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L4[00:21:12] <SporkWitch> ... i'm literally
accelerating uphill on minmus with the brakes on lol
L5[00:28:34] <flayer> yeah that happens to
me too
L6[00:31:45] <raptop> whee
L7[00:32:56] <SporkWitch> ooofff, the small
drill and isru are so slow lol
L8[00:36:01] <SporkWitch> and i misread
specs; massively underdid the cooling >_< lol
L9[00:40:47] <raptop> oosp
L10[00:41:26] <packbart> the small ISRU
also wastes a lot more ore than the bigger one, iirc
L11[00:41:57] <SporkWitch> probably, but i
just haven't managed to come up with a viable mk3 plane
L12[00:43:26] <SporkWitch> what I may end
up doing is instead of creating a proper plane, launch something
with a rocket, and have it just have a refueling lander. Feel like
that's probably really inefficient too, though, since it'd have to
make multiple trips, most likely
L13[00:44:15] <SporkWitch> That's why I'm
super excited for the potential of improved off-world construction
in KSP2. As implemented in KSP1, off-world manufacturing is just so
clunky because of the EVA construction limitations and flimsy
docking collars.
L14[00:45:48] <SporkWitch> reloaded from
before i deorbited at minmus; 840m/s should be plenty to get me
home and slow me down for safe reentry
L15[01:16:26] <SporkWitch> SUPER-aggressive
aerobrake (50km first pass back from minmus): NOTHING EXPLODED!
lol
L16[01:16:52] <SporkWitch> as good as this
thing's performing, i really hope adding another couple batteries
and the right heat sinks doesn't kill the deltaV... lol
L17[01:38:09] <SporkWitch> lol, forgot to
switch to surface mode; was wondering why it was so hard to
control: prograde indicator was 90 degrees off of what it really
was lol
L18[01:51:36] <SporkWitch> so i DIDN"T
screw up my maths, the problem is that the 125 has max cooling less
than required cooling, so it has to be watched...
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L28[04:19:10] <SporkWitch> so serious
question: how is the max cooling on the small ISRU not a bug? The
thing works so bloody slow you HAVE to use time acceleration, but
if you do, it'll explode since it literally cannot be cooled faster
than it heats up, and that on top of the fact it's less efficient
with materials and power... unless i'm missing something, it's
functionally unusable even with reasonable levels of
L29[04:19:12] <SporkWitch>
patience...
L30[04:19:31] *
raptop doesn't know
L31[04:22:07] <SporkWitch> that said, i
THINK i've solved my thrust problem for a mk3 spaceplane to fit the
large (huzzah 8x1 engine plates). Will have to figure out lift and
control authority tomorrow, but at least on the runway, it feels
like the right amount of thrust and fuel consumption to be in line
with the mk2 from earlier. Strongly suspect i'll need further
redesign after, though, because i doubt two nervs are
L32[04:22:26] <SporkWitch> sufficient for a
reasonable burn duration even to minmus heh
L33[04:24:05] <packbart> do you have the
TCS panels on it or only the radiator panels?
L34[04:24:22] <packbart> The wiki sez:
"Especially note that it requires 100kW of cooling per recipe
to maintain its operating temperature, but the unit is strictly
limited to 50kW of passive cooling, maximum. This means the unit
will always overheat unless an active TCS is used to remove
additional heat. The intended use is to pulse the conversion
operations, rather than leave it running for extended
periods."
L36[04:24:52] *
packbart rarely used the small ISRU thingy
L37[04:27:24] <packbart> because of
"This converter discards 90% of the ore it processes; only
converting 10% of the ore into fuel."
L38[04:27:52] <SporkWitch> packbart: the
mk2 has a small ISRU and small drill, total required cooling is
150, the ship had a medium TCS (250 core heat xfer). Problem is
that the small ISRU has a 75 MAX cooling, while the other ISRU and
both drills have equal max and required. Wiki claims it should
reach an equilibrium that's just outside optimum, but mine
exploded.
L39[04:28:12] <SporkWitch> unless i clicked
the wrong process, but i'm 99% sure i clicked
"monopropellant" not one of the combo modes
L41[04:28:36] <packbart> hmmyeah, the
active cooling should take off the excess heat conducting to other
parts and prevent it from overheating too much
L42[04:29:22] <SporkWitch> TCS should take
heat from the hottest part first, right? could it be that it was
too far away from the ISRU on the hull?
L43[04:29:44] <SporkWitch> the drill was
100% stable at 1k kelvin
L44[04:30:00] <SporkWitch> (or was it 500?
whatever it's optimum was)
L45[04:30:15] <packbart> I'm not quite sure
about how the TCS works but as long as it didn't reach its max
temp, it should cool all parts that to 1/4 their max temp,
iirc
L46[04:30:44] <packbart> enable the thermal
debug PAW info and you can watch it work
L47[04:31:51] <packbart> the panels only
cool up to direct children of their parent part
L48[04:32:15] <packbart> (I usually put a
4k battery on top of the large ISRU and stick two or three radiator
panels on that)
L49[04:33:39] <SporkWitch> "the panels
only cool up to direct children of their parent part" Sounds
like that was the cause. It might have been just close enough to
the drill, but NOT the ISRU, as I had it further back on the
hull
L50[04:34:16] <SporkWitch> (the TCS, that
is; ISRU I put in front because i needed the centre of gravity to
stay further forward; that was the issue earlier, i kept nosing up
and couldn't get it down lol)
L51[04:34:18] <packbart> yeah, that's the
difference between radiator panels and the TCS thingies (those cool
all parts)
L52[04:34:21] <packbart> hm
L53[04:34:37] <SporkWitch> (that is, weight
shift was the problem, i had put the ISRU in front to begin
with)
L54[04:35:21] <packbart> now I'm confused
:) with TCS (the unfolding parts) it should work. only the radiator
panels have limited reach
L55[04:35:43] <packbart> but anyway, the
small ISRU is special and not reall suited for prolonged use
L56[04:35:51] <SporkWitch> pretty sure TCS
also say they only cool 4 things, the wording just didn't make
clear if distance from the hot part mattered...
L57[04:36:25] <packbart> hm. I don't
remember that limitation
L58[04:36:25] <SporkWitch> well, see my
comment above: it's not suited to ANY use. It's too slow to use
without time accleration, and the heating behaviour means you can't
use it with time acceleration lol
L59[04:36:45] <SporkWitch> gimme a few,
botting the game up again to take a look
L61[04:37:30] <SporkWitch> might just cheat
myself over to minmus for a quick test, as it's late; it's entirely
possible it was a bug, just like my accelerating uncontrollably
uphill despite engines being off and no RCS fuel, brakes on
lol
L62[04:37:36] <SporkWitch> (gotta love
minmus physics lol)
L63[04:45:38] <packbart> Input: Ore 2.5/s,
Output: Monopropellant 0.5/s - yeah, monoprop production on the
small ISRU is even more inefficient than LF/Ox
L64[04:46:40] <Izaya> isroo
L65[04:48:41] <packbart> Kanga Resource
Utilization?
L67[04:51:24] <SporkWitch> filled up the
ore, then turned ISRU on, and this time it didn't overheat... i'm
at a loss here
L68[04:51:30] <SporkWitch> must have been a
bug
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L70[04:56:06] <SporkWitch> yeah, just did a
bunch of fiddling, couldn't reproduce the explosion. no idea
>_< upside: means that design is viable, just need to add
more batteries so it doesn't run out of power overnight (since that
turns off the drill so i can't just leave it in acceleration until
it's refueled)
L71[04:56:43] <packbart> I recommend
enabling the thermal part info. it gives some more insight into
where the heat goes
L72[04:57:17] <packbart> if you leave it
unobserved, magic happens. the converters and drill don't use power
and won't overheat ;)
L73[04:57:36] <SporkWitch> oh there was no
question about where it went, the ISRU exploded lol. That's when i
reloaded before my deorbit burn and I made that crazy 50km initial
aerobrake on the return haha
L74[04:57:59] <SporkWitch> also no way to
know it's done refueling :P
L75[04:58:32] <SporkWitch> asteroids are
limited resources, right? they're eventually exhausted and you have
to find a new one?
L76[04:59:03] <packbart> yes. but on the
other hand, they contain close to 100% ore
L77[04:59:13] <Izaya> packbart: Kangaroo
Space Program
L78[04:59:56] <packbart> so one drill
delivers much more ore per time to the converter(s)
L79[05:00:19] <SporkWitch> that's why i was
wondering; curious how worthwhile it would be to bring some rocks
home heh
L81[05:03:36] <packbart> *cute
L82[05:04:08] <SporkWitch> hehe
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L86[06:28:22] <SporkWitch> i am doing Kod's
work: convincing new people to play KSP lol
L87[06:37:53] <Althego> and that is the
problem with humans, why do they need convincing for this?
L88[06:47:26] <SporkWitch> in fairness, the
couple potential converts tonight had never even heard of it
before
L89[06:48:36] <SporkWitch> apparently
taking a month or two off did wonders for me. I managed an extra
1km/s dV left once into LKO on my new spaceplane design, compared
to barely managing 400m/s with my previous model i spent a week
on
L90[06:49:54] <SporkWitch> also have a
potential mk3-size of similar dV efficiency, just eyeballing based
on burn times and TWR on the ground; haven't done any work on the
lift or control authority yet
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L98[08:37:34] <Mat2ch> an SSTO with only 4
parts...
L99[08:38:28] <RoboFreak> yes, quite an old
design at this point
L100[08:39:15] *
darsie guesses Dart, FL800, fairing, some computer.
L101[08:39:33] <RoboFreak> intake,
cockpit, tank, engine
L102[08:40:09] <darsie> k
L103[08:40:16] <darsie> Hybrid
engine?
L104[08:40:44] <RoboFreak> rapier
L105[08:40:57] <darsie> Is that the hybrid
one?
L106[08:41:03] <RoboFreak>
jet/rocket
L107[08:41:08] <darsie> mhm
L108[08:45:19] <bees> Mat2ch: cant you use
liquid booster part + random probe core on top?
L109[08:45:24] <bees> that would be 2
parts
L110[08:45:37] <RoboFreak> you can
L111[08:46:45] *
darsie is ascending to orbit with Dart, FL-T800,
cockpit.
L112[08:48:33] <darsie> failed, gotta fly
better.
L113[08:48:43] <darsie> 862 m Pe
L114[08:52:41] <darsie> bees: Liquid
booster with fuel and engine? Twin Boar?
L116[08:55:39] <bees> yeah, that
L117[08:58:00] <darsie> bees: That would
be high drag.
L118[08:58:24] <darsie> Might work,
though.
L119[08:58:31] <darsie> If you go slow
first.
L120[09:00:48] ***
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L121[09:01:01]
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L123[09:05:12] <darsie> I'm surprised the
twin boar doesn't make electricity.
L124[09:06:43] <Mat2ch> but it was about
getting there on jet engines
L125[09:07:06] <Mat2ch> yes, I tried the
twin boar version as well. :D
L126[09:07:43] <Mat2ch> iirc twin boar
plus crew cabin works as well
L127[09:08:21] <flayer> ugh
L128[09:10:45] <bees> darsie: try with
probe core - booster - nose cone
L129[09:10:57] <bees> idk if you can slap
core at the bottom, though
L130[09:11:11] <bees> just curious how
much did drag cost
L132[09:26:54] <flayer> nice
L133[09:27:05] <flayer> very elegant
design
L134[09:27:06] <darsie> Mat2ch: Crew cabin
has no controls.
L135[09:27:08] <darsie> :)
L136[09:27:50] <darsie> Oops, there's a
Jeb in it. That's threep parts.
L137[09:28:35] <darsie> Doesn't work
without pilot.
L138[09:29:44] <darsie> Could we make a
Kerbal powered pedal generator?
L139[09:29:51] <Althego> lol
L140[09:29:59] <darsie> :)
L141[09:30:04] <Althego> but the question
remains, what powers the kerbal in the base game?
L142[09:30:13] <darsie> Sunlight?
L143[09:30:20] <Althego> it is
green...
L144[09:30:34] <Althego> but this is
contrary to the fungus hypothesis i favor
L145[09:30:44] <Althego> maybe kerbals are
lichen?
L146[09:31:50] <darsie> Put it in the
inventory.
L147[09:32:40] <darsie> And a smaller hand
crank version.
L148[09:38:25] <Izaya> can confirm,
kerbals break rocks
L149[09:39:10] <Althego> rock paper
scissors lizard jeb?
L150[09:44:05] <bees> Althego: You try to
publish a paper about how pigs are actually plants. You discover
how Kerbals reproduce and swear not to tell.
L151[09:44:17] <Althego> hehe
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L154[09:50:39] <darsie> Pigs use spirals
for reproduction.
L155[09:51:49] <Althego> and ducks
L156[09:54:44] <Mat2ch> I thought Kerbals
run on snacks..
L157[09:55:27] <Althego> only with
mods
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L166[14:46:11] <darsie> .
L167[14:47:23] <Althego> isag time?
L168[14:48:06] <darsie> isag?
L169[14:48:19] <Althego> 1546
L170[14:48:20] <darsie> ah :)
L171[14:48:53] <darsie> it is
L172[14:51:19] <darsie> Kerbals are
spawned in space.
L173[14:52:05] <darsie> I've hired them,
too, when I wasn't in the mood of rescuing them till I found a
suitable one.
L174[14:52:43] <darsie> ;mission
L175[14:52:43] <LunchBot> darsie: You
obtain +o. Physics fails you, and you fall through the floor.
L176[14:53:15] <darsie> ;mission add You
rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without landing on the
Mun.
L177[14:53:15] <LunchBot> darsie: Added
mission: You rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without
landing on the Mun.
L178[14:53:56] <darsie> The perks of
+o.
L179[14:54:14] <darsie> in the
Matrix
L180[14:55:48] <darsie> We could make a
wiki page with a list of records like cheapest rocket to
orbit.
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L183[15:01:37] <Althego> i missed leet and
kikkerikii
L184[15:01:51] <darsie> What did you do
instead?
L185[15:02:06] <SporkWitch> sooooo...
someone literally wrote an "adult" book about Systemd...
lol
L186[15:02:46] <darsie> The adjective
'literally' seems very appropriate for books.
L187[15:02:54] <Althego> hehe
L188[15:04:21] <Althego> then that means,
we are missing childern's book about systemd
L189[15:04:44] <darsie> I think systemd is
not for kids.
L190[15:04:45] <Althego> how would you
illustrate unit files with colorful pictures?
L191[15:04:47] <SporkWitch> hmm, does the
autobot nuke spam? trying to post the book description but it's 16
lines lol
L192[15:05:46] <darsie> It's ok for kids
to use systemd without being aware of it, but it's probably too
much for them to dig too deep into it.
L193[15:06:39] <SporkWitch> "Not your
normal Friday night in the computer room. Not a normal night
anywhere. Terry is the archetypal old-school Unix admin, nurturing
servers with care and precision while avoiding the latest trendy
garbage. KDE and Gnome on a server? Nope, if you need a GUI use
FVWM. The latest trend Terry refuses? One adopted almost
everywhere? Systemd, the replacement init. So Systemd comes for
Terry. Wearing skin-tight leather pant
L194[15:06:40] <SporkWitch> s. No, not a
normal night in the computer room at all… (Declared
"inappropriate for all audiences" by Amazon
Advertising!)"
L195[15:07:43] <Althego> yes i declare it
inappropate for everybody too
L196[15:09:35] <darsie> Is Tristen still a
kid?
L197[15:14:44] <Althego> probably, without
time travel
L198[15:17:04] <Mat2ch> SporkWitch: I, uh,
what. Oh, Rule 34, I forgot. :D
L199[15:17:42] <Mat2ch> And if you install
X on a server you should be haunted by the 9-tailed cat.
L201[15:21:48] <Mat2ch> I'm not sure if
that is appropriate here... *chuckles*
L202[15:23:16] <darsie> :)
L203[15:23:21] <UmbralRaptor> Right, we'll
have to haunt you with a 9-tailed fox instead
L204[15:24:04] <Mat2ch> I promise, I never
installed X on a server!
L205[15:24:26] <SporkWitch> it's a
cat5-of-nine-tails! lol
L206[15:25:08] <Mat2ch> That's too cheap
for me. I need a cat7-of-nine-tails!
L207[15:25:42] <SporkWitch> cat7 is the
displayport of ethernet cables, totally overpriced and
unnecessary
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L211[17:57:29] <packbart> hm, yeah. not
much use between cat5e and cat8
L212[17:59:25] <packbart> although 10Gbit
is now cheap enough for home use
L213[17:59:39] <Althego> is that
copper?
L214[18:00:06] <packbart> yes
L215[18:00:34] <Althego> now with ssds 1
gigabit is not fast anymore
L216[18:21:45] <SporkWitch> anyone use
kurs? If so, how do i actually SHOW the camera? lol
L217[18:23:05] *
flayer tackles SporkWitch
L218[18:23:43] <Althego> tackling better
than tickling
L219[18:26:44] <flayer> i'm having some
serious potato farts
L220[18:26:54] <flayer> it propels me
forward
L221[18:27:15] <Althego> probably that is
how space whales move
L222[18:27:25] <flayer> lol
L223[18:27:33] <SporkWitch> lol rockomax
hub max connector: clearly has hatches on all connections, says
"docking ports not included" >_< lol
L224[18:28:45] <packbart> well, they're
bulkheads with hatches, not docking ports
L225[18:29:00] <SporkWitch> the whole
thing could be an airlock! lol
L226[18:29:30] <packbart> but that would
look odd if you connect crew compartments or similar to it
L227[18:34:06] <packbart> SSPX has useful
1.25m airlocks
L228[18:45:36] <Mat2ch> well, you can get
10 GBit from Cat6 A cables
L229[18:47:14] <Mat2ch> and if you need
more, you might want to look at fiber
L230[18:47:42] <Althego> tha always looks
overkill and complicated
L231[18:47:48] <Althego> not exactly
consumer tech
L232[18:50:20] <Mat2ch> If you need more
than 10 GBit at home, you are not a regular consumer anymore.
:D
L233[18:52:36] <Althego> i just think 10
would be nice. maybe i would consider a nas too
L234[18:53:05] <Althego> modern wifi is
faster than 1 gb ethernet
L235[18:53:08] <Althego> kind of
silly
L236[18:53:14] <SporkWitch> anyone use
kurs docking cam or know one that works on linux? It seems to be
current version, but the camera never actually appears
>_<
L237[18:53:55] <Althego> maybe rogozin of
roscosmos can tell you about that :)
L238[18:54:20] <SporkWitch> i don't
actually struggle to dock, it'd just be really nice lol
L239[18:55:54] <packbart> it's a
linuxgurugamer mod. he plays KSP on Windows but might know more
about it
L240[18:56:09] <SporkWitch> that's rather
ironic lol
L241[18:56:12] <Mat2ch> Althego: the tell
you it is faster, but did you really measure it?
L242[18:56:46] <Althego> inside a room it
would be probably
L243[18:57:23] <Althego> but doesnt really
matter, this router is already several years old, and i still dont
have any fast wifi device
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L245[19:04:13] <SporkWitch> love my
AC3100, but I'll probably make the move to ubituiti if/when I need
to replace it or expand my network
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L251[20:42:41] <SporkWitch> i think it
might actually have been a mod that was causing the oddities with
temperature last night. I removed restock (didn't even mean to have
it, another mod grabbed it), and now my small drill and miner are
sitting stable at perfect temp
L252[20:42:51] <SporkWitch> with single
medium TCS, as the maths suggest
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L255[21:23:01] <packbart> hmyeah, that
Extra Docking Ports mod doesn't work without Restock, causing MM
errors. Maybe I can figure out what's wrong and put in a bug
report/patch
L256[21:23:28] <packbart> I don't like
Restock much, tbh. ymmv
L257[21:24:52] <SporkWitch> definitely
removed it once i noticed it lol. now all the craft i've tweaked
are yelling at me when i load them lol
L258[21:25:43] <packbart> and some of them
might look odd because the part models have different
geometries
L259[21:26:19] <SporkWitch> yeah
L260[21:26:37] <SporkWitch> don't think i
ran into that with any of what i was using, but performance was
definitely slightly different
L261[21:27:28] ⇦
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L262[21:27:30] <SporkWitch> i think i've
resigned myself to giving up on my self-refueling SSTO spaceplane,
though. Just need to strap way too many batteries on it to last
through the minmus night and thus not have to manually manage
toggling things
L263[21:27:43] <SporkWitch> i ran the
maths and i COULD do 45 RTGs lol
L264[21:28:13] <packbart> fuel cells not
an option?
L265[21:28:34] <SporkWitch> with the
absurdly low production rate as it is?
L266[21:28:57] <packbart> ah. right. they
work well with the large converter
L267[21:29:12] <SporkWitch> yeah, the
large has net gain
L268[21:31:31] <SporkWitch> would take
four fuel cell arrays to run the liquid+ox mode (since it's per
product costs), which would consume ~130% of the produced fuel and
oxidizer lol
L269[21:31:51] <SporkWitch> since the
drill can't keep up, so single-mode is only generating about 0.1
unit per second
L270[21:32:35] <SporkWitch> just have to
make sure it can keep going through the night or the ISRU overheats
and the drill shuts down (the drill stops and has to be restarted
after stopping time warp, the ISRU keeps going even with no power
and just keeps building heat)
L271[21:33:05] <SporkWitch> just no viable
way to do it that i can see, unless I solve the problems with a mk3
size, or totally redesign around an exposed large ISRU and
trill
L272[21:33:08] <SporkWitch> *drill
L273[21:33:32] <SporkWitch> more likely,
i'm thinking i'll construct a refinery to send to minmus and design
a simple drone fuel carrier
L274[21:34:26] <SporkWitch> i do wish the
EVA building were more robust, though. It's just so limiting only
really being able to bolt things on, not properly assemble larger
structures, so you have to land them intact or give them wheels and
dock them
L275[21:41:07] <SporkWitch> did the maths
and the 45 RTGs would only way less than 4t, but obviously take up
a lot of space lol
L276[21:41:22] <packbart> and cost a lot
of credits
L277[21:41:58] <SporkWitch> yeah, but
that's the point of an infinitely reusable craft :P
L278[21:42:09] <SporkWitch> also just
noticed RTGs require cooling, too... lol
L279[21:43:00] <packbart> yeah, but
usually the craft's thermal mass and radiation can deal with
that
L280[21:43:28] <SporkWitch> on 45 of them?
lol
L281[22:30:05] <bees> SporkWitch: set time
warp to 10000+
L282[22:30:12] <bees> magically all drills
start working
L283[22:31:03] <SporkWitch> basically just
gave up on it. Now I'm working on a drone lander with drills and
refinery lol
L284[22:41:50] <bees> game stops
simulating _something_ at high time warps, presumably heat
system
L285[22:42:13] <bees> so as long as you
can survive one tick of warp, it works forever
L286[22:42:29] <SporkWitch> bit TOO cheaty
at that point lol
L287[22:43:29] <SporkWitch> struggling to
get started on designing thls mobile refinery. any suggestions on
ideal number of drills and ISRUs? Presumably only need one
container since the ISRU's should be draining it pretty fast
L288[22:43:56] <SporkWitch> it'll mainly
be for minmus and other light moons, so can have stupid payload
capacity
L289[22:48:01] <bees> if you _can_ achieve
the same result manually with constant start/stop cycles, not
_that_ cheaty
L290[22:48:14] <bees> just wait 2-3x time
that it would take you normally, i guess?
L291[22:50:50] *
flayer prods bees
L292[23:05:42] ⇦
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L295[23:18:17] <XXCoder> ;mission
L296[23:18:17] <LunchBot> XXCoder: You
design a rocket fueled by mashed bananas and matchsticks. You exit
the realm of possiblity.
L297[23:28:13] ⇦
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Leaving)
L298[23:36:25] <packbart> radioactive
fuel
L299[23:48:33] <bees> XXCoder: You design
a series of planetary probes around the paradigm of exchanging
reaction mass for ablative lithobraking equipment. The petunias
think to themselves "Not again."
L300[23:49:00] <XXCoder> indeed lol