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L21[04:03:10] <packbart> xcom on sale. Now
I'll see what that's all about :)
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L36[07:06:35] <JVFoxy> oof...
L38[07:06:56] <darsie> Did she died?
L39[07:07:08] <Althego> -d
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L41[07:07:17] <Althego> who died?
L42[07:07:21] <darsie> died died died
died
L43[07:07:25] <JVFoxy> chub-corde flight to
north pole and back... mach 3.25 180 degree turn.. turned out more
like 215 degree turn cuz of how stupid wide it went
L44[07:08:15] <JVFoxy> a bit of fuel to
spare on landing but ugh.. really loves soaking up runway space on
braking
L45[07:09:18] <darsie> Has anyone landed an
airplane on Duna normally?
L46[07:09:22] <Althego> yes
L47[07:09:31] <Althego> since the duna
atmosphere nerf it is quite hard
L48[07:10:11] <Althego> have to try it at
lowest altitudes, and possibly using parachuts to slow down
L49[07:10:29] <darsie> Slow after
touchdown?
L50[07:10:43] <Althego> no, right before
touching down
L51[07:10:57] <Althego> other method would
include some secondary engines pointing down to substitute for lift
as you are slowing down
L52[07:11:07] <Althego> the problem is you
have some lift above 100 m/s
L53[07:11:12] <Althego> but it is
impossible to land with that
L54[07:11:31] <JVFoxy> glider wings
probably wouldn't help huh?
L55[07:12:01] <Althego> actually with the
new robotics you could unfold huge wings
L56[07:12:27] <Althego> or as with older
versions you can just stack a lot of wings
L57[07:12:30] <darsie> I'm after a typical
landing. Just aerodynamic lift.
L58[07:12:55] <Althego> then you have to
slow down in the air and simply fall down from around 1 m
L59[07:12:56] <JVFoxy> not been to duna
myself yet.. chances of finding terrain level enough for
landing/take off though?
L60[07:13:10] <Althego> the low altitude
arease are relatively flat
L61[07:13:22] <Althego> but still bumpy
enough to kill you abouve 50
L62[07:13:55] <JVFoxy> woulda thought lower
gravity be a bit of a bonus.. guess atmos still pretty low to make
it help
L63[07:14:04] <darsie> JVFoxy: The plains
are soft hills.
L64[07:15:23] <JVFoxy> soft is good.. I
just know with some of the planetary modeling they used, tends to
give things a bit of a sudden edge terrain wise
L65[07:15:28] <darsie> I wonder if I could
assemble an airplane in orbit with docks.
L66[07:15:55] <Althego> can be done but not
recommended
L67[07:15:57] <darsie> Don't have
DLC.
L68[07:15:59] <JVFoxy> speaking of planes,
which mod had the auto pilot that locked attitude with the horizon,
not with the universe?
L69[07:16:14] <darsie> mechjeb?
L70[07:16:32] <Althego> pilot
assistant?
L71[07:16:44] <JVFoxy> ah ya.. was probably
pilot assist
L72[07:17:10] <JVFoxy> going mach 3.. plane
tends to like pitching up pretty fast with normal SAS
L73[07:19:44] <darsie> I tried flying
constant altitude with trim and without SAS. I think weight loss
due to using up fuel spoiled it and maybe there was some pitch
cycling, too.
L74[07:20:01] <Althego> phugoid
movement
L75[07:20:06] <darsie> mhm
L77[07:20:41] <darsie> I heard about that
from one plane accident.
L78[07:20:51] <darsie> lost all
hydraulics.
L79[07:21:03] <darsie> due to engine
explosion.
L80[07:21:03] <JVFoxy> huh.. ckan doens't
have pilot assist, but has something called atmosphere
autopilot(flybywire)
L81[07:21:36] <darsie> JVFoxy: MJ can set
attitude, IIRC.
L82[07:21:40] <JVFoxy> ah
L83[07:21:46] <JVFoxy> maybe poke it
later
L84[07:22:01] <Althego> 2 quite famous all
hydraulic accidents come into mind, united airlines 232 and japan
arlines 123
L85[07:22:41] <JVFoxy> just a little
bothered by the fact my phat-corde, most of the fuel is in hte aft
section. I mean it can land ok, just high speed. I tried adding
tanks along the body so I could shift weight around, may have added
too much drag
L86[07:24:05] <JVFoxy> something that isn't
paper thin wings that can hold some fuel, would be a little
nice..
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L91[07:43:49] <JVFoxy> chub-corde... kind
of crazy this thing even makes it up to a little past mach 3 on
just 4 whiplash engines. fueled weight is 90tons, less fuel is
60
L93[07:44:15] <Althego> huge wings
L94[07:44:45] <Althego> and because of the
tiling it is bothersome to assemble a wing like this. for a plane
this size i would have just slapped on the biggest wings
L95[07:46:27] <JVFoxy> Althego the S Wings
from the shuttle?
L96[07:46:36] <Althego> no that is
small
L97[07:46:40] <Althego> the airliner
wing
L98[07:48:30] <JVFoxy> I usually saw those
things more for slower sub-sonic type craft. I would have still
needed to built up around it and probably more of a pain to work
with.
L99[07:49:22] <JVFoxy> I've also found, the
big airline wings tend to be a bit more fragile, snapping off on
landing if not set right
L100[07:49:29] <Althego> i flew around
kerbin with those wings in an hour or so
L101[07:50:45] <JVFoxy> guess.. would have
to depend on the design one goes with. I wasn't trying to replicate
concorde exactly. Just something of an urge to do a fast jet that
was sorta along samelines
L102[07:51:41] <JVFoxy> it'll cruise ok
19-20km up, 1100m/s or so
L103[07:53:38]
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L104[07:54:46] <JVFoxy> one test I did,
fly to north pole, come back fast I could... I probably should have
landed, turned 180, taken off again. Or slowed down or something. A
bit of a pig to get to turn
L105[07:55:16] <JVFoxy> then again, how
many miles radius a turn did the sr-71 had to do for a turn?
L106[07:55:34] <Althego> hehe
L107[07:55:56] <Althego> but probably more
because of aero stress and g forces than the lack of control
L108[07:56:18] <Althego> at least high up
i usually dont have much control authority
L109[07:59:21] <JVFoxy> lack of air higher
up... people brag, higher up, list resistance, fly more efficient.
True, but probably if you just going in a straight line
L110[07:59:33] <JVFoxy> list.. less
oof
L111[08:02:01] <JVFoxy> was just weird for
me, not used to such wide turns up at the pole. I knew, flying by
it, it'll yank your camera around.. I got done going around, KSC at
that point was 90 degrees. got back up to speed, still pulled
camera around, KSC eventually settled down around the 140 heading
or so
L112[08:02:57] <Althego> you could have
just locked the camera to the plane
L113[08:03:01] <Althego> (v)
L114[08:09:25] <JVFoxy> lol.. maybe, given
how much I've been flying up there lately..
L115[08:10:03] <JVFoxy> set view point
somewhere on tail, make like someone's go-pro was mounted
there
L116[08:10:09] <Althego> i usually press v
when i want to press c. otherwise doesnt see much use
L117[08:10:19] <Althego> there is a mod
for that
L118[08:10:44] <Althego> you can see that
in action in many kerbal videos
L119[08:10:55] <Althego> for cinematic
shots
L120[08:13:35] <Eddi|zuHause> what do you
do if hydraulics fail? get someone out there to flap the wings
manually?
L121[08:13:53] <Althego> there is a meme
for this
L122[08:14:06] <Eddi|zuHause> why wouldn't
there be...
L124[08:14:24] <kmath> YouTube - The Last
Starfighter - We Die
L125[08:15:16] <Althego> technically you
can steer with the engines but around impossible to land that
way
L126[08:16:12] <JVFoxy> I've smached wrong
key sometimes too. Caused a failure and had to restart session. Oh
the joys of being a touch typer
L127[08:16:20] <Althego> thrust on both:
go up, thrust on one: go the other direction. you lost speed
control because of this, and no flaps because of loss of
hydraulics
L128[08:17:08] <JVFoxy> trouble is..
engine lag
L129[08:17:14] <Althego> that too
L130[08:17:24] <JVFoxy> just have to
account for it..
L132[08:17:29] <kmath> YouTube - The Last
Starfighter - we die
L133[08:18:02] <Althego> also: what a
small moon
L134[08:18:08] <JVFoxy> actually, as a
result of that accident and a few other cases, they did develope a
system that helps control engines in the event of some control
failures though
L135[08:18:14] <Althego> yes
L136[08:18:17] <Althego> and it is
potional
L137[08:18:22] <Althego> so basically no
aircraft has it
L138[08:19:00] <JVFoxy> its.. what?
L139[08:19:14] <Eddi|zuHause> a potion.
you drink it.
L140[08:19:16] <Althego> no regulation for
it, and probably costs extra
L141[08:19:20] <Althego> optional
L142[08:20:13] <JVFoxy> given how
everything's fly by wire these days, I wouldn't be surprised if its
just a bit of software now
L143[08:20:25] <Althego> there is one
exception, a-10 has real manual control in case hydraulics
fail
L144[08:20:34] <Eddi|zuHause> ... beause
software is so flawless nowadays?
L145[08:20:42] <Althego> hahaha
L146[08:20:59] <Althego> like with the
7373 max or what is its name?
L147[08:21:18] <Eddi|zuHause> ... also, in
areas like this i imagine they charge premium prices for optional
software
L148[08:21:48] <Althego> or there was a
case with engine control software where you had to reboot the
aircraft to avoid to avoid reset and shotdown on all engines at the
same time
L149[08:22:05] <Althego> at least until
the patch was out
L150[08:22:32] <Althego> or when f22
computer rebooted when it crossed the international date line
L151[08:22:32] <Eddi|zuHause> there was a
thing where you had to reboot the plane every 49 days to avoid a
timer overflow
L152[08:22:38] <Althego> yes, taht
L153[08:23:15] <Eddi|zuHause> (if you
count up every millisecond, after 49 days the 32-bit integer will
overflow. is a fairly common bug)
L154[08:23:38] <Althego> similar happened
to radar system of an airport too :)
L155[08:23:54] <Althego> absolutely not
funny. that not only endangers one, but many planes
L156[08:24:55] <Eddi|zuHause> loads of
windows versions would just crash if it stayed on for 49 days
L157[08:25:09] <Althego> not even windows
2000 did that
L158[08:25:29] <Althego> maybe vista, i
dont know :)
L159[08:25:39] <Althego> i skipped vista
and 8
L161[08:26:26] <JVFoxy> ah... originally
they tried to model the control system, using thrust to direct the
flight of a plane. But it was with 'perfect models'. They've since
more properly modeled things and have had success with the control
system. The system is used, but its a bit of a rarity
L162[08:26:45] <Althego> 95 and 98, it was
20 years ago
L163[08:27:16] <Althego> today you would
obviously makethe control loop self tune
L164[08:27:39] <Althego> also because in
case of hydraulics fail you probbly have severe damage to the
fuselage too
L165[08:28:18] <Eddi|zuHause> Althego:
what makes you assume planes run on windows versions that are less
than 20 years old? :p
L166[08:28:31] <JVFoxy> I find it
interesting they used the AGC to fly the X-29's flyby wire. Using
it in DSV rescue ships makes a bit of sense. Its kind of close to
floating in space
L167[08:28:36] <Althego> some windows
version do run on planes
L168[08:28:44] <Althego> not in the main
area
L169[08:29:05] <Althego> like the scotty
satcom in ch-53 runs xp
L170[08:29:13] <Eddi|zuHause> there was a
problem in paris, i think, where they couldn't find anyone to
maintain their win 3.1 computers and had to shut down the
tower
L171[08:29:28] <Althego> lol 3.1
L172[08:29:46] <JVFoxy> video screens in
our trainstations uses windows... sometimes you'll see an execption
error and blue screen
L173[08:29:59] <Eddi|zuHause> ... and that
was like 2 years ago
L174[08:31:00] <JVFoxy> 3.11 but only
just.. school systems
L175[08:31:09] <Althego> ah good old
days
L176[08:31:14] <Althego> when you could
exit from windows
L177[08:31:19] <Althego> progman.ini
L178[08:31:20] <JVFoxy> otherwise.. was
just DOS and GWBASIC
L179[08:31:21] <Althego> winlogo.bmp
L181[08:32:39] <JVFoxy> Hmm.. so not Die
Hard 2..
L182[08:35:10] <JVFoxy> so.. can't find
someone who knows how to work windows 3.1...
L183[08:35:17] <Althego> i do :)
L184[08:35:32] <JVFoxy> isn't it like..
less complicated than Win10?
L185[08:35:37] <Althego> it cant be that
hard, it is not cobol
L186[08:35:55] <sandbox> how old would you
have to be to understand Windows 3.1?
L187[08:36:07] <Eddi|zuHause> in areas
like this you must also show a paper that you have been trained to
maintain this system
L188[08:36:17] <JVFoxy> don't think it has
to do with age.. more the 'its old, I won't touch it because I
don't wanna'. :\
L189[08:36:31] <Althego> there are books
on win 3.1 lol
L190[08:37:04] <Eddi|zuHause> ... i think
they had like 3 people who were qualified, but they were all
occupied, on holiday, sick, or whatever
L191[08:37:08] <Althego> we have clients
who still run debian wheezy
L192[08:37:29] <Althego> even getting rid
of 32 bit builds is far in the future
L193[08:37:42] <JVFoxy> granted, its tied
in with some airport systems. So, my guess is, probably some site
specifics going on too. Probably gotta do some familiarization that
aren't on the books
L194[08:37:59] <Althego> but that is true
for everything
L195[08:38:31] <Althego> if they are
afraid of computers they should just work in some other area
L196[08:39:04] <JVFoxy> ugh... job I had,
only person who knew how to run a machine. The other people had no
interest. So... guess who had problems finding time off?
L197[08:40:03] <Althego> hold up a piece
of paper, say diplomatic immunity, and walk away to your
holiday
L198[08:40:30] <JVFoxy> at this moment, I
can recall at least two times vacation was nulled. Called me a day
before my time off, "your coming back in tomorrow, got a big
order come in, need help" the other, 'can't give you two weeks
off, can't have you gone that long'. :\
L199[08:40:49] <Althego> that is
management failure
L200[08:41:09] <JVFoxy> that's putting it
lightly
L201[08:41:17] <Eddi|zuHause> ... there's
probably laws against that in europe
L202[08:41:24] <Althego> actually
L203[08:41:24] <JVFoxy> far more things
going on than just that..
L204[08:41:54] <Althego> some part of the
paid vacation days is controlled by the company
L205[08:42:09] <Althego> so they can say
you can or must have a vacation
L206[08:42:09] <JVFoxy> they were more
concerned with keeping customers, was willing to loose money over
it
L207[08:42:20] <Althego> *cant
L208[08:43:19] <JVFoxy> six months
advanced noticed.. check done that. cancelled your two weeks off
last minute jsut to fill an order that took 12 days straight. Oh
and by the way, sorry, you get only 2 day soff then back to the
grind for another year.
L209[08:44:25] <JVFoxy> anwyays, sorry, I
shouldn't gripe. too early in morning and wrong place here for
it
L210[08:45:10] <Althego> at one point i
was going with around 45 days of accumulated vacation days and 15
days of overtime (that i could zero by not working)
L211[08:45:27] <Althego> only
theoretically, never enough free time
L212[08:45:31] <Rokker> Althego:
A-10
L213[08:45:33] <Althego> to leave for that
long
L214[08:45:34] <Rokker> F-22
L215[08:45:37] <Althego> yes
L216[08:45:50] <Althego> but i didnt say
museum or aluminium :)
L217[08:46:28] <Rokker> the F-22 shutdown
incident still didnt result in a loss of hull
L218[08:46:34] <Althego> true
L219[08:46:37] <Althego> but that was not
the point
L220[08:46:52] <Althego> the point was
that everything is full of computers and the compputers are full of
bugs
L221[08:46:57] <JVFoxy> remember hte
story, pilot ejected, plane landed itself, in a field, engine still
running
L222[08:47:24] <Althego> still must have
been expensive. the ejections wrecks the cockpit
L223[08:47:43] <Rokker> the control
systems were on a separate system
L224[08:47:54] <Rokker> they were
unaffected by the dateline crashes
L226[08:48:58] <Rokker> JVFoxy: I'll give
u 3 guesses where that plane is today
L227[08:50:29] <Rokker> Althego: the skin
damage prolly cost more than the seat damage
L228[08:52:16] <JVFoxy> Rokker: trick
question?
L229[08:59:13] <Eddi|zuHause> JVFoxy: you
haven't been here for very long, right?
L230[08:59:59] <Althego> it must be at the
m-u-s-e-u-m
L231[09:00:06] <Rokker> JVFoxy: if I ask
you where a plane is there is only one answer
L232[09:00:28] <Rokker> Eddi|zuHause:
wanna help him out?
L233[09:00:32] <Althego> Upon its
retirement, it was presented to the National Museum of the United
States Air Force in August 1986, where it remains on
display.[1][5]
L234[09:00:33] <Eddi|zuHause> nah
L235[09:00:42] <Eddi|zuHause>
spoilers!
L236[09:00:50] <Althego> lo and behold
there it is
L237[09:02:30] <JVFoxy> Althego: I kind of
figured... why I wasn't really caring to answer
L238[09:07:07] <Rokker> anyways
L239[09:07:21] <Rokker> I bought tickets
to ride in a B-24
L240[09:12:07] <JVFoxy> Rokker: cool! Hope
it goes well
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L247[10:05:10] <Althego> yes tweeting
fish
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L260[12:32:39] <darsie> Will be grabbed
and shoved to Duna :).
L261[12:33:00] <Althego> luckily it will
be nearly empty when it gets to duna
L262[12:33:40] <darsie> It is an empty
hull. The body are two structural fuselages.
L263[12:33:59] <Althego> i hope your
wheels are far apart
L264[12:34:12] <darsie> Kerbin ground
stall speed is about 12 m/s :).
L265[12:34:36] <darsie> You can see them
at the middle of the second wing section.
L266[12:34:43] <Althego> how does it
behave at 25 km?
L267[12:34:52] <Althego> that is mroe like
on duna
L268[12:34:59] <darsie> I take off at 30
m/s.
L269[12:35:24] <darsie> On Kerbins
runway.
L270[12:35:38] <Althego> i am skeptical
about it
L271[12:35:41] <darsie> But that's with
the engine and tanks.
L272[12:35:46] <Althego> but it is qute
light
L273[12:37:10] <darsie> No heat issue with
Kerbin reentry.
L274[12:37:22] <darsie> If I pull up in
time.
L275[12:37:34] <Althego> heat is not an
issue on dun
L276[12:37:35] <Althego> a
L277[12:37:38] <darsie> no
L278[12:38:17] <Althego> back in the old
days before the heat
L279[12:38:31] <Althego> i made a dual
duna glider thing
L280[12:38:49] <Althego> dual because i
could have it symmetrical to have less issues with the wings during
ascent
L281[12:38:59] <Althego> also gave me 2
spots to land on duna
L282[12:39:32] <Althego> those thngs were
really lightweight, made of cubic octagonal struts
L283[12:39:58] <Althego> and 2 pairs of
wings
L284[12:40:02] <Althego> the atmosphere
qwas also denser
L285[12:40:23] <Althego> i built those 3
times because of the missing reroot feature
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L291[12:50:58] <GlassYuri> whaaa, imgur
jpegged it
L292[12:51:11] <Althego> hehe
L293[12:53:05] <GlassYuri> I'm still
amazed that I got GIMP to load the python script on the 5th attempt
and that all coordinates were correct except for the x axis being
swapped in each 4x4 block on the first try
L294[12:55:26] <GlassYuri> ...and I know
why the color interpolation doesn't work. can't get inbetween
colors by just averaging the 16-bit (R5G6B5) raw integer
value
L295[12:56:08] <GlassYuri> but the result
was too psychedelic not to share :P
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L307[14:20:34] <Althego> yes, scott with
the mouth intro again
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L319[15:05:08] ***
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L328[15:58:53] <darsie> And I'm running on
monopropellant.
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L342[17:00:29] <darsie> More parts
survived the second landing attempt :).
L343[17:00:45] <darsie> I tracked over two
hills.
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L349[17:10:58] <darsie> It's hard.
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L355[17:39:59] <darsie> very bouncy, that
ground
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L358[17:55:45] <darsie> I suspect the
simulation is faulty. The gear doesn't roll properly.
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L360[17:56:46] <darsie> Hmm, I could try
landing with the gear retracted.
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L362[17:57:19] *
darsie restarts KSP.
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L368[18:29:04] <darsie> I must land uphill
to be slower.
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L371[18:53:55] <darsie> First successful
landing. Not pretty, though.
L372[18:54:17] <darsie> Flew over the hill
instead of landing uphill.
L374[19:06:14] <umaxtu> absolutely
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L376[19:55:37] <hoglahoo> nice
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(Disorganized!~Diso@cpe-104-173-210-120.socal.res.rr.com) (Quit: My
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(Read error: Connection reset by peer)