OCLogs: 2019-01-01.log

Stuff goes here

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L3[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Pushing snapshot_20190101 mappings to Forge Maven.

L4[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV] Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20190101-1.13.1.zip (mappings = "snapshot_20190101" in build.gradle).

L5[02:00:18] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live (every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed) MCPBot mapping exports can be found here: http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/

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L7[02:38:03] <ForgeDiscord> <xXEclipseLoverXx> New year snapshot!

L8[04:11:38] <xaero> wait, so there's two forge discord channels? or am I missing something?

L9[05:47:20] <ForgeDiscord> <Musician101> There's the irc and then there's the Discord

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L14[07:36:03] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> The discord is more fun

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L21[11:53:43] <DoNotSpamPls> yeah, irc is for nerds

L22[12:02:44] <ForgeDiscord> <Lumber Wizard> Are you that one guy from xkcd 1782?

L23[12:03:26] <ben_mkiv> no, its me

L24[12:03:42] <ben_mkiv> once discord went full of ads and pay2use everyone will come back to irc

L25[12:04:06] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> they make money buy selling games

L26[12:04:13] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> which I don't buy

L27[12:04:21] <ForgeDiscord> <Lumber Wizard> Yeah, and from Nitro, which I don't have

L28[12:04:26] <ForgeDiscord> <Lumber Wizard> I think we'll be fine

L29[12:04:34] <ForgeDiscord> <Lumber Wizard> If Whatsapp manages Discord can too

L30[12:10:42] <IoP> ads in discord?

L31[12:12:38] <ben_mkiv> soon... or the government is going to buy it

L32[12:12:51] <ben_mkiv> eazy peazy data collection

L33[12:13:43] <IoP> why past tense earlier?

L34[12:14:00] <gigaherz> they make money off Nitro

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L36[12:14:17] <ben_mkiv> idk, its not my native language so please excuse my grammar

L37[12:14:22] <gigaherz> which lets you use the image thingies from one server in another server

L38[12:14:37] <ben_mkiv> and animated ones xD

L39[12:14:39] <gigaherz> among some game-related things

L40[12:14:50] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> and custom #0000 tags

L41[12:14:50] <gigaherz> so long as that's profitable, they have no need for ads

L42[12:15:03] <gigaherz> also

L43[12:15:15] <gigaherz> why would people go back to irc, instead of just use something like discord

L44[12:15:18] <gigaherz> say.... Mattermost

L45[12:15:40] <gigaherz> IRC has no persistent history

L46[12:15:42] <gigaherz> no offline messages

L47[12:15:47] <gigaherz> no push notifications

L48[12:15:56] <gigaherz> no image/video/file hosting

L49[12:16:04] <gigaherz> you can ADD those things through special clients and services

L50[12:16:11] <gigaherz> but that means paying for those services

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L52[12:16:33] <IoP> ben_mkiv: np. Usually people forgot to use past tense when they should do it.

L53[12:16:35] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> new server on demand

L54[12:17:02] <IoP> IRC has nothing average users requires chatting :/

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L56[12:26:28] <ben_mkiv> *new channels on demand*

L57[12:26:52] <ben_mkiv> and integrated bouncers

L58[12:27:10] <ben_mkiv> who knows, maybe the backend even is irc :D

L59[12:29:10] <gigaherz> nah it would be easier the other way around

L60[12:29:20] <gigaherz> have a cloud-message system and put an IRC frontend on it

L61[12:29:48] <gigaherz> for a cloud-backed messaging system you need to be able to assign unique IDs to messages

L62[12:30:02] <gigaherz> and be able to quickly calculate the history of a channel

L63[12:30:50] <ForgeDiscord> <srs_bsns> IRC is a 30 year old protocol that hasn't really changed much since it was created. It's only for old people like me. ?

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L65[12:32:10] <IoP> Well IRCv3 is coming maybe-ish soon-ish

L66[12:32:32] <ssblur> TBF it's a 30 year old protocol that still works pretty well and is pretty universally accessible.

L67[12:32:47] <ForgeDiscord> <January Blurst, 2019> Though I guess Discord is too

L68[12:32:54] <ForgeDiscord> <January Blurst, 2019> Since it's available online

L69[12:33:15] <gigaherz> IoP: I thought IRCv3 was already a thing

L70[12:33:36] <gigaherz> SASL and such are ircv3 features aren't they?

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L72[12:34:19] <IoP> afaik current SALS implementations are just well-known hacks on top of old protocol

L73[12:34:43] <gigaherz> no

L74[12:34:47] <ssblur> Well, IRCv3 is meant to be backwards compatible

L75[12:34:52] <ssblur> so it kinda is

L76[12:34:52] <gigaherz> SASL is implemented on top of the ircv3 capability system

L77[12:35:00] <gigaherz> which replaces the old-style login process

L78[12:35:01] <ssblur> but it's more of an extension

L79[12:35:08] <gigaherz> basically

L80[12:35:16] <gigaherz> the first thing you do on a new IRC connection

L81[12:35:25] <IoP> old style as nickserv?

L82[12:35:28] <gigaherz> is send your USER info and then request a NICK

L83[12:35:49] <gigaherz> after which the server answers with some data, and then sends the MOTD

L84[12:36:01] <gigaherz> which marks the point at which the connection is considered "ready" for joining channels

L85[12:36:20] <gigaherz> the capability system happens BEFORE this initial negotiation

L86[12:36:28] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> that's relying on a bot for auth.

L87[12:36:30] <gigaherz> or well, before one of those commands

L88[12:36:34] <ForgeDiscord> <killjoy ?> it's no different than AuthMe on bukkit

L89[12:36:47] <gigaherz> instead of just finishing the initial set of commands

L90[12:36:50] <gigaherz> the client sends a CAP LS

L91[12:37:00] <gigaherz> the server answers with a list of capabilities

L92[12:37:09] <gigaherz> and then the client can enable some of them

L93[12:37:14] <gigaherz> if it enables the SASL capability

L94[12:37:27] <gigaherz> the server then expects the client to provide the login message

L95[12:37:44] <gigaherz> which for most servers is plaintext

L96[12:38:02] <gigaherz> (which is why it's strongly recommended to use a SSL/TLS connection to IRC)

L97[12:38:32] <gigaherz> and yes

L98[12:38:35] <gigaherz> nickserv is just a bot

L99[12:38:51] <gigaherz> althouhg for many servers, this "bot" is really a plugin running on the server itself

L100[12:38:54] <gigaherz> and not a separate computer

L101[12:39:17] <gigaherz> the services bot communicates your login requests to the server, and such

L102[12:39:25] <gigaherz> with SASL, you bypass that, and talk directly with the server

L103[12:39:58] <gigaherz> [17:13] Caps supported: account-notify away-notify cap-notify chghost extended-join multi-prefix sasl tls userhost-in-names

L104[12:40:04] <gigaherz> ^ this is what esper says

L105[12:40:31] <gigaherz> account-notify means you can request the server to tell you when people go online/offline

L106[12:40:40] <gigaherz> away-notify means you can request the server totell you when people go /away

L107[12:41:26] <IoP> cool. Time to update my knowledge

L108[12:41:42] <gigaherz> multi-prefix allows the client to choose if the server showsm ultiple user mode prefixes

L109[12:41:42] <gigaherz> like

L110[12:41:45] <gigaherz> @+something

L111[12:41:50] <gigaherz> for someone who's op and voice at the same time

L112[12:42:15] <gigaherz> the rest I don't know exactly :P

L113[12:42:24] <gigaherz> (I can guess but it would just be a guess)

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