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L1[00:14:50] <Eddi|zuHause> exactly
L2[00:59:58] ⇦
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L28[09:13:45] <darsie> Is 32 GB instead of
16 GB beneficial for KSP2?
L29[09:16:18] <Eddi|zuHause> probably
depends on mods
L30[09:16:33] <darsie> ok. Ship
complexity?
L31[09:17:26] <Mat2ch> Depends on how parts
are handled by KSP
L32[09:17:58] <Mat2ch> but I guess the part
count has an effect on how much memory is needed, but we're talking
about kilobytes, not megabytes
L33[09:18:26] <Mat2ch> Most memory is
needed for textures. Everything else is mathematical calculations
on a few numbers
L34[09:18:36] <darsie> ok
L35[09:18:47] <Eddi|zuHause> i'd think
about how detailed the models are, but definitely there are games
that would benefit more obviously from excess memory
L36[09:20:05] <darsie> Well, the used PC
I'm trying to buy has 40 GB, but it's 32+8, which is bad, so I want
2x16 or 2x8 instead.
L37[09:25:32] <Mat2ch> if you can go for
2x16, but look at the memory speed as well.
L38[09:25:50] <darsie> Yeah, I want
3200.
L39[09:26:22] <Mat2ch> Most modern
mainboards and ram have built in or support overclocking profiles
that are safe to use and will not destroy anything.
L40[09:26:32] <Mat2ch> *support for
L41[09:27:00] <darsie> Hmm, ok. This one
does, too.
L42[09:27:36] <Mat2ch> what cpu are you
getting?
L44[09:28:04] <darsie> Ryzen 5 3500
L45[09:28:08] <darsie> 3600*
L46[09:28:52] <Mat2ch> Ok, base clock is
3200 MHz
L47[09:33:34] <darsie> Got a clue what
would be a good speed?
L48[09:35:50] <Mat2ch> it depends on how
much money you actually want to spend.
L49[09:36:46] <Mat2ch> The price for 4600
MHz memory is double the amount than what you have to pay for 3200
MHz.
L50[09:39:05] <darsie> So technically all
speeds are ok, as in not harmful?
L51[09:40:36] <Mat2ch> you can always run
faster memory at slower speeds.
L52[09:41:18] <Mat2ch> But it also helps to
select a vendor and go to their website and see if they have tested
that memory with your processor (or a similar one)
L53[09:41:34] <Mat2ch> usually the also add
the overclocking profiles.
L54[09:41:40] <darsie> Ok, but that's
silly. Just overclocking might damage things.
L55[09:42:05] <Althego> modern cpus
basically overclock themselves if they have t he thermal
headroom
L56[09:42:10] <Mat2ch> The fun fact about
AMD cpus is that you usually can overlock the memory and the cpu
benefits from it, because the waiting time to access the memory is
lower.
L57[09:42:18] <Mat2ch> Althego: not the
memory controller.
L58[09:42:20] <Althego> and you cant win
much with it, unsless you go the liquid nitrogen route
L59[09:42:26] <Althego> the memory
controller too
L60[09:42:33] <Althego> that is the xmp
/expo settings
L61[09:42:56] <Mat2ch> those are fixed
settings you select to run the memory at
L62[09:43:02] <Althego> and modern amd you
basically have to turn it on anyway, so
L63[09:43:04] <Izzy> new hardware is weird
I got better performance by underclocking
L64[09:43:32] <Althego> you an get slightly
better performance by undervolting slighty with the curve
optimizer
L65[09:43:49] <Izzy> gave it more thermal
headroom by mildly undervolting and underclocking yeah
L66[09:45:03] <Mat2ch> Interesting
L67[09:45:11] <darsie> WTF, there's
illuminated RAM ...
L68[09:45:22] <Mat2ch> for years
already!
L69[09:45:38] <Mat2ch> You can have your
case light up like a christmas tree. And worse.
L70[09:45:52] <darsie> Yeah, I've seen fans
etc.
L71[09:46:03] <Althego> man, are you under
a rock
L72[09:46:07] <Althego> everything high end
is rgb
L73[09:46:11] <Althego> whether you want it
or not
L74[09:46:41] <Althego> i managed to get by
with minimal, there is only an xfx light n the video card, not
changing colors, and the ram doing rainbow
L75[09:47:27] <Althego> which is slightly
useful, because you can see the fans spinning and even the 4 error
leds
L76[09:47:51] <Mat2ch> you can get
everything without RGB, too. But sometimes getting the stuff with
RGB is just cheaper
L77[09:48:13] <Izzy> unironically thinking
about getting some RGB LED strips because I'm a BeOS fangirl
L78[09:48:36] <Izzy> stick em in the front
transparent part of the case and use them as a load graph
L79[09:49:43] <Izzy> already got RGB fans
though, because those were the cheapest aliexpress fans that didn't
have awful reviews or lifetime rating of "no"
L80[09:49:48] ⇨
Joins: sandbox (~sandbox@host-92-1-130-62.as13285.net)
L81[09:50:35] <Mat2ch> some people went so
far and gutted tft displays and put them behind their window. (Have
fun trying to get a case without a window these days...)
L82[09:51:13] <sandbox> oh?
L83[09:51:33] <darsie> THe one I'm after is
plain as fuck. With a dent.
L84[09:51:40] <Izzy> I'd be worried about
them melting because that would put them in front of the GPU
L86[09:52:16] <Mat2ch> and that's just the
beginning.
L88[09:53:57] <Mat2ch> someone building a
transparent display into the window of his computer
L89[09:57:42] ⇨
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L90[09:57:42]
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L91[09:58:54] <darsie> I could get 2x16 GB
5200 MHz for 100 EUR.
L92[09:59:43] <sandbox> my previous one had
a window, but it was kind of pointless as that side faced the
inside of... well, basically against the wall of a cupboard
L93[09:59:49] <darsie> Instead of the 2666
MHZ 32 GB
L94[10:00:45] *
Deddly can only dream of having two memory card slots
L95[10:01:26] <sandbox> my current case has
a windowed option so I went with the windowless version of the
case
L96[10:01:51] <Althego> that is anothe
rproblem, high end cases always have a window now
L97[10:01:58] <Althego> not even acrylic,
real glass
L98[10:03:21] <darsie> Bullet proof?
:)
L99[10:03:41] <sandbox> sharkproof
L100[10:03:53] <darsie> UV transparent
fused silica? :)
L101[10:04:08] <darsie> AlON :)
L102[10:04:08] <sandbox> some of them
remind me of aquariums
L103[10:04:22] <darsie> Ohh, there are PCs
in vegetable oil :)
L104[10:04:56] <sandbox> there was a
special type of oil I remember
L105[10:05:16] <darsie> If it's saturated
fat it'll solidify. If it's unsaturated it'll polymerize.
L106[10:05:39] <darsie> There's mineral
oil.
L107[10:05:42] <darsie> Or silicone.
L108[10:06:15] <darsie> Silicone oil comes
in a huge range of visciosities.
L109[10:07:24] <sandbox> it was something
else more obscure that I remember a one-off build using
L110[10:07:57] <darsie> Nitroglycerin?
:)
L111[10:08:30] <sandbox> I don't think
that was it
L112[10:08:40] <darsie> LN2? :)
L113[10:08:55] <darsie> LHe? :)
L115[10:10:52] <darsie> ahh
L116[10:12:14] <darsie> Fluorinert
variants have an extremely high Global Warming Potential (GWP)
:(
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L119[10:21:04] <Mat2ch> darsie: you should
get at least the 3200 MHz.
L120[10:21:24] <darsie> Yeah, that was the
plan.
L121[10:23:11]
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L122[10:23:25] <darsie> 2x16 GB 5200 MHz =
100 EUR, 2x16 GB 3200 MHz = 67 EUR
L123[10:24:09] <darsie> I'd get the 5200,
then, if that's not harmful to the PC.
L124[10:32:26] ⇦
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L126[10:39:08] <Mat2ch> what vendor?
L129[10:40:55] <Mat2ch> you need
DDR4
L130[10:41:15] <Mat2ch> 2 x DDR4 DIMM
sockets supporting up to 64 GB (32 GB single DIMM capacity) of
system memory
L131[10:41:48] <darsie> yeah, most are
DDR4. Maybe I should select it specifically.
L132[10:43:24] <darsie> Actually all are
DDR4
L133[10:43:56] <darsie> With my
selections.
L134[10:44:34] <darsie> Hmm, url says
cat=ramddr3
L135[10:44:35] <Mat2ch> please send the
link again
L136[10:44:35] <darsie> odd
L137[10:45:23] <darsie> There's DDR5(1282)
DDR4(2235) DDR3(390) DDR2(49) DDR(8)
L138[10:45:52] <darsie> Why, you didn't
leave.
L139[10:46:08] <Mat2ch> ?
L140[10:46:54] <darsie> Should still be on
your screen. Or did it scroll off on your phone?
L141[10:48:42] <darsie> Well, the main
memory category is cat=ramddr3, including all the DDRx.
L142[10:52:52] <Eddi|zuHause> Deddly: the
reasoning there i disagree with the most is that ";"
means a shorter pause, because on reading, because of its rarity,
it'd imply a longer pause.
L143[10:53:16] <Mat2ch> darsie: all of
your selections are not just ddr4, that's what I meant
L144[10:53:27] <Mat2ch> I want to make
sure we both see DDR4 only
L145[10:54:52] <darsie> right, the one
wiht 5200MHz has DDR5 and only one DDR4, thx.
L146[10:59:12] <Deddly> Eddi|zuHause, It's
between a comma and a full stop. So it's a longer pause than a
comma for sure.
L147[10:59:51] <Eddi|zuHause> Deddly: yes.
but it breaks the reading flow, so it's also a longer stop than a
period.
L150[11:01:55] <darsie> Mat2ch:
L151[11:02:08] <darsie> DDR4
selected
L152[11:02:48] <Deddly> Eddi|zuHause, Not
really. At least, that's not how it is intended.
L153[11:04:47] <Deddly> Eddi|zuHause, For
example: "I like sausages; they taste great with
potatoes." It's the sort of place where a lot of people
incorrectly use a dash, like –
L155[11:18:38] <Deddly> Do they have DDR3
SODIMMs?
L156[11:19:02] <Mat2ch> Looks good. There
is a chance that the OC mode does not work or not fully work. I for
myself have 3200 MHz, but can't go above 3800, because my system
gets unstable. I guess due to heat, I have a fully insulated
case
L157[11:19:29] <Mat2ch> Deddly: geizhals
is a price comparison site, so yes :)
L158[11:19:56] <Deddly> Oh, cool.
L159[11:20:52] <Deddly> I only see options
for DDR4 and DDR5
L161[11:21:50] <Deddly> Huh. OK thanks
Mat2ch
L162[11:22:22] <Mat2ch> I think you have
to unselect all else to have it shown
L163[11:23:20] <Deddly> 175 Euro for 16
gig. Heh.
L164[11:23:22] <Eddi|zuHause> Deddly: then
it's a great example of a discrepancy between intended effect and
actual effect.
L165[11:24:10] <Deddly> 16 Gb modules of
DDR3 SODIMMs are so rare and expensive
L166[11:24:28]
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L167[11:24:34] <Deddly> I'll put the money
into a new machine next year instead.
L168[11:25:18] <Deddly> I can live with 8
until October 2025 :)
L169[11:32:54] <Izzy> Didn't even know you
could get 16GB DDR3 sticks
L170[11:34:00] <Izzy> I moved and bought
an All New machine with a 5800X3D; good thing I did because the
previous one's PSU blew up on friday
L171[11:34:19] <Izzy> Nearly exactly 10
years old, heh.
L172[11:36:03] <Azander> wow
L173[11:36:19] <sandbox> Izzy, did it
damage anything else when it blew up?
L174[11:36:58] <Izzy> Haven't tested to be
sure. I think it killed the HBA I was testing, because the server
won't boot with it, so that's not a good sign.
L175[11:37:41] <Izzy> Hopeful the GPU is
still okay though, the 580 is middling nowadays but's still plenty
useful
L176[11:38:36] <sandbox> I never even
tested my old GPU, I assumed it was probably toast
L177[11:39:29] <Izzy> If it lives, I'll
replace the 980 in my mum's machine with it; it may be no faster,
but it will mean I never have to deal with NVIDIA drivers
again
L178[11:40:16] <Izzy> If not, that's a
shame, but ... well, I was running it hard. Going out in a blaze of
glory is respectable.
L179[11:42:31] *
Izzy shrugs
L180[11:43:08] <Izzy> Kinda mad, but I
guess I'm glad it waited till now to give out.
L181[12:13:55]
⇨ Joins: idaadi
(~textual@77-57-176-40.dclient.hispeed.ch)
L182[12:33:41] <packbart> my game PC needs
a better PSU. it can't run two HDDs (plus one SSD) and the GPU at
the same time. when a game tries to load assets, the disk shuts
down and restarts
L183[12:34:04] <KrazyKrl> ;outcome add
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
L184[12:34:04] <packbart> I just removed
the old 1TB drive and moved everything onto the 8TB
L185[12:34:04] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
[Muffled sounds of gorilla violence]
L186[12:35:44] ⇦
Quits: nasonfish (nasonfish@anarchy.esper.net) (Remote host closed
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L187[12:36:19] <Deddly> nextlunch
L188[12:36:25] <Izzy> still freaks me out
a bit how much is on the 12V rail now
L189[12:36:25] <Deddly> Oh noes, no lunch
for me
L190[12:36:35] <Deddly> !nextlunch
L191[12:36:35] <LunchBot> Old pasta cooked
in instant vegetable stock.
L192[12:36:37] <Izzy> sixty seven
amps
L193[12:36:38] <Deddly> yum
L194[12:38:19] <KrazyKrl> Then you
overclock a CPU and it runs at like 1 volt with 600 amps.
L195[12:38:20] <Eddi|zuHause> that's like
800W?
L196[12:38:37]
⇨ Joins: nasonfish (nasonfish@anarchy.esper.net)
L197[12:38:42] <Izzy> yup
L198[12:38:46] <Eddi|zuHause> what kind of
beefy GPU is that?
L199[12:39:24] <Izzy> I haven't heard of a
single GPU using that much. NVIDIA's current peak ones are 350-400W
per GPU though
L200[12:39:33] <Eddi|zuHause> i have like
6 HDDs running and never had problems with my 500W
L201[12:40:18] <Izzy> Apparently what's
going on is everything that uses any significant power (CPU, GPU,
etc) has its own power regulation stuff, and is regulating down
from the 12V rail
L202[12:40:21] <packbart> my 2080S is
about 250W at full load
L203[12:40:59] <Izzy> so rather than
multiple rails with balanced overall wattage, you get like 20W on
the 5V rail and 700W on the 12V rail
L204[12:41:28] <Izzy> the single 12V rail,
that is
L205[12:41:50] <packbart> it makes sense
to put the power regulators close to the chips. they draw power in
ugly near-squares
L206[12:42:16] <Izzy> the 6700XT I've got
can use like, 225W, theoretically
L207[12:42:31] <Izzy> wildly understressed
pushing 1200p60 though
L208[12:43:28] <KrazyKrl> Remember that if
you're using high wattage GPUs/CPUs near the PSU's limit, the
switching noise can cause substantial transients which may trigger
OCP on your PSU.
L209[12:43:45] <packbart> I heard an
anecdotal report from a supercomputer user. his code sadly
synchronized in a way that all the cores would switch between
idle/full load/idle at more or less precisely the same time
L210[12:44:12] <packbart> the power supply
didn't like switching a few kilowatts in microseconds and gave a
loud bang
L211[12:44:33] <packbart> they use random
delays in their code now
L212[12:44:50] <Izzy> it's funny, I
originally got the 750W PSU that popped to run a pair of GTX 690s,
which were wildly inefficient monsters. 600W total.
L213[12:45:32] <Izzy> that 600W was across
4 GPU ICs - meaning each individual GPU used "only" 150W,
which is pretty small nowadays
L214[12:47:03] <Izzy> double that would
not be unexpected for a single GPU. wild.
L215[12:52:15] <packbart> According to
Nvidia its DGX B200 chassis with eight B200 GPUs will consume
roughly 14.3kW – something that's going to require roughly 60kW of
rack power and thermal headroom to handle.
L216[12:52:19] <packbart> In a
liquid-cooled configuration, Nvidia says the chip can output 1,200W
of thermal energy when pumping out the full 20 petaFLOPS of
FP4.
L217[12:52:24] <packbart> Central Heating
Unit :)
L219[12:53:32] <Althego> i heard there is
a new future for analog computers, because they can run neural
networks with little power and exact precision does not matter for
that
L220[13:10:57] <Eddi|zuHause> dunno, most
AI stuf i've seen runs with 8bit integers
L221[13:11:34] <Eddi|zuHause> but that
might be because it's been designed for GPUs
L222[13:13:46] <Althego> they go as low as
they can get, i think there are lower than 8 bits now
L223[13:15:08] <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but
that only makes sense on hardware that benefits from those data
types
L224[13:16:02] <packbart> 4-bit
floating-point and such
L225[13:17:14] <Althego> so anyway with
that you can go to analog and consume a lot less power
L226[13:18:10] <Eddi|zuHause> but, can you
produce them in quantities high enough to be relevant and cost
effective?
L227[13:19:06] <Althego> shouldnt be too
hard
L228[13:19:18] <Althego> it is basically
what 50s or 60s tech
L229[13:19:51] <Eddi|zuHause> yes, but you
don't have 70 years of miniaturization on the production
lines
L230[13:21:06] <Althego> actually we
do
L231[13:21:17] <Althego> bot the analog
components stopped scaling a long time ago
L232[13:21:23] <Eddi|zuHause> and not an
established market in the billions of chips
L233[13:21:33] <Althego> sram stopped
scaling about two processes ago
L234[13:21:44] <Althego> so the only t
hing scaling now is logic
L235[13:22:02] <Althego> and probably n ot
for long
L236[13:22:21] <Eddi|zuHause> i'd file it
under "neat idea, but probably not scaling
properly"
L237[13:25:45] <Eddi|zuHause>
!mission
L238[13:25:45] <LunchBot> You insert a
used toilet plunger into the MPL in order to generate science
points while landed on Moho. You devour the Grey Goo.
L239[13:26:55] <Althego> must be
tasty
L240[13:27:13] <Eddi|zuHause> depends on
WHAT the toilet plunger was used for
L241[13:30:10] <Eddi|zuHause> (but
probably better not to ask)
L243[13:43:17] <Althego> just saw this
from louis rossmann
L244[13:43:26] <Althego> really stupid
design and process
L245[13:43:44] <Althego> and obviously
those connectors should be standardized on the psu side too
L246[13:44:13] <Althego> but that they can
change for the same manufacturer in the same type of psu, that is
stupid
L247[13:44:28] <Althego> and then they
dont even tell you, send you a replacement, and oops you burnt
everything
L248[13:44:34] <Eddi|zuHause> don't these
kinds of connectors have codings to avoid mis-plugging?
L249[14:01:50] <sandbox> I remember
hearing about when my school had a delivery of Apple computers
where the PSUs weren't set for UK voltage...
L250[14:02:50] <sandbox> I'm glad I wasn't
the work experience kid that day
L251[14:12:56] <Eddi|zuHause> i blew up a
thingie which had uncoded connectors when i accidentally offset it
by 1 pin
L252[14:22:54] <Eddi|zuHause> as far as i
could tell, it blew out a resistor or something, but nothing
essential, so it was someone else's problem to fix
L253[14:25:27] <Althego> if you have seen
a modular psu, they usually use the same type of plugs
L254[14:25:37] <Althego> but what the
exact pinout is, that is random
L255[14:25:48] <Althego> so certainly you
cant plug in its own cable wrong
L256[14:26:09] <Althego> but you can plug
in a similar looking cable
L257[14:26:14] <Althego> which will be
then wrong
L258[14:32:27] <Eddi|zuHause> doesn't that
defeat the point of the modularity?
L259[14:33:02] <Eddi|zuHause> because you
can't easily extend it later, you have to buy all cables in one
go
L260[14:33:17] <Althego> the point is, you
can remove the cables you dont need
L261[14:33:28] <Althego> for example i
dont have any sata device anymore
L262[14:33:53] <Althego> but need 2 out of
3 pcie power cables for the video card
L263[14:34:18] <Althego> other might have
a raid array with multiple sata power plugs, and no pcie
power
L264[14:35:03] <Eddi|zuHause> sure, but
imagine i add that SATA raid a year later...
L265[14:35:19] <Althego> and it is
compeltely fine
L266[14:35:29] <Althego> because you add
it to the psu with its own cables
L267[14:35:54] <Eddi|zuHause> but i can't
buy new cables to go with the array, i have to dig out the original
PSU box
L268[14:36:24] <Althego> but in this case
the hidden evil was, the manufacturer changed the pinout in a later
version of the same psu. the guy got a replacement psu, and by the
instructions of evga he did not send the cables, because they do
not send the cables back, just a new psu. so he gu a new psu with
incompatible pinout
L269[14:37:02] <Althego> and plugged in
the old cables to the new psu
L270[14:37:13] <Althego> clearly an
oversight by the manufacturer
L271[14:37:25] <Althego> but they are
somehow not responsible
L272[14:37:28] <Althego> at least in their
minds
L273[14:37:33] <Eddi|zuHause> they never
are
L275[14:38:04] <Eddi|zuHause> only option
is to call a court, and maybe in 5 years you get a replacement for
your broken gear. or maybe not
L276[14:38:05] <Althego> nice looking
docking
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L296[20:53:42] <Eddi|zuHause>
!mission
L297[20:53:43] <LunchBot> You get a
headache from too much lunch. You should really go to bed.
L298[20:53:56] <Eddi|zuHause> ah
well
L299[20:55:11] <raptop> !lunch
L300[20:55:11] <LunchBot> Fried egg and
mushroom sandwich with potato waffle things.
L301[21:13:42] <Eddi|zuHause> that
explains why it's "too much"
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L304[21:37:00] <XXCoder> lol perfect
combo
L305[21:37:04] <XXCoder> ;mission
L306[21:37:04] <LunchBot> Bob contemplates
the meaning of reality and all of existence. Things go bad, but
thankfully kerman Bacon lived so it's all good.
L307[21:37:23] <XXCoder> I wonder what
happened
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L311[21:59:21] <X> There is supposed to be
a thunderstorm in Dallas during the eclipse.
L312[21:59:33] <X> I don’t know what to
do.
L313[22:10:01] <Azander> drive elsewhere
to watch ?
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L317[22:36:42] <darsie> X: You could watch
the clouds eclipse the Sun.
L318[22:37:07] <darsie> Play KSP.
L319[22:38:39] <X> Azander: do you think
that where will be anywhere within 4 hours of Dallas without cloud
cover though?
L320[22:39:02] <X> That also assumes my
rental doesn’t get cancelled or something.
L321[22:39:31] <Izzy> that's like a 900km
radius
L322[22:40:17] <X> It’s a line.
L323[22:40:29] <X> But I also have to deal
with traffic
L324[22:40:44] <darsie> Get on a
balloon.
L325[22:40:54] <darsie> Hmm, maybe not in
a thunderstorm ...
L326[22:57:26] <raptop> X: Texas looks
better cloud-wise than eg: Ohio
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L329[23:10:16] <FLHerne> .outcome add You
have chosen between the death of your body and the death of your
aspirations and desires.
L330[23:10:16] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
You have chosen between the death of your body and the death of
your aspirations and desires.
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L332[23:15:42] <FLHerne> X: If you want to
see a total solar eclipse in the next 20 years, driving to pretty
much anywhere is much less travel than the alternatives
L333[23:29:35] <X> I live in Washington by
the way. O_o
L334[23:29:46] <X> I’m flying to
Dallas.
L335[23:30:04] <X> Or at least I have an
incredibly expensive flight and hotel booked…..
L336[23:30:43] <XXCoder> not as expensive
as flight outside country
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