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L1[00:09:10] ⇨
Joins: Darkhax
(~darkhax@d205-206-157-117.abhsia.telus.net)
L2[01:05:28] <LexMobile> Anyone in here feel
like screwing around in gradle?
L3[01:20:07] ⇨
Joins: Hunterz
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L4[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Pushing snapshot_20171122 mappings to Forge Maven.
L5[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20171122-1.12.zip
(mappings = "snapshot_20171122" in build.gradle).
L6[02:00:17] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live
(every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed)
MCPBot mapping exports can be found here:
http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L20[05:57:31] <gigaherz|work>
Breakage!
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L27[06:54:17] <quadraxis> it's out
L29[06:54:57] <quadraxis> changlog:
L30[06:55:10] <quadraxis> everything is
broken
L31[06:56:52] <gigaherz|work> it's... ah
ninja'd
L32[06:57:19] <gigaherz|work> OOOOH
L33[06:57:24] <gigaherz|work> the block ID
refactoring is in!
L34[06:57:26] <quadraxis> this appears to
be "the one"
L35[06:57:35] <quadraxis> -5/10 for
stability tho
L36[06:59:18] <gigaherz|work> gotta
go
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L38[07:09:22] ⇨
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L39[07:30:46] <Hunterz> totally bugged
snapshot ever
L40[07:30:57] <Hunterz> click to
multiplayer = crash
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L48[09:01:25] <masa> I crash even before
the game starts to load...
L49[09:01:30] <masa> and nothing in the
log
L50[09:02:26] <masa> oh wait, it's in the
launcher log
L51[09:03:16] <masa> yep, the resolution
option, if enabled/set, crashes the game :/
L52[09:17:31] <masa> interesting,
NBTExplorer just crashes when trying to expand a Chunk entry
L53[09:17:47] <masa> so there may be
Anvil-file level changes to the data structure?
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L55[09:18:27] <masa> I'm hoping they
changes the way the chunks are allocated, the old way was wasting
space on compressible worlds
L56[09:18:32] <masa> *changed
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L59[10:18:16] <barteks2x> That m,ay be
interesting... now I *really* want to make my own srg mapping
updater
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L69[11:40:55] ***
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L70[11:40:58] <gigaherz> so
L71[11:41:03] <gigaherz> anyone toyed
around with the new snapshot?
L72[11:41:45] <gigaherz> I see that masa
did :P
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L74[11:44:41] <barteks2x> I would try to
load it but don't want to waste an hour when it decides to use 10+
GB RA< again
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L78[11:50:19] <gigaherz> so first thing I
see
L79[11:50:24] <gigaherz> is that variants
are now separate blocks
L80[11:50:43] <gigaherz> they have separate
names, that is
L81[11:50:56] <gigaherz>
minecraft:oak_fence_gate vs minecraft:jungle_fence_gate
L82[11:51:58] <gigaherz> which means
L83[11:52:02] <malte0811> Are different
directions separate blocks as well? So ok_fence_gate_west,
...?
L84[11:52:07] <gigaherz> no
L85[11:52:10] <gigaherz> those are still
states
L86[11:52:12] <gigaherz> but
L87[11:52:13] <gigaherz>
minecraft:ink_sack
L88[11:52:13] <malte0811> Good
L89[11:52:17] <gigaherz> is not
minecraft:dye
L90[11:52:38] <gigaherz> in fact there's no
minecraft:dye by itself, there's orange_dye etc
L91[11:52:49] <gigaherz> they added bark
blocks
L92[11:52:59] <gigaherz> oak bark, etc,
which don't have a "naked" side
L93[11:53:08] <gigaherz> also different
wood buttons and trapdoors
L94[11:53:22] <gigaherz> interestingly,
wet_sponge and dry_sponge are separate blocks
L95[11:53:37] <gigaherz> there's now smooth
slab-blocks
L96[11:53:54] <gigaherz> smooth red
sandstone, smooth stone block (like a double-slab, but without the
dividing line)
L97[11:54:18] <gigaherz> I hear that
there's a debug stick item, you can /give
L98[11:54:34] <gigaherz> which lets you
rotate blocks, and cycle through the states
L99[11:55:30] <gigaherz> spawn eggs are
also separate items
L100[11:55:35] <gigaherz>
minecraft:creeper_spawn_egg
L101[11:57:34] <gigaherz> potions are
still NBT-based
L102[11:59:06] <gigaherz> why's the mouse
sensitivity so stupidly high >_<
L103[11:59:34] <gigaherz> had to set it
down to 80% :/
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L111[12:33:03] <gigaherz> ?
L112[12:33:12] <gigaherz> oh
L113[12:33:12] <UnReal> the bounding
box
L114[12:33:18] <gigaherz> the selection
box
L115[12:33:27] <gigaherz> is actually a
combined box
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L119[12:36:25] <Raycoms> Hi, I have an
item which stores an NbtTag which I save in it on the client side,
but it loses it as soon as I click on a chest, what should I
do?
L120[12:37:07] <malte0811> Save it on the
server side as well?
L121[12:37:53] <gigaherz> don't
"save" stuff on the client. ever.
L122[12:38:12] <gigaherz> the server will
overwrite the data as soon as any interaction happens
L123[12:38:24] <gigaherz> "storing in
the client" == "desynchronizing on purpose" == not a
good thing
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L125[12:38:33] <Raycoms> Ahh ok
L126[12:38:34] <Raycoms> thanks
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L137[13:45:43] <gigaherz>
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOH
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L139[13:45:51] <gigaherz> the snapshot
allows chests to be placed next to other chests
L140[13:46:00] <gigaherz> and they only
connect when you place two single chests next to eachother
L141[13:46:13] <gigaherz> unless you
shift-click
L142[13:46:15] <gigaherz> then it won't
:O
L143[13:49:31] <UnRealDinner> omg your
right
L144[13:52:00] <gigaherz> that
minecraft:debug_stick needs to stay
L145[13:52:06] <gigaherz> they should make
it creative-only or something
L146[13:52:08] <gigaherz> XD
L147[13:52:16] <gigaherz> but it's really
useful
L148[13:53:47] <UnRealDinner> it is
L149[13:54:01] <barteks2x> Just out of
curiousity, which checks connect when you have 2 chests separated
by empty place, and place a chest in that empty place?
L150[13:54:17] <barteks2x> *chests
L151[13:55:15] <gigaherz>
checking...
L152[13:55:23] <UnRealDinner> south and
west
L153[13:55:42] <xaero> have noteblocks
finally been flattened? :)
L154[13:55:49] <gigaherz> none, for me
:P
L155[13:56:00] <gigaherz> oh wait
L156[13:56:05] <gigaherz> they only
connect if they look the same way
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L158[13:56:24] <UnRealDinner> no
wait
L159[13:56:26] <gigaherz> if two options
are available, west connects first
L160[13:56:37] <gigaherz> and south
connects first
L161[13:56:44] <UnRealDinner> it's left
first?
L162[13:56:59] <gigaherz> ah yes
L163[13:57:04] <gigaherz> depends on the
direction the chests look at
L164[13:57:29] <gigaherz> the first chosen
one is the one the "lock" would point at if you rotate it
clockwise
L165[13:57:43] <gigaherz> so the left one
with the chests facing you
L166[13:58:16] <gigaherz> and given that
chests place facing you
L167[13:58:35] <gigaherz> "the one to
the left" is an accurate description"
L168[13:59:49] <gigaherz> "the one to
the left, if there is a chest facing you in the left"
L169[14:00:07] <gigaherz> "the one to
the left, if there is a chest facing you in the left, otherwise the
one on the right, if it faces you, otherwise it won't
connect"
L170[14:00:47] <gigaherz> (in front/behind
will never connect, by definition, since the chest won't be facing
the right way)
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L172[14:02:56] <xaero> since
noteblocks/flowerpots should be blocks now, do they have a new
property to make them immovable by pistons? or was there an
interface they implemented (sorry been too long from the mc
code)?
L173[14:03:25] <gigaherz> you mean
"now" as in 1.12.2? or in the new snapshot that changes
everything?
L174[14:03:51] <xaero> the new
snapshot
L175[14:04:08] <xaero> aka "the
flattening"
L176[14:04:16] <gigaherz> they have no
properties at all
L177[14:04:35] <gigaherz> in fact
L178[14:04:41] <gigaherz> when you put a
flower in them
L179[14:04:50] <gigaherz> they turn into
like, minecraft:potted_poppy
L180[14:05:32] <xaero> huh, cool
L181[14:06:21] <gigaherz> also they pop
off if you try to push them with a piston
L182[14:06:32] <gigaherz> I can't tell you
how that is done in the code -- I haven't decompiled the
snapshot
L183[14:07:02] <gigaherz> but I doubt that
has changed much
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L185[14:07:45] <UnRealDinner> they added a
lot of particle effects to
L186[14:07:57] <UnRealDinner> try and move
a chest with a sticky piston
L187[14:09:25] <gigaherz> the piston head
breaks instead of retracting
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L190[14:15:45] <UnRealDinner> oh they
renamed fish to cod
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L196[14:43:39] <LexMobile> +
L197[14:44:39] <LexMobile> ya this
snapshot is going to be interesting, im in the middle of working on
something for 1.12 so once I finish that I think this will be worth
making a private MCP update just to fuck around with.
L198[14:44:53] <gigaherz> heh
L199[14:44:58] <LexMobile> However, I am
still looking for someone to do some gradlefoo for me so I can fix
Fernflower issues on Java9
L200[14:45:04] <LexMobile> So if anyone
wants to volenteer
L201[14:45:16] <gigaherz> I suck too much
at gradle to be of any use
L202[14:46:51] <LexMobile> btw, anyone
know off ahnd what the code to set a item's model is? I wanna cheat
and not make the json and just have the item's model be a
stickl
L203[14:48:39] <fry>
setCustomModelResourceLocation, point to "minecrat:stick"
or whatever :P
L204[14:48:41] <gigaherz>
ModelLoader.setCustomModelResourceLocation(youritem, 0, new
ModelResourceLocation("minecraft:stick#inventory"))
should do the trick
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L208[14:49:22] <LexMobile> thxbby
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L235[17:31:23] <LexMobile> I'll look into
it, I just need a way to have two source sets, one compiled for J8,
the other compiled for J9.
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L255[20:02:15] <williewillus> kashike: any
interesting finds in the snapshot so far? Or has the flattening
been pretty much as-expected?
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L259[20:15:16] <justJanne> Has anyone
heard any rumors about which libraries of LWJGL3 will be included
in MC1.13?
L260[20:15:24] <williewillus> can you not
install snapshots in multimc anymore? 0.o
L261[20:15:33] <williewillus> wanted to
peek at the world format of the flattened system
L262[20:17:00] <kashike> justJanne: lwjgl,
lwjgl-jemalloc, lwjgl-openal, lwjgl-glfw, lwjgl-stb
L263[20:17:24] <justJanne> Hmpf.
L264[20:17:35] <justJanne> I was hoping
we'd get finally -vk
L265[20:18:08] <williewillus> what's
that?
L266[20:18:22] <justJanne> That'd be
vulkan
L267[20:18:48] <justJanne> A good idea if
you're doing expensive stuff, or trying to ship SPIR-V
shaders.
L268[20:19:01] <williewillus> lex's latest
tweet is very interesting
L269[20:19:07] <justJanne> As in,
computationally expensive
L270[20:19:23] <justJanne> williewillus:
can you link? Sorry
L272[20:19:45] <kashike> williewillus: see
PM, too
L273[20:19:56] <Zidane> Willie what about
it lol?
L274[20:20:52] <williewillus> it's just
interesting, idk what it's for since it's not real json
L275[20:21:29] <williewillus> oh it's nbt
interesting
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L278[20:36:30] <williewillus> hmm I can't
examine the new chunk format in nbtexplorer
L279[20:36:42] <williewillus> new tag type
got added probably
L280[20:40:53] <LexMobile> nope no new
type
L281[20:42:29] <williewillus> ah
nbtexplorer hasn't been updated in forever and it doesn't suport
long arrays
L282[20:44:28] <williewillus> slabs are
now {bottom, top, double} instead of double slabs being a separate
block nice
L283[20:53:09] <justJanne> williewillus:
about your reddit comment: that's ignoring modern SSDs, or the OS
cache.
L284[20:53:39] <justJanne> By the time
you're loading the configs, the mods themselves have already been
loaded, and the jars should be mostly cached.
L285[20:54:05] <justJanne> At that point,
decompressing and parsing tenthousands of json files becomes a
bottleneck.
L286[20:54:54] <justJanne> I've spent the
past few years hand-optimizing a parser for a network protocol in
Java, and the performance difference you see based on the format is
significant, if the parser is written well
L287[20:55:44] <williewillus> imo the
benefits of data-driven shapes/textures outweights that downside
?shrug
L288[20:56:20] <justJanne> Oh, I don't
argue against data-driven shapes
L289[20:56:54] <justJanne> Just, Minecraft
already has a highly efficient format for that that is compressed,
and fast to parse, and as powerful as json.
L290[20:56:56] <justJanne> NBT.
L291[20:57:33] <LexMobile> Not
really
L292[20:57:40] <williewillus> it's not
text-editable though, RP makers don't know how to open up an NBT
file :P
L293[20:57:46] <williewillus> not without
nonstandard tools at least
L294[20:57:54] <LexMobile> It doesn't have
the flexibility and rugadness that json has
L295[20:58:11] <LexMobile> and yes, the
barrior to entry of it being a propritary binary format is a MAJOR
issue.
L296[20:58:29] <justJanne> Sure, but when
building the mod for release, transforming the models into a binary
format as build step should be easy
L297[20:58:34] <LexMobile> What i would
suggest is you actually start providing numbers before you speak of
performance.
L298[20:59:21] <williewillus> anyways, the
reddit comment i originally responded to was complaining about how
things were separated/loading thousands of files so my rebuttals
were against those points mainly
L299[20:59:22] <LexMobile> I'd be willing
to bet {not the way I phrase that, as I honestly haven't profiled
it} that the performance for PURELY the loding in objects in memory
of json and NBT are negelibly comparable.
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L301[21:00:17] <LexMobile> From the
profiling i have done, the 'bottleneck' is the actual processing of
the data... cuz well. that shit takes times.
L302[21:00:45] <justJanne> LexMobile: it's
not just json vs. NBT, but json in compressed jar vs. binary format
without compression, or with faster to decode compression.
L303[21:00:55] <justJanne> In vanilla MC
this is negligible,
L304[21:01:00] ***
justJanne was kicked by LexMobile (Rules))
L305[21:01:50] <LexMobile> Honestly
uncompressed data is dumb, I mean if people were really worried
about that you could just set the compression level of your jar to
0, and poof NO decompression.
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L308[21:03:39] <LexMobile> but ya, the
change would be way to costly in the sense of usability. Not worth
it for the negelegable load time differences.
L309[21:04:19] <justJanne> So, I just
learnt, automated nick completion is a bad feature in an IRC
client.
L310[21:04:38] <justJanne> That said, yes,
in vanilla or small modded situations it'd be negligible,
L311[21:05:21] <justJanne> But in some
larger modpacks reloading models and materials can end up taking
minutes, most of which in decompressing and parsing according to my
profiling
L312[21:05:55] <LexMobile> There you go
again
L313[21:06:00] <LexMobile> talking out of
your ass
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L315[21:06:12] <LexMobile> You should
start a road show, i'm sure people would pay to see that.
L316[21:06:29] <justJanne> I can give you
the numbers tomorrow
L317[21:06:35] <justJanne> And the raw
profiling results.
L318[21:07:06] <justJanne> I'm saying
there is a difference, and it's something that can be optimized
fully automatically, without compromising any usability.
L319[21:07:09] <mezz> models take forever
but the best way to measure this is to implement something hacked
together and try before/after
L320[21:07:24] <LexMobile> Do it, And
write up a test that compares loading json object into memory and a
equivelent nbt object.
L321[21:07:52] <LexMobile> Yes if Mojang
wanted to they could go the route of many other platforms.
L322[21:08:04] <LexMobile> And do build
time baking. But into what...
L323[21:08:23] <LexMobile> The texture
atlas needs to be rebuilt every run, so that data is useless.
L324[21:08:43] <LexMobile> What data do
you think could be written to disc to speedup the load time?
L325[21:08:54] <justJanne> Every run where
the game has changed, it has to be rebuilt.
L326[21:09:02] <justJanne> If nothing
changes, it can stay cached.
L327[21:09:07] <mezz> you can definitely
cache stuff from a stable pack, which is a majority of the
time
L328[21:09:16] <mezz> question is how much
gain is there really
L329[21:09:16] <justJanne> As can the
entire model data, and more.
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L331[21:09:50] <UnRealDinner> I thought
asie made a mod to do something like that
L332[21:09:56] <LexMobile> Possibly, but
that precludes changing textures in game. And then you'd also need
a system in place to detect said changes.
L333[21:10:00] <LexMobile> without reading
all of the data...
L334[21:10:42] <justJanne> Yeah, that's
where not having any unique identifiers easily readable is an
issue.
L335[21:10:46] <LexMobile> If you think
you can do a better job, while maintaing stability, do it.
L336[21:11:02] <justJanne> Well, it wasn't
necessarily a suggestion for forge
L337[21:11:18] <mezz> asie created
ClassCacheTweaker but it caches something different
L338[21:11:23] <mezz> and it's buggy
L339[21:11:25] <justJanne> Just a
discussion between williewillus and me that started on
reddit.
L340[21:11:48] <LexMobile> I can
understand that but it spilled into my room and turned into
baseless complaining.
L341[21:12:03] <LexMobile> Its fine to
discuss a issue, as long as you're willing to atleast try and find
a solution
L342[21:12:17] <justJanne> Oh, I am.
L343[21:12:38] <justJanne> And there are
mamy nice solutions. But they basically kill compatibility.
L344[21:13:31] <LexMobile> Well thats
where Forge comes in. If you do it correctly, then it becomes a
standard.
L345[21:13:57] <LexMobile> But honestly,
all the 'nice solutions' ive found arnt nice solutions as they
screw over the standards and functionality
L346[21:15:34] <LexMobile> And ya asie's
hack was to cache the coremod transformers, which sorta works. But
honestly it just needs coremods to die/be written correctly.
L347[21:19:03] <justJanne> Well, coremods
as installation-time transformation would be useful, too.
L348[21:19:31] <justJanne> But all of this
would require that after a user adds/removes a mod, something would
be run
L349[21:20:58] <LexMobile> Maybe, but
honestly 90% of them should just flat out die.
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L351[21:21:14] <LexMobile> We have some
ideas for the J9 rewrite to make things better. But we'll see
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L353[21:24:40] <justJanne> L: As we're on
that topic, I think I've asked before, is there any public design
document, tracking milestone or issue or kanban board, on what
direction that's going to take?
L354[21:25:05] <justJanne> Just something
I can subscribe to get notifications when something happens
L355[21:27:04] <LexMobile> nope
L356[21:28:04] <justJanne> :/
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