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L5[00:43:36] <Kuzan> Hello
L6[00:48:47] <killjoy> howdy
L7[00:49:25] <Kuzan> Hey I am having some
issues with Forge and I would like some help, you think you could
give me a hand?
L8[00:49:52] <killjoy> as they say, don't
ask to ask
L9[00:51:53] <killjoy> ...
L10[00:51:55] <Kuzan> Oh haha okay well, I
am trying to get mc 1.12.1 to work with forge, I keep getting an
error saying "Error downloading Forge.jar" Or
osmething
L11[00:52:21] <killjoy> You downloaded
forge from files.minecraft.net ? Used the installer?
L12[00:52:36] <killjoy> (this channel is
mostly for developers)
L13[00:53:15] <Kuzan> (Oh uh sorry is there
a different channel for Forge help?)
L14[00:53:26] <killjoy> This one's as good
as any
L15[00:53:47] <killjoy> I'm just saying
it's developers who hang out here.
L16[00:53:54] <Kuzan> Oh gotcha
L17[00:54:22] <Kuzan> I got the installer
from the official website
L18[00:54:30] <killjoy> have a full
log?
L20[00:54:55] <Kuzan> Also uh lemme find
the log
L21[00:55:22] <killjoy> Also mention which
launcher you're using
L22[00:57:15] <Kuzan> The regular old
launcher that comes with minecraft
L23[00:57:17] <Kuzan> Failed to download
file. forge-1.12.1-14.22.0.2459.jar
L24[00:57:17] <Kuzan> Name:
forge-1.12.1-14.22.0.2459.jar
L26[00:57:17] <Kuzan> Error details: HTTP
404: Not Found
L27[00:57:19] <Kuzan> Filename on disk:
d86a-65a5-288c-0c25
L28[00:57:21] <Kuzan> Path:
C:\Users\Kuzan\AppData\Local\Temp\d86a-65a5-288c-0c25
L29[00:57:23] <Kuzan> Exists: file
L30[00:57:25] <killjoy> ugh
L31[00:57:32] <killjoy> use pastebin
please
L32[00:57:41] <Kuzan> Okay I am obviously
uneducated
L33[00:58:03] <Kuzan> sorry
L34[00:58:05] <killjoy> from the looks of
it, I would guess someone deleted
.minecraft/libraries/net/minecraftforge
L35[00:58:27] <killjoy> and the launcher
doesn't support maven classifiers
L37[01:00:59] <Kuzan> which launcher should
I be using?
L38[01:01:05] <killjoy> Re-run the
installer should fix it
L39[01:01:51] <Kuzan> Wait what?
L40[01:01:59] <killjoy> run the installer
again
L42[01:05:11] <killjoy> That's a rather
short log
L43[01:05:20] <Kuzan> I have a few
different versions of MC with a few different mods for each
one
L44[01:05:29] <killjoy> are they split
between folders?
L45[01:05:42] <Kuzan> Im trying to keep
them separate because they seem to make eachother crash somehow. I
have no idea what I am doing
L46[01:05:43] <killjoy> 1.10 mods in
mods/1.10, 1.12 mods in mods/1.12
L47[01:06:44] <killjoy> might want to take
this to the forums
L48[01:07:18] <Kuzan> I thin I am gonna
just uninstall mc, rebuild all of my folders, make a new .minecraft
maybe use a different launcher
L49[01:07:34] <killjoy> the default
launcher should be fine
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L59[02:00:03] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Pushing snapshot_20170820 mappings to Forge Maven.
L60[02:00:07] <MCPBot_Reborn> [TEST CSV]
Maven upload successful for mcp_snapshot-20170820-1.12.zip
(mappings = "snapshot_20170820" in build.gradle).
L61[02:00:17] <MCPBot_Reborn> Semi-live
(every 10 min), Snapshot (daily ~3:00 EST), and Stable (committed)
MCPBot mapping exports can be found here:
http://export.mcpbot.bspk.rs/
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L132[10:31:35] <williewillus> umm...so how
do we have meta-distinguished tesr itemstacks
L133[10:31:39] <williewillus> ?
L134[10:31:55] <ghz|afk> you don't
L135[10:32:26] <williewillus> ..
L136[10:32:34] <ghz|afk> actually no
wait
L137[10:32:40] <ghz|afk>
registerTESRItemStack gets item+meta
L138[10:32:50] <ghz|afk> what you can't
access is the NBT
L139[10:33:05] <ghz|afk> you can't really
access the meta or anything else either
L140[10:33:05] <williewillus> I mean,
making the tesr aware of which meta it was
L141[10:33:12] <ghz|afk> you can't.
L142[10:33:20] <ghz|afk> that's
specifically something forge doesn't want to support at all
L143[10:33:55] <ghz|afk> the TESR doesn't
receive the itemstack at all, when rendering an item
L144[10:34:44] <ghz|afk> the only reason
it exists is as a way to continue supporting mods that draw
chest-like things using TESR, and don't want to have a separate
model for the itemstack
L145[10:35:15] <williewillus> yes which is
dumb. dirty workaround it is then (having a different TE class for
each meta each with a different TESR)
L146[10:35:19] <williewillus> well that's
exactly my case lol
L147[10:36:09] <ghz|afk> yeah but you
should know better ;P
L148[10:36:15] <williewillus> how do TE's
handle compatibility? If I remove a TE do existing ones in the
world get replaced with a fresh call to createTileEntity or
what
L149[10:36:27] <ghz|afk> no
L150[10:36:34] <ghz|afk> saved TEs are
loaded based on the regsitry name
L151[10:36:37] <ghz|afk> and instantiated
through reflection
L152[10:36:52] <ghz|afk> well,
class.newInstance()
L153[10:37:17] <ghz|afk> createTileEntity
is only called on placing the block
L154[10:37:33] <ghz|afk> or if the block
changes state and shouldRefresh returns true
L155[10:38:39] <ghz|afk> ideally, you'd
switch away from drawing hardcoded models using the TESR, so that
you can use the blockstate json for the itemstack model
L156[10:39:02] <ghz|afk> you can still do
the animation, but using json/obj/b3d models as a source, instead
of custom drawing them
L157[10:39:29] <ghz|afk> or even better:
using the animation system to define the animations, so that you
can just attach the animation to the itemstack
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L160[11:04:17] <barteks2x> I have a remote
debugger attached to a server. Is there any way I can debug vanilla
coe in there?
L161[11:04:30] <barteks2x> (it's running
obvuscated environment)
L162[11:05:19] <ghz|afk> you'd have to
somehow generate a source jar with obf names
L163[11:06:08] <barteks2x> and have the
line numbers somehow match
L164[11:06:34] <barteks2x> also the
debugger seems to be extremely slow. Waiting ove r a minute to make
a thread sump
L165[11:06:47] <barteks2x> (running
debugger over ssh)
L166[11:07:19] <barteks2x> and while doing
that the server actually freezes for over a minute
L167[11:08:04] <barteks2x> any idea where
I could even get some help with that?
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L178[12:57:59] <ghz|afk> so, anyone here
knows how the modpack stuff works on curseforge?
L179[12:58:04] <ghz|afk> I got this
comment yesterdayt
L181[12:58:06] <ghz|afk> -t
L182[12:59:21] <ghz|afk> but I don't know
what would happen if that library was uploaded to curseforge, would
the modpack try to download it manually even though it's embedded
into the jar?
L183[13:04:08] <PaleoCrafter> depends on
the filename
L184[13:04:52] <PaleoCrafter> oh, I
see
L185[13:05:29] <PaleoCrafter> this is
tricky, since Forge will extract the JAR to the versioned mod
dir
L186[13:05:39] <PaleoCrafter> but Curse
doesn't use it at all
L187[13:06:13] <PaleoCrafter> but they can
just remove the Commons jar from the pack, ghz|afk
L188[13:06:32] <ghz|afk> yeah I know
L189[13:06:45] <PaleoCrafter> they
probably ship with another non-Curse mod and Curse only allows
including the top-level directory in the export
L190[13:07:01] <ghz|afk> I sortof blame
curse -- they should ignore mods in versioned folders ;P
L191[13:08:32] <ghz|afk> so basically as
things are, I feel that if I add the library as a "mod"
to curseforge, packs will download it separately, making the
embedding almost pointless
L192[13:08:44] <ghz|afk> or maybe even
problematic
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L194[13:08:59] <ghz|afk> but I don't want
to require people to dl the lib separately
L195[13:09:08] <ghz|afk> if that was my
best choice, I'd go back to shading renamed packages
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L197[13:13:38] <PaleoCrafter> uhm... why
not just keep the extraction?
L198[13:13:45] <PaleoCrafter> you just
need to educate pack makers xD
L199[13:14:12] <ghz|afk> yeah that's what
I'm thinking ;P
L200[13:14:36] <ghz|afk> specially since
it will become more and more common if those coremod guidelines
become widely used
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L207[13:55:52] <barteks2x> also would it
ever be possible to hotswap vanilla code when debugging obfuscated
environment? (even if it involves a lot of work)
L208[13:56:56] <ghz|afk> within the limits
of the JVM, I guess
L209[13:57:11] <barteks2x> or is it just
not possible because the line numbers are never going to
match?
L210[13:57:15] <barteks2x> and
coremods
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L213[14:02:59] <LexMobile> "In
principle the mods/<mcversion> folders are autogenerated
during startup so the files in there shouldn't even be considered
part of the pack" Wat...
L214[14:03:29] <LexMobile> the mod folder
is auto generated during startup as well. So by that logic no mods
are part of the mod pack?
L215[14:03:51] <ghz|afk> I meant that
things inside like mods/1.12 are going to be the stuff unpacked
from the mod jars
L216[14:03:58] <killjoy> Yeah, you should
be using the modpack.json
L217[14:03:59] <LexMobile> who says
that?
L218[14:04:01] <barteks2x> I think I will
need to run the test server in dev envoronment...
L219[14:04:03] <ghz|afk> I did
L220[14:04:06] <LexMobile> You're
wrong
L221[14:04:09] <killjoy> or the --mods
arg
L222[14:04:17] <ghz|afk> well then I stand
corrected
L223[14:04:19] <PaleoCrafter>
"you"? :P
L224[14:04:24] <LexMobile> the versioned
directory MAY contain auto extracted mods
L225[14:04:30] <LexMobile> But its
literally just another mod directory
L226[14:04:36] <PaleoCrafter> (that was
directed at killjoy) xD
L227[14:04:52] <LexMobile> to be used like
the normal one when you wanna run two mods packs at once in the
same directory
L228[14:04:54] <killjoy> you in the
general sense
L229[14:04:59] <killjoy> /s
L230[14:05:18] <LexMobile> but yess Curse
*SHOULD* be using the modpack.json
L231[14:05:26] <LexMobile> it would save
them A TON of bandwidth
L232[14:05:30] <LexMobile> but they dont
care about that
L233[14:07:47] <PaleoCrafter> oh, Lex,
I've changed the list generation a bit in my PR, btw. It creates a
separate file now just for extracted deps. And I just noticed that
I can do it a lot cleaner by just also adjusting the modlist loader
>.>
L234[14:08:15] <ghz|afk> welp then I'm
back to having no idea what to do
L235[14:09:04] <ghz|afk> between telling
them to just delete it whenever they are about to update the pack,
going back to shading, and creating a curseforge project for a
library that isn't really a mod
L236[14:10:06] <LexMobile> make a project
for it
L237[14:10:29] <LexMobile> or, just pack
it in your jar with the extract mechanics...
L238[14:10:40] <LexMobile> And we'll
extract it nexttime they run.. whats the issue?
L239[14:10:44] <PaleoCrafter> that's what
he's doing :P
L240[14:10:52] <ghz|afk> the issue is,
curses "export pack" feature
L241[14:10:56] <ghz|afk> includes those
extracted jars
L242[14:10:58] <PaleoCrafter> the problem
is that pack makers are lazy and don't remove the extracted JAR
from the pack ZIP
L243[14:11:06] <ghz|afk> which are not
valid curse jars, so the pack is rejected
L244[14:11:18] <LexMobile> The export
should contain your main mod jar... so what?
L245[14:11:23] <LexMobile> oh, curse just
being stupid
L246[14:23:32] <TheUnknownFew> what is the
channel again that I use for the !gf commands?
L247[14:23:41] <ghz|afk> #mcpbot
L248[14:23:45] <ghz|afk> or do it in a pm
to MCPBot_Reborn
L249[14:24:10] <TheUnknownFew> nvm
L250[14:24:25] <TheUnknownFew>
thanks
L252[14:25:32] <ghz|afk> are you trying to
draw a button?
L253[14:25:37] <ghz|afk> buttons are
assumed to be fixed height
L254[14:25:42] <ghz|afk> if you want a
shorter or taller button
L255[14:25:53] <ghz|afk> you have to use a
custom GuiButton class, the vanilla one won't do
L256[14:26:13] <ghz|afk> I think forge may
have one
L257[14:26:18] <ghz|afk> check for classes
extending GuiButton
L258[14:26:20] <TheUnknownFew> yeah that
is what i figured. I'm just tinkering around with it
L259[14:26:54] <ghz|afk> GuiButtonExt
seems to be it
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L263[14:42:39] <TheUnknownFew> Although I
cannot get my button to display in the creative menu
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L266[14:45:40] <williewillus> !gp
p_192838_2_
L267[14:45:48] <williewillus> !sp
p_192838_2_ partialTicks
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L270[15:07:27] <diesieben07> just ran
"clean setup" in my forge dev workspace and i am getting
some random error about "Your Access Transformers be
broke!" - is that a known thing?
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L273[15:11:53] <ghz|afk> diesieben07: I
haven't seen anyone complain about that
L274[15:12:09] <diesieben07> hm. i am
gonna try clone the repo from scratch
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L277[15:17:55] <joazlazer> For some
reason, this code doesn't seem to be working
L279[15:18:09] ***
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L280[15:18:16] <joazlazer> Does anybody
know why?
L281[15:18:20] <diesieben07> cloning the
repo again seems to have worked...
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L283[15:19:02] <barteks2x> does forge do
anything to prevent accidentally loading forge modded world on
vanilla?
L284[15:19:05] <joazlazer> It's supposed
to convert mouse coordinates in screen space to world space
coordinates
L285[15:19:15] <barteks2x> or is it
assumed to be entirely on the user to deal with it?
L286[15:20:34] <Mraof> I mean, a forge
modded world could still work fine on vanilla I think, there can be
mods that don't affect the world
L287[15:20:51] <PaleoCrafter> diesieben07,
I know that there are issues with ATs when using dependency ATs in
normal dev environments
L288[15:21:02] <barteks2x> but in my case
vanilla loading the world may corrupt it to a point where it's near
irrecoverable
L289[15:21:05] <diesieben07> nope, just a
normal forge dev workspace
L290[15:21:06] ***
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L291[15:21:09] <PaleoCrafter> when they
were changed, anyways
L292[15:21:23] <PaleoCrafter> maybe a
recent PR added an AT line and that messed up FG?
L293[15:21:26] <diesieben07> @bartex, i am
not sure how forge could do anything there, after all Forge cannot
influence what vanilla does
L294[15:21:28] <diesieben07> maybe
L295[15:21:34] <Mraof> Yeah that can be a
problem, I've done that before
L296[15:21:39] <diesieben07>
*barteks
L297[15:21:49] <barteks2x> well, probably
could abuse the version number stored in NBT
L298[15:21:53] <barteks2x> but that's all
I can think of
L299[15:22:02] <barteks2x> (making vanilla
think it's newer version than it really is)
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L303[15:42:59] <PaleoCrafter> tbf, ghz,
they forgot the part where you also have to carry your fibre cable
and your entire workstation because you'd otherwise notice that you
can't survive as an actual hermit without the Internet :P
L304[15:44:03] <ghz|afk> XD
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L310[16:07:05] <barteks2x> whyforge
doesn't show a warning when trying to use @Mod.EventBusSubscriber
when a non-static method has @SubscribeEvent... just spent over an
hour trying to figure out why my code isn't working
L311[16:07:23] <barteks2x> *almost an
hour
L312[16:08:02] <ghz|afk> because it can't
know
L313[16:08:12] <ghz|afk> if you'll also
call MinecraftForge.EVENT_BUS.register
L314[16:08:26] <ghz|afk> all
@Mod.EventBusSubscriber does
L315[16:08:36] <ghz|afk> is tell forge to
call .register(TheClass.class) for you
L316[16:08:49] <ghz|afk> and when called
with a class, it only looks for static methods
L317[16:09:04] <ghz|afk> if you would want
a warning for that
L318[16:09:21] <ghz|afk> you can see if
that forge plugin for idea has it
L319[16:09:23] <ghz|afk> and PR if not
;P
L320[16:09:55] <barteks2x> I have too
outdated IDEA to update to latest version of that plugin
L321[16:10:13] <barteks2x>
(2017.1.2)
L322[16:10:28] <ghz|afk> can't update to
.2.1?
L323[16:10:41] <barteks2x> I would need to
do it via package manager
L324[16:11:00] <ghz|afk> oh
L325[16:11:13] <ghz|afk> yeah that's one
of the reasons why I can't be bothered to use linux ;P
L326[16:11:23] <ghz|afk> having a package
manager is nice
L327[16:11:44] <barteks2x> but then
something like discord comes and just outrigth refuses to start
when not u to date
L328[16:12:09] <ghz|afk> being sortof
forced to do almost everything through the package manager because
there isn't a truly standard set of libraries that are exactly the
same in all installations so getting a generic executable isn't
usually a choice... nothx.
L329[16:12:50] <barteks2x> well, it is
fully my choice of doing things the hard way here
L330[16:13:04] <barteks2x> with something
like debian I wouln't even have IDEA in package manager
L331[16:13:32] <barteks2x> also just found
that the latest IDEA version available is
~2017.2.1.172.3544.35
L332[16:13:38] <ghz|afk> i'm also a fan of
Visual Studio, and the Windows 7+ taskbar
L333[16:13:46] <ghz|afk> so I wouldn't
switch regardless
L334[16:13:52] <ghz|afk> but that is one
of the annoyances for me
L335[16:13:59] <barteks2x> there is no way
anyone ever convinces me to use VS
L336[16:14:06] <ghz|afk> XD
L337[16:14:18] <ghz|afk> VS is nice,
VS+ReSharper is awesome
L338[16:14:24] <ghz|afk> there are a few
things intellij does that VS can't do
L339[16:14:27] <ghz|afk> but besides
that
L340[16:14:32] <barteks2x> Maybe I was
just turned off by the C++ experience ith it
L341[16:14:33] <ghz|afk> it's by far the
best C/C++ IDE out there
L342[16:14:56] <barteks2x> at least
compared to java IDEs
L343[16:15:22] <ghz|afk> and pretty much
the only decent C# IDE, but then again the only alternative is
MonoDevelop
L344[16:15:50] <PaleoCrafter> I wonder how
CLion fares
L345[16:15:57] <ghz|afk> keep in mind C++
refactoring is on a whole other level from C# or Java
L346[16:16:14] <ghz|afk> ReSharper for C++
can rename standard stuff
L347[16:16:19] <ghz|afk> like method args,
function names, class names
L348[16:16:23] <PaleoCrafter> Ey, you be
forgetting about Rider for C# :P
L349[16:16:29] <ghz|afk> but the moment
you ntroduce macros
L350[16:16:37] <ghz|afk> specially macros
that can build indentifiers from bits and pieces
L351[16:16:40] <ghz|afk> everything goesto
hell
L352[16:16:48] <ghz|afk> #macro
MakeName(a,b) a ## b
L353[16:17:00] <ghz|afk> MakeName (asdf,
hjkl) -> compiles into asdfhjkl
L354[16:17:21] <ghz|afk> and those can
come from other macros, that come from other macros
L355[16:17:26] <ghz|afk> so yeah ;P
L356[16:17:33] <ghz|afk> C++ refactoring
is HARD
L357[16:17:51] <ghz|afk> keeping that in
mind, VS+ReSharper is my favorite IDE.
L358[16:18:08] <ghz|afk> PaleoCrafter:
never heard of that
L359[16:18:16] <PaleoCrafter> It's
relatively new
L360[16:18:22] <barteks2x> well, that was
my main reason to hate VS for C and C++. Netbeans with C/C++ plugin
had better refactoring support than VS by default at the time I
used it
L361[16:18:26] <PaleoCrafter> but it's
basically just ReSharper with a IDEA frontend
L362[16:18:33] <ghz|afk> ah
L363[16:18:38] <ghz|afk> "IntelliJ
for C#"
L364[16:18:46] <PaleoCrafter> like...
literally, if you can trust their explanation
L365[16:18:55] <ghz|afk> I guess people
who come from Java may choose that
L366[16:19:28] <ghz|afk> barteks2x: it's
getting better, vs2015 and vs2017 have better C++ refactoring out
of the box
L367[16:19:39] <ghz|afk> but it still
can't compare with ReSharper or other dedicated extensions
L368[16:20:13] <ghz|afk> PaleoCrafter:
yeah I guess they had to write a C# parsing engine for
ReSharper
L369[16:20:22] <barteks2x> so my question
is: why isn't such thing a default? I doubt anyone wouldn't find it
useful
L370[16:20:29] <ghz|afk> so they just had
to port that to IntelliJ
L371[16:20:37] <ghz|afk> barteks2x:
man-hours
L372[16:20:48] <PaleoCrafter> well, it's
literally running ReSharper in the background, as far as I
understood it
L373[16:20:54] <ghz|afk> it would cost
Microsoft quite a lot of money to implement more advanced
refactoring
L374[16:21:07] <PaleoCrafter> the IntelliJ
platform is just providing the frontend
L375[16:21:10] <ghz|afk> so I presume they
dedicate some number of hours a year to it
L376[16:21:26] ⇦
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L377[16:21:27] <ghz|afk> but not enough to
get advanced refactoring done all at once
L378[16:21:42] <ghz|afk> PaleoCrafter: so
like the complete opposite to forge modding in VS?
L379[16:21:48] <PaleoCrafter> I
guess?
L380[16:21:51] <ghz|afk> (which was
eclipse running in the background)
L381[16:22:07] <PaleoCrafter> ah, well,
not the complete opposite then, more like the analogue :P
L382[16:22:31] ⇦
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L383[16:22:55] <PaleoCrafter> also,
barteks2x, to include ReSharper (or any other extension for that
matter) would mean buying it from Jetbrains which Jetbrain's
probably not willing to do
L384[16:23:25] <PaleoCrafter> and just
shipping the extension with the IDE by default would be complicated
since it's another commercial product
L385[16:25:48] <jamierocks> [22:15:22]
ghz|afk: and pretty much the only decent C# IDE, but then again the
only alternative is MonoDevelop
L386[16:25:53] <barteks2x> All my other
complaints about it are pre-installation, mostly MS being so
confusing about so many different versions, editions, licenses and
stuff
L387[16:25:54] <jamierocks> rider
L388[16:26:27] <PaleoCrafter> jamierocks,
pls
L389[16:26:56] <jamierocks> lol, I used it
back when it was EAP, it seemed nice
L390[16:27:10] <jamierocks> but tbh I'm
not too big a fan of .NET
L391[16:27:22] <ghz|afk> I am.
L392[16:27:45] <ghz|afk> every time I find
some time to do some C# coding, it just feels so much nicer
L393[16:28:02] <barteks2x> C# is nice.
.net being so closely tied to windows isn;t
L394[16:28:04] <ghz|afk> the class library
is much cleaner, the language is a lot fancier, etc
L395[16:28:23] <ghz|afk> .NET isn't THAT
closely tied to windows
L396[16:28:24] <ghz|afk> some parts
are
L397[16:28:47] <ghz|afk> basically all the
System.Windows.* parts
L398[16:28:52] <barteks2x> I've never seen
being able to run anything on mono that didn't explicitly claim
mono compatibility
L399[16:29:04] <jamierocks> well it was
designed without the ideal of cross-compatibility
L400[16:29:11] <ghz|afk> more often than
not, that's because the projects use PInvoke
L401[16:29:16] <ghz|afk> since it's so
easy to work with
L402[16:29:18] <ghz|afk> unlike JNI
;P
L403[16:29:35] <jamierocks> JNI isn't that
difficult to work with
L404[16:29:35] <ghz|afk> so projects end
up calling natives quite often
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L406[16:29:47] <ghz|afk> you haveto setup
a C++ counterpart
L407[16:29:55] <ghz|afk> you can't just
link to... opengl32, and call exports from it
L408[16:30:03] <ghz|afk> so far as I
know
L409[16:30:16] <jamierocks> well you'd
just use lwjgl :p
L410[16:30:30] <ghz|afk> yeah but hat
means shipping natives etc
L411[16:31:02] <ghz|afk> meanwhile on C#
you can just use a single annotation to load and bind a
function
L412[16:31:07] ***
diesieben07 is now known as diesieben|away
L413[16:31:18] <ghz|afk> that's why I say
it's much easier
L414[16:31:39] <ghz|afk> the entry bar is
lower since it doesn't require the native side to becompatible with
it
L415[16:32:14] <jamierocks> honestly IMO
the lower the entry bar is, means a bad thing - inexperienced devs
will do bad shit
L416[16:32:22] <ghz|afk> yup
L417[16:32:32] <ghz|afk> it's a
double-edged sword
L418[16:32:34] <barteks2x> and using mono
really feels like using wine for some reason
L419[16:32:57] <jamierocks> can't help but
think of coremods having said that :p
L420[16:32:57] <ghz|afk> barteks2x:
because in both cases, they have to emulate windows semantics
L421[16:33:22] <ghz|afk> lol
L422[16:33:37] <ghz|afk> as ugly as
coremods are, I would still choose a mod using ASM over a mod using
natives any day
L423[16:34:11] <ghz|afk> (my opinion
wouldn't change if mc was done in C#, calling native code unless
strictly necessary is cheating ;P)
L424[16:36:17] ***
PaleoCrafter is now known as PaleOff
L425[16:38:52] <Mraof> Cheating?
L426[16:39:05] <ghz|afk> yeah
L427[16:39:50] <ghz|afk> I don't like to
call natives for the same reason I don't like to use
cheats/trainers in games: it feels like giving up and admitting
that you can't do it the proper way
L428[16:40:31] <ghz|afk> in some cases it
IS the answer, if due to limitations, the language or platform
can't do what you need, or it would be too slow
L429[16:40:41] <barteks2x> like in case og
LWJGL
L430[16:40:46] <ghz|afk> exactly
L431[16:41:37] <Mraof> I've considered
using natives for a mod just because it's more fun to code in rust
than java for me
L432[16:41:57] <Mraof> But I doubt I ever
actually will unless I need to for whatever reason
L433[16:42:06] <ghz|afk> I don't see how
that would work
L434[16:42:15] <ghz|afk> you could
implement some of the logic I guess
L435[16:42:20] <Mraof> Hmm?
L436[16:42:23] <ghz|afk> but things like
"class MyItem extends Item" ?
L437[16:42:32] <Mraof> Oh, yeah, not
entirely in rust of course
L438[16:42:54] <Mraof> Just like certain
systems and such that barely need to touch Minecraft stuff
L439[16:43:01] <ghz|afk> if minecraft gets
properly data-driven someday
L440[16:43:05] <ghz|afk> and you can have
an item json
L441[16:43:07] <ghz|afk> with like
L442[16:43:54] <ghz|afk>
"events": { "use": { "action":
"yourmod:invoke_rust", "function":
"whatever", ... } }
L443[16:44:11] <ghz|afk> then it may be
feasible to have a thin wrapper with just the logic
L444[16:44:37] <barteks2x> well, I
considered making native noise generator called using JNI to fill a
whole array
L445[16:44:49] <barteks2x> but gave up
after 5 hours of trying to set it up and failing
L446[16:45:12] <ghz|afk> that seems like
one of the most sensible uses for JNI I have heard ;p
L447[16:46:28] <barteks2x> would be even
more fun to actually make C version of MC terrain generator and
call it using JNI
L448[16:46:40] <barteks2x> and have chunks
stored offheap to make it more feasable
L449[16:46:51] <ghz|afk> lol
L450[16:47:08] <ghz|afk> I just imagined
taking all of the rendering code from MCPE/Win10
L451[16:47:14] <ghz|afk> and putting that
on a JNI library
L452[16:47:23] <ghz|afk> keeping things
like Item and such
L453[16:47:27] <ghz|afk> on java
L454[16:47:30] <ghz|afk> but replacing all
of the rendering
L455[16:47:38] <barteks2x> mojang could
very weel step by step make the java version into C version
L456[16:47:39] <ghz|afk> and worldgen, and
so on
L457[16:47:51] <barteks2x> if they really
wanted to
L458[16:47:58] <ghz|afk> leaving only the
moddable stuff in java
L459[16:48:02] <ghz|afk> and calling it
the modding api
L460[16:48:03] <ghz|afk> ;p
L461[16:48:39] <barteks2x> and then
someone like me comes trying to make cubic chunks and I would have
to do a whole new level of hackery to do that
L462[16:50:52] <ghz|afk> or you'd be fully
discouraged and give up before wasting any time
L463[16:50:52] <ghz|afk> ;P
L464[16:51:54] <barteks2x> I rarely give
up if I have even the slightest idea for how to go forwards
L465[16:52:35] <ghz|afk> heh, good for
you
L466[16:52:58] <ghz|afk> I have some very
limited exprience with messing around with native code
injections
L467[16:53:17] <ghz|afk> so based on that,
the moment I considered how modding on MCPE/Win10 would work
L468[16:53:43] <ghz|afk> I just shuddered
and thought "I'll let take on that mess..."
L469[16:54:40] <barteks2x> Well, since the
code is just x86 machine code, and can be modified at runtime, it's
entirely possible to even have the equivalent of coremods
L470[16:55:00] <ghz|afk> sure
L471[16:55:08] <ghz|afk> but for any
actual non-coremod-like modding
L472[16:55:13] <ghz|afk> you need the
equivalent of forge
L473[16:55:18] <ghz|afk> doing its own
injections
L474[16:55:23] <ghz|afk> and providing a
public API to work with
L475[16:55:26] <Mraof> I have no clue how
I'd even distribute native stuff for mods
L476[16:55:43] <ghz|afk> since you
wouldn't even have reflection
L477[16:55:51] <ghz|afk> everything would
have to be provided statically
L478[16:55:53] <barteks2x> it would be a
whole lot more fun debugging inter-mod incompatibilities that cause
segfault in some completely unrelated code
L479[16:56:16] <Mraof> Haha
L480[16:57:26] <barteks2x> any 1.11.2
custom-world-type mod that works in dev envieonment?
L481[16:58:44] <barteks2x> I doubt quark
or biomes o plenty will work
L482[16:59:06] <barteks2x> and RTG is
1.10.2 :(
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L488[17:47:47] <LexMobile> Is hacking into
win10 version possible? Yes. Have I done things like that before?
Yes. Do I want to/Should We have to do it? Hell fucking no.
L489[17:48:21] <LexMobile> It wouldnt be
hard on their end to shove a few hooks to get people started. They
are working on defining data driven systems. But meh.
L490[17:48:57] <ghz|afk> didn't I hear
something about C#-based "mods" on MCWin10?
L491[17:49:35] <LexMobile> Yes, no idea
how thats coming And it wont be mods. It'll be plugins
L492[17:49:49] <ghz|afk> yeah hence the
quotes
L493[17:54:56] <barteks2x> I got biomes o
plenty working with cubic chunks. And Quark's realiztic world
:D
L494[17:56:34] <ghz|afk> nice
L495[17:57:35] <barteks2x> vanilla world
height being 256 makes it much harder to ptone it with
screenshot
L496[17:57:41] <barteks2x> *prove
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L499[18:00:31] <barteks2x> over the last
few months I did a few "impossible" things, like optifine
compatibility, custom world type compatibility and smoothly working
server (as long as not generating new terrain)
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L508[18:20:41] <Mraof> That's cool
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L520[18:44:12] <LexMobile>
"impossible" - Completely possible, just really annoying
and a PITA to do.
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L522[18:53:09] <barteks2x> at one point I
thought each of those is going to me much harder than it reallu
turned out to be. Optifine compatibiity was literally providing one
alternate mixin, Custom world types was just getting the GUI part
done. Smoothly working server came on it's own.
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