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L1[00:01:45] ⇨
Joins: Lyneira
(Lyneira!~konversat@2001:984:484e:1:f0b6:4983:3462:3cbf)
L2[00:52:48] ⇨
Joins: Deaders
(Deaders!webchat@host81-154-84-166.range81-154.btcentralplus.com)
L3[00:56:40] ⇨
Joins: NicknameHere
(NicknameHere!uid148430@id-148430.stonehaven.irccloud.com)
L4[01:10:26] <Deaders> Hello everyone, have
a little question. Has anyone else had issues with rather
significant input lag on joysticks to the custom axis's?
L5[01:13:18] <Deaders> Im getting, at a
guess about 200ms input lag on my joysticks. Its not a huge problem
for hinges and things, but considerable when trying to use it in
atmospheric flight.
L6[01:27:03] <Deaders> I have looked over
the forum, found the vJoy / UJR suggestion. That doesnt work, vJoy
just doesnt even install correctly. So looking for other solutions
if anyone has any :)
L7[01:30:43] <Althego> i havent heard of
anything like this. but cant say i use joystick too much, it doesnt
help much for the fine movements because of how it is handled by
the game
L8[01:39:45] ⇦
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L9[01:40:44] <Deaders> Yeah, Id mainly like
it for atmo flight. I prefer using keyboard for rocket / rcs
control.
L10[01:41:30] <Deaders> And I use a
throttle for to set thrust limits for many things, so its easy to
quickly scale back all my engines for fine tuned adjustments.
L11[01:41:50] ⇨
Joins: drak (drak!~drak@209.141.54.24)
L12[02:08:25] ⇨
Joins: JVFoxy (JVFoxy!webchat@night-stand.ca)
L13[02:15:51] ⇨
Joins: Blu3wolf (Blu3wolf!~blue@123.51.8.6)
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L15[02:46:10] <packbart> tbh, I use the
xbox clonetroller mostly for camera control. It has some weird
deadzone in stick center, so no small adjustments possible
L16[02:46:30] <packbart> that's probably
configurable but I haven't figured out how, yet
L17[02:46:41] ⇨
Joins: sandbox
(sandbox!~sandbox@host-92-4-22-60.as43234.net)
L18[02:46:51] <Althego> same for
joystick
L19[02:47:05] <Althego> so much so that
taniwha created his own joystick driver for the game
L20[02:47:45] <packbart> I haven't noticed
any significant input lag, thoug. I use the "Advanced
Fly-By-Wire" mod
L21[02:48:26] <packbart> unless I start KSP
via Steam - that overrides the config with its own,
apparently
L22[02:53:52] <JVFoxy> I've considered
using dual shock type controller on the PC for the game..
L23[03:04:23] <taniwha> Advanced
Fly-By-Wire was the motivation for me to write my own
L24[03:04:40] <taniwha> I liked AFBW for
the most part, but had some minor issues with it
L25[03:05:06] <taniwha> only real problem
with mine is it's currently Linux-only
L26[03:09:32] <Althego> successful
summoning, gained +10 xp
L27[03:09:45] <taniwha> hehe
L28[03:11:02] <JVFoxy> eh.. sleep summons
me, sorry..
L29[03:13:46] ⇦
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L30[03:15:14] ⇦
Quits: nj0rd (nj0rd!~nj0rd@mx01.private-mail-for.me) (Quit: WeeChat
2.8)
L31[03:18:54] <bEagle> i made it, i made a
semi-realistic venture star with aerospikes and a lifting body
setup
L32[03:19:09] <Althego> pic
L33[03:19:40] <bEagle> yeah, just a
sec
L36[03:20:48] <Althego> ah it is as fat as
the original
L37[03:20:50] <bEagle> its twr is about .5
at sea level so it actually needs to take off from the runway
L38[03:20:58] <bEagle> yup :D proud of
it
L39[03:21:20] <Althego> based on the delta
v it is orbital capable
L40[03:21:21] <Althego> nice job
L41[03:21:38] <bEagle> it is indeed with
~800 m/s extra
L42[03:21:52] ⇨
Joins: nj0rd (nj0rd!~nj0rd@mx01.private-mail-for.me)
L43[03:25:41] <Blu3wolf> Taniwha: you have
a controller mod like AFBW? Does it do actual FBW? The fact that
AFBW doesnt have anything to do with real FBW is my biggest gripe
with the mod...
L44[03:26:07] <taniwha> no, nor does it
claim to
L45[03:26:25] <taniwha> it does, however,
have differential braking :)
L46[03:26:42] <Blu3wolf> oh cool - whats it
called?
L47[03:26:53] ⇨
Joins: Maddog59
(Maddog59!webchat@173-26-216-217.client.mchsi.com)
L48[03:27:03] <taniwha> also, because I
wrote the AxisGroup stuff for KSP 1.8, I made sure I could hook
into it cleaning so my mod supports that too
L49[03:27:10] <taniwha> Advanced
Input
L50[03:27:17] <taniwha> but as I said,
Linux-only :(
L51[03:27:36] <Althego> differential
braking, now that would have been useful many times
L52[03:27:38] <Blu3wolf> eh, as it happens
Im on Manjaro these days :)
L53[03:27:39] <taniwha> (but only because I
don't know how to add support for windows or mac, help
wanted)
L54[03:28:02] <Blu3wolf> (linux distro via
Arch)
L55[03:28:07] ⇦
Quits: Raidernick (Raidernick!~Raidernic@68.195.230.186) (Read
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L56[03:28:15] <taniwha> oh, right...
biggest reason I had to drop AFBW: my joysticks crash unity
L57[03:28:34] <taniwha> (when unity tries
to access them)
L58[03:28:42] <Blu3wolf> What joysticks?
seems wierd
L59[03:29:04] <taniwha> my x52 (too many
buttons) and thrustmaster t16000 + throttle
L60[03:29:16] <taniwha> comma in the name
somewhere for the TM
L61[03:29:23] ⇨
Joins: Raidernick
(Raidernick!~Raidernic@68.195.230.186)
L62[03:29:24] <taniwha> bug in SDL?
L63[03:29:32] <Blu3wolf> x52 is not blessed
with terribly many buttons in the first place, 28 plus POV... and
unity doesnt like that?
L64[03:29:41] <taniwha> anyway, my code
reads /dev/input/events directly
L65[03:29:53] <taniwha> and I had to remove
permission from js*
L66[03:30:01] ⇦
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L67[03:30:08] <taniwha> unity does not like
more than 20
L68[03:30:21] ⇨
Joins: darsie
(darsie!~kvirc@84-114-73-160.cable.dynamic.surfer.at)
L69[03:30:22] <taniwha> I'd get random
crashes when using the blue thumb button on the throttle
L70[03:30:31] <Blu3wolf> huh. That seems
really short sighted. And your Advanced Input mod gets around
that?
L71[03:30:34] <taniwha> took me forever to
figure it out
L72[03:31:04] <taniwha> yeah:
/dev/input/event (which unity does not use) and /dev/input/js
disabled (removed perms, I think)
L73[03:31:37] <taniwha> hmm, no, looks like
I disabled js for my TM
L74[03:31:44] <taniwha> (ie, device not
created)
L75[03:31:52] <Blu3wolf> Im about 9 months
into linux, havent really looked at unity for anything in that
time
L76[03:32:05] <darsie> Can two Kerbals
crash so hard with each other so they die?
L77[03:32:20] <taniwha> note I"m
talking about unity3d not the ubuntu unity
L78[03:32:23] <Mat2ch> .oO( but but but
Unity is such a great game engine. Until you wanna do something
serious. *ducksandhides* ;)
L79[03:32:24] <darsie> s/with/against
L80[03:32:46] <taniwha> Blu3wolf: anyway,
that's how I got around it
L81[03:33:19] <taniwha> ie, unity (and thus
ksp) never sees my stick
L82[03:33:23] <Mat2ch> I really really hope
KSP2 will not run on Unity, but Unreal 5. :P
L83[03:33:42] <Blu3wolf> I do have unity
installed but havent really touched it. Played with a couple of the
tutorials and stopped. Was cool artwork for the RPG tutorial
L84[03:33:46] <Mat2ch> and all the
calculations are done directly on the hardware...
L85[03:33:51] <taniwha> also, while not
released, I recently fixed a bug in my handler that would lose the
last motion on the throttle
L86[03:36:42] <Blu3wolf> so how much work
was that to go from events to KSP input?
L87[03:36:59] <Blu3wolf> Just trying to
gauge how much of an endeavor it would have been
L88[03:37:24] <taniwha> hard to say,
really. I started writing the input code for quakeforge back in
2011
L89[03:37:40] <Blu3wolf> Im currently
converting an old TM joystick over to an arduino, but that will
just use someone elses framework (LUFA) and really the code is
already done by others
L90[03:37:52] <taniwha> got the basics of
that going without too much hasle, but it was spread over a couple
of years
L91[03:38:16] <taniwha> (all in C)
L92[03:38:36] <taniwha> took a week or two
to get the C-C# bindings working
L93[03:38:49] <Blu3wolf> this is all C,
too... not my language of choice. Really glad I havent had to do
much at all on this one.
L94[03:38:56] <taniwha> then sunno, again
spread out over a while to get all the fun stuff working
L95[03:39:00] <Mat2ch> taniwha: couldn't
this all be also done by using the RPC mod?
L96[03:39:45] <taniwha> remote procedure
call?
L98[03:40:19] <Blu3wolf> yup, thats what it
stands for
L99[03:40:34] <Mat2ch> I'm just
wondering
L100[03:40:39] <Blu3wolf> "control
KSP from scripts running outside the game" - sounds like
it
L101[03:40:47] <taniwha> probably, not
sure, but I suspect it wasn't written then
L102[03:41:07] <Mat2ch> because if I ever
had the luck of having some spare money and then being able to
build a cockpit-like thing, I'd use that for all the buttons and
inputs
L103[03:41:52] <Blu3wolf> first commit Feb
11, 2014
L104[03:41:52] <taniwha> but anyway, I
wanted to learn how to do C bindings in C#
L105[03:42:07] <taniwha> for advanced
input?
L106[03:42:31] <taniwha> nope, something
else
L107[03:42:33] <Blu3wolf> Mat2ch: building
a cockpit can be done fairly cheap :) Im currently making switch
panels for my sim
L108[03:42:40] <Blu3wolf> taniwha: for
kRPC
L109[03:42:41] <taniwha> oh, KRPC
L110[03:43:07] <taniwha> maybe I didn't
know of it
L111[03:43:11] <taniwha> dunno
L112[03:45:03] <taniwha> anyway, the
bindings went ok, it was just a few fun issues with paths
L113[03:46:11] <taniwha> one thing I like
about my input lib (and thus the mod): hot plug support
L114[03:46:27] <taniwha> don't have to
restart KSP if you forget to plug in your devices beforehand
L115[03:46:31]
⇨ Joins: maddog59
(maddog59!webchat@173-26-216-217.client.mchsi.com)
L116[03:54:28] <Mat2ch> Blu3wolf: if you
have the tools, the workshop and the space to put everything when
it's done. You may now bet, what I'm missing :D
L117[03:55:03] <Mat2ch> taniwha: that's
even Eurotruck Sim missing...
L118[03:56:20] <Blu3wolf> Indeed... tools
and workshop can be a barrier. Im fortunate in that regard.
Unfortunately no room for a full cockpit, unless I want to leave it
in the workshop when its done!
L119[04:01:00] <maddog59> KSP newbie here
- hopefully a quick question about spacewalks: I can get out, I can
maneuver using WASD/L-Shft/Ctrl, and I can set a target so I see
the markers on the NavBall. But getting back to the target from any
distance, when there's drift, is a problem: it seems to require
that I be constantly adjusting my camera and hitting 'space' to get
K
L120[04:01:00] <maddog59> erbal to be
pointing in the right direction to thrust. I feel like I'm missing
something. I thought that 'locked' view would do it for me, but I'm
not seeing it as an option as I toggle thru the camera settings: I
see "Orbital", Chase", and "Free".
L121[04:01:45] <maddog59> Am I missing
something basic?
L122[04:01:54] <taniwha> for kerbals, you
really want Orbital or Free
L123[04:01:59] <taniwha> (though Auto is
usually ok)
L124[04:02:38] <taniwha> about the only
thing you're missing is understanding that that's just the way
things are
L125[04:02:46] <taniwha> ie, there will be
drift
L126[04:02:52] <taniwha> and you will need
to adjust
L127[04:03:15] <taniwha> also, just get
used to not always directly facing your target
L128[04:03:17] <taniwha> it takes a
while
L129[04:03:39] <taniwha> oh, hang on
L130[04:03:42] <Blu3wolf> Bigger the
distance, bigger the scale of the orbital differences... the closer
you are, the closer the physics will approximate simple
non-gravitation behavior
L131[04:03:44] <taniwha> if you keep
having to hit space
L132[04:03:50] <taniwha> hit T (turn on
SAS)
L133[04:04:09] <taniwha> that will do the
auto-turn of the kerbal so you don't have to keep hitting
space
L134[04:04:40] <taniwha> sorry, so used to
EVAing that way I didn't click to what the actual problem was
L135[04:04:48] <taniwha> maddog59: I hope
that helps
L136[04:04:50] <maddog59> In the tutorials
I saw that as an option for docking, but I'm not getting the
target/anti-target buttons on the left of the NavBall .
L137[04:04:51] <Mat2ch> maddog59: EVA is
hard for the first few walks, but you have to focus mostly on the
navball. Also only care for a single axis at a time. So if you're
moving away and up, first stop the away motion, then the up.
L138[04:05:23] <taniwha> maddog59: I think
most people don't know about kerbal SAS
L139[04:05:47] <taniwha> including tut
creators
L140[04:05:49] <maddog59> Oh, I've been
relying on SAS since day 1! :-)
L141[04:06:15] <taniwha> ie, they don't
realize why kerbals default to having it on and that turning it off
has meaning
L142[04:06:52] <maddog59> Is there
something I need to upgrade to get the various SAS buttons? I have
the prograde and retrograde buttons, but that's it.
L143[04:07:08] <taniwha> kerbal
skill
L144[04:07:37] <maddog59> You're talking
XP, right?
L145[04:07:47] <taniwha> level 2 gets you
a few more (normal/radial)
L146[04:07:49] <taniwha> yeah
L147[04:07:58] <taniwha> level 3 gets you
target and node
L148[04:09:55] <maddog59> welp, as a
newbie, that's gonna be a long way off ... :-) My thanks to you for
the quick responses and tips!
L149[04:10:42] <maddog59> What I meant
was, my thanks to ALL of you for your tips and responses!
L150[04:11:02] ⇦
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L151[04:11:13] <taniwha> btw, if you want
to *really* get the feel for space, check out TINU (there is no
up)
L152[04:11:40] <taniwha> camera mod I did
that frees up camera roll and removes the pitch lock
L153[04:12:01] <taniwha> does make EVA
kerbals a little harder though, I need to work on that
L154[04:12:38] <Blu3wolf> that sounds
really helpful
L155[04:13:00] <Mat2ch> maddog is gone
already :(
L156[04:13:02] <Blu3wolf> given the recent
delays to KSP2, Ive been reconsidering my plan of 'no KSP until
KSP2'
L157[04:13:36] <Mat2ch> My usual thing on
EVA is: Get the camera locked in the back of the Kerbal, stop all
motion, rotate the cam where I wanna go, hit space, go there
L158[04:13:55] <Mat2ch> and yes, the first
time doing an EVA can be very stressful :D
L159[04:14:17] <Mat2ch> seeing your little
Kerbal slowly drifting away from the safe space of the craft
L160[04:14:23] <Mat2ch> having no idea
what to do
L161[04:14:31] <Blu3wolf> step one: dont
panic
L162[04:14:34] <Mat2ch> I'm doing this to
my friends *g*
L163[04:14:37] <Mat2ch> they all panic
:D
L164[04:14:45] <Blu3wolf> step two: panic
once you realise you dont know where your towel is
L165[04:15:00] <taniwha> I suspect
"no ksp until ksp2" = "no ksp ever again"
L166[04:15:15] <Mat2ch> you think it's
that bad?
L167[04:15:18] <Blu3wolf> Ive expressed
this view to some friends, but really hope Im wrong :/
L168[04:15:20] <taniwha> yes
L169[04:15:24] <Mat2ch> :(
L170[04:15:29] <Althego> future of ksp is
not too bright at the moment
L171[04:15:33] <taniwha> and yeah, I'd
like to be wrong
L172[04:15:38] <Mat2ch> I have spare time,
I could hop on as project manager :P
L173[04:15:48] <Althego> there was some
dev blog a few days ago
L174[04:15:51] <Blu3wolf> I mean Ive been
pretty pessimistic since the sale - Take Two do not have a good
rep
L175[04:16:21] <Blu3wolf> the EULA laying
claim to all creative work you do, ever, wasnt a great first
step
L176[04:16:31] <Mat2ch> the main problam
was, that they wanted to do an iteration of KSP. But we have a good
working KSP already. So it needs a reinvention
L177[04:17:04] <Blu3wolf> unilaterally
changing the rules for everyone, without consultation or
permission, was not a good one either.
L178[04:17:10] <Mat2ch> Blu3wolf: funny
stuff, that EULA isn't legal in many many other countries ;)
L179[04:17:28] <Blu3wolf> Its not
enforceable basically anywhere, but it shows how they operate is
the point
L180[04:17:39] <Mat2ch> it's and old
mindset
L181[04:18:20] <Mat2ch> grabbing on to
things, patenting everything, even if it's just a grain of dust...
old business mindset
L182[04:18:27] <taniwha> Blu3wolf: many of
us modders simply gave the EULA (and T2) the finger: GPL ftw
:)
L183[04:18:54] <Mat2ch> KSP would have
never gone off like this, if there hadn't been the modders
L184[04:18:56] <Blu3wolf> My stuff (no KSP
mods sorry) is all GPL
L185[04:19:07] <Althego> these people dont
understand that modding can keep a game alive forever
L186[04:19:19] <Althego> ta is around 25
years old and still going
L187[04:19:28] <taniwha> I've done a
couple of LGPL, but the only stuff I do that isn't is
inherited
L188[04:19:34] <Blu3wolf> the main sim I
fly has had over 20 years of development at this point
L189[04:19:44] <Mat2ch> Usually modders
see the real potential. That's why you have to be open minded about
mods. Yes, the software is your baby, but like with all kids, you
have to let it go
L190[04:20:03] <Blu3wolf> most of that,
community modders
L191[04:20:11] <Mat2ch> Falcon 4?
L192[04:20:15] <Blu3wolf> yup!
L193[04:20:27] <Mat2ch> I have the CD
somewhere...
L194[04:20:38] <Mat2ch> but I lend the
handbook a friend and never got it back :(
L195[04:20:41] <Blu3wolf> BMS still going
strong, should download it and install Falcon
L196[04:21:00] <Blu3wolf> the manual,
great though it was, is totally outdated - there is better
documentation available now
L197[04:21:20] <Mat2ch> It's about having
the original box, not the handbook ;)
L198[04:21:49] <Blu3wolf> Shame Falcon was
never GPL or similar
L199[04:21:58] <Mat2ch> tbh with all the
free and semi-free game engines out there you could do everything
open source by now
L201[04:22:51] <Mat2ch> I found this a few
days ago
L202[04:23:08] <Mat2ch> we're talking
about running around and flying The Orville. A fan project
L203[04:23:21] <Mat2ch> it's insane what's
possible today in your spare time
L204[05:11:13]
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L213[08:10:24] <hatrix> 35 283 247, HG-55
/ RA-15
L214[08:10:27] <hatrix> oops
L215[08:11:24] <hatrix> the RA-15 is not
enough for a solar relay network :(
L216[08:12:28] <hatrix> unless I put like
14 of them
L218[08:34:51] <Althego> hehe
L219[08:35:51]
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L220[08:38:22] <hatrix> I'm not sure how
to calculate the resonance orbit though
L221[08:38:43] <hatrix> I guess I should
use the barycenter of the solar system
L222[08:51:39]
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L224[09:02:30] <kmath> YouTube - Into The
Warp - a KSP Movie
L225[09:02:54] <Althego> saw it yesterday
:)
L226[09:03:09] <hatrix> I was busy
drinking yesterday :p
L227[09:23:06] <hatrix> haha, it's beyond
home right?
L228[09:23:28] <Althego> i dont know
L229[09:23:33] <Althego> but at the end
there is al ist of mods
L230[09:23:36] <hatrix> looks a lot like
Rhode
L231[09:23:49] <hatrix> and there's a
binary system
L232[09:36:45] <hatrix> you can see Lua,
one of Rhode's moons at one point also I think
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L234[09:54:13] *
raptop is imaginging a planet with moons named Lua, Kotlin,
Eyedeell, etc
L235[09:54:36] <Althego> haskell
L236[09:54:56] <Althego> rust
L237[09:55:08] <hatrix> there's Ash
also
L238[09:55:10] <Althego> wait, isnt rust
and rast in ksp2?
L239[09:57:25] <raptop> I think it was
rast and rusk?
L240[09:57:39] <raptop> But yeah,
something like that
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L244[10:11:33] <Althego> rask and
rusk
L246[10:13:53] <packbart> "[I] help
every engineer [...] become better versions of themselves" -
they're cloning engineers? :)
L247[10:14:15] <Althego> hehe
L248[10:17:58] <packbart> "we’ll be
calculating the gravitational pull of multiple bodies on our Kerbal
vessels" - ooh, that's new
L249[10:18:18] <Althego> but only in
special circumstance
L250[10:18:20] <Althego> s
L251[10:18:24] <raptop> Principia!
L252[10:18:26] <Althego> no
L253[10:18:52] <raptop> Also, will they be
doing the normal Euler, or something slightly fancier like leapfrog
or RK4?
L254[10:18:56] <packbart> yeah, not
"full-system n-body"
L255[10:19:01] <packbart> it's a start
:)
L256[10:19:06] <Althego> why wouldnt they
use rk4?
L257[10:19:49] <Mat2ch> rk4?
L258[10:19:52] <raptop> Unsure, but
considering that it's optional in Universe Sandbox, I can imagine
them missing
L259[10:20:16] <raptop> Mat2ch: 4th order
(well, 4 step) runge-kutta method of numeric integration
L260[10:20:21] <Mat2ch> ah
L261[10:20:40] <Althego> realitvely easy
to implement for quit4e good precision
L262[10:21:02] <Althego> also you would
need more computations for the same precision with simpler
methods
L263[10:21:41] <Althego> arent there
specialized methods for planetary motion?
L264[10:21:59] <raptop> There are
L265[10:22:15] <raptop> I guess I could
ask egg for a list of citations
L267[10:23:28] <Althego> hehe
L268[10:23:35] <Althego> there are a few
it seems
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L273[11:27:31] <Shoe> help
L274[11:27:50] <Shoe> how do i make the
docking port snap to the center of the command module
L275[11:27:57] <Shoe> i forgot the
controls
L276[11:28:08] <Althego> c?
L277[11:28:13] <Alanonzander> hold down
the alt key (windows)
L278[11:28:42] <Althego> normally it snaps
there on its own
L279[11:28:54] *
Alanonzander is assuming during construction iin the
VAB
L280[11:28:56] <Althego> i only use alt
when there are overlapping things, then it helps somewhat
L281[11:29:30] <Shoe> alt helped,
thanks!
L282[11:32:59] <Shoe> why is the shielded
docking port slightly bigger than the command module top
L283[11:33:02] <Shoe> that's so
annoying
L284[11:36:01] <raptop> It should more or
less match up with the Mk1-3 top?
L285[11:36:33] <Althego> but you can sink
it in a bit to make it match better
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L298[15:21:57] ***
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