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L31[08:30:44] <Althego> zombanwa
L33[08:44:09] <NeckoGecko> o_O
Zombie?
L34[08:45:06] <Althego> playing
overwatch
L36[08:45:26] <Althego> and the stream
died
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L60[16:55:33] <Mat2ch> I hate people.
L61[16:55:44] <Mat2ch> "I had never a
problem with it" yeah, and that makes you what?
L62[16:55:56] <Althego> wrong
channel?
L63[16:56:02] <SporkWitch> works for me!
:P
L64[16:56:42] <Althego> how many test
engineers do you need to replace a light bulb? none, "the
light bulb works perfectly in my test setup"
L65[16:56:56] <SporkWitch> hehe
L66[16:56:57] <Mat2ch> Nah. I made a forum
post. First answer "never had a problem with this"
L67[16:57:11] <Mat2ch> Stupid stupid
people.
L68[16:57:13] <Mat2ch> I hate them.
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L70[16:59:03] <Althego> hehe, why post
that? it doesnt add anything
L71[17:00:25] <SporkWitch> If it was JUST
that, yeah, but "i've never encountered that, but here's some
speculation about what could potentially cause it" is
something I've responded with before, or asking for additional
information to better speculate. I find most initial questions are
really vague
L72[17:01:52] <FLHerne> also, sometimes
"never had that problem" is useful just because it shows
it's not a broad unavoidable game bug
L73[17:02:21] <FLHerne> and something more
specific to your system/craft/whatever
L74[17:02:49] <FLHerne> depends if the
issue you're asking about is something obviously niche though
L76[17:07:32] <FLHerne> tbh I agree with
that guy
L77[17:07:42] <FLHerne> the current menu is
out of the way
L78[17:08:21] <FLHerne> and you need to
switch parts frequently so a centered one would be obscuring my
view of the craft all the time
L79[17:10:10] <SporkWitch> Gonna have to
agree as well, also, the overwhelming majority of people still use
16:9 aspect ratios; ultrawides are still fairly uncommon
L80[17:11:55] <SporkWitch> Also remember
that KSP2 will be using largely procedural parts, so you're not
going to be grabbing as many, you're mostly going to be interacting
with those sliders, that ARE closer to the work area you're
interacting with.
L81[17:14:31] <Mat2ch> FLHerne: In Avorion
you enable/disable the menu all the time.
L82[17:14:37] <Mat2ch> People don't seem to
get this.
L83[17:14:58] <Althego> both seem to eb a
workable conept
L84[17:15:01] <FLHerne> I've never played
Avorion, and probably most people haven't, so why is that
surprising?
L85[17:15:10] <Althego> i mean why have the
parts menu on screen when you are moving a part
L86[17:15:14] <FLHerne> I know I hate modal
dialogs that block my view of what I'm doing
L87[17:15:28] <Mat2ch> Because I've written
what it does and people don't seem to be read my words and at least
are trying to understand them?
L88[17:15:30] <FLHerne> at least when
there's usually plenty of screen space at the sides
L89[17:15:50] <FLHerne> I mean, the concept
of how it's supposed to work seems pretty clear
L90[17:16:00] <Althego> you know the basic
assumptions of gui design: the user cant read, the user cant
click
L91[17:16:02] <FLHerne> but I don't like
it
L92[17:16:07] <Althego> seems to be the
same for forums :)
L93[17:16:09] <Mat2ch> Althego: I hate
people!
L94[17:16:11] <FLHerne> which is personal
preference
L95[17:16:52] <Althego> in both cases
however maybe some keyboard shortcuts would be useful for faster
addign of parts
L96[17:17:12] <Mat2ch> FLHerne: In Avorion
you press space, the building blocks menu shows up, you select the
part you want and release space
L97[17:17:15] <Mat2ch> and now you can
place the part
L98[17:17:16] <FLHerne> for unusually
large/wide monitors I can see the advantage, but I don't have
one
L99[17:17:23] <SporkWitch> few people
do
L100[17:17:26] <Mat2ch> the menu is right
in the middle, where your mouse cursors sits
L101[17:17:50] <Mat2ch> I have a 27"
screen, which is wide enough to make this annoying.
L102[17:18:03] <Althego> i have a 30"
screen :)
L103[17:18:16] <SporkWitch> I'm running
32" screens, never been an issue
L104[17:18:18] <Mat2ch> Bragger! :D
L105[17:18:42] <Althego> and i find it
annoying that the parts couldnt be grouped in a way that no
scrolling is needed in any of the groups
L106[17:18:48] <Mat2ch> 2k? 4?
L107[17:18:54] <Althego> i think 1 or 2
needs scrolling, quite annoying
L108[17:19:02] <Althego> 2560x1600
L109[17:19:15] <Mat2ch> That's 2k with
some addition on top. :P
L110[17:19:15] <Althego> this monitor is
getting old, i plan to replace it with a 4k
L111[17:19:19] <SporkWitch> 2560x1440,
display is a metre from my face?
L112[17:19:27] <SporkWitch> (estimating
distance)
L114[17:19:48] <Althego> now that is a
battlestation
L115[17:19:58] <Althego> there is even a
phone lol
L116[17:20:00] <Althego> wait, 2
L117[17:20:07] <SporkWitch> i worked for a
VoIP company lol
L118[17:20:21] <SporkWitch> they were for
testing and reproducing customer issues
L119[17:20:32] <Mat2ch> now imagine having
KSP2 on all three screens and the building parts menu fully on the
left. ;)
L121[17:20:44] <Althego> never occured to
me to bring phones home
L122[17:20:56] <Mat2ch> the scaling makes
it usable.
L123[17:21:21] <Mat2ch> But on a 4k
screen, not scaled the building menu will be very small and very
far away.
L124[17:21:27] <Althego> most of the
issues are not related to physical hardware, we use soft
clietns
L125[17:22:05] <Mat2ch> Adding different
voip phone manufactures into the mix of a voip phone exchange makes
things, ehm, interesting...
L126[17:22:31] <SporkWitch> exactly, which
is necessary with any UI at these resolutions, screen sizes, and
viewing distances. Actually annoys me on PS4 sometimes, as some
games did NOT scale the UI well on my 4k (60-something inches i
think?) TV and making it difficult to read
L127[17:22:47] <SporkWitch> Majority are
still runnin 1920x1080
L128[17:24:06] <Mat2ch> They will update
in the life-time of KSP2...
L129[17:25:20] <SporkWitch> Sure? And
that's why UI scale is a setting in most games that didn't start on
consoles (it's actually something that the Restoration team has
been struggling with for a while, because SWG didn't have a UI
scale setting, and at modern resolutions it's barely
readable)
L130[17:27:23] <Mat2ch> KSP is almost 10
years old.
L131[17:27:30] <SporkWitch> likely more
work to make it a modal window you can drag around and/or minimize,
plus having to worry about people accidentally hiding it off-screen
and having to reset to defaults. They also want to maintain some
interface consistency with KSP1, while improving on that base. The
only really drastic change is moving the in-flight staging to the
right side, and once again that's about consistency
L132[17:27:43] <SporkWitch> since that's
where it is in the VAB and SPH
L133[17:27:44] <Mat2ch> No idea how the
world will look in 10 years, but displays are moving to 4k right
now
L134[17:28:20] <SporkWitch> for TVs; on
computers 2k is still the most common even for high-end
gaming-marketed displays.
L135[17:29:33] <SporkWitch> In no small
part because there's almost no combination of hardware and a game
with sufficient optimization to actually maintain high performance
at 4k, and typically people in that high-end niche are more worried
about refresh rates and frame rates, hence most of the high-end
ones being stupid-high refresh rates at 2k
L136[17:30:41] <SporkWitch> Though again,
even at those higher resolutions, that's what the UI scale slider
is for
L137[17:31:21] <SporkWitch> (I'd end up
doing that anyway, because even if the menu was in the middle, at
default UI scales things would be too tiny to be really
usable)
L138[17:41:38] <umaxtu> I want a nice
ultrawide. but they charge a premium for them
L139[17:43:14] <SporkWitch> I just don't
see what I'd use one for. It's never horizontal space I'm lacking,
it's vertical. I've considered picking up one of those dynamically
rotating monitors before, the ones you can flip to portrait and the
display resolution and orientation adjusts accordingily. Really
nice for long documents
L140[17:43:48] <SporkWitch> What games I
have that would benefit from more horizontal display are either
multi-window apps already, or have native support for multiple
displays.
L141[17:44:42] <umaxtu> wpuld clean up my
cabling quite a bit and no bezels
L142[17:45:36] <SporkWitch> fair, though
you can get some REALLY small bezels these days, and a few have
even made prisms that mount to the joins and make the bezels
disappear
L144[17:47:07] <umaxtu> it's going to be a
while for me either way. a car is my next major purchase
L146[17:48:13] <SporkWitch> I might
actually do this at some point, though I'll need to kidnap a friend
to help me fix the mounting of my displays so they're lined up
better. Just too heavy for me to get it perfect solo
L147[17:49:29] *
umaxtu takes a screenshot for evidence
L148[17:49:38] <SporkWitch> lol
L149[17:50:29] <SporkWitch> foiled, looks
like they don't make them for 32" displays :(
L150[17:51:28] <SporkWitch> umaxtu: What
list am I on, Santa? "Well, I've been looking at the memes
you've been posting... so probably DHS, NSA, and the
FBI...?"
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L152[19:08:20] <Mat2ch> Ok, I will never
make any suggestion anymore.
L153[19:08:49] <Mat2ch> People just don't
think for at least a short moment.
L154[19:08:59] <Mat2ch> I should've known
better
L155[19:09:50] <SporkWitch> Coming off
more like projection here; the real issue appears to be that no one
seems to agree that there's an issue or that your proposed solution
would actually be an improvement.
L156[19:13:36] <Mat2ch> They don't agree,
because they are used to the way it always was.
L157[19:13:55] <Mat2ch> Some arguments are
just plain stupid, others don't include the problem at all.
L158[19:14:12] <Mat2ch> It's more like a
"we've done it always that way" reaction, than a real
discussion
L159[19:16:08] <Mat2ch> I wonder when I
will get comments from the mods for my answers...
L160[19:20:18] <FLHerne> UI discussions
don't have a lot of scope for productive discussion often
L161[19:21:03] <FLHerne> it's mostly
personal preference, unless you have some very specific example of
why some aspect is a problem
L162[19:22:32] <FLHerne> reading it,
everyone seems to understand what you mean, just don't like it for
KSP
L163[19:24:07] <FLHerne> I don't care if
it's easy to toggle, it's frequent distracting context-switching to
so
L164[19:24:36] <FLHerne> *to avoid a
L165[19:24:45] <FLHerne> bleh mobile
keyboard
L166[19:25:23] <FLHerne> *to avoid a
problem that most users don't seem to find significant
L167[19:26:08] <FLHerne> maybe TheAziz
didn't
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L179[20:43:08] <Mat2ch> FLHerne: You are
right here. Ui discussions is like discussing tastes.
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L184[21:18:14] <raptop> I feel like regex
has a good counterpoint, though the UI could likely stand to be
more like 5 columns than 3 (or something)
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L187[21:23:02] <Mat2ch> It could show up
and go away. And be wider. And better organized
L188[21:23:41] <Mat2ch> It takes ages in
KSP to find the tank I want. Mods make it worse! I hope the
procedural parts make it better
L189[21:24:22] <Althego> it could be a
tree structure instead of just a list of groups
L190[21:24:38] <SporkWitch> It almost
certainly will. Tanks, batteries, cargo bays, aerodynamic surfaces,
all obvious and excellent candidates for procedural shaping
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L193[21:36:09] <Althego> interesting scott
video
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L197[21:56:30] <darsie> oops :)
L198[21:57:04]
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L199[21:58:38] <Mat2ch> A good video can
be posted more than once.
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L201[21:59:51] <darsie> :)
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L205[22:28:52] <raptop> procedural-ish
parts would solve so many issues with finding the right tanks
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L208[23:25:33] <SporkWitch> He legit did
that totally stock, just custom flags. Nicely done lol
L209[23:28:01] <XXCoder> lol
L210[23:29:09] <XXCoder> clever lol
L211[23:29:29] <SporkWitch> I honestly
thought it was some clever editing until he zoomed out, it looked
that good lol
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