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L4[00:21:12] <SporkWitch> ... i'm literally accelerating uphill on minmus with the brakes on lol
L5[00:28:34] <flayer> yeah that happens to me too
L6[00:31:45] <raptop> whee
L7[00:32:56] <SporkWitch> ooofff, the small drill and isru are so slow lol
L8[00:36:01] <SporkWitch> and i misread specs; massively underdid the cooling >_< lol
L9[00:40:47] <raptop> oosp
L10[00:41:26] <packbart> the small ISRU also wastes a lot more ore than the bigger one, iirc
L11[00:41:57] <SporkWitch> probably, but i just haven't managed to come up with a viable mk3 plane
L12[00:43:26] <SporkWitch> what I may end up doing is instead of creating a proper plane, launch something with a rocket, and have it just have a refueling lander. Feel like that's probably really inefficient too, though, since it'd have to make multiple trips, most likely
L13[00:44:15] <SporkWitch> That's why I'm super excited for the potential of improved off-world construction in KSP2. As implemented in KSP1, off-world manufacturing is just so clunky because of the EVA construction limitations and flimsy docking collars.
L14[00:45:48] <SporkWitch> reloaded from before i deorbited at minmus; 840m/s should be plenty to get me home and slow me down for safe reentry
L15[01:16:26] <SporkWitch> SUPER-aggressive aerobrake (50km first pass back from minmus): NOTHING EXPLODED! lol
L16[01:16:52] <SporkWitch> as good as this thing's performing, i really hope adding another couple batteries and the right heat sinks doesn't kill the deltaV... lol
L17[01:38:09] <SporkWitch> lol, forgot to switch to surface mode; was wondering why it was so hard to control: prograde indicator was 90 degrees off of what it really was lol
L18[01:51:36] <SporkWitch> so i DIDN"T screw up my maths, the problem is that the 125 has max cooling less than required cooling, so it has to be watched...
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L28[04:19:10] <SporkWitch> so serious question: how is the max cooling on the small ISRU not a bug? The thing works so bloody slow you HAVE to use time acceleration, but if you do, it'll explode since it literally cannot be cooled faster than it heats up, and that on top of the fact it's less efficient with materials and power... unless i'm missing something, it's functionally unusable even with reasonable levels of
L29[04:19:12] <SporkWitch> patience...
L30[04:19:31] * raptop doesn't know
L31[04:22:07] <SporkWitch> that said, i THINK i've solved my thrust problem for a mk3 spaceplane to fit the large (huzzah 8x1 engine plates). Will have to figure out lift and control authority tomorrow, but at least on the runway, it feels like the right amount of thrust and fuel consumption to be in line with the mk2 from earlier. Strongly suspect i'll need further redesign after, though, because i doubt two nervs are
L32[04:22:26] <SporkWitch> sufficient for a reasonable burn duration even to minmus heh
L33[04:24:05] <packbart> do you have the TCS panels on it or only the radiator panels?
L34[04:24:22] <packbart> The wiki sez: "Especially note that it requires 100kW of cooling per recipe to maintain its operating temperature, but the unit is strictly limited to 50kW of passive cooling, maximum. This means the unit will always overheat unless an active TCS is used to remove additional heat. The intended use is to pulse the conversion operations, rather than leave it running for extended periods."
L35[04:24:28] <packbart> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Convert-O-Tron_125
L36[04:24:52] * packbart rarely used the small ISRU thingy
L37[04:27:24] <packbart> because of "This converter discards 90% of the ore it processes; only converting 10% of the ore into fuel."
L38[04:27:52] <SporkWitch> packbart: the mk2 has a small ISRU and small drill, total required cooling is 150, the ship had a medium TCS (250 core heat xfer). Problem is that the small ISRU has a 75 MAX cooling, while the other ISRU and both drills have equal max and required. Wiki claims it should reach an equilibrium that's just outside optimum, but mine exploded.
L39[04:28:12] <SporkWitch> unless i clicked the wrong process, but i'm 99% sure i clicked "monopropellant" not one of the combo modes
L40[04:28:33] <SporkWitch> https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Radiator
L41[04:28:36] <packbart> hmmyeah, the active cooling should take off the excess heat conducting to other parts and prevent it from overheating too much
L42[04:29:22] <SporkWitch> TCS should take heat from the hottest part first, right? could it be that it was too far away from the ISRU on the hull?
L43[04:29:44] <SporkWitch> the drill was 100% stable at 1k kelvin
L44[04:30:00] <SporkWitch> (or was it 500? whatever it's optimum was)
L45[04:30:15] <packbart> I'm not quite sure about how the TCS works but as long as it didn't reach its max temp, it should cool all parts that to 1/4 their max temp, iirc
L46[04:30:44] <packbart> enable the thermal debug PAW info and you can watch it work
L47[04:31:51] <packbart> the panels only cool up to direct children of their parent part
L48[04:32:15] <packbart> (I usually put a 4k battery on top of the large ISRU and stick two or three radiator panels on that)
L49[04:33:39] <SporkWitch> "the panels only cool up to direct children of their parent part" Sounds like that was the cause. It might have been just close enough to the drill, but NOT the ISRU, as I had it further back on the hull
L50[04:34:16] <SporkWitch> (the TCS, that is; ISRU I put in front because i needed the centre of gravity to stay further forward; that was the issue earlier, i kept nosing up and couldn't get it down lol)
L51[04:34:18] <packbart> yeah, that's the difference between radiator panels and the TCS thingies (those cool all parts)
L52[04:34:21] <packbart> hm
L53[04:34:37] <SporkWitch> (that is, weight shift was the problem, i had put the ISRU in front to begin with)
L54[04:35:21] <packbart> now I'm confused :) with TCS (the unfolding parts) it should work. only the radiator panels have limited reach
L55[04:35:43] <packbart> but anyway, the small ISRU is special and not reall suited for prolonged use
L56[04:35:51] <SporkWitch> pretty sure TCS also say they only cool 4 things, the wording just didn't make clear if distance from the hot part mattered...
L57[04:36:25] <packbart> hm. I don't remember that limitation
L58[04:36:25] <SporkWitch> well, see my comment above: it's not suited to ANY use. It's too slow to use without time accleration, and the heating behaviour means you can't use it with time acceleration lol
L59[04:36:45] <SporkWitch> gimme a few, botting the game up again to take a look
L60[04:37:02] <packbart> The roid eater did use TCS only: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/ksprr2.jpg
L61[04:37:30] <SporkWitch> might just cheat myself over to minmus for a quick test, as it's late; it's entirely possible it was a bug, just like my accelerating uncontrollably uphill despite engines being off and no RCS fuel, brakes on lol
L62[04:37:36] <SporkWitch> (gotta love minmus physics lol)
L63[04:45:38] <packbart> Input: Ore 2.5/s, Output: Monopropellant 0.5/s - yeah, monoprop production on the small ISRU is even more inefficient than LF/Ox
L64[04:46:40] <Izaya> isroo
L65[04:48:41] <packbart> Kanga Resource Utilization?
L66[04:49:13] <SporkWitch> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/812736295814168623/931771767356268615/unknown.png temp on the ISRU continues to climb; that's a medium TCS
L67[04:51:24] <SporkWitch> filled up the ore, then turned ISRU on, and this time it didn't overheat... i'm at a loss here
L68[04:51:30] <SporkWitch> must have been a bug
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L70[04:56:06] <SporkWitch> yeah, just did a bunch of fiddling, couldn't reproduce the explosion. no idea >_< upside: means that design is viable, just need to add more batteries so it doesn't run out of power overnight (since that turns off the drill so i can't just leave it in acceleration until it's refueled)
L71[04:56:43] <packbart> I recommend enabling the thermal part info. it gives some more insight into where the heat goes
L72[04:57:17] <packbart> if you leave it unobserved, magic happens. the converters and drill don't use power and won't overheat ;)
L73[04:57:36] <SporkWitch> oh there was no question about where it went, the ISRU exploded lol. That's when i reloaded before my deorbit burn and I made that crazy 50km initial aerobrake on the return haha
L74[04:57:59] <SporkWitch> also no way to know it's done refueling :P
L75[04:58:32] <SporkWitch> asteroids are limited resources, right? they're eventually exhausted and you have to find a new one?
L76[04:59:03] <packbart> yes. but on the other hand, they contain close to 100% ore
L77[04:59:13] <Izaya> packbart: Kangaroo Space Program
L78[04:59:56] <packbart> so one drill delivers much more ore per time to the converter(s)
L79[05:00:19] <SporkWitch> that's why i was wondering; curious how worthwhile it would be to bring some rocks home heh
L80[05:03:20] <packbart> and after they're mined out, you can form them into cut "little" stone creatures ;) https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/royd3.jpg
L81[05:03:36] <packbart> *cute
L82[05:04:08] <SporkWitch> hehe
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L86[06:28:22] <SporkWitch> i am doing Kod's work: convincing new people to play KSP lol
L87[06:37:53] <Althego> and that is the problem with humans, why do they need convincing for this?
L88[06:47:26] <SporkWitch> in fairness, the couple potential converts tonight had never even heard of it before
L89[06:48:36] <SporkWitch> apparently taking a month or two off did wonders for me. I managed an extra 1km/s dV left once into LKO on my new spaceplane design, compared to barely managing 400m/s with my previous model i spent a week on
L90[06:49:54] <SporkWitch> also have a potential mk3-size of similar dV efficiency, just eyeballing based on burn times and TWR on the ground; haven't done any work on the lift or control authority yet
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L97[08:37:28] <Mat2ch> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Oq9PD41cno
L98[08:37:34] <Mat2ch> an SSTO with only 4 parts...
L99[08:38:28] <RoboFreak> yes, quite an old design at this point
L100[08:39:15] * darsie guesses Dart, FL800, fairing, some computer.
L101[08:39:33] <RoboFreak> intake, cockpit, tank, engine
L102[08:40:09] <darsie> k
L103[08:40:16] <darsie> Hybrid engine?
L104[08:40:44] <RoboFreak> rapier
L105[08:40:57] <darsie> Is that the hybrid one?
L106[08:41:03] <RoboFreak> jet/rocket
L107[08:41:08] <darsie> mhm
L108[08:45:19] <bees> Mat2ch: cant you use liquid booster part + random probe core on top?
L109[08:45:24] <bees> that would be 2 parts
L110[08:45:37] <RoboFreak> you can
L111[08:46:45] * darsie is ascending to orbit with Dart, FL-T800, cockpit.
L112[08:48:33] <darsie> failed, gotta fly better.
L113[08:48:43] <darsie> 862 m Pe
L114[08:52:41] <darsie> bees: Liquid booster with fuel and engine? Twin Boar?
L115[08:55:38] <darsie> Dart, FL-T800, cockpit in orbit: https://i.postimg.cc/b8DxHr4w/screenshot518.png
L116[08:55:39] <bees> yeah, that
L117[08:58:00] <darsie> bees: That would be high drag.
L118[08:58:24] <darsie> Might work, though.
L119[08:58:31] <darsie> If you go slow first.
L120[09:00:48] *** RoboFreak is now known as Althego
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L122[09:03:57] <darsie> bees: Worked! https://i.postimg.cc/rc3vQdmn/screenshot520.png
L123[09:05:12] <darsie> I'm surprised the twin boar doesn't make electricity.
L124[09:06:43] <Mat2ch> but it was about getting there on jet engines
L125[09:07:06] <Mat2ch> yes, I tried the twin boar version as well. :D
L126[09:07:43] <Mat2ch> iirc twin boar plus crew cabin works as well
L127[09:08:21] <flayer> ugh
L128[09:10:45] <bees> darsie: try with probe core - booster - nose cone
L129[09:10:57] <bees> idk if you can slap core at the bottom, though
L130[09:11:11] <bees> just curious how much did drag cost
L131[09:20:50] <darsie> https://i.postimg.cc/z8f4znQG/screenshot521.png Twin Boar + Cupola
L132[09:26:54] <flayer> nice
L133[09:27:05] <flayer> very elegant design
L134[09:27:06] <darsie> Mat2ch: Crew cabin has no controls.
L135[09:27:08] <darsie> :)
L136[09:27:50] <darsie> Oops, there's a Jeb in it. That's threep parts.
L137[09:28:35] <darsie> Doesn't work without pilot.
L138[09:29:44] <darsie> Could we make a Kerbal powered pedal generator?
L139[09:29:51] <Althego> lol
L140[09:29:59] <darsie> :)
L141[09:30:04] <Althego> but the question remains, what powers the kerbal in the base game?
L142[09:30:13] <darsie> Sunlight?
L143[09:30:20] <Althego> it is green...
L144[09:30:34] <Althego> but this is contrary to the fungus hypothesis i favor
L145[09:30:44] <Althego> maybe kerbals are lichen?
L146[09:31:50] <darsie> Put it in the inventory.
L147[09:32:40] <darsie> And a smaller hand crank version.
L148[09:38:25] <Izaya> can confirm, kerbals break rocks
L149[09:39:10] <Althego> rock paper scissors lizard jeb?
L150[09:44:05] <bees> Althego: You try to publish a paper about how pigs are actually plants. You discover how Kerbals reproduce and swear not to tell.
L151[09:44:17] <Althego> hehe
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L154[09:50:39] <darsie> Pigs use spirals for reproduction.
L155[09:51:49] <Althego> and ducks
L156[09:54:44] <Mat2ch> I thought Kerbals run on snacks..
L157[09:55:27] <Althego> only with mods
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L166[14:46:11] <darsie> .
L167[14:47:23] <Althego> isag time?
L168[14:48:06] <darsie> isag?
L169[14:48:19] <Althego> 1546
L170[14:48:20] <darsie> ah :)
L171[14:48:53] <darsie> it is
L172[14:51:19] <darsie> Kerbals are spawned in space.
L173[14:52:05] <darsie> I've hired them, too, when I wasn't in the mood of rescuing them till I found a suitable one.
L174[14:52:43] <darsie> ;mission
L175[14:52:43] <LunchBot> darsie: You obtain +o. Physics fails you, and you fall through the floor.
L176[14:53:15] <darsie> ;mission add You rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without landing on the Mun.
L177[14:53:15] <LunchBot> darsie: Added mission: You rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without landing on the Mun.
L178[14:53:56] <darsie> The perks of +o.
L179[14:54:14] <darsie> in the Matrix
L180[14:55:48] <darsie> We could make a wiki page with a list of records like cheapest rocket to orbit.
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L183[15:01:37] <Althego> i missed leet and kikkerikii
L184[15:01:51] <darsie> What did you do instead?
L185[15:02:06] <SporkWitch> sooooo... someone literally wrote an "adult" book about Systemd... lol
L186[15:02:46] <darsie> The adjective 'literally' seems very appropriate for books.
L187[15:02:54] <Althego> hehe
L188[15:04:21] <Althego> then that means, we are missing childern's book about systemd
L189[15:04:44] <darsie> I think systemd is not for kids.
L190[15:04:45] <Althego> how would you illustrate unit files with colorful pictures?
L191[15:04:47] <SporkWitch> hmm, does the autobot nuke spam? trying to post the book description but it's 16 lines lol
L192[15:05:46] <darsie> It's ok for kids to use systemd without being aware of it, but it's probably too much for them to dig too deep into it.
L193[15:06:39] <SporkWitch> "Not your normal Friday night in the computer room. Not a normal night anywhere. Terry is the archetypal old-school Unix admin, nurturing servers with care and precision while avoiding the latest trendy garbage. KDE and Gnome on a server? Nope, if you need a GUI use FVWM. The latest trend Terry refuses? One adopted almost everywhere? Systemd, the replacement init. So Systemd comes for Terry. Wearing skin-tight leather pant
L194[15:06:40] <SporkWitch> s. No, not a normal night in the computer room at all… (Declared "inappropriate for all audiences" by Amazon Advertising!)"
L195[15:07:43] <Althego> yes i declare it inappropate for everybody too
L196[15:09:35] <darsie> Is Tristen still a kid?
L197[15:14:44] <Althego> probably, without time travel
L198[15:17:04] <Mat2ch> SporkWitch: I, uh, what. Oh, Rule 34, I forgot. :D
L199[15:17:42] <Mat2ch> And if you install X on a server you should be haunted by the 9-tailed cat.
L200[15:19:42] <SporkWitch> Mat2ch: https://external-preview.redd.it/qNSHHibS_i3H7jXMAddEvvg1pbllOpMtk772dBKJbBk.jpg?auto=webp&s=a690be98c655bd719446e1f7697ac93d985f66a5
L201[15:21:48] <Mat2ch> I'm not sure if that is appropriate here... *chuckles*
L202[15:23:16] <darsie> :)
L203[15:23:21] <UmbralRaptor> Right, we'll have to haunt you with a 9-tailed fox instead
L204[15:24:04] <Mat2ch> I promise, I never installed X on a server!
L205[15:24:26] <SporkWitch> it's a cat5-of-nine-tails! lol
L206[15:25:08] <Mat2ch> That's too cheap for me. I need a cat7-of-nine-tails!
L207[15:25:42] <SporkWitch> cat7 is the displayport of ethernet cables, totally overpriced and unnecessary
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L211[17:57:29] <packbart> hm, yeah. not much use between cat5e and cat8
L212[17:59:25] <packbart> although 10Gbit is now cheap enough for home use
L213[17:59:39] <Althego> is that copper?
L214[18:00:06] <packbart> yes
L215[18:00:34] <Althego> now with ssds 1 gigabit is not fast anymore
L216[18:21:45] <SporkWitch> anyone use kurs? If so, how do i actually SHOW the camera? lol
L217[18:23:05] * flayer tackles SporkWitch
L218[18:23:43] <Althego> tackling better than tickling
L219[18:26:44] <flayer> i'm having some serious potato farts
L220[18:26:54] <flayer> it propels me forward
L221[18:27:15] <Althego> probably that is how space whales move
L222[18:27:25] <flayer> lol
L223[18:27:33] <SporkWitch> lol rockomax hub max connector: clearly has hatches on all connections, says "docking ports not included" >_< lol
L224[18:28:45] <packbart> well, they're bulkheads with hatches, not docking ports
L225[18:29:00] <SporkWitch> the whole thing could be an airlock! lol
L226[18:29:30] <packbart> but that would look odd if you connect crew compartments or similar to it
L227[18:34:06] <packbart> SSPX has useful 1.25m airlocks
L228[18:45:36] <Mat2ch> well, you can get 10 GBit from Cat6 A cables
L229[18:47:14] <Mat2ch> and if you need more, you might want to look at fiber
L230[18:47:42] <Althego> tha always looks overkill and complicated
L231[18:47:48] <Althego> not exactly consumer tech
L232[18:50:20] <Mat2ch> If you need more than 10 GBit at home, you are not a regular consumer anymore. :D
L233[18:52:36] <Althego> i just think 10 would be nice. maybe i would consider a nas too
L234[18:53:05] <Althego> modern wifi is faster than 1 gb ethernet
L235[18:53:08] <Althego> kind of silly
L236[18:53:14] <SporkWitch> anyone use kurs docking cam or know one that works on linux? It seems to be current version, but the camera never actually appears >_<
L237[18:53:55] <Althego> maybe rogozin of roscosmos can tell you about that :)
L238[18:54:20] <SporkWitch> i don't actually struggle to dock, it'd just be really nice lol
L239[18:55:54] <packbart> it's a linuxgurugamer mod. he plays KSP on Windows but might know more about it
L240[18:56:09] <SporkWitch> that's rather ironic lol
L241[18:56:12] <Mat2ch> Althego: the tell you it is faster, but did you really measure it?
L242[18:56:46] <Althego> inside a room it would be probably
L243[18:57:23] <Althego> but doesnt really matter, this router is already several years old, and i still dont have any fast wifi device
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L245[19:04:13] <SporkWitch> love my AC3100, but I'll probably make the move to ubituiti if/when I need to replace it or expand my network
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L251[20:42:41] <SporkWitch> i think it might actually have been a mod that was causing the oddities with temperature last night. I removed restock (didn't even mean to have it, another mod grabbed it), and now my small drill and miner are sitting stable at perfect temp
L252[20:42:51] <SporkWitch> with single medium TCS, as the maths suggest
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L255[21:23:01] <packbart> hmyeah, that Extra Docking Ports mod doesn't work without Restock, causing MM errors. Maybe I can figure out what's wrong and put in a bug report/patch
L256[21:23:28] <packbart> I don't like Restock much, tbh. ymmv
L257[21:24:52] <SporkWitch> definitely removed it once i noticed it lol. now all the craft i've tweaked are yelling at me when i load them lol
L258[21:25:43] <packbart> and some of them might look odd because the part models have different geometries
L259[21:26:19] <SporkWitch> yeah
L260[21:26:37] <SporkWitch> don't think i ran into that with any of what i was using, but performance was definitely slightly different
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L262[21:27:30] <SporkWitch> i think i've resigned myself to giving up on my self-refueling SSTO spaceplane, though. Just need to strap way too many batteries on it to last through the minmus night and thus not have to manually manage toggling things
L263[21:27:43] <SporkWitch> i ran the maths and i COULD do 45 RTGs lol
L264[21:28:13] <packbart> fuel cells not an option?
L265[21:28:34] <SporkWitch> with the absurdly low production rate as it is?
L266[21:28:57] <packbart> ah. right. they work well with the large converter
L267[21:29:12] <SporkWitch> yeah, the large has net gain
L268[21:31:31] <SporkWitch> would take four fuel cell arrays to run the liquid+ox mode (since it's per product costs), which would consume ~130% of the produced fuel and oxidizer lol
L269[21:31:51] <SporkWitch> since the drill can't keep up, so single-mode is only generating about 0.1 unit per second
L270[21:32:35] <SporkWitch> just have to make sure it can keep going through the night or the ISRU overheats and the drill shuts down (the drill stops and has to be restarted after stopping time warp, the ISRU keeps going even with no power and just keeps building heat)
L271[21:33:05] <SporkWitch> just no viable way to do it that i can see, unless I solve the problems with a mk3 size, or totally redesign around an exposed large ISRU and trill
L272[21:33:08] <SporkWitch> *drill
L273[21:33:32] <SporkWitch> more likely, i'm thinking i'll construct a refinery to send to minmus and design a simple drone fuel carrier
L274[21:34:26] <SporkWitch> i do wish the EVA building were more robust, though. It's just so limiting only really being able to bolt things on, not properly assemble larger structures, so you have to land them intact or give them wheels and dock them
L275[21:41:07] <SporkWitch> did the maths and the 45 RTGs would only way less than 4t, but obviously take up a lot of space lol
L276[21:41:22] <packbart> and cost a lot of credits
L277[21:41:58] <SporkWitch> yeah, but that's the point of an infinitely reusable craft :P
L278[21:42:09] <SporkWitch> also just noticed RTGs require cooling, too... lol
L279[21:43:00] <packbart> yeah, but usually the craft's thermal mass and radiation can deal with that
L280[21:43:28] <SporkWitch> on 45 of them? lol
L281[22:30:05] <bees> SporkWitch: set time warp to 10000+
L282[22:30:12] <bees> magically all drills start working
L283[22:31:03] <SporkWitch> basically just gave up on it. Now I'm working on a drone lander with drills and refinery lol
L284[22:41:50] <bees> game stops simulating _something_ at high time warps, presumably heat system
L285[22:42:13] <bees> so as long as you can survive one tick of warp, it works forever
L286[22:42:29] <SporkWitch> bit TOO cheaty at that point lol
L287[22:43:29] <SporkWitch> struggling to get started on designing thls mobile refinery. any suggestions on ideal number of drills and ISRUs? Presumably only need one container since the ISRU's should be draining it pretty fast
L288[22:43:56] <SporkWitch> it'll mainly be for minmus and other light moons, so can have stupid payload capacity
L289[22:48:01] <bees> if you _can_ achieve the same result manually with constant start/stop cycles, not _that_ cheaty
L290[22:48:14] <bees> just wait 2-3x time that it would take you normally, i guess?
L291[22:50:50] * flayer prods bees
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L295[23:18:17] <XXCoder> ;mission
L296[23:18:17] <LunchBot> XXCoder: You design a rocket fueled by mashed bananas and matchsticks. You exit the realm of possiblity.
L297[23:28:13] ⇦ Quits: sandbox (~sandbox@host-92-14-216-240.as13285.net) (Quit: Leaving)
L298[23:36:25] <packbart> radioactive fuel
L299[23:48:33] <bees> XXCoder: You design a series of planetary probes around the paradigm of exchanging reaction mass for ablative lithobraking equipment. The petunias think to themselves "Not again."
L300[23:49:00] <XXCoder> indeed lol
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