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L1[00:33:21] <Wired2coffee> In depth three
of the crafting process, one of the steps requires 496
diamonds
L2[01:43:10] <Wired2coffee> Anyone
there?
L3[01:50:48] <Wired2coffee>
oc.cil.li/index.php?app=core&module=attach§ion=attach&attach_id=1
L4[04:01:38] ***
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther is now known as
JoshTheEnder
L5[04:08:47] ⇨
Joins: DaKaTotal
(webchat@ppp-88-217-90-248.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
L6[04:11:35] ⇨
Joins: Wobbo
(~Wobbo@5ED58A7C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl)
L7[04:11:58] <Wobbo> Good morning
L8[04:13:53] <Wired2coffee> I think _G might
be brokun
L9[04:14:06] <Wobbo> try _ENV
L10[04:14:11] <Wired2coffee> anywho,
goodmorning
L11[04:14:45] <Wobbo> How are you?
L12[04:14:51] <Wired2coffee> _ENV
worked
L13[04:14:57] <Wired2coffee> that's
weird
L14[04:15:05] <Wired2coffee> Great, how are
you?
L15[04:15:18] <Wobbo> I fine, still kinda
sleepy though
L16[04:18:24] <Wired2coffee> attempt to
index glabal 'robot' (a nil value)
L17[04:18:28] *** Bot
is now known as Biohazard
L18[04:18:35] <Wired2coffee> and yes, it os
a robot
L19[04:18:53] <Wobbo> local robot = require
"robot"
L20[04:19:07] <DaKaTotal> Hi guys and good
morning! We have prepared a new video tutorial for OpenComputers.
This time it is all about the file system.
L23[04:20:25] <Wired2coffee> I don't
suppose you know anything about this robot problem, DaKaTotal
?
L24[04:20:49] <Wobbo> Wired2coffe: local
robot = require "robot"
L25[04:22:23] <Wired2coffee> That
worked
L26[04:22:54] <Wobbo> All non standard
modules have to be explicitly required
L28[04:23:30] <Wired2coffee> hope it helps
at least one of you
L29[04:24:30] <Wired2coffee> There's an rtf
of the breakdown, all alphabetized
L30[04:33:41] <Wired2coffee> Huh, no matter
what I do the robot's level remains at 0, what am I doing wrong
this timeL
L31[04:34:36] <Lathanael> i guess OC hasn't
updated to the new StargaeTech2 api?
L32[04:34:41] <Wobbo> No clue. I don't know
how the robots levels work
L33[04:39:29] <Wired2coffee> DaKaTotal: Can
we get a tutorial on turtle levels next?
L35[04:49:55] <Wired2coffee> Did you see my
breakdown of the server thing Wobbo?
L36[04:50:18] <Wobbo> Yes, but I din't look
at the exact values yet
L37[04:50:42] <Wobbo> That amount of
diamond O_o
L38[04:50:58] <Wired2coffee> 552 Diamonds
is the big one
L39[04:51:39] <Wobbo> The rest is not
really that much, it is a lot, but look at the stuff it will
bring
L40[04:52:12] <Wobbo> Maybe the redstone is
a little bit much, but the rest is pretty reasonable
L41[04:52:31] <Wired2coffee> I can't really
think of a reason that you'd need that much computer anyway
L42[04:54:01] <Wired2coffee> 64MB of HDDs,
16MB RAM, and 256 components
L43[04:54:08] <Wobbo> I can think of some
reasons, but most require data processing, and I don't know why you
would want to do that in OC :P
L44[04:54:42] <Wired2coffee> Maybe database
of item storage?
L45[04:55:11] <Wired2coffee> With an array
of vanilla chests?
L46[04:55:50] <Wobbo> You could save that
to a file, I don't take tables would be that large that you can't
keep them loaded in memory
L47[05:02:07] <Wired2coffee> Is there any
way to dump ram and resume sater?
L48[05:02:14] <Wired2coffee> later?*
L49[05:02:39] <Wobbo> You can serialise
tables
L50[05:05:49] <Wired2coffee> I can cereal!
Hooray!
L51[05:06:17] <Wobbo> You can't serialise
functions or coroutines however
L52[05:06:44] <Wired2coffee> So no
accessing RAM? qq
L53[05:12:10] <Stary2001> i thought you
could serialise coroutines?
L54[05:12:39] <Wobbo> Oh, I maybe you
can.
L55[05:15:52] <Wired2coffee> not quite what
I had in mind but I can work with it
L56[05:16:30] <Wobbo> Just make sure that
you recreate the environment your data has to liv win each time,
and you should be good to go
L57[05:17:36] <Wired2coffee> RAM dumps are
just a lazy mans solution
L58[05:17:44] <Wired2coffee> of which I
am
L59[05:18:20] <Wobbo> You just need
serialise and unserialise code
L60[05:19:37] <Wired2coffee> And maybe a
few integers to show when you stopped the code
L61[05:20:19] <Wobbo> Lua 5.2 doesn't have
a goto, so I would be kinda clunky though
L62[05:20:26] <Wobbo> But you can indeed
add that as well
L63[05:20:58] <Wobbo> I might include some
kind of serialisation for COLua… So you can save the variables in
an Object. Maybe later
L64[05:22:29] <Wired2coffee> maybe I can
make a persistent program loader or something
L65[05:22:48] <Wobbo> What kind of data do
you want to serialise?
L66[05:22:49] ***
JoshTheEnder is now known as
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther
L67[05:23:49] <Wired2coffee> Like I want to
stop/resume a program flawlessy
L68[05:24:13] <Wobbo> Just don't shutdown
the computer :P
L69[05:24:20] <Wired2coffee> Not pause,
stop
L70[05:24:40] <Wobbo> Just really stop the
program? Why?
L71[05:24:58] <Wobbo> Wouldn't it be easier
to daemonize your process?
L72[05:25:39] <Wired2coffee> Nah, we gotta
do this as complicated as possible
L73[05:25:41] ***
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther is now known as
JoshTheEnder
L74[05:26:16] ***
JoshTheEnder is now known as
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther
L75[05:26:32] <Wobbo> For the sake of doing
it complicated? :P
L76[05:26:40] ***
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther is now known as
JoshTheEnder
L77[05:26:44] <Wired2coffee> Of course!
:D
L78[05:27:15] <Wired2coffee> Having an
anyeurism or something, JoshTheEnder?
L79[05:27:16] ***
JoshTheEnder is now known as
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther
L80[05:28:00] <Wired2coffee> I shall assume
yes
L81[05:29:35] <Wired2coffee> I'm playing an
OC/BC only SSP run, it's pretty fun
L82[05:29:50] <Wired2coffee> Can't wait til
I get a robot
L83[05:30:44] <Wobbo> Well, if I were you,
just keep all your variables in one large table, serialise that
table on shutdown, and load it on startup of your program
L84[05:31:14] ***
prassel|off is now known as prasselpikachu
L85[05:31:46] <Wired2coffee> I don't really
need it, I was kinda curious if there was something like a RAM dump
in Lua
L86[05:31:57] <Wired2coffee> apparently
not
L87[05:32:14] <Wobbo> There is, but it is
disabled by default and should therefore not be used
L88[05:32:21] <Wobbo> Because of
portibility
L89[05:33:56] <Wobbo> At least, I believe
there is something like RAM dumping
L90[05:39:22] <Wobbo> Anybody here familiar
with Objective-C or Objective-C++?
L91[05:39:50] ***
prasselpikachu is now known as prassel|off
L92[05:39:52] <DaKaTotal> @ Wired2coffee :
Yes, tutorial for robots is at work :-)
L93[05:40:06] <Wired2coffee> DaKaTotal:
Thank you!
L94[05:40:37] ⇦
Quits: DaKaTotal (webchat@ppp-88-217-90-248.dynamic.mnet-online.de)
()
L95[05:44:10] ***
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther is now known as
JoshTheEnder
L96[05:45:21] ***
LordFokas|off is now known as LordFokas
L97[05:45:25] ⇨
Joins: Sangar
(~Sangar@178-26-87-157-dynip.superkabel.de)
L98[05:45:26] zsh
sets mode: +o on Sangar
L99[05:46:16] <Wobbo> Goodafternoon
Sangar
L100[05:46:30] <Sangar> hi there!
L101[05:47:23] <Wobbo> Sangar, do you have
any experience with Objective-C?
L102[05:47:45] <Sangar> nah, and from what
i've seen of it i'm happy about it :P
L103[05:48:00] <Wobbo> Why not?
L104[05:48:29] <Sangar> the syntax is
giving me a headache just from looking at it :P
L105[05:49:17] <Wobbo> I had that to the
first time, but you get used to it really fast
L106[05:49:31] <Wobbo> And then it is
really nice
L107[05:49:47] <Wobbo> Anyway, never mind
then :P
L108[05:51:35] <Wired2coffee> Sangar, can
you give me an example of the kind of actions a robot would have to
pergorm in order to level?
L109[05:51:53] <Sangar> maybe, sure. but
it just seems unnecessarily... different :P
L110[05:51:58] <Wired2coffee>
perform*
L111[05:51:59] <Sangar> breaking and
placing blocks e.g.
L112[05:52:11] <Sangar> and attacking
entities
L113[05:52:45] <Wobbo> Sangar, it is based
of smalltalk, and is almost as old as C++, if Objective-C became
the standard, you would find C++ different :P
L114[05:53:03] <Wired2coffee> My liitle
robot here has been breaking blocks constantly, still at 0
L115[05:53:28] <Sangar> then maybe the
fact that it didn't become the standard is telling us something
here :D
L116[05:53:41] <Sangar> try using the
analyzer on it
L117[05:53:47] <Sangar> to see if it's
really at zero xp
L118[05:54:57] <Wired2coffee> Oh! I never
tried the analyzer
L119[05:55:26] <Wired2coffee> It's at .85.
What's the fastest way of leveling?
L120[05:56:48] <Wobbo> :P Maybe NEXT was
just underused. It is still barely supported outside of OS X,
although your compiler can probably compile it
L121[05:58:11] <Sangar> the fastest way?
digging up stuff i'd imagine, since that also generates a bit of
exhaustion which is also converted to xp.
L122[05:59:31] <Wired2coffee> Thanks
again!
L123[06:02:04] <Sangar> np. btw, saw your
post on the forum - i got confused for a second, until i realized
those were nuggets :P maybe convert those to ingots?
L124[06:02:43] <Wired2coffee> Anything
that used fractions I decided not to
L125[06:02:46] <Wobbo> Basically, just
divide by nine :P
L126[06:04:21] <Sangar> i see. well, you
could write it as 123.45 ingots, heh.
L127[06:04:43] <Wobbo> That would be even
more confusing :P
L128[06:04:48] <Wobbo> But that amount of
diamonds!
L129[06:04:52] <Sangar> probably
L130[06:05:14] <Wired2coffee> It took me
like an hour and a half to do it
L131[06:05:21] <Sangar> wow
L132[06:05:34] <Wired2coffee> Even
alphabetized it
L133[06:06:26] <Sangar> diamonds: yeah.
but keep in mind this is really totally maxed out. if it turns out
to be totally insane i'll have to nerf the number of diamonds it
takes to craft a tier3 chip.
L134[06:06:49] <Wired2coffee> Just got a
new keyboard and learning dvorak, so I figured I'd do something
productive
L135[06:07:22] <Wired2coffee> And Sangar,
I like the idea of the essentially endlessly upgradable item
L136[06:07:29] <Sangar> i went the lazy
route to do a rough validation of the numbers after i realized i
forgot to take out the functionality i used for adjusting the
recipes :P (keep alt pressed while a tooltip shows)
L137[06:08:09] <Sangar> i tried learning
colemak for a while, but i'm just too used to my freeform typing
style, i couldn't keep it up :P
L138[06:08:41] <Wired2coffee> Didnt like
colemak, learning dv
L139[06:09:31] <Wired2coffee> Anywho, I
vote keeping the recipes
L140[06:09:45] <Wired2coffee> I think
these new ones are fair
L141[06:10:00] <Sangar> glad to hear that
:)
L142[06:11:07] <Wired2coffee> I like the
idea of kind of installing just enough of one resource to fulfill
its intended function
L143[06:11:42] <Wobbo> Normal lua # on a
table returns the length of the longest sequence right?
L144[06:12:04] <Stary2001> Wobbo,
undefined for tables with gaps
L145[06:12:29] <Wired2coffee> Nah, returns
number of stuffs in the table
L146[06:13:03] <Sangar> "the longest
sequence"? make it "the sequence starting at 1" and
i think you're right. not 100% sure, though.
L147[06:13:33] <Wired2coffee> OH read that
wrong
L148[06:13:41] <Sangar> (or was starting
at 1 part of the definition of sequence in the context of
lua?)
L149[06:14:49] <Wired2coffee> Dow much
experience do you need for a max level robot?
L150[06:14:58] <Wobbo> Starting at one is
I believe part of the definition
L151[06:15:35] <Sangar> ok
L152[06:15:41] <Sangar> xp: a *lot*
:P
L153[06:16:59] <Wired2coffee> Is it kind
of intended that you never do hit the cap? :P
L154[06:17:43] <Wobbo> If you would have a
box for a table, would you expect that the methods would show up
when you pairs over it?
L155[06:18:36] <Sangar> if you use them to
quarry a lot you just might hit it :D but it is intended to be slow
going, since it basically happens automatically, after all.
L156[06:19:08] <Wired2coffee> That
sentence sounds hilarious when you take it out of context
L157[06:19:49] <Sangar> heh
L158[06:20:00] <Sangar> talking oo?
L159[06:20:05] <Sangar> dunno.
probably.
L160[06:20:25] <Wobbo> Yeah OOP, I am
create Table, to replace table in OOP contexts
L161[06:20:37] <Wobbo> And as an example
on how to use COLua
L162[06:20:53] <Wobbo> I want to create
boxes for all the natives
L163[06:20:56] <Wired2coffee> Is there a
reason lua prog doesnt print the returns like usual?
L164[06:21:09] <Wobbo> Because lua
doesn't
L165[06:22:25] <Wobbo> Sangar, I don't
think that is expect behaviour that when you pairs over a table,
you get unpack and sort and the like
L166[06:23:02] <Sangar> ah
L167[06:23:06] <Sangar> no, that
isn't
L168[06:23:27] <Sangar> Wired2coffee: what
do you mean?
L169[06:26:18] <Wired2coffee> I have to
type print(robot.level()) instead of robot.level() because lua isnt
printing the returns
L170[06:26:29] <Sangar> oh, the
interpreter?
L171[06:26:37] <Wired2coffee> its not that
big of a deal
L172[06:26:50] <Sangar> read the message
that is displayed when you start it :P
L174[06:27:57] <Wired2coffee> Ah, see,
this is why I should read things
L175[06:28:58] <Wired2coffee> Wouldnt that
take like a solid 3 days or so? o_o
L176[06:29:50] <Wobbo>
=robot.level()
L177[06:30:18] <Sangar> a single robot
would roughly have to dig up a 400x400x60 area
L178[06:30:31] <Sangar> i think 3 days
might be a little optimistic
L179[06:30:53] <Wired2coffee> Well what if
it hoest move?
L180[06:30:54] <Sangar> it's meant as a
long term thing, if you couldn't tell :D
L181[06:31:01] <Wired2coffee>
doesn't*
L182[06:31:17] <Sangar> if it just sits
there it doesn't get any xp.
L183[06:31:33] <Wired2coffee> Nah, still
breaks stuff
L184[06:31:34] <Sangar> you could have it
just place and break the same block while sitting there
>_>
L185[06:31:55] <Wired2coffee> That's what
I've been doing :P
L186[06:32:07] <Sangar> the poor robot
:/
L187[06:32:34] <Wired2coffee> does it get
more xp from placing or breaking?
L188[06:32:39] <Wobbo> Its not sad for the
robot
L189[06:32:45] <Wobbo> It doesn't know
what it is doing
L190[06:32:59] <Wobbo> The only thing the
robot understands is Lua bytecode.
L191[06:33:06] <Sangar> breaking, since
that additionally gives it 0.025 xp for the 'exhaustion'
L192[06:33:21] <Wobbo> Or Java, or C. I
dunno, depends on the implementation.
L193[06:33:31] <Sangar> :P
L194[06:33:44] <Wired2coffee> So could I
have to robots and dave one sit there and place blocks? lol
L195[06:33:51] <Wired2coffee> two*
L196[06:34:09] <Wobbo> Just as that Searle
in the Room doesn't understand Chinese, but he does understand
English :P
L197[06:34:29] <Sangar> most inefficient
block transportation system ever, but you could and they'd get xp
for it, yes ^^
L198[06:34:55] <Wobbo> place, remove, move
on to front, repeat :P
L199[06:35:00] <Wobbo> *one
L200[06:35:20] <Wired2coffee> nah, he,s
not even mowing
L201[06:35:30] <Wired2coffee> moving*
>_>
L202[06:35:48] <Wired2coffee> The typos
are getting worse!
L203[06:35:58] <Wobbo> You could have him
mow too, and then let him place bonemeal all over the place
:P
L204[06:38:10] <Wired2coffee> The real
question is: How many eff V unb III picks til lvl 30
L205[06:39:15] <Sangar> quite a few, i'd
imagine :P though the higher the robot level, the slower they will
be to break.
L206[06:39:34] <Wobbo> Alright, important
question, should Table:concat return a String or a string?
L207[06:40:03] <Sangar> String seems more
logical to me
L208[06:40:58] <Wobbo> That is what I
thought as well
L209[06:41:35] <Wired2coffee> at 2 blocks
per second, wolframalpha says 55 days
L210[06:41:48] <Wired2coffee> not MC
days
L211[06:41:58] <Wobbo> XD
L212[06:42:24] <Wobbo> Well, time to go
and play on a server that is constantly on :P
L213[06:42:37] <Wired2coffee> Mine?
L214[06:43:08] <Wired2coffee> *crosses
fingers*
L215[06:43:16] <Wobbo> XD
L216[06:43:46] <Wired2coffee> We allow
chunkloading...
L217[06:44:10] <Wired2coffee> Why'd I say
we? I meant I
L218[06:44:13] <Sangar> since they get
faster i'd imagine it'll be a little less than that. someone will
have to try this out to let me know if the xp per action has to be
increased a bit :P
L219[06:44:53] <Wobbo> What do the robot
levels actually do?
L220[06:45:03] <Wired2coffee> Im thinking
you/me/someone elseshould think of different mechanics for
leveling
L221[06:46:52] <Sangar> higher level =
tools break slower and are faster, and yes, additional mechanics
could be interesting. maybe some interaction with liquidxp? (where
one player xp would be worth more than a robot xp, ofc)
L222[06:47:45] <Wobbo> So, basically, if a
robot mines a lot, he gets better at it. That is sort of weird when
you think about it…
L223[06:48:02] <Wired2coffee> Not sure how
I feel about needing to install another mod just to level my
robot
L224[06:48:19] <Sangar> well you don't
have to :P
L225[06:49:01] <Sangar> and it was just an
idea anyway. even if it were to be implemented it'd probably not be
in the mod itself, but as an addon or so.
L226[06:49:09] ***
JoshTheEnder is now known as
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther
L227[06:49:40] <Sangar> hmm, i'll probably
throw in the 0.01 'exhaustion' for moving, can't remember why i
didn't yet (hint: i probably forgot)
L228[06:49:45] <Wired2coffee> Maybe
certain blocks give more exp than others? (if not world genned then
itd just give default amount)
L229[06:50:16] <Wobbo> Ores should give
more exp, they also give exp to players
L230[06:50:25] <Sangar> i actually though
blocks that are harder to break generate more exhaustion (and thus
more xp), but turns out i was wrong, meh
L231[06:51:05] <Sangar> xp drops from ores
are a very good point. will have to figure out how to determine
that.
L232[06:52:52] <Wired2coffee> Maybe an
unobtanium ore that you can find in the nether that you can forge
to upgrade your robot? lol
L233[06:55:25] <Wired2coffee> Fish oil
lubricant that makes it slightly faster for a small period?
L234[06:56:14] <Sangar> a learning upgrade
that increases xp gain?
L235[06:56:29] <Wired2coffee> I like that
one
L236[06:56:34] <Wobbo> So do I
L237[06:57:51] <Sangar> \o/ well, i'll add
it to the list, then :P
L238[06:58:15] <Wired2coffee> Maybe like
an enchanting table, a high tier CPU, and some other junk for the
pecipe
L239[06:58:18] ***
JoshTheEnder|BackInTheEther is now known as
JoshTheEnder
L240[06:58:19] <Sangar> hrm. maybe cpu
time could also generate xp?
L241[06:58:42] <Wired2coffee> nah, sounds
bad for servers
L242[06:58:45] <Sangar> recycling old
stuff to upgrade your robot?
L243[06:58:49] <Sangar> ah, good
point.
L244[06:58:50] ***
alekso56_off is now known as alekso56
L245[06:59:41] <Wired2coffee> Well the
prablem is, leveling and upgrading are two different things
L246[06:59:51] <Wired2coffee> Can we have
both?
L247[07:00:02] <Sangar> upgrade as in in
more ram in the robot?
L248[07:01:53] <Wired2coffee> RAM would be
nice
L249[07:01:53] <Wired2coffee> Not sure how
hard this would be, but maybe you could let it communicate with a
server and "share" RAM/disk space
L250[07:01:59] <Sangar> ram would be the
only reasonable thing to actually upgrade i think. cpu won't do
much for the robot, since it can't connect to external components
anyway. and having built-in cards is not something i'd like to
do.
L251[07:02:12] <Sangar> give it a wireless
network card :P
L252[07:02:20] <Wired2coffee> or you could
install it on the turtle, but at the price of weighing it
down
L253[07:02:29] <Wired2coffee> robot*
L254[07:02:38] <Wired2coffee> I keep
derping
L255[07:02:53] <Sangar> you don't know how
long i kept calling them turtles in my head...
L256[07:03:06] <Wired2coffee> I still
am
L257[07:03:36] <Wired2coffee> Cloud
computing robot? lol
L258[07:04:27] <Wobbo> Of course, that is
why we have servers right? :P
L259[07:04:48] <Wired2coffee> Of
course!
L260[07:05:56] <Wired2coffee> I think
physical on-board upgrades should slow it down slightly
L261[07:06:35] <Wired2coffee> like RAM/HDD
upgrades
L262[07:06:47] <Kenny|AFK> Sangar, you
know the OpenComputers.net is now a domain open to get,
tight?
L263[07:06:55] <Kenny|AFK> right*
L264[07:07:01] <Wired2coffee> but cloud
computed ones wouldnt
L265[07:07:17] <Sangar> well, then having
2k cobblestone in the inventory should also slow them down, no?
:P
L266[07:07:34] <Wired2coffee> Yes
L267[07:07:36] <Sangar> Kenny: no idea,
ask Ir7_o
L268[07:07:58] <Kenny|AFK> i just went to
the site link and GHoDaddy has it open for anyone to get
L269[07:08:48] <Sangar> the thing is,
theres no such thing as "weight" in mc, the player
doesn't slow down, either, from having a full inventory after
all
L270[07:09:42] <Wired2coffee> I was just
thinking of incentives to use the cloud computing bit
L271[07:11:15] <Sangar> well, if you want
cloud computing you could do that with a wireless network card,
though, right? run the actual mining program on a server and just
have it send move / dig / ... commands to the robot.
L272[07:12:07] <Wired2coffee> Hmm, I guess
you could, but most players wont think of that
L273[07:12:20] <Wired2coffee> Dungeon
disks? lol
L274[07:13:18] <Lathanael> cloud
computeing
L275[07:13:21] <Lathanael> neat idea
L276[07:13:58] <Wired2coffee> Also, is the
range spherical, rectangular, or circu?lar
L277[07:14:14] <Sangar> of the wireless
network? spherical
L278[07:14:33] <Wired2coffee> HowCool
^.^
L279[07:15:17] <Wired2coffee> How many
combustion engines do I need for the 400 radius? o_o
L280[07:15:37] <Wobbo> 400
L281[07:15:50] <Wired2coffee> well
then.
L282[07:15:51] <Sangar> i had two ic2
generators running with 2 servers @ 400
L283[07:16:15] <Wired2coffee> Is it
exponential or linear?
L284[07:16:20] <Sangar> linear
L285[07:16:47] <Sangar> easier to
implement and work with
L286[07:16:54] <Wired2coffee> I managed to
keep it at 40 with 1 combustion engine
L287[07:17:09] <Wired2coffee> so itd
probably take ten
L288[07:17:16] <Wired2coffee> That's not
THAT bad
L289[07:19:07] <Wobbo> I keep writing
paris instead of pairs -_-
L290[07:19:58] <Wired2coffee> Do you think
it'd be possible to get some in-mod power, so you're not depending
on other mods?
L291[07:20:52] <Sangar> not sure.
maybe.
L292[07:21:44] <Wired2coffee> oh im
testing the leveling thing on my server
L293[07:21:58] <Wired2coffee> already at
1k
L294[07:24:50] <Michiyo> Ok, so I've had
an issue on both SP and MP, with computers randomly powering off,
even with a TE Creative Energy cell powering them, they just
randomly power off. So I switched the config to no power, and
sometimes I still get random power offs.
L295[07:25:33] <Sangar> what does the
analyzer say in that case?
L296[07:26:07] <Michiyo> Hmm... I've not
even tried it.. Lemme reproduce and I'll find out. Might be awhile
though just got home from work, and need sleep :p
L297[07:26:15] <Sangar> also, could you
check if there's anything in the logs?
L298[07:26:21] <Michiyo> sure thing
L299[07:26:35] <Sangar> :)
L300[07:28:53] <Wired2coffee> I'm getting
100exp / 6-7 mins
L301[07:30:10] <Wired2coffee> Which should
be around 33 days nonstop to 30
L302[07:33:07] <Sangar> hmm, that might be
a little too long, not sure. thoughts?
L303[07:33:57] <Wired2coffee> 33 IRL days,
and for people without chunkloaders...
L304[07:34:08] <Wired2coffee> It's waaay
too long
L305[07:35:58] <Sangar> down to 10? or
even less?
L306[07:36:44] <Wired2coffee> The problem
is mine is a best possible scenario EXP machine
L307[07:37:18] <Wired2coffee> the quarry
would be much slower
L308[07:38:03] <Sangar> could you rephrase
that? not sure what you mean
L309[07:39:39] <Wired2coffee> Gaining exp
using the robot would go much slower than a program designed to
gain xp
L310[07:40:04] <Sangar> ah. yeah well, but
in that time the robot wouldn't do anything useful.
L311[07:40:10] <Sangar> just consume
energy
L312[07:40:21] <Sangar> and break
tools
L313[07:40:43] <Wired2coffee> it could
take like 80 days of quarrying to max out the level
L314[07:41:07] <Wired2coffee> which is
kinda ridiculous
L315[07:42:06] <Sangar> yeah
L316[07:42:51] <Wired2coffee> I wanna say
48 hours is a good number
L317[07:42:57] <Sangar> but to be fair,
the point of quarrying isnt to level, but to quarry. the xp thing
was meant more as a nice side effect.
L318[07:43:14] <Sangar> but as it stands i
agree it takes too long
L319[07:43:16] <Wired2coffee> Hmm,
yeah
L320[07:44:04] <Wired2coffee> I get what
you mean, but that might be some peoples goal
L321[07:44:39] ***
LordFokas is now known as LordFokas|afk
L322[07:44:40] <Wired2coffee> And 30 days
minimum is...
L323[07:44:54] <Sangar> way too much,
yes
L324[07:45:21] <Wired2coffee> Could you
make the leveling linear, but steeper?
L325[07:46:07] <Wired2coffee> Maybe 100k
== level 30?
L326[07:47:30] <Wired2coffee> Oh wait I
added a 0
L327[07:47:40] <Wired2coffee> 3.3
days
L328[07:47:44] <Wired2coffee> LOL
L329[07:48:08] <Sangar> ah, with the
current settings?
L330[07:48:13] <Wired2coffee> Yeah
L331[07:48:25] <Sangar> oh, well then
:P
L332[07:48:45] <Wired2coffee> Long enough
to be onnying, short enough to be plausible
L333[07:48:53] <Wired2coffee>
annying*
L334[07:49:07] <Wired2coffee> bah
L335[07:49:37] <Wired2coffee> Relearning
typing is hard
L336[07:51:24] <Sangar> :)
L337[07:51:41] <Wired2coffee> But yeah,
the "leveling the robot by genuine use" is still hard.
The XP ores should fix that though
L338[07:52:26] <Sangar> yes.
hopefully.
L339[07:53:16] <Sangar> hrm, actually, are
you sure about the numbers?
L340[07:53:39] <Sangar> when i assume
0.075 xp per broken block and ~3 per second i get 37 days
L341[07:54:01] <Wired2coffee> oh, I didnt
add a 0
L342[07:54:05] ***
Kenny|AFK is now known as Kenny
L343[07:54:08] <Wired2coffee> Im
derping
L344[07:54:12] <Sangar> :P
L345[07:54:28] <Wired2coffee> Sorry, been
up for 30 or so haurs
L346[07:54:43] <Sangar> haha
L347[07:55:14] <Sangar> all right then...
let's tweak the number a bit...
L348[07:55:49] <Wired2coffee> Anywho, I
think linear 50k max would be good
L349[07:56:15] <Sangar> i like exponential
for xp, but i might flatten it a bit
L350[07:56:55] <Wired2coffee> Doest really
matter, its the max that counts, right? :P
L351[07:57:08] <Sangar> mostly :P
L352[07:57:41] <Wired2coffee> assuming 1k
an hour
L353[07:58:00] <Wired2coffee> in prime
conditions
L354[08:00:58] <Wobbo> Sangar, make it
sigmoidial :P
L355[08:01:30] <Sangar> i think i'll
adjust the multiplier to 8 and the exponent down to 2, that gives a
flatter curve and max xp 57k, which would take 2.4 days using your
1k/h estimate and 3 days using my over ~3 blocks / sec
estimate.
L356[08:02:17] <Sangar> Wobbo: I'd rather
not :P
L357[08:03:41] <Wired2coffee> You could
use one of the pokemon leveling equations ^.^
L358[08:05:38] <Sangar> wrong mod :P
L359[08:06:57] <Wobbo> But sigmoids are
fun :P You could approach booleanes with sigmoids
L360[08:11:58] <Sangar> hmm, a leveling
system using booleans? not max level -> max level? :D
L361[08:12:29] <Wobbo> You are either max
level, or level one
L362[08:13:02] <Wobbo> It does suit a
computer mod
L363[08:26:40] <Sangar> how should ore xp
be scaled? unscaled one ore xp'd give the the same robot xp as
breaking 13 blocks would, which seems a little... little. e.g. coal
(2xp) would be equivalent to 26 blocks, redstone (5xp) to 66.
L364[08:27:03] <Wobbo> Sigmoidial
:P]
L365[08:27:19] <Sangar> :P
L366[08:27:39] <Sangar> afk for a
bit
L367[08:29:04] ***
AngieBLD|Off is now known as AngieBLD
L368[08:33:29] <Kenny> ok. How dol you
make a pull request on GHitHub?
L369[08:33:33] <Kenny> do*
L371[08:36:52] <Wired2coffee> Is there an
easy way of having two servers in a rack communicate?
L372[08:37:05] <Wobbo> Network cards
L373[08:37:55] <Kenny> I don't have a fork
of this mod. I want to submit a request for them to QUIT
over-writing the UE config
L374[08:39:05] <Wobbo> Then you have to
create a new issue on the issue tracker
L375[08:41:22] <Kenny> Wobbo, if i didn'[t
know how to make a pull request then what makes you think i know
how to use an issue tracker
L376[08:42:22] <Wobbo> Go to the github
repo, on the right side there is a menu, one of the buttons is
called issue and the icon is a ! in a circle
L377[08:42:29] <Wobbo> That is where the
issue tracker is
L378[08:42:40] <Wobbo> Then there is a
green button that says new issue
L379[08:42:41] <Wired2coffee> What is the
range of a normal computer vith a wireless card?
L380[08:43:00] <Wobbo> All the attached
components, so far as I know
L381[08:43:09] <Kenny> if it hasn't
changed, Wired, 400
L382[08:43:17] <Kenny> it's a config
setting
L383[08:46:02] <Sangar> and i'm back.
default max range is 400, yes. you can set the actually used signal
strength to a lower value via the network card's api if you need
less range to conserve energy, though (see wiki).
L384[08:47:39] <Wobbo> Alright, String now
even supports concatenation, so as soon as you did str = String
"Hello World!" once, using String is the same as string
:)
L385[08:47:57] <Kenny> what if we need to
cover a range of, say, 2000 blocks? would we have top put in a
repeater tower somewhere?
L386[08:48:33] <Kenny> Wobbo, do you mean
using str is the same as using String?
L387[08:49:30] <Wired2coffee> I would
assume se Kenny, but it takes a lot of power for a range of 400 on
a server
L388[08:49:32] <Wobbo> No, I mean with
COLua, I am trying to create classes that hold native values. So
instead of doing string.len(str) you do str:len()
L389[08:50:09] <Wobbo> And __pairs is
working for Table :)
L390[08:50:12] <Kenny> then using str is
the same as using String
L391[08:50:24] <Kenny> once it is
created
L392[08:50:36] <Wobbo> No, String is used
to create new strs
L393[08:50:43] <Sangar> to get further
you'd have to setup repeater stations yourself, yes.
L394[08:50:54] <Wobbo> local str = String
"Hello"
L395[08:50:59] <Kenny> Sangar: okey
dokey
L396[08:51:13] <Sangar> note that while
servers consume that power continuously, sending a wireless message
with a network card only consumes energy per sent message
L397[08:51:43] <Sangar> the wireless range
in servers is purely for the remote terminals
L398[08:51:51] <Sangar> *in server
racks
L399[08:52:03] <Kenny> ok then. time to
build a 'cell phone' system hehe
L400[08:52:14] <Wired2coffee> Any plans
for the range in the future?
L401[08:52:39] <Wired2coffee> to be used
for more than just that, I mean
L402[08:54:22] <Sangar> not really, but
i'm not against using it for something else, additionally,
either
L403[08:56:23] <Wired2coffee> Could we
have glasses that allow you to see where a wireless signal is
reaching?
L404[08:56:50] <Wired2coffee> Like, with
particle effects or something
L405[08:58:12] <Wired2coffee> Not really
all that necessary, might just make it easier to set up a system
like what Kenny is talking about
L406[08:58:38] <Sangar> interesting
idea
L407[08:59:00] <Wobbo> I would prefer a
device that would show signal strength
L408[08:59:15] <Sangar> yeah, i was just
trying to remember how those things are called :P
L409[08:59:51] <Sangar> spectrum
analyzer?
L410[09:00:13] <Wobbo> Sounds kinda
mystical, but I guess that could be the name yes
L411[09:01:02] <Wired2coffee> I would
think that that would be something that checks what frequencies are
being used
L413[09:02:19] <Sangar> but since all
wireless stuff uses the same "frequency" the presentation
would have to be a little different. maybe use the horizontal axis
based on the direction to the wlan card or something.
L414[09:02:28] <Wired2coffee> Maybe just
Signal Analyzer?
L415[09:02:50] <Sangar> yeah, i imagine
that would be more appropriate in this context
L416[09:04:02] <Sangar> anyway, i'll add
it to the 'things to think about' list
L417[09:10:43] <Sangar> back to ore xp for
a second: thinking of setting the multiplier to a default value of
4 for now, that'd make one block of redstone worth ~250 'normal'
blocks. hopefully makes normal use attractive enough for leveling
as opposed to just having a robot sit there in a while true do
robot.swing() robot.place() end loop. or does that sound like it'd
be too much?
L418[09:11:10] <Wobbo> Dunno, you have to
experience that yourself anyway
L419[09:11:43] <Wobbo> BTW, Sangar. Lets
say I have an robot with no energy, and a solar power upgrade. Will
the solar power upgrade work then?
L420[09:12:22] <Sangar> i *think* it
would.
L421[09:12:45] <Sangar> yep
L422[09:12:47] <Sangar> works
L423[09:13:50] <Wobbo> That is neat
L424[09:13:53] ***
SuPeRMiNoR2|Away is now known as SuPeRMiNoR2
L425[09:16:11] <Wobbo> Lets see, I got
Table, Number, String and want to start work on Coroutine, did I
miss one?
L426[09:17:11] <Sangar> Boolean?
L427[09:17:21] <Wired2coffee> The big
prblem with the ore XP is you have to check if its been
placed
L428[09:17:52] <Sangar> not really. i just
have to check if the axe has silktouch. if it hasn't there's no
xp.
L429[09:18:03] <Sangar> errr
L430[09:18:04] <Sangar> has
L431[09:18:06] <Wobbo> Technically, you
are right, but I don't think that adding Boolean would even
work.
L432[09:18:19] <Wobbo> Because True ~=
true
L433[09:18:55] <Wired2coffee> Maybe only
give it for redstone
L434[09:19:24] <Wired2coffee> and have it
be pretty big amount oy xp
L435[09:19:40] <Sangar> why?
L436[09:20:44] <Wobbo> why what?
L437[09:20:57] <Sangar> ah sorry, not you
:P you're right of course
L438[09:21:07] <Sangar> i was wondering
why only redstone should give ore xp
L439[09:22:00] <Wobbo> It was ambiguous
and since there was no reaction for a while, I just asked ;) I
already guessed you meant Wired2coffee
L440[09:23:15] <Wired2coffee> oh, because
it would "power up" the robot
L441[09:23:33] <Wired2coffee> just kinda
makes sense I guess
L442[09:24:19] ⇦
Quits: tofep (~tofep@d27-99-26-85.bla802.nsw.optusnet.com.au) (Read
error: Connection reset by peer)
L443[09:26:35] <Sangar> hmmm. but robots
gaining experience doesn't make all that much sense anyway (their
non-existent neural network improves?), so i think it'd be nice to
keep it more generic.
L444[09:26:57] <Sangar> must. resist.
blacklist/whitelist. the config is way to big already.
L445[09:27:04] <Sangar> *too
L446[09:27:16] <Wobbo> I'm going to create
a robot with a neural network :P
L447[09:27:32] <Wobbo> If I ever get to
it
L448[09:27:43] <Sangar> :)
L449[09:28:48] <Wobbo> I guess Coroutine
won't implement coroutine.wrap, since there is no Function
either
L450[09:30:48] <Wobbo> Then that should be
Coroutine
L451[09:30:50] <Wired2coffee> You could
make it so excess energy gives it xp
L452[09:31:23] <Wired2coffee> Like, so the
further ingame you were the easier itd be
L453[09:31:34] <Wobbo> Sangar, somebody
needs your help on the forums
L454[09:32:32] <Sangar> xp from energy?
that sounds way too easy :/
L455[09:34:39] <Wired2coffee> Im talking
LOADS
L456[09:38:18] <Sangar> just use that
energy to have them run in circles then :P (they'll get a tiny bit
xp from the 'walk' exhaustion per move with the next update,
too)
L457[09:38:37] <Wobbo> XD
L458[09:39:09] <Wobbo> Alright, pushed
Table, Number and Coroutine to github
L459[09:42:01] <Kenny> !flags Wobbo
+vV
L460[09:42:14] <Kenny> Wobbo, you need to
register your nick :)
L461[09:42:44] <Wired2coffee> I was
thunking of the "fast and expensive" route but uh
L462[09:43:18] <Sangar> overcharge?
heh
L463[09:43:55] <Sangar> i'll keep it on my
list, maybe in some form, sometime
L464[09:44:03] <Wired2coffee> Okay
L465[09:44:27] <Wired2coffee> I just spew
ideas, you don't have to do any of them
L466[09:45:02] <Sangar> i know, but it's
good to keep track of them, they might spark something else
entirely :) i appreciate it, really
L467[09:45:49] <Wobbo> Kenny, what do you
mean?
L468[09:46:13] <Kenny> if you don't have a
registered nick I can't set any flags on you
L469[09:46:21] <Wobbo> Ah
L470[09:47:11] <Kenny> do as i showed and
they will send a confirmation email. copy and paste what they place
in the edit box of the status window\
L471[09:47:25] <Kenny> they send
and*
L472[09:51:06] <Kenny> !flags Wobbo
+vV
L473[09:51:06] -ChanServ-
Kenny set flags
+Vv on
Wobbo.
L474[09:51:17] <Kenny> !voice Wobbo
L475[09:51:17]
zsh sets mode: +v on Wobbo
L476[09:52:07] <Kenny> Sangar, I just
promoted Wobbo since he is contributing so much code to the project
:)
L477[09:52:42] <Kenny> and helping in
other areas as well
L478[09:52:50] <Wired2coffee> Congrats
Wobbo!
L479[09:53:00] <Wobbo> Thanks
L480[09:53:08] <Sangar> :)
L481[09:53:40] <Kenny> he definitely
deserved it. he's done nothing but code for the past 4-5 days
:)
L482[09:53:45] <Sangar> aye
L483[09:54:14] <Wobbo> I had nothing
better to do the past 4-5 days :P
L484[09:54:21] ⇦
Quits: Lunatrius (~Lunatrius@cpe-46-164-39-216.dynamic.amis.net)
(Ping timeout: 186 seconds)
L485[09:54:42]
⇨ Joins: Lunatrius
(~Lunatrius@cpe-46-164-38-230.dynamic.amis.net)
L486[09:54:47] <Kenny> depending on your
age, i can think of a couple of better things to do :)
L487[09:54:49] <Forecaster> excuses!
:O
L488[09:55:52] <Kenny> and age would only
matter if you were under 14 lol
L489[09:56:13] <Wobbo> University starts
again next monday, so I will have less time from then on
L490[09:57:19] <Kenny> the one thing I
have never been able to adjust to is the what is meant by
Univeristy in different countries...
L491[09:57:50] <Kenny> here in the US -
univeristy is college, though i know in some countries it is used
to mean high school
L492[09:57:59] <Wobbo> I mean University
in the European sense of the word. So that is where scientists
work
L493[09:58:14] <Wobbo> And teach, most of
the time :P
L494[09:58:30] <Kenny> but here in the US,
when going to college a person is usually over 18
L495[09:59:04] <Kenny> i still haven't
figuredout the European concept hehe
L496[09:59:33] <Kenny> and, yeah, this old
man is still behind in some concepts lol
L497[09:59:48] <Kenny> even after all
these years on irc
L498[10:00:10] <Wobbo> ;p
L500[10:01:04] <Forecaster> :P
L501[10:02:36] <Kenny> got a surprise for
you hehe
L502[10:02:51] <Wobbo> Does the UK have
different levels during High school?
L503[10:02:53] <Kenny> that US desn't
apply here in the twon where i live
L504[10:03:22] <Forecaster> it's 3 years
old xD
L505[10:03:29] <Kenny> elementary ends at
Garde 4 and Middle School is now 5 - 8
L506[10:03:29] <Forecaster> you shouldn't
expect me to remember
L507[10:03:36] <Kenny> Garde*
L508[10:03:40] <Kenny> damn
L509[10:03:45] <Kenny> Grade*
L510[10:04:03] <Forecaster> plus it's
based on what information I could gather back then
L511[10:04:27] <Kenny> i think that is
just here where i live. the other towns around me still have
Primary k-5, Middle 6-8, and high school 9-12
L512[10:04:53] <Kenny> the system now is
different than when i went to scholl lol
L513[10:04:58] <Kenny> school*
L514[10:05:48] <Wobbo> We have primary
4-12: high school 12-16/17/18, dependent on which "level"
of high school you go to
L515[10:05:52] <Kenny> went i went to
school it was Elementary, Junior, and then High School
L516[10:06:29] <Kenny> see, schooling over
there is so different from here :)
L517[10:06:43] <Wired2coffee> Elementary,
Middle, Jr High, High
L518[10:07:09] <Kenny> in my day it was
K-6, 7-9, and 9-12
L519[10:07:36] <Kenny> i finally gave up
on trying to keep track hehe
L520[10:07:54] <Wobbo> Kenny, to make it
more complicated, only the middle level is one level, the rest are
even more :P
L521[10:08:21] <Kenny> ok. i give up on
school systems lol
L522[10:08:43] <Wobbo> i just don't know
any better :P
L523[10:08:48] <Forecaster> fun times
:P
L524[10:08:54] <Kenny> you're in school,
what level doesn;t matter hehe
L525[10:09:19] <Forecaster> unless you're
counting the days :P
L526[10:09:27] <Forecaster> until you get
out
L527[10:09:32] *
Kenny is just an old redneck hillbilly :)
L528[10:09:51] <Kenny> albeit an
edumicated one :)
L529[10:10:08] <Forecaster> that's a new
word to me
L530[10:10:17] <Wired2coffee> one?
L531[10:10:18] <Wobbo> Kenny: level does
matter, I want to get my PHD
L532[10:10:19] <Kenny> and that was not a
mis-spelling :)
L533[10:10:33] <Wired2coffee> lemme stort
you out Forecaster
L534[10:10:33] <Kenny> it's hillbilly
slang for eductaed
L535[10:10:42] <Wired2coffee> one, two,
three...
L536[10:10:42] <Kenny> educated*
L537[10:10:47] <Forecaster> Wired2coffee:
no "an", but close :P
L538[10:10:56] <Wired2coffee> darn
L539[10:11:09] <Wobbo> Well, I gotta be
leaving
L540[10:11:15] <Wobbo> Speak you all
later!
L541[10:11:19] <Kenny> Wobbo, how old are
you?
L542[10:11:22] <Wobbo> 19
L543[10:11:30] <Kenny> cya later :)
L544[10:11:35] <Wobbo> So I still have
some time to go before I can even apply :P
L545[10:11:43] <Kenny> College level here
:)
L546[10:11:44] <Wired2coffee> No one's
asked how osd I am!
L547[10:11:54] <Forecaster> Wobbo: you
can't speak me D:
L548[10:11:55] ⇦
Quits: Wobbo (~Wobbo@5ED58A7C.cm-7-6c.dynamic.ziggo.nl) (Quit:
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L549[10:11:58] <Wired2coffee> old*
L550[10:11:59] <Kenny> osd?
L551[10:12:26] <Kenny> wired, do you even
know how old i am?
L552[10:12:40] <Wired2coffee> Fifty
ish
L553[10:13:00] <Kenny> yeah, old enough to
be the father of everyone here hehe
L554[10:13:14] <Kenny> i'll be 57 in
April
L555[10:13:31] <Forecaster> I turn 24 in
about 10 days :P
L556[10:13:44] <Kenny> just a youngster
:)
L557[10:13:59] <Wired2coffee> I tern
senile in 9 days!
L558[10:14:01] <Wired2coffee> Hah!
L559[10:14:13] <Wired2coffee> turn*
L560[10:14:26] <Kenny> i think you already
are senile hehe
L561[10:14:45] <Wired2coffee> That's
debatable.
L562[10:16:26] <Kenny> would you be able
to withstand a debate to see if it was debatable? hehe
L563[10:16:34] <Wired2coffee> You're at a
rate of > 1 :)/min Kenny
L564[10:16:57] <Kenny> and i hit the
backspace key about 10 times a sentence lol
L565[10:17:00] <Wired2coffee> I love
myself a good debate!
L566[10:18:08] <Forecaster> anything is
debatable :P
L567[10:18:37] <Wired2coffee> Except
Hypnotoad
L568[10:19:16] <Forecaster> well yeah,
that's the exception to the rule :P
L569[10:20:37] <Wired2coffee> There are
always exceptions. No exceptions.
L570[10:20:54] <Forecaster> that's
debatable too :P
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L587[13:43:37] <Kenny> !deop
L588[13:43:37]
zsh sets mode: -o on Kenny
L589[13:43:46] <Kenny> !voice
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()
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L598[14:07:11] <Kenny> !voice
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L600[14:07:16] <Kenny> !deop
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L667[18:20:33] <ping> \o/
L668[18:20:39] <ping> i feel like i missed
stuff
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L673[18:50:13] <ping> why does CPU have to
be tied to the components
L674[18:50:23] <ping> CPU should increase
its powah
L675[18:50:46] <ping> even the crappiest
computers can have a crapload of usb devices
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L681[20:46:08] <Wired2coffee> I'm not afk
anymore, btw
L682[21:08:16] *
Kenny is out to lunch
L683[21:08:44] *
Kenny - in his head
L684[21:16:14] <Wired2coffee> Dow do I
interface with a chest in OC?
L685[21:27:29]
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(~finkmac@68-68-14-113.applecreek.pathcom.com)
L686[21:29:38] <Kenny> for what?
L687[21:30:31] <Kenny> can you interface
your irl computer with a chest?
L688[22:14:14] <Wired2coffee> Yes, but
youd need some kind of system
L689[22:14:33] <Wired2coffee> Does OC have
a system like that?
L690[22:25:26] <Kenny> i'm still lost on
what you want to do. without knowing that i can't tell if you could
interface it or not
L691[22:26:53] <Wired2coffee> Like read,
withdraw, and deposit from a chest
L692[22:30:49] <Kenny> you could use TE
itemducts. rp signal to activate the duct, but each cheat coulkd
only have 1 king of item, like iron ingots
L693[22:31:14] <Kenny> other than that i
can't think of any other way right now
L694[22:31:20] <Wired2coffee> Don't have
TE :\
L695[22:32:15] <Kenny> can't think of
another way right now, too tired
L696[22:34:22] ⇦
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L698[22:36:46] <Wired2coffee> Oh well,
thanks anyway
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