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L1[00:24:09] <umaxtu> so I accepted a
contract to place a relay satelite in orbit with a combined antenna
rating of 7.2T, how screwed am I?
L2[00:47:30] ⇦
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L3[00:50:25] <FLHerne> umaxtu: with stock
parts? very, at a glance
L4[00:53:23] <umaxtu> I've got "CommNet
Antennas Extension" installed which adds a 500G dish, but
still...
L5[00:54:54] <FLHerne> 30,000 of the 100G
dishes should work
L6[00:54:58] <FLHerne> oh
L7[00:55:07] <FLHerne> 5x bigger helps a lot
more than 5x
L8[00:55:22] <FLHerne> because of the
exponential thing
L9[00:55:53] <umaxtu> still gonna be
massive
L10[00:57:13] <FLHerne> hm, I did the
calculation wrong at least once :p
L11[01:00:46] <FLHerne> yeah, my first
number was way too big
L12[01:01:39] <FLHerne> if I got it right
this time, you need 36 500G antennae
L13[01:01:46] <FLHerne> or 300 100G
ones
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L15[01:02:36] <FLHerne> that seems possible
without total insanity
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L17[01:05:09] <umaxtu> oh goodie
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L27[05:28:49] <NeckoGecko> Well, it's time
for the last reminder in this year, good morning and have a nice
day/night/bread everyone
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L34[07:25:28] <Althego> music o
L35[07:25:29] <Althego> n
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L37[07:53:39] <Althego> complete
success
L38[08:03:00] <Althego> lol scott turkey
reentry
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L45[10:16:05] <Mat2ch> the space
turkey
L46[10:16:12] <Mat2ch> freshly made.
L47[10:16:25] <Mat2ch> - served only
outdoors -
L48[10:17:03] <Althego> imagine that.
orbital pizza delivery. be sure to set the delivery coordinates to
your garden, not to your house!
L49[10:19:00] <Mat2ch> Oh yes, pizza would
work great
L51[10:34:12] <FLHerne> see also next page
re. coordinates
L52[10:34:24] <Althego> i hate olives
too
L53[10:35:09] <Althego> nothing new under
the sun
L54[10:35:21] <FLHerne> oh good, I can have
all your olives
L55[10:35:29] <FLHerne> best pizza
topping
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L58[12:04:52] <Mat2ch> Best pizza topping
is ananas!
L59[12:08:40] <Althego> which is pineapple
in english because of some reason
L60[12:09:02] <Althego> i wouldnt say it is
best, but i like oiuzza with it
L61[12:24:12] <Mat2ch> oh, you are right.
My brain is somewhere else right now :D
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L65[13:39:00] <raptop> pepperoni +
pineapple is a good combination
L66[13:40:13] <SporkWitch> i smell bait,
even though i agree :P
L67[13:40:52] <raptop> heh
L68[13:41:38] <Althego> which is the more
vicious war? the pizza on pineapple or the tabs vs spaces?
L69[13:42:05] <Althego> hehe i meant
pineapple on pizza
L70[13:42:21] <SporkWitch> i suspect tabs
vs spaces, because there's actually consequences in that one,
whereas the pizza argument boils down to "order and eat what
you like"
L71[13:42:35] <SporkWitch> (PS: the answer
is "spaces")
L72[13:48:33] <Mat2ch> The tabs vs. spaces
is easily answered. Tabs. Because you can select your own tab
width. There are people out there who have bad vision and use a
huge font, they put tab width to 1. Everyone else can adjust it to
their needs.
L73[13:48:51] <Mat2ch> So if you want to be
a decent person, use tabs. ;)
L74[13:48:54] <SporkWitch> which breaks
alignment if you don't agree on tab width with the other
person
L75[13:49:01] <Althego> it doesnt
L76[13:49:05] <Althego> because you only
use tabs
L77[13:49:13] <Althego> the mixed tabs
people
L78[13:49:15] <Althego> those should
burn
L79[13:49:40] <Izaya> single space
L80[13:49:44] <SporkWitch> then you can't
achieve alignment while also obeying line width standards
L81[13:50:05] <Mat2ch> line width standards
are meant to be broken.
L82[13:50:21] <Althego> i have a screen
with about 400 characters width. enforced line width is
stupid
L83[13:50:22] <SporkWitch> they exist for
several good reasons, not least of which is readability
L84[13:50:32] <Mat2ch> those come from a
time when displays were a lot smaller. Even Linus Torvalds started
to admit this.
L85[13:50:46] <SporkWitch> granted that's
one of the reasons, but it's not the only one
L86[13:52:11] <SporkWitch> regardless, you
can't achieve alignment with ONLY tabs, without adding a LOT of
unnecessary whitepspace. Standard example would be aligning items
in an array, where you only need one or two extra spaces to achieve
alignment. If you're using all spaces, no issues, but if you use
tabs and then spaces for the extra needed, it breaks if someone
uses a different tab width
L87[13:52:32] <Mat2ch> yes, you should make
breaks in a very long line. But enforcing a hard limit doesn't make
it more readable. That's why we should use our common sense
:D
L88[13:52:34] <SporkWitch> even the tab
advocates typically acknowledge this
L89[13:52:54] <Althego> and that is the
only drawback of t he tabs
L90[13:52:57] <SporkWitch> (I want it on
record that althego started this :P)
L91[13:53:12] <Althego> very rare
case
L92[13:53:16] <Mat2ch> Then do the align
thing in a way it doesn't matter ;)
L93[13:53:23] <Althego> but you are stuck
with preformatetd lines with all lines if you use spaces
L94[13:53:27] <Althego> huge drawback
L95[13:53:29] <SporkWitch> whereas spaces
have no drawback, since any decent editor will sub in a number of
spaces equal to your tab width when hitting tab
L96[13:53:50] <SporkWitch> how's it a
drawback? it's well-formatted and stays that way lol
L97[13:54:05] <Althego> no, it is fromatted
as one person thought it was
L98[13:54:10] <Izaya> ngl friendos if your
editor can't ingest any number of tabs or spaces and reformat it to
show as you wish maybe your editor is the problem, not the
characters themselves
L99[13:54:10] <Althego> cant adjust to your
preference
L100[13:54:32] <Althego> you want this to
turn into an emacs vs vi or what?
L101[13:54:39] <Izaya> >:D
L102[13:54:42] <SporkWitch> Izaya: people
have been trying for proper elastic tabs for decades, without
success
L103[13:55:00] <raptop> If I get asked
this question in an interview, I'm saying "what the design doc
says"
L104[13:55:14] <SporkWitch> come on
althego, that's not even an argument, we're talking about text
editing, and emacs is still missing a decent text editor :P
L105[13:55:19] <Izaya> "what does the
codebase use?"
L106[13:55:46] <SporkWitch> well yeah, if
you're joining a project that already exists, you obey the
conventions of the existing codebase; that goes without saying,
even when the existing codebase is doing it wrong :P
L107[13:56:11] <Izaya> and when you start
your own project you do what's natural and don't think about it and
then everyone else can eat your bad decisions
L108[13:56:19] <Althego> i have been
trying to eliminate mixed tabs and spaces (half tabs thing, really
stupid) for a while, but cant, because omg, it will change every
line
L109[13:56:21] <Izaya> truly
wonderful
L110[13:56:31] <SporkWitch> hence spaces
:)
L111[13:56:31] <Mat2ch> how about we
program in visual boxes and not in lines? :D
L112[13:56:41] <Althego> lol the worst
idea ever
L113[13:56:42] <Izaya> I'll do you one
better:
L114[13:56:45] <Izaya> we start writing in
forth
L115[13:56:54] <Mat2ch> I thought
whitespace, but ok.
L116[13:57:08] <SporkWitch> Mat2ch: ever
used early 2000's Visual Basic? that's basically what it is... it's
practically lego mindstorms it's so dumb and limited
L118[13:57:58] <Althego> verbal morality
statute, etc
L119[13:58:11] <Althego> cant get much
worse than malbolg
L120[13:58:22] <Althego> optimized for
uselessness
L121[13:58:26] <SporkWitch> i figured
since it's literally the proper title of the language it would be
acceptable in context.
L122[13:58:51] <SporkWitch> not like i'm
going around cussing, literally was bringing up a specific esoteric
language lol
L123[13:58:54] <Althego> at that pont
whether bf or whitespace, doesnt really matter
L124[14:01:28] <SporkWitch> probably not
an original idea, but i'm not picturing someone writing a bunch of
C, with a whitespace program hidden inside it... lol might be a
little tricky since LFs are used, too, not just tab and
space....
L125[14:01:33] <SporkWitch> *now
picturing
L126[14:03:05] <Althego> so when is 2
coming?
L127[14:03:12] <Althego> and how?
L128[14:03:17] <Althego> that early access
is it steam?
L129[14:03:37] <SporkWitch> February 24th
still, Steam for sure, and I assume direct from the devs as
well
L130[14:03:52] <Althego> that would be
good, then i can try it too
L132[14:04:31] <SporkWitch> given that
they forced that new launcher on us even on Steam for KSP, I think
it's a safe assumption.
L133[14:04:36] <Althego> steam epic and
direct download
L134[14:04:55] <Izaya> launcher isn't
there on linux :)
L135[14:05:16] <Althego> i have used the
launcher the first few weeks lol
L136[14:05:23] <Althego> and never
agian
L137[14:05:33] <Althego> 1 because it
never updated 2 because you dont need it
L138[14:05:35] <SporkWitch> had a few that
i couldn't get working in WINE, and I couldn't get usable
performance from a Windows VM even sitting at the desktop (I really
think microsoft did something to kill windows vm performance on
non-windows hosts)
L139[14:05:49] <SporkWitch> left me stuck
on windows until i get bored of / stop playing the ones i can't get
working on linux
L140[14:06:11] <Althego> actually ms and
linux made a lot of vm related interworking improvements to my
knowledge
L141[14:06:18] <Althego> in both
directions
L142[14:06:20] <Izaya> I'm just happy that
I get to smug at windows users over KSP again
L143[14:06:26] *
Izaya smugs in stable 64-bit build
L144[14:06:34] <Althego> hehe
L145[14:06:44] <Althego> remember when it
was basically 32 bit only?
L146[14:06:54] <SporkWitch> i just have no
other way to explain the performance issues i was encountering,
especially with the resources I was throwing at it. I'd never had
issues with qemu-kvm in the past
L147[14:06:57] <Althego> i would be
surprised if there was a 32 bit version this time
L148[14:07:00] <Izaya> no, I've never run
a 32-bit build of KSP :^)
L149[14:07:10] <Izaya> oh, unless you mean
computers in general
L150[14:07:28] <Althego> i meant ksp
L151[14:07:29] <SporkWitch> literally even
just startup and sitting at the desktop, it was like a
slideshow
L152[14:07:49] <Izaya> SporkWitch: well
you should be running it in Hyper-V you see
L153[14:07:54] <Izaya> ESXI if you
must
L154[14:08:03] <SporkWitch> Izaya: so
windows host OS lol
L155[14:08:28] <SporkWitch> thus defeating
the whole point of using a windows VM only for those things that
won't work in linux
L156[14:09:17] <Izaya> Why would you ever
want to use Linux?
L157[14:09:21] <Izaya> WSL2? Never heard
of it.
L158[14:09:48] <SporkWitch> why would you
ever want to use windows?
L159[14:09:57] <Althego> because it is the
best game launcher
L160[14:10:01] <Althego> and that is why i
use it
L161[14:10:07] <Althego> for everything
else i ssh to linux :)
L162[14:10:23] <SporkWitch> i'd rather run
the windows VM for the three games that don't behave in linux
lol
L163[14:10:37] <Izaya> you wanna know
today's fun windows-related weirdness?
L164[14:10:52] <Izaya> game wouldn't
launch until I killed the edge updater exe that didn't work
properly in WINE
L165[14:10:53] <SporkWitch> literally DCS,
Star Citizen, and SWG are the only things I can't get behaving in
linux, and SC pisses me off because they promised native linux
support :'(
L166[14:11:24] <Izaya> they also promised
a workable game before 2100 sooooooo
L167[14:11:59] <Izaya> sorry I'm being an
antagonistic ... unpleasant individual it's late and I'm mildly
intoxicated I'm gonna go
L168[14:12:07] <SporkWitch> they'd had a
full gameplay loop for a few years now; don't beat the memes to
death, it's tiring when there are legitimate rather than
exaggerated criticisms for them
L169[14:13:09] <Althego> star citizen is
the ftx of gaming :)
L170[14:13:38] <SporkWitch> like i said,
tiring, because there are legitimate things to criticise, they're
just never what people bring up
L171[14:14:41] <SporkWitch> also, while I
could see their higher-ups donating to the DNC, like FTX did, it's
still not relevant to any of the legitimate criticisms for the
game
L172[14:15:28] *
Izaya goes to look up which one that is
L173[14:16:27] <SporkWitch> FTX was the
crypto scam that was in a mutual-gain situation of donations and
promotion/protection with the DNC, which is why it took so long for
anything to be done about it, and even longer before the boss was
arrested and charged
L174[14:16:58] <Izaya> no I heard about
FTX, but I don't remember which one the D in DNC is
L175[14:17:06] <SporkWitch> Democratic
National Convention
L176[14:17:08] <Izaya> yee
L177[14:17:39] <Izaya> but I can never
remember which one stands for what and who they put forward as
candidates and such
L178[14:17:58] <SporkWitch> I'll take it
to DMs so as not to derail too much here
L179[14:18:00] <Izaya> not really relevant
to my own life, y'know?
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L187[16:42:18] <SporkWitch> FLHerne: i
haven't read that comic in YEARS. Used to live near where it's set,
knew the author lol
L188[16:42:56] <FLHerne> SporkWitch: tbh
you haven't missed much, it's been "meh" for years
L190[16:43:23] <FLHerne> I get the
impression Jeph is fed up of writing it but can't afford not to,
tbh
L191[16:43:43] <SporkWitch> FLHerne: fair,
i kind of saw the decline before I left the area. First couple
books were great, though
L192[16:44:16] <FLHerne> Quite a lot of
it's great
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say plz because it is shorter than please, I will say no because it
is shorter than yes.)
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Quits: XXCoder (~XXCoder@174-21-44-37.tukw.qwest.net) (Quit: If you
say plz because it is shorter than please, I will say no because it
is shorter than yes.)
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