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L5[01:23:37] <funkenstein> ;mission
L6[01:23:38] <LunchBot> You tire of rockets,
and decide to launch craft into space with a giant gun. Firefox
eats all your RAM before you can complete your mission.
L7[01:24:01] <SporkWitch> but it's
chrome that's known for being RAM-hungry, not firefox...
L8[01:24:17] <SporkWitch> also, people have
made physics guns in KSP that can get things into orbit lol
L9[01:29:19] <raptop> Yeah, firefox
isn't so bad these days
L10[01:45:49] <SporkWitch> i've been
using it since it was still just called "mozilla,"
it's never been RAM-hungry compared to Chrome; it's one
of the reasons it never really got a particularly good tab
suspension plugin, there was just no need (whereas the Great
Suspender was basically mandatory -- arguably still is, but they
broke it / it was compromised, so now there's just nothing,
chrome just eats your RAM)
L11[01:46:34] <SporkWitch> only complaint
with firefox is from a few years ago when they made it so you
couldn't hide the tab bar at the top anymore, so it's
some wasted screen real estate, since, like any sane person, i use
treestyle tabs
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L19[04:06:46] <Althego> guh
L20[04:14:57] <funkenstein> ;mission add
Your mother said "to get things done, you'd better not
mess with Major Tom."
L21[04:14:57] <LunchBot> Added mission:
Your mother said "to get things done, you'd better not
mess with Major Tom."
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L30[05:34:53] <XXCoder> ;mission
L31[05:34:53] <LunchBot> You replace the
Drill-O-Mattic excavator with Pabodie's most ingeneous
drilling apparatus. Your craft is fed to an irascible and hungry
UmbralRaptor.
L32[05:35:38] <XXCoder> its on me, because
I thought crafts made from food was good idea.
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L34[06:36:59] <SporkWitch> the trick is
balance. normally the kraken scares the raptor off, you want just
enough sacrifices that he sticks around but doesn't attack;
too many and he takes a nap, and the raptor comes out to play
L35[06:46:11] <Izaya> SporkWitch: you can
use userchrome.css to hide the tab bar
L36[06:46:25] <SporkWitch> Izaya: in
firefox?
L37[06:46:26] <Izaya> alas, there's no
good TST plugin for Firefox now that they killed Firefox
addons
L38[06:46:28] <Izaya> yup
L39[06:47:00] <SporkWitch> also, huh?
TreeStyle Tab is still here and great... they just don't let
it automatically hide the stock tab bar anymore since, i think,
when they switched to "Quantum"
L40[06:47:29] <Izaya> it's lost a
bunch of features I made heavy use of, it has to live in the
bookmark column now
L41[06:47:51] <Izaya> you have to use
userchrome.css to implement show-on-hover now, for example
>.>
L42[06:48:14] <Izaya> #TabsToolbar {
visibility: collapse; }
L43[06:48:24] <SporkWitch> i actually kind
of liked that change putting it in the bookmark tab; what features
were removed? I probably never used any of the fancy.
L44[06:49:14] <Izaya> you used to be able
to have it hidden by default unless you either moved the cursor to
the side of the window or held Ctrl
L45[06:49:27] <Izaya> that needs
userchrome.css abuse now
L46[06:49:33] <SporkWitch> ah, yeah,
i'd never use that lol; i don't like things that cause
resizing
L47[06:49:41] <Izaya> ah, but it
didn't!
L48[06:49:49] <Izaya> it covered the page
without resizing
L49[06:50:20] <SporkWitch> i swear i tried
it once and stopped for exactly that reason. Also same reason I
stopped hiding the taskbar when I grew up and practicality >
eyecandy
L50[06:50:36] <SporkWitch> (the advent of
borderless fullscreen helped, too)
L51[06:50:37] <Izaya> it does now because
the sidebar resizes the viewing area
L52[06:51:45] <Izaya> before they killed
Firefox addons off it was fairly simple for the addon to implement
itself but now it takes ~25 lines in userChrome.css and the addon
itself can't do it
L53[06:51:56] <Izaya> plus I'm pretty
sure you're not meant to use userChrome.css any more
L54[06:52:03] <SporkWitch> probably not,
heh
L55[06:52:13] <Izaya> Why would the user
EVER want to customise their experience? They just want Chrome,
don't they?
L56[06:52:16] <Izaya> >.>
L57[06:52:33] <SporkWitch> still better
than what you have to do with chrome; it literally creates a
separate WINDOW and does a really jacked up window tiling
implementation
L58[06:52:46] <Izaya> But yeah, TST being
worse on portrait displays is why I switched to Waterfox Classic
for years
L59[06:52:59] <SporkWitch> makes
sense
L60[06:53:16] <Izaya> I still miss the real
FF verison of TST, but with enough CSS abuse it's an
acceptable approxamation
L61[06:53:33] <SporkWitch> ... when
you're watching info videos on X4 while flying through
semi-hostile space and the callouts and explosions make you think
you're being shot...
L63[06:54:50] <Izaya> old TST also had an
option to make it semitransparent which was sort of nice,
haven't felt an actual need for it so I haven't looked
into it
L64[06:56:03] <Izaya> Another Firefox addon
I miss is the restart button, though I guess a bookmark attached to
my menu bar works well enough, it's an extra button to press
and I have to close the tab myself afterwards but >.>
L65[06:56:13] <SporkWitch> oh, convenient
timing, i arrived just in time for the Tide hehe (the new areas in
X4's Tides of Avarice DLC are really awesome)
L66[06:56:28] <SporkWitch> not famliiar
with that one
L67[06:57:18] <Izaya> was just a button
that would restart the browser, did it once a day to make sure it
cleaned up
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L72[08:44:22] <Althego> hah, i finally
unraveled the mystery! windows not turning off the monitor was
because of the logitech extreme 3d pro joystick. probably it has
some tiny amount of input even when there is no force on it, and
that is interpreted as user activity, so the monitor is not turned
off, just needed to unplug it
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L74[10:15:04] <Mat2ch> Althego: you could
use a tool to see if it really drifts
L75[10:15:18] <Althego> it always
does
L76[10:16:18] <Mat2ch> Yours or in
general?
L77[10:16:46] <Althego> this one for
sure
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L82[11:37:43] <darsie> 1337
L83[11:37:43] <Althego> leet time
L84[11:37:49] <Althego> hehe
L85[11:38:03] <darsie> :)
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L91[13:56:13] <SporkWitch> Althego:
that's almost any peripheral in windows. It also ignores the
"allow device to wake from sleep" setting. Heck,
I've even seen external HDDs wake it up. Basically, it's
the standard quality and reliability we expect from Microsoft,
which is to say, none. I gave up long ago and just resigned myself
to toggling the monitor to an unused input so it goes to
sleep.
L92[13:58:19] <SporkWitch> as to constant
input, pedals are even worse, since flight pedals output a constant
50% input when neutral/idle. Lots of RPGmaker games that read this
in and make themselves unplayable because the dev didn't hit
the checkbox to make the "toggle gamepad" setting show in
the menu; even more annoying when it's a non-RPGmaker game and
took some real effort to put together and it still has the
same
L93[13:59:16] <SporkWitch> issue. One game
in my library even took it a step further in the screwup: when
exporting/publishing from unity, he left in VR support, but
didn't properly add the launch toggles, so if it detects a VR
HMD it force-loads into VR mode... he hasn't implemented VR
mode, it just renders the game completely unplayable...
L94[14:01:34] <Althego> it can be the
rudder or the throttle then
L95[14:01:48] <Althego> anyway doesnt
matter, now i unplugged it
L96[14:01:54] <Althego> will plug it back
when i need it
L97[14:02:29] <SporkWitch> there's a
commandlet in powershell that'll tell you what triggered the
most recent wake from sleep, though i can't remember off the
top of my head
L98[14:02:49] <Althego> it doesnt wake up.
it never reaches that point
L99[14:02:52] <SporkWitch> (that's how
I knew my external HDD was the cause at one point)
L100[14:03:19] <SporkWitch> oh, you
don't explicitly tell it to sleep when you're done? I
used to, so it would tell me why it was woken up
L101[14:03:34] <Althego> no, no
sleep
L102[14:03:44] <Althego> i trun that off
on everything
L103[14:03:47] <Althego> i dont need
bugs
L104[14:03:54] <Althego> that thing never
works
L105[14:03:59] <Althego> i always see
people struggle with tit
L106[14:04:06] <Althego> either it is on
or off
L107[14:04:25] <Althego> but maybe 2 times
a week i would like the screen to turn off, when i am not there for
a few minutes
L108[14:05:01] <SporkWitch> standard sleep
is generally fine; hibernation is what acts up (or as Windows 8 and
later call it "power off" lol). "standard"
sleep is a suspend-to-RAM; basically just spins down the HDDs and
throttles the CPU extensively, turns off the screens.
L109[14:05:20] <Althego> you can turn that
off after a few cvlicks and then power off is power off
agaiun
L110[14:12:11] <Althego> hirys
L111[14:24:34] <Mat2ch> just get a
USB-Adapter with a switch on it. Or fix the drifting potentiometer
;)
L112[14:25:02] <Althego> as it was
mentioned preciously it may be windwos itself
L113[14:25:14] <Althego> as some of the
inputs are not totally zero even in steady state
L114[14:25:28] <Althego> at least the
rudder is on 50%
L115[14:25:35] <Althego> and that will
never go away
L116[14:28:25] <Mat2ch> it is possible
that the USB device doesn't want to be set into standby
L117[14:28:48] <Mat2ch> and since not all
devices went into standby Windows itself doesn't go
there
L118[14:28:57] <Mat2ch> this would be a
firmware bug of the device then
L119[14:29:10] <Althego> you dont need to
send an input device to standby
L120[14:29:28] <Pinkbeast> I've got a
CH yoke etc which has a horrible but functional interface for
presenting controllers to the OS made out of arbitary combinations
of (and arithmetic on) the real inputs & one thing I can do is
have a profile that makes them all disappear.
L121[14:29:39] <Pinkbeast> Or plug them
all into my monitor and turn that off at the mains :-)
L122[14:29:45] <SporkWitch> Mat2ch:
windows literally has a setting for whether to allow a device to
wake from sleep; it doesn't work, because microsoft
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L124[14:30:19] <Althego> yes but if i turn
off the monitor by hand i already did what i wanted to achieve. so
it is pointless. i want the machine to shut it down
L125[14:30:22] <Mat2ch> Well, then: Use a
switch :D
L126[14:31:14] <Pinkbeast> Sure,
wasn't suggesting the second option to you (or the first,
presuming you don't have CH sticks), just talking about
it
L128[14:32:01] <Mat2ch> Reminds me of old
desk lamps :D
L129[14:32:10] <SporkWitch> Pinkbeast: i
had to do similar to that for SWG heh. It reads in all
"gamepads" simultaneously, but treats them all as one.
had to create a profile in TARGET and map everything there
(TM's TARGET software replaces the discrete devices used in a
profile with a single virtual device -- and the limits for total
buttons / axes that a single DirectInput device has -- thus making
it so when I map one
L130[14:32:34] <SporkWitch> device to
pitch/roll, it doesn't simultaneously read the same axes on
the other devices at the same time as the same input)
L131[14:34:15] <SporkWitch> Mat2ch: the
other issue with that solution is that windows can decide to
"number" the device differently when you unplug/replug or
use a physical switch like that, thus breaking all your mappings
(though luckily some games, like X4, let you renumber the devices,
so you at least don't have to completely remap everything,
just figure out which input number each device is now and reassign
the devices
L132[14:34:18] <SporkWitch> themselves
in-game)
L133[14:34:33] <Althego> meanwhile ubuntu
22.04 was released with a qt6 that just dies when you have more
than 1 keyboard layout
L134[14:35:38] <Mat2ch> I love linux and
udev then. Just write a short script with the usb id and product id
and tell it what to do...
L135[14:35:40] <Mat2ch> always works
L136[14:35:58] <SporkWitch> don't
even get me started on the direction of the *buntus. KDE's
been going downhill for several years as well, between removing the
ability to manually adjust formats (date, time, currency, etc.),
and the intentional crippling of virtual desktops to encourage the
use of the terrible "Activity" feature (same guy that
came up with Activities is in charge of the virual desktop support;
the reason
L137[14:36:47] <Althego> but at least
lennart poettering went from redhat to ms
L138[14:36:55] <SporkWitch> they removed
functionality from virtual desktops was publicly stated to be
literally "people are using virtual desktops how we see
Acitvities being intended," so to encourage you to use the
buggy, poorly-performing, and unnecessary new thing, they removed
functionality from virtual desktops so only Acitivities have it
now)
L139[14:37:13] <Althego> people used
kde?
L140[14:37:20] <Althego> i stopped that
like 8 years ago
L141[14:39:04] <SporkWitch> KDE is still
extremely popular, yes; not everyone likes how restrictive and
difficult to modify gnome is. Even with the bad decisions the last
several years, KDE is still my go-to, I just resign myself to date
formats not being quite how I want them since my choice is either
not-quite-right (EN_GB) or correct-but-wrong-language (DE). They
replaced granular settings with having to pick a locale
L142[14:39:41] <SporkWitch> and it just
using the format from that locale. So if I want proper date
formats, I have to pick German, but because it's set to
German, it also replaces the month and day names with German.
It's the dumbest thing, in the name of "making things
easier"
L143[14:40:10] <Althego> i leave
everything on en us, because that is what works :)
L144[14:40:24] <Althego> obvoisuly
american date format is the dumberst ever invented
L145[14:40:51] <Althego> but it is so rare
that it appears, it doesnt really matter
L146[14:41:20] <SporkWitch> On the upside,
my healthy skepticism of Microsoft has been justified. I'd
been waiting for the other shoe to drop with all the seemingly
FOSS- and Linux-friendly moves Microsoft has been making the last
several years. Now we see where it was leading: purchase of github
-> autopilot to destroy FOSS by stealing code without
attribution, the new terms in the windows store to prohibit
monetization
L147[14:41:23] <SporkWitch> of FOSS
software
L148[14:44:26] <Mat2ch> Well, if you
can't fight it, assimilate it. The Borg are doing this pretty
well.
L149[14:44:50] <SporkWitch> Mat2ch:
literally Microsoft's strategy when it comes to anything they
don't own, for decades: Embrace, Extend, Extinguish
L150[14:48:11] <Althego> yes that is well
known
L151[14:50:25] <Pinkbeast> I was pretty
amused when gameport joysticks went away and someone was rightly
complaining that to play Microsoft Mechwarrior N with their
Microsoft Sidewinder joystick they had to use, er, Linux.
L152[14:50:40] <SporkWitch> lol
L153[14:50:53] <Althego> hehe
L154[14:50:57] <Pinkbeast> American date
formats are nothing on American timezones coupled with their
persistent inability to get them right
L155[14:51:10] <Althego> timezones are
horrible things
L156[14:51:26] <SporkWitch> time zones are
just dumb, but the US's are pretty normal. Now Australian time
zones? Those are FUBAR lol
L157[14:51:37] <SporkWitch> they have some
that are only 35 minute adjustments!
L158[14:52:00] <Althego> not even quarter
hour? that is the stupidest one yet
L159[14:52:04] <raptop> the formats
aren't so much terrible as the high probability of interacting
with someone who doesn't understand DST
L160[14:52:14] <SporkWitch> that too
L161[14:52:23] <Pinkbeast> A stunning
number of Americans think they're in, eg, EST right now.
L162[14:52:28] <SporkWitch> drives me up a
wall when I see notes in tickets saying "EST" when
it's EDT
L163[14:53:15] <SporkWitch> I ALWAYS
include the UTC offset for exactly this reason, even if I got the
time zone name wrong (I don't, but if) I have the offset right
so anyone reading can adjust without needing to look up the time
zone
L164[14:53:46] <SporkWitch> on a related
note, some of our server logs are in EST/EDT (depending on time of
the year), and some are (correctly) in UTC >_<
L165[14:55:10] <raptop> aaaaaaa
L166[14:57:35] <Pinkbeast> And, I mean,
this is a surprising proportion of the ones I interact with in
contexts where they're using timezones with people from all
around the world.
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L169[15:00:13] <SporkWitch> Pinkbeast: in
fairness, the american education system has been systemically
destroyed to create mindless zealots who believe a warped an
ahistorical version of reality, as well as being completely
incapable of critical thought. "Institutional learning
facility" couldn't be more right, they're basically
indoctrination camps. You're certainly not going to learn
anything practical, and it's so
L170[15:01:02] <SporkWitch> severe that
even the universities (which really aren't much better, and
take the ideological indoctrination to a whole new extreme) are
basically high schools now, as they have to offer remedial courses
to even present the appearance of teaching advanced subjects,
because students never learned the stuff in high school
L171[15:01:20] <SporkWitch>
s/systemically/systematically/
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L181[17:38:44] <Neal> I wonder what's
going on with ksp2. I bet they got overambitious and had to scale
back features because of performance constraints.
L182[17:39:06] <Neal> side from the team
change
L183[17:39:18] <Mat2ch> We have no
idea
L184[17:39:25] <Mat2ch> They don't
tell us about their struggles
L185[17:39:42] <Mat2ch> and someone
probably thought they could get out of floating point hell
L186[17:39:48] <Althego> there are
articles about interesting future features
L187[17:40:17] <Mat2ch> !outcome add The
floating point gods throw you in jitter hell.
L188[17:40:17] <LunchBot> Added outcome:
The floating point gods throw you in jitter hell.
L189[17:40:27] <SporkWitch> hehe
L190[17:40:29] <Althego> it is better to
delay than to do an other unfinished release
L191[17:40:44] <SporkWitch> ^
L192[17:41:38] <SporkWitch> why i usually
try not to follow pre-release stuff too much, that's how
people get angry and disappointed. I have no major issues with
Cyberpunk for this reason: i actively DIDN"T pay attention to
its development, "pre-ordered" 6 hours before the
release, and got the game, the pre-order bonuses, and a few hundred
hours of great fun
L193[17:41:41] <Althego> so many
unfinished games today, because of the interent. thy knw they can
patch later
L194[17:42:00] <SporkWitch> the google
model of game development: everything is permanent beta
L195[17:42:23] <Pinkbeast> As opposed to
the 80s when games were unfinished because...
L196[17:43:32] <SporkWitch> stuff might
get cut, but what you got was a finished, functional product (and
if it wasn't, they were rightly torn apart, since there was no
good way to fix it). There's no denying that ubiquitous fast
internet access has resulted in a massive and rapid decline in QA
standards for a release for the simple fact that they can ship it
on time and continue bugfixing knowing they'll have a 20GB
patch
L197[17:43:33] <SporkWitch> on launch
day
L198[17:44:37] <Althego> about let's
not talk about the forced online games, which fail because the
servers cant take the load. a useless load because there shouldnt
be mandatory online single player at all
L200[17:46:33] <Neal> it's subscribed
but there's no button to open it
L201[17:57:29] <Rokker> Pinkbeast:
oi
L202[17:57:41] <Rokker> bike
L203[17:58:03] <Rokker> hold on. slow
upload
L205[17:59:06] <SporkWitch> Althego:
remember when blizzard said "just play something else"
when asked about the always-online requirement of Diablo 3 in the
context of a plane flight? lol
L206[17:59:18] <SporkWitch> actiblizzion
REALLY hates their customers, and they keep showing it more and
more lol
L207[18:10:09] <Althego> also: you have
phones
L208[18:33:30] <NGC3982> this is what
happens when your game company goes full on EA
L209[18:34:22] <Althego> but it seems even
though everybody is hating on diablo immortal, it generates 1
million usd per day income
L210[18:35:13] <NGC3982> sadly, anti
consumer products still make money
L211[19:03:34] <Pinkbeast> Oooh. In KSP I
am circumnavigating Eve. I'm taking a polar route since that
way I can stay on land. I landed on the equator and headed... well,
I'm on an expodition to the North Pole.
L212[19:03:57] <Pinkbeast> Presence of
tigers, bears of very little brain, piglets etc as yet
unconfirmed.
L213[20:01:12] <SporkWitch> Halo is
praised and very popular; doesn't change that it's a
mediocre generic scifi FPS that's a hollow shell of what
Bungie demoed at MacWorld prior to being purchased by Microsoft
(not to mention its popularity being responsible for the worst
mechanics to become ubiquitous in FPS games, most especially
regenerating health).
L214[20:02:09] <SporkWitch> See also: WoW,
another mediocre game that did nothing original (though it did
combine things other games did better, all in one place), and whose
popularity in spite of that resulted in the entire genre ruining
itself to copy it. Gone was depth, in was instant gratification and
mindless repeition of a rotation you could just automate
L215[20:04:31] <sandbox> never played
either
L216[20:10:04] <sandbox> I played Warcraft
1, 2, and 3, and Diablo 1 and 2
L217[20:10:37] <sandbox> after that, I was
done
L218[20:11:43] <Althego> you know what, i
never liked anything what blizzard made, except blackthorne
L219[20:12:12] <Althego> but that is so
old people wouldnt even know the name
L220[20:12:52] <sandbox> my neighbour had
Rock n' Roll Racing
L221[20:14:46] <sandbox> that was from
before Silicon & Synapse changed their name to Blizzard
L222[20:16:16] <Althego> console stuff, no
wonder i have never heard of it
L223[20:21:47] <sandbox> it's a shame
they stopped making games after those ;p
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