OCLogs: 2021-09-17.log

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L10[02:49:50] <minas_tirith> JVFoxy, hi

L11[02:55:48] * umbralraptop waves

L12[02:56:46] <minas_tirith> umbralraptop, hi uwu

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L15[03:06:17] <JVFoxy> hullo

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L46[11:57:05] <FLHerne> Latest Waves of Steel feature https://i.imgur.com/eUP8DA1.mp4

L47[11:58:48] <Althego> lol

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L49[12:21:42] <dave> hello

L50[12:21:43] <Mod9000> Hello, dave

L51[12:21:55] *** dave is now known as Guest42890

L52[12:22:06] <Guest42890> just reinstalled KSP

L53[12:23:47] <Althego> hehe, should have daid "just what do you think you are doing dave?"

L54[12:23:56] <Guest42890> anyone got any good tips for optimising KSP on win? I have one mod installed Mechjeb2. is installed on a m2 raid with a good gpu and cpu, but when I build bigger ship, 200-300 parts

L55[12:24:11] <Guest42890> im getting very low fps

L56[12:24:24] <Guest42890> lol

L57[12:24:26] <Althego> sadly you must optimize with single threaded cpu performance

L58[12:24:38] <Guest42890> ok

L59[12:25:08] <Althego> the physics supposedly requires that

L60[12:26:17] <Guest42890> yeah my cpu kind of sucks at single treaded streams too :(

L61[12:26:18] <Guest42890> lol

L62[12:26:22] <Guest42890> oh well

L63[12:27:50] <Guest42890> do you know if they make a unix ver?

L64[12:28:16] <Althego> unix, no. but it should run on linux

L65[12:28:23] <Guest42890> lol ok yeah

L66[12:28:25] <Guest42890> linux

L67[12:29:03] <Guest42890> too bad that the Nvidia drivers only work half the time

L68[12:29:07] <Guest42890> but will try

L69[12:29:36] <Guest42890> how have you found the game?

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L71[12:32:11] <FLHerne> It's great, that's why we're here :D

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L73[12:53:17] <Izaya> throwback to the only stable 64-bit version of the game being the linux one

L74[13:01:01] * darsie uses Linux.

L75[13:01:16] <darsie> debian

L76[13:01:51] <Althego> bird is coming

L77[13:01:57] <umaxtu> I use Linux too. just not on my gaming rig

L78[13:02:07] <darsie> I don't have Windows.

L79[13:02:21] <Althego> the only useful feature of windows it that it can start your games

L80[13:02:29] <darsie> :)

L81[13:03:45] <Althego> kikkerikii

L82[13:07:15] <deadmind> how is the Linux version of KSP? I only tried it one time, was surprised that it felt a bit faster, but it had problems with basic keys like Alt

L83[13:07:49] <deadmind> having built my entire PC on the idea that it might make ksp performance better (3 years ago) i would kill for an extra 5%.

L84[13:07:58] <deadmind> or just not having to restart it every 3-4 reverts

L85[13:08:26] <Althego> i have tried it years ago but that was a development pc, so not much of graphics hardware

L86[13:08:27] * deadmind <-- also has an M2 SSD solely for the purpose of making KSP (re)load faster, my OS lives on a slow SATA SSD

L87[13:08:59] <deadmind> eh who cares about graphics :D

L88[13:09:54] <FLHerne> It just kind of works

L89[13:11:13] <deadmind> is it worth dual-booting for? performance-wise

L90[13:11:42] <deadmind> degraded performance after first flight is like my #1, #2 and #3 problem with KSP lol, i am willing to go to significant lengths

L91[13:11:44] <darsie> deadmind: I don't play it much anymore, but it mostly works. Crashes occasionally. My huge Kerbol escape quad NERV comet pusher unfortunately is unstable, mostly.

L92[13:12:05] <darsie> With complex rockets it does slow down.

L93[13:12:32] <darsie> i7-3770, NVIDIA Corporation GM107 [GeForce GTX 750 Ti] (rev a2), 8 GB, SSD.

L94[13:12:34] <deadmind> hm, mostly works is actually better than one can usually expect from game ports

L95[13:12:45] <darsie> No, 16 GB.

L96[13:12:53] <deadmind> ahh finally someone with an older GPU than my 960 :D

L97[13:12:58] <deadmind> i used to have a 750ti

L98[13:14:14] <umaxtu> great card for its day

L99[13:14:56] <darsie> It's an odd HP office PC. 6 (8?) pin mainboard power plug. The power supply didn't have a graphics power cable, but fortunately there were empty solder holes where I could solder the cable from my previous PS.

L100[13:15:22] <Althego> hehe

L101[13:15:30] <FLHerne> deadmind: No idea, I haven't played games on a Windows machine in a decade

L102[13:15:59] <FLHerne> KSP is slow with high part counts, that's just KSP :p

L103[13:16:12] <FLHerne> I really doubt the OS makes any difference

L104[13:16:33] <Izaya> I used two GTX 690s for a while, that was painful with NVIDIA drivers and the fact that they put out 600W of heat.

L105[13:16:39] <FLHerne> it's all the internal physics calculations, some of which have horrible complexity

L106[13:16:42] <Althego> yes, that would primarily make difference in graphics performance

L107[13:16:50] <FLHerne> O(n^3) or something

L108[13:16:55] <Althego> but since usually ksp is cpu limited with big builds, it is not much of an issue

L109[13:17:25] <FLHerne> Yeah, for KSP you just need a GPU that's "enough"

L110[13:17:42] <Izaya> Scatterer and similar can really hammer one's GPU though

L111[13:17:53] <Izaya> Maxes my 580 quite happily >.>

L112[13:18:03] <darsie> I once tried to make a Christmas tree. Lots and lots of Communotron 16 antennas as needles. It got so slow that it didn't finish in time in the VAB...

L113[13:18:32] <Althego> hehe

L114[13:18:42] <deadmind> i am not so much bothered by the performance due to high part counts, i am more bothered by performance consistently degrading with each revert/quickload

L115[13:18:58] <Althego> yes that is annoying

L116[13:19:04] <Althego> probably never going to be fixed

L117[13:19:07] <FLHerne> I haven't noticed that

L118[13:19:17] <Althego> if you build and test something complicated

L119[13:19:17] <umaxtu> me neither

L120[13:19:17] <bees> going from 4670k to 5900x made KSP into a different game for me

L121[13:19:26] <deadmind> the entire way i play ksp is centered around that, habitually reloading KSP mid-mission (sacrificing ability to revert too) to get some perf back

L122[13:19:30] <Althego> after several hours you can notice that the scene change is considerably slower

L123[13:19:36] <Althego> and it will get slower with time

L124[13:19:47] <Althego> to the point where it is faster to restart the game than to wait for a change

L125[13:19:48] <darsie> I'd like to play RO/RSS/RP1, but it never was mature enough to make significant advances.

L126[13:19:51] <umaxtu> bees, I must be playing ksp wrong then

L127[13:19:54] <FLHerne> I still haven't noticed that at all

L128[13:19:57] <deadmind> especially since the maneuver planning glitches (like when it turns off the node widget on you if you click for the wrong amount of milliseconds) get MUCH worse with a bit of fps sag

L129[13:20:15] <bees> when you can actually timewarp at 4x with your 100-200 part ships

L130[13:20:19] <bees> it is glorious

L131[13:20:28] <Izaya> KSP is one of the few games I think a newer CPU would really help me for, 4790 is still reasonably stronk

L132[13:21:06] <bees> and scene changes are 2x as fast

L133[13:21:16] <bees> and they drop from 'annoying' to 'okay' level

L134[13:21:41] <darsie> deadmind: I often save to game 0 after accepting a contract.

L135[13:21:47] <darsie> And I use dated quicksaves.

L136[13:22:11] <deadmind> Izaya: i built my first top-end PC in '18 driven solely by that idea lol

L137[13:22:22] <deadmind> got the best cpu amd could offer (2700x)

L138[13:22:28] <Izaya> 2018 is when I got the 4790, haha

L139[13:22:46] <deadmind> got expensive overclockable RAM for it because AMD actually can benefit, and i knew everything will depend on the cpu

L140[13:23:02] <Izaya> my 4160 couldn't run games well with DXVK so I got an optiplex with a 4790 for less than a 4790 costs on its own

L141[13:23:15] <deadmind> 100 part spaceplane, takes 2 retries to get to orbit? heh too bad, gotta restart!

L142[13:23:27] <Izaya> I've become quite attached to haswell

L143[13:23:57] <bees> i wonder if upcoming v-cache zens can fit the whole physics engine in cache

L144[13:24:07] <bees> and deliver insane gains in KSP

L145[13:24:22] <bees> they already do that to the lesser extent in Starcraft 2

L146[13:24:47] <deadmind> that would be amazing

L147[13:25:16] <deadmind> i am already considering saving up for a 5000 series cpu to maybe help with ksp a little bit

L148[13:25:24] <deadmind> seeing how they improved the IPC specifically

L149[13:25:30] <umaxtu> they're good chips

L150[13:25:37] <deadmind> but... this is entirely irrational cost/reward rofl

L151[13:25:54] <Izaya> the big barrier for me is having to replace most of my system for it

L152[13:26:17] <bees> 5000 for KSP is amazing, 10/10

L153[13:26:24] <Izaya> I can't just upgrade the processor, I have to get a new motherboard and new RAM and I should really get new storage and >.>

L154[13:26:24] <umaxtu> might as well wait for zen4 then

L155[13:26:30] <deadmind> do you guys think with KSP2, the original KSP source code will be released? it would be an insanely good PR move and would keep the game alive for many more years

L156[13:26:44] <umaxtu> nah,

L157[13:26:51] <deadmind> would be awesome to see that gameloop and what people can do to optimize it

L158[13:27:02] <darsie> Shall we do a benchmark? Build a standard ship and measure FPS?

L159[13:27:15] <deadmind> Izaya: that sucks :/

L160[13:27:20] <deadmind> i had to do that too for the 2700x

L161[13:27:29] <deadmind> not keen on repeating 3 years later due to the same game lol

L162[13:27:39] <Izaya> Doesn't help that prices have ballooned a bunch >.>

L163[13:27:57] <bees> welcome to inflation

L164[13:28:06] <Izaya> I could buy another bike for the sort of money I'd need to upgrade my machine

L165[13:28:08] <deadmind> i thought CPUs are relatively ok because you can't train AI on them

L166[13:28:10] <deadmind> pricewise

L167[13:29:01] <deadmind> darsie: not a bad idea, i'm in (after work)

L168[13:30:16] <deadmind> i also am still mulling over an idea I had last year where you have two instances of KSP running at the same time and you coordinate scene loads using a program

L169[13:30:32] <deadmind> seems the only thing possible without source code access or major disassembly efforts

L170[13:31:00] <Izaya> ooo, that's a fun idea

L171[13:31:05] <deadmind> so that when you launch, the other KSP stays in the editor, and if you revert it just alt+tabs back to that one

L172[13:31:08] <Izaya> if only KSP didn't use so much memory x_x

L173[13:31:17] <deadmind> while the other can even be restarted to reset the FPS sag

L174[13:31:49] <deadmind> well... i upgraded to 16gb for KSP. and now it's not using it all, so... might as well try to make use of it :D

L175[13:32:06] <Izaya> I have 16GB and it eats into swap and then some >.>

L176[13:32:15] <Izaya> Can't really complain given the number of mods I use though

L177[13:32:24] <deadmind> ahh, realism stuff?

L178[13:33:27] <deadmind> i have minimized modcount over time and forego all graphics mods

L179[13:35:22] <deadmind> i think it usually fits in under 6GB, though that might also be due to the frequent restarting

L180[13:37:34] <Izaya> No, just lots and lots of parts. I'm too stupid for anything overly realistic >.>

L181[13:39:09] <deadmind> hahah

L182[13:40:09] <deadmind> i can sympathize, i tend to do hyper-efficiency optimization stuff (don't ask me why, i never show off my craft:D) and very often you have to use an inordinate amount of parts because the best mass fraction parts are small

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L184[13:40:42] <deadmind> i have a better sense of what kind of structural things make performance worse though so that's one of my primary optimizations now

L185[13:41:04] <Izaya> I'm big on low-cost stuff and automation; I have a kOS script to do tourist runs with zero human input

L186[13:41:14] <Izaya> Returns them to within 5km or so of the pad.

L187[13:41:57] <deadmind> in order of priority: 1. most deltaV on orbit for the least mass 2. best FPS performance structurally and from partcount 3. everything else (easy to fly etc)

L188[13:42:10] <deadmind> wow neat

L189[13:42:34] <deadmind> i just recently got kOS reinstalled and added a little utility panel with buttons for common stuff

L190[13:42:48] <deadmind> such as warp out of atmosphere, execute burn, create circ burn

L191[13:42:59] <deadmind> yours sounds x100 more complex than that

L192[13:43:22] <Izaya> my stuff is very dumb

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L194[13:44:31] <Izaya> sit on terminal velocity until Ap is above 75km, slowly tilting, then circularise, then set the Trajectories mod target to the KSC and time offset the retrograde burn until it hits nearby

L195[13:44:35] <bees> 2. unclip parts when they slightly clip by default snap

L196[13:44:45] <bees> giant performance gains a few patches ago

L197[13:44:51] <bees> dont really care right now, though:D

L198[13:46:24] <umaxtu> you can use the trajectories mod in kos?

L199[13:46:43] <Izaya> yup

L200[13:48:46] <umaxtu> that's awesome! I keep meaning to get into kOS, but then I never do

L201[13:49:39] <Izaya> the language is mildly painful but it's fine™

L202[13:49:48] <Izaya> it's very useful though

L203[14:32:10] <darsie> I tried making a benchmark rocket: https://i.postimg.cc/HdCCCxDv/screenshot350.png Took 3:02 from launch to impact at 4x warp.

L204[14:34:29] <Althego> so many stabilziers

L205[14:34:40] <darsie> Sparks

L206[14:34:47] <Althego> stream sparks

L207[14:34:56] <Althego> (and heart challenger)

L208[14:35:04] <darsie> 5 crew

L209[14:35:19] <Althego> also sparks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBukpYea4mQ

L210[14:35:38] <bees> part count?

L211[14:35:46] <bees> i think it should be ~100-150 for the test

L212[14:39:09] <darsie> https://ufile.io/12udwou5 benchmark.craft

L213[14:39:54] <darsie> 152/169 parts

L214[14:41:27] <darsie> full thrust, SAS, radial out, simultaneously stage and start stop watch, at 30 km prograde, at impact stop stop watch.

L215[14:41:34] <darsie> Don't change view.

L216[14:54:50] <bees> 2:35

L217[14:55:34] <bees> reentry flashed between (rarely) red and (mostly) green clock, other than that i think it run on maximum speed the whole time

L218[14:56:10] <bees> 197-ish km Ap

L219[15:07:34] <darsie> I guess we need something more complex.

L220[15:09:37] <darsie> Ohh, I forgot 4x warp in the manual.

L221[15:10:51] <bees> lack of 4x warp would result in ~10+ minutes times, which should be obvious

L222[15:11:26] <darsie> also 5 (or 3?) crew

L223[15:12:02] <darsie> Are women more complex? :)

L224[15:14:16] <bees> also not neccesary more complex, but more time in atmo, perhaps?

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L229[16:30:06] <darsie> bees: idk, it's pretty long in the atmosphere during ascent.

L230[16:47:41] <NGC3982> /lastlog postimg.cc for that darsie goodness.

L231[16:48:03] <darsie> hmm?

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L233[16:59:46] <bees> darsie: it is only long on a weak pcs, i assume

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L240[18:56:44] <Dman979> TheKosmonaut sup dude

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L248[20:54:56] <darsie> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E71ffwc13y4 stream live

L249[20:55:04] <darsie> Inspiration4 | In-Flight Update with the Crew

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L252[21:10:55] <Guest21671> hello!

L253[21:11:13] <Guest21671> lol, dead chat

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L255[21:12:41] <darsie> .

L256[21:21:51] <umbralraptop> ping

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L265[22:05:47] <FLHerne> *one minute* attention span?

L266[22:05:52] <FLHerne> I just don't get it

L267[22:08:41] <umbralraptop> Maybe they're literal children?

L268[22:09:38] <FLHerne> I guess so

L269[22:10:06] <FLHerne> but I had a longer attention span when I was about 5 :p

L270[22:10:38] <FLHerne> (ironically, I have a much shorter one these days for some reason)

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L273[22:16:42] * umbralraptop slips ritalin into FLHerne's tea

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L280[22:38:16] <XXCoder> ;mission

L281[22:38:16] <LunchBot> XXCoder: You attempt a Star Wars-style attack run through Dres' canyon. Ia! Ia! Supernovy fhtagn!

L282[22:38:31] <XXCoder> hell of a combo

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L284[22:40:25] <umbralraptop> If there are any survivors, they'll go mad from the revelation

L285[22:52:20] <XXCoder> yep

L286[22:54:07] <FLHerne> You know those "Force" voices whispering in your head?

L287[22:54:21] <FLHerne> Listening to supernatural voices in your head is rarely a good idea

L288[22:55:04] <umbralraptop> The power of the Dark Side might in part being just constantly telling force sensitive people to kill

L289[22:56:28] <FLHerne> well, even if they're apparently well-meaning

L290[22:57:30] <FLHerne> The supposed "good" force users cause a collapse of law and order in the galaxy and the Endor Holocaust

L291[22:58:07] <FLHerne> and then set up a totally ineffective government that allows an insane cult to overthrow it instantly

L292[23:19:06] * umbralraptop wishes that the sequels were more coherent

L293[23:19:21] <XXCoder> yeah hell of a hack

L294[23:19:38] <XXCoder> it come up in just right time to become really popular

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L297[23:35:04] <TwistenX> helo

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L300[23:37:30] <Izaya> one minute 5 seconds

L301[23:38:41] <FLHerne> Yeah, but that's TwistenX trolling us :p