L26[07:36:56] <Rokker> Fluburtur: https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/TRiwvbT7/Screenshot_20191108-083149_Chrome.jpg

L27[07:37:59] <Althego> lol

L28[07:48:47] <Mat2ch> Ah, good ol Canada ;P

L29[07:49:51] <Althego> luckily i dont need to go there anymore

L32[08:10:14] <Mat2ch> Well, I heard the Moon is nice and mostly empty of people...

L33[08:10:52] <Althego> then i choose the atacama desert, at least there is air and an onservatory there :)

L34[08:17:31] <UmbralRaptop> *an*?

L35[08:18:19] <UmbralRaptop> Cerro Tololo, La Silla, Las Campanas, Paranal,…

L37[08:20:07] <darsie> I wonder how much water you could extract from desert air per J.

L38[08:20:26] <Althego> not much in the atacama

L39[08:20:53] <darsie> So with much energy you'd get some.

L40[08:21:14] <darsie> Prolly more than on Mars.

L41[08:21:33] <Althego> not really. you need to keep the surface cool. whatever happens. but there is very little water vapor in the air there, so you cant extract what is not there to begin with

L42[08:21:45] <Althego> on the mars you could jusg dig up water from the soil

L43[08:21:53] <darsie> Very little is something.

L44[08:22:06] <darsie> Just use more solar panels to get more.

L45[08:23:18] <darsie> There's a paper about how much energy/power you need to extract water from Mars' atmosphere.

L46[08:23:30] <darsie> I forgot the number.

L47[08:23:38] <darsie> They used zeolithes.

L48[08:27:04] <UmbralRaptop> Landing somewhat

L49[08:27:06] <UmbralRaptop> rt

L51[08:27:40] <UmbralRaptop> Landing somewhere with (sub)surface ice seems easier

L55[08:38:06] <darsie> The results of the simulations show varied performance with significant specific energy amounts for the water collected at VL-1 and VL2, and more reasonable performance at New Houston and the North Pole. At VL-1 production was lowest with an average of 3.8 kg/sol produced with the highest specific energy of 55 kW-hr/kg. Viking Lander 2 had similar results with an average of 4.3 kg/sol produced and a specific energy of 53 kW-hr/kg.

L56[08:38:06] <darsie> New Houston, with its increased concentration, had more favorable production with an average of 14 kg/sol and a reduced specific energy of 17 kW-hr/kg. Finally, at the North Pole, with a concentration during summer of nearly 10 times that of Viking Lander 1, average daily production was 25.8 kg/sol at the best overall specific energy of 10.5 kW-hr/kg.

L57[08:38:23] <darsie> http://www.marspapers.org/paper/MAR98062.pdf

L58[08:39:46] <UmbralRaptop> hm

L59[08:40:39] <darsie> Absorption with zeolites and heating with microwaves.

L60[08:44:25] <darsie> Works everywhere, don't need to dig, robust.

L61[08:44:48] <Althego> you just need to scoop the ice at the poles

L62[08:44:54] <Althego> ok, most of it is co2, but still

L63[08:45:06] <darsie> No, most is H2O, IIRC.

L64[08:45:17] <darsie> yeah

L65[08:46:04] <darsie> Sublimating polar CO2 would double atmospheric pressure, IIRC. So 170*2 kg/m2.

L66[08:46:35] <darsie> Polar water could cover Mars 11 m=11,000 kg/m2.

L67[08:46:41] <Althego> and that is wht you shouldnt believe everything elon tweets. no point in nuking the poles on mars, there is not enough co2 remaining to warm up the plamnet

L68[08:47:14] <darsie> There might be enough F to make enough SF6.

L69[08:50:43] <darsie> The potential for mining fluorine-containing minerals to obtain the raw material necessary for the production of CFCs and PFCs is supported by mineralogical surveys of Mars that estimate the elemental presence of fluorine in the bulk composition of Mars at 32 ppm by mass (as compared to 19.4 ppm for the Earth).[17] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraforming_of_Mars#Use_of_fluorine_compounds

L70[08:51:24] <Althego> hehe how do they know that, only 33 ppm and they have almost no direct measurements

L71[08:52:51] <Althego> hmm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31HAFceuvb0

L72[08:53:49] <UmbralRaptop> Yeah, there's an event related to it Monday morning here [George Mason University]

L76[09:29:48] <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5P_6huIJm0

L77[09:32:20] <darsie> Encounter with Ultima Thule: The Most Distant Object Humanity Has Ever Explored

L82[10:56:05] <Rokker> UmbralRaptop: ooo look https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/JEBKMrmx/20191108_115544.jpg

L83[10:56:26] <Althego> mirorr?

L84[10:56:42] <darsie> How resource intense is principia?

L85[10:56:45] <Rokker> Althego: the words on the mirror

L86[10:56:54] <Althego> mathematica

L87[10:57:24] <darsie> Compared to stock.

L88[10:58:19] <darsie> 0.5 times stock speed?

L89[10:59:31] <Rokker> ah boring that's the wrong mathematica

L90[10:59:51] <Althego> hehe is there a wrong mathematica? :)

L91[11:03:45] <Rokker> Althego: this is a policy research company

L93[11:06:18] <bees> darsie: depending on number of active vessels/debris/asteroids

L94[11:07:00] <Althego> cant they just precompute the motion of the planets for a few hundred years?

L95[11:07:12] <bees> disable asteroids, kill all debris, try to explore one craft at a time, and you get stock-like speed

L96[11:07:20] <bees> it is not the planets that are problematic, but crafts

L97[11:08:02] <darsie> Do asteroids have gravity?

L98[11:08:05] <Althego> ah yese those are always htere nad need to be computed

L99[11:08:18] <bees> no, but their orbit still needs to be computed against all planets

L100[11:08:43] <darsie> Orbiting an asteroid would be nice.

L101[11:11:35] <bees> stock asteroids are too small to have a gravity field

L102[11:11:43] <bees> solar pressure would be higher, probably

L103[11:12:08] <bees> not gravity field, but possibility of stable orbits, rather

L104[11:14:56] <darsie> Yeah, they're kinda small. 100 m for class E?

L105[11:16:24] <darsie> Still, they're held together by gravity, sorta

L106[11:16:56] <Rokker> mini metro irl https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/RGNPZPe9/20191108_121607.jpg

L107[11:17:14] <Rokker> they have way too many overlapping lines, that efficiency is terrible

L108[11:19:34] <Fluburtur> lel

L109[11:19:50] <Rokker> Fluburtur: did you see my other post

L110[11:19:54] <Rokker> the quebec one

L116[12:56:57] <JVFoxy> so.. guess nothing too exciting in recent times with anyone? Or did we all just loose our mojo/creativity?

L117[12:58:27] <Althego> played through technomancer and lost horizon 1-2 recently

L118[12:58:32] <Althego> trying overload now

L119[12:59:04] <JVFoxy> ah

L121[13:41:53] <Rokker> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/ES4j1K3g/20191108_143627.jpg

L123[13:42:06] <Rokker> JVFoxy: look who I just paid respects to

L134[14:51:08] <Fluburtur> yes

L142[15:28:04] <raptop> Today in good news: the people doing the Great Observatories studies understand that the SLS is in no way guarenteed. While it's the baseline for HabEx, LUVIOR, etc. any actually selected mission will be built with an understanding of New Glenn, Falcon Heavy, Starship, etc.

L143[15:30:06] <Althego> hehe

L144[15:30:21] <Althego> sls is kind of pointless

L145[15:30:25] <Althego> and expensive

L146[15:31:12] <raptop> Well, yes. It's decidedly disapointing that shuttle-derived hardware saves no money or time, though.

L147[15:31:34] <Althego> the shuttle didnt save money either

L148[15:33:17] <darsie> I guess it was a lesson at reusability.

L149[15:33:30] <darsie> We had to start somewhere.

L150[15:34:06] <Althego> yes but dont need to take the same lesson with the same outcome for decades

L151[15:42:05] <raptop> STS ended up discrediting reusability, if anything

L152[15:43:01] <Althego> spacex is now reusing boosters. but how much do they save? there is still some refurbishing

L153[15:43:40] <Fluburtur> I wonder if I should build a trailer for my tank so it can carry some of my stuff to my stand at the maker faire

L154[15:44:01] <Althego> hehe

L155[15:45:18] <raptop> Hard to say how much savings. But having a design that works even if fully expendable, and evolving towards reusability seems to have been a very good idea

L156[15:46:37] <Althego> at least it is not as labor intensive as the shuttle. so even if they save half of the money that is a huge achievement

L157[15:48:49] <raptop> Even the Titan IV was cheaper than STS

L168[16:02:38] <Althego> https://kep.cdn.indexvas.hu/1/0/3030/30301/303010/30301061_3349c55a339708895ef150761368ee99_wm.gif