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L2[00:11:24] <JVFoxy> from mun surface to
orbit..
L3[00:11:39] <JVFoxy> delta v map only gives
value for 14km orbit.. but my station is 260 or so
L4[00:26:21] <SporkWitch> ah, not sure.
consider that 800 can be enough for a return to kerbin, so maybe?
don't forget RCS, as well, can sometimes make the difference
L5[00:28:26] <JVFoxy> oh I know RCS..
although it would take some time since they the smaller ports
L6[00:28:53] <JVFoxy> I've found the larger
quads tend to be a little too much power for starter stuff
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L19[01:50:33] <JVFoxy> nope.. 800 dv isn't
enough, having to use up most of my rcs to get boost orbit a
bit
L20[01:50:57] <JVFoxy> this may end up
turning into a test run..
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L23[02:08:19] <Izaya> just right
L24[02:11:17] <JVFoxy> and just
docked...
L25[02:11:56] <JVFoxy> although.. when i
came out of unpause earlier. my 'land on mun' contract reverted to
'uncompleted', despite me actually sitting on the Mun itself
L26[02:12:15] <JVFoxy> I actually saw the
check box 'untick itself'. :\
L27[02:15:37] <JVFoxy> oh. n/m.. it
actually completed in the other part.. phew
L28[02:23:29] <JVFoxy> ok I guess this
turning into an actual mission.. time to go home
L29[02:23:58] <JVFoxy> makes me wonder
though: how low did the fuel in the tanks get during actual real
life missions
L30[02:24:16] <JVFoxy> well other than the
11 landing.. since people seem to make that such a big deal
L31[02:29:25] <Izaya> I don't remember any
of the others eating into the safety margins, but I could be
wrong
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L34[02:36:06] <JVFoxy> oh uh.. whoops, so I
landed, but science got left behind in lander can. :\
L35[02:36:26] <JVFoxy> I thought crew
carried it with them when they transffered ships..
L36[02:36:54] <JVFoxy> fortunately I could
just send out a robotic mission to the station and get it..
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L42[03:22:15] <Izaya> Nope, unless you tell
them to take the science it's kept in the pod
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L47[03:49:36] ⇨
Joins: devBlaze (webchat@162.0.200.137)
L48[03:49:47] <devBlaze> Hello?
L49[03:50:29] <Althego> hi
L50[03:51:20] <devBlaze> I am new to KSP,
this entire community and rocket science in general.
L51[03:51:20] <devBlaze> I am having some
issues with Kerbal Space Program tutorials in the most recent
version of the game - they're simply broken. Is there any sort of
fix to this that anyone knows?
L52[03:52:15] <raptop> yes, do you mean the
missing LV-T45?
L53[03:52:17] <devBlaze> Additionally, I
have a weird bug where I press space at the launch pad to ignite
and take off the pad, but my engines just make a "woosh"
sound and do nothing.
L54[03:52:28] <devBlaze> Yes, I am talking
about the missing lv-t45.
L55[03:52:45] <Althego> that bug was never
fixed unfortunately
L56[03:53:02] <devBlaze> Are there any
methods I can use to obtain that engine to complete the
tutorial?
L57[03:53:09] <raptop> that second one
probably isn't a bug, I can think of a few things: raising the
throttle (shift, or z to max it out), checking that your engines
have all the relevant propellants (fuel+oxidizer for most liquid
fuel engines)
L58[03:53:50] <devBlaze> I see, I wasn't
aware of the "fuel+oxidizer" thing.
L59[03:53:50] <devBlaze> Is there a discord
for Kerbal Space Program that you guys are active in, or do you
only use this place?
L60[03:53:55] <raptop> There are, one way
is messing with the advanced settings for selecting parts (click
the triangle at the upper left portion of the parts window, and go
down to filtering by tech level. the engines will be at level
2)
L61[03:54:10] <raptop> I think there's a
dischord somewhere?
L62[03:54:21] <devBlaze> Do you guys mainly
use this chat room?
L63[03:54:26] <devBlaze> I've never heard
of 'TheLounge"
L64[03:54:47] <Izaya> thelounge is an IRC
client, one of many
L65[03:55:02] <raptop> thelounge sounds
like another channel on espernet (the IRC server we're in)
L67[03:55:38] <devBlaze> Oh thank you! Let
me see if I can't get this installed and working, you guys have
been awesome and helpful.
L68[03:55:44] <raptop> :D
L69[03:56:06] <devBlaze> Additionally, I am
a hobbiest developer on Roblox - and I've been getting into
areonautics.
L71[03:56:30] <devBlaze> Well, it doesn't
embed and that's unfortunate.
L72[03:56:43] <raptop> Afraid I'm not very
familiar with roblox. Looks like a falcon 9 recreation?
L73[03:56:55] <raptop> (I mean, the link
shows up fine and I can just click on it...)
L74[03:57:31] <devBlaze> Be careful
clicking random links! *I'm sure you know*
L75[03:57:38] <devBlaze> But yes, that's
right.
L76[04:00:20] <devBlaze> Well, I appreciate
all the help guys. I don't know if you'll see me here again
unfortunately - this is sort of a hassle rather than just using
Discord to me.
L77[04:00:36] <raptop> hrm
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L79[04:06:49] <raptop> !8ball Should I do
some sort of vaguely serious campaign at some point?
L80[04:06:50] <LunchBot> No chance.
L81[04:06:56] <raptop> well then
L82[04:07:49] <devBlaze> I tell you what, I
actually sort of like this little chatting thing.
L83[04:07:50] <devBlaze> PLus you'
L84[04:08:03] <devBlaze> Plus you're
helpful; how long have you been playing KSP?
L85[04:09:28] <raptop> aaaaaaa
L86[04:09:51] <raptop> Sometime in July
2011 >_>
L87[04:10:03] <raptop> Though I'll admit
not very much for the past few years
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L89[04:10:43] <devBlaze> Dang man, I admit
I have always admired space but have been naive to the science
involved behind getting there.
L90[04:10:56] <devBlaze> Something I am
looking forward to learning and experiencing though.
L91[04:11:16] <raptop> Fortunately, there
are lots of resources available
L92[04:12:06] <devBlaze> I see all these
peoples amazing creations; and I open the VAB and realize those
guys are insane.
L93[04:12:58] <raptop> There's a lot of
clever artistry, though also sometimes it's just getting a handle
on Δv and TWR
L94[04:14:18] <devBlaze> Considering I had
to google both of those things, probably indicates I'm in for the
time of my life.
L95[04:14:27] <devBlaze> google what
both*
L96[04:15:10] <Izaya> wanna see something
cool?
L98[04:15:57] <JVFoxy> ya but then.. how
many parts is their creation and how much is the PC crying cuz its
overloaded
L99[04:17:07] <devBlaze> I have a pretty
great computer, so I'm excited to see what Kerbal Space Program can
handle what I throw at it!
L100[04:17:18] <JVFoxy> I nearly had to
revert a mission because nearly running on fumes. Surprisingly, the
RCS helped quite a lot in that Mun orbit
L101[04:17:46] <raptop> To provide some
context for devBlaze, Izaya has a mod installed (kOS) that lets you
write various cripts, and used one for that rendezvous
L102[04:17:49] <Izaya> KSP is the reason I
had to upgrade to a board that could take 32GB of memory
>.>
L103[04:17:51] <JVFoxy> I just updated
mine with some help.. I kind of wanna try Space Engineers..
L104[04:17:55] <raptop> JVFoxy: woot
L105[04:18:06] <devBlaze> Awesome, what
code is KSP in>
L106[04:18:18] <Izaya> Space Engineers is
the road to madness
L107[04:18:21] <JVFoxy> then again, I
wanna try clouds in KSP again. Last time, PC was choking on
something for some reason
L108[04:18:54] <devBlaze> I should
probably get some hours before buying the DLC's huh.
L109[04:18:58] <SporkWitch> Izaya: facts.
The production chain alone is just a nightmare, even with the build
planner stuff they eventually added. What really drives me nuts,
though, is just how BIG things end up so fast
L110[04:19:17] <Izaya> What really annoys
me is the intentional artifical limitations
L111[04:19:19] <JVFoxy> maybe it was my
GPU... back had just the HD7790, now its secondary to my
RX580
L112[04:19:33] <SporkWitch> devBlaze: KSP
DLC or Space Engineers DLC? KSP DLCs are absolutely worthwhile
immediately, no reason to put them off. They compliment every stage
of the game.
L113[04:19:44] <Izaya> Specifically, being
unable to automatically jump using programmable blocks.
L114[04:19:59] <devBlaze> KSP DLC, I don't
have the courage to do space engineers yet.
L115[04:20:02] <Izaya> Sure, have it
disabled by default. Even have it disabled without mods. But if you
can't write a mod that allows it you're really reaching
L116[04:20:05] <SporkWitch> Space
Engineers they're pretty much all cosmetic, if I'm not mistaken.
Although some of those cosmetics have gameplay benefits in the form
of different slot layouts, making for more freedom in builds.
L117[04:20:21] <devBlaze> Oh, appears I
was misleaded by my friends then.
L118[04:20:52] <JVFoxy> Well for me right
now its a toss up between S.E. and Empyrion.. mostly cuz I've
watched someone play stock Empyion and reforged with friends
L119[04:20:53] <SporkWitch> Space
Engineers doesn't require courage, it requires patience. It's all
fake physics. They couldn't even be bothered to do a sane orbit
system, they literally have the sun itself move around the outside
of the play area.
L120[04:21:05] <devBlaze> So question
guys; does NASA have a KSP equivalant program to simulate space
flight?
L121[04:21:31] <JVFoxy> I think they'd
have sims for specific tasks, not an 'does everything' sorta
dael
L122[04:21:47] <raptop> They have GMAT
among other things
L123[04:22:07] <JVFoxy> when it comes to
orbits, its probably something more with numbers and figures, only
some visual representation thrown in
L124[04:22:07] <SporkWitch> The only thing
that matters in terms of design are that your thrusters' direction
matters, but that's about it. More thrust in X direction means you
can change your velocity in that direction more, faster. If you're
in gravity, you do need to worry about total thrust to offset
weight for that body, but it's all brute force. You could put 10
down-facing thrusters on your butt (think the motor on
L125[04:22:21] <Izaya> I'm p sure a lot of
the tools they use are available publicly
L126[04:22:33] <SporkWitch> a dingy, but
thrust facing down, relative to the boat) and that works just fine,
just need your magic gyro (can also place anywhere) to keep you
level
L128[04:23:13] <Izaya> SE's jank physics
does allow for some neat stuff, like having hover bikes be a
practical sort of thing to build early-game
L129[04:23:40] <devBlaze> Hey that GSFC
thing is neat
L130[04:23:50] <JVFoxy> neither SE or
Empyrion deals with aerodynamics if I recall?
L131[04:24:17] <JVFoxy> I think Emp did,
briefly, or maybe it was a mod or just with specific parts like
wings
L132[04:24:27] <SporkWitch> JVFoxy: re: SE
vs Empyrion, they both have their pros and cons. I'm not sure which
is better, really. In terms of designing working stuff, SE's
definitely better, but Empyrion feels less frustrating because of
the simplified production chain and the fact ships don't end up
MASSIVE almost instantly. The big negative is "magic"
atmosphere, though. Not enough games do atmosphere right, with
only
L133[04:24:30] <Izaya> There's a mod for
wings in SE ... they're thrusters that put out more thrust the
faster they're moving forwards.
L134[04:24:32] <SporkWitch> SE and
Stationeers coming to mind.
L135[04:25:06] <SporkWitch> Yeah, there's
a mod in SE for wings and props; they work REALLY weird, like even
by KSP standards of aerodynamics lol
L136[04:25:20] <JVFoxy> I've this itch to
a ship I've had in my head for a long while..
L137[04:25:39] <JVFoxy> sorta an RP thing
I do else wheres online
L138[04:27:15] <JVFoxy> guessing orbit
side ship building isn't going to be a thing IRL till we can extra
resources from places like the moon..
L139[04:27:35] <JVFoxy> ...
extra->extract whoops
L141[04:39:37] <Althego> but the owl is
still singing
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L145[05:10:41]
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L146[05:10:55] <devBlaze> I am back!
L147[05:11:49] <Althego> 1/5 launches
done
L148[05:16:49] <devBlaze> UmbralRaptop I
MADE MY FIRST ROCKET TO ORBIT!
L150[05:17:10] <devBlaze> However, these
kerbals are dead.
L151[05:17:14] <devBlaze> No way of coming
home, lol.
L152[05:17:57] <raptop> Hrm, speed looks
low enough that it's probably a suborbital hop
L153[05:19:30] <devBlaze> Is there a way
to see my trajectory?
L154[05:20:10] <raptop> The map (press m
to toggle) will show it
L157[05:22:41] <devBlaze>
Interesting.
L158[05:23:02] <devBlaze> Ignore my
budget, poorly engineered falcon 9 heavy.
L159[05:23:10] <raptop> Heh
L160[05:23:27] <devBlaze> How did I manage
to get the top decouplers attached but not the bottoms?
L161[05:24:28] <raptop> An unfortunate
limitation of the way the game handles connections is that you can
only have one decoupler attachment. In general the suggestion for
reinforcing connections is to use strts (the EAS-4 strut connector,
or the autostrut setting)
L162[05:25:35] <devBlaze> In what
orientation can I do the strut connector?
L163[05:25:42] <JVFoxy> falcon heavy might
be a little ... too much for little ol' kerbin
L164[05:26:11] <raptop> Something
something Δv for a Kerbin -> Mun -> Kerbin mission is less
than for getting to LEO in real life
L165[05:26:36] <raptop> For the strut
connector, it should just work with clicking it on one part, then
onto another
L167[05:28:23] <devBlaze> She's defintely
a bit wobbly
L168[05:29:35] <raptop> Should be somewhat
less with them. If nothing else, more struts (somewhat spread out)
will help. Also, good news with the struts -- they'll automatically
dis connect when you stage the boosters
L170[05:31:28] <devBlaze> Here is a
massive fail of the decouple.
L171[05:31:32] <devBlaze> I decoupled too
soon.
L172[05:31:37] <devBlaze> Totally didn't
think, lol.
L173[05:31:50] <raptop> heh, oops
L174[05:32:07] <JVFoxy> hated back in the
day, when as soon as you radial decouped, the part would hit
infinite drag and slam back into your rocket >_<
L175[05:32:19] <devBlaze> I saved my
kermin!
L176[05:32:51] <JVFoxy> then again.. the
days when the mainsail would overheat, or push so hard into your
rocket it would shrink.. lol
L178[05:33:34] <devBlaze> Hmm.
L179[05:33:42] <devBlaze> time to explore
every piece in the game
L180[05:33:43] <raptop> I *want* to say it
was a combination of the mainsail's heat generation, the size of
the orange tank, and the somewhat limited heat simulation
L181[05:34:07] <raptop> There are a lot of
parts to explore
L182[05:35:49] <devBlaze> How do I create
a stage in which this rocket seperates, and my crew capsule has a
small fuel tank and booster?
L183[05:35:59] <devBlaze> I don't seen any
enclosed structural parts.
L184[05:36:24] <raptop> Like a payload
fairing?
L185[05:37:13] <JVFoxy> Oh right.. the
'orange tank' issue back then.. lol
L187[05:37:40] <raptop> Alternatively, if
you mean vertical stages, check out the stack decouplers
L188[05:37:42] <JVFoxy> stage
separators?
L189[05:37:57] <raptop> Yeah, stack
decouplers then
L190[05:38:02] <devBlaze> Neat.
L191[05:38:15] <JVFoxy> shrouds are
automatic on engines next to separators.. but can be toggled if
don't need them
L193[05:38:36] <devBlaze> Ah this thing is
working like a charm.
L194[05:39:33] <JVFoxy> when I use an
engine too small for the tanks, I use the stack separator that
matches the engine and a fairing that matches the tank. Though when
doing that you can eliminate the fairing stage, optionally
L196[05:40:12] <devBlaze> WOOHOO!
L197[05:40:17] <devBlaze> MY FIRST
DECOUPLE!
L198[05:41:05] <raptop> grats
L200[05:41:07] <devBlaze> Hmm
L201[05:41:24] <raptop> Going to be quite
a ride for those kerbals
L202[05:41:25] <JVFoxy> so.. you went
straight up the whole way huh?
L203[05:41:54] <raptop> To be fair,
they've only been playing the game for a few hours and it's not
like we've gone over much orbital mechanics
L204[05:42:27] <devBlaze> Yes, uh.,
L206[05:44:40] <raptop> The extremely
short version is that orbit is about going sideways fast (2296 m/s
at 70 km, 2246 m/s at 100 km, etc), and you only need enough
altitude to clear the atmosphere (70 km for Kerbin)
L207[05:46:46] <JVFoxy> looking at some
pics I took in past versions of KSP.. oh ya forgot about the 'boat
to the arctic' experiment..
L208[05:47:29] <devBlaze> Well I was
surprised when I found this was a thing;
L210[05:48:24] <raptop> Yep, that's an
engine shroud that JVFoxy mentioned
L212[05:49:11] <devBlaze> Does anyone have
advice for this super module of this rocket?
L213[05:49:35] <devBlaze> I have the
RV-105 mutli trust RCS on both sides.
L214[05:49:39] <devBlaze> With two fuel
cells.
L216[05:49:59] <JVFoxy> stupid
experiments..
L217[05:50:24] <raptop> RCS is useful for
turning craft, though the engines have pretty meh specific impulse.
You can turn it on/off with the R key
L218[05:50:43] <raptop> bote
L219[05:55:01] <devBlaze> So dont set the
SLS to Target
L220[05:55:04] <devBlaze> and select
moon
L221[05:55:05] <devBlaze> then take
off
L222[05:55:13] <devBlaze> or else you pop
a 90 degree turn
L223[05:55:15] <devBlaze> then die
L224[05:55:34] <raptop> F
L225[05:57:58] *
raptop mostly uses fixed heading, though on rare occasions prograde
and retrograde
L226[06:01:06] <JVFoxy> more to just keep
the ship from turn drifting..
L227[06:01:35] <devBlaze> I see I have
massive misscalculated the needed fuel.
L229[06:01:44] <devBlaze> to reach
orbit
L230[06:01:45] <JVFoxy> I just wish SAS
had a surface mode for planes...
L231[06:02:31] <raptop> [insert long rant
here about designing for stability so you can fly with SAS off for
planes]
L233[06:02:54] <devBlaze> So
L234[06:03:03] <devBlaze> This isn't orbit
correct?
L235[06:03:14] <devBlaze> Since my flight
plan ends with me hitting the planet.
L236[06:03:22] <devBlaze> What do I need
to do to get to orbit?
L237[06:03:52] <JVFoxy> @raptop no my
gripe is how depending on the build tree on planes, sometimes you
get odd-ball forces that wants to roll the plane while not in SAS
mode, so you gotta turn it on anyways or do the whole 'desert bus'
deal
L238[06:04:11] <raptop> If you still have
fuel for that craf, wait until you're at roughly the Ap marker, and
burn prograde (the -o- marker)
L239[06:04:23] <raptop> ah, that
L240[06:04:35] ⇦
Quits: devBlaze (webchat@162.0.200.137) (Quit:
webchat.esper.net)
L241[06:05:06] <JVFoxy> @devblaze getting
orbit isn't just about going up... idea is to get enough velocity
that as you fall, you keep missing the surface.. or at least that's
one way people put it
L242[06:05:27] <JVFoxy> oh.. missed.
:\
L243[06:05:45] <raptop> I suspect that
he'll be back.
L244[06:05:50] *
raptop might not be awake then, though
L245[06:05:51] <JVFoxy> btw.. has it
always been called 'gravity turn' back in the old days or?
L246[06:06:14] <JVFoxy> can't say I really
remember hearing it till KSP has been around for a while
L247[06:06:18] <raptop> AFAIK, that's a
correct term for real rockets. You'll also see 'zero lift
turn'
L248[06:06:47] <JVFoxy> guess I'd just
been so used to them saying 'roll program'. or something
L249[06:09:10] <raptop> I want to say that
the roll program was a big thing with the shuttle because it was
very much not circularly symmetric, and had to launch from a fixed
direction
L251[06:09:48]
⇨ Joins: devBlaze (webchat@162.0.200.137)
L252[06:09:52] <raptop> wb
L253[06:10:00] <devBlaze> My ISP, is doing
maintence.
L254[06:10:09] <devBlaze> I currently have
a 1/gb up/down
L255[06:10:17] <JVFoxy> mini-massexodus..
or something. Reminds me that comment Elon said, 'to launch 100
people at a time into orbit'... uhhh. sure
L256[06:10:17] <devBlaze> They're putting
in a 5gb, so I may have to upgrade.
L257[06:10:27] <JVFoxy> oh wb
L258[06:10:35] <raptop> JVFoxy: that's a
lot of tourists
L259[06:11:01] <JVFoxy> @raptop ya..
stupid things kept showing up. I guess I ended up with something of
a rep back then
L260[06:11:05] *
raptop has no idea what I'd do with 5 gigs, run a
server?
L261[06:11:16] <devBlaze> I have a home
Nas, yes!
L262[06:11:28] <raptop> fair enough
L263[06:11:30] <devBlaze> I run various
coding projects, host websites, discord bots.
L264[06:11:34] <devBlaze> I have my own
streaming service.
L265[06:11:41] <devBlaze> 😎
L266[06:11:46] <JVFoxy> 5gigs can run how
many VR setups?
L267[06:11:57] <devBlaze> I can host LAN
parties easily.
L268[06:12:00] <JVFoxy> seems to be a bit
of a rage lately..
L269[06:12:04] <JVFoxy> DCS anyone?
L270[06:12:32] *
raptop should probably get a joystick at some point
L271[06:12:40] <JVFoxy> -drags out old
flight yoke.. oh wait.. n/m. Its still got the gameport connector..
crap
L272[06:12:41] <devBlaze> So raptop what
is the origin of your name? Also what do these stars mean?
L273[06:13:15] *
JVFoxy wees
L274[06:13:24] <devBlaze> How are you
doing that hmm?
L276[06:13:37] <raptop> the stars are an
action thing -- type "/me action" (minus quotes) to do
the action
L277[06:13:45] <JVFoxy> its a 'pose'..
good ol irc.. use /me <whatever.
L279[06:14:50] <JVFoxy> oh fun
L280[06:15:08] <JVFoxy> so.. ever heard of
'space raptors'?
L281[06:15:27] <devBlaze> What about,
raptor engines?
L282[06:15:36] <devBlaze> Sounded funnier
in my head.
L283[06:15:43] <devBlaze> Yikes,
awkward.
L284[06:15:44] <devBlaze> Well
L285[06:15:44] <devBlaze> uh
L286[06:16:02] <devBlaze> How do I make a
space station
L287[06:16:02] <devBlaze> hmm
L290[06:16:26] <devBlaze> Also what the
hell are the point of these cargo flairs?
L291[06:16:34] <devBlaze> Can I even get
cargo places?
L292[06:16:40] <JVFoxy> fairings?
L293[06:16:42] <devBlaze> yes that.
L294[06:16:44] <JVFoxy> put things in
them
L295[06:16:47] <JVFoxy> build your
probe
L296[06:16:53] <JVFoxy> put a decoupler
under
L297[06:16:56] <devBlaze> I have to build
the prob too?
L298[06:16:57] <devBlaze> Damn
L299[06:17:01] <JVFoxy> fairing part, then
build fairing around it.
L300[06:17:02] <devBlaze> KSP really in
depth huh
L301[06:17:36] <JVFoxy> eh.. you get probe
cores.. but you have to attach parts that'll let it live. solar
power panels, battery usually a good start
L302[06:18:23] <raptop> Making a space
station is at least in part declaring "this is a
station". In career mode, you may be given a contract for
specific parts. In sandbox, it's what you think is
useful/interesting. Stuff like crew cabins, solar panels, the
cupola, docking ports, the science processing lab, etc are
popular.
L303[06:18:44] <raptop> That said, this
gets into what's needed for orbital rendezvous and docking
L304[06:18:57] <raptop> hrm, neat
song
L305[06:19:31] <devBlaze> Hmm maybe I
should just
L306[06:19:34] <devBlaze> Try out
career
L307[06:19:37] <devBlaze> Give it a
wing
L308[06:19:42] <devBlaze> Since I sort of
got this figured out.
L309[06:19:52] <devBlaze> Shit, I have to
dock stuff too.
L310[06:20:02] <devBlaze> Can I do
autopilot if I don't want to do that stuff?
L311[06:20:58] <JVFoxy> @raptop I don't
remember how I came across AW... maybe caught one or a few songs
from a game a number of years back
L312[06:21:06] <raptop> Not in the base
game, though there are mods with additional automation
L313[06:22:27] <raptop> I lean towards
recommending science mode for new players over career, simply to
avoid the annoyances of dealing with funding limitations and the
lack of instrumentation
L314[06:22:41] <JVFoxy> lol.. what was
that pic I saw a while back... it was a graph of someone's
knowledge level of orbital mechanics on a timeline and what
games/things they came across. KSP made it basically go straight
up
L316[06:23:38] <JVFoxy> ya that's
it..
L317[06:24:22] <JVFoxy> with me though..
it was space shuttle's early days, getting MS Spacesim, then things
sat in limbo till I got hands on KSP
L318[06:26:03] <JVFoxy> KSP is great, but
there are times I worry the learning curve is crazy steep for some
people. Shame no ones done a sort of KSP for beginners or something
like..
L319[06:29:46] <raptop> The ingame
tutorials were an attempt, shame about the bugs
L320[06:30:45] <SporkWitch> not so much
bug, from my experience, as they still require you to use old
versions of modules that don't normally show or are easily missed,
so you have to use the filter tools (lot of forum posts about it
and pointing people to how to proceed)
L321[06:30:57] <SporkWitch> not uncommon
with tutorials that won't let you fail, heh
L322[06:31:33] <JVFoxy> ah right... that
one work around
L323[06:31:51] <JVFoxy> mind you, I never
went into tutorials..
L324[06:33:33] <JVFoxy> a random pic I
took back in... 2016.. kerbal on Minmus, that camera angle of Mun
and Kerbin with sun on top. Though now I look at it, after years of
playing, a bit of a different meaning to me now:
https://imgur.com/a/2G4LQjO
L325[06:33:38] <devBlaze> Can I refuel a
rocket I have in orbit somehow?
L326[06:33:53] <JVFoxy> with the right
parts and and planning ya
L327[06:33:58] <raptop> ^
L328[06:34:02] <devBlaze> What parts do
those need to be?
L329[06:34:08] <devBlaze> I'm working on
the planning phase.
L330[06:34:16] <JVFoxy> matching docking
ports on both craft...
L332[06:34:21] <raptop> In general this
implies docking ports so you can rendezvous and transfer fuel
L333[06:34:28] <devBlaze> Okay
L334[06:34:28] <devBlaze> So
L335[06:34:32] <devBlaze> Docking ports to
transfer fuel
L336[06:34:50] <JVFoxy> and a way to dock
while in orbit.. might be a little advanced, might wanna just get
orbit first consistantly
L337[06:34:59] <raptop> ^very much
this
L338[06:35:01] <devBlaze> What are these
solar arrays need to do?
L339[06:35:06] <devBlaze> I've made it to
orbit 3-4 times now.
L340[06:35:13] <raptop> ah, good
L342[06:35:22] <devBlaze> Rocket
progress
L343[06:36:00] <JVFoxy> solar panels
generate power while pointed at the sun. A must have for probe
cores and batteries if things going to last for a long time up
there
L344[06:36:11] <raptop> The solar arrays
can be extended to provide electrical power/recharge batteries.
Generally electricity gets used by things like reaction wheels,
running probe cores, and/or transmitting science
L345[06:36:27] <JVFoxy> ah ya thanks for
filling in the gap for me
L346[06:36:37] <raptop> Uh, also some
motors for eg: rover wheels (or props with Breaking Ground)
L347[06:36:50] <devBlaze> Okay so, as it
stands.
L348[06:36:55] <devBlaze> My rocket
doesn't need them.
L349[06:37:11] <JVFoxy> well...
L350[06:37:17] <JVFoxy> depends on mission
profile
L351[06:37:25] <devBlaze> What is a
reaction wheels
L352[06:37:28] <raptop> They're not needed
for ascent. Possibly in orbit
L353[06:37:28] <devBlaze> wheel*
L354[06:37:33] <JVFoxy> short term, the
Mk3 can go for a bit with its own internal battery
L355[06:37:52] <JVFoxy> but if you wanna
keep things topped off, the smaller ones will suffice
L356[06:38:01] <raptop> They're a way of
turning spacecraft with gyros. In game terms, they mean you can
orient your craft without expending fuel (just electricity)
L357[06:38:24] <devBlaze> Well that's
fucking awesome.
L358[06:38:36] <raptop> Note that in-game
reaction wheels let you turn much faster / have much more torque
than their real world counterparts
L359[06:38:37] <devBlaze> Got it
noted.
L360[06:38:45] <JVFoxy> lol.. something
KSP doesn't teach, reaction wheel saturation.. granted its not an
issue in game so..
L361[06:39:08] <raptop> bleah, I have to
tap the whole language rule thing (since nominally we have to worry
about little kids in here and the forum rules)
L363[06:40:37] <JVFoxy> @raptop speaking
of which... did you catch what they realized on the real world
ones, why they kept failing?
L365[06:42:11] <JVFoxy> specifically the
ones with the metal bearings. Turns out electrical charges kept
zapping across, causing pot marks.. when they used ceramic ones, it
became less of an issue
L366[06:43:25] <JVFoxy> ya, in some cases,
it even caused the metal to fuse together..
L367[06:43:53] <raptop> yeah, spot welding
a bearing would cause problems
L368[06:44:33] *
raptop should try out the whole being unconcious thing
x_x
L369[06:45:17] <JVFoxy> thing is, its not
so much as an arc weld like you think down here..
L370[06:45:42] <JVFoxy> sometimes its many
little 'zaps', causes the surfaces to be come more irrgular..
L372[06:48:16] <JVFoxy> oh ya, it was that
Scott video that I found out about it..
L374[06:49:36] <devBlaze> is this a proper
take off JVFoxy
L375[06:49:58] <JVFoxy> ah ya cool
L376[06:50:39] <Izaya> cute domain
L377[06:50:43] <JVFoxy> throttling so you
don't end up wasting fuel pushing up to Max-Q?
L379[06:54:25] <devBlaze> Wow
L380[06:54:29] <devBlaze> I'm loving this
rocket.
L382[06:57:34] <JVFoxy> cool
L384[06:57:40] <JVFoxy> unfortunately it
seems sleep is claiming me as well
L385[06:57:52] <devBlaze> i finally
L386[06:57:52] <devBlaze> got a
L387[06:57:57] <devBlaze> thingy
L388[06:57:59] <devBlaze> time for
L389[06:58:01] <devBlaze> science
mode
L390[06:58:11] <JVFoxy> alright.. all
best.
L391[07:00:19] <devBlaze> raptop care to
give me some advice to get my kermin off of the rocket in orbit
atm?
L392[07:00:21] <devBlaze> lmfao
L394[07:05:33] ⇦
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L395[07:10:02] <Izaya> like, return to the
surface?
L396[07:11:23] <Izaya> assuming it's
empty, if you drop your Pe to 55-60km, then use the body of the
rocket to aerobrake for a nice smooth descent
L397[07:11:36] <Izaya> then you ditch the
majority of the rocket and just land the pod with your
parachutes
L398[07:11:48] <Izaya> once you're
travelling under the speed of sound
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L412[10:28:10] <Althego> 1 minute
L414[10:49:25] <Althego> a busy day
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L416[11:37:35] <darsie> 1337
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L422[13:56:00] <Althego> 1 minute
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L427[14:54:41] <packbart> is it Rocket
Launch Day?
L428[14:55:30] <Althego> 6 launches in 22
hours
L429[14:55:38] <Althego> 2 chinese, no
stream
L430[14:56:05] <Althego> no, in 20 hours
even
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L442[17:49:12] <devBlaze> I am back
😎
L444[17:49:27] <devBlaze> Working on
science mode as you suggested raptop
L445[17:49:40] <raptop> \o
L446[17:51:07] <devBlaze> What're you up
to, today?
L447[17:51:45] <packbart> !nela
L449[17:52:15] <Althego> linked the vide
hours ago
L451[17:52:30] <Althego> but about 5 hours
away
L452[17:52:40] <packbart> I was looking
for the schedule, tbh. I forgot the URL. ;)
L453[17:58:01] <Mat2ch> Uh, I might watch
that one. It will be late, but when it's 40° C it will not be cool
enough to sleep at midnight...
L454[17:58:03] <devBlaze> So, I am playing
in sciense mode and I've already done all of the experiments?
L455[17:58:09] <devBlaze> How do I get
more science points?
L456[17:58:19] <Althego> but you havent
watched the other 5?
L457[17:58:35] <Althego> ok 2 had no
stream
L458[17:58:48] *
raptop is nominally doing work-related things, but eh
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L460[17:59:51] <raptop> For gathering more
science, doing the experiments in different biomes/situations (eg:
landed vs splashed, mountains vs grassland vs shore vs ocean vs
icecaps, low altitude vs high altitude vs space low vs space
high)
L461[18:00:37] <Mat2ch> On Mun, Minmus and
further out.
L462[18:00:54] <Althego> minmus is a
treasure trove of science
L463[18:00:57] <Mat2ch> And each moon and
planet has their own biomes
L464[18:12:46] <devBlaze> I am getting
better at this rocket stuff.
L466[18:14:54] <packbart> does it stay in
orbit, yet? :)
L467[18:15:20] <devBlaze> uh i don't have
any parts to make a sattelite yet.
L468[18:15:39] <devBlaze> But I have
reached orbit in sandbox, so I am excited to see if I am able to
make a nice space station.
L469[18:15:50] <devBlaze> I am curious
about the whole docking and undocking thing, that is worrysome to
me.
L470[18:17:16] <packbart> eh, unless the
autostrut kraken comes out, docking and undocking is easy ;)
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L472[18:17:35] <packbart> bring lights,
though!
L473[18:18:02] <packbart> docking always
happens on the dark side. it's a law of orbital motion
orsomething
L474[18:19:25] <Mat2ch> yep. Bring
lights!
L475[18:21:29] <Althego> aziz,
light!
L477[18:24:48] <packbart> how did I do
that in stock? did I ever? I don't remember... :)
L479[18:27:52] <packbart> I really should
organize my screenshots, really soon now. but I don't want
to...
L480[18:29:42] <devBlaze> So, question the
lab portion of my rocket was destroyed whenever it hit the
water.
L482[18:29:46] <devBlaze> This area.
L483[18:30:00] <devBlaze> What can I do to
better prepare? I don't have airbreaks, I only have
parachutes.
L484[18:30:09] <Althego> probably too high
speed
L485[18:30:18] <Althego> water is not
forgiving
L486[18:30:21] <devBlaze> I go horizontal
on reentry for maximum drag, then when safe deploy
parachutes.
L487[18:30:33] <devBlaze> Should I try and
save some fuel for a re-entry burn?
L488[18:30:36] <devBlaze> To slow
down
L489[18:30:39] <packbart> and the Science
Jr thing is prone to explode
L490[18:30:54] <packbart> you're lucky it
even made it all the way to the water :)
L491[18:31:05] <devBlaze> im a useless
engineer
L492[18:31:05] <packbart> moar parachutes
works, too
L493[18:31:16] <devBlaze> lmao
L494[18:31:18] <devBlaze> Uh
L495[18:31:25] <devBlaze> So transmitting
data
L496[18:31:26] <devBlaze> Pointless?
L497[18:31:42] <devBlaze> you take a hard
hit from not recovering it
L498[18:32:05] <packbart> but the part you
transmitted is safe, even if the experiment doesn't make it
back
L499[18:32:05] <Althego> you cantake out
all t eh science
L500[18:32:10] <Althego> even reset it
with a scientist
L501[18:32:12] <packbart> that, too
L502[18:32:17] <Althego> but it is still
an expensive part
L503[18:32:30] <Althego> you could try
putting it on top
L504[18:33:06] <devBlaze> Questionj
L505[18:33:09] <packbart> science mode
knows no budgets ;)
L506[18:33:15] <devBlaze> What do these
heat raditors do?
L507[18:33:22] <devBlaze> Would I surround
my science pod in them?
L508[18:33:28] <devBlaze> Keep it from
getting so hot?
L509[18:33:38] <packbart> nah, that
doesn't work well enough
L510[18:33:45] <packbart> (in my
experience)
L511[18:33:58] <packbart> they can't
radiate their heat in the plasma stream
L512[18:34:13] <devBlaze> plasma stream
being the
L513[18:34:20] <devBlaze> heat caused from
re-entry
L514[18:34:25] <devBlaze> right?
L515[18:35:01] <packbart> go slow enough
not to heat up too much or bring a heatshield that covers the
diameter of the parts. and put some heat buffer between the shield
and the Science Jr
L516[18:35:06] <packbart> yeah
L517[18:36:00] <packbart> on a manned
mission in science mode, I'd probably take the data out of the box
into the capsule and ditch the bugger
L518[18:37:52] <devBlaze> :O
L519[18:38:08] <devBlaze> Remind me to not
work for your corporation.
L520[18:38:31] <devBlaze> I'm emtionally
attached to my kermin, they cannot die.
L521[18:38:43] <packbart> noo, I meant the
science experiment :)
L522[18:38:54] <devBlaze> lol
L523[18:38:57] <packbart> the Science Jr
is a pain to bring back ;)
L524[18:39:03] <devBlaze> Wait
L525[18:39:04] <devBlaze> so
L526[18:39:06] <devBlaze> how would
I
L527[18:39:07] <devBlaze> ditch it
L528[18:39:09] <devBlaze> Just
L529[18:39:18] <devBlaze> 🤔
L530[18:39:30] <packbart> with a
decoupler. put it on the stack that burns up on reentry
L531[18:39:41] <devBlaze> smart
L532[18:39:52] <Althego> later on you can
put it in a bigger service bay
L533[18:40:00] <Althego> that protects it
sufficiently
L535[18:40:32] <devBlaze> These are the
parts I have, I cannot make a space station yet huh?
L537[18:41:19] <packbart> no, you can't
make a space station without a docking port
L538[18:41:34] <Althego> usually power,
antenna, docking port
L539[18:41:48] <Althego> and then there
can be other mission criteria after these
L540[18:41:59] <Althego> hold x amount of
kerbals, y amount of fuel
L541[18:42:06] <devBlaze> science mode
doesnt really give me
L542[18:42:10] <devBlaze> objectives
L543[18:42:39] <Althego> collecting all
science is already a treendous amount of work
L544[18:42:44] <Althego> even just all
science from kerbin
L545[18:42:46] <packbart> true. so you
define yourself, what a station is :)
L547[19:20:17] <devBlaze> I'm getting
there. packbart
L549[19:28:30] <Althego> more than a year
without gtoger tow videos too
L550[19:30:47] <Mat2ch> People seem to
learn. Sad.
L551[19:31:01] <Althego> no, there is
probably some other reason
L552[19:34:31] <Althego> also no
wintergatan marble machine build videos
L553[19:41:16] ⇦
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L554[19:50:44] <Mat2ch> nah, he said he
wanted to grind the whole development
L555[19:50:56] <Mat2ch> I wonder if he
will ever finish that new machine
L556[19:52:40] <devBlaze> Doing some
science experiments in space 😎
L559[19:55:29] <Althego> survivied!
L560[19:55:31] <devBlaze> SURIVED WITH MY
SCIENCE PODS AND SERVICE BAYS!
L561[19:55:39] <devBlaze> SUPER
HAPPY
L562[19:56:17] <devBlaze> 74 research from
that successful mission
L563[19:56:18] <devBlaze> Awesome
L564[19:58:26] <raptop> nice
L565[20:10:01] ⇦
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L566[20:14:56] <Althego> immortal fire
chicken set the kitchen on fire, no stream
L567[20:16:50] ⇦
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Module Alpha Humana on approach to Space Station
Mercury)
L568[20:17:03] <raptop> F
L569[20:23:43] ⇦
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L571[20:32:22] <packbart> nobody died,
though, I assume?
L572[20:37:04] <raptop> that seems safe to
assume
L573[20:58:00]
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L574[21:29:03]
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L575[21:29:08] <devBlaze> How would I get
something like this into space?
L577[21:30:24] <Mat2ch> In several
launches ;)
L578[21:30:28] <SporkWitch> ideally, in
pieces
L579[21:30:37] <devBlaze> So, how would I
attach them in space?
L580[21:30:53] <Mat2ch> Add small docking
ports and bring a space tug.
L581[21:31:07] <Mat2ch> afterwards an
engineer can remove the docking ports
L582[21:31:30] <SporkWitch> those struts
are the worst part, since there's no good way to get them up
together, and getting them up separetly is wasteful and tedious.
Better to have the station ITSELF be the struts and build off of
that (just like the real space stations). There's a reason the
sections are all cylinders: so they're easy to launch, then you
attach them on end or to sides.
L583[21:32:20] <devBlaze> so
L584[21:32:25] <devBlaze> If I have a
space station.
L585[21:32:35] <devBlaze> And I want to
launch and get to it with more equipment.
L586[21:32:40] <SporkWitch> The enter key
is not a punctuation mark. Please use fewer lines, with complete
sentences on them.
L587[21:33:26] <devBlaze> So if I have a
space station, and I want to launch and get to it with more
equipment.
L588[21:33:26] <devBlaze> Does this mean I
need to start timing my launches?
L589[21:33:51] <devBlaze> * is there an
easy way to make sure I can reach it.
L590[21:34:05] <SporkWitch> if you're
building it on an equatorial orbit, no, timing just makes it so you
don't have to wait as long for a rendesvous, the delta-v is the
same.
L591[21:35:18] <SporkWitch> if you time
it, sure, that'll give you the most efficient rendesvous, but it's
not a massive difference, and it's much harder unless you're using
a mod that does the calculations for you
L592[21:36:54] <SporkWitch> If you don't,
then what you do is you get that 70km circular orbit, then you
start playing with the maneuver tool. Put a maneuver node on the
opposite side of your current orbit (just to give you time before
you reach it, so it doesn't mess things up while you're figuring it
out). Add prograde burn to it so your apoapsis is the same as the
station's orbit, now hit the "next orbit" (plus)
button
L593[21:37:32] <devBlaze> NEat.
L594[21:37:43] <SporkWitch> on the
maneuver tool until the rendesvous indicators are close together.
Now start fiddling with prograde, retrograde, and moving the time
of the burn forward and back. You want to get a rendesvous that's
not greater than 5km, ideally 1km or less.
L595[21:37:46] <devBlaze> Thanks for
giving me some information on things I need to make to have a
larger space station.
L596[21:37:48] <SporkWitch> g2g
L597[21:37:59] ⇦
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L598[21:38:02] <SporkWitch> i'll help you
more later if needed
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L602[22:24:23] <Mat2ch> He did, but a
reminder doesn't hurt.
L603[22:24:42] <Mat2ch> I guess I stay up
for it. Still around 30° C outside and its after midnight
L604[22:25:07] <SporkWitch> RIP; nearly
30C here as well, and 90% humidity. Thunderstorm nearby, but not
close enough to bring the temp down >_<
L605[22:25:18] <SporkWitch> feels like
mississippi, not new york
L606[22:26:24] <Mat2ch> Luckily it's
dry.
L607[22:26:47] <SporkWitch> definitely
makes the difference between bearable and misery
L608[22:26:58] <Mat2ch> On the other hand
everything is turning into desert.
L609[22:27:03] *
raptop hugs a/c
L610[22:27:13] *
Mat2ch steals raptops ac
L611[22:27:15] <raptop> (the concept. I'm
not going to hug a heat exchanger)
L612[22:27:28] <SporkWitch> thankfully i
do have AC, but even with proximity to Niagara, electric prices
have gone up significantly
L613[22:27:39] <SporkWitch> i try not to
run it, but with the heat this summer i've had to run it for nearly
two straight months >_<
L614[22:27:51] <SporkWitch> normally only
run it maybe 7 days total, when i'm forced to
L615[22:29:57] <Mat2ch> shouldn't you have
cheap hydro energy?
L616[22:30:16] ⇦
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L617[22:31:12] <SporkWitch> should is the
operative word; it's New York, the prices on everything have been
skyrocketing, never mind the taxes. They've been hemhoraging
population since even before the lockdowns and it's only
accelerated since. They're trying to make up for the lost tax
revenue and also make it more difficult for anyone that hasn't
already left to be able to afford to leave
L618[22:33:01] <SporkWitch> add in
inflation, and the massive federal tax hikes for everyone making
30k or more (read: nearly everyone with a job), and it'll be even
harder come next year. I'm going to need a new job that doubles my
current pay to manage it; i'll need at least a 50% increase just to
maintain living paycheck to paycheck with what i anticipate my rent
hike to be (20%, like it was this year) and the increased
L619[22:33:26] <SporkWitch> cost of
groceries (used to be 150/mo for me; now it's 250 for about a week
and a half to two weeks, and good luck finding meat at all)
L620[22:36:04] <SporkWitch> needless to
say, i've been doing a lot of eggs (up ~40% compared to this time
last year) and ramen (remarkably about the same price as last
year)
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L625[22:42:39] <Mat2ch> Well, I'm always
surprised how "cheap" groceries still are here. I even
found very cheap organic flour again.
L626[22:43:38] <Mat2ch> And there is no
real reason right now to increase the prices. I guess most
companies just took what they could take
L627[22:55:53] <Mat2ch> Stream
started
L629[22:56:06] <SporkWitch> (stream link
^)
L630[22:59:53] <Mat2ch> and it's just not
cooling down here
L631[23:00:05] <Mat2ch> temperature even
did rise
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L635[23:03:12] <SporkWitch> gamma ray
spectrometer and magnetometer! toss in scansat mod and we can
recreate this one ^^
L636[23:03:42] <Mat2ch> yeah, I had to
think of KSP here, too
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L638[23:04:18] <Mat2ch> The scans will be
really interesting
L639[23:04:22] <Mat2ch> and the 3d images,
too
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L641[23:10:06] <Mat2ch> the sonic
boom!
L642[23:10:11] <Mat2ch> well, not the
boom
L643[23:10:32] <Mat2ch> but it the
transition to super sonic was visible
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