L1[00:14:05] <packbart> !mission

L2[00:14:06] <LunchBot> You build a micro surfboard so you can surf the microwaves. You give a TED talk on your exploits.

L3[00:14:19] <packbart> Science was done.

L4[00:14:23] <packbart> !mission

L5[00:14:23] <LunchBot> There's a kerman with a gun over there... You learn that the Super Nintendo does not have blast processing.

L6[00:15:00] <packbart> so, no bullet-proof Nintendos

L14[02:26:56] <SporkWitch> Izaya: where was this taken? I just noticed the second moon in the background. at first i thought you were around the mun, but that doesn't quite look like minmus, and it's way too large even if you got the timing right, unless you're using very different mods for making distant planets visible

L15[02:27:04] <SporkWitch> https://shadowkat.net/tmp/25f2.jpg

L16[02:27:31] <Izaya> that's above the Mun

L17[02:27:52] <Izaya> second moon? you mean the spots below Kerbin?

L18[02:28:51] <SporkWitch> oh, that's kerbin on the right side?

L19[02:28:56] <Izaya> yeah

L20[02:29:02] <Izaya> looks like the clouds gave up though

L21[02:29:09] <SporkWitch> the dark side is so bright and that white patch looked like ice lol

L22[02:29:35] <SporkWitch> yeah, that's what made me think moon, because with EVE the clouds look REALLY good from orbit lol

L23[02:29:52] <Izaya> There are normally clouds, they just seem to have not bothered to render >.>

L24[02:30:19] <Izaya> https://shadowkat.net/tmp/7d27.jpg

L25[02:30:20] <SporkWitch> the clouds and the light off of them is what made me take this screenshot earlier today lol https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/812736295814168623/1023712935048138852/unknown.png

L26[02:31:28] <SporkWitch> i still can't figure out what exactly is giving the "clouds" on airless moons, though whatever i did when redoing my mods and settings seems to have helped some. I did apparently have lightning on minmus earlier lol. Maybe it's a bad scaterrer config and I can find another preset

L27[02:32:11] <SporkWitch> moho has a massive corona around it, literally its own radius wide. looks like dust, as if the sun's ablating its surface off it

L28[02:32:20] <SporkWitch> (that one's even visible from the map)

L29[02:32:31] <Izaya> very volatile surface

L31[02:33:04] <SporkWitch> it is SUPPOSED to have that, then? I'd never actually looked at moho before having the graphics mods in, so I don't know what it looks like stock heh

L32[02:33:13] <SporkWitch> and yeah, that's more like what i'm used to kerbin looking like lol

L33[02:33:16] <Izaya> no idea, but it amuses me

L34[02:34:16] <SporkWitch> i really do need to start messing with kOS. I built three rockets today that mechjeb's ascent destroys almost as soon as it turns, yet flying manually with basic SAS I don't even struggle to fly them up lol

L35[02:35:09] <SporkWitch> (I run into this a lot with smaller payloads for some reason; it's almost easier to build something big to carry something large and heavy, than it is to send up small satellites, just due to KSP physics lol)

L36[02:35:32] <Izaya> most of my launches so far have been of <5t payloads

L37[02:35:38] <Izaya> hell, <2t

L38[02:35:56] <Izaya> my tiny 3-kerbal orbital transport pod weighs ~1.5

L39[02:36:08] <Izaya> costs just under 10k to launch

L40[02:37:34] <SporkWitch> i'll have to check what it weighs, but the main one I'm using right now is just perfect for minmus, not enough for mun. Has all the science i've unlcoked (up to gravioli and gamma spec), and brings the instruments back with me, plus just enough food and living space that the kerbals don't mutiny before they get back. Though the last mission was a close thing; accidental mun encounter, so instead

L41[02:38:02] <SporkWitch> of burning off the last of the fuel in atmo to avoid multiple aerobraking passes on the return, i had to do 5 or 6 orbits.

L42[02:38:57] <Izaya> this one is used almost exclusively to service stations and do tourist missions

L43[02:39:09] <SporkWitch> related: ladders really should be physics-less parts. Given the way you have to position the damn things so they don't magically block the crew hatch, but still let kerbals actually USE them to get to the hatch, it keeps ending up sticking just barely enough out that no matter how i angle the reentry, the ladder blows up, making getting that extra science on the return to kerbin a PITA

L44[02:39:20] <Izaya> https://shadowkat.net/tmp/9f67.jpg

L45[02:39:43] <SporkWitch> ah, well, yes, that is quite dainty lol

L46[02:40:18] <Izaya> so smol I don't even bother with a heatshield, the engine can take it

L47[02:40:42] <Izaya> assuming I don't mind lowering my orbit from 100x100 to 70.05 to 70.05 first

L48[02:41:14] <SporkWitch> yeah, i don't think i NEED the heatshield i have on this thing right now, but just as a matter of principle I use them anyway, since deadly reentry does NOT get along with KSPI (found a forum post about it, and removing it resolved a lot of apparent bugs in KSPI's nuclear and thermal stuff)

L49[02:42:08] <SporkWitch> that said, I'm glad i had it on that last run, because with all those passes, it ended up using almost half of the ablator on the 2.5m heat shield. i've no doubt that the SERVICE BAY would have been toast, and all the science instruments lost (really makes a difference on the recovery value heh)

L52[02:47:29] <Izaya> I need to work out some way to predict which launch I should do next, repeatedly putting the LH2 tanker on the pad and running time forward to find out whether I get a launch window or have to execute a maneuver first gets old

L53[02:48:07] <Izaya> This time they're at the same time so I can't do the launch and run the maneuver, it'll have to wait till next orbit >.>

L55[02:50:45] <SporkWitch> i think astrogator can do stations and stuff, not just moons and planets. It'll give you launch windows. That is the hardest thing, though, getting those timings. I honestly find it easier to just overengineer a little and make sure i have the spare ΔV for the plane change. For other planets, there's enough forgiveness due to distance that the launch window is pretty wide, and you can make

L56[02:50:51] <SporkWitch> cheap, efficient mid-course corrections

L57[02:52:58] <Izaya> I was going to have kOS run the clock forward an orbit and check the positions of the craft I care about (two LKO stations and a nuclear shuttle, for now)

L58[02:53:20] <Izaya> my "launch window" is when the craft is 15 degrees west of the KSC, because that means I can get a transfer within one orbit

L59[02:54:30] <Izaya> assuming the ascent isn't too long, anyway

L60[02:58:28] <SporkWitch> i've started doing my stations at about 200km, since it's still LKO, but i like doing my launches to 100km (provides margin if the launch wasn't ideal and maybe i have to push the apoapsis up over 70 to still circularize). Still provides plenty of space for phasing to make a reasonably fast rendesvous, without checking first.

L61[02:58:58] <Izaya> I have a kOS script to timewarp to the launch window :p

L62[03:01:27] <Izaya> hmm okay maybe this calendar thinger will be harder than I thought

L63[03:01:29] <Izaya> wonderful

L64[03:01:58] <SporkWitch> just make sure to watch out for Y2K :P

L65[03:03:25] <Izaya> the problem is the same as I was having with my landing script; normalising the relative positions of spacecraft and planets to their positions in the future

L66[03:07:37] <SporkWitch> yeah, i understand it conceptually, but haven't actually messed around with it, so have no specific advice

L67[03:08:03] <Izaya> the real solution would be "have enough of an understanding of maths to solve this problem sanely" but I am dumb

L68[03:08:09] <SporkWitch> if i saw code i might be able to improve its efficiency, but you're not really needing to improve your code's efficiency, but rather the calculations to reach the answer

L69[03:08:33] <SporkWitch> heh, basically what i just said, yep

L70[03:13:16] <packbart> Izaya: something like https://github.com/MuMech/MechJeb2/blob/dev/MechJeb2/MechJebModuleAscentAutopilot.cs#L613 ?

L71[03:13:46] <packbart> or some other part of MJ. There's maths everythere!11

L72[03:13:51] <Izaya> aah!

L73[03:13:55] <SporkWitch> mechjeb's ascent is less than awesome, and i've never gotten the rendesvous timing on it to work, even following the instructions from the dev lol

L74[03:13:59] <packbart> it's a bit convoluted in parts, though

L75[03:14:33] <SporkWitch> (never mind the fact that using the rendesvous ascent option requires doing a NON-rendesvous ascent to equatorial orbit, THEN revert to launch, THEN enable rendesvous, and it STILL jacks it up! lol)

L76[03:14:47] <Izaya> this is potentially much simpler

L77[03:14:59] <packbart> SporkWitch: Launch to plane works fine, launch to rendezvous is a bit weird because you need to set a target altitude

L78[03:15:15] <packbart> I only use the fomer, if ever, tbbh

L79[03:15:23] <Izaya> what if instead of walking time forwards, I instead measure how fast things are moving (angle-wise) and then give a rough estimate?

L80[03:15:35] <SporkWitch> (and you have to do this every time! it's not like it remembers it for that particular saved ship, so you ALWAYS have to do the "training" launch, revert, then do the rendesvous launch)

L81[03:15:53] <Izaya> simplicity itself, simple multiplication and division, no time-consuming calculations

L82[03:17:04] <SporkWitch> couldn't say; i've never done the maths on this stuff, and most of it's trig and calculus, which I never had a good instructor for and never really learned

L83[03:23:52] <SporkWitch> who was it that brought up SUSIE the other day? lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_sOrXaCfKs

L84[03:33:34] <Izaya> sweet, https://shadowkat.net/tmp/4f53.png

L85[03:36:39] <Izaya> stick that in my automatic rendezvous script just before each burn, so I know whether I have enough time to do whatever launch I want to do

L86[03:37:20] <SporkWitch> i assume kOS let's you import from other files, so you don't have to manually copy it in, but rather can import and call it, like any normal programming language?

L87[03:37:46] <SporkWitch> (gotta copy it to storage, yeah, but i mean import and call a function, rather than manually copying the code itself into the main launch file)

L88[03:41:31] <Izaya> it does, in the worst way possble

L89[03:41:46] <Izaya> (you run it, and the functions you create are put into the global environment)

L90[03:41:57] <Izaya> I was just gonna run the whole script

L91[03:41:59] <SporkWitch> they definitely made some weird syntax choices; i mentioned the other day that use of periods instead of semicolons is going to drive me absolutely insane lol

L93[03:42:32] <SporkWitch> lol

L94[03:43:08] <raptop> . o O (writing a kOS compiler in kOS)

L96[03:44:54] <SporkWitch> raptop: why not? after all, remember the old definition of Windows? 32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

L97[03:46:54] <SporkWitch> Izaya: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OmOwSB7xP8 you'll like this, he apparently posted this earlier today. Video came out a bit ago, but I get the feeling he's going to share some of the maths and code used. Might help your project

L98[03:47:24] <SporkWitch> (haven't watched any of it yet, literally JUST showed up on "suggested" when I hit refresh)

L99[03:49:01] <SporkWitch> (when i say video came out a bit ago, i mean that video from like a month or so ago of him finally getting his model rocket to land spacex falcon style)

L101[04:25:02] <Althego> !outcome help

L102[04:25:02] <LunchBot> Commands are: help, list, add <outcome>, del[ete] <search>, fixup s/<old>/<new>/, [get] [<search>]. I am operated by FLHerne.

L103[04:25:08] <Althego> !outcome unionize

L104[04:25:08] <LunchBot> No outcome found matching "unionize".

L105[04:25:17] <Althego> !mission unionize

L106[04:25:17] <LunchBot> No mission found matching "unionize".

L107[04:25:20] <Althego> !mission union

L108[04:25:21] <LunchBot> You attempt to fire your rockets without advance notice, against union layoff agreements.

L109[04:25:27] <Althego> !outcome union

L110[04:25:28] <LunchBot> No outcome found matching "union".

L114[05:35:33] <XXCoder> ;mission

L115[05:35:34] <LunchBot> You taunt Scott Manley. Rocks fall from space, everyone dies.

L116[05:35:42] <XXCoder> scott has godlike powers

L117[05:35:46] <XXCoder> ;lunch

L118[05:35:46] <LunchBot> Latkes.

L119[05:36:01] <XXCoder> interesting

L120[05:51:27] <Izaya> No godlike powers, just martian stealth composites

L121[05:53:58] <Althego> do not taunt the magic boulder (and scott)

L122[05:54:55] <XXCoder> lol

L123[05:55:09] <XXCoder> is magic boulder secretly scott

L125[07:32:09] <Izaya> building rovers that can land vertically is ... difficult.

L126[08:18:39] <Althego> still easier than landing horizontally on duna

L127[08:18:59] <XXCoder> just crash and stay alive

L128[08:19:01] <XXCoder> easiest of all

L129[08:19:05] <Althego> lol

L130[08:20:21] <Izaya> probably should've expected that I'd end up deploying two rovers instead of one, but this is fine too

L138[11:37:17] <Althego> local leet time

L139[11:40:34] <Althego> too bad the dart impact is around midnight in euorpe

L140[11:40:49] <Althego> but it is coming soon

L141[11:53:26] <darsie> I'll be awake.

L142[12:00:57] <Izaya> like 7AM here

L143[12:05:15] <packbart> Izaya: do they need to take off again? but yeah, I found balancing and plume clearance a bit difficult for larger rovers

L144[12:05:29] <packbart> hm. https://youtu.be/9C6RTfytKbs?t=47 old one

L145[12:05:38] <Izaya> no, but as it was, it spins

L146[12:06:03] <Izaya> instead I put two of them on hinges so I can deploy them from a more traditional lander

L163[17:46:36] <raptop> ooh https://dart.jhuapl.edu/

L170[19:53:52] <Guest73183> hi

L171[19:54:05] <Guest73183> its jameskerman2011

L172[19:54:35] <Guest73183> op gtg

L174[19:55:32] <Pinkbeast> He taught us so much

L175[19:55:44] <Althego> lol