L7[02:45:24] <raptop> !mission

L8[02:45:24] <LunchBot> You experiment with mixed vegetable rocket staging. Clowns attach streamers to your rocket. You somehow fail to notice and you crash into the VAB.

L9[02:45:42] <raptop> This raises several additional questions

L19[06:31:06] <Izaya> heh, had a vessel with state "landed" in flight again

L20[06:38:19] <Althego> and how do you et out of that?

L21[06:39:49] <Izaya> quickloaded >.>

L24[07:15:33] <Izaya> https://shadowkat.net/tmp/9f61.jpg

L28[09:06:55] <FLHerne> raptop: https://twitter.com/JamesLucasIT/status/1580232853572718592

L38[11:37:25] <darsie> 1337

L41[12:02:57] <NGC3982> i seem to be literally icapable of leaving duna

L42[12:03:01] <NGC3982> eve*

L43[12:03:22] <Mat2ch> Eve is hard.

L44[12:03:26] <Althego> ah i was wondering what the problem with duna is

L45[12:03:38] <Althego> yes eve is hard

L46[12:03:42] <Althego> but not as hard as it used to be

L47[12:03:43] <Mat2ch> You either have to go on a higher elevation there or bring lots and lots of fuel.

L48[12:04:19] <NGC3982> i thought i overdid it but it doesnt even leave the ground

L49[12:04:19] <Mat2ch> With the performance of KSP in Linux (some comments I've seen is that it performs far better with windows) it is hard, because you can't bring a lot of parts...

L50[12:04:25] <Althego> gpong tp a mountaintop is easier said than done

L51[12:04:36] <Althego> you can use electrip props for initial ascent too

L52[12:04:49] <Izaya> I hear the electric - yeah

L53[12:04:52] <Mat2ch> NGC3982: what does the TWR show for your rocket at ground level?

L54[12:05:14] <NGC3982> https://skarmdump.henjoh.se/Screenshot%202022-10-14%20140339.png

L55[12:05:19] <Althego> what does the scouter say about his power level? it's over 9000!

L56[12:05:39] <NGC3982> my solution was to use a lander and then split it, only flying the upper part to ease myself into orbit where my big ship is waiting

L57[12:05:39] <Althego> are t hose solids?

L58[12:05:42] <NGC3982> yes

L59[12:05:49] <Mat2ch> solid fuel boosters perform very badly on Eve

L60[12:05:55] <NGC3982> i noticed

L61[12:05:56] <NGC3982> ;_;

L62[12:05:58] <Althego> there are literally just about a handful engines that work at those altitudes on eve

L63[12:06:10] <Mat2ch> and you still need lots of them.

L64[12:06:34] <Althego> i suggest the vector

L65[12:06:47] <Althego> it is small and powerful and works well at lower altitudes

L66[12:06:50] <NGC3982> ok

L67[12:06:57] <Mat2ch> Eve is something for engineers and scientists who like to calculate and/or calculate very much

L68[12:06:57] <Althego> there are otheres

L69[12:07:08] <Althego> and btw eve is about as hard as real earth

L70[12:07:34] <Althego> you can imagine how hard to build an actual orbital rocket

L72[12:07:38] <Mat2ch> but the engines and fuel/weight ratio is nerfed!

L73[12:07:38] <NGC3982> yeah

L74[12:08:04] <Mat2ch> I can easily build an orbital rocket in RSS/RO

L75[12:08:27] <Mat2ch> I even did a Moon mission there. Which is terrifying, because the real Moon is huge.

L76[12:09:52] <Mat2ch> NGC3982: for eve ascend try playing around with the TWR display in the VAB and have bring enough fuel. It takes around 8000 dV to get into a good orbit

L77[12:10:05] <Mat2ch> -have

L78[12:10:23] <NGC3982> i think i need to build my upper craft separately because when its all together i cant really distinguish it

L79[12:10:27] <Mat2ch> So a multistaged rocket will be the best. 3 stages should do the trick.

L80[12:10:38] <NGC3982> allright

L81[12:10:49] <Althego> also the ascent ship doesnt need parachutes and stuff

L82[12:10:54] <Althego> you can ditch soem more mass

L83[12:10:59] <Mat2ch> And you can optimize the dV here. Because the higher you get, the smaller (and lighter) engines you need.

L84[12:11:02] <Althego> you can consider using command seats too

L85[12:11:10] <Mat2ch> You can get away with tiny engines on your last stage

L86[12:11:57] <Althego> also need to use every trick in the book. asparagus staging, altitude optimized engines, etc

L88[12:12:34] <Mat2ch> asparagus is not always necessary, but helps keeping the whole thing small.

L89[12:12:54] <Mat2ch> .oO( and I'm giving myself a hard time, because I try to avoid it... )

L90[12:18:15] <Althego> for the starting engines on low altitude on eve you have to choose among: aerospike (too small for first stage need a lot), mainsail, vector (most versatile), rapier (in closed cycle but too small again), twin boar, mammoth

L91[12:23:03] <Pinkbeast> If you're in a modded world Hooligan Labs has one realistic-lift inflatable airship envelope which considerably eases the Eve problem.

L92[12:24:24] <Pinkbeast> I got to Eve orbit with something that started out at sea level as a plane (which could descend from orbit behind an inflatable heatshield) but not very reliably

L93[12:24:27] <Althego> yes always seemed to be the realistic solution

L94[12:24:57] <Althego> i mean the balloon

L95[12:25:22] <Pinkbeast> Unfortunately HL has only one realistic-lift envelope, but yeah, seems the ideal zeroth stage on Eve - from that I could just asparagus up with aerospikes.

L96[12:27:58] <Althego> would be nice to have a venus sample return

L97[12:28:40] <Pinkbeast> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/146923-elcano-iv-circumnavigate-all-the-things/page/2/#comment-4161408 was my balloon Eve return vehicle

L98[12:30:12] <Pinkbeast> Turns up in orbit with about 1300-1400 dV to rendezvous with whatever, and doesn't care what altitude you start from on Eve.

L102[13:40:36] <SporkWitch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f6d40Ppz3M pretty neat experimental engine. They're trying for a craft that can take off from the ground, reach hypersonic speeds, then land, and be able to launch again.

L103[13:41:39] <Mat2ch> When they reach hypersonic speed it is time to switch to the other mode and go to orbit! ;)

L104[13:42:45] <SporkWitch> figured out why the GPU block is expected to take so long to get here. for whatever reason amazon decided to show me things shipping from ITALY.

L105[13:43:40] <Mat2ch> Tell them to bring pizza.

L106[13:43:59] <SporkWitch> as i'm getting further in this video, it looks like it's going to be a hybrid ramjet/turbojet engine, so dual mode, plus afterburner

L107[13:44:06] <Mat2ch> and what is Skylon doing? Oh well, not much, it's an ESA project.

L108[13:44:28] <Althego> i think i have seen these guys from an other youtuber

L109[13:45:52] <Althego> or mor mayb ei t was the same

L110[14:04:43] <umaxtu> Boom does need an engine... /s

L117[15:56:55] <raptop> !8ball Does the Kraken have to worry if its diet is overly high in FATty foods (like HDDs, SSDs, etc)?

L118[15:56:55] <LunchBot> Of course not.

L119[15:57:08] <SporkWitch> crew-4 departure stream https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th7DeOVNg8Y

L142[22:15:34] <Pinkbeast> Oh joy 8-minute NERVA burns

L143[22:15:55] <SporkWitch> alt+period to force physics time warp

L144[22:16:08] <SporkWitch> (works even without better time warp mod)

L145[22:17:17] <SporkWitch> good news: i got my temps under control while i wait for the rest of the parts to arrive. Underclocked the CPU to limit each core to 2GHz, dropped the idle temp from 80 to 55

L146[22:18:31] <SporkWitch> i just hope the loop doesn't get any worse before the water block arrives. everything else to rebuild should be here by the 20th, but for some idiotic reason amazon showed me crap shipping from italy without telling me, so not only did it cost 25 for shipping, the expected delivery is between 2 november and 25 november >_<

L147[22:19:39] <Izaya> "lmao" ~ bezos, probably

L148[22:20:07] <SporkWitch> new radiator, CPU block, msot of the fittings, and fans arrived today. rest of the fittings sunday, new pump and reservoir by wednesday, then i'm just waiting on the GPU block >_<

L149[22:21:21] <SporkWitch> Could start work sooner while I wait for it, but that'd require ordering a bunch of quick disconnects or completely draining the loop to add it; the latter is a nightmare, and the former is stupid expensive (regular fittings are usually like 2-5 dollars each, quick disconnects are more like 10-20 each)

L151[22:23:35] <SporkWitch> you've no idea how nerve-wracking this is. the leak is under control, and it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but more and more air is getting into the loop and the thermals started rapidly getting worse. hence blowing this paycheck on just completely redoing everything

L152[22:25:07] <SporkWitch> still really lucky about WHERE the leak is, since whether vertical (how it's supposed to be) or on its side (how I've been keeping it, since it at least forces MOST of the air bubbles and waterfall flow away from the CPU block, so at least it's still getting the heat out of it), either way it doesn't drip on any actual components. Wrapped a piece of show towel around where it is to prevent it

L153[22:25:27] <SporkWitch> from following the length of the tubing, though there too, it doesn't pass over any components

L154[22:25:53] <Pinkbeast> "lmao" - Freeman Dyson, more probably

L155[22:26:49] <SporkWitch> more will just help with cleanup when i do the rebuild; there's some buildup in the CPU block, and where the leaked fluid dried there's this obvious mineral crust; that's one of the main reasons I decided to just completely replace the existing cooling solution, with the lessons learned from having built it, rather than simply replacing the tubing and fittings

L156[22:29:28] <SporkWitch> also some fun upgrades with the rebuild. adding the GPU block, obviously (no joke, the fans on this 3080 are louder than the engines in KSP at my normal volume settings, and those same volume settings have it hard to hear youtube over the engines lol), but also the new CPU block has an integrated temperature sensor, added a separate temp sensor (mobo supports two, so why not get readings from

L157[22:30:19] <SporkWitch> front and back of the loop?), a flow meter (mobo supports 1), and the new pump is PWM-controlled, so I can adjust the pump in software, instead of needing to tilt the case and manage to fit a screwdriver underneath and find the tiny manual control and adjust it by feel alone heh

L158[22:31:17] <SporkWitch> in theory, the combination should let me take an average from the two temperature readings, as well as look at CPU and GPU temps, and automatically adjust both pump and fan speeds accordingly

L159[22:32:32] <SporkWitch> the rad's also more than double the usual recommendation for this setup, if we follow jayz2cents rule of 120mm per component, but that assumption also assumes 30mm thick; this one's a 480mm*64mm

L160[22:33:07] <SporkWitch> throw in enough fans to do push/pull on it, plus some intakes on the other side of the case so it's getting more fresh air than warm case air? should run nice and cool

L161[22:33:17] <Izaya> boards with built-in support for water cooling must be interesting

L162[22:33:27] <Izaya> is it like I2C headers or?

L163[22:33:46] <Izaya> just spicy fan headers?

L164[22:34:07] <SporkWitch> it's two 2-pin headers for the temp sensors, a 3-pin for the flow sensor, and I think it has a dedicated PWM header for a water pump rather than a fan

L165[22:35:37] <SporkWitch> https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B07SYW3RT2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

L166[22:39:45] <Izaya> huh

L167[22:41:00] <SporkWitch> if you pull up the manual, you'll see in the bottom right, it has the two temp headers, flow header, and the dedicated pump PWM header (page 18) https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/SocketAM4/ROG_CROSSHAIR_VIII_HERO/E15379_ROG_CROSSHAIR_VIII_HERO_UM_WEB.pdf

L168[22:43:24] <Izaya> sorta funny that such a fancy board has USB 2

L169[22:43:47] <Izaya> good to know it's still an option on newer boards though, got a breakout for that

L170[22:44:10] <SporkWitch> checking the documentation, looks like the default behaviour is to run the fans based on CPU temp, but the pump at full speed, so I'll definitely have to use software to manage it, if i want to run it slower when temps allow

L171[22:44:35] <SporkWitch> yeah, that's really my only complaint is that there is some mismatch to the front panel headers vs what the board has :(

L172[22:46:01] <SporkWitch> that said, I have GBE and don't generally need to plug in much that would require USB-3. Most of what I plug in stays plugged in, such has HOTAS, pedals, vive, keyboard, mouse, and headset. About the only thing that goes in and out (*takei voice* oh my!) is my yubikey, and that i'm plugging into the keyboard's pass-through. Only time I really use the front-panel USB is if I need to boot from it

L173[22:46:05] <Izaya> Also, three headers up the top for CPU cooling, heh

L174[22:46:25] <SporkWitch> it IS an AM4 board; modern CPUs get toasty lol

L175[22:46:48] <SporkWitch> i told you about how the sticker holding the box closed on my CPU literally said "cooler not included, liquid cooling recommended"? lol

L176[22:47:04] <Izaya> "we're not even gonna try, good luck"

L177[22:47:06] <Izaya> nice

L178[22:47:49] <SporkWitch> https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/812736295814168623/1030612847861973002/PXL_20201215_2054402422.jpg?width=786&height=909

L179[22:48:28] <Izaya> sometimes I think about how you could run modern CPUs with no external RAM at all and still run useful software

L180[22:48:42] <Izaya> 72M of cache is enough to run damn small linux

L181[22:48:53] <SporkWitch> right? lol

L182[22:49:07] <Izaya> the real wide server processors have like 256M

L183[22:49:11] <Izaya> you could run just normal debian on those

L184[22:49:24] <SporkWitch> i still remember deleting a couple MB on storage to make room for a new game, and UPGRADING an old 80486 to 48MB of RAM lol

L185[22:52:14] <SporkWitch> at one point I had a C64 without any HDD. you booted from one 5 1/4" and once it was up you switched to the one that had the program you needed lol

L186[22:52:31] <Izaya> your C64 had a FDD? luxury!

L187[22:52:44] <Izaya> ours just had a tape drive

L188[22:52:44] <SporkWitch> not a luxury when there's no HDD lol

L189[22:53:13] <SporkWitch> and even back then, the 5 1/4" was cheaper than any HDD