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L22[03:57:48] <Mat2ch> so, the raptor engine got removed from SN4 and it looks like they are about to install the test thrust thingy again
L23[03:58:19] <Mat2ch> which would make sense. They did two static fire tests, now they can crank up the pressure and see if the test did any damage
L24[03:58:38] <Mat2ch> and they can inspect the raptor engine to see if there was any damage or excessive wear to it
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L53[10:14:12] <FtForger> Hello, I need some help with where/how to find/fix a problem I've got with a spaceplane. Every time I go to launch it, as soon as it touches the runway, it starts to spin. I've downloaded another spaceplane from KerbalX to see if it was a generalized problem, and it isn't.
L54[10:15:22] <Althego> so after you click the launch button, it is placed on the runway, and starts to spin along which axis?
L55[10:16:20] <FtForger> it spins horizontally, not quite like it was connected to the ground by the front landing gear and the ass end is moving sideways.
L56[10:16:57] <Althego> is it jumping, or just rotating?
L57[10:17:25] <FtForger> when I say not quite...I'm just talking positionally. it is actually just a little behind the landing gear, and it is just rotating.
L58[10:18:06] <Althego> i havent seen things like this, except with a joystick not in use and an object pressing against it
L59[10:18:50] <FtForger> I don't have a joystick at all
L60[10:19:09] <FtForger> and I've checked the keyboard for stuck keys
L61[10:19:14] <Althego> can be something with the wheels
L62[10:19:19] <Althego> that is why i asked if it is jumping
L63[10:19:23] <FtForger> and I've checked the keyboard for stuck keys
L64[10:19:28] <FtForger> oops :)
L65[10:20:15] <FtForger> The wheels do seem to be shaking, but I think that is just normal flexing due to the friction with the ground as they are dragged sideways
L66[10:20:45] <FtForger> it is a very small skae and mostly side to side
L67[10:20:55] <FtForger> skae/shake
L68[10:21:17] <FtForger> Should I try adding a second set of rear gear?
L69[10:22:26] <Mat2ch> FtForger: can you post an image of the craft?
L70[10:23:33] <FtForger> Not sure how...
L71[10:23:50] <FtForger> I know how to grab a pic, just not how to post it
L72[10:24:16] <FtForger> You want it in the SPH or on the runway? (when I get it figured out)
L73[10:24:53] <packbart> imgur.com is a common way of posting images if you don't have your own webspace thingy
L74[10:25:18] <Althego> what is with the news of tom cruise going to the iss for some onsite filming
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L76[10:29:01] <packbart> Internation Space Scientology
L77[10:29:11] <Althego> hehehe
L78[10:37:58] <Mat2ch> hrhr
L79[10:38:38] <Mat2ch> Althego: let me spin this. Probably on the Boeing capsule to make the movie and some advertisment for Boeing. ;)
L80[10:39:11] <Mat2ch> FtForger: yeah, go for imgur
L81[10:39:54] <Mat2ch> and a pic of the craft in the SPH could be fine, but you can just upload more pictures to one post, so on the runway could be helpful, too
L82[10:43:24] <FtForger> https://i.imgur.com/jfvkESX.png
L83[10:44:28] <Althego> are the main landing gears on the wing?
L84[10:45:31] <Althego> because it can be, that the jumping of the springs and the flexing of the wings together produces a slight rotation
L85[10:45:52] <Althego> and of course this creates energy, but not uncommon in ksp
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L87[10:48:03] <FtForger> Yes, they are on the wings. I'll try moving them to the fuse.
L88[10:48:47] <Althego> one trick i use, that i put them on the body but use the offset tool to move them on the wings, so they are on the body for the physics, but visually on the wings
L89[10:50:22] <FtForger> Yep, that did the trick. Thanks. Been playing for a while but this was my first attempt at a sp...
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L91[10:53:28] <Mat2ch> good catch
L92[10:53:35] <Mat2ch> I thought the same when I clicked on the image
L93[10:53:42] <Mat2ch> struts could help
L94[10:54:50] <Althego> hehe. "basically all these bad guys from this evil company known as amaz... protogen"
L95[10:55:48] <Mat2ch> also I would like to have flex _in_ the wings and not at the joints.
L96[10:56:05] <Mat2ch> Usually the joints are the most stable parts of everything...
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L98[10:57:20] <Althego> in reality wings are not glued on. they are part of the internal structure of the plane, so quite strong. as you said they flex, but because they are long, not because there is a joint there
L99[10:58:53] <Mat2ch> well, we need a more CAD like approach to build things ;)
L100[10:59:47] <Althego> the lego approach is generally working ok, but for wings or solid boosters, not really. procedural boosters, tanks, wings would be the way to go
L101[11:04:09] <raptop> "In reality wings are not glued on" Well, not aluminum ones. Composites, however...
L102[11:05:59] <Mat2ch> do you want some raisins to your peas to pick? ;)
L103[11:06:15] * raptop holds up a pendant of pedantry
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L105[11:37:16] <darsie> "Conduct gravimetric surveys of Kerbin: Record gravitational forces in spaceflight above 67,900 meters near Sector R7CS"
L106[11:37:23] <darsie> Spaceflight in the atmosphere?
L107[11:37:57] <darsie> Or does that require >70 km?
L108[11:46:17] <flayer> above in spaceflight
L109[11:46:19] <raptop> I'm not sure what happens between 67900 and 70000 m for that contract
L110[11:46:27] <flayer> nothing
L111[11:46:37] <flayer> cause you're not in spaceflight
L112[11:46:46] <raptop> "flying high" yeah, makes sense
L113[11:46:53] <raptop> technically a bug in the contract I guess
L114[11:46:58] <flayer> no
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L117[11:49:39] *** Ezriilc_ is now known as Ezriilc
L118[11:52:33] <Althego> not a bug, just not something a human would create
L119[11:55:46] <raptop> This is not a case where computers should be more human
L120[11:59:40] * darsie flew to space with a Flea: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot253.png
L121[12:02:04] <Althego> now try it with decouplers :)
L122[12:04:43] <darsie> 75.5 km
L123[12:05:00] <darsie> :)
L124[12:26:48] <darsie> 76.9 km at TWR 6.
L125[12:35:45] <darsie> 87 km with decoupler :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot255.png
L126[12:36:01] <Althego> i meant with decouplers only, without engine
L127[12:36:09] <darsie> yeah :)
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L129[12:36:26] <darsie> still, I decoupled the okto at launch from the bottom of the rocket.
L130[12:40:47] <Althego> scott
L131[12:59:15] <hatrix> what a monstrosity https://i.imgur.com/GQlQYqY.png
L132[12:59:26] <Althego> average
L133[13:03:28] <packbart> it even has nose cones on most boosters ;)
L134[13:03:42] <hatrix> I knew someone would complain :D
L135[13:04:18] <packbart> :) I could wax about struts, too
L136[13:04:32] <hatrix> where we're going we don't need struts
L137[13:05:30] <packbart> it maybe superstition, too. I like to put struts from the boosters to the main noodle
L138[13:05:49] <hatrix> heaviest part does the trick usually
L139[13:05:55] <packbart> so it doesn't flex much in the engine plates or similar
L140[13:06:00] <darsie> That might have been my 'largest' ship: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot256.png
L141[13:06:39] <darsie> 1 kt
L142[13:06:40] <hatrix> oh sexy
L143[13:06:42] <darsie> :)
L144[13:06:52] <darsie> orbital fuel depot.
L145[13:06:53] <hatrix> the TWR isn't that bad also
L146[13:07:02] <packbart> fuel is our payload
L147[13:07:12] <hatrix> the rocket I'm sending is an orbital fuel/base for Laythe
L148[13:07:18] <Althego> stull not too big by ksp standards
L149[13:07:20] <hatrix> I've got 2 SSTO there and a miner on the ground
L150[13:07:39] <hatrix> But I forgot to add docking ports on the sides of the SSTO so I got no idea how I'll refill those
L151[13:08:19] <packbart> klaw them
L152[13:08:30] <hatrix> you can transfer fuel with claws?
L153[13:08:33] <packbart> yes
L154[13:08:37] <hatrix> :o
L155[13:08:53] <darsie> Punch a hole, fill, close with a cork :).
L156[13:09:02] <Althego> hehe
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L158[13:11:06] <packbart> Althego: "too big by ksp standards" starts at 1000 parts?
L159[13:11:27] <Althego> i meant its height
L160[13:11:34] <Althego> it didnt even reach the ceiling
L161[13:11:44] <Althego> and you can build above that
L162[13:11:57] <darsie> There's only a central mammoth and the boosters.
L163[13:12:48] <packbart> I tried to launch a fuel station in one go: https://formularfetischisten.de/~packbart/temp/kspts2.jpg
L164[13:13:04] <packbart> didn't work out (yet. I might return to that design later)
L165[13:13:22] <Althego> hehe those solids in the center
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L167[13:14:32] <packbart> had to stage the radial decouplers or the boosters would slam into each other and into the fuel tanks
L168[13:15:16] <packbart> It doesn't fly well, though :)
L169[13:15:48] <hatrix> wow
L170[13:16:13] <hatrix> what mods are those ?
L171[13:17:13] <packbart> https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/170211-19x-stockalike-station-parts-redux-april-3rd-2020/
L172[13:17:48] <packbart> (and https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/162790-19x-hangar-extender-extended/ to remove the VAB walls)
L173[13:18:58] <hatrix> I like the parts thing
L174[13:19:22] <Althego> lol. longplane is long
L175[13:19:46] <hatrix> I definitely need a new computer though
L176[13:20:01] <Althego> amd 4000 seriese is around the corner
L177[13:20:26] <hatrix> anything newer than my 9 year old CG will do, really
L178[13:23:07] <packbart> *sigh* if only I hadn't ordered that eSATA cable I didn't really need, I could already be playing KSP on my new toy. still have to wait until sometime next week
L179[13:24:02] <packbart> replacing my 10 year old laptop GPU with a 2080. from 72 cores to 3072 :)
L180[13:24:36] <Althego> helps somewhat, but typically the problem with huge ships in ksp is the physics
L181[13:25:03] <Althego> since the shader change i can hear fans spinning, before that the fans didnt even spin up
L182[13:25:09] <Althego> on the gpu
L183[13:25:32] <Althego> and i cant really hear the cpu fans anyway
L184[13:25:41] <packbart> aye. still, the new desktop thingy with Ryzen and stuff should be more shiny than the old laptop I use now
L185[13:26:24] <packbart> I want to be able to set the graphics knobs to 11 again! ;)
L186[13:30:21] <hatrix> I'm not up to date, a nice computer would be around 1k?
L187[13:32:14] <packbart> I'd say that depends on the currency and how long you expect to use it. I haven't bought any new thing in about 10 years and spent 2k€ on a Ryzen 5, 32GB RAM and a 2080 "super"
L188[13:32:32] <packbart> I hope it will be up-to-date enough for the next 10 years or so ;)
L189[13:32:46] <hatrix> ok maybe I should do the same then
L190[13:33:36] <packbart> oh, that 2k include 360€ for a 27" LED-IPS display
L191[13:33:48] <Althego> hehe 10 years? lol no
L192[13:33:57] <packbart> something x1440 WQHD
L193[13:34:01] <packbart> Althego: I can dream!
L194[13:34:09] <hatrix> my CPU is 11 years!
L195[13:34:13] <hatrix> and KSP still runs
L196[13:34:23] <Althego> if we are lucky this 10 years is going to be as fast paced as it was last... hmm let's se, maybe in the 90s?
L197[13:34:33] <packbart> I expect to be able to make good use of the 2080 and the display for some years, maybe replace the R5 with an R7 later on
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L199[13:39:19] <raptop> To be fair, that CPU is only 2 years older than KSP
L200[13:40:26] <packbart> in any case, the reasoning was to buy the "best" GPU I can afford now. new CPUs get cheaper faster than GPUs while games tend to rely on the newest and greatest GPU features for the "full" experience
L201[13:41:12] <Althego> i cant imagine elon being serious about the 100 people to mars in starship
L202[13:41:33] <Althego> impossible to fit there 100 people in a livable area, not to mention all the food, for 6 months
L203[13:41:45] <Althego> or rather for years
L204[13:42:43] <packbart> took the RyanSpace flight to Mars, landed on Deimos
L205[13:42:50] <Althego> hehehe
L206[13:43:21] <Mat2ch> Althego: well, maybe this is all just a test and the real starship will come afterwards?
L207[13:43:31] <Althego> at least you dont get the united airlines treatment, where they beat you and then throw you out
L208[13:43:59] <Althego> which would really need to be a bfr
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L211[14:32:20] <darsie> Althego: "Payload to anywhere > 100,000 kg" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceX_Starship 100 ppl = 10 t, so naively 10 t dry food per person.
L212[14:32:47] <Mat2ch> and all water gets recycled
L213[14:35:17] <Althego> 100 t payload, so even if yo udont count the person it is 1t
L214[14:35:33] <Althego> but life support is extra weight
L215[14:35:52] <Althego> also volume is an issue too
L216[14:35:55] <darsie> oops, yeah, 0.9 t food per person.
L217[14:36:51] <darsie> I made up some chemical recycling equations which somehow turned CO2 and H2O to O2 and methane or so, the latter being used as fuel.
L218[14:37:02] <Althego> actually mass wise, if it can really take 100 t, it doesnt sound bad
L219[14:39:04] <packbart> it's easier with Kerbals. https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/blob/master/GameData/KerbalismConfig/Profiles/Default.cfg#L97
L220[14:44:50] <darsie> Very rough estimate is 15 m3/person in starship, or about a 2.5 m cube.
L221[14:45:47] <Althego> supposedly they would need around 25
L222[14:46:02] <darsie> 25 m3/person?
L223[14:46:06] <Althego> yes
L224[14:46:12] <darsie> Why?
L225[14:46:13] <Althego> i could live in such a cube
L226[14:46:16] <Althego> if there is a computer :)
L227[14:46:35] <packbart> ugh, that laaag ;)
L228[14:46:43] <Althego> because they go crazy in the small space
L229[14:46:50] <darsie> Perhaps you'd get an ISS size quarter and some shared living/social space.
L230[14:47:03] <Althego> half a year is a long time, i could play through all the games i couldnt :)
L231[14:47:05] <darsie> ISS personal cabin quarter.
L232[14:50:04] <Mat2ch> you could bring some bigolow expandable habitats with you and have more space that way ;P
L233[14:50:20] <Althego> nobody talked about that
L234[14:50:24] <Althego> at least not yet
L235[14:50:54] <Althego> if you want to build a base you need some cargo for building that anyway. you might as well start by expanding the ship during the travel
L236[14:54:53] <darsie> That's my fuel making scheme en route. CH2O is carbohydrate.
L237[14:54:53] <darsie> CH2O + O2 --> CO2 + H2O
L238[14:54:53] <darsie> 4 H2O --> 4 H2 + 2 O2
L239[14:54:53] <darsie> CO2 + 4 H2 --> CH4 + 2 H2O
L240[14:54:53] <darsie> CH2O + H2O --> CH4 + O2 (total)
L241[14:56:50] <darsie> So we carry food and water and it turns to methane and LOX fuel en route.
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L260[16:17:29] <darsie> Yay, a fairing masses more than adapter+nosecone, but it has less drag and can nicely fit some payload and get to space with the flea, too :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot258.png
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L262[16:22:51] <darsie> I can even omit the fins, cause the fairing stabilises.
L263[16:27:20] <darsie> 77.7 km with okto, thermometer, battery and antenna: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot259.png
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L280[19:55:58] <JVFoxy> humm... so geo sat in orbit... wondering what next
L281[19:59:32] <Alanonzander> Science!
L282[20:02:38] <JVFoxy> well, eventually mun orbit mission.. leave a relay there too. 4 of those little pop up dish things seem to be loosing some signal between sites.
L283[20:02:55] <JVFoxy> I guess I could upgrade to the slightly larger static relay dish..
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L298[23:12:29] <Althego> the pressure is on. or rather will be soon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXQmRLFj888
L299[23:12:29] <kmath> YouTube - Starship SN4 Cryo Proof Test LIVE From Boca Chica
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