean, key=value lines doesn't sound too bad
L1498[15:52:15] <Vexatos> but there might be something better
L1499[15:52:25] <Forecaster> xml
L1500[15:52:27] <Forecaster> :D
L1501[15:52:34] * Forecaster hides
L1502[15:53:01] <payonel> i just want to finish my last 2 fixes and get my big patch out
L1503[15:53:12] <payonel> but this is on the list
L1504[15:53:52] <Forecaster> xml confirmed
L1505[15:53:58] <payonel> Forecaster: :) haha
L1506[15:54:08] <payonel> zeekdageek: for example, i just tested with autorun+resolution and it "worked"
L1507[15:54:14] <payonel> but yeah...that's just timing
L1508[15:54:36] <ZeekDaGeek> On my side it will change the resolution for a flash then change back with autorun.lua
L1509[15:55:37] <Vexatos> as I said, the order is more or less random
L1510[15:55:43] <Michiyo> Forecaster, https://oclogs.pc-logix.com/search?search=Merp&case=1
L1511[15:55:55] <Vexatos> it is not predictable whether the GPU event is processed before the filesystem one
L1512[15:55:58] <Forecaster> woo
L1513[15:56:01] <Forecaster> :>
L1514[15:56:31] <Michiyo> I may set it to case insensitive by default, and have the check reverse it
L1515[15:56:33] <Michiyo> :P
L1516[15:57:28] <Forecaster> just set line 36 to true
L1517[15:57:38] <TYKUHN2> Wow
L1518[15:57:55] <TYKUHN2> OpenWRT, the firmware I'm using, has a package named "samba" but it refuses to appear on my list
L1519[15:59:00] <TYKUHN2> I figured out why
L1520[15:59:07] <TYKUHN2> Package list is stored in /var
L1521[15:59:08] <Michiyo> K, but that forces case insensitive :P
L1522[15:59:11] <TYKUHN2> /var is routed to /ram
L1523[15:59:12] <Michiyo> afk
L1524[15:59:53] <Forecaster> no it doesn't? it should just just set the default?
L1525[15:59:58] * Forecaster squints at his code
L1526[16:02:29] <Forecaster> oh, it doesn't because I messed up another bit of the script :|
L1527[16:02:38] <Forecaster> dammit, I was wrong about it being the final update
L1528[16:03:49] <Forecaster> there, now line 36 should just set the default
L1529[16:04:45] <Vexatos> payonel, so another solution would be a command to schedule executions
L1530[16:04:54] <TYKUHN2> mv important.file /ram && reboot
L1531[16:05:00] <payonel> like a pushSignal but for commands?
L1532[16:05:01] <Vexatos> i.e. "in 2 seconds run this" or "after shell init run this"
L1533[16:05:15] <Vexatos> as in, either by time or by certain events
L1534[16:05:20] <Michiyo> Forecaster, still nope
L1535[16:05:25] <Vexatos> you could actually use pushSignal
L1536[16:05:27] <payonel> i had started a rework of rc back before 1.6 to have load deps and remove /boot/## stuff
L1537[16:05:33] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek could then use event.listen
L1538[16:05:38] <Forecaster> whaaat, but it seems to be working for me...
L1539[16:05:48] <Vexatos> just listen to a, uuuh, "sh_init" event
L1540[16:05:49] <Vexatos> or whatever
L1541[16:06:36] <Vexatos> %tell Magik6k why does the network package install to //lib instead of /lib
L1542[16:06:36] <MichiBot> Vexatos: Magik6k will be notified of this message when next seen.
L1543[16:06:54] <Forecaster> oh wait...
L1544[16:06:55] <Forecaster> dangit
L1545[16:07:18] <payonel> there is a term_available event. and you can make an event listener self detach
L1546[16:07:41] <Vexatos> yea exactly
L1547[16:07:43] <Vexatos> so, like
L1548[16:08:23] <Michiyo> Forecaster, theres a git repo now :p
L1549[16:08:26] <payonel> term_available is pushed after the resolution is set, too (just to be clear abot that)
L1550[16:08:34] <Forecaster> :O
L1551[16:08:37] <Michiyo> https://github.com/CaitlynMainer/OCLogs
L1552[16:09:18] <Michiyo> afk again..
L1553[16:09:26] <Vexatos> payonel, something like this? https://hastebin.com/siximezohi.lua
L1554[16:09:57] <payonel> yes, but (maybe easier) you can return false
L1555[16:10:04] <Vexatos> wait that works
L1556[16:10:14] <payonel> yeah, probably not documented :/
L1557[16:10:17] <payonel> but legacy
L1558[16:10:40] <Vexatos> if it is legacy, what is the new way
L1559[16:10:58] <payonel> https://github.com/MightyPirates/OpenComputers/blob/master-MC1.7.10/src/main/resources/assets/opencomputers/loot/openos/lib/event.lua#L76
L1560[16:11:02] <payonel> i mean..i didn't remove that support
L1561[16:11:09] <payonel> you can still return false
L1562[16:11:11] <payonel> and be removed
L1563[16:11:32] <payonel> i redid the event dispatch code, but i kept support for those workflows
L1564[16:11:54] <Michiyo> now to deploy on push
L1565[16:11:57] <Vexatos> I never knew
L1566[16:12:06] <payonel> maybe i shouldn't share that .. :)
L1567[16:12:07] <payonel> haha
L1568[16:12:11] <payonel> in case one day it should be removed
L1569[16:12:13] <payonel> :/
L1570[16:12:38] <Vexatos> replaced with what?
L1571[16:12:41] <payonel> but your solution definitely works
L1572[16:12:47] <Vexatos> if you say it is legacy
L1573[16:12:50] <Vexatos> there must be a new way
L1574[16:13:13] <payonel> legacy then is the wrong word, im not saying deprecated, i mean to say it's been there from before i started
L1575[16:13:21] <Vexatos> ok
L1576[16:13:22] <Vexatos> https://hastebin.com/ehadegivaj.lua
L1577[16:13:25] <Vexatos> so this would work?
L1578[16:13:29] <payonel> yes
L1579[16:13:34] <Vexatos> @ZeekDaGeek ^
L1580[16:13:44] <Vexatos> for autorun.lua
L1581[16:14:12] ⇨ Joins: Nachtara (~Nachiebre@173-22-110-5.client.mchsi.com)
L1582[16:15:20] <payonel> zeekdageek, in fact, if you remove the 'return false' line, your autorun will make sure the resolution persists even with gpu+screen swaps :)
L1583[16:15:37] <payonel> though, it'd reprint the motd :/
L1584[16:15:39] <payonel> hehe
L1585[16:15:52] <payonel> which could be during other program runtimes
L1586[16:15:54] <payonel> :)
L1587[16:16:30] <Vexatos> yea this is a one-time run
L1588[16:16:31] <Vexatos> ._.
L1589[16:16:48] <Vexatos> payonel, wait, is the event fired every screen reset?
L1590[16:17:04] <payonel> yes
L1591[16:17:34] <Vexatos> interesting
L1592[16:18:16] <payonel> it means "the terminal has a gpu and screen to draw to"
L1593[16:24:29] <Michiyo> Ok Forecaster in theory, all you have to do is push and it'll update the live site
L1594[16:26:02] <Michiyo> ._. or not
L1595[16:28:51] <TYKUHN2> Tempted
L1596[16:29:00] <TYKUHN2> Tempted to update my router's code to 5.3
L1597[16:30:17] <Michiyo> There it goes, ok Forecaster now when you push it'll pull
L1598[16:30:24] <Forecaster> woo
L1599[16:30:39] <Forecaster> I'm going to invert the gitignore
L1600[16:30:59] <TYKUHN2> module()?
L1601[16:32:04] <Michiyo> however you wanna do it I just had to get something so it wouldn't try to nuke the logs :P
L1602[16:32:19] <TYKUHN2> What does module do beyond require?
L1603[16:32:43] <Michiyo> ._. I've made $1.16 today
L1604[16:33:37] <Forecaster> I prefer including files instead of excluding files :>
L1605[16:34:00] <Forecaster> something I didn't know was possible until a certain toast showed me
L1606[16:35:15] <Forecaster> how does it detect when there's a pull?
L1607[16:35:22] <Forecaster> or did you just schedule it?
L1608[16:35:33] <Michiyo> github webhook
L1609[16:35:35] <Forecaster> s/pull/push
L1610[16:35:35] <MichiBot> <Forecaster> how does it detect when there's a push?
L1611[16:35:38] <Forecaster> ah
L1612[16:35:45] <Michiyo> just sends a post to a pull.php
L1613[16:35:48] <Michiyo> which is in the repo :P
L1614[16:35:57] <Forecaster> yeah I saw it :P
L1615[16:36:17] <TYKUHN2> module() seems useless
L1616[16:37:25] <TYKUHN2> Like REALLY useless
L1617[16:39:14] <Michiyo> hmm...
L1618[16:39:20] <Michiyo> and that may not be working properly
L1619[16:39:52] <Forecaster> it's listing gitpull.sh on the index
L1620[16:40:17] <Michiyo> yeah that file needs to go anyway
L1621[16:41:32] <Michiyo> Oh...
L1622[16:41:34] <Michiyo> theres an error
L1623[16:41:36] <Michiyo> o_O
L1624[16:41:44] <Forecaster> where?
L1625[16:42:54] <Michiyo> git was spitting out an error about local changes, on files that hadn't changed
L1626[16:43:06] <Michiyo> which is why the deletion of those files wasn't working
L1627[16:43:06] ⇦ Quits: Nathan1852 (~Nathan185@HSI-KBW-091-089-189-253.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de) (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
L1628[16:43:06] <Forecaster> huh
L1629[16:43:15] <Michiyo> so I reset --hard HEAD and then git pull'd
L1630[16:43:41] <Michiyo> dunno why it didn't print the error to the browser
L1631[16:43:46] <Michiyo> would have made debugging easier
L1632[16:44:46] <Forecaster> passablarbly
L1633[16:45:22] <Forecaster> well, I've run out of time
L1634[16:45:25] <Forecaster> time to bed
L1635[16:46:11] <Michiyo> Night Forecaster thanks
L1636[16:46:39] <Forecaster> I'll fix the default thing tomorrow!
L1637[16:46:47] <Michiyo> Sounds good
L1638[16:46:50] <Forecaster> amongst continuing editing my videos
L1639[16:47:04] <Michiyo> And now you don't have to wait on my slowness :p
L1640[16:47:22] <Michiyo> Modify however you see fit
L1641[16:50:44] <TYKUHN2> SCP was becomin clunky. Downloaded SFTP
L1642[16:58:36] <TYKUHN2> Building a reference tree of LuCI
L1643[16:58:40] <Forecaster> http://m.imgur.com/gallery/NDsYNNr
L1644[17:03:13] ⇦ Quits: Inari (~Pinkishu@p5DEC6963.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: 'Multiplayer boobs!')
L1645[17:08:15] <TYKUHN2> Anyways
L1646[17:08:29] <TYKUHN2> Thinking I might as well decompose one branch I finished tracing
L1647[17:13:31] <TYKUHN2> My branch got cut off by an so
L1648[17:20:20] <TYKUHN2> BLOODY
L1649[17:20:23] <TYKUHN2> Sound another .so
L1650[17:20:32] <TYKUHN2> And it's hidden amongst .lua
L1651[17:28:22] ⇦ Quits: sciguyryan (~sciguyrya@45.62.37.37) (Remote host closed the connection)
L1652[17:30:46] <TYKUHN2> Pretty sure just removing the "module" line is sufficient for upgrading most of this code to 5.3
L1653[17:30:50] <TYKUHN2> Or atleast 5.2
L1654[17:31:11] <TYKUHN2> Or potentially adding a function module() end
L1655[17:37:59] <TYKUHN2> 1 yr = 60 * 60 * 24 * 366 if default is seconds
L1656[17:40:23] ⇦ Quits: Vexatos (~Vexatos@p200300556E5AFE0638FE6DCF36451588.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) (Quit: I guess I have to go now. Bye ✔)
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L1662[18:11:19] <TYKUHN2> Compiling of cgi.lua expanded it by 1.1KB
L1663[18:12:04] <TYKUHN2> Stripping debug information produces equilvalent size
L1664[18:12:14] <TYKUHN2> Well... one byte smaller.
L1665[18:17:04] <TYKUHN2> Meanwhile the same process expands config.lua by atleast 30 bytes
L1666[18:18:28] <TYKUHN2> Also compress cbi.lua by about 4kB. Very qerid
L1667[18:18:31] <TYKUHN2> wierd*
L1668[18:31:40] ⇨ Joins: Hobbyboy (Hobbyboy@hobbyboy.co.uk)
L1669[18:44:58] <TYKUHN2> } expected to close {
L1670[18:45:28] <TYKUHN2> ```local intern = {
L1671[18:45:28] <TYKUHN2> "somestring" = true,
L1672[18:45:29] <TYKUHN2> "string2" = true,
L1673[18:45:29] <TYKUHN2> "string" = true
L1674[18:45:29] <TYKUHN2> }
L1675[18:45:29] <TYKUHN2> ```
L1676[18:45:35] <TYKUHN2> Around "somestring"
L1677[18:49:57] <TYKUHN2> Oh I see. String arn't keys. Which is really odd because I'm trying to use a reserved keyword
L1678[18:51:56] ⇦ Quits: Hyst (cxsss1@cpe-124-189-28-144.bkzh1.cht.bigpond.net.au) (Ping timeout: 194 seconds)
L1679[19:03:02] *** cbcercas|AFK is now known as cbcercas
L1680[19:07:56] <TYKUHN2> Someone mentioned lua bytecode isn't checked for errors right?
L1681[19:08:34] <TYKUHN2> Maybe it's the compiler but I found sources to the contrary
L1682[19:11:51] ⇦ Quits: TangentDelta (~tangentde@c-68-37-224-83.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) (Quit: leaving)
L1683[19:18:09] <SolraBizna> Lua bytecode isn't checked for errors in the bytecode encoding.
L1684[19:18:16] <SolraBizna> At least, not very thoroughly.
L1685[19:18:28] <SolraBizna> Other errors are checked or not checked as is normal for the runtime.
L1686[19:23:38] ⇨ Joins: Hyst (cxsss1@CPE-124-189-28-144.bkzh1.cht.bigpond.net.au)
L1687[19:35:47] ⇨ Joins: Brycey92 (~Brycey92@bmb5663-29-251.rh.psu.edu)
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L1689[19:39:18] <TYKUHN2> There's a flag for the compiler (more intensive flag was removed more recently) that scans (by default) luac.out and checks for parsing errors
L1690[19:40:32] <TYKUHN2> Hmm
L1691[19:40:48] <TYKUHN2> To test a device that only accepts limited connections from a given ip...
L1692[19:41:02] <TYKUHN2> I obviously route 192.168.2.0/24 to localhost
L1693[19:41:10] <TYKUHN2> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
L1694[19:42:20] <TYKUHN2> I think now I *might* be able to bind to any address in that range and feasibly get data back... maybe
L1695[19:44:26] <TYKUHN2> "Can't assign" not surprised
L1696[19:50:03] <TYKUHN2> I just heard from the news that the Republican Party in US is going nuclear
L1697[19:53:38] <Kodos> TYKUHN, you were missing ["somestring'
L1698[19:53:44] <Kodos> TYKUHN, you were missing ["somestring"] = true, etc
L1699[19:53:49] <Kodos> I believe
L1700[19:53:53] <TYKUHN2> I've fixed it by now
L1701[19:53:57] <Kodos> Indeed
L1702[19:54:00] <Kodos> I'm just waking upt hough
L1703[19:54:03] <Kodos> Now going to mom's
L1704[19:54:05] <Kodos> back soontm
L1705[19:55:10] <TYKUHN2> Anyone know anything about windows networking?
L1706[19:55:23] <TYKUHN2> Like... IDK... how to connect as a random IP address?
L1707[19:55:37] <TYKUHN2> I have already rerouted all connections on a particular subnet to this computer.
L1708[21:21:21] ⇨ Joins: sward (webchat@host86-185-27-148.range86-185.btcentralplus.com)
L1709[21:21:55] <sward> Hey
L1710[21:23:28] <TYKUHN2> Holy christ I forgot what TayZonday sounded like
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L1712[21:44:25] ⇨ Joins: techno156 (~techno156@203.114.73.135)
L1713[22:11:06] *** cbcercas is now known as cbcercas|AFK
L1714[22:17:24] <TYKUHN2> This is awkward
L1715[22:23:19] ⇨ Joins: Nachtara (~Nachiebre@173-22-110-5.client.mchsi.com)
L1716[22:30:17] *** medsouz is now known as medsouz|offline
L1717[22:36:56] <TYKUHN2> Well I finished
L1718[22:37:02] <TYKUHN2> But I'm not satisfied
L1719[22:37:30] <TYKUHN2> I'm going to go modify how hooking works
L1720[22:41:08] <TYKUHN2> Going to try line by line commenting
L1721[22:47:31] <TYKUHN2> Litterally every line is commented ?
L1722[22:56:16] <TYKUHN2> Building a highly inclusive test suite
L1723[23:02:48] ⇦ Quits: Wiiplay123 (~kvirc@adsl-72-154-27-119.bna.bellsouth.net) (Quit: KVIrc 4.9.2 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/)
L1724[23:21:39] <TYKUHN2> Got some more work, smoothing out hooking, but this should be CLOSE
L1725[23:42:17] ⇨ Joins: Crazylemon (~Crazylemo@207.62.170.220)
L1726[23:43:28] <payonel> xarses: o/
L1727[23:43:47] <xarses> payonel: ...
L1728[23:44:13] <payonel> openos 1.6: ~26k free on boot (t1 ram)
L1729[23:44:18] <payonel> during dev to 1.6.1, 23k
L1730[23:44:33] <payonel> now 1.6.1-dev is 31.3k free
L1731[23:44:36] <payonel> o_O
L1732[23:45:01] ⇦ Quits: LottieTheVixen (Charlotte@Allons-y.PanicBNC.ninja) (Ping timeout: 189 seconds)
L1733[23:45:23] <payonel> but on a failure: i tried to rewrite the fs lib and reverted like 3 times
L1734[23:45:35] <payonel> i can make it far more efficient, but it only increases the bytecode cost
L1735[23:45:39] <payonel> :(
L1736[23:45:50] <payonel> so, for memory's sake, i'm giving up on that front
L1737[23:46:57] <payonel> anyways, i was just excited about the 31.3k free just now. wanted to share
L1738[23:55:40] ⇦ Quits: Cervator (~Thunderbi@2601:4c1:4000:1050:c51:4315:f0fc:79ca) (Quit: Cervator)
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