OCLogs: 2024-05-13.log

Stuff goes here

L1[00:20:10] <Eddi|zuHause> !mission

L2[00:20:10] <LunchBot> You do a Crazy Ivan to search for suclearnubs. You brake so fast that you break fast.

L3[00:20:31] <Eddi|zuHause> just one ping!

L4[00:23:37] <XXCoder> lol

L5[00:23:40] <XXCoder> ;mission

L6[00:23:40] <LunchBot> You start singing. You set the network record for "longest time using IRC before realising there's more than one channel".

L7[00:23:55] <XXCoder> well duh was busy singing

L8[00:45:18] <X> Eddi|zuHause: .2km from what? Another asteroid?

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L11[01:07:02] <Eddi|zuHause> no. encounter with the asteroid

L12[01:08:00] <Eddi|zuHause> asteroid is currently on collission course with kerbin, and the right size for the "bring an asteroid into orbit" contract i just got

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L31[07:47:33] <Eddi|zuHause> aw crap, i somehow missed the reentry maneuver for my science return probe... and the next orbit around it probably runs out of power

L32[07:53:15] <Althego> catch it?

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L34[08:30:52] <Mat2ch> X: On the 16th there will be a financial report by TakeTwo. That will probably show what will happen

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L37[08:40:46] <Eddi|zuHause> so, i just got krackened while docking

L38[08:44:51] <Eddi|zuHause> no clue what the game thinks happens there

L39[08:49:38] <Eddi|zuHause> nope, whenever docking, it explodes

L40[08:49:51] <Althego> lol

L41[08:51:21] <Eddi|zuHause> if i could make a video...

L42[08:52:02] <Mat2ch> screen recorder exists. :)

L43[08:52:07] <Mat2ch> But then you have to upload it somewhere

L44[08:52:19] <Mat2ch> and it probably shakes itself apart. KSP does this sometimes :(

L45[08:52:31] <Mat2ch> disable all SAS shortly before docking. Sometimes this helps

L46[08:52:45] <Mat2ch> and maybe turn the docking force down as well

L47[08:54:17] <Eddi|zuHause> it explodes during the connection, while it makes it one ship

L48[08:57:20] <Eddi|zuHause> i've absolutely no clue how to even try to fix this

L49[08:57:25] <Eddi|zuHause> it's perfectly reproducable

L50[09:01:58] <Eddi|zuHause> i'll try taking it apart and reassemble it mid flight

L51[09:08:56] <Eddi|zuHause> nope, didn't work either

L52[09:31:00] <Eddi|zuHause> i wish you could see this...

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L56[10:06:28] <Eddi|zuHause> still no clue what's happening

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L58[10:17:38] <Eddi|zuHause> this is the kind of "why am i even playing this game?" bug

L59[10:18:39] <Pinkbeast> What's in the Alt-F12 log?

L60[10:22:28] <Althego> because you were born too early to explore space

L61[10:23:25] <Pinkbeast> Tereshkova was born in 1937 so if that's so, Eddi|zuHause must be getting on a bit

L62[10:26:25] <Althego> hehe

L63[10:27:37] <Althego> out of billions of people only about what 200 went to space

L64[10:28:28] <Pinkbeast> I'm in space! I'm just travelling through it on a very large generation ship made from all-natural materials

L65[10:30:34] <Althego> and actual space exploration was stuck for about 70 years

L66[10:30:39] <Althego> er 50

L67[10:30:44] <Althego> why did i write 70

L68[10:31:32] <darsie> off by one error

L69[10:32:19] <darsie> Umm ... 20 off by one errors.

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L71[10:32:42] <darsie> Must have happened in a loop.

L72[10:32:53] <Althego> probably because no serious explorion since the 70s, and that somehow turned the 50 into 70

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L74[10:37:21] <Eddi|zuHause> !mission

L75[10:37:21] <LunchBot> A probe of unknown origin approaches the KSC and hails you. You use the leftover fuel to light a bonfire. Rather than igniting, the wood is merely scattered over a large radius.

L76[10:38:24] <Eddi|zuHause> not sure whether that's a good or bad thing :p

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L78[10:48:02] <Eddi|zuHause> Pinkbeast: i see nothing useful in that log

L79[10:49:22] <Eddi|zuHause> something explodes on docking, but i've definitely docked with this before

L80[11:03:30] <Eddi|zuHause> not getting anywhere...

L81[11:05:22] <Althego> but what eplodes? a clipped part?

L82[11:06:49] <Eddi|zuHause> dunno

L83[11:07:12] <Eddi|zuHause> i tried detaching a few parts, but nothing helps

L84[11:07:23] <Eddi|zuHause> and i'm getting confused with the amount of quicksaves

L85[11:07:44] <Althego> doesnt the normal log say what explodes?

L86[11:08:05] <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but that's like 20 entries

L87[11:08:22] <Althego> and why? collided wit hsomething?

L88[11:08:52] <Eddi|zuHause> no, just "detached" and then "crashed into other parts"

L89[11:11:48] <Eddi|zuHause> also, something i noticed, with every loading operation the game gets slower...

L90[11:18:45] <Mat2ch> yes, that's "normal". Sadly.

L91[11:19:48] <Althego> after 10-12 hours of playing you get to the point where it is faster to restart the game than to wait for another load

L92[11:20:09] <Althego> i think every scene change adds to this

L93[11:22:01] <Mat2ch> which makes testing crafts extremly tedious

L94[11:28:46] <packbart> the KSP Community Fixes fix a few of these memory leaks

L95[11:41:29] <sandbox> that reminds me of the time I got the error: Vessel Loading Error Vessel Jebediah Kerman was not loaded because it had the following parts missing: unknownPart

L96[11:47:17] <Eddi|zuHause> that sounds like a missing mod

L97[11:48:45] <sandbox> I can't remember what caused it, and I don't think any mods were involved

L98[11:55:57] <FLHerne> .outcome add Vessel Loading Error: Vessel Jebediah Kerman was not loaded because it had the following parts missing: unknownPart.

L99[11:55:57] <LunchBot> Added outcome: Vessel Loading Error: Vessel Jebediah Kerman was not loaded because it had the following parts missing: unknownPart.

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L101[11:57:54] <Mat2ch> hehe

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L103[11:57:57] <Mat2ch> !mission

L104[11:57:57] <LunchBot> You install KSP on Linux in a VM in OSX in a VM in Windows ME. The Kraken now lives under the launchpad.

L105[11:58:10] <Mat2ch> And hopefully gets you in your sleep.

L106[12:00:26] <Althego> hehe

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L108[12:01:00] <Althego> i, as many other in my age, have a free os/2 warp demo cd, which was distributed in some computer magazines back in the day

L109[12:21:11] <Eddi|zuHause> i think i had an OS/2 manual somewhere

L110[12:21:55] <Eddi|zuHause> i have a windows 3.1 manual

L111[12:23:39] <darsie> .outcome add KSP2 becomes free open source software.

L112[12:23:39] <LunchBot> Added outcome: KSP2 becomes free open source software.

L113[12:24:16] <Althego> and this is the most disgusting thing. if they fail ksp2 and still sit on the ip, and not release it

L114[12:25:07] <Eddi|zuHause> that's, however, the way more likely outcome

L115[12:25:10] <darsie> .mission add You crowdfund for KSP2 to become free and open source software.

L116[12:25:10] <LunchBot> Added mission: You crowdfund for KSP2 to become free and open source software.

L117[12:25:35] <darsie> How much would we need?

L118[12:25:45] <Eddi|zuHause> !outcome add KSP3 is confirmed.

L119[12:25:46] <LunchBot> Added outcome: KSP3 is confirmed.

L120[12:28:05] <Althego> can you argue in court what a kerbal is?

L121[12:28:28] <darsie> I can.

L122[12:28:33] <Althego> so i mean, does the ip include the definition of kerbal, and is that copyrightable?

L123[12:29:12] <Althego> the name kerbal space program is probably under some restriction

L124[12:29:18] <darsie> wikipedia didn't accept a KSP screenshot without permission from ... the owners.

L125[12:29:51] <darsie> s/permission/release

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L128[12:35:24] <darsie> How many bought KSP1?

L129[12:36:15] <darsie> ChatGPT: As of my last update in January 2022, it's estimated that Kerbal Space Program (KSP) had sold over 5 million copies across all platforms (PC, consoles, etc.).

L130[12:36:49] <darsie> If that's true we might crowdfund 10 MUSD.

L131[12:37:07] <Althego> not really. you need to crowdfund developer and artist time

L132[12:37:25] <darsie> People created mods without paying.

L133[12:37:30] <Althego> by buying normal sales this way you also fund profits

L134[12:37:46] <darsie> getting paid.

L135[12:56:58] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm pretty sure the concept of "kerbal" is easily protectable, so it probably is

L136[13:16:41] <sandbox> I wish I could remember what I was doing when I took these screenshots

L137[13:19:26] <packbart> Star Kerbal

L138[13:19:52] <sandbox> there are pictures of a stretched kerbal, then the error message picture was (assuming the time is accurate) taken 2 minutes later

L139[13:26:33] <Eddi|zuHause> hm, i messed around with mods, maybe that'll make it worse...

L140[13:29:16] <Pinkbeast> darsie: if that's true> hints it might not be include the word "ChatGPT"

L141[13:30:37] <Eddi|zuHause> ChatGPT is probably the worst source for "facts"

L142[13:30:49] <Pinkbeast> Well, I could _deliberately_ lie

L143[13:31:37] <Eddi|zuHause> but ChatGPT is literally created to make up answers out of thin air without any value of truth

L144[13:32:01] <Pinkbeast> Oh, indeed. But it might get it right by accident, whereas if I deliberately lied, I would be more sure to get it wrong.

L145[13:32:14] <sandbox> it looks like I did upload the error message to steam, but not the other ones

L146[13:32:35] <Eddi|zuHause> that's like saying a stopped clock is better than a wrong clock, because the stopped clock is right twice per day :p

L147[13:32:38] <sandbox> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2492256706517729979/E85254B33ACC802D34D070B3830C3C97F4B6CBD9/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

L148[13:32:45] <sandbox> does that work?

L149[13:33:00] <packbart> The original Kerbal Space Program has sold-in nearly 4 million units worldwide, and earned a Metacritic rating of 88 and a Steam user score of 91%." reads the earning report. ( Take-Two Interactive earnings report for the fiscal third quarter of 2020, which ended on December 31, 2019)

L150[13:33:05] <packbart> sez my Internets

L151[13:33:31] <Pinkbeast> Eddi|zuHause: I think a stopped clock is better than a clock that is intentionally trying to mislead you

L152[13:33:38] <sandbox> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/785229875304457366/12AFB574BAD35DC6295AD2916A3B9F4438424C68/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

L153[13:34:22] <sandbox> from 2015 apparently

L154[13:34:56] <packbart> Jeb's missing unknown parts. Who knew

L155[13:34:58] <packbart> :)

L156[13:35:04] <Pinkbeast> I see both images and the second has the message

L157[13:35:49] <sandbox> Jeb's unknown part is missing

L158[13:48:00] <Eddi|zuHause> so, it actually docked

L159[13:52:38] <sandbox> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2492256706517814146/12DC6CFB95A472808E73531C1C7E569EC5829D5A/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

L160[13:55:55] <packbart> NaN tons. oh my

L161[14:11:19] <sandbox> this is from before they fixed the missing texture https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2492256706517866027/F62130C11F9E5CBC2FE102E81465FFD53E56A011/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

L162[14:13:54] <sandbox> https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/2492256706517904607/545CF35BD962F42A8E7EC246F9B71A21CF844480/?imw=5000&imh=5000&ima=fit&impolicy=Letterbox&imcolor=%23000000&letterbox=false

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L167[14:28:24] <Eddi|zuHause> somehow this heat shield isn't shielding

L168[14:45:30] <darsie> Whidch one?

L169[14:47:51] <Eddi|zuHause> 2.5m heat shield, but the probe core directly behind it overheats

L170[14:52:51] <packbart> it probably gets heated by transmission from the shield. maybe try putting a small fuel tank in between?

L171[14:53:12] <packbart> or use the thermal debug part window info, maybe it provides some insight

L172[14:53:37] <darsie> Or a battery or reaction wheel.

L173[15:17:16] <Eddi|zuHause> well, it's kinda too late to redesign this ship :p

L174[15:18:48] <darsie> But you kinda have to, if it doesn't work.

L175[15:19:30] <darsie> But often there are solutions.

L176[15:21:37] <Eddi|zuHause> i'm currently trying to do a shallower reentry, and maybe ditch the heat shield entirely

L177[15:22:08] <darsie> Sometimes a steeper reentry helps.

L178[15:23:15] <Eddi|zuHause> i have not much hope with what i've seen so far

L179[16:02:23] <Mat2ch> https://hackaday.com/2024/05/13/youve-probably-never-considered-taking-an-airship-to-orbit/

L180[16:02:43] <Mat2ch> I'm not sure if that is the best way to get into orbit, but, uh, let's do it anyway

L181[16:21:42] <FLHerne> What are you trying to enter?

L182[16:21:53] <FLHerne> (and from what trajectory?)

L183[16:22:45] <FLHerne> multiple aerobraking passes to lower from high return trajectories into a circular-ish orbit can help

L184[16:30:52] <FLHerne> .outcome add The camera lens explodes. Returning it under warranty is impractical due to shipping costs.

L185[16:30:53] <LunchBot> Added outcome: The camera lens explodes. Returning it under warranty is impractical due to shipping costs.

L186[16:53:05] <Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm returning from mun, but i have very limited electrical power, so multiple passes take too long

L187[16:54:32] <Eddi|zuHause> everything except the probe core survives, but then i can't fire the chute

L188[17:16:31] <FLHerne> Eddi|zuHause: are you setting the probe core to hibernate, disabling reaction wheels, etc. when not absolutely required?

L189[17:16:51] <FLHerne> should be possible to stretch even a little EC quite a long time

L190[17:17:25] <FLHerne> unless the craft is passively unstable on re-entry and requires reaction wheels to not tumble and explode, which is a bad idea :p

L191[17:21:46] <FLHerne> (also, no solar?!)

L192[17:34:57] <Eddi|zuHause> yes. it's on hibernate

L193[17:35:55] <Eddi|zuHause> it was just supposed to get the science results back from mun, and i forgot the reentry time. not sure why, i should have had a maneuver planned

L194[17:36:21] <Eddi|zuHause> had i done that at the correct time, i would have plenty of ways to get out of this

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L197[18:47:11] <Eddi|zuHause> successfully sent a grabbing unit... now hopefully that will go better

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L202[18:53:35] <packbart> couldn't you stage the parachutes before the probe core explodes?

L203[18:54:03] <packbart> I sent science containers from the mun to Kerbin with just a heat shield and a parachute

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L206[19:42:37] <Eddi|zuHause> staging the chutes will just rip them off

L207[19:43:43] <Eddi|zuHause> maybe you can tweak some chute settings

L208[20:12:35] <Althego> if you set the chute correctly and deploy it in space, it is possible it only opens once it is slow enough

L209[20:12:41] <Althego> or low enough

L210[20:12:42] <nshire> hmmmm my orbit line disappeared

L211[20:13:02] <nshire> it says "cannot quicksave while moving over the surface" but I'm at 10km over the moon going 700m/s

L212[20:13:03] <Eddi|zuHause> !mission

L213[20:13:03] <LunchBot> You experiment with dozens of small engines on your craft, EVE online style. And you would have gotten away with it too... if someone didn't speak Welsh.

L214[20:13:33] <nshire> and I'm getting some pretty extreme camera shake

L215[20:13:43] <nshire> game is counting me as "landed" still

L216[20:13:56] <Eddi|zuHause> you're about to get krakened

L217[20:14:54] <nshire> is 700m/s enough to escape from the mun?

L218[20:14:59] <nshire> gotta do this manually lol

L219[20:16:05] <nshire> says my apoapsis is -900km under the mun

L220[20:17:16] <Mat2ch> 700 m/s will be tight

L221[20:17:16] <nshire> well hopefully 1km/s is enough for escape velocity

L222[20:17:38] <Mat2ch> but if you are not in a valley, it could suffice

L223[20:19:04] <nshire> I might be ok

L224[20:19:15] <nshire> assuming no space krakens bite

L225[20:19:49] <nshire> https://i.imgur.com/sNZNfkC.jpeg

L226[20:20:50] <darsie> nshire: From orbit or surface?

L227[20:21:06] <nshire> surface

L228[20:21:14] <nshire> was going 750ms at surface

L229[20:21:25] <nshire> then boosted a bit to 1000 to make sure

L230[20:21:39] <nshire> i seem to be on an escape trajectory but i have no orbit line

L231[20:22:00] <darsie> Hmm, might work. It's about 600 to orbit and 230 IIRC to Kerbin.

L232[20:22:36] <darsie> check out the delta v maps in the topic.

L233[20:23:15] <Mat2ch> the orbit line sometimes disappears when you're between bodies

L234[20:23:26] <nshire> no it thinks I'm landed

L235[20:23:30] <nshire> it never displayed the line

L236[20:23:38] <Mat2ch> oh

L237[20:23:49] <Mat2ch> great

L238[20:23:50] <nshire> now at 1000km above surface

L239[20:24:13] <darsie> You should always be on a line in map, unless you're landed.

L240[20:24:28] <nshire> refer to previous screenshot

L241[20:24:28] <nshire> https://i.imgur.com/sNZNfkC.jpeg

L242[20:24:59] <nshire> should be approaching the edge of the soi

L243[20:25:06] <nshire> maybe that will force it to update

L244[20:26:42] <darsie> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Mun Escape velocity 807.08 m/s

L245[20:27:23] <nshire> Sphere of Influence 2 429 559.1 m

L246[20:27:24] <darsie> This will be a bit less if you're not at the surface.

L247[20:27:45] <nshire> 1800 km right now

L248[20:28:32] <darsie> ve=sqrt(2GM/r) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escape_velocity

L249[20:29:28] <darsie> Escape velocity is independent of direction (unless you hit ground). So should really be ecape speed.

L250[20:29:55] <darsie> r is from the center, not from the surface.

L251[20:30:20] <nshire> ok I have left the mun soi

L252[20:30:27] <nshire> low landed on kearth

L253[20:30:35] <darsie> kearth?

L254[20:30:35] <nshire> 11000km above surface

L255[20:30:38] <nshire> kerbin

L256[20:31:38] <darsie> If you want to get back to Kerbin you should do that in a single burn near the surface of the Mun, or you'll need more fuel.

L257[20:31:59] <darsie> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberth_effect

L258[20:33:34] <Eddi|zuHause> i usually enter a very close orbit, then look for the minimal burn towards kerbin along that orbit

L259[20:34:12] <Eddi|zuHause> so i make a prograde maneuver, and then move it around where PE is the lowest, then adjust that PE to about 40km

L260[20:34:16] <nshire> I am aware of the oberth effect

L261[20:34:33] <nshire> problem is i have to completely eyeball my orbit with no aids other than where I'm pointing and my speed

L262[20:38:32] <darsie> https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png says you need 310 m/s from LMO to Kerbin.

L263[20:40:50] <nshire> I switched to infinite fuel and am now burning directly at the surface

L264[20:40:54] <nshire> it wont let me use timewarp

L265[20:41:05] <nshire> and I don't have a week of irl time

L266[20:42:09] <darsie> If you look down at the Mun's North pole in the map and Kerbin is above Mun, you'd start your burn at about the 2 o'clock position.

L267[20:42:40] <darsie> 1:30?

L268[20:43:01] <nshire> going down at 10km/s now

L269[20:43:13] <darsie> Got a trajectory?

L270[20:43:16] <nshire> nope

L271[20:44:11] <nshire> starting the retroburn now at 1000km

L272[20:44:23] <darsie> aerobrake?

L273[20:45:12] <nshire> 200,000km now and still going 9000ms

L274[20:45:14] <darsie> It's been a while that I started a new game, but I think you normally have a trajectory.

L275[20:45:16] <nshire> this isnt going to go well

L276[20:45:20] ⇦ Quits: bildramer (~bildramer@2a02:587:6211:e00:3635:2b8a:c6ea:9c17) (Ping timeout: 183 seconds)

L277[20:45:27] <nshire> yes... that is the whole problem

L278[20:45:30] <nshire> I have no trajectory

L279[20:46:37] <nshire> damn even with all the cheats on I crashed into the surface at 1.5 km/s

L280[20:46:49] <nshire> was trying to test what would happen if I landed again

L281[20:47:23] ⇦ Quits: Althego (~Althego@86FF59E8.unconfigured.pool.telekom.hu) (Quit: HMI Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station Mercury)

L282[20:47:57] <nshire> darsie, I don't think you understand what is going on

L283[20:48:04] <darsie> ok

L284[20:48:06] <nshire> the game bugged out and counted me as landed on the mun the whole time

L285[20:48:20] <nshire> therefore it did not show a trajectory or any helpers since it thought I was landed

L286[20:48:24] <nshire> also would not let me timewarp

L287[20:48:39] <nshire> even as I was crashing into the ocean it counted me as landed on the mun.

L288[20:48:42] <darsie> Time warp usually works when landed.

L289[20:49:33] <nshire> "cannot timewarp when about to crash into terrian"

L290[20:49:41] <nshire> or some message like that

L291[20:59:31] <Eddi|zuHause> got 5k science from the mun return

L292[21:08:47] <Eddi|zuHause> and i still didn't get to upgrade R&D

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