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L6[02:44:27] <flayer> i'm not going to
rendezvous with my 'solar orbit station' until its encounter with
kerbin lol
L7[02:45:26] <flayer> wait, i might add
another module before then
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L10[02:46:20] <Althego> nice landing. and
explosion too
L11[02:46:35] <Althego> they had to delay
it well after midnight so i couldnt see it live
L12[02:47:35] <Althego> reminds me of a
legendary and memed to this day news title, what i could translate
as: they survived, but died anyway
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L16[02:56:22] <Neal> sn10 landed... but
exploded?
L17[02:58:15] <Althego> yes, minutes after
landing
L18[03:04:36] <raptop> Yep!
L19[03:05:13] <raptop> Apparently SpaceX
can do both a successfull landing *and* a RUD
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L21[03:16:16] <Izaya> Gotta free up space
in the warehouse somehow.
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L25[04:05:03] <Althego> hehe shark jumping
on bed
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L50[08:07:35] <Althego> stream on
L51[08:23:57] <Althego> 1 minute
L52[08:26:41] <Althego> live easy to render
darkness :)
L53[08:33:15] <Althego> landing
L54[08:33:36] <Althego> it was on top of
the ship
L55[08:33:40] <Althego> but loss of
signal
L56[08:34:12] <Althego> supposedly landed
but no visual
L57[08:34:19] <Althego> the second 8th tiem
booster
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L60[08:54:05] <Deddly> That Starship
flight/flip/flop/landing/flight again/fireball was truly
spectacular
L61[08:55:06] <Mat2ch> they really did
it
L62[08:55:09] <Mat2ch> this is crazy
stuff
L63[08:55:51] <Mat2ch> and as I expected
ALL engines lit this time and no flame out on any of them :D
L64[08:56:04] <Althego> hehe
L65[08:56:43] <Mat2ch> but was a hard
landing it seems
L66[08:56:45] <Mat2ch> but they landed
it!
L67[08:57:04] <Althego> it was descending
so slowly
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L69[09:16:35] <Mat2ch> Careful!
L70[09:16:53] <Mat2ch> Btw: Did SpaceX say
why the last booster crashed?
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L72[09:18:48] <Althego> not yet
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L75[09:29:38] <Mat2ch> Althego: well,
stolen, but funny: First Starship that flew twice.
L76[09:29:39] <Mat2ch> :D
L77[09:32:18] <Althego> yes with record
reflight time of 5 minutes
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L81[09:53:20] <sheeep> hellooo
L82[09:53:23] <Mod9000> Hello, sheeep
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L85[09:58:09] <Mat2ch> hello sheeep
L86[09:58:39] <sheeep> hey Mat2ch
L87[09:59:12] <Deddly> Alrighty there
L88[10:00:25] <Deddly> <Mat2ch> Btw:
Did SpaceX say why the last booster crashed? <--- It was an
engine out on the way up, close to MECO. It happened to be one of
the three they needed for the landing burn and it wouldn't
relight
L89[10:00:55] <Deddly> re-entry/landing
burn*
L90[10:02:21] <Deddly> <Althego> it
was descending so slowly <-- it's apparently an illusion due to
it's size. Compare the landing speed with the takeoff speed and you
can see that the landing was quite a bit faster than I imagine they
had planned for.
L91[10:02:55] <Deddly> What I want to know
is: what was the yellow plume from one of the engines on the way
up?
L92[10:03:29] <Althego> ah Mat2ch asked
about the booster. i even linked a clip where somebody from spacex
explained it
L93[10:03:59] <Althego> i thought he asked
about the starship
L94[10:04:04] <Deddly> Ah
L95[10:04:43] <Althego> but the link was
yesterday
L96[10:05:05] <Deddly> I find it
interesting that was enough propellant left in Starship to generate
such a large explosion.
L98[10:15:38] <Mat2ch> wait, the internal
software is not designed in a way that it chooses a different set
of engines for landing if one of the primary ones for landing
failed at ascend?
L99[10:15:49] <Mat2ch> That would be one of
the first things I'd add to the software...
L100[10:16:23] <Mat2ch> if ( engine[n] ==
State::Failed ) continue;
L101[10:16:25] <Mat2ch> ;P
L102[10:16:47] <Mat2ch> and I would have a
second sequence for landing when the center engine fails
L103[10:17:13] <Mat2ch> theoretically it
should be possible to land on two engines as well
L104[10:17:40] <Mat2ch> it's just about
being flexible here...
L105[10:29:27] <packbart> being more
flexible means more testing, more certification, more ways to go
wrong
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L107[10:29:53] <packbart> only unwritten
code does not have bugs
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L109[10:31:38] <Mat2ch> true, but you can
write code in a way that it is clear when it is called.
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L111[10:31:52] <Mat2ch> And it is easy to
certify it then.
L112[10:32:24] <Mat2ch> Because this would
be code that is only executed in case of a landing burn there is no
change in the code for the ascend.
L113[10:33:07] <packbart> well, an
argument could be made that if your engines are that unreliable
that this code is necessary, maybe improve the engines
instead
L114[10:35:06] <packbart> don't know they
could upload / switch to different code manually after launch
L115[10:35:10] <packbart> +if
L116[10:39:07] <packbart> granted, it
would be possible to use different logic builds changing with
age
L117[10:40:07] <packbart> the old booster
runs on the more flexible code while the fresh one hauling the
expensive cargo is protected from that undetected bug in it that
would lead to firing all or none of the engines at once
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L119[10:46:54] <Althego> based on the
explanation, not the whole engine was faulty, but one specific part
because of old age
L120[10:47:09] <Althego> that could be
solved by some regular maintenance
L121[10:47:14] <Althego> or even just
checkups
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L125[11:09:27] <Althego> i think tomorrow
we are going to break our top new daily cases number
L126[11:14:27] <Deddly> Mat2ch, only three
of the Falcon 9's engines can be re-lit in flight
L127[11:14:45] <Althego> ah so they are
missing the hardware
L128[11:14:55] <Deddly> They have special
plumbing and starting systems.
L129[11:15:00] <Althego> for t he
ttab
L130[11:15:29] <Althego> that would add
significant complexity and weight
L131[11:15:44] <Deddly> Yup, so if one of
those engines goes, the only "backup" is to attempt
re-entry with two engines, but they aren't likely to have the fuel
reserves for that
L132[11:16:03] <Althego> but again, if it
was the center engine could have tried landing with 2, then it is
significantly harder, with less margin, but possible
L133[11:16:34] <Deddly> Still need three
engines for re-entry
L134[11:16:53] <Deddly> 3 engines or extra
fuel for a longer burn on 2
L135[11:17:25] <Althego> ah yes that is 3,
which means with too low twr the fuel loss would be
significant
L136[11:17:51] <Deddly> But I would
imagine the landing would be possible on 2 engines, yeah. They
tried a triple-engine landing once, didn't they? One that
failed?
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L138[11:19:49] <Mat2ch> Deddly: oh, well,
I thought they all could be relit
L139[11:20:16] <Mat2ch> and I think they
still do tripple engine landings for the high speed returns
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L141[11:21:24] <Althego> so anyway,
whatever the engine boot is, i guess they are going to check them
better
L142[11:22:13] <Mat2ch> no more
holes!
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L144[11:36:57] <Althego> well here it is.
everything closes
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L152[12:51:16] <Deddly> Hey Fluburtur,
made any fun flying machines lately?
L153[12:52:02] <Deddly> Fluburtur, did you
see that Peter Sripol made a plane powered by a server fan?
L154[13:21:34] <darsie> I did.
L155[13:24:38] <umaxtu> a delta fan?
L156[13:54:47] <Althego> i saw some video
with a guy in a garage (?) trying to fly a plane with a pc
fan
L157[13:58:57] <darsie> that. He also did
it outside eventually.
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L162[15:15:13] <JVFoxy> so.. I didn't
expect SN10 go boom. the video I saw cut short after landing.. eh..
I had noticed it was leaning slight, maybe hit too hard?
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L164[15:15:52] <Deddly> It did seem to hit
hard, yeah. I'm more interested in the yellow exhaust on the way up
from one engine
L165[15:17:01] <Deddly> JVFoxy, it seemed
to explode in the same manner as pressure vessels when they are
overpressurised to destruction. My guess is it lost some structural
integrity from the heavy landing
L166[15:17:05] <JVFoxy> didn't catch that
part. Then again, seeing it lift off no problems, had been routine
now
L167[15:17:29] <JVFoxy> Maybe fire got up
inside, warmed the tank too much?
L168[15:18:38] <Deddly> It would have
vented a lot of it was getting too much pressure
L169[15:18:44] <Deddly> if*
L170[15:19:22] <JVFoxy> perhaps.. have to
wait and see
L171[15:20:15] <Deddly> I'm just stoked
that they stuck the landing. I want to see an orbital return
L172[15:21:57] <JVFoxy> wasn't quite clear
on how long between sticking the landing and boom.. one said it was
a few minutes later?
L173[15:22:52] <flayer> yeah, a minute or
two at least
L174[15:23:08] <flayer> i think if they
had actual landing legs: no boom
L175[15:24:03] <JVFoxy> struts did have
crush zones but I think they were pretty limited
L176[15:33:34] <umaxtu> it looked like
they might've been leaking methane before the landing?
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L178[15:43:15] <Deddly> 9 minutes if I
recall
L179[15:43:50] <Deddly> Ah, 8
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L183[16:18:39] <Deddly> If a Starship
fully loaded (100 t) has 6.9 km of Dv, how much would it have
empty?
L184[16:19:12] <flayer> 0
L185[16:19:25] <Althego> hehe
L186[16:19:44] <Althego> how did you get
these numbers?
L187[16:19:47] <Deddly> I'm wondering
whether it would have the DV to be a SSTO, which would be useless
for operational use, but great for testing re-entry
L188[16:20:00] <Althego> isnt its empty
weight something like 120t?
L189[16:20:16] <Althego> supposedly
without payloat it could just barely go into orbit
L190[16:20:26] <Deddly> Elon Tweeted the
numbers
L192[16:24:47] <Althego> so the payload is
100t. impressive numbers
L193[16:27:58] <Althego> it seems to be
around correct
L194[16:28:09] <Althego> !calc
380*9.81*ln(1200/220)
L195[16:28:09] <Kerbot> Althego =>
~6324.02366111378121876241
L196[16:28:12] <Althego> oh wait
L197[16:28:18] <Althego> !calc
380*9.81*ln(1440/220)
L198[16:28:18] <Kerbot> Althego =>
~7003.68196053028527434804
L199[16:28:36] <Althego> so if they hit
their design numbers
L200[16:28:53] <Althego> and also have
enough time to refill it completely
L201[16:29:19] <Althego> i would change
this around, launch a starship in advance, fill it to the top, then
send an other one with the passenger
L202[16:29:21] <Althego> s
L203[16:29:27] <Althego> and transfer them
in orbit
L204[16:29:34] <Althego> dont make them
wait for days in orbit
L205[16:30:09] <flayer> yeah,
definitely
L206[16:30:23] <flayer> you basically
always want a refueling rocket ready in orbit
L207[16:30:26] <flayer> imo
L208[16:30:38] <flayer> like, just build a
ridiculously large platform
L209[16:30:39] <Althego> you need 6
L210[16:30:54] <flayer> at least 6 orange
tanks
L211[16:31:11] <umaxtu> or make a fueling
station in orbit
L212[16:31:29] <flayer> yeah, that's what
i'm saying
L213[16:32:00] <flayer> there can be a
gift shop and such
L214[16:32:06] <flayer> grocery
store
L215[16:32:11] <Althego> strangely enough
there is one other company trying to do refueling stations
L216[16:32:23] <Althego> i dont rememebr
if it was blue origin or ula
L217[16:32:57] <Althego> but spacex doesnt
want redueling stations
L218[16:33:08] <Althego> however many of
their plans change
L219[16:33:19] <Althego> so this can
change too
L220[16:33:41] <Deddly> A refuelling
station would be cool, but it would also involve an additional step
in the refuelling process
L221[16:33:58] <Deddly> First refuel the
station, then refuel the ship
L222[16:34:14] <Althego> you can refuel
that over time
L223[16:34:25] <Althego> and it has
cooling so less evaporation
L224[16:34:34] <Althego> then just dock
one, and be done with redueling
L225[16:34:41] <Althego> once
L226[16:34:46] <Althego> refueling
L227[16:35:40] <Deddly> I suppose it does
make some sense because even if they're sending masses of craft
like they want to, they still have to wait around for a launch
window
L228[16:36:02] <Althego> so what if there
is an issue? weather for example
L229[16:36:20] <Althego> the orbital depot
is a buffer eliminating a lot of problems
L230[16:36:41] <umaxtu> might need more
then one though, depending on the destination
L231[16:36:41] <Althego> or maybe launch
all 6 refueling ships at the same time?
L232[16:36:43] <Deddly> So actually, a
huge refuelling platform would spread out the necessary launches
over two years instead of having to do them all at the same
time
L233[16:37:28] <Deddly> But then you have
to have the refuelling platform
L234[16:38:07] <flayer> it'd be much more
than a refueling station
L235[16:38:11] <flayer> it'd be a staging
area
L236[16:38:24] <Deddly> So instead of
designing and building such a massive structure, they could have a
bunch of refuelling stations that are just full Starships
L237[16:38:33] <flayer> but that's just a
lot more infrastructure to build
L238[16:38:41] <Althego> no, because
starships wouldnt have the cooling
L239[16:39:04] <Deddly> Well, they could
make some with cooling
L240[16:39:07] <Althego> ok, the depot is
not free. have to be designed and put into orbit
L241[16:39:13] <flayer> at first the
process of "launch a fuel tank" + "launch the
starship" will suffice
L242[16:39:30] <flayer> but the refueling
platform/staging area is an inevitability, pretty much
L243[16:39:42] <Deddly> Just have a
variant of Starship that serves as the fuelling station
L244[16:40:03] <flayer> "Oh, on the
70th launch we noticed something wrong with the rocket after
getting into space"
L245[16:40:20] <flayer> "No worries,
the engineers on the orbital platform will take care of
it"
L246[16:40:33] <flayer> "Oh, they
need food, but that's fine, there's a grocery store
there."
L247[16:40:55] <Deddly> Launch one
Starship "station" variant, then fill it with subsequent
launches. Finally, when it's close to the launch window, launch the
Mars variant with crew on-board, dock with the full one, and off
you go.
L248[16:41:30] <Althego> where do you put
the radiators?
L249[16:41:38] <Althego> are t hey folding
out from the cargo bay?
L250[16:42:08] <Deddly> Yeah. All the
necessary cooling systems are in the cargo bay
L251[16:42:27] <Althego> you have to fold
them out to work
L252[16:42:31] <Althego> look at the
iss
L253[16:42:40] <Deddly> Starship does have
its own cooling, by the way. It has to keep that fuel cold all the
way to Mars
L254[16:43:01] <Althego> according to
elon, not really
L255[16:43:31] <Althego> some will
evaporate and they are going to live with that
L256[16:43:42] <Deddly> Anyway, if it has
fold-out solar panels like in the renders, there's no reason it
can't have radiators too
L257[16:43:45] <Althego> steel is also not
exactly the best insulator :)
L258[16:44:35] <Althego> the original
renders with the solar panels were something like 2 iterations ago
and showing it at some gas giant, i dont remember if it was jupiter
or saturn
L259[16:44:39] <Althego> not much use
there
L260[16:45:17] <Deddly> But as for a
staging platform, it would be quite interesting to see how they
could do that. I imagine they could have a huge station just made
of a mass 6 of Starships all docked to a small central hub.
L261[16:45:18] <Althego> you can go to
mars on solar panels, jupiter, barely if you are a tiny probe with
no life support, just need to wake up occasionally
L262[16:45:39] <Althego> you need one
starship only
L263[16:45:45] <Althego> for storage
L264[16:46:00] <Althego> you need 6 to
launch because most of the fuel is burnt while getting into
orbit
L265[16:46:22] <Althego> but you dont need
more than one for a refueling
L266[16:46:39] <Althego> if it is full
already
L267[16:46:41] <Deddly> Yeah you only need
one, but for flayer's idea of a staging platform capable of repairs
and such, you could have up to six docked to a small piece of
hardware = big station
L268[16:47:03] <Althego> rotating ring
station?
L269[16:47:36] <Deddly> Well no, because
it can only dock on the engine side
L270[16:47:47] <flayer> i only really see
such a staging platform be built once there is regular traffic to
and from mars
L271[16:48:01] <Althego> then why is one
nose without the tip?
L272[16:48:08] <Althego> maybe some
docking port is going to be there?
L273[16:48:21] <flayer> i wouldn't place
too much value on artwork
L274[16:48:36] <Deddly> I haven't seen a
nose without the tip
L275[16:48:55] *
flayer mutters something about jews
L276[16:49:01] <Althego> lol
L278[16:49:52] <Deddly> What,
flayer?
L279[16:50:13] <Althego> joke about
missing tip
L280[16:50:33] <Althego> anyway, sn15 has
a different nose
L281[16:50:45] <Althego> and sn12-14 were
scrapped
L282[16:51:58] <Althego> maybe have two
modes for docking? one for fuel other for people? or maybe docking
the nose to the engine section?
L283[16:52:06] <Althego> or it is
completely different
L284[16:52:12] <Althego> they also
promised windows
L285[16:52:14] <Deddly> OK, best to avoid
that kind of joke in this channel, flayer
L286[16:53:05] <Althego> dragon originally
had 4 windows, we are down to 2
L287[16:53:19] <Althego> so even starship
might have a few small windows instead of that big section
L288[16:53:58] <Deddly> most likely. Each
window is a potential point of failure
L289[16:54:45] <Althego> i guess they
would be laminated glass
L290[16:55:03] <Althego> probably heavier
than steel
L291[16:55:20] <Althego> but who knows,
what is on dragon? just plastics?
L292[16:56:36] <Deddly> I know a
boatbuilder who never, ever built any holes for pumping out liquids
(e.g. toilet contents) below the water line. He said that, although
it's common have such things and it's trivial to seal them, they
can and do fail, and very many boats sink because of water getting
in through such a point in the hull. I imagine similar thinking
should apply on a spaceship
L293[16:57:04] <Deddly> A window is just a
whole in the hull, sealed with something transparent
L294[16:57:39] <Deddly> hole*
L295[16:57:47] <flayer> like a
ghost?!
L296[16:58:08] <Althego> build the ship
from transparent material
L297[16:58:12] <Althego> like aluminium
oxide
L298[16:58:34] <Deddly> Transparent
aluminium :)
L299[16:58:50] <Althego> yes, it is
that
L300[16:59:18] <Deddly> Brought to us by
Montgomery Scott
L302[17:00:03] <Althego> not exactly
cheap
L303[17:00:10] <Althego> but strong and
transparent
L304[17:01:04] <Deddly> Most of the time
there won't be much of a view anyway. You'll want some windows, but
surely don't need all that many
L305[17:01:48] <Althego> elon said there
will be absolutely huge windows. i doubt that. because of
aforementioned reasons
L306[17:02:19] <Deddly> I mean, the view
of the stars will be spectacular, so you'll want windows, but
surely don't need that many for an enjoyable experience
L307[17:02:47] <Deddly> You just need
enough windows so that people can float up to one whenever they
want without congestion.
L308[17:02:50] <Althego> but they made the
rocket pointy, just for a joke, even though its aero performance is
a bit worse
L309[17:03:09] <Deddly> lol
L311[17:04:55] <Deddly> I was wondering if
that was the reason
L312[17:05:38] <Althego> i guess the aero
is not that important, just what 2 minutes on the way up
L313[17:06:32] <Deddly> Might affect it a
little on the way down, though
L314[17:06:40] <Althego> it flies
sideways
L315[17:06:48] <Althego> so probably not
that much
L316[17:06:57] <Althego> in fact the more
drag it has the better
L317[17:07:10] <Deddly> Not much, no. But
the CoP will change just a bit
L318[17:10:15] <Althego> what i am really
hoping for, the route of choice to mars would be with a flyby of
venus. supposedly it takes less delta v and is also faster
L319[17:10:27] <Althego> and you get to
enjoy the clouds of venuys
L320[17:17:39] <raptop> The Venus flyby
just opens up another launch window. Overall mission time is not
meaningfully shorter, though time on the surface of Mars is
(IIRC)
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L326[17:55:07] <Althego> btw rip headphone
users
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L328[17:55:35] <Mat2ch> "Cleanup on
isle 10"
L329[17:55:37] <Mat2ch> :D
L330[17:55:43] <Althego> 10-4
L331[17:56:06] <Tsar-bomba> Hi
L332[17:56:08] <Mod9000> Hello,
Tsar-bomba
L333[17:56:33] <Althego> what's up
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L335[17:57:23] <Althego> at least there
was no explosion
L336[18:01:18] <Althego> and there is the
scott video
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L338[18:05:32] <Althego> so the legs didnt
deploy correctly, contributing to the hard landing
L339[18:14:45] <Mat2ch> ah, yeah, it was
sitting directly on the ground
L340[18:15:04] <Mat2ch> oh and that might
have caused the explosion. They vented downwards but there was
nothing to vent to
L341[18:15:19] <Mat2ch> so the fuel got
stuck and ignited
L342[18:15:24] <Mat2ch> fun fun!
L343[18:15:38] <Mat2ch> I'd like to submit
an idea to SpaceX about the landing legs. I think they can be
better
L344[18:15:44] <Mat2ch> but they have no
Discord like Martin has :D
L345[18:15:51] <Althego> i thougth it was
too low, the flaps almost touched the gorund
L346[18:16:03] <Althego> but couldnt see
it directly because of the clouds
L347[18:16:05] <Althego> around the
bottom
L348[18:16:37] <Althego> they know they
need better legs. especially for landing on rough terrain
L349[18:16:52] <Althego> i dont know where
they could fit them
L350[18:17:03] <Althego> very small space
in the skirt especially with all 6 engines
L351[18:21:57] <Althego> hehe kiara
watches hardware unboxed too
L352[18:25:27] <umaxtu> kiara?
L353[18:25:38] <Althego> never mind,
random noise
L354[18:37:03] <Mat2ch> I just realized
that SN10 really turned at 4:20 and it might have been
intentional...
L355[18:37:14] <raptop> Given all the
firey deaths, are you saying that kiara is a starship
prototype?
L356[18:38:03] <Althego> hehe no, i just
found it entertaining that she watches at least one channel i
do
L357[18:38:39] <Althego> i didnt find what
the starship windows are made of
L358[18:38:44] <Althego> er, dragon
windows
L359[18:40:33] <Mat2ch> in Scotts video
you can clearly see one of the legs dangleing around...
L360[18:40:52] <Althego> yes, i didnt
catch that live
L362[18:41:00] <Althego> just the result
that it was sitting on the ground
L363[18:41:20] <Mat2ch> yep
L364[18:41:29] <Althego>
"live"
L365[18:41:38] <Althego> i mean as i was
watching the stream
L366[18:41:45] <Althego> because of course
it happened around midnight
L367[18:41:53] <Althego> so i watched it
in the morning. more liek dawn
L368[18:42:35] <Althego> Mat2ch: what do
you think of the clock escapement
L369[18:43:12]
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L370[18:43:46] <Mat2ch> feature creep. But
a good one! ;)
L371[18:51:27] <Althego> tomorrow there is
going to be another spacewalk for the preparaion of the solar panel
upgrade
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L381[19:48:59] ***
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L383[19:50:41] <sheeep> Hey
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L395[20:31:36] <sheeep> Jeb is back form
Mun... yay
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L401[22:21:02] <raptop> ;mission add You
frog-blast the vent core.
L402[22:21:02] <LunchBot> raptop: Added
mission: You frog-blast the vent core.
L403[22:43:08] <packbart> !mission
L404[22:43:09] <LunchBot> packbart: You
upgrade your spacecraft control to be entirely keyboard-based. Your
rocket wobbles itself into pieces.
L405[22:45:21] <raptop> oops
L406[22:53:46] <FLHerne> raptop:
frog-blast?
L407[22:54:55] <raptop> Something the fake
BoBs say in Marathon
L408[22:55:11] <raptop> (The ones made by
the aliens, and will explode violently if killed or if they get too
close to you)
L409[22:55:33] *
FLHerne gives up on comprehending
L410[22:55:40] <FLHerne> ;mission
L411[22:55:40] <LunchBot> FLHerne: You
launch an epic mission destined to bring the Magic Boulder back to
Kerbin. A whale falls out of the sky and flattens Kerbvier's School
for Gifted Youngsters.
L412[22:58:41] <raptop> FLHerne: old
Bungie FPS with a lot of weird/silly elements
L413[23:12:58] ⇦
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