OCLogs: 2021-06-21.log

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L4[00:19:46] <Solar_Oracle> "The first and most oppressive lie ever uttered was the song of freedom."

L5[00:19:49] * Solar_Oracle agrees.

L6[00:20:48] <raptop> sounds vaguely 40k

L7[00:21:44] <Solar_Oracle> "Blessed is the mind too small for doubt."

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L9[00:23:54] <Solar_Oracle> "An open mind is like an open fortress, with its gates unbarred and unguarded."

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L11[00:27:30] <Solar_Oracle> I thought it'd be funny to crowdsource decisions for a game of BattleTech 2018 or let a bot decide.

L12[00:31:56] * raptop feels like the decision quality would be amusingly high variance

L13[00:36:06] <Solar_Oracle> It'd make for a hilarious character creation process at the least.

L14[00:36:27] <Solar_Oracle> Although combat would be real odd if no one knows how to BattleTech

L15[00:36:41] <Solar_Oracle> "Just fire one salvo of LRM-5s! DO IT!"

L16[00:37:36] <raptop> "No, no, you should alpha-strike every turn"

L17[00:38:26] <Solar_Oracle> "WARNING! Temperature critical!"

L18[00:39:17] <Solar_Oracle> "Just send up the Locust 3-M to point blank range! Who CARES if it's armored in tissue paper!?"

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L21[01:16:51] <Solar_Oracle> Wait, did someone say Betelgeuse three times?

L22[01:19:41] <raptop> supernova! supernova! supernova!

L23[01:19:55] <raptop> (hey, it's worth a shot)

L24[01:20:17] <Solar_Oracle> Might not be as spectacular as you're hoping given the reduction in mass estimates.

L25[01:21:13] <raptop> Eh, it's something like 500x closer than SN 1987A, and visible from the northern hemisphere

L26[01:22:17] <Solar_Oracle> Plot twist: Betelgeuse is even closer and far smaller and just a red dwarf start orbiting Sol that looks irregular because an intern smudged the telescope lense.

L27[01:22:45] <raptop> aaaaa

L28[01:23:33] <Solar_Oracle> As it turns out, there's no Planet IX, but we ARE in a binary system! Oho ho ho ho.

L29[01:24:06] <Solar_Oracle> https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91mF--DO4iL.jpg

L30[01:33:14] * raptop never read that one

L31[01:34:50] <Solar_Oracle> It's one of his very last, in fact.

L32[01:35:17] <Solar_Oracle> Written back when the idea of a companion star was very popular.

L33[01:35:26] <Solar_Oracle> Nowadays, Nibiru is all nonsense.

L34[01:36:40] <raptop> ah

L35[01:37:00] <raptop> (I mean, this would have been before anyone had properly found the kuiper belt or brown dwarfs)

L36[01:38:23] <Solar_Oracle> Shhh, little Oort Cloud, we'll find you.

L37[01:38:53] <Solar_Oracle> Though I still think the potential danger of cometary objects is hilariously overblown.

L38[01:41:21] * raptop 's understanding is that impact risks are dominated by NEOs

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L40[02:09:00] <Solar_Oracle> Objects that cross Earth's orbit within a similar plane around once a year are going to present a greater risk of impact than objects that cross on highly inclined orbits once every thousand years.

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L70[08:52:32] <FLHerne> !mission add You stage an F1 race with spare Saturn V engines.

L71[08:52:33] <LunchBot> FLHerne: Added mission: You stage an F1 race with spare Saturn V engines.

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L73[08:52:46] <FLHerne> (credit to raptop)

L74[08:58:52] <UmbralRaptop> yay

L75[08:59:23] <dnsmcbr> "spare"

L76[09:02:44] <Truga> lol

L77[09:03:52] <FLHerne> !stupid fixup s/spare/"spare"/

L78[09:03:53] <LunchBot> FLHerne: No recently-mentioned stupid quote found matching "spare".

L79[09:04:03] <FLHerne> !mission fixup s/spare/"spare"/

L80[09:04:04] <LunchBot> FLHerne: New text is: You stage an F1 race with "spare" Saturn V engines.

L81[09:04:11] <FLHerne> I keep meaning to unify that

L82[09:26:23] <minas_tirith> FLHerne, hey

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L100[12:02:52] <Deddly> !nextlunch

L101[12:02:52] <LunchBot> Deddly: Gruel of Indecision.

L102[12:03:05] <Deddly> Hmm, I can't decide whether I really want that

L103[12:03:20] <Althego> hehe

L104[12:04:58] <Izaya> quiz: what's louder: a ZXR250 with a chopped exhaust or an F-1 engine

L105[12:05:20] <Althego> i vote for the f-1

L106[12:05:28] <Althego> generally rocket engines are really loud

L107[12:05:44] <Izaya> this is true, but a tiny 4-pot engine with no muffler is pretty loud too

L108[12:05:55] <Izaya> evidently we need to get one of both and find out

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L110[12:10:35] <darsie> In space nobody can hear rocket engines.

L111[12:11:18] <Deddly> In space, no-one can hear your ICE, either.

L112[12:12:46] <Althego> oh no they can. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8445

L113[12:15:26] <Deddly> Touché

L114[12:15:55] <Althego> stupid TLAs

L115[12:45:13] <sandbox> IDK

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L135[15:42:30] <Althego> what, bird? since she is on holiday, this will be only an 8 hour long stream :)

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L142[16:05:21] <raptop> !mission add Today is a good day to die.

L143[16:05:21] <LunchBot> raptop: Added mission: Today is a good day to die.

L144[16:05:29] <raptop> !outcome add Today is a good day to die.

L145[16:05:30] <LunchBot> raptop: Added outcome: Today is a good day to die.

L146[16:05:34] <raptop> (It works for both, see)

L147[16:06:53] <Althego> hehe she burned the noodles. also moved the holiday one day

L148[16:07:25] <Althego> kikkerikii

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L150[16:08:33] <raptop> green floofy cat

L151[16:09:45] <Mat2ch> !mission

L152[16:09:45] <LunchBot> Mat2ch: You attempt to do a return flight from Jool. The launch vehicle is too large for the lander and your craft overheats.

L153[16:10:10] <Mat2ch> What do we learn from this? Never launch too fast from Jool.

L154[16:13:03] <Althego> cat lag generator

L155[16:18:54] *** Guest04134 is now known as stupid_chris

L156[16:19:29] <stupid_chris> Jesus this is a blast from the past, had no idea this server was still alive

L157[16:20:49] <raptop> IRC is immortal

L158[16:21:01] <stupid_chris> Death, Taxes, and IRC

L159[16:21:06] <Althego> will be here even when facebook is gone

L160[16:21:09] <raptop> see eg: how someone tried to launch a hostile takeover of freenode and now libera.chat exists

L161[16:21:17] <Althego> maybe even after the end of civilziation

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L163[16:27:36] <jgkamat> irc is a protocol, fb is a service. So of course irc will last longer

L164[16:28:25] <Althego> but somebody needs to run the server

L165[16:28:30] <Althego> and in that case it is a service

L166[16:28:32] <jgkamat> and that someone can be you :)

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L181[17:03:33] <Althego> hehe constant tangents for an hour, no superchat read yet

L182[17:05:16] <Deddly> Oh hey stupid_chris is here :)

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L184[17:05:43] <Deddly> Whacha up to these days?

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L187[17:06:45] <Deddly> As in, what else could you possibly be doing that doesn't involve IRC? ;)

L188[17:07:47] <Deddly> I find it surprising that relatively few people actually know about this channel. There is a direct link to it on the forum, but I guess people just go where they are used to going

L189[17:09:37] <stupid_chris> Deddly I was mostly wondering if this was still active, haven't actually been in here in like... 5 years

L190[17:09:51] <stupid_chris> Not too long after I left the mod team basically

L191[17:10:28] <stupid_chris> .... Uh okay yeah more like nearly 7 years

L192[17:10:35] <stupid_chris> I forget how long ago early 2015 was

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L194[17:10:55] <Deddly> Hehe. Time flies when you're having fun, eh?

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L196[17:11:06] <stupid_chris> If by that you mean suffering in university

L197[17:11:07] <stupid_chris> Sure

L198[17:11:16] <stupid_chris> *pain*

L199[17:11:33] <Althego> why did the orange stop? because it ran out of juice

L200[17:11:51] <Althego> (2 stupid dogs)

L201[17:12:05] <stupid_chris> But to answer your question Deddly, I'm actually making a return to KSP and modding in general

L202[17:12:16] <stupid_chris> Having a career and free time does wonder for your mental health

L203[17:12:30] <Althego> because of the end of development or because of ksp2?

L204[17:12:35] <Deddly> That's nice to hear, stupid_chris

L205[17:12:40] <stupid_chris> That's mostly coincidental

L206[17:13:06] <FLHerne> wait, what end of development?

L207[17:13:22] <Althego> 1.12 is the last minor update for ksp 1

L208[17:13:27] <stupid_chris> I got my job last October, and I only have one uni class left

L209[17:13:33] <Althego> only patch releases after that

L210[17:14:02] <FLHerne> Really? That's a shame :-(

L211[17:14:09] <FLHerne> Oh well, there are always mods

L212[17:14:25] <stupid_chris> So free time came through in May, I've had RealChute 2 on the backburner for years, so it kinda fell on my plate again

L213[17:14:44] <stupid_chris> Got some good progress in, been streaming dev a bit on twitch as well

L214[17:15:08] <stupid_chris> Amongst other goodies, dynamic parachute deflection: https://imgur.com/a/g4F4cLv

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L224[17:33:20] <Deddly> Althego, last *major* update

L225[17:33:34] <Althego> no, minor, since the last major update is 1.0

L226[17:34:07] <Deddly> They call it the last major update

L227[17:34:18] <Althego> which increases the minor version

L228[17:34:21] <Althego> so it is a minor update :)

L229[17:34:24] <Deddly> Minor updates are mainly bug fixes

L230[17:34:37] <stupid_chris> If you want to be technical about version numbers, yes 1.0 is major. But in the real world, software is what matters, and a major update is defined as something that causes changes large enough to break stuff<

L231[17:34:54] <Althego> and that is why major numbers are used for that

L232[17:35:03] <Deddly> OK so, semantically, it's a minor number update, but it is a major update

L233[17:35:10] <stupid_chris> ^

L234[17:35:22] <stupid_chris> It's all been major updates yes

L235[17:35:23] <Althego> let's call it the last content update

L236[17:35:48] <Deddly> We don't know if 1.12.1 will have any content :P

L237[17:35:49] <stupid_chris> 1.0 was more of a "feature complete" flag

L238[17:36:07] <Althego> yes in this case you could feel they were rushing the version numbers toreach 1.0

L239[17:36:25] <stupid_chris> Nah, they simply reached the original scope of the game

L240[17:36:37] <stupid_chris> Everything that came after was simply expanded scope, it's fairly common

L241[17:36:43] <Althego> from 0.24 went to what, 0.7 i cant remember

L242[17:36:51] <Deddly> It went to 0.9

L243[17:36:53] <stupid_chris> 0.90

L244[17:37:01] <sandbox> hello there :)

L245[17:37:02] <stupid_chris> 0.9 != 0.90

L246[17:37:07] <Althego> obi-wan?

L247[17:37:08] <Deddly> 0.9x was "Beta Than Ever"

L248[17:37:15] <Deddly> Good point, stupid_chris

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L250[17:37:34] <Althego> yes, he is right, i missed a 0 there

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L252[17:37:55] <stupid_chris> Common mistake made is to assume version numbers are numerical

L253[17:38:02] <Deddly> Yeah

L254[17:38:15] <stupid_chris> They should really be treated as text

L255[17:38:22] <Deddly> It would be nice if it was something like 1v12 instead

L256[17:38:22] <sandbox> I felt they rushed the version numbers too

L257[17:38:33] <Deddly> They totally rushed 1.0

L258[17:39:02] <Deddly> It went from alpha -> beta -> release in no time

L259[17:39:04] <stupid_chris> Probably, but I think Felipe wanted to release it and move on at the point

L260[17:40:22] <Deddly> stupid_chris, as someone who almost exclusively lands things on wings, what does the video you linked to above showcase?

L261[17:40:39] <Deddly> Oh wait, there are more videos

L262[17:40:50] <stupid_chris> Parachutes not clipping into each other

L263[17:40:59] <Deddly> That's pretty sweet

L264[17:41:05] <stupid_chris> Dynamically, so not like stock that lets you just put a deflection angle

L265[17:41:27] <stupid_chris> Requires a very minor setup at the part level, but nothing insane

L266[17:41:39] <stupid_chris> Just adding a trigger collider to the canopies and animate it along

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L268[17:41:40] <Deddly> Interesting. So on yours, what happens if you spam parachutes?

L269[17:41:46] <stupid_chris> They move out of the way

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L271[17:41:56] <stupid_chris> The best they can at least

L272[17:42:02] <Deddly> I mean, there has to be a limit

L273[17:42:13] <stupid_chris> Not really

L274[17:42:23] <stupid_chris> I tested it with 8 way symmetry, went nicely

L275[17:42:46] <Deddly> I think you underestimate the number of parachutes people put on their heavy Eve landers ;)

L276[17:43:06] <stupid_chris> And you underestimate the concept of RealChute :P

L277[17:43:10] <Deddly> I'm imagining numbers where the parachutes would end up almost horizontal, or more

L278[17:43:27] <stupid_chris> Stop spamming the number of parachutes, and just put a handful of appropriately sized parachutes

L279[17:43:49] <Deddly> Oh I agree with that. I was just wondering what would happen. I have seen some crazy stuff

L280[17:44:02] <stupid_chris> They'd get out of the way, theres no upper limit to the logic

L281[17:44:23] <stupid_chris> It just detects all those around and moves out of the way from their common center point

L282[17:44:41] <Deddly> Sounds very useful.

L283[17:45:04] <Deddly> I would love to see what it looks like with 30 parachutes vying for the same space

L284[17:45:28] <stupid_chris> Probably a big circle

L285[17:45:58] <stupid_chris> It's a greedy algorithm, it doesn't find an optimal solution, just the easiest one

L286[17:46:14] <stupid_chris> Ain't about to do sphere packing lmao

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L288[17:46:19] <Deddly> :)

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L290[17:46:44] <stupid_chris> But it's overwhelmingly unlikely to happen because of the core purpose of RealChute

L291[17:46:56] <stupid_chris> Which is to reduce parachute parts required to a minimum

L292[17:47:23] <Althego> why?

L293[17:47:31] <Althego> because they are unrealistic? or too heavy on the cpu?

L294[17:47:41] <stupid_chris> Because that makes no sense realistically

L295[17:47:53] <stupid_chris> Ever seen a spacecraft spam like 30 chutes?

L296[17:48:03] <Althego> yes

L297[17:48:14] <stupid_chris> Like?

L298[17:48:15] <Althego> that is not even that many

L299[17:48:20] <Althego> i mean in ksp

L300[17:48:29] <raptop> Well, granted, realism would involve a tweakable for parachute size

L301[17:48:33] <stupid_chris> I did specify *realistically*

L302[17:48:34] <Althego> real ones probably no more than 4 mains

L303[17:48:44] <stupid_chris> raptop in other words, RealChute

L304[17:48:51] <raptop> yeah

L305[17:49:21] <stupid_chris> And that's my point, RealChute aims to make it *realistic*. Realism doesn't spam standardly sized parachutes, they custom make them for every craft

L306[17:49:49] <stupid_chris> So it's very unlikely that the deflection algorithm will have to deflect like 30 parachutes

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L308[17:50:43] <stupid_chris> Ngl, a little disappointed that most of the moderation team doesn't use RealChute ;)

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L328[19:40:26] <Solar_Oracle> Betelgeuse have a champaign supernova yet?

L329[19:41:51] <Althego> hehe

L330[19:43:20] <raptop> hm

L331[19:44:29] <Solar_Oracle> Watch out for the bubbly radiation.

L332[19:48:49] <Althego> i dont know about that. but i remember the wobbley sidekick from tyrian. (yes, the output was wobbley radiation forward)

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L335[20:07:23] <Solar_Oracle> https://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/2106/Ganymede_JunoGill_2217.jpg

L336[20:07:46] <Althego> not bad for a public outreach instrument :)

L337[20:08:59] <raptop> Making the voyagers look bad?

L338[20:09:47] * Solar_Oracle sobs in Galileo.

L339[20:10:46] <raptop> high gain antenna, what's that?

L340[20:11:01] <Althego> hehe

L341[20:11:27] <Althego> didnt galileo used some magnetic tape for storage?

L342[20:11:41] <Solar_Oracle> Yeah, but that was common in that era.

L343[20:12:03] <Althego> space tech and magnetic tape. especially at jupiter. sounds strange to me

L344[20:12:04] <Solar_Oracle> They had troubles with it properly cycling, and there were times in which data was lost.

L345[20:12:30] <Solar_Oracle> Well, it'd probably be more more resilient than solid state memory.

L346[20:14:33] <Solar_Oracle> That Galileo was able to send as much data as it did is something of a miracle, and NASA had to significantly improve its deep space comm network to facilitate greater downlink with the probe than what was thought possible at the time.

L347[20:15:26] <raptop> Vaguely looking through some galleries of Galileo images, there's lots of Io and Europa, not much Callisto, and even less Ganymede

L348[20:18:34] <Solar_Oracle> I think that's explicitly mentioned in some of the histories. It's not like they had an abundance of bandwidth for photos, too!

L349[20:18:42] <Solar_Oracle> Good book on the subject with TONS of technical information https://history.nasa.gov/sp4231.pdf

L350[20:19:05] <raptop> nice

L351[20:20:07] <Solar_Oracle> It even details particular flybys and their objectives.

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L354[20:26:23] <Solar_Oracle> More dimming of our favorite red giant star.

L355[20:26:46] <Althego> looks like some kind of activity to me

L356[20:27:05] <raptop> tempted to kick the star and see what happens, given the connection weirdness

L357[20:27:13] <raptop> unless, like betelgeuse is having wifi problems?

L358[20:27:16] <Althego> heh i never saw the new solar panels unroll

L359[20:27:41] <Althego> on the iss

L360[20:27:49] <Solar_Oracle> Huh, there's a Xibalba in Elite Dangerous. Wonder if I'll find a tree floating in space there.

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L363[20:30:43] <Althego> what did the intel people think when they came up with the name "rambo cache"

L364[20:31:52] * raptop assumes that they're designing a memory system for COIN operations, especially in jungle environments

L365[20:32:06] * raptop pokes betelgeuse with a cat-3 cable

L366[20:32:31] <Althego> could have named it tango cache, dunnier :)

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L369[20:34:56] *** betelgeuse was kicked by raptop (not a real ban, you can rejoin once you notice/fix your connection issues))

L370[20:36:46] <Solar_Oracle> It's gonna blow, get to the storm shelters!

L371[20:37:27] * raptop ducks behind a petal of xeelee structural material and plans to surf away

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L376[20:43:33] <Solar_Oracle> Surfing a supernova shockwave is pretty metal.

L377[20:44:50] <darsie> Solar_Oracle: Are you referring to elements beyond helium?

L378[20:46:27] <raptop> That feels unintentional but appropriate

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L385[20:58:23] <Solar_Oracle> The only thing that could improve this is actually playing some death metal while your board starts descending down the periodic table from the impact.

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L422[22:54:28] <raptop> Note to self: make sure to unban him in a few hours

L423[22:55:47] <kbuck> I guess that's what happens when you say "betelgeuse joined the channel" 100 times

L424[22:56:16] <raptop> yeah

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L427[23:15:28] <darsie> I'm an idiot. I found the Minmus ion experiment again, saved, and launched again ... without accepting the contract.

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L430[23:19:13] <darsie> Hmm, OTOH, I can accept the contract later.

L431[23:19:41] <darsie> It's not like a satellite that has to be built after accepting the controct. Idiot!

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L433[23:23:41] <TwistenX> Should I make a Starship-esque or a Shuttle-like rocket

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L435[23:25:35] <raptop> X-33 inspired VTHL

L436[23:25:37] <raptop> ...

L437[23:25:47] <raptop> oh, come on

L438[23:26:51] ⇨ Joins: TwistenX (webchat@c-24-16-251-13.hsd1.wa.comcast.net)

L439[23:27:46] <TwistenX> matt lowne is beating elon musk

L440[23:28:37] <raptop> consider: X-33 inspired VTHL

L441[23:28:46] <TwistenX> what is that

L442[23:29:00] <raptop> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_X-33

L443[23:29:40] <TwistenX> what kind of a x-wing lookin' thing is this

L444[23:30:52] <TwistenX> it looks weird as freak my dude

L445[23:32:03] <TwistenX> I FOUND A CLASS-F ASTEROID

L446[23:32:26] <TwistenX> Actually, it's a comet apparently

L447[23:34:12] <TwistenX> So I can confirm, Class-F and Class-G exists in Stock KSP

L448[23:35:17] <raptop> nice

L449[23:35:38] <TwistenX> Doesn't Class-H exist as well?

L450[23:37:36] <darsie> IIRC I have a class I comet.

L451[23:38:38] <TwistenX> So, the current KNOWN classes are Classes A-J. Class J's are captured asteroids. (Gilly, Bop, and Pol.)

L452[23:39:40] * darsie finished the Surface Deployed Ion Collector contract: https://i.postimg.cc/ZJ8tgxzS/screenshot542.png

L453[23:40:47] <TwistenX> Nice! Do you plan on returning to Kerbin or are you gonna strand Bob on Minmus?

L454[23:42:34] <darsie> Bob will stay on Minmus with the lab. The lab could fly him and Graeming (the other 2* scientist) back home. My 2* Engineer Cristiano, who set up the solar panel, will fly back.

L455[23:44:56] <TwistenX> You could put escape pods just in case, like if you're doing a Space Station and you have impending impact on a craft without fuel or an asteroid

L456[23:45:53] <darsie> TwistenX: https://i.postimg.cc/FhVFc4R3/screenshot543.png

L457[23:46:25] <darsie> Kerbals could just go on EVA.

L458[23:46:56] <TwistenX> yes but how would they get back to Kerbin

L459[23:47:11] <darsie> Jetpack or rescue mission.

L460[23:47:31] <TwistenX> well, yeah

L461[23:48:52] <darsie> Class I comet: https://i.postimg.cc/XVVvQ7Jd/screenshot484.png

L462[23:49:52] <darsie> TwistenX: Have you tried https://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Jetpack_deorbit ?

L463[23:50:24] <TwistenX> no because i do probed missions usually